Why do some English people not understand that Ireland is the name of the Irish state?
Posted by Some-Air1274@reddit | AskABrit | View on Reddit | 70 comments
I have lived in London and general southern England for a 7 years.
I’m from Northern Ireland and have no links or attachments to do with the ROI. I’m in England more than there.
When I meet people here, some will understand that Northern Ireland is a separate jurisdiction but others cannot seem to grasp it. I continually refer to my home place as Northern Ireland.
And then they talk about me going home to Ireland etc.
I realise that Ireland is also the name for the island, but for most of us we are aware that it’s also the name of the Irish state.
So. When someone says that I am from Ireland that’s what I think.
It’s weird because they’re trying to assign me to a country that I didn’t grow up in and I don’t understand why they can’t understand that? It’s quite simple.
MidlandPark@reddit
Because we're not taught on it. Most probably couldn't name more than two places in NI, let alone tell you about Ireland, or even the Taoiseach of Ireland
Some-Air1274@reddit (OP)
Ok but why is it so hard to understand that NI and Ireland are two separate jurisdictions just like France and Italy are two separate jurisdictions?
The Irish government has no legislation authority or reigns of power in Northern Ireland, whatsoever.
MidlandPark@reddit
I'm guessing here, but probably because they just hear 'northern' and think 'Northern Ireland' is like Northern England.
Some years ago, in a public sector job btw, I had colleagues ask me how do I know who the FM of NI was - it was Foster at the time, I was speechless. This was just after the mess of Brexit as well.
Honestly, so many people in England know so little about other home nations, let alone our closest neighbours around us, yet can tell you 30 states in America. They get all their political knowledge from rags with the reading age of 7.
Some-Air1274@reddit (OP)
It’s weird I suppose because there’s such a concrete difference to me. Like when I drive over the border, on my car it says “information for Ireland”, the road phone networks change, the currency changes and the speed units change. So it’s a tangible difference, that’s why I don’t understand why it’s such a difficult concept for them to grasp.
I suppose your point about Northern England makes sense.
MidlandPark@reddit
They probably have also never been across the water to NI either. I know people who travel to Scotland and Wales all the time, I personally can't say I know anyone who goes NI. But I know plenty who go to Ireland and the European mainland.
Some-Air1274@reddit (OP)
There’s loads of English people in Ni
MidlandPark@reddit
Yeah, but there's 56m people in England, the numbers in NI is tiny in comparison. London is more than the population of NI & Scotland combined
Panceltic@reddit
Why do you think people care about jurisdictions? They mean Ireland the island, that’s all there is to it.
Some-Air1274@reddit (OP)
Because I don’t understand why they don’t hear me saying Northern Ireland.
I literally have nothing to do with the south at all.
munday97@reddit
For the same reason people talk about Korea (generally meaning south) when there's 2 Koreas.
You're right there's a difference between the island of Ireland and the state of Ireland which excludes northern Ireland but I think it's out of ignorance rather than malice.
ratty_89@reddit
Apathy as much as ignorance. I know the difference, I just don't care.
Normalscottishperson@reddit
Mate it’s been explained to you several times already.
Panceltic@reddit
They don’t mean the South …
Mr_SunnyBones@reddit
Yeah , look I'm from Ireland , and most Brits I've met are lovely, but a lot of them are genuinely confused about Ireland ( the Republic)being a totally seperate,independent country . I think its partially the fact that so many Irish people are in UK media etc , that we're not thougt of as 'foreign ' and also confusion about Northern Ireland . I think this is the reason a lot of Brexit voters thought that Calais would be the only EU' boarder ' to be sorted . And afterwards when anyone brought up the NI boarder there was just [ shocked pikachu face]
MidlandPark@reddit
I mean yeah, no one really considers Ireland or Irish people as 'foreign'. It's a strange one because even with the madness of the Troubles, in the island of GB, socially, it's like it never happened (that's great btw).
The Irish border problem only really being mentioned after the vote, should've given the most ardent Unionists a bit of a reality check. Let alone the fact Stormont collapsed and GB just got on with it. In other countries, such a mess would've bought the entire central government down.
Some-Air1274@reddit (OP)
We all see this but this doesn’t make me want to vote for a United Ireland. I don’t make my political decisions around what English people think.
MidlandPark@reddit
I wasn't suggesting that, but more of the point that the government doesn't care and that maybe something should be done on that to make it more equal. United Ireland or Kingdom is your guys choice to make, but I'd be lying if I said I understand the strongest of unionism.
fruity_brown_sauce@reddit
But if you asked a Catholic from Derry they would say that they are from Ireland wouldn't they?
Some-Air1274@reddit (OP)
Yeah they would, but it’s a literal different jurisdiction.
When I’m having a conversation about “Northern Ireland” and they follow it with “Ireland”, I’m thinking 🤦♂️
fruity_brown_sauce@reddit
You're from Northern Ireland so I doubt you need a history lesson, but many people in the Republic of Ireland see Northern Ireland as territory that is under British occupation, to my knowledge.
Some-Air1274@reddit (OP)
And? The official name is Northern Ireland. That’s it
pcor@reddit
I grew up in a fairly apolitical but culturally very much unionist household in NI and had that initial reaction when I first moved to England for uni and people would ask me about Ireland. It didn’t take me long to realise that if my supposed “Britishness” wasn’t appreciated by the people of Great Britain itself, and conclude that maybe they were onto something! They knew almost about Northern Ireland and cared even less. You’re just going to have to put up with that.
Some-Air1274@reddit (OP)
I do put up with it, but it doesn’t mean they’re right. I grew up in NI and genuinely have very little to do with Ireland, it’s a separate jurisdiction and that difference is really obvious when you cross the border.
pcor@reddit
You grew up on the island of Ireland, in a country which shared a jurisdiction with the counties that now constitute the Republic into the 20th century, and where even the most ardent unionists identified as Irish until the recent past. You have plenty to do with Ireland, in one sense or another.
Some-Air1274@reddit (OP)
Nope. I’m not part of the Irish system.
PM_ME_BUTTERED_SOSIJ@reddit
Meh, I get bored of what language I need to use depending on which affiliation people from the 6 counties have.
This whole thing about the British Isles now being offensive, despite it being a geographical term that long predates any of the nations involved, is a perfect example.
Some-Air1274@reddit (OP)
Most people are fine with Northern Ireland.
PM_ME_BUTTERED_SOSIJ@reddit
And many nationalists will refuse and say North of Ireland
You can all call things what you want, the truth is 98% of people in the mainland UK don't care
Some-Air1274@reddit (OP)
They may not care, that doesn’t mean they’re right.
PM_ME_BUTTERED_SOSIJ@reddit
OK
I say Turkey not Türkiye
I say Ivory Coast not Cote DIvoire.
I'm probably wrong on both counts.
There was a thread on one of the Irish subs recently about how one of them was posting a package back home to Cavan or Monaghan or something, and the post office worker was putting the address on and put "Southern Ireland". Which is common here for the Irish state, even though not in any way technically correct, because it's an antonym of "Northern Ireland"
Obviously some poor postal worker that was just trying to do her job offended them all tremendously, and their theory was it was the subjugation of the British state in full flow.
It's just very tiresome, and literally nobody here really gives a shit enough to take sides in the whole thing. If we get it wrong and it offends you - soz
Mental_Body_5496@reddit
Because it isnt really taught in schools as it will surely piss off someone whatever is taught.
My kids know a little bit about the history of NI but probably not enough although they know thst their auntie was nearly killed by an IRA bomb as a student in London as it came up when we were talking about 7/7 attack when I was nearly killed by a al qaida terrorists.
Most media is around the aggressive behaviour of politicians maybe puts people off maybe.
Some-Air1274@reddit (OP)
But it’s not offensive to just tell people what NI is and inform them of the governance and structure.
Mental_Body_5496@reddit
The vast majority (i suspect)of British people know nothing about NI, dont give it a second thought and wouldn't care if Ireland took it over tomorrow.
There are lots of reasons for this.
Some-Air1274@reddit (OP)
But they, of course know about Gibraltar
Mental_Body_5496@reddit
No i don't think the average Brit really knows anything about Gibraltar other than the aggressive monkeys. I mean I don't really understand 🤷 same with the Falklands and Hong Kong and The Channel Islands and The Isle of Man and Tristan du Cunha etc.
SufficientPiano5492@reddit
You've answered your own question. they are refering to the block of land, not the governing body. You can live in Ireland or the republic of Ireland/northern Ireland simultaneously. In the same way you can live in Europe, Britain and England simultaneously. Yes it's is probably on the level of Americans referring to Europe without defining whether they are talking about Monaco or Poland but whilst inaccurate it is not wrong.
Some-Air1274@reddit (OP)
For me, I don’t understand why they continue to say Ireland after I have repeatedly said Northern Ireland. It comes across as a “I am better than you and I don’t recognise the distinction”.
Similar-Pear7329@reddit
Northern Ireland is in Ireland so they’re not wrong. It’s like an American asking you when you’re going back home to Europe.
Some-Air1274@reddit (OP)
But I’m saying Northern Ireland to them.
Panceltic@reddit
And they are probably thinking “why are they insisting on this “northern” all the time”, like saying “north west lincolnshire” or sth.
You may not like it, but that’s how it is. People in England know fuck all about NI.
Some-Air1274@reddit (OP)
It’s weird sorry.
Panceltic@reddit
It is what it is mate.
I am from Slovenia, and the amount of times I’ve had Slovakia thrown at me is counted in the hundreds. You just need to accept that everyone’s realities are different, and what is important to you might be of zero relevance to somebody else.
Similar-Pear7329@reddit
So what? They’re still correct. It’s a weird thing to get hung up about.
Some-Air1274@reddit (OP)
It’s hardly weird it’s a different country.
ValidGarry@reddit
It's a small island to the left of mainland UK. A lot of people don't think about what happens in the next town, never mind the next door island. Most won't know much about their own history, never mind yours.
Purlz1st@reddit
I would say Northern Ireland. I once spent some time in Belfast, and the place and people were lovely.
Some-Air1274@reddit (OP)
Yes some people do. But with other people, it seems to go in one year and out the other.
jlangue@reddit
I worked with a posh southern English woman and an Irish woman. And the posh woman asked her if she was from Northern Ireland or southern Ireland? The Irish woman said, western Ireland. We laughed a bit. She wasn’t joking and didn’t fully understand the nature of the awkward question.
Some-Air1274@reddit (OP)
😂
Jack-Rabbit-002@reddit
Can't I have Though I will say I've grown up with quite a few people from NI and they've always made the distinction or have just named the place there from like Belfast or Bangor And I'd generally just say that like I would anyone from any other location in the UK
Though I am from Brum most people in England or even the UK would be happy to disown us 😀
Ojohnnydee222@reddit
"that's what I think they are referring to".
Ok then. Either you get into a discussion there and then to clarify, which is tricky bc nearly all of the terms we use to refer to parts of these islands are ambiguous like "the country of Ireland" or "the island of Ireland"... or you accept the ambiguity of the word 'Ireland', process it to mean what YOU also mean by it, and move on. Knowing that most English people don't give a monkey's about it, either way.
Some-Air1274@reddit (OP)
I just sit there and say Northern Ireland. I don’t make a fuss, but I’m not going to stop saying it.
It’s where I’m from and where I grew up, I’m not going to change who I am or pretend to have this strong link to the south that I don’t have.
SaltEOnyxxu@reddit
I can call it northern island mcislandy face but that's as far as I'll go
exxp1orer74@reddit
Ireland is a geographical entity not a country. If I wanted to distinguish them I’d say ‘the republic’ or Northern Ireland. However, as well as some obvious differences, I assume there are some commonalities between all people living in Ireland and I might not always want to distinguish. I mean,… you all dance with leprechauns and say ‘top of the day to you’ and ‘to be sure to sure’ don’t ya? 😉😂
CuriousThylacine@reddit
Ireland is definitely also a country.
Routine-Cicada-4949@reddit
I have a similar situation here in California.
People will ask me "Are you British/a Brit?"
And I'll reply "No, I'm a Londoner"
& then they get really confused.
p.s. this isn't actually true. Everybody thinks I'm Australian. They even argue with me.
Some-Air1274@reddit (OP)
😂
CuriousThylacine@reddit
You've made a pretty big assumption there.
Own_Ask4192@reddit
Not saying it’s right but most English people use the term “Ireland” as referring to the whole island, the “Republic of Ireland” as the country (with Ireland being used for short) and “Northern Ireland” only used if the context requires it to specifically be separated from the rest. Like “City of London” is only used when specifically referring to the square mile.
jake_burger@reddit
Maybe they just mean the island of Ireland?
It’s factually correct to ask when you are going back to Ireland (island).
But it would be incorrect to ask when you are going back to Ireland (nation).
I_ALWAYS_UPVOTE_CATS@reddit
Think of how dumb the average person is. Now remember that half of people are dumber than that.
Inucroft@reddit
It is not called Ireland.
It is called, Republic of Ireland or Érie
radikoolaid@reddit
Article 4 of the Constitution of Ireland states "The name of the State is Éire, or, in the English language, Ireland."
The Republic of Ireland is a description used for disambiguation. The name of the country is Ireland.
Own_Ask4192@reddit
The Irish constitution also falsely claimed the entire island as its own territory until recently didn’t it? And these are the same that will object to the use of the well-established geographical term “British Isles”.
Panceltic@reddit
The official name is Ireland / Éire.
The official “description of the state” is Republic of Ireland / Poblacht na hÉireann.
MidlandPark@reddit
The official name is Ireland
Some-Air1274@reddit (OP)
No, it is genuinely called Ireland: https://dfa.ie/irish-embassy/russia/our-role/about-ireland/
jake_burger@reddit
Isn’t Northern Ireland on an island called Ireland?
Jussme333@reddit
Some people are just idiots man.
qualityvote2@reddit
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