If every person in the world filed a private lawsuit against a company, the company would go bankrupt.
Posted by cantbelieveyoumademe@reddit | CrazyIdeas | View on Reddit | 147 comments
If 8 billion people privately sued a company like Meta, assuming their pricely lawyers would charge ~$200 per law suit, that would cost Meta $1.6T (Meta's valuation is $1.856T) and would probably bankrupt the company.
kwixta@reddit
So a litigation DDOS attack
Main-Company-5946@reddit
A certain orange individual likes to use this tactic
RealisticTadpole1926@reddit
I can’t imagine how exhausting it must be to perpetually obsess over the same individual to the point where you are almost compelled to bring them up in nearly every conversation even when it’s clearly not about them. So sad.
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AssignmentWeary1291@reddit
Its reddit, TDS is the only existing ideology here. Im actually jealous of America, wish we had a leader that actually gave a fuck about us. Remember these are the same people who are mad that gang members, sex/human traffickers, sexual predators, and drugs dealers are being deported, you cant reason with that level of idiocy.
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Main-Company-5946@reddit
It’s certainly exhausting, but not nearly as exhausting as dealing with the impact said individual has on the lives of myself and the people I care about.
AssignmentWeary1291@reddit
Zero negative impact, congrats you learned something.
SpicyUnicorns17@reddit
Are we just ignoring the jobs numbers that came out today lmao
AssignmentWeary1291@reddit
Are we ignoring the falsely counted slave labor people like you endorse? The jobs numbers have been completely falsified for decades, plumped up by illegal human slave labor.
SpicyUnicorns17@reddit
U can look at their methodology and data my guy, just bc u don’t know how something works doesn’t make it a conspiracy.
Also “people like you” is crazy lmao
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ur_upstairs_neighbor@reddit
Honest question but what impact would that be?
Persistent_Parkie@reddit
My best friend is a DACA recipient currently going to through the green card process with her husband. Everytime she takes longer than usual to text me back I get to wonder if she's been snatched up by masked agents and if I'll ever even know what became of her. When she goes to green card appointments I can't sleep for a week leading up to them I'm so worried.
Oh and there's a whole bunch of stuff I can no longer oreder from Lego but I really can't be arsed to care about his economic impact when his human impact is so egregious.
AssignmentWeary1291@reddit
That sucks, DACA means she wasnt in the country legally in the first place. Too bad 🤷♀️ stop feeling bad for people who break laws. It has consequences, dont break them if you cant handle them.
Persistent_Parkie@reddit
Yeah, she really should have made better decisions when she was brought here at the age of 23 months /s
AssignmentWeary1291@reddit
🤷♀️ then get mad at her parents, she's still actively in violation of the law regardless. Maybe stop incentivizing the behavior of the parents like an idiot would.
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FragrantNumber5980@reddit
Standard of living (negative impact for most)
AssignmentWeary1291@reddit
Funny because the data from the US is showing the exact opposite 🤷♀️ whoops.
FragrantNumber5980@reddit
You mean slowed GDP growth, relative stagnation of the DOW and other important stocks over the past several months, inflation beginning to pick up even at insane interest rates (which are being kept high specifically to tone down the effects of idiotic inflationary policies), drastic price increases of critical imports, and a million other statistics that make it look like we’re heading back into stagflation or ‘08 again?
AssignmentWeary1291@reddit
None of which are actually true lol you should probably go study the data instead of listening to the news.
Better yet, stay the fuck away from CNN and fox news. Its all a bunch of bullshit, always has been. If you havent figured that out yet then it's society is truly fucked.
st_heron@reddit
You have TDS Derangement Syndrome 🤣🤣🤣
Apprehensive_Dog1526@reddit
Imagine how exhausting it would be to use all your spare time going online to defend somebody who doesn’t even know you exist.
This would be a very noble effort, if the person you were defending didn’t have the DOJ lawyers, White House lawyers, an army of his own personal lawyers, and a whole bunch of lawyers from law firms that he sued in his pockets.
Good on you for upholding the systemic oppression we are seeing.
In the analogy of the boot treading on the snake, you are a 3rd party coming in to ensure the boot is aimed at the snake correctly so that there is no injury to the rubber sole.
penndawg84@reddit
I tried to retort, but Reddit is such a right-wing echo chamber that it removed the comment where it proved that your whole side supports raping children.
AssignmentWeary1291@reddit
Reddit is the most left wing shill platform on the planet bud.
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2sACouple3sAMurder@reddit
Yet you’re so obsessed it triggered you this much enough to write up a paragraph about it. So sad.
Correct_Doctor_1502@reddit
It's not like he's destroying the lives of tens of millions of hard-working Americans or anything...
It's honestly so sad that you worship a child raping billionaire who wouldn't spit on you if you were on fire
ZipBoxer@reddit
It's incredibly exhausting. Most of us would rather go back to not worrying on a daily basis "what is this dumb motherfucker going to do or say today that will make life worse for 99% of Americans"
Unfortunately, he won't stop doing idiotic things, so we get no rest.
IndomitableSloth2437@reddit
I'm still looking for who asked.
Thedeadnite@reddit
The mango needs to be disparaged at every turn, he’s a corrupt awful shit stain of a person who has been the figurehead quite literally dismantling our country and causing decades of legal repairs needed. Decimating our global reputation, shredding it to tatters and making a mockery of our incredibly dumb populace, who is this dumb because of their efforts to hold back education, promote racisms and drag us socially back to the 1800s.
muggledave@reddit
So LDOS?
Is there an actual name for this already?
Temnyj_Korol@reddit
Yes. It's formally known as vexatious litigation. The deliberate usage of repeated/costly lawsuits of a frivolous nature in order to harass or inconvenience the target of the litigation.
Most countries have laws to punish someone suspected of committing vexations litigation, and if it's coming from a specific lawyer/firm, they can be disbarred.
MilesSand@reddit
This isn't that though.
OP is talking about everyone suing Meta once. There's no repeated lawsuit or abuse.
Temnyj_Korol@reddit
Yes it is. It's just being conducted by multiple parties at once, instead of by an individual.
If those parties are organising to all sue a company at the same time, while aware that their suit has no real merit, they're just doing it to harass the company, they're participating in vexatious litigation.
MilesSand@reddit
Why would you just assume that their suits separately have no merit?
Temnyj_Korol@reddit
Yes. I'm sure all 8 billion people on the planet have a valid cause for simultaneous litigation.
Ridiculous question.
Wulf2k@reddit
Are class action suits required to be class actions, or could everybody opt out to sue individually?
Expensive-Friend3975@reddit
In all the class action law suits I've been notified of it usually specifies that you have the option to opt out, but you have to actively notify someone you're opting out.
Thedeadnite@reddit
Pretty sure every individual has a valid and non frivolous claim against meta.
Herban_Myth@reddit
Did you wear a Law Suit?
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nunya_busyness1984@reddit
Nah. It would get class actioned in a heartbeat.
Neolith_Vega@reddit
That's what scientology did to the IRS, now they are tax exempt.
More_Temperature2078@reddit
If it's a legitimate complaint it would almost certainly be turned into a class action lawsuit. Then the company only worries about one large lawsuit instead of millions of small ones.
If it's frivolous than the company would demand the filler cover the fees.
Ancient_Unit6335@reddit
Meta has in house counsel. Also it would be easy to have them dismissed as frivolous
nqm971998@reddit
Maybe it's just easier to convince every person in the world not use the products of that company...
Available_Reveal8068@reddit
I would not expect Meta's lawyers to charge the company $200/lawsuit--aren't they already on staff for a fixed salary?
cantbelieveyoumademe@reddit (OP)
Yeah, that's a good point. I guess most Meta-sized corporations have their own legal department.
SirTwitchALot@reddit
It's not free to file a lawsuit. Even if you do it yourself it costs hundreds in court fees, and Meta can ask for their fees to be repaid if the suit is frivolous. You're not going to convince a significant number of people to waste real money filing bogus lawsuits
Tightestbutth0le@reddit
What?? Are you saying Moussa down in Mali won't want to pay to file a a lawsuit against an American company when he makes $0.72 a month?
renecade24@reddit
I've met exactly one person from Mali in my life, and his name happened to be Moussa. I also think he's exactly dumb enough to get caught up in this kind of scheme.
theultimateone@reddit
one moussa down, many moussa to go
imad07mos@reddit
Moses from Luxembourg can pay for 100 Moussa's to make it happen
fender8421@reddit
My dumbass mixed up Mali and Malawi
Subarctic_Monkey@reddit
"Court Fees" being a thing is absolutely bonkers. Any fees should be part of the final decision, not up-front costs.
All they do is create a barrier to people seeking justice.
duuchu@reddit
It stops people bringing trivial issues to court. People would just sue each other out of spite over basically nothing. They already do that when there is a fee. Imagine if there wasn’t?
ptolani@reddit
Lawsuits absolutely do not work for tiny amounts of money, so charging people a few hundred dollars to file has no effect on any real lawsuit.
Persistent_Parkie@reddit
In most places if you are truly destitute you can file paperwork to have them waived. The point of the fees is to prevent nuisance filings.
Ateist@reddit
Op's idea is precisely why such a barrier is an absolute must.
What stops someone who has no money at all (and thus is unable to pay fees, period) from filing thousands and thousands of frivolous lawsuits?
Who is going to pay the salaries of judges and cops if they constantly have to process billions of frivolous lawsuits by people with no money?
Who is going to judge actual crimes and lawsuits if all the courts are full of frivolous litigations?
SirTwitchALot@reddit
They often are included in the final judgement. The prevailing party often gets their fees paid by the losing party. It's not perfect, but the alternative is a system where there's justice for no one as the courts are clogged up with people filling lawsuits with no merit because they don't have to put any skin into the game to do so
Subarctic_Monkey@reddit
Reimbursements are included in the final judgement.
I don't actually believe that the courts would be "clogged up with people filing lawsuits with no merit because they don't have to put any skin in the game". There's fairly simple solution to halting that: make it clear lawsuits dismissed due to no merit earn points against the filer, and enough points, they're banned from filing.
Let the trash weed itself out.
DrawPitiful6103@reddit
They actually already do that, although not on a points system. Someone who abuses the legal system can be labelled a 'vexatious litigant' and restricted or limited in their ability to file lawsuits.
cantbelieveyoumademe@reddit (OP)
A quick Google search says $150. But yeah, the points you raised do put a damper on the plan.
The_Troyminator@reddit
It varies by state and even county.
cantbelieveyoumademe@reddit (OP)
Sure, just a very rough baseline.
SlickMcFav0rit3@reddit
This plan is still workable, but you just do mandatory arbitration instead of a lawsuit.
Most companies force you to sign a thing giving up your right to sue them anyway, but they have to engage in arbitration if you demand it. The arbitration firm is an outside company and they have to pay a fee to that company for every arbitration they engage in, even if it turns out to be pretty frivolous.
People did this to Uber a few years ago and they had to pay millions of dollars to the arbitration association
Own_Tune_3545@reddit
I easily broke 100k filling pro se lawsuits last year, and would have broken 200k if I accepted some settlements I thought were to small.
The plan is better than you can believe if you have some grit.
SlickMcFav0rit3@reddit
You raised a bunch of good points about why this is a bad plan, but there is a similar tactic that has actually been used to great effect
Most companies now don't even let you sue them, you have to go through mandatory arbitration. In a lot of ways this is terrible for you because it's not a cord and you can't get damages beyond a certain amount. But another way is it is advantageous. Filing for arbitration costs nothing in the company, by their own terms of service, is mandated to go get a third party outside arbiter. Even if the arbiter just throws the case out immediately, they do have to pay them home amount of money per case.
Someone did this to Uber a few years ago and they had to pay millions of dollars to the Association of Arbiters or whatever
ryanderkis@reddit
So, would you agree that this is a crazy idea?
TheNickman85@reddit
*champing at the bit
metagloria@reddit
*champing at the butt
TheNickman85@reddit
I'll allow it.
Own_Tune_3545@reddit
When you're poor you can file for free, and corporations typically don't get any fees in a win unless you blatantly just stop showing up in court.
proverbs17-28@reddit
If you convinced 8 billion people, just to never logged into their sites again, they would also go bankrupt
Reelix@reddit
Hosting is extremely cheap when you have no bandwidth costs.
mcprogrammer@reddit
Developers aren't as cheap.
repocin@reddit
But you don't need any if nobody is using the site.
duuchu@reddit
Labor, utilities, and rent isn’t cheap
malcolmmonkey@reddit
I was going to say, there’s a much easier and cheaper way to do it without 8 billion people hiring a lawyer. 🤣
Over_Intention8059@reddit
Nah they'd go to a court and whine and get it all bundled up into a class action suit or at least several. The lawyers running the class action suit would negotiate a settlement and get the lion's share of the money for their time and you'd get pennies on the dollar just like every other class action suit. You have to have a valid reason to sue in the first place or your shit would get thrown out anyway. Plus you probably already agreed to arbitration by signing the TOS in the first place.
TuvixHadItComing@reddit
I just want to point out the drug addict math you did there in your edit. Your premise was x people times y dollars per suit equals enough to bankrupt them. It was pointed out that your number for x was too high so you immediately raised y to cancel it out.
I'm not even saying one number is more or less wrong; I assume both numbers came directly out of thin air. It's just funny because the same kind of "make it fit math" is very familiar to recovering addicts, calorie counters, and people with poor time management (hey I just described myself three times in one sentence).
cantbelieveyoumademe@reddit (OP)
I made the edit before anyone pointed the population issues (under 18 etc), but that's besides the point.
The numbers were just a very low estimate to what it costs a big company to address a law suit (those law firms charge a lot more than $300 per hour), so I felt justified in increasing the cost to compensate for the decrease in law suit viable population.
TuvixHadItComing@reddit
Lol fair enough. Just struck me funny mostly because I've caught myself doingmake-it-fit-dammit math before and it reminded me of that.
Unindoctrinated@reddit
If every person in the world filed a private lawsuit against a company, the politicians who receive 'donations' from that company and/or own shares in that company, would introduce a new law that shielded it.
GeneStarwind1@reddit
Meta would file a motion to consolidate and the appropriate court would very likely grant it. If the lawsuits weren't thrown out as frivolous to begin with. Also, Meta has its own legal department with salaried lawyers. Meta would not pay lawyers on a case to case basis.
Ben-Goldberg@reddit
If the company has actually done something wrong, then the group of people sueing would have a better chance of success if they file a class action lawsuit.
If the company hasn't done anything wrong, why sue?
hahnwa@reddit
This is actually not true. Class Action suits are famously terrible at getting justice. Dispersed damages create false sense of scale for juries. They say things like getting cancer from Momento deserves 22 Million in damages, ignoring that it comes $25 per person.
beastpilot@reddit
Right. They're so bad and ineffective, this is why all those agreements out there prohibit you from participating in class actions, because companies see how ineffective they are.
/s
Unless you go around suing, that $25 is more than you ever would have gotten. Do you want the company to pay out $1M to 10 people that each sue for $100K each or $100M when they do something wrong?
duuchu@reddit
For such a small payout, i rather not even think about a lawsuit at all
hahnwa@reddit
Ah yes. Other avenues are also terrible, ergo, this path is not terrible.
They can all be terrible.
If you get people to individually sue, like OP is hypothesizing, that's better then a class action which only ensure lawyers get paid. And the damages awarded are ALWAYS lowered to just fines for doing business. We are talking about this circumstance, not all terrible circumstances.
beastpilot@reddit
We have real people to consider. Class actions are better with real people, because most people will not sue individually, as that takes time and money.
In that way, Class Actions are not terrible.
Own_Tune_3545@reddit
Class action is a complete disaster and useless to the population.
beastpilot@reddit
If true, why do companies always fight class actions and push for individual suits?
Own_Tune_3545@reddit
You're conflating two separate things. They fight for either general dismissal or against the class certification to prevent a case with a potential large award. They aren't by extension fighting for all the individual suits that could theoretically be filed instead. The majority of potential individual suits are chilled if the class action is first dismissed, that's the reality they never end up getting filed if the class action is dismissed.
beastpilot@reddit
Companies have literally fought multiple cases being put into a class, but not tried to get the individual cases dismissed.
cantbelieveyoumademe@reddit (OP)
There are plenty of companies that do wrong things, but not strictly illegal wrong things.
nsfbr11@reddit
There is no mechanism to process that many lawsuits. And frivolous lawsuits are often paid for by the bringer of said suits.
Stooper_Dave@reddit
Im not a lawyer. But I believe a court can review cases like this and force it into a class action
Dultrared@reddit
Or a judge can just not accept the case. Not everyone has a legitimate reason to sue a big company much less a case to bring before a judge. Most of them would probably be thrown out pretty quickly with little to no cost to the company.
TheRoadsMustRoll@reddit
but you realize that would mean they're off the hook. bankruptcy protects the company from lawsuits. so, once they file for bankruptcy your suit is meaningless and you're on the hook for attorney fees but the company keeps right on going after reorganization.
you would be better off in a class action and then settling out of court. your attorney would see the other suits (they're public) and move for class action almost immediately.
Brain_Hawk@reddit
I like the concept of this... A sort of legal social activism. Of course you'd never get 8 billion but even a few thousand simultaneous suits could be very vexing and damaging...
But I believe there is risk. In a nuisance suit they may award the targeted party legal fees... Meaning many people who.participated could face hefty bills.
PrimeIntellect@reddit
if you could get everyone in the world to do something, then a lawsuit would be pretty unnecessary, you could also just stop using their product and it would go away
cantbelieveyoumademe@reddit (OP)
lol, go away with your logic /s
CertifiedSheep@reddit
Their lawyers are on retainer lol, they don’t pay per case. Also the court system has finite resources, it can’t hear 8 billion cases at once. Even if you could get a more reasonable number like 10,000 people to sue separately, the judges would likely start throwing out frivolous cases very quickly as it would be really obvious what was going on.
cantbelieveyoumademe@reddit (OP)
They still pay for billable hours.
Therealme_A@reddit
Let's do Pfizer
HumanDissentipede@reddit
Assuming that many people actually figured out how to file the correct paperwork, Meta’s lawyers would just consolidate the separate but related actions into a single case and move to have them all dismissed with a single filing. Logistically, it’d be pretty easy for Meta to handle.
man_bear_slig@reddit
Didn’t the Scientologists do this to the IRS in the 70’s
zzmgck@reddit
Well first they would need to be able to file. Second, there would be some action to consolidate and dispose of cases that had no standing.
jeffcgroves@reddit
Maybe, but companies have faced class action suits (on behalf of multiple plaintiffs) before, so it might not be that bad.
cantbelieveyoumademe@reddit (OP)
That's why I said we should file private lawsuits.
jeffcgroves@reddit
Class action lawsuits ARE private lawsuits, but I see what you mean. I'm sure judges would combine them into a lawsuit with multiple plaintiffs
No-Reach-9173@reddit
Courts can't force a class like that. You always retain the right to remove yourself from the class if you want when is filed on your behalf.
big_sugi@reddit
This situation would pretty much mandate assignment from the Judicial Panel on Multi-district litigation. A plaintiff can’t opt of being transferred to the MDL.
No-Reach-9173@reddit
I'd assume you know more than me but this only applies to pretrial things like motions and discovery then the cases are returned to there respective courts if they survive the motions.
big_sugi@reddit
“If they survive the motions,” yes. But the overwhelming likelihood is that these claims aren’t going to survive a motion to dismiss and, if they do, aren’t likely to survive a motion for summary judgment.
jeffcgroves@reddit
True, I'd forgotten about that. Meta might get judges to dismiss the vast majority of suits as frivolous and potentially fine the plaintiff, but it's an interesting idea
CadenVanV@reddit
Every judge would combine it into a class action basically instantly.
SlickMcFav0rit3@reddit
People raised a bunch of good points about why this is a bad plan, but there is a similar tactic that has actually been used to great effect
Most companies now don't even let you sue them, you have to go through mandatory arbitration. In a lot of ways this is terrible for you because it's not a court and you can't get damages beyond a certain amount. But another way is it is advantageous. Filing for arbitration costs you nothing, and the company, by their own terms of service, is mandated to go get a third party outside arbiter. Even if the arbiter just throws the case out immediately, they do have to pay them some amount of money per case.
Someone did this to Uber a few years ago and they had to pay millions of dollars to the Association of Arbiters or whatever
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snowdrone@reddit
Nope, the suits would be rolled up and dismissed.
Far-Building3569@reddit
How could everyone file a lawsuit when some of these people are babies/toddlers lol
The_Troyminator@reddit
You expect 8 billion people to agree to don the same thing when we can’t even agree on if the dress is blue and black or white and gold?
ChickenwingKingg@reddit
I'd assume those companies have layers on a regular payroll and don't pay per case
The_Troyminator@reddit
They do.
Own_Tune_3545@reddit
As a successful pro se litigant, I think about this, a lot.
Just to add to the juice here, with just a little grit, a pro se lit can squeeze 15k in billable hours out if a law firm before pleading is even over.
AI is now very good at legal work. We the lower class could bankrupt anyone we want with this method right now.
Kange109@reddit
Lawyers will be rich.
BlueberryPersonal581@reddit
Nah let's just throw molotov at headquarters. I like where your heads at though.
flopsyplum@reddit
What makes you think everyone has access to disposable $300 at any time?
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tristand666@reddit
Except some lawyer will try to turn it into a class action and he will end up the winner.
Active-Strawberry-37@reddit
This sounds a bit “sovereign citizen” to me
cantbelieveyoumademe@reddit (OP)
Please don't v& me