What’s the publicly funded school system like in London?
Posted by Specific-Hospital-53@reddit | AskABrit | View on Reddit | 76 comments
My family is considering a move from Toronto Canada to London for my husband’s work (banking). We have 2 kids aged 12 and 10. What is the publicly funded school system like? Is this something that most kids send their kids to or is it like the US where many kids go to private school? We have private schools here in Canada but our public schools are really strong so for the most part, if you live in a good neighbourhood, the public schools are also very good. I’m trying to understand if this is an extra cost we need to consider or if I should just focus on neighbourhood and assume the local schools will be a good option.
ODFoxtrotOscar@reddit
London schools aren’t that bad and some are very good
There is probably a much higher proportion in London in private schools than the national average, but the majority will be in state schools
You cannot choose a school - you apply indicating your preferences. You’ll be allocated the one highest up your preference lust that can offer a place.
Your 10yo might need to go in to the main allocation round for Year 7 (the first year of secondary school for pupils aged 11 at the start of the school year, beginning of September) if you arrive before then (apply by 31 October the year before entry), your elder child (and possibly your 10 year old, depending on how the dates fall) will need to apply for an ad hoc place (usually called an in-year application)
You cannot apply until you have a UK address, and some borough councils will only process an application once you have arrived in the country.
Specific-Hospital-53@reddit (OP)
This info is great. Much appreciated!
TheRemanence@reddit
Just to build on this comment... there are many excellent state schools however...
the best schools will be over subscribed and can be trickier to get into. We have selective state funded schools (many in north london) that are truly excellent but hard to get into. The risk is coming over with kids at this age and then applying you may be at a disadvantage. When my husband moved to the UK when he was 10 they put him in a private school for this reason. You can usually apply from abroad.
there will be an adjustment period for your kids and the smaller class sizes may help with that and if they need to catch up on anything specific to the uk curriculum (not more advanced just I'm sure there are differences.)
- private schools in london are some of the best in the world so while the state schools are good, some of the private schools are exceptional.
Essentially the previous comment is right that plenty of state schools in london are good. However, if you can afford it, there are reasons private schools might be better in this instance.
What might be more important is where you live. Will you actually be in london london or in greater london or a commuter town in the home counties?
mrbullettuk@reddit
State schools absolutely do stream kids by ability in y7/8/9 especially for Maths and English. Other subjects not so much.
TheRemanence@reddit
It's only maths and english in comprehensives which is the issue. Grammar schools are different. Teaching someone physics or history when their classmates are at a totally different level of maths or English is incredibly hard for teachers and students. Private schools are usually selective AND also put students in sets so they can be given specific attention. There are complex reasons for this which are both political and cost related.
I don't think this is any different in Canada but we're comparing publicly funded and private london schools. It's shitty we can't do this for all kids tbh.
Dic_Penderyn@reddit
They used to when I went to school in the 60's and 70's. We were given a sort of IQ test in the last year of primary school, and then when we went to the comprehensive we were put into one of 4 sets, depending on ability.
TheRemanence@reddit
Yes they changed it. It was part of the move away from the grammar and secondary modern system. It was politically deemed unfair to put people into buckets at this age. Imho as long as there is a level of flexibility to move people around if needed, greater streaming benefits children at all levels. My understanding is there have been some moves back and obviously maths and english are in sets. I think academies have more flexibility. (Source is my sister and brother in law that work at the department of education. She was also a maths teacher in london comprehensives and a school governor.)
Mammoth-Difference48@reddit
Also worth noting the different age bands - the state school system uses Primary (to 11) and Secondary (11 onwards) but the private system is pre-prep, prep etc and the ages are different.
TheRemanence@reddit
That varies greatly by the private school and is not the case in all. Where there is a difference tends to be older public schools that admit boys e.g. Eton, Harrow that start at year 9. In terms of London schools, boys schools such as Westminster, Dulwich, Kings have both 11+ and 13+ entry (some going into the older prep and then transitioning but year 7 joining very common). Elite girls only schools such as St Pauls and City of London have 11+ entry. Since OP's children are 10 and 12, by the time they go to a UK school they will both be senior school age and most London schools would admit them directly into year 7 and year 9.
Mammoth-Difference48@reddit
True - they won’t be looking at the older public schools in this case anyway I imagine
Specific-Hospital-53@reddit (OP)
Lots to think about. Really appreciate understanding the nuance of secondary school vs primary school. It definitely sounds like private school has a lot of advantages.
Acceptable_Bunch_586@reddit
Some state schools also have gifted and talented streams where these kids are given stuff that will challenge them if the usual streams aren’t sufficient
TheRemanence@reddit
It does but i am also certain you will find a good education for your kids without it so don't panic too much. Lots of good schools as well as better schools.
Glad i was helpful. Good luck with your move
colmuacuinn@reddit
There are also state funded Catholic school which will have wider geographical catchment areas if you happen to be of that persuasion. Possibly relevant to some other religious denominations too, but to nowhere near the same extent.
mrbullettuk@reddit
Church of England state funded is more common than Catholic.
Although the catchment (area you can live in and still apply) is larger the rules for qualification tend to be stricter and include being on the church electoral role for x years as a primary category. You can check the qualification criteria on each schools website.
Annabelle_Sugarsweet@reddit
There are also religious state schools, so the Catholic ones in London are usually really good, but only accept 10% non Catholics.
Shoddy-Reply-7217@reddit
You'll be very lucky if you get into a good state (publicly funded) school, especially at secondary level age 11+).
The good ones are very over-subscribed, and even though plenty of the others are perfectly OK, they do tend to suffer from the fact that the people who can afford it tend to send their kids private so the layer of parents that would otherwise help to fundraise/demand that the school standards are kept up are often elsewhere.
We moved out of London and 50 miles away to a commuter suburb and spent an extra £150,000 on our house to be close to a good (free) state school from age 4-18. We figured we'd have spent that on private schooling anyway long term if we'd stayed, and this way we got the benefit of a stable community rather than our child only knowing posh people and not necessarily their immediate neighbours.
It's not fair and IMHO the existence of the private school system is one of the things that is wrong about society.
Mammoth-Difference48@reddit
This is exactly the point I made elsewhere. The “move out and buy the house” route is the way I would have gone if I had had kids.
Hate the unfair ess of the system in this country.
Shoddy-Reply-7217@reddit
Agreed.
The Finnish have it better (and score the best worldwide) by abolishing the private school sector - that way even the rich parents and politicians have the incentive to make sure that every state school is good.
Mammoth-Difference48@reddit
If I had my way......!
edison9696@reddit
This is a bit of an exaggeration isn't it? London has the best school results of any region in Britain. Sure, it's competitive but there are plenty of 'good' schools in London and lots of excellent one.
London schools have been steadily improving for over 20 years and in the last five years, they are also improving at a faster rate than anywhere else by some measures.
Shoddy-Reply-7217@reddit
It's the competition that's the problem. It's pointless having a few brilliant schools if the vast majority of people can't get into one - the only vaguely decent one near where we lived had 12 applications for every place.
Specific-Hospital-53@reddit (OP)
Really appreciate your perspective. Lots to think about. Thank you!
ODFoxtrotOscar@reddit
Set alongside the above that people are always moving in and out of London, do places can come up, even at the more sought after schools
SirGuestWho@reddit
And even with the state schools you get selective schools that are generally better but don't cost any extra.
Specific-Hospital-53@reddit (OP)
So complicated!
montymole123@reddit
Yes look for grammar schools which are state funded but selective (must pass an exam to enter)
Specific-Hospital-53@reddit (OP)
The concept that a student would be denied entry to a state funded school is mind boggling to me. Where do kids go who struggle in school?
Mammoth-Difference48@reddit
They still go to school. Everyone gets a place at school. But if a school is selective (depends on the area) and the kid doesn’t pass they will get sent to another school. The comprehensive system was supposed to do away with selection entirely but it failed.
montymole123@reddit
To Comprehensive schools which are not selective. Most state schools are Comprehensive so there's always an option if you fail the 11 plus test. Grammar schools are now very rare as many politicians feel the same way you do despite often being educated in grammar schools themselves! Schools are very political in the UK and politicians often interfere on ideological grounds. (And to hell with the kids!) The latest class war ploy has been to charge VAT on school fees.
SnooDonuts6494@reddit
The public schools are fine. Check the Ofsted reports on any specific one.
Private schools are stupidly expensive. Eton is about £60,000 per year.
Mammoth-Difference48@reddit
Please don’t comment when you don’t know the subject.
Public schools in the UK are the elite old boys’ schools: Eton, Harrow, Westminster, Rugby etc. The phrase comes from a small number of schools given independence from the Crown. There were originally only a handful of boys’ schools but the term is now wider, encompassing some elite girls’ and co-eds. They are expensive, competitive and should never be confued with schools which are open to anyone. In the UK the only schools open to the public are State Schools.
Public and private schools will often be inspected by the Independent Schools Inspectorate although Ofsted will inspect around half.
Ofsted is the place to go for State Schools.
1Moment2Acrobatic@reddit
The vast majority of kids go to state schools, some figures say slightly more go to private schools in London but still about 90% go to state schools in London. There are lots of good state schools in London, they will increase demand for housing in their local area and so increase house prices. You can find ratings and reports on schools on the website of the education inspectorate Ofsted
ZoomByYak@reddit
OP might also find Get information about schools useful once they have an address.
It’s a database of all schools in England, I believe including private schools, which you can search by postcode and location, and pulls a lot of information together in one place. Will be useful to see what’s available in your area.
Mammoth-Difference48@reddit
That’s so hard to do though as choosing where to live is dependent on schooling.
Mammoth-Difference48@reddit
If you were living anywhere else in the UK then getting into a decent state school would be likely. In London, it can be a lot harder. House prices in the catchment areas for the best state schools can be at a wild premium (sometimes private school works out cheaper).
Bear in mind the best private schools are not just expensive, they are also selective. Preparing for the entrance exams is a project in itself. Friends have spent a full year prepping their children at home and with extra tutors.
I think you need to understand both your housing and education budgets for the UK and the academic level of your kids (do they have scholarship potential)?
Two kids in decent private schools is £50-60K per year based on what my friends tell me. I don’t know anyone with kids in state schools in London. And yes, I am embarrassed to say that but it’s true: everyone I know has gone private.
edison9696@reddit
There hasn't been much mention of grammar schools. These are state funded but have an ability based entrance exam called the 11 Plus. Your 12 year old is too old and your 10 year old might miss it too as it's normally taken in September in the last year before they start secondary school.
Their results tend to be significantly above average in absolute terms but they only exist in certain boroughs of London, mainly the outer ones.
Emergency_Summer_397@reddit
Also bear in mind that if your kid takes the 11+ exam and doesn’t get in, for whatever reason, it can feel like a huge failure and burden them for life. Grammar schools were abolished in many parts of the country for this reason - sorting kids into ‘academic’ and ‘not academic’ at the age of 11 is deeply, deeply problematic imo. Bear in mind also that having a grammar school locally will hive off the most middle class kids (whose parents can pay for special coaching) and the quality of the alternative local comprehensive will inevitably go down without them and their pushy parents. I personally plan to make sure I am not in the vicinity of any grammar school when my kids reach that age. I think they are toxic for all involved and should be abolished.
SilverBirches123@reddit
The exams for Sept ‘26 intake have happened already. ‘In-year admissions’ (so applying outside the usual admission round) are quite rare as hardly anyone leaves. If a space becomes available a number of children will sit a test to see who gets the place.
edison9696@reddit
I don't know how many grammar schools are now academies but AFAIK an academy can set their own admissions policies.
It was pre-academy status admittedly, but I joined a grammar school in Year 9 and took a non-standard entry test in Spring of Year 8.
SilverBirches123@reddit
Yes, they have an admission policy but the application is done through the LA. And anyway, in London success rates for grammars are maybe 15% and the children need to be well prepped before they sit the test so it really wouldn’t be of much relevance here.
edison9696@reddit
Fair enough, like I said my experience was a long time ago and I wasn't sure if their 10YO had already missed the boat.
ignatiusjreillyXM@reddit
In general the best state schools in the country are in London. There are substantial differences not just between school and school but between borough and borough though. You may need to live close to the best schools to have a hope of getting a place in them though. The exception of this is the handful of boroughs that retain grammar schools (with an associated 11+ test), which guarantee a high quality education without having to live in a super expensive neighbourhood. Unfortunately governments of both parties opposed them for decades (and Labour still does) so only a few are left
montymole123@reddit
The state school your child goes to depends where you live. Each school has a catchment area and if you're in it you go to that one no alternative! If that's a bad school (and there are many bad ones) your only alternative is to go to a fee paying independent school (aka public school). As a result many people move to the catchment area of good schools causing house prices to soar. The other option is Church of England or Catholic schools which tend to be better and free. Many parents suddenly find religion as their child reaches 11. (Though priests are wise to these Damscene conversions!)
There are also selective but free grammar schools but these are rare these days as politicians have systemically shut them down. (School selection is a very political topic). Independent fee paying schools have also been hammered by the current government which now charges VAT on school fees for the first time in history (no other county does this) so school fees have just gone up by 20% !
Honestly the process of moving here will be hugely stressful for your kids. Might be better for your husband to come alone to London for the first year and see if he actually likes the job. He can then visit schools and prepare the way. It will take that long for him to understand the system!
I honestly think your only option will be fee paying independent schools which will be very expensive. I don't think you can negotiate a good state school without years of local knowledge or feigned (or genuine) religious fervour in the right churches. Your kids would likely end up in a crap school. Resign yourself to school fees. There are also American schools in London don't know about Canadian.
Specific-Hospital-53@reddit (OP)
I really appreciate your candour. Getting someone’s perspective who understands the system is so valuable. I’m not sure if I even want to move given the opportunities we have here. My kids are doing really well - have tons of friends, excel at school, very involved in extra curricular activities. Sometimes I think adding some adversity would be good for them but it would have to be carefully weighed against what we would be giving up. It has become apparent to me that schools would have to be a major consideration and that paying to go private would likely be the best choice.
SilverBirches123@reddit
If your children do a lot of extra-curriculars and you’d like them do be on sports teams, play in an orchestra etc then you’ll find UK state schools disappointing. Fee-paying schools offer a high quality of that wider experience and opportunities.
As to moving countries, it’s a big step but also an interesting opportunity for the children as well.
MarzipanElephant@reddit
It is not strictly true that all schools have a catchment and all children within it go there with no alternatives. Proximity is certainly a big factor but not the only one.
Realistic-River-1941@reddit
Beware of the terminology trap. In England "public schools" are a posh, old and potentially very expensive subset of independent schools, not taxpayer funded schools - those are called state schools.
I don't have kids, but schools vary massively by type, location and all kinds of other issues. It needs very local knowledge.
Specific-Hospital-53@reddit (OP)
The UK definitely has so many more options than we do where I’m from in Canada. This is not going to be as easy as I had hoped!
carolethechiropodist@reddit
6.9% of British kids go to private school. So 93.1 % go to state school. I went to 17 schools, not all in the UK, the good UK state schools were better than the private schools. The worse were awful. Bullying was rife in all British schools I went to. Never got bullied at European schools.
Specific-Hospital-53@reddit (OP)
Your experience sounds awful. I really hope things have changed.
carolethechiropodist@reddit
I doubt it.
Future-Pomelo4222@reddit
I found this really useful when deciding which school to request on admission forms : https://www.locrating.com/ much better than the government one as they collate more data:
https://www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk/compare-schools
You will find being in a good/bad school catchment area will affect house prices. There is also a test known as an 11+for grammar (secondary) schools, these have intakes at yr7 and occasionally yr9. Each has their own admission requirements. However the intake is highly competitive and unless your child is genius level, the test is not passable without specialist tuition.
IntravenusDiMilo_Tap@reddit
London schools get more funding per pupil than schools elsewhere but thats because cockneys are a bit thick.
Antique_Historian_74@reddit
Education is run by the local authority, which in London will be one of thirty two boroughs. So it's definitely one of the things to be looking at when you're thinking where to live.
ODFoxtrotOscar@reddit
School admissions are coordinated by the borough.
But many schools are academies (not under local council control) so choice of borough need not be the be-all and end-all
NotASexJoke@reddit
But admissions still are based more on proximity than any other factor
shelleypiper@reddit
People choose where to live based on the quality of the local school because you need to live in a school catchment area. So study the schools now and choose which area you live based on catchment knowledge.
Rich kids go to private school. You'll get a more sheltered and insular experience there. You may also go on to rule the country?
Flat-Ad8256@reddit
Location is everything. Some state (publicly funded) schools are fantastic, some are poor and most have their strengths and weaknesses. So a lot will depend on where you are
Whulad@reddit
It really depends where you live at a micro level. IE most boroughs have good schools but depends wether you’re in their catchment areas
ODFoxtrotOscar@reddit
Most of London dies not have catchment areas (ie defined priority admissions areas) and the oversubscription criteria often come down to distance from the school. That does mean that schools have in effect an admissions footprint, and if you live further away than that you need to be realistic about your chance of getting a place (ie they’re slim, and the demographic change that means there are fewer children in London hasn’t quite percolated up to secondary age, but it will in a couple of years and footprints will probably get larger)
You can check the ‘greatest distance admitted’ for schools (it’s usually published alongside other admissions information) but this is only relevant in the main admissions round for year 7. It’s not do useful for ad hoc admissions.
Specific-Hospital-53@reddit (OP)
Sounds like I have a lot of homework to do! Thanks for the info!
Historical_Pin2806@reddit
Location is key and check the schools in the area.
PM_ME_BUTTERED_SOSIJ@reddit
Depends entirely where in London. Some are great (where rich people live), others godawful
Streathamite@reddit
The richest areas don’t have the best state schools as those are the areas with the largest percentage of children at private schools so there’s less pressure from pushy parents on the state system to perform well:
Bobzeub@reddit
Happy cake day :D
Embarrassed-Rice-747@reddit
I'd say it's the opposite. Rich people send their kids to public (private) school regardless and the secondaries tend to be shit.
A lot of state schools in slightly deprived areas are amazing because of extra funding and grants. A lot of state schools in more middle class areas are good, particularly in London, because there aren't that many grammars (also state funded) per capita compared to other parts of the country.
I mean, regardless, it depends on where you are. If you live in an area with lots of professional people with families, schools are likely to be good because parents want to see their kids succeed. In more deprived areas, it can be a crapshoot, because you've got parents who push their kids to get everything out of their education they can and succeed, and parents who think their education did fuck all and don't bother to push.
Both of my kids go to state school, we're in Zone 4. I wouldn't say it's as good as my public (state) high school in the US (which was amazing because of how schools are funded in the US). My eldest is very clever and AuDHD, and not all schools are well set up for special needs. That said, both he and his younger sister are doing quite well.
SilverBirches123@reddit
I wouldn’t say that’s accurate. A lot of the high achieving schools are actually in outer London in areas that are relatively affordable.
SilverBirches123@reddit
https://www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk
This is the government website with school stats. London is made up of 32 local authorities (boroughs).
There are plenty of excellent state schools but compared to fee-paying schools class size is much bigger (30 being the norm) and the facilities/co-curricular options aren’t a patch on private schools because the state funding is a third or a quarter of the private fees.
The usual intake round happens when children are 10 to join a secondary school at 11. That is a good time to get into a desirable state school, often simply because you live close enough. If you find that you’ve missed the intake (so that will be the case for your 12yo at least), the desirable schools might be full and you will be offered somewhere that does have spaces (likely to be a worse school).
Private schools are much easier to find a space at, especially after a 20% VAT was added on fees a few months ago. With siblings at the same school, you’ll often get a small discount. The fees vary considerably, often because some schools are profit making whilst others non-profit or charities.
Specific-Hospital-53@reddit (OP)
Great info, thank you.
elvieevee@reddit
Ex state and private school teacher here (London). Private schools are expensive. It’s not just the fees you see on the website it’s exam entrance fees, trips, extra curricular, uniform, sometimes books as well, sporting equipment, etc. My son went through private school from age 7 to 18 but we were lucky and were part funded. My financial advisor always says you need a HHI of around £300k p.a. to put a kid through private secondary school. Don’t forget schools are now charging VAT on fees too.
Specific-Hospital-53@reddit (OP)
Good food for thought. Thank you
elvieevee@reddit
There’s lots of school debate (primarily London) on r/HENRYUK which you might find useful
Capable_Loss_6084@reddit
Depends where it is. Schools can vary considerably depending on the area, the inclinations of the leadership team, whether they can retain good teachers and a whole host of other factors. The best state schools are extremely good, the worst are depressingly awful - often not because of the staff but because they are dealing with a whole heap of problems that schools are not equipped or funded to deal with.
There’s usually a lot of information on school websites and you can look at the Ofsted reports (but these don’t always give the whole picture).
Specific-Hospital-53@reddit (OP)
Appreciate this. Thank you
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