A Dodge Charger EV Driver Got a Ticket for a Loud Exhaust
Posted by TripleShotPls@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 202 comments
Posted by TripleShotPls@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 202 comments
hi_im_bored13@reddit
I mean real or fake it was loud no? if I rev my engine at a stoplight or if I have speakers on the exterior playing loud revving exhaust sounds what's the functional difference?
I don't think its too far, a 911.2 GT3 with the valves open is an incredibly loud car and will be cited under nyc law at full bore, and I say this as someone who owned a 911.2 GT3, I felt it was reasonable enough to keep the valves closed in the city
nzjester420@reddit
Wtf. 76/82 db. Surely thats not right. I feel that a stupid amount of stock cars would fail.
hi_im_bored13@reddit
it is right, stock cars if you are stepping on it will fail, but keep in mind you are stuck in bumper-to-bumper traffic 99% of the time and there is little to no reason to rev. the law exists pretty much solely so people don't go making pops & bangs at midnight
outside the city there is no such regulation, you are free
SharkBaitDLS@reddit
The car is nearly inaudible from the exterior in auto drive mode, if you read the full article they just got hit because someone else was making noise in the intersection and the cop targeted the car that looked like it matched the profile.
SnikySquirrel@reddit
Smartest traffic cop
nismotigerwvu@reddit
Around 25 years ago I had a city cop write me a ticket for a noise violation (loud music) in my TTZ. I tried to be reasonable and said something like "Hey dude I get it, young guy in a red sports car with the T Tops off but I can prove it wasn't me." and then pointed to the hole in my dash where the radio used to be. I even offered to let him search the car for a hidden radio and he just marched back and wrote me a ticket. He clearly didn't expect me to show up at court and I was absolutely loaded for bear. I had statements from the manufacturer confirming the dates when I first contacted them about the warranty exchange, the dates when my radio was shipped out to them and the date when the replacement was received and installed. I also had ones from the shop that did the work (screw trying to take that dash apart) and had pictures/confirmation that no temporary replacement was installed. They also confirmed that aside from the head unit, the rest of the audio gear in the car was factory and a decade old at that point and unlikely to cause any major nuisance. The icing on the cake was when I pointed out that the cop cited an ordinance that was only applicable to residential areas from 9pm to 6am and that the address he wrote on the ticket was square in the center of a commercial area and it was 7pm anyways. The county prosecutor (I think that's who would have been present, it was the cop and a suit of some sort) went into a meltdown and accused me of presenting false evidence and called me a "smart assed prick". The judge just took a sip coffee, told him to pipe down and then apologized on behalf of the entire city and threw out the damn ticket and told the cop to "use his head" next time.
Tratix@reddit
What is a TTZ?
nismotigerwvu@reddit
Twin Turbo Z, or more specifically a Twin Turbo trim Z32 generation 300ZX.
hi_im_bored13@reddit
They can say what they want, I'd trust them a bit more if they didn't have a prior infraction, I do hope it gets picked up by court because it would be an interesting case
Droopy1592@reddit
Prior infarction was in an ice car
hi_im_bored13@reddit
I don't think that changes that he has a history of doing it
Droopy1592@reddit
So that makes him more than likely guilty huh
You watch Fox News lol
hi_im_bored13@reddit
No, that is up to the court to decide on each case, but recidivism is a real thing
No
The fact is that he has a prior infraction though?
atomictyler@reddit
and the fact also includes it's a stock EV. how about you use all the facts and not the ones that are convenient for you?
hi_im_bored13@reddit
The second part of the citation was public nuisance for noise, the stock charger is perfectly capable of that, not sure what the point is here?
Droopy1592@reddit
Cops give random infractions for bullshit at times. They aren’t infallible
So previous car is ice new is electric
So his exhaust is too loud? Have you heard the car? It’s literally impossible.
I guess every man accused of inappropriate contact at work is automatically guilty if they have a prior claim
Wait we have some of those and they were proven bullshit claims
And now they refuse to work near women because false claims
And people wonder why society is collapsing.
SharkBaitDLS@reddit
I trust them mainly just based off the fact that it’s a massive pain to actually make the car rev loudly. You’d have to pull up to the light, put the car in track mode, put the car in park or neutral, then rev it. Even if you launch the car in track mode it won’t be that loud because the car has no simulated shifting so it doesn’t actually “rev up” until you’re going quite fast.
There’s a lot of stuff that adds up with the owner’s story and not a lot that adds up with the cop’s given all that.
hi_im_bored13@reddit
Yeah fair enough
Guac_in_my_rarri@reddit
The video doesn't feature a Db meter so the Cop is just measuring gy their opinion/ annoyance to the car.
The ticket wouldn't stand in court if they did not measure anything. Waste of time and money.
hi_im_bored13@reddit
Minnesota doesn't have a hard Db regulation, just that it needs to be excessive or unusual noise, same with the city ordinance
I think it depends on if the generator on the charger falls under "similar device" to muffler bypass etc. given it exists with the sole purpose of making louder noises.
But I agree that its a waste of time and money considering there is no court appearance or anything, I think you could reason excessive noise from the fratzonic system under their regs, there's no point in ticketing if you aren't going to do it
copy_run_start@reddit
I would argue that there is no exhaust noise on an EV and so this wouldn't apply. At that point, any EV would be in violation for not having a muffler, whether it has a sound device or not.
But I'm sure there's some other noise law or ordinance or whatever that they could still hit EV folks with, same as someone playing loud music through a speaker.
hi_im_bored13@reddit
I mean I'd argue the exact opposite, the system in the charger is literally called the "Fratzonic Chambered Exhaust" and is clearly designed to emulate the exhaust note of an ICE vehicle
I think its clear that the law needs to be updated but they were hit with public nuisance regardless so I assume one or the other would stick
Hope they get a court date because it would be fun to see how it plays out
copy_run_start@reddit
I feel like the law's too specific since, at one point, it even gets into vehicles requiring a device to prevent those exhaust gasses from entering the cabin, all in 169.69. While I understand there's a "spirit" of the law, I wonder what the outcome is if this applies to vehicles equipped with speakers that simulate exhaust noise.
For example, could a 13 year old on an electric scooter on the street with a Bluetooth speaker that plays race car sounds be hit with a loud muffler ticket? Functionally it's the same thing, and they're both purposefully being used to simulate an ICE exhaust. Both are considered motor vehicles.
Yeah absolutely, curious to see what happens here!
TurboFucked@reddit
Usually codes are written to be broad and non-specific. So "excessive vehicle noise" not "loud exhaust", that way it can be a catch-all.
But this specific scenario probably falls under general noise ordinances, making the scooter and irrelevant detail.
copy_run_start@reddit
This law is specifically for muffler / exhaust noise for motor vehicles. The scooter would fall under the definition of motor vehicle, which is a self propelled vehicle that travels on roadways.
huffalump1@reddit
I mean, if it was OEM, it's highly unlikely that it violates any state laws.
Not to mention, a cop can give you a ticket for whatever they feel like. Arguing is for court. Don't talk to police; talk to a lawyer.
Raiderx87@reddit
Plenty of people in California got tickets and even got N mode removed (opens the exhaust valves)from their Hyundai N model vehicles.
nekmatu@reddit
Cop never turned in the ticket if there’s lot court date. He probably got back in his car googled electric dodge challenger / charger realized what he did and just didn’t turn it in.
hi_im_bored13@reddit
Plenty of stock cars that are well above state limits, e.g. a 3RS is 108db
Yeah, agreed above this is an issue and if it continues its a total waste of time and money
Guac_in_my_rarri@reddit
Its the abs faith attitude: fuck you that's why. Or my favorite fuck your day because mine sucks too.
Imo, the best cops are the ones that approached everything with an understanding that things aren't always on purpose. The intent of the video in question absolutely was but they're at a God damn gas station. There's no expectation of quiet at one.
Excessive noise regs that aren't defined are a damn waste of time.
hi_im_bored13@reddit
I agree, but
The ticket was for revving/noise leaving an intersection, he's just getting the ticket at the gas station
Guac_in_my_rarri@reddit
Yeah that's fair enough.
My point still stands tho, if it's the intersection at a gas station, there's no real expectations for quiet.
AdCareless9063@reddit
The system in this car has been measured at 126 dB. That's deafeningly loud.
Guac_in_my_rarri@reddit
If a cop doesn't measure no proof. That's the thing we are talking about not the OEM measured spec. That's a different topic, albeit stupid of dodge/stellantis to make it 126db.
FordsFavouriteTowel@reddit
This is just stupid. There’s still an expectation of not causing excessive noise pollution, gas station intersection or not.
TurboFucked@reddit
Mine did. In a stock exhaust four-banger Celica.
Laws vary wildly from area to area, but where I lived, the law was written in such a way that it was just the officer's opinion of what constituted excessive and the noise could be any sort of vehicle noise: exhaust, stereo, tires, squeaky belt, brake pads on the wear indicator.
2BlueZebras@reddit
Trooper here. My state had case law saying a decibel meter is NOT needed to cite for an overly loud exhaust. The judge ruled it's ridiculous to expect police to carry around every type of testing equipment when the layman can go, "That's way too loud."
mkbcity@reddit
if its ridiculous for a single cop to carry objective measuring devices for every type of violation then they shouldn't enforce every type of violation. does every cop have a k9 or is a dre? no.
Guac_in_my_rarri@reddit
What state if I can be nosey?
MichiganGeezer@reddit
Imagine that cop justifying the citation once you bring in proof that it's electric.
Guac_in_my_rarri@reddit
Stupidity comes in and shapes and sizes. This one happened to be in the shape of a cop.
GearhedMG@reddit
It's a pretty common shape.
themokah@reddit
are you a lawyer or just talking out your ass?
Guac_in_my_rarri@reddit
It's a state by state thing. My friends have gotten excessive noise tickets and they've been tossed out in Illinois. Specifically because there's no db measurement and Hearing is subjective.
To answer your comment: I'm not a lawyer nor am I talking out my ass. One of the guys who got a ticket above is a lawyer.
rosshettel@reddit
Yeah like 10 years ago I fought a loud exhaust ticket with my own decibel readings and they threw it out because the cop didn't measure anything and so failed to provide burden of proof
Guac_in_my_rarri@reddit
And the saying goes "you can beat the time but not the ride."
It's sad that there is this saying.
NotFastEnoughYet@reddit
Not tryna be a smartass, but... do you mean 991.2 GT3?
hi_im_bored13@reddit
I did, my bad!
NotFastEnoughYet@reddit
Oops, I guess I didn't scroll far enough, just saw someone else asked that. Might want to edit the post if you're tired of people like us lol.
TurboFucked@reddit
The dual-mode exhaust on a Mustang GT is fucking loud, probably louder in track mode than most loud aftermarket exhausts. Not quite pype bombs loud, but not that far off.
bobovicus@reddit
I’ve had loud cars in MN for 10+ years now with zero issues. If that’s your reason for choosing not to live somewhere that’s, odd I guess?You’d be hard pressed to find a state that doesn’t have abusable laws.
Radiant_Waves@reddit
I’m assuming when they said “for a reason,” that reason is because it’s cold in Minnesota. Some arbitrary noise ordinance would be the dumbest reason to avoid a state I’ve ever heard.
mopar39426ml@reddit
I seem to recall stories of stock Veloster/Elantra Ns getting noise tickets when they first released.
I'm honestly surprised there wasn't anything for the 500 Abarth 13 years ago... Depending on what state inspector I go to they make it hard to pass my state inspection with a stock car.
Terrh@reddit
Same law here.
If you get an exhaust ticket in an EV here, and the cop shows up and says that in his opinion it was too loud, you lose, because that's the definition of breaking the law.
locked-in-4-so-long@reddit
You only came here to brag about your car
hi_im_bored13@reddit
I was just giving a real world example in that stock vehicles can be excessively loud, a 3RS does 108dB, it can be too loud even for the louder laguna track days, definitely too loud for a city, whether something is stock/road-legal is not a good measure for quiet
breeves001@reddit
Do you mean a 991.2 GT3?
hi_im_bored13@reddit
Yeah, my bad!
BrandonNeider@reddit
Nah he got the 2012 911.2 GT3
BWFTW@reddit
I am a big supporter of noise regulations and enforced noise regulations. But it has to have an actual number in my mind. Being up to discretion is insane.
Ihate_reddit_app@reddit
I've been pulled over for my stock exhaust where this guy got pulled over too. The locals in the area get really upset and constantly call the police for noise complaints and the cops control the area pretty heavily.
There are also a ton of bars and people drunk driving around there so they probably used it as an easy excuse to check the driver.
DaveCootchie@reddit
I'm from Minnesota and it must be a city specific thing. Cause the amount of straight pipped pickups and cars (chargers and G35/37s specifically) is annoying. I appreciate a good exhaust note but cutting the mufflers off your V6 and doing pulls in neighborhoods ain't it.
dumahim@reddit
There's may be other factors at play and/or cop was fishing for something else or having a bad day, or the driver wasn't being polite so this is the cop's way of getting back at him and this was the best he could come up with.
I had a loud car in the past and not only did I never get pulled over for it, when I did get pulled over for the window tint a few times, the exhaust was never mentioned.
jrileyy229@reddit
And you lived in stillwater Minnesota? If not, then this anecdotal "evidence" means nothing.
maniamgood0@reddit
I've driven a car with a truly obnoxious exhaust around Stillwater for many hours without trouble. More anecdotes for ya.
dumahim@reddit
Well, 1, I was referring to the Minnesota part of the person I was replying to since I do live in Minnesota. Have for my whole life and I've been through many places, including Stillwater. 2, even if I did live in Stillwater, it'd still be anecdotal. I didn't realize someone I wasn't replying to wanted legally binding evidence. My apologies.
hi_im_bored13@reddit
https://stillwatertownshipmn.gov/vertical/sites/%7B44993CD9-4A26-46F5-A42D-7C1D05E1B8BA%7D/uploads/Ordinance_155_-_Exaust_Brakes.pdf
I don't see any specific measurement, seems same as the state reg with the exception of banning Jake brakes
but even if I had a louder car there's places to have fun, I wouldn't risk it in a not conservative but more conservative town with older folks, thats how you tracks banned and why car enthusiasts get a bad reputation between older folks
like he points out in the video that the previous noise offense was with a gas car, does it really matter? point is it wasn't a one-off thing, different officer tagged them for the same actions
personally I think the exhaust was in sport/race/etc. mode and they were having some fun at the stop light, I don't trust that multiple tiktokers/videographers/etc. don't have one recording of the event.
Hypnotist30@reddit
With a proper exhaust, Jake brakes aren't that loud. You only notice them on trucks with large engines and a loud exhaust to begin with. I regularly operate trucks with jakes and proper mufflers & the noise difference isn't significant. If the jakes are causing the problem, the truck is going to be excessively loud when the driver is in the throttle as well.
I hate blanket bans like this.
maveric101@reddit
As they say, "this is why we can't have nice things." Shitty people ruin stuff for everyone.
velociraptorfarmer@reddit
Problem is that most of Minnesota's main population centers sit at the bottom of valleys with steep grades into them, and dumbasses blasting down the highways with their jake brakes in full song with no exhaust for decades pissed everyone off enough that they banned them years ago.
hi_im_bored13@reddit
It's another one of those regulations surrounding cars/trucks/etc. where the intentions are good and the knowledge + execution is severely lacking
slapdashbr@reddit
The sound feature wasn't even on according to the article.
This is a typical cop literally making shit up to write a ticket.
HtmlHonda@reddit
My buddy used to say that his car is no louder than his dad's stock Harley.
pearljamman010@reddit
Shit, I got a 90+ dB alert on my Apple Watch today just listening to music in my office (wfh.) Wonder if an asshole cop would give me a ticket for that.
skooma_consuma@reddit
PA also recently passed the SLEEP act which just says an exhaust cannot be loud, but also fails to give any definition of what loud is or how to test the loudness. So it's entirely up to the discretion of the cop.
neverfearIamhere@reddit
Ah yeah Minnesota sucks so hard...because we like peace and quiet? Haha.
bgarza18@reddit
Maybe it’s the vaguely defined, broadly applicable law that was mentioned?
neverfearIamhere@reddit
As if the US isn't full of bullshit like this.
willpc14@reddit
That's not exactly a compelling defense
neverfearIamhere@reddit
Compelling defense for what? I'm not trying to defend myself in a court of law haha.
bgarza18@reddit
We are discussing laws, actually.
neverfearIamhere@reddit
Oooookay?
hi_im_bored13@reddit
Where did I say that?
I have no opinions on Minnesota or Stillwater but they could do with defining "peace and quiet" as the current regulation is vague and subjective. Examples, Cali (state) & NYC (city) regs
This is like the reddit equivalent to that twitter post where they go "You can say "I like pancakes" and somebody will say "So you hate waffles" and its like man when did I hate waffles thats a whole new sentence
neverfearIamhere@reddit
Well you did say you wouldn't live here just because we haven't defined a specific DB limit?
Seems wild. Where do you live?
hi_im_bored13@reddit
No I just said I don't live there for a reason, reason being it generally doesn't suit my needs, work, life, etc., there isn't much of a tech center for starters
I don't care for peace and quiet but I do want structure and this regulation is one example of where they don't provide the structure I'd expect
NYC, previously cali, both of which have strictly defined noise limits and are major tech centers
neverfearIamhere@reddit
No single place is ever going to have perfect laws.
There's always going to be some bullshit catchall law that people don't agree with.
Trust me, lack of structure is not something I'd associate with Minnesota. Passive aggressiveness? Yes alot. Hah.
hi_im_bored13@reddit
No, but some areas are better and some are worse
I mean we have an example right above, its all relative, I would absolutely argue Minnesota has less structure than NYC, as do most areas in the country
Is NYC ideal? Absolutely not, but its closer to my ideal than Minnesota for sure
neverfearIamhere@reddit
Is there something about NYC that makes it feel so structured? I'm just genuinely curious. I've never lived in a city bigger than Tulsa.
stoned-autistic-dude@reddit
The law needs to be specific bc arbitrary rules lead to arbitrary enforcement. City needs to get sued and define reasonable with a dB limit.
dont_wear_a_C@reddit
Wrong hill to die on today, mate
neverfearIamhere@reddit
What do you mean? Just having some conversation.
blackhawk867@reddit
When I'm at track days, I always have to brace myself when I give GT3s a point by because at full bore they are painfully loud when they are right next to you.
bobovicus@reddit
I’ve had loud cars in MN for 10+ years now with zero issues. If that’s your reason for choosing not to live somewhere that’s pretty wild. You’d be hard pressed to find a state that doesn’t have abusable laws. Oh well. Have fun with your smog checks!
HeavyDutyForks@reddit
Lol, someone in the courthouse must've realized an EV doesn't have an exhaust system
Of course, I'm surprised they didn't run it through anyways. The system has never seemed to have a problem wasting everyone's time before
jrileyy229@reddit
It has multiple simulated exhaust modes though. If we're being honest, the dude probably put it in race mode and made a bunch of noise at the light... That's what people do when they get a bunch of performance cars together for a "cruise"
HeavyDutyForks@reddit
The citation he was given only mentions vehicle mufflers the way its written
Which is something that guy's vehicle and all EVs don't have
jrileyy229@reddit
No, the citation also says "loud exhaust" as well as public nuisance. Its in the video, you can see the citation. The officer could have used better verbiage for sure, it's still all about the noise level.
While I already know it doesn't have an actual exhaust either, a device simulating a loud exhaust is within the spirit of the law.
It looks like these guys are out "making content"... Why not post the entire video of the event then? Well, likely because a stop light is the perfect time to make content with everyone around looking at an EV making hellcat noises and being confused.
mkbcity@reddit
its a speaker playing car sounds. the content of the sound is irrelevant, the source of the sound is.
jrileyy229@reddit
Well no... The same as if you have the windows down slamming bass at 120db. Still being annoying. The statute covers any vehicle making excessive noise.
mkbcity@reddit
if he would be charged differently playing music from the radio then it was the wrong charge originally.
jrileyy229@reddit
No... The statute covers noise created by or from a vehicle
HeavyDutyForks@reddit
I don't doubt the guy was probably being a nuisance. But, I would love to see this get taken to court to see what happens.
The officer can only write citations based off of the way the law is written. The way its written on the books only talks about mufflers and exhaust systems.
I would think the public nuisance would definitely stick, but Idk about the exhaust system ticket though
jrileyy229@reddit
Okay... Now look at 169.69.3. it's strictly noise, no reference to mufflers
HeavyDutyForks@reddit
Well the officer should've ticketed him for that instead of what he did cite him for
hi_im_bored13@reddit
Would a loud sound generator fall under "similar device" though?
HeavyDutyForks@reddit
In a statute labeled Mufflers I would think that a "similar device" would mean any exhaust bypass system similar to cutouts based off the above sentence
But, IANAL
hi_im_bored13@reddit
I mean yeah but the fratzonic & muffler bypass accomplish the same thing in making the car louder, and the citation says loud exhaust + public nuisance as well
Still a waste of resources regardless if they didn't give him a court date
Seref15@reddit
It would have to be a court case to determine what a "similar device" is in the eyes of the law. Because its entirely open to interpretation.
Are bypasses and cutouts similar to Fratzonic in that they both achieve loud noise? Yes.
Are bypasses and cutouts similar to Fratzonic in that they both exist to defeat mufflers? No.
Letter vs Spirit question. The law is written very specifically around gaseous exhaust systems, and I think if there was a hearing there's a good chance the defendant would win based on that. It's hard to say the spirit of the law is "no loud noises" when it deals so specifically with the ways in which loud noises are generated.
But trials cost money and municipalities can update their laws without these types of hearings, the circumstances just need to make the news (like now).
HeavyDutyForks@reddit
I hope they do and I hope there's an update to this. I'd like to see how it plays out in court if he chooses to fight it
mkbcity@reddit
im pretty sure its considered music from the car. its no different than sound from a speaker, the content of the sound is irrelevant.
HermannZeGermann@reddit
This is an interesting statute, which certainly didn't take EVs into account, unless EVs don't fall under the statutory definition of "motor vehicle."
On its face, every EV is non-compliant with this statute, because they don't have any muffler at all ("Every motor vehicle shall at all times be equipped with a muffler in good working order..."). But of course, EVs shouldn't ever receive a ticket for this, because EVs don't need a muffler. There is no exhaust and no exhaust noise to be blended.
But a simulated exhaust mode, by itself, doesn't violate the statute, only muffler cutout, bypasses, or similar device. But you cannot cutout or bypass a muffler if that muffler doesn't exist in the first place. A simulated exhaust doesn't bypass anything; it simply creates sound.
On the whole, I don't see how this situation can violate this MN muffler statute as written. It certainly needs to be updated. And the driver may be cited for an excessive noise violation, separate from the MN Transportation Code.
atomictyler@reddit
seems it would be something that falls under whatever loud stereo systems fall under.
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adrr@reddit
That happens all the time. I checked for six months on my ticket and it never got case number. Year and half rolls around and I get a mail that i haven't paid my fine and now its 10x the amount, and if i don't pay it in 30 days i'll have an arrest warrant.
Unlucky_Situation@reddit
In PA, you have 10 days to plea guilty and pay the fine.
You have to specifically plea not guilty to get a court date.
If you just don't pay the fine and dont plea not guilty, youll have an arrest warrent issued.
So If you didnt plea not guilty, thats on you.
mkbcity@reddit
wow that is crazy. in ontario its supposed to be 14 days but you can still choose an option a month or more out, depending on how the court moves. if the cop fails to file nothing happens until/less they do. in any case a simple fine even if you dont do anything wont land you in jail. that is fucked.
adrr@reddit
California you send in ticket that you want to contest and they assign a case and a date. You call up the court to find out when it is. If you don’t show, you lose and have to pay the fine. There is no notice they assigned you court date and it’s calling up the court clerk every week till they assign you.
Mine case was a solid win because it was expired tabs. 2 days expired, I had sent the payment in a month prior waiting for tabs because California dmv is slow as fuck. Most cities have an informal 30 days grace because of this. After six months I figured the cop tossed the ticket because I had no court date.
10000Didgeridoos@reddit
That or the trooper knew he just said something really fucking stupid, was too embarrassed and fragile of a man to admit it, and never actually filed citation hoping bro would just pay it and make it go away.
Lol imagine having the judge in a traffic court asking questions to the trooper about this. He'd look like a clown.
iWish_is_taken@reddit
Plot twist… cop loves EV’s but is a purest and hates the idea of a fake muffler noises on EV’s.
glizzytwister@reddit
The cop probably realized he did something embarrassingly stupid and just never put the ticket on the docket. He probably didn't want to get chewed out by the judge.
fasthall@reddit
I won't be surprised if it's just not entered in the court database yet. The court system is very slow in many places. A simple speeding ticket can sometimes take 2 months to enter the system just weeks before due.
Glum-Accountant-9801@reddit
The cop probably just don’t like fake engine noise
Ps3godly@reddit
Loud exhaust in NY is just a fix it ticket. When I was a new driver with a dumb loud car I’d pull into the barracks lot and change the muffler right there. Trooper would come out I’d start the car trooper would sign off the ticket and go back inside. Then I’d toss the cherry bomb right back on. Did that probably ten times before I got a new car and put cutouts on it. Kids have it so easy nowadays, lol
0peRightBehindYa@reddit
I mean, I can get a ticket for loud music, so what's the difference?
Although if it's just the stock "exhaust" noise, that cop was just being a dildo and I'm sure this ticket will get tossed in court.
stoned-autistic-dude@reddit
There is no law on the books so the legislature needs to add a law. Otherwise it doesn’t make sense as applied.
0peRightBehindYa@reddit
Ok, see? This is why we have so much government control over our lives. People need a damn law for every little fuckin detail.
Odd-Refrigerator-425@reddit
Would you rather laws be applied by the cop/judge's arbitrary interpretation of the spirit of the law, or the actual written law?
stoned-autistic-dude@reddit
That’s… how laws work, man. It’s so they can’t charge you with a stupid law like this. Stop being ridiculous.
TowJammer212@reddit
Its not about the type of sound they were playing its about the volume it was played at. I can guarantee I know the type of people driving a EV Charger.
The Drive and "clickbait titles"...shocker.
meuria132@reddit
thats nuts
AdShoddy7599@reddit
It’s loud and annoying. I like cool car sounds, but most people don’t want to hear it when they’re out and about trying to chill. The EV shit is even more egregious. At least ICE exhaust is necessary (although the people who mod it to be deafeningly loud are cringe). This shit is literally just a speaker being loud and annoying for the sake of it.
10000Didgeridoos@reddit
except if you bothered to read before commenting the speaker was off due to low battery and the cop heard an ICE car making noise and blamed it on the muscle-car-lookalike
AdShoddy7599@reddit
That doesn’t change what I said at all
bigbura@reddit
I guess this begs the question; 'Did Dodge do their homework before exposing themselves to possible legal blowback?'
IOW, did Dodge set the volume of said exhaust noises-making system under the legal limits nationwide? If not, could one argue they were sold an illegal to operate vehicle, and take Dodge to court?
TurboFucked@reddit
The Federal requirements are a joke. I don't recall the exact procedure for testing, but it's roughly, full throttle third gear from 20-45 mph for manuals, and enough throttle to do 20-45 over a certain distance for automatics. So manufactures generally give manuals a taller 3rd to slow it down for the test and keep the valves closed on the automatics during light acceleration at lower speeds.
Tons of factory systems break local noise ordinances. Since many can go as high as 95dB in their loudest setting. Famously it happens in NYC frequently, since they have automated systems for enforcement.
Manufactures do give warnings that "track mode" is for race tracks, not public roads. But if enough people complain about the fact that stock cars are getting loud noise tickets, they might start making all cars whisper quiet and remove valved exhausts.
SharkBaitDLS@reddit
You have to put the car into track mode (which puts a disclaimer of not for road use on the screen) for it to actually make a truly loud noise. In auto drive mode it’s no louder than any normal muffled car and in sport it’s about as loud as a normal sports car.
bigbura@reddit
So Dodge applied some legal/common sense to this and the tickets seem well-deserved.
Thank you for this.
SharkBaitDLS@reddit
If you read the article the owner claims they weren’t in that mode at all, and the cop just targeted them after another car did a hard launch out of the light. Whether that’s true or not I can’t say, but to make noise at a stop with the car you have to really go out of your way. The car has to be in track mode and in park or neutral to rev loudly. The fact that the ticket didn’t get filed properly suggests the owner may be telling the truth.
atomictyler@reddit
big ask for folks on reddit. they'd rather argue back and forth instead of reading the article for the answer.
strongmanass@reddit
No because it's not necessary to have the fratzonic sound on to operate the car.
Averyphotog@reddit
The system likely has different sound modes, some louder than others. An idiot could be using an extremely loud “race mode” in a quiet neighborhood and deserve the noise violation.
bigbura@reddit
So the manual and menus say 'off-road use only', saving Dodge the legal hassles? I could see that.
10000Didgeridoos@reddit
It was on low battery mode at the time that turns the fake engine sounds pretty much off anyway.
TurboFucked@reddit
Dodge literally calls the system in these EVs the "Fraztonic Chambered Exhaust." And it's designed to emit noise in such a way as to trick people into thinking the vehicle has a V8. Apparently it succeeded!
This argument is disingenuous and makes me think the subject of the article is lying about everything else. They were probably revving the shit out of the car and being a general jackass, then put it into quiet mode when they saw the officer. The fact that the driver has received previous citations for similar reasons just adds to the pile.
As the article points out, stock exhaust systems can and do violate local ordinances. The Federal tests for exhaust noise limitations are pretty lax and are easy enough to game. The local ordinances are just usually a straight dB limit at a certain distance - very cut-and-dry.
Mindfulmanners@reddit
This could of been avoided if he didn’t get an EV Charger.
No-Association3616@reddit
GOOD!
JDjPYp1htjDxlqVymM7q@reddit
Shouldn’t have done the digital muffler delete
shamiltheghost@reddit
All the bs tickets by mail in any state are a tax on the less fortunate; speeding, noise, etc.
CombinationBitter889@reddit
Car exhausts have simply gotten out of hand. Everyone wants to be heard/stand out but they choose the most unbearable exhaust notes.
The aftermarket manufacturers aren’t helping either. They prioritize decibels over sound quality. Look at Borla and Corsa, the most popular aftermarket brands out there. The Extreme and ATAK systems sound like pure garbage. Brappity, clappity, rasp. With revs it is genuinely painful to listen to.
Most consumers hate the tone from these high decibel systems that they resort to deleting mufflers and resonators and going the “modern straight pipe route.” Again, this sounds like pure ass on 99% of setups.
And then there are the guys who try to force a muscular sound (essentially V8 pushrod) on modern engines. The Mustang Coyote is a prime example. Owners go full exhaust with catless long tubes hoping it makes it sound mean. Nothing but unbearable brap, brap, brap 🤷♂️.
Not everyone can have a Mopar exhaust note. People need to accept that.
WEASELexe@reddit
I'm happy with my 4cylinder turbo. It's got a downpipe and exhaust as well as an external waste gate and it sounds great untill I'm boosting hard enough to open the waste gate at which point it's very loud and screeching.
Imaginary_Act_3956@reddit
OPEL CORSA.........
CombinationBitter889@reddit
What exactly are you talking about?
hydrochloriic@reddit
Ooookay? I don’t disagree, but this is an EV. This isn’t an owner’s installed exhaust. This isn’t a modified system. This is (technically) the Federally-required pedestrian alert noise, as installed by the manufacturer.
CombinationBitter889@reddit
Kind of ridiculous isn’t it? An EV shouldn’t be making noise. It doesn’t have an internal combustion engine 😂. Like I said, car exhaust culture has gotten out of hand.
hydrochloriic@reddit
I mean, they’re required to make noise to be legal to sell in the US. Sure they aren’t required to make fake exhaust noises, but there’s very few car enthusiasts that would say that engine & exhaust sound isn’t part of a car’s character. As Dodge was targeting sales to enthusiasts…? Makes sense to me.
CombinationBitter889@reddit
You’re missing the point along with Dodge. An EV isn’t a traditional ICE. They don’t have exhaust. Hence they do not need to be making any type of exhaust/combustion noise. Dodge’s consumers absolutely hate the fake exhaust noise on the EV. I don’t think that is an industry secret.
hydrochloriic@reddit
Dodge’s consumers hate that it’s a Charger that doesn’t have a 17.8L turbo & supercharged V8 that makes less power for $5/mile of fuel consumption. They hate the I6TT Hurricane version as well, because it’s not a V8. There’s a reason they made a massive social media shout around putting an objectively worse V8 back into the RAM trucks- even the people that buy them admit the Hurricane is a better engine.
Dodge knows that their traditional consumer base would hate this car no matter what, so they tried to aim for new enthusiasts that wanted to go EV but didn’t lose the experience of an ICE vehicle. Did they miss their mark? Probably. But to call it a mistake is wrong, they tried to appeal to a market that’s hesitant to consider EVs because they feel they (rightly IMO) lack soul, knowing their current market would hate the thing for any reason anyway.
CombinationBitter889@reddit
Smartest thing Stellantis has done is bring back the Hemi. Many American consumers are sentimental toward the pushrod V8. The Gen 3 Hemi captures that sentiment perfectly. From performance to sound it is an absolute blast from the past.
It was a major mistake to axe it and make a sharp turn toward EV. Absolutely idiotic considering the customer base. The Hurricane hate is unjustified (outside of the reliability aspect). I think consumers will come around to it. Especially once they’ve what it can do with full on PCM recalibration.
DrunkenReindeer@reddit
"The Extreme and ATAK systems sound like pure garbage. Brappity, clappity, rasp. With revs it is genuinely painful to listen to."
This x1000
I take my old 3V out for a spin every few weeks. It's offroad H and Borla Stinger setup is (controllable) music to my ears. Without fail, there will be some brap brap brap coyote go past me at full bore with Corse Extremes and it just sounds like ass.
CombinationBitter889@reddit
I hear a new clapped out coyote every single day. It’s like an epidemic 😂. It goes beyond the coyote though. Imports are making a major comeback with the fart cannon exhausts. It’s just sad.
NaturalOrdinary3240@reddit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5snHQyDvm2k - A POST PUNK TIM BURNTON FILM HALLOWEEN STYLE EDIT
ProfessorGimpsuit@reddit
That fake exhaust on an EV has to be the dumbest thing I've ever seen or heard
zeno0771@reddit
In Ohio, you can be cited for speeding even if you weren't(PDF); you just need to look like you were speeding.
In North Carolina, you can be cited for offenses that aren't even offenses--and subsequent searches of the vehicle are still admissible.
24 states and Washington DC all have asset-forfeiture laws on the books that require a preponderance of evidence at most; more than half of those simply require probable cause.
...and that's just the legal stuff.
I know everyone tries to avoid rustling the blue jimmies these days but if someone is basically told they can do no wrong, they'll start to behave as such.
white_urkel@reddit
Cops being stupid as fuck? Now I've heard everything...
hoppyending@reddit
I have no idea if this guy is telling the truth or not, but something similar happened to me 20+ years ago.
I had a silver Mk4 GTI 1.8T with a big turbo and a Techtonics exhaust in the early to mid 2000s. Admittedly, it was loud at full throttle, but reasonable if you drove normally. I pulled up to a traffic light beside a silver EP3 Civic SiR. He launches it out of the light and speeds away, assuming I want to race. I drive away normally and a block or so later I'm being pulled over.
The officer in this story sounds exactly the same. I explained that it was the Civic hatch, not me, that made a bunch of noise and took off (the two cars look very similar from a distance). He proceeds to yell at me, call me a liar, and wrote me several tickets which the courts later tossed out or reduced.
Bombadilo_drives@reddit
Valved exhausts are such an amazing invention. There was a good 15 years there where any modded import was a "gangster" to the police.
I was once pulled over in rush hour traffic in my 4" exhaust WRX, and I stopped at a gas station a couple hundred yards up because the road had very little shoulder. Cop came RUNNING to my window, screaming at me, hand on his gun "WHY DIDN'T YOU STOP!? WHY DIDN'T YOU STOP!?"
I just told him it was so he wouldn't get smoked by cars since there was no shoulder and he still acted like I was a drug lord he'd just busted
baddeafboy@reddit
Judge would be looking at dumb cop!!!! 😂😂😂😂
avboden@reddit
As funny as this is...it does sound like the driver is a bit of a toolbag himself and had a history, lol.
harperrb@reddit
Local laws override industry or national requirements. Gotta know your local laws.
SnikySquirrel@reddit
The car was stock
harperrb@reddit
Local laws override industry and national standards.
Being stock doesn't change the scenario.
willpc14@reddit
How would the car have been sold in MN if it didn't comply with MN laws?
Noobasdfjkl@reddit
Loud mode on just about any modern sports car with a valves exhaust will blow basically every sound limit of every urban area. They’re able to be sold because the car defaults to quiet/normal mode when you cycle the ignition.
Just because the car is able to be sold in a state doesn’t mean it strictly conforms to all regulations all the time in every scenario.
EpicLegendX@reddit
How would the car have been sold in the US if it didn’t pass the national standards?
harperrb@reddit
Because local ordinances override national standards. Again. Reading Comp is tough.
LOCAL ORDINANCES OVERRIDE INDUSTRY AND NATIONAL STANDARDS
LegendaryOutlaw@reddit
I watched one of these youtube reviews of the car and the 'exhaust' speakers in the back bumper are legitimately loud. Not just loud for an EV, but as loud or almost as loud as a V8 Challenger. It's also an option you can easily turn off in the settings.
I'm gonna take a wild guess that the teens/20-something boys in the video KNOW how loud their EV's 'exhaust speakers' are, and were revving it at a gas station, disturbing everyone around them, and were cited, rightly.
They can try to argue that technically it doesn't have mufflers or an exhaust, but it's really not that different from blasting your 4 12" Subwoofers in a neighborhood, you're making ALOT of noise.
-Suzuka-@reddit
126-decibel is the max. Keep in mind OSHA says, "exposure over 85 decibels can damage your hearing."
Source: https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a63141971/dodge-charger-daytona-fratzonic-exhaust-sound/
DracoDragonite@reddit
ca cop state reffed my stock gr corolla. I responded by having the ticket dismissed and installing a much louder aftermarket exhaust
cops can be very questionable to put it politely sometimes
RuprectGern@reddit
The author has the final take quite wrong. This event has nothing to do with noise restrictions in municipalities. Its about the police, comprised of ego driven LEOs who don't respect the public or listen to reason.
The phrase "I'm not going to argue with you" is all you need to know about the mindset. Every engagement is a conflict.
Also, not for nothing, these cops are under pressure by their bosses) to keep their stats up. so there is pressure to make a predictable amount of contacts and tickets in a predictable period. So if they get you pulled over, its in their interest to write a ticket and get the shit over with. I've heard of some cops say that they write the most tickets the first week of the month to get them out of the way. apocryphal? who knows? although believable.
solo118@reddit
I do not know about Stillwater, but in NYC the cops only crack down when the Mayor or some high up authority tells them to do so. I see it once in a while coming out of the Hugh L Carey tunnel, tons of cops lined up pulling over anybody and everybody for silly stuff like tints, missing front plate, expired inspection stickers etc.
This guy was just unlucky, but to be fair there is no exhaust but the loud noises the car emits is similar to a loud radio or something along those lines which is why he got a disturbing the peace type of ticket. Either way, he has a good case for dismissal for his loud "exhaust" but would likely be on the hook for the other 2 which sucks
Ka-Chow-mf@reddit
I mean he is cited for a loud exhaust and there is no exhaust to begin with so.
DerangedGinger@reddit
Cops aren't always the smartest. I got hit in a roundabout by a guy changing lanes IN THE ROUNDABOUT and the cop cited me because I should have stopped for him. His superior had to fix the report and explain to a cop driving around in a big cop SUV how a roundabout actually works.
RUB_MY_RHUBARB@reddit
Stupidity is probably a job requirement at this point.
PartneredEthicalSlut@reddit
I was about to say. I've met many, many police officers while working in the ER. I don't think I'd ever refer to one of them as smart
DerangedGinger@reddit
Literally is. https://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/story?id=95836
Guac_in_my_rarri@reddit
A cop almost hit mr while texting and driving. He pulled me over and told me to be more careful.
m0dern_baseBall@reddit
Was crossing as a pedestrian early in the morning once and I see a cop blow through the red light with his face down on the screen. He must’ve not expected pedestrians that early
Guac_in_my_rarri@reddit
Do as I say not as I do.
Fucking hypocrites
RunninOnMT@reddit
Random anecdote/my favorite texting while driving story:
A former coworker and friend was driving home from work in his car, a pristine S14 240sx, unmolested by crazy mods. He was on a road notorious for big traffic jams and indeed found himself at the end of one such jam shortly after leaving work.
So he grabbed his phone to fire off a text or two while stopped. Seeing movement from the corner of his eye, he noticed a motorcycle cop on the shoulder, looking at him. The cop flashed his lights, and my friend, still at the end of the traffic jam, pulled onto the shoulder to receive his ticket.
Seconds later, someone in a Mercedes ML, likely looking at their phone, barreled in at about 40 mph, completely missing that there was a long line of stopped cars. Obliterating the car that had, up until a few seconds earlier, been directly in front of my friend’s car.
The cop looked at my friend and said “don’t do it again, I have to deal with this” and let him go.
Guac_in_my_rarri@reddit
That's one hell of a story. Funny how things work out.
ls7eveen@reddit
Are they ever?
Designfanatic88@reddit
Lmao the driver got confused. Nobody cares where the sound is coming from. Whether it’s your speakers or an exhaust. There’s no reason for it to be blasting so loud an entire city block can hear and feel it.
ByCromThatsAHotTake@reddit
If I had one of these cars, I would do whatever I could to add Tie Fighter sounds to it. Or I would just remove that dumb shit and lower the weight a bit.
BassWingerC-137@reddit
Cops should at least be held to the standard of holding a high school diploma.
furrynoy96@reddit
That's such a Dodge thing lmao, getting a ticket because your fake engine noises were too loud
hydrochloriic@reddit
Reading the article it sure sounds like the trooper wanted to go after the guy who left the light ahead of the Charger, but decided he could just pin it on the Charger driver instead.
It’s worth pointing out, should it go to court, that the synthesized exhaust noise is part of the DOT-mandated pedestrian alert sound. Yes it can be turned off and switched to a standard “angelic halo” noise like most EVs, but even in the louder race modes (which the driver claims he was not in) at standstill it certainly shouldn’t be too loud.
I dunno, sounds to me like the trooper just wanted to ticket someone in the group, especially based on the further questions about rolling up the window to check tint and the front plate.
VladimirSteel@reddit
The charger has the ability to be obnoxious, but the story and owner seem to imply that the car couldn't have even been the one being loud
The owner could definitely be lying about being low on battery and/or in "auto" mode, but needing to be in park and/or moving to make loud "exhaust" noise seems to back him up that it was likely someone else. I've definitely been worried about being targeted with a loud exhaust ticket with my stock exhaust when there's some truck or something with the muffler hacked off driving next to me. 90% of cops won't give a shit, write you the ticket, and make you fight it in court
tyrannosaurus_r@reddit
It does produce a noise when moving in auto mode, assuming you don’t turn off the audio via settings, but it’s not very loud. It’s louder than your average economy car, but by no means excessive. Sport mode is pretty loud.
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Caqtus95@reddit
Good LMAO. Nobody wants to hear an electric car's cringe impression of an internal combustion engine. It's literally just making noise for the sake of making noise.