When you don’t touch down evenly on both mains, you’d be surprised how little vertical speed it takes to cause a structural failure. Thats basically what happened do the delay plane up in toronto.
Then you’d know that Endeavor in Toronto (not Delta) was because they pulled power at over 100agl and they punched the gear thru the spar. And you’d know that has nothing to do with this incident.
Now I’m curious, as a 737 captain myself, what you fly?
> Then you’d know that Endeavor in Toronto (not Delta) was because they pulled power at over 100agl and they punched the gear thru the spar
The report says 1098 fpm at touchdown. That vertical speed at touchdown still should not have caused *the wing to shear off.* They reported an asymmetric touchdown is the main reason that that catastrophic structural failure happened the way it did.
> Now I’m curious, as a 737 captain myself, what you fly?
A320. Now is this the part where you’re gonna tell me that the 37 is a “totally different beast” and that I don’t know what I’m talking about?
Nope, because I’ve flow the 320 for two carriers as well. Catastrophic structure failure due to pilot error is different than a normal landing in a 737 causing the gear/structure to fail (like Alaska), which has nothing to do with the right main contacting the ground first here in the video.
>Catastrophic structure failure due to pilot error
That’s not illuminating because both excessive descent rate and asymmetric touchdown are pilot error.
> is different than a normal landing in a 737 causing the gear/structure to fail (like Alaska),
That was not a normal landing. They touchdown down at 500-600 fpm. Now, that’s not hard enough to shear the main gear up through the wing, but it’s definitely not a normal landing. (They also touchdown wings level, which helped lead investigators to the maintenance issue).
*This* West jet plane didn’t do that. They came down like a sack of bricks on one main gear. I’ll eat my shoe if this gear failure is revealed to be a maintenance problem likely the Alaska jet, and not pilot error with excessive sink rate and asymmetric touchdown.
Just checking to see if you’re ok after reading the preliminary report. Trunion pin failure.
And this folks is why we don’t trust aviation keyboard warriors online, no matter how confident they may try to appear.
I’d like the video of you eating your shoe here.
This is pedantry. All they said was “The initial review of the flight data recorder data indicates that this was not a hard landing event.”
I’m focusing on “They came down like a sack of bricks **on one main gear**.”
> Trunion pin failure.
That is not them saying it was a mechanical defect. That just means that the damage happened. They have not said whether or not it was a defect or whether or not it was because of the asymmetric touchdown.
This is pitiful that you’re being this pedantic and petty. You need to just move on.
But it’s words you didn’t read. Because that’s not what it says.
* my for this entire time as it was *the asymmetric touchdown*. Not that it was a “hard landing.” if you’d ask me then, I would’ve said the same thing I’d say now, but this wouldn’t have happened if they’d touched down symmetrically.
* this reporting does not assert there was a mechanical defect. They are simply detailing the damage.
**So the two things you think are making your point, do not make your point**. You have misunderstood what you read. That’s particularly embarrassing given how petty you were to come all the way back to this, months later, just to try to make that point.
Still too many words and AI formatting because you can’t argue that you’re wrong.
https://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/enquetes-investigations/aviation/2025/a25f0337/a25f0337.html
Per the updated report; “The initial review of the flight data recorder data indicates that this was not a hard landing event.”
I’d like to see the video of you eating your shoe now. Because you called it a hard landing event. So go ahead and use AI again to counter yourself. You’re wrong.
I literally explained this to you. If you’re not gonna read, then why did you bother coming back here months later?
> Because you called it a hard landing event.
Quote me. You can’t. Because here’s what *actually* said:
* They came down like a sack of bricks on **one main gear**. I’ll eat my shoe *if this gear failure is revealed to be a maintenance problem* like the Alaska jet, and not pilot error with *excessive sink rate* **and asymmetric touchdown.**
Emphasis because apparently you need the extra help.
> So go ahead and use AI again to counter yourself
There’s no AI here. Maybe *you* should run my responses through an Ai, because an AI will actually read what I say.
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That is a technique only. And this right here shows why it’s a questionable technique. I never got onboard with that method. You better be kissing it onto the runway from a 50 fpm rate of descent if you’re gonna touch down one-wheel first.
The textbook says crab wings level, and then take out most of the crab in the flare. You shouldn’t be in the flare long enough to really drift, and then need to lower the upwind wing much at all. Get it on the ground with heavy crosswinds.
Sure boss. But the reality is pilots aren’t perfect. Sometimes they float. And you need to be able to add an appropriate amount of roll to prevent drift from center line. And of course, if you are floating; your decent rate has to be very low…
Routinely professional pilots land upwind wheels first and it is not a problem. There is more to this accident than pilot landing technique.
> Sometimes they float. And you need to be able to add an appropriate amount of roll to prevent drift from center line.
That’s not must I’m talking about. Everyone does that. I’ve never *not* had to do a little bit of that despite the half-crab method. I’m talking about wing-down-top-rudder as a crosswind technique, like in the OP
If you are referring to the Toronto incident you are wrong. An 1150fpm landing is structural damage. That isn’t hard that is a punching metal through other metal. This 738 landing looks like a failed trunnion pin just like the Alaska Airlines flight.
>An 1150fpm landing is structural damage.
It’s not “wing falls off and a fireball skids down the runway.”
You said structural *damage*. I said structural *failure*… as in the wing falls off.
The NTSB report specifically cited touching down asymmetrically on the mains as to why the catastrophic structural failure happened.
That and a lot of the upward force didn’t just go into the main strut as designed, it went into the down lock strut, and caused it to fail because of how much bank she had in.
Kinda looked like, when The flare started, it rolled right slightly and the combination drove the right gear into the runway... Instead of settling into the runway after the flare.
Agreed. This looks like some kind of fatigue failure. Maybe tied to the last 737 landing gear collapse due to grinding burn on the main pin that occurred during MRO overhaul?
Looks like the right main gear pushed up and deformed the right upper wing surface. Didn’t look hard. Looked fast with a possible tailwind but that shouldn’t be a factor.
Now we've got internal video, I think it was plenty hard. To my eye - just on landing the crosswind got underneath the left wing, rolling the aircraft and pushing the right wheel into the ground hard.
That's what I'm seeing too. It looks like 2-3 feet from the ground the left wing pops up, forcing the whole weight of the plain onto the right landing gear. I have an armchair degree in aviation physics, and can confidently say that it should not have broken the landing gear.
https://preview.redd.it/0qm0akjvmsnf1.png?width=667&format=png&auto=webp&s=0c0e379c14909a42b556095cbb1d3de876ff2394
Perhaps similar in appearance to this: [https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F4EhUPqaAAAs0iP?format=jpg&name=medium](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F4EhUPqaAAAs0iP?format=jpg&name=medium)
Man all aircraft other than the tiny STOL stuff seems like it is hauling ass to me! 100+ MPH is very fast when you get close enough to the ground to realize it.
Crazy fast! I think about it every time I land looking out the window wondering what our ground speed is. How low do any commercial airliners get? It always feels 150+mph.
Faster than A320. Interestingly, the A380 wing is so large and complex it and so much fuel has been burnt on a long-haul flight that it can land much slower than a B737
No it's not, A320 can have as much as 20 knots lower approach speed. It's one of the reasons why the 737 has such an insane number overruns and excursions.
FlightAware showed 144 knots as its ground speed just before touching down. With a 12 knot headwind, that'd be about 156 ktas. A little fast even for a 737, but not crazy.
You're right, sorry, the only reason I mentioned it was because the speed over the ground crept up by 10 knots in the last 48 seconds of the flight. 134 -> 138 -> 141 -> 144. It could be nothing more than lower winds near the ground, but it could also be a data point suggesting the approach wasn't as stabilized as it should have been.
NAP however the aircraft coming in to land there are generally a fair bit lower in alt. Suspect it was less about speed and more about descent slam? Happy to stand corrected.
[https://avherald.com/h?article=50d52882](https://avherald.com/h?article=50d52882)
On May 23rd 2025 the NTSB released their [final report](https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-repgen/api/Aviation/ReportMain/GenerateNewestReport/192903/pdf) and the [investigation docket](https://data.ntsb.gov/Docket?ProjectID=192903) concluding the probable cause of the accident was:
*Maintenance personnel’s excessive grinding of the left main landing gear’s aft trunnion pin during machining, which imparted heat damage to the base metal and led to the fatigue cracking that caused the pin to fracture during landing.*
I worked for AK Airlines long time ago. Remember seeing a guy grind more than 3" out of leading edge of CFM-56 first set of compressor blade to repair a diver. Asked if he knew the limits for grinding. He said he knew more than the engineers. The whole crew was like that.
If I remember correctly it's a regulatory requirement the gear fails backwards and then up on overload to save the rear spar failing and also puncturing the tanks.
Yeah, that dark streak/line on the wing before the slides popped out and blocked the view looked an awful lot like [Alaska's gear collapse](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F4EhUPqaAAAs0iP?format=jpg&name=medium).
I know its a meme, but ryanair has never had a major crash, let alone a fatality it its existence.
its safety record is one of the best in the business.
I finally scrolled down to this thread to watch the actual incident and I have to agree. It looked a little rough, but nothing seemed beyond the pale. I was spotting last month and watched an Alaska 737 pilot absolutely smack the deck harder than I've ever seen and that jet has made a hundred flights since. It was like they forgot to flare because it was a hell of a landing even from the ground.
It's pretty hard to judge from videos like this. The delta connection crash didn't look that hard to me either, but the sink rate made it pretty clear.
The NTSB said it was heat stress caused by a maintenance engineer when they were grinding. Too much grinding and it weakened the main part. Not a manufacturing fault at least in the Alaska incident.
\^\^\^ this, most likely that's what it is,, it was a firm landing but not a hard landing.
Remember these landing gear are suppose to last 10-12 years before they are swapped out, they are designed to take a beating every day.
What do you recommend would be a better sequence of events to deal with this hard landing? A gear collapse? The strut to remain rigid and penetrate through the wing structure or perhaps the wing snaps off due the the shearing forces?
I wouldn't categorize the strut deflate as "self-deflating"...it deflated due to the seals losing containment...due to the landing forces, as designed.
The cowling of the engine (not the engine) making contact with the runway is a better/more controllable event than any other options I listed above. In fact, since no sparks are seen there is unlikely any engine damage. Again, please share your sequence of events that might have provided a better outcome in this situation.
https://preview.redd.it/hsoov3agavnf1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=98c0e654f64cb2c84967105a6771190fc6466bb0
Too much to dissect in that paragraph of nonsense, instead I'll just let you explain what that bulge is above the wing.
Now it appears the strut did not deflate and the landing gear suffered a structural failure. Investigation is going to determine ultimately what happened but the fact is this, a aircraft strut should deflate under extreme load and thus reduce the chances of a structural failure in a hard landing event. If you care to study the way and why's of main landing gear you can check out this [link](https://avweb.com/features/the-savvy-aviator-31-know-your-oleo/).
I’m not going to pile on negative vibes, and while a lot of engineering goes into strut / oleo design, it doesn’t always transfer to real world conditions. Engineers get it wrong a lot.
Yeah, nothing in your article says that. I know the way and why's of landing gear struts, I've flushed and/or serviced them and replaced the seals on them.
To quote the article,
>**if** the maximum pressure in the strut when fully compressed is more than 5,000 or 6,000 psi, the seal **might** blow out on a hard landing.
As in, the seal has a chance of failing under extreme conditions and doing undesirable things. That's not a design feature. Not to say 100% nothing exists like that ever, but I would certainly be surprised to find that as an intended feature. The fluid in the strut is the only thing, even under extreme conditions, doing any damping. If your seal blows out, you're practically guaranteeing all forces are now transmitted directly into the airframe as the piston makes intimate contact with the top of its travel.
Boeing will decide what NDT is mandatory after the arduous task of getting it mobile again. Still a valuable aircraft so may be fixed. Have to wait and see.
Feels like that cargo ship in the Suez Canal situation lol. There was even a website along the lines of « is that ship still stuck? » and it would just say « yup » on the front page lmao
It’s night now and still going on, man I guess this ruined a lot of people’s day lmao. Do we know if it’s just terrible piloting that could have been avoided? Man there’s a lot of people that are pissed right now I guess.
> Do we know if it’s just terrible piloting that could have been avoided?
We won't know that for a bit but honestly as a pilot myself the landing didn't look that rough.
Thank you, I’m frankly a complete amateur myself so didn’t want to jump on hurr durr conclusions « what a terrible pilot that just shut down two nations’ sole airport »
I used to keep the Haneda airport Livestream on my computer when I worked nights. I got up to do some work for about an hour, and checked reddit while I was away from my computer to see the crash last year. Sure enough, the Livestream showed it. I missed seeing it by about five minutes.
PR is pretty great. Had great seafood at the Luquillo “shacks”… the forts in San Juan were a great tour. The food was pretty great. Depending on what you were doing in Saint Maarten, I think I enjoyed San Juan more than I did Phillipsburg.
Def check out the national park forts. Cool as shit. Food is delicious, but not the french fare SXM has to offer. Beaches aren't toptional, but you'll have more people selling icecream and booze and less selling massages while weirdly grabbing at your feet.
approx response times starting from when the plane came to a stop:
1:30 firetrucks arrive
3:00 start spraying water
8:00 slides deploy and evacuation begins
Impressive. I assume they could have deployed the slides earlier but there was no major active fire or imminent danger so I assume they waited a bit to see if they had other options to get everyone off.
Follow on this.
When you order an evacuation, you are looking at injuring something like 10% of your passengers. Most will be bumps and bruises, but expect broken ankles, fractures, backs. They are designed to get you out as fast as possible and alive.
If you can wait for stairs, you wait. If you wait too long when you should evac, people can and do die. It's a bitch of a decision to make.
You’d think they could train some sort of third option, in between those. Like how pilots can call a May Day or a Pan Pan, maybe they could have a “slow evac” protocol where they don’t wait for stairs and still use the slides but a bit less rushed (plus maybe some sort of inflatable landing cushion type thing that could be added to the bottom of the slides only in those special cases…?)
Could you - yes.
The problem is that an evacuation is an evacuation. You don't want an option where people will think its ok to take your time, because they will every time.
You are aboard the aircraft because it's the safest part of an airport apart from the terminal... or its the most dangerous and get out now. You don't want an evacuation to ever be watered down. People suck, we need to be controlled.
Slide evacuation was requested by ARFF via ATC, #1 side slides only to start. You can hear it in the public recording.
We would all prefer that pilots and fire rescue work the situation, and not take rushed steps when they don’t have to. If nobody is seriously injured and there’s no fuel or ignition, take the extra minutes to get a good look and find the best option.
I would consider the execution of this incident to be pretty high quality and methodical by all parties.
no, those are minutes/seconds. So the evacuation began 8 minutes after landing, and completed 18 mins after landing.
I added a “min:seconds” note to my comment now.
I'm not an expert, I would have thought they didn't discriminate between evacuations because it's good practice either way. 10 minutes seems like a long time, I bet there are standards and I just don't know what they are.
At least from the video, there didn't appear to be flames or sparks, just more smoke than usual. It was probably not obvious to the tower that anything had happened.
I’m an ARFF and that’s what we train for! ARFF is all about response time so we’re staged and monitoring all commercial operations. These guys probably watched it happen and were already suited, booted and rolling out by the time the pilot radioed for ARFF. Really great response from their ARFF dept from what I saw!
Judging from this picture the gear went through the wing. Identical to the Alaska incident.
https://preview.redd.it/xl6go03rrsnf1.jpeg?width=1259&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7bbf37b8f5b8d80270f5399d494b653d5b62284d
What would they do if they decide to repair the plane but the facilities aren't equipped to handle that level of work? Would they fly in a repair team and equipment?
You should look up Boeing's team if you're interested in this. They fly around the world and set up mobile repair stations on a moment's notice, it's super cool. I wish I remembered what it was called
Thanks for the link - that was a really interesting read, and I love reading about the logistics behind these types of complex operations. Really cool stuff!
Yes, as I remember, Alaska's was an issue caused during gear overhaul, in central America, the way the maintenance was done was improper, but invisible to anyone other than ND testing.
I was checking out the livestream during work and it looks like they moved the airplane. Does anyone happen to have screenshots? I was hoping to watch it live, but I missed it. Thanks
The other stream also did a livestream of the process and saved it as a separate link, for when scrolling back stops working:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eciYHkaZPEQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eciYHkaZPEQ)
You can just re-wind the youtube live link: [https://hdontap.com/stream/093143/princess-juliana-intl-airport-live-cam/](https://hdontap.com/stream/093143/princess-juliana-intl-airport-live-cam/)
It depends, US carriers would probably go to Puerto Rico. French/Dutch to Guadeloupe or Martinique. Others to Antigua. But this happened in the afternoon after most traffic had already landed.
imagine you are on that plane you evacuate then go to your resort. Everyone behind you is screwed for a few days, by the time your vacation is over you hop on a plane and leave.
> one piper up there right now
Lucky they have a second airport sized for prop planes (and skydivers). As cool as SXM is, nothing like an espresso and a croissant while watching someone skydive at breakfast on orient beach.
>Hundreds of St Marteen landings **watched**
lol
I have hundreds (501 to be exact) of landings in SXM. I was the pilot. This landing looked perfectly average. It didn't appear firm enough to cause a gear collapse. And they landed near the 1000 foot markers. Exactly where they should be.
A little humility might go a long way with you. Calling these pilots amateurs and thinking you have the slightest clue what is cause for a go around, while not being a pilot yourself is embarassing.
Have you watched the onboard video?
I don’t think the passengers would squirm loudly and panic in a perfectly average landing.
I don’t think a perfectly average landing is when the pilot realizes he’s going too fast and too high and slams the plane down onto the runway.
I've watched the on board video as well as a few other exterior videos. In addition I've been an airline pilot for 20 years.
How do you know he was going too fast? Were you in the flight deck? Do you somehow already have access to the flight data recorder? Because without that you have zero grounds to say he was going too fast.
How do you know he was too high? Do you see how the plane land almost directly on those two huge white rectangles? Do you know what those rectangles are? They are the part of the touchdown zone. Now why do you think it's called that? I'll let you think about that for a bit.
I have no doubt that it was a firm landing. But transport category airliners are designed for firm landings and from what I'm seeing it looks like a perfectly normal firm landing well within the design specs of the landing gear.
If you're paying attention you'll notice that pretty much everyone with any experience in aviation is saying the same thing.
Perhaps the person who doesn't know what they're talking about is just wrong? Could that be the case here?
Nah. I'm sure you know what you're talking about.
A right proper expert then. My humblest of apologies. We no longer need to wait for the expert investigators, ladies and gentlemen, this redditor has singlehandedly solved it. No need to look at all causal factors. Case closed.
I've been to that beach and my first reaction was they looked high, so maybe tried to over compensate or needed to get down quickly. Those planes felt so low you could reach up and touch them when landing.
Thanks for posting the live feed link, really cool!
They open doors/activate the slides at 13:37 on the clock in the lower right hand side of the live feed!
If there is no immediate threat to the lives of the passengers such as fire at the landing gear, then yes, several minutes or more is normal. In some instances they'll pull up a staircase truck and deplane in an even safer manner. It's common for some people to get hurt when using a slide.
They may have erred in deploying the right side slide in this instance.
Can’t remember what it was but some US plane suffered a small fire like two months ago? Anyway, dude recorded people sliding down, and sure enough, upon reaching the floor with moderately high velocity, multiple people face-planted as they attempted to get up while still sliding, including one who was carrying a child in front of them.
Hah that’d be a sight. If that happens, maybe move people to the side before slapping them to avoid creating another obstruction. Just something to keep in mind because details sometimes are forgotten in the heat of the moment.
I think someone had the idea that overhead compartments should be locked and the handles should be armed with electric pulses when there’s an emergency like this. (I might have added the details about limiting the zapping area to the handles and using pulsed electricity?). If someone tries to open the compartment, they get a strong zap to assist them in making a better choice than trying to grab their bags.
Yep that was the one, it made the rounds on social media because everyone was carrying their stuff, including some of those fairly large suitcases with wheels
Luckily a 1 time AFFF exposure is highly unlikely to cause cancer. To my knowledge, there haven’t been any aircraft incident passengers who have gotten cancer attributed to foam exposure. It’s more of an occupational and environmental hazard.
A lot of the FF’s who got cancer from AFFF are older guys/gals who had far more exposure throughout their careers. At my station, we document every single AFFF and F3 exposure and go through a decon process every time. We’ve got a couple guys who used to wash their hands with the stuff cause I guess it cuts through grease pretty well…
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No. Plenty of pilots come in way to low and get on YouTube, but this strip has a displaced threshold so planes can keep a safe height over the beach and fence.
You can always go around. Unless there was an emergency and he was bingo fuel. Approach did not look stable, too much energy and overshot the threshold by a lot which is not great to do at that airport.
It's a single runway at a small airport, with a 737-800 collapsed that can't roll on its own. The airport reported they're working with heavy equipment providers to figure out how to move it, especially if they want to not damage it further, but that plane isn't going anywhere quickly. The frame will probably be on that island for a very very long time.
👀 Well there's my answer. I clipped the slide deployment for anyone curious.
https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkxx2tv73yJ4jNoJckYncfYgUw67-IhuKvf?si=-g73RkbZ1Fsftwwl[https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkxx2tv73yJ4jNoJckYncfYgUw67-IhuKvf?si=-g73RkbZ1Fsftwwl](https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkxx2tv73yJ4jNoJckYncfYgUw67-IhuKvf?si=-g73RkbZ1Fsftwwl)
Seems to be listing and could be thought to be unstable (other photos show the gear damaging the top of the wing). I have no idea how they make that decision, but from my POV it seems reasonable to not want to use rigid stairs next to it with the weight shifting?
737NG Split Scimitar Winglets, close but not quite the same as the MAX AT Winglets. Plane also has two buttholes, and the registration of a 2009 737-800.
http://www.b737.org.uk/winglets.htm
Aviation tends to be actually more forgiving of honest mistakes than other industries.
They’ve found that being overly punitive on mistakes tends to lead to cover ups and that is a major safety problem. Or people taking stupid risks to fix their mistakes in a way that conceals them.
So they emphasis fact finding over the blame game in many areas.
I think it was hard, specifically on the right gear, due to the roll to the right at touchdown. The felt descent rate on the starboard side was probably double that of port.
Yes, it was a firm landing, but not hard enough to collapse the gear itself. This looks more like the Alaska gear collapse at SNA, which was a maintenance overhaul issue. I am not saying that is exactly the same issue at play, but I wouldn't say this is a hard landing.
Lowering the into wind wing is a regular part of Xwind technique, yes. But the stage and technique that was used here looks (to me) to have resulted in a very high TOD on the right side just at the point of right main contact.
To your question, I am well experienced with Xwinds in sweptwing jets.
Similar thing happened on an Alaska 737 landing in Orange County a year or two ago. Investigation revealed that the landing was within normal limits but there was an issue with the gear that resulted in the collapse. Little early to put it all on the pilot.
But the second sentence of “nobody hurt, all crew and passengers ok” is the important one.
Tow it to an apron, jack it up and fix the gear so it’s locked down, a little sheet metal work (as long as the spar is ok) and ferry it back for a more thorough inspection and repair.
Honestly I doubt this is much of a black mark, the crew kept it on the runway, safely evacced, etc.
It doesn't look like he really fucked up the landing though. I'm sure the paperwork is going to be a nightmare, but he shouldn't get chewed out over this.
Why would that be the case? Everyone walked away just fine. Landing itself wasn't that bad.
I was on a way harder/faster landing than this last week, and the gear didn't fail.
Probably just fill out a bunch of paperwork and get put on admin duties until they tell you it wasn't your fault but maybe smooth out the flair a little more next time.
Awkward Pilot to Boss conversation - Boss here's the thing, you know when you're coming into land and you hit the ground too hard, weeeell, watch the news at 6
Notam issued - this is going to be a while...
TNCM A0509/25 TNCM **AD(airport) CLSD** DUE DISABLED ACFT. EXEMPTION ONLY FOR HELICOPTER MEDEVAC. 2509072152-2509081600
|**Event**|**Timestamp**|**Notes**|
|:-|:-|:-|
|🛬 Landing|13:29:45|Touchdown|
|🚒 First truck arrives|13:31:35|1 min 50 sec after landing|
|🧯 Foam application begins|13:33:08|1 min 33 sec after truck arrival|
|🛝 Slides deployed|13:37:37|4 min 29 sec after foam begins|
|🏃♂️ Evacuation complete|**13:48:00**|**10 min 23 sec** total evac timeEvent Timestamp Notes🛬 Landing 13:29:45 Touchdown🚒 First truck arrives 13:31:35 1 min 50 sec after landing🧯 Foam application begins 13:33:08 1 min 33 sec after truck arrival🛝 Slides deployed 13:37:37 4 min 29 sec after foam begins🏃♂️ Evacuation complete 13:48:00 10 min 23 sec total evac time|
Do they even have the capability of fixing this there? I know they can fly in parts, but I don't know if they have the machinery needed to get the weight of the aircraft off that hardware to fix/replace it.
Flying in parts and engineers is pretty normal for SXM.
Lots of heavy equipment, especially since Irma. I’m curious about their plan to move it early tomorrow AM.
How long does it take to clear the runway in this situation? What kind of special equipment is needed to tow that to where ever the repairs are going to be? How long will this aircraft be out of commission?
AARF here! Super hard to tell how long it will take to clear the aircraft from the runway. They’re going to have to assess structural damage, mitigate fuel leaks, asses what heavy equipment is available and what can be used etc.
FF also typically have a responsibility to secure evidence on the scene, so trying to move an aircraft that’s had significant structural damage can ruin the “evidence” if the aircraft isn’t moved with a significant degree of forethought and planning. Sometimes it can’t be moved without causing further damage and that means investigators will need to conduct their investigation where the aircraft sits before moving it.
Recovery could take 12-24 hours if the stars align and the airport is well prepared for it. But it could also sit there for much much longer. And that’s just clearing it from the runway.
Official statement from the airport as of 2:40pm local time:
Princess Juliana International Airport Operating Company N.V. (PJIAE) confirms that an incident occurred today involving a WestJet Boeing 737-800 aircraft, operating as flight WS2276 from Toronto (YYZ) to St. Maarten (SXM). The aircraft landed at 13:31 local time.
There were 164 souls on board. We are relieved to report there were no injuries. Out of an abundance of caution, three individuals were taken for medical evaluation. There was no fire; however, contact with the runway caused damage to the aircraft’s right wing.
PJIAE is currently working with local partners and heavy equipment providers to safely remove the aircraft from the runway. As a result, the airport will remain closed until further notice.
All relevant civil aviation authorities and SXM stakeholders have been notified. Passengers and the public are advised to contact WestJet directly via their website for further updates regarding the flight.
English isn't my first language, but "souls" isn't the most neutral terminology, is it? As long as there are no injuries or deaths why not use "crew and passengers"?
It's the "were" they are referring to.
There **were** 164 souls onboard could imply that there are no longer any souls on board or in other words, 164 fatalities.
It's just an odd phrasing that could be considered ambiguous. It would be easily cleared up be rewording it a bit.
Maybe ever so slightly high and probably not fast at all for a 737. The threshold is displaced a decent amount there. We’ve (unfortunately) gotten used to only seeing the morons that drag it in over the beach, so a normal 50’ threshold crossing looks “high”.
You know, I'll own the mistake for not thinking about that particular aspect of the approach - all I've ever seen is the barnstormers dragging sand, and most of those get slowed down to watch John Tourist getting blown ass over teakettle as it is. Thanks for your thoughts on it - cleared of the bad data, I can understand the approach better. Today I learned.
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n550nw#3c18a375
That last Delta after the crash diverted to SJU. Looks like they may have gotten down for a quick view..
Looks like he came in high for a St Marten approach. Usually they are a lot lower at the end of the runway. Maybe realized that and increased his sink rate to get down and try to stop in time?
This may be just one factor; other mechanical factors may have meant he had low margins to start with.
I mean they're designed for that. That's exactly what happens on every single properly executed crosswind landing. The upwind gear touches first.
This didn't even look like a hard landing. I'll be curious to see what the cause was.
There's some of that, but there's also that you're hearing it second-hand through a radio through an internet feed. In the headset in the aircraft/tower it's far clearer.
SAY. FUCKING. MAYDAY. What the flying hairy motherfucking jesus christ is so difficult for North American pilots about saying the goddamn word? "Gejdjfn rjdkfbe whsifnf rollthetrucks please djfkrbebjcjd". No. No. Again, no. Of course the tower controller had to ask for clarification. Why is a clear MAYDAY call so taboo for north American pilots?
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I always thought that 737’s landings were rougher than other planes. I asked a retired pilot a few years ago if it was a plane problem and he told me that it was the pilot. I personally thought that it was the plane, but I am not the expert.
Landing hard must be a thing with WestJet. Landed in Toronto with my sons in July and I thought the right main was going to collapse, assuming we didn't fishtail sideways instead and skid down the runway on the belly. I've been a licensed pilot for many years and have taken my teenaged sons up a few times. One of them said the Toronto landing was the only time he's ever seen fear in my eyes. I wonder if WestJet has a bigger issue than our Toronto experience.
My mom was on the flight. She just called and said everyone is safe. Life is very unpredictable. At a family wedding last night and today this happens.
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Not a hard landing, looks firm-ish, appropriate for short runway, maybe 400 feet per minute. Just like Alaska in SNA when people thought it was hard but it was an acceptable 1.7G landing when the gear collapsed due to a problem in the structure.
This looks like what happened with an Alaska 738 landing at SNA in 2023. https://aviationweek.com/mro/safety-ops-regulation/improper-mro-work-led-2023-alaska-airlines-737-gear-collapse
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