Why do Brits criticise Trump’s government (like phone searches at border control) when a Reform government would likely do the same thing?

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Specialist-Driver550@reddit

Odd question. If the reform government do the same things, we’ll criticise them too.

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Final_Remains@reddit

How would it be 'voting for it'? It's appeared nowhere as in an idea here apart from your own imaginings. Reform have never mentioned doing this.

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coffeewalnut08@reddit (OP)

They stated they wish to get rid of the Human Rights Act and the ECHR, two main avenues people use to appeal against violations of rights and dignity at border control for example

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montymole123@reddit

Simple Reddit is not representative of the views of the British public

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coffeewalnut08@reddit (OP)

Public opinion suggests hostility towards Trump-How do Britons feel as Trump returns to the White House?

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montymole123@reddit

Also worth noting that Reddit is not a free speech platform. Anyone supporting Trump is liable to be banned. Reading Reddit comments is a terrible way to gauge public opinion.

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I expect some do but a lot don’t. People who would vote reform aren’t the kind of people who care about ideological consistency, and likely don’t really understand what they are voting for. Also, the political right is openly tribal. American Christian’s do not support the Taliban, although they believe identical things.

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coffeewalnut08@reddit (OP)

Good point. Reformers often criticise the British "left" for destroying the UK over culture and values, and criticise our foreign aid going abroad, but have openly said they will consider paying the Taliban.

So basically, under Reform, it sounds like the UK will still be sending foreign aid...to the Taliban.

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Specialist-Driver550@reddit

It’s even more logically inconsistent than that: reform claim to be worried about threats to British culture but are intent on replacing it with American culture, flying flags all over the place being an obvious example.

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ExoatmosphericKill@reddit

Do you guys just sit in here and make things up and tell eachother about them like they're fact to feel good?

Really an odd read.

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The_Dark_Vampire@reddit

American Christians do not support the Taliban, although they believe identical things.

I've honestly heard them argue its different.

For example the views that radical Muslims have about gays I've genuinely seem American Christians say the Muslims hate gays because of their backwards religion but then genuinely claim it's different when Christians hate gays because the Bible tells them to

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coffeewalnut08@reddit (OP)

I still feel like saying you support Trump would be a social taboo here tbh, but yes, I feel there is sympathy for Trump-style government here even if people don't wish to admit it

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lt4536@reddit

There are proud reform voters and gbeebies watchers, of course they won't have any qualms about supporting maga out loud

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mrshakeshaft@reddit

Plenty of people are happy to admit it

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Final_Remains@reddit

Because Brits are not a monolith and the people complaining about/ scared of Trump are not the same people supporting Reform.

It's easy on Reddit to get the impression that Brits all think the same way because of the overriding left wing bias here, but we really do not. This platform really is just an amplifier for a minority voice

There is no hypocrisy.

Anyhow, the removal of the UK from the ECHR and a drafting of a new UK bill of human rights that serves the people of the country does not even mean phones searches at the border imposed by the UK government. In fact, if that did happen it would be far more likely to come from the EU side.

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coffeewalnut08@reddit (OP)

The Human Rights Act and ECHR already provide the world’s best package of human rights there is. Why does a new one need to be drafted?

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Final_Remains@reddit

The UK requires a national bill of human rights that can't be weaponised against it by foreign interests and and one that exists to serve this country's people.

We are more than capable of drafting our own and we do not require European supervision like naughty children.

You can downvote me all you like, but are you even a UK national?

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coffeewalnut08@reddit (OP)

Why does the UK need to draft a new one if the existing legislation is comprehensive and full?

Which right outlines in the Human Rights Act and ECHR would you like to surrender to Farage, and who says Farage will return them to you?

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tb5841@reddit

Based on recent polls, Reform would get votes from about 30% of voters. Since only 60% of voting age adults actually vote, that's about 18% of adults.

Although they might win in 2029, Reform are still disliked by most of the population.

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Final_Remains@reddit

I mean, now extend that same maths to Labour, let alone the Tories... Every party is disliked by most of the population/

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coffeewalnut08@reddit (OP)

Fair enough

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AlunWH@reddit

Thanks to our outdated voting system, Reform are unpopular, utterly unrepresentative of most people, and quite likely to win the next election without anything approaching the greatest percentage of votes.

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Open-Difference5534@reddit

"...arbitrary power to search people’s phones as what happens currently at America’s border control..."

There is another question on a sub about this, asking if this actually happens, apparently it does not.

There is an important difference between the UK & USA, most, if not all, Trump's changes were issued from the Oval Office by 'executive order', the British Prime Minister simply does not have that power. The monarch does not have that power either, in the UK such powers require an act of Parliament.

While I don't agree with him, Farage has stated he Reform's policy is scrap the UK’s Human Rights Act and remove the powers of the ECHR over the UK, also that he would seek to replace it with a "British Bill of Rights" applying only to UK citizens and legal residents, which was also proposed by some Tories.

I don't defend Farage, but he does not seek to scrap all the rights of UK citizens as you suggest.

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coffeewalnut08@reddit (OP)

What would that rights bill look like? The ECHR and Human Rights Act are already good packages of rights, they don’t need reform

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wtf_idk_maybecheese@reddit

Reform are not as popular as you are led to believe, especially among those of us articulate enough to discuss politics on reddit.

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EconomicsPotential84@reddit

You're making the assumption that the same people criticising Trump are the same ones supporting Reform. There's no hypocrisy going on, a lot of us think both Reform and Trump are mega cunts.

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Only_Tip9560@reddit

Perhaps you need to draw a Venn diagram of the Brits that are complaining about Trump and reform voters (hint: it will be two unconnected circles).

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coffeewalnut08@reddit (OP)

It would be interesting to do so, I honestly feel like there will be people in the overlap section.

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GooseyDuckDuck@reddit

Fuck all overlap, the same twats that supper Trump are those who fall for our own grifter.

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drquakers@reddit

There are certainly enough idiotic reform voters who believe that draconian rules should be applied to others but not themselves.

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coffeewalnut08@reddit (OP)

I struggle to understand why they believe they have immunity to those draconian laws.

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Independent-Ad-3385@reddit

I struggle to understand why anyone would vote reform but here we are

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drquakers@reddit

Jokes aside, there is a large number of people in Britain who have had a terrible \~20 years since 2008. They have seen prices get higher while their wages did not, they have seen quality of life indicators getting worse, they have seen their healthcare provision get worse. If one even goes back 40 years, while the middle class got a great boon in the 90's in the UK the working class did not see a commensurate improvement, but when the crash happened in 2008 it fell just as hard on the working class as the middle class.

So there are a lot of people who are angry and scared and looking for someone to blame. And then you have the right wing media who is more than happy to point to immigrants as an "other" for them to blame, and it is intoxicatingly easy. There are immigrants who break the law and are terrible people (of course there are, immigrants are people just like natives here, there are going to be shit heads) and it is far easier to whip up fury when a person that doesn't quite look or act like you does something terrible. Especially if you can also point to a person that looks a bit like that other person who is somehow doing really well, clearly there must be something nefarious happening here. This is the same playbook the Nazis used against the Jews in the 30's, it is the same playbook that the right wing in the USA used throughout the last century to keep poor whites, blacks and latinos at each others throats.

The big problem is that blaming immigrants is easy, actually dealing with the real problems (inequality and climate change) is really, really hard. People have every right to be angry. The problem is the anger is being focussed in the wrong place, and there are bad actors out there who want that to continue.

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Sean_13@reddit

It's like the "they came for" poem all over again. I don't understand that thinking but it seems to be a common one. Like convincing people, women will be safer creating a witch hunt against trans people.

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drquakers@reddit

Look at all of the Brexit voters who didn't realise that voting to revoke the ability of EU citizens to come to the UK would also revoke their ability to live part of the year in their summer homes in Spain / France.

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TheNewHobbes@reddit

Authoritarianism relies on having a group the law protects but doesn't bind, and a group the law binds but doesn't protect.

Reform voters all believe they are in the first group. If they realised they were in the second they wouldn't be Reform voters.

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Greatgrowler@reddit

For it to be a Venn diagram the circles would need to overlap to show that, however remote, there is a possibility of people belonging to both categories. You are describing a Euler diagram. A Euler diagram could have two circles, one labelled fun at parties and the other boring pedants. You need not tell me where I belong.

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Dans77b@reddit

I don't think that's true, I read about some polling that suggests Reform voters do not support Trump.

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EmergencyEntrance28@reddit

There are relatively sensible voters, who think Trump's a cunt, Farage is a cunt and anyone who votes for Reform is at best, an idiot.

There are a portion of Reform voters who also are likely a large portion of the small % of Brits who like Trump. Those are basically just your bog-standard racists - not "good" in any meaningful way, but at least consistent within their terrible morals.

And then there's the weird overlap of people who have indicated they like Reform (note, that's not necessarily the same as actually putting an X in the Reform box when it comes down to polling day) but dislike Trump.

Charitably, we can assume those people haven't put the necessary thought into it to see the parallels and hypocrisy in supporting one but not the other. Politics exists more in soundbites and media than in the reality of manifestos and what laws actually say. Many people who would happily say Reform if asked in an opinion poll simply don't understand what the HRA and ECHR do, the just accept Farage's bleating about them being bad and don't put the thought into why he says that, or what other consequences could arise.

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wlondonmatt@reddit

Reform is inconsistently leading in opinion polls their views do not represent the majority of Brits .

Phone searches at the border have existed since George Bush the difference now is you would only get banned from entering for having terrorist or child abuse material on your phone . Now you can get arrested and banned from entering for having a JD Vance meme on your phone.

The UK civil service is a lot less politicised for example my boss is ultimately Sadiq khan. He however cannot fire me if I vote for the conservative party at the next election

Likewise the electorial commissions in the US know people's political party affiliation as they are responsible for administering primaries. In the UK political party affiliation is confidential. As the parties manage their own primaries. Making it less likely for a government to weaponise this data

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DarkAngelAz@reddit

Because it would be wrong and is wrong

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kliq-klaq-@reddit

So the answer is either that they are different people or the special secret answer that underpins the whole of political science: people are contradictory and have no coherent ideological position on things.

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jonny-p@reddit

Quite possibly because (contrary to the impression you might get from much of our mainstream media) we don’t have a reform government. They have a handful of MPs who don’t actually do anything. If people are stupid enough to actually elect Farage and his merry band of racist grifters then and we then have to suffer through their incompetence and poorly conceived policies, I’ve no doubt they will come in for more criticism than they already do.

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LionLucy@reddit

I agree that there are definitely Reform voters who criticise Trump and honestly I think it’s just Trump’s very cartoonishly vulgar vibe. He’s orange and he paints everything gold etc. I think people many reform voters would support him if he was more “respectable”

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coffeewalnut08@reddit (OP)

Possibly

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Pizzagoessplat@reddit

Because the majority wouldn't vote reform

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Bownzinho@reddit

You seem to be under the impression that every Brit thinks exactly the same. Many of us criticise both.

Trump is a cunt, Farage is a cunt who is the only bloke who can say he is uglier than Lewis Capaldi.

See?

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Neat_Significance256@reddit

Re ugly : Michael Gove vs Nigel Farridge is a close run race for ugliest

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Alarmed-Secretary-39@reddit

Opinion Polls don't translate to Governments.

We'll worry about it if the current electoral system collapses and somehow, Reform get in. The chances of this happened are low. At the moment they're more likely to get in by getting 300 or so to cross the floor

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The_Dark_Vampire@reddit

Honestly I'd say Reform supporters are basically the British branch of MAGA and they like Trump to that's why they don't care that Nigel has his lips firmly planted on Trumps arse in their eyes its a honour that Trump has allowed Nigel to grace his posterior with his lips

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Status_General_1931@reddit

Phone searches at borders are standard in most countries! New Zealand, Australia and many other countries do it as standard if they are doing a deeper inspection

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slackingindepth3@reddit

We don’t have a reform gov? We have a labour Gov and America has a MAGA Gov

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Historical_Pin2806@reddit

A lot of Brits don't support Farage or Reform and can see through the theatrics.

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iata_suckit@reddit

The police have recently arrested people for the following in the UK: - Saying a trans woman is a man - Calling someone a plonker - Saying they like bacon sandwiches - Giving a police officer "evils"

Yet this is where you think the hypocrisy exists? Interesting 🤔

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digyerownhole@reddit

rAskABritAboutDevisivePolitics

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That_Northern_bloke@reddit

I think you mean r/ThinlyVieledAttemptAtRacsismAndShitstirring

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Ashamed_North348@reddit

The Australian border force does the same with phones, have you seen the yanks kicking off there, and a Brit did it too! They weren’t happy!

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coffeewalnut08@reddit (OP)

It seems they don't like THEIR phones being searched, but if it's the "correct" group of people having their phones searched (like immigrants), they support it. Same for any other draconian law or practice.

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herwiththepurplehair@reddit

Because Reform isn’t in power, nor do I think it ever will be, but Trump is over there actually carrying out his moronic plans because a large swathe of America is too stupid and too gullible to realise what they did.

I mean, ex-Marine running for Congress, reports a large number of what she believes are illegals, building a car plant in Georgia. Turns out they were sent there by Hyundai, are Korean nationals on work visas and were going to be training up to 9,000 employees once the plant was constructed. All the Koreans have been sent home, it’s likely the plant will be scrapped and this is now a diplomatic crisis. All because of some dumb blonde MAGA halfwit who thinks every non-American is an illegal immigrant.

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Sea_Appointment8408@reddit

People that vote Reform have no understanding of politics. They only care about a singular issue: their hatred of foreigners.

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Mobile_Falcon8639@reddit

Probably because the kind of people who would vote reform only hear the message that Reform will stop the boats and kick out immigrants. That's all they hear, and all they're interested in. They don't read the small print

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Texasscot56@reddit

Your entire premise is logically flawed.

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coffeewalnut08@reddit (OP)

Why?

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HardlyAnyGravitas@reddit

The people who criticise Trump do not support Reform.

The people who support Reform don not criticise Trump.

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SurgicalSlinky2020@reddit

Ahh, it's because those people who are both critical of Trunp and supportive of Farage are just too stupid to realise they're the same thing. Trump's just demented, so Farage appears more intelligent, sometimes.

But they're both the se. They both do what's best for their bank accounts and Daddy Putin

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coffeewalnut08@reddit (OP)

I also find it odd that Farage has missed the first days of Parliament's return from recess to have talks in America, complaining about foreign interference in British politics but then travelling to a foreign country 4000 miles away to bring their influence here.

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BigJDizzleMaNizzles@reddit

This whole Reform thing is ridiculous..

They may get 50 seats at the next election but they're not a serious choice. They go for the low hanging fruit, stop migrants, scrap the congestion charge, get rid of traffic wardens - that kind of nonsense.

When it comes to it, it's Tory or Labour. Reform aren't going to form a government any more than I am. Not that I think Tory or Labour are any good either but they're just the status quo. It's effectively arguing for a 3rd party in the US. Never gonna happen.

I'm going to spoil my ballot at the next election in protest and would urge others to do the same.

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DivePotato@reddit

Not the same people.

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Bownzinho@reddit

This cannot be stressed enough.

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sbaldrick33@reddit

Because the Brits who criticise Trump's government and the Brits who want a Reform government aren't the same Brits.

Reform supporters are our version of MAGAts; nastky little thugs, using "legitimate concerns" as figleaves for their bigotry. In a different time, they'd have been BNP or National Front or BUF. Not worth the steam off one's piss.

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Routine-Cicada-4949@reddit

Stupid post of the day award.........

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coffeewalnut08@reddit (OP)

Why?

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ozaz1@reddit

How are people reconciling this hypocrisy?

70% of people have no need to reconcile it. Reform has 30% support in opinion polls.

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misbehavinator@reddit

Because he's telling them the same shit Trump told his gullible followers.

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MortimerDongle@reddit

If a Reform voter is criticizing Trump they're probably just ignorant of the actual policies they're supporting.

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2c0@reddit

We also criticise Reform. I'd rather not have either.

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Helpful-Juggernaut33@reddit

The Extremist Reform are just as deranged and linked to Pedo's & corruption as Trump and his exremeist right wing gov.

Dickhead and evil people are doing evil dickhead things. and that slimey evil lying arse crawling snide frog faced shit eating twat Farrage is the worst of them all. At least Trump is doing his own thing (as bad as it is) Farage is just the effluent left over after trump's nappy is changed.

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thefooleryoftom@reddit

Because what our government doing does not mean it meets with approval from its population. Just as we know not every single American stands by Trump and what he does - we don’t always support our government.