ULPT Request: How to trick State Farm’s drive safe and save program?
Posted by marino1310@reddit | UnethicalLifeProTips | View on Reddit | 123 comments
So I have drive safe and save and noticed it’s always rating me low for hard braking and cornering. I very rarely, if ever brake hard. Items in my seats don’t even roll around, I have no idea what it’s considering hard braking but it’s pretty extreme. Same with cornering. I don’t take any fast curves, I drive to match the speeds of everyone around me so unless it wants me slowing to 5mph I don’t know what to do. Is there any way of maybe tricking the accelerometer or something?
vandon@reddit
The phone app program is always running, even if you are not driving. Taxi? Logged. With a friend as a passenger? Logged. Taking a run in a park and turn around quickly? Logged.
The one that plugs into your car is better but costs the insurance company more.
cjw7x@reddit
I downloaded it on a second phone that was on sometimes, not all the time. I got a discount.
Azariah98@reddit
Load it onto a burner phone that you leave at home. Take it out once a week for a leisurely drive to the store.
Also, get better at driving.
PrimaryThis9900@reddit
You have to report your odometer readings occasionally and they compare it to trips taken. For whatever reason the app doesn't connect on my wife's phone, so when she drives on her own it doesn't record the trips and then cuts our discount because it looks like we're trying to be sneaky.
AirGear@reddit
This argument is stupid. Some people don't take their phone outside when they drive.
PrimaryThis9900@reddit
If you have your phone with you at all it is supposed to connect and track your drive. Their argument is that it is highly unlikely for somebody to drive somewhere and leave their phone at home.
AirGear@reddit
Nah the argument is that phone is off when driving to decrease distractions.
what_the_purple_fuck@reddit
I live in a walkable city with accessible public transportation and don't drive much, and I asked if there was a minimum threshold / if I'd be penalized for lack of data, and the guy made noncommittal noises but didn't actually have an answer
PrimaryThis9900@reddit
I'm sure you wouldn't be penalized, but they would probably not give you as much of a discount, or maybe more of a discount. Insurance agents don't have much information on anything. They plug the info into a computer and it gives them an answer that they don't question. I bought a 20 year old truck that was worth maybe $5k. Having just liability insurance on it was costing as much as full coverage insurance on my wife's $30k SUV. I called to ask why and they just told me it could be because the truck was red.
WalterWhite2012@reddit
Best tip is to ditch that shit all together, but if you’re insistent on it is it phone or OBD? If it’s OBD based unplug it except for one time week/month, whatever and drive as leisurely as possible. If it’s a phone, load it on to a burner phone with a basic plan, and same thing do a dedicated leisurely drive enough to get a score and leave it at home otherwise.
Hectic_Halloween@reddit
So your “bad” driving doesn’t actually do anything to your rates. But the better your rating is the more of a discount you get overtime. You also get a discount for just having the device/program. There’s really no penalty.
eight13atnight@reddit
Get rid of that thing. What does it save you…5 bucks a month?? Your data is what they’re harvesting.
Impossible_Papaya_59@reddit
I use State Farm drive safe. I can't figure out how they determine the savings at all though.
One of my vehicles has a $100 discount, and my other vehicle has a $3 discount.
It makes no sense. I mean, $100 discount is nice, but there's no way that the driving habits between these 2 vehicles is enough to go from $100 to $3.
Magmortar@reddit
I work for a company who does this and am in their data department. I literally look at this sort of data and we don’t do anything malicious with it. Enough people mess with the data so that it’s not that useful. We simply don’t give discounts to people who try to mess with it. If you use it and drive like you are supposed to, you’ll get a good amount off your premium.
It won’t be used against you for an accident and it won’t hold up in a court of law. There is really not much there to be worried about. You can speed and use your phone with it. Just don’t do it every time and you’ll get like 5% off. It cannot hurt you really at all.
PlatosBalls@reddit
Thanks for sharing. All the paranoia and dread in this thread was getting to me. As if anyone cares when John Q goes to lunch right.
Nukegm426@reddit
What people don’t realize is it’s using accelerometers to figure this stuff out. So if your car has a stiffer suspension or the roads suck, it’s going to read wrong. Just like the section for cellphone use. If you get a notification, even from its own app, it’s going to count that as usage it has no way to know you continually touch your phone. Just like if the passenger uses your phone it kits you for that because it doesn’t know. I was told some things aren’t actually used in the rate calculations but frankly the whole thing is becoming a scam. Last year my rates went up simply because they decided to arbitrarily lower the discount you receive from using the system.
HoustonBOFH@reddit
These programs are the real "Unethical" crap. They do not save anyone money. Ditch it.
thefluffyparrot@reddit
Many years ago someone from Progressive tried to convince me to sign up for their version of this crap. I was a dumb ass kid but I knew better than to buy into this scam. I asked her what would happen if someone crashed in front of me and I hit the brakes really hard avoid the accident. Would that count as bad driving? She goes “uuuuh yea I guess so”.
Rayje589@reddit
Basically had this happen to me while I had the thing in my car. Car pulled out in front of me and IMO I didn’t break hard at all, but that thing went crazy.
Rusty_Trigger@reddit
If where you drive has a high percentage of bad drivers, then you are at a higher risk for having a claim than those that drive in areas with a low percentage of bad drivers. Having to stop quickly frequently due to other drivers driving poorly has nothing to do with your driving skills or the way you drive, but it gauges the environment in which you drive which is what the insurance company wants to know.
MjrLeeStoned@reddit
I used Progressive's for 6 months back in around 2013 and my rate went down around $40 per month.
Maybe y'all just had drivers?
Sad-Foot-2050@reddit
I read somewhere that these programs are administered by a third party so the insurance companies don’t have to develop the software. BUT the third party is allowed to use your data and sell the information to advertisers and other entities so they can determine your shopping habits and where you drive to to improve targeting. That seems like unethical²
iboneyandivory@reddit
Life360 and GasBuddy apps sell your data to insurance companies
HoustonBOFH@reddit
We ain't got nothing on some of the companies... Piss disks are a treat compared to what they do.
not_this_time_satan@reddit
Seriously though. You are just giving the insurance company reasons to deny your claims.
Tlr321@reddit
The apps are junk & not very "real time" at all. It's logging based entirely on estimates using GPS location & gyroscope information. I used to just put my phone in the cupholder of my car, which held the phone in place, but it would rock back and forth if I sped up or braked, which caused the information on the app to say I was not driving very well. Then I got a dash mount for my phone & my score jump more than 20 points.
McFuzzen@reddit
Motion sensors in phones are more than sensitive enough to register acceleration and braking. Between that and GPS, there is no lag, it really is real time.
CenturionRower@reddit
And algorithmic pricing. They should not give 2 fucks about how i drive as long as I am not getting in accidents. The fact that they got rid of discounts on customers who go accident free for some long and instead REQUIRE you to use this system so they can use LLMs to determine your "perceived" risk is absurd.
Pretty sure you have to drive in an unsafe ways to even get scores that they deem "good" except for the phone usage, which IMO is the only reasonable metric.
717Luxx@reddit
it's probably moreso that they're selling your info and making bank off it
cum-yogurt@reddit
Ironically, phone usage isn’t factored in to your score at the moment. Right now it’s just a metric for your own awareness.
CenturionRower@reddit
Which is even funnier.
TheRedGandalf@reddit
I get about a 30% reduction on my bill, consistently.
Ancient_Log7788@reddit
Is that what your last shred of privacy and dignity is worth?
TheRedGandalf@reddit
It's pretty nice
Ancient_Log7788@reddit
😅😅😅
Melvolicious@reddit
And people say the dramatic arts are dead
chiaboy@reddit
But they save lives. Which actually matters more
marino1310@reddit (OP)
Just having it takes 100 off my payments, but I feel like prices have been inflated for it
HoustonBOFH@reddit
Yep. And you will probably not get the entire hundred...
breachofcontract@reddit
The many customers I have saving a shit load, would argue otherwise. Most I’ve seen was $732 for six months. That’s not typically, but $200 is. Not sure at what overall cost (personal data, location, privacy, etc) but I can show you a quote with and without it on that kids’ policy and you’ll be able to do the math and $732.
dburr10085@reddit
Giving them your data, and whereabouts.
Few-Equal-6857@reddit
I signed up for this once and it dinged me twice for breaking hard backing out of my drive way for the stupid ass kids speeding through my neighborhood. These systems are trash don't even bother
andytagonist@reddit
I know this isn’t unethical at all (or perhaps it’s maximum unethical…), but if it’s telling you you’re braking too hard, and if you value its opinion of you, stop braking so hard. 🤷♂️
And saying you match the speeds of everyone around you is also clearly not working for State Farm.
-tacostacostacos@reddit
It’s also bullshit that the apps penalize you for how late you’re driving. What if you work night shift? Maybe it’s more dangerous on the road at night but that doesn’t mean you personally are a more dangerous driver.
likelazarus@reddit
My MIL works for an insurance company and when I asked about a program like this (because I consider myself a safe driver!) she said don’t ever do it.
Mr_Spoonfull@reddit
Start your drive. Put your phone in airplane mode. Then turn it back on when you arrive. Or turn off the data for the app and then turn it back on when you’re done driving. Worked for me. Plus you can speed too.
Scarlet-Fire_77@reddit
I forget which company my friend had but he tried airplane mode and the app instantly dropped his phone usage score. He did finally ditch that shit because he was saving nothing.
Mr_BigglesworthIII@reddit
Getting that put in your car is a terrible idea. My sister works for an insurance company and she said don’t ever get one of those.
placeboski@reddit
What reasons does she give as to why not to ?
TempAcct20005@reddit
Why don’t we inverse your question. What good reason can you give me to do so?
Xtay1@reddit
So they can determine how many bars you visit, the duration of your bar visit, and why you're not with your family who drove to church. If they see you at a very expensive restaurant, they know you can pay more for insurance.
TempAcct20005@reddit
Oh man why didn’t I think of these reasons. Where do I sign
Mr_BigglesworthIII@reddit
Because they watch everything you do and it could easily cost you money.
jaxxon@reddit
More proof that there will be idiots lined up around the block to get tracker implants for those sweet, sweet social tokens.
midnitewarrior@reddit
You can trick it into thinking you are a better driver by being a better driver, I'm guessing you don't want to consider that though.
marino1310@reddit (OP)
But they want me to be a worse driver it seems. Instead of keeping up with traffic they want me to drive the speed limit and slow everyone else down. Instead of taking turns responsibly they want me to slow to a crawl for every turn, again, slowing others down. Instead of stopping normally they want me to stay 10 car lengths away to stop on time. It’s not normal driving conditions. Hell, the water bottle on my seat has never even rolled off yet I’m somehow braking too hard. I don’t get it
midnitewarrior@reddit
Following too closely is the main culprit for having to brake too hard. I usually have a lot of space in front of me so that I never have to brake too hard. I also have the adaptive cruise control on it's maximum spacing when on the highway.
None of that has to do with how fast you are going, other than needing more space between cars when you go faster.
The thing about insurance companies is that they know which behaviors will cost them money more than you will ever know. If, in their testing, they found that the settings in the app are optimal for their insurance claims, that's the kind of safety they are looking for.
Now, if the app is programmed poorly, or there's bugs, or it didn't follow their data, that's a different issue, but the insurance companies absolutely know what costs them more money. You can argue all you want, but those greedy bastards spend thousands of hours a year studying this stuff because it costs them profits.
marino1310@reddit (OP)
The problem is I live in Florida. If you have more than a 3 car gap (except on the highway) someone will just fill the gap. So you never can have any large gaps before someone shrinks it
midnitewarrior@reddit
That's everywhere, but your car keeps moving forward when you do that, and cruise control opens up more space.
ththrowrowawayway@reddit
That's exactly what they want you to do: drive slow af, turn corners gently, begin applying brakes 1/4 a mile before you come to a full stop. In other words, make you a safer driver.
But I agree it's annoying and I hate it.
mikitronz@reddit
Yes, all of those things are safer.
meest@reddit
As you've already noticed. Its not designed for real world scenarios. Its designed for fictitious scenarios where everyone drives under the speed limit and takes twice as long to get anywhere.
If you live in a 1000 person town with 2 or 3 stoplights, it will work ok.
If you live in a metro or any town big enough to have a Target and a Walmart, it will not scale to the road congestion.
nynjaface@reddit
Taking longer to stop, turning corners slowly, doesn't make you a better driver. Just makes you a normie. That gets in everyone else's way. I'm sorry you can't take the corner at the speed limit and need to take the corner bases off the yellow sign before it. You are the one who needs to drive better.
midnitewarrior@reddit
I don't need to change how I drive, I wasn't dumb enough to install spyware to be my nanny while I drive.
nynjaface@reddit
You clearly think being a better driver is to do what the app wants. If you think that, you clearly need to learn what better driving actually is.
midnitewarrior@reddit
There's a way to drive better and make the app happier at the same time. You need your human creativity to do it.
The smartest choice though is to ditch the app entirely and just focus on keeping yourself alive and not killing anyone else instead of paying attention to what some app tells you to do.
JJHall_ID@reddit
Is your beacon attached to something solid, like your windshield, or is it just in your glove compartment or on something that can move around a bit? If it isn't solidly attached, the forces it picks up from a braking situation can seem higher because it would move forward then stop more suddenly than the vehicle itself. Same with cornering. If it is installed properly, request a replacement beacon from State Farm. You may have a defective device. Mine works fine, and I've not had it throw any false positives. There's been some times where I've had to brake hard or something, and I've thought "That's going to get flagged" and sure enough, it did.
I don't know of any ULPT, as they track odometer use and use other methods to detect measures taken to defeat attempts to bypass it. Keep in mind you don't need to use it. If it is installed properly and not defective, and it is still flagging your driving, you may be better off dropping out of the program as your driving habits may not be as safe and deserving of a discount as you believe.
iamaven@reddit
I dismantled the beacon when they sent me a new one and it only contains a Bluetooth low energy emitter. There are no sensors inside.
The app uses your phone's sensor for all the readings.
JJHall_ID@reddit
Interesting! I’ll have to take one apart, I think I have an extra laying around.
mrsockburgler@reddit
I have a beacon. Connect to it like once a month. No complaints. Get a sweet discount.
ShoddyJuggernaut975@reddit
Hmmm... put it in a waterproof case, then submerge in a tank of gel...
Hot-Win2571@reddit
Yeah. Maybe the phone is in a purse which is hanging on a hook, so it goes swinging around or bouncing.
JJHall_ID@reddit
It isn't the phone, they give you a little "beacon" that is a little device this about 2" square and about an inch thick that contains an accelerometer. That device connects to the driver's phone via BTLE and uploads the accelerometer data, which gets uploaded to the company that runs the program for State Farm (and I assume a lot of other insurance companies that offer a similar program.). The device is supposed to be securely attached (3M VHB tape) to a solid surface on the car. Mine is on the windshield in the "blind spot" behind the rear view mirror where it doesn't obstruct my vision at all. If OP just tossed it in their center console or glove compartment rather than securing it to the vehicle, the accelerometer data will be WAY off as it bounces around with every acceleration, brake, and turn.
kevinh456@reddit
Have two cars. Enroll one at a time. Only drive the other car except for a specific route to and from work.
emailaddressforemail@reddit
I have a spare cell phone (free lines from my carrier) and I installed the app there. I leave it in the garage so the app would see the transponders whenever we park. It never goes out on a trip with a car.
Eighth_Eve@reddit
You can turn it off. You hve to record so many trips a month. Do that and no more, more can only hurt, never help.
After a recorded trip see if there were any flags. If not you were driving. If there was hard braking tell the app it wasn't you driving.
hahahahthunk@reddit
State Farm has their app threshold set pretty high.
Results like yours tend to come from two things: 1. Tailgating will give you hard braking results. 2. Cornering is probably not from your leisurely right turns. It’s prob your left turns. When you are turning left across traffic, you might be gunning it to get across in a smallish gap. That’s associated with serious crashes (totals, fatalities, severe injuries).
ULPT would be to make only right turns, lol.
Better idea would be to chill the f out when you drive.
StraightUp-Reviews@reddit
Guilty as charged.
Becaus789@reddit
Get outta here nerd
Dutchboy347@reddit
Put it in a 2nd car one that just sits. But its not worth it all together but if you really have to stick it in another car.
rbtmgarrett@reddit
You only get the discount on the car the device is assigned to. And the device tracks mileage and you have to update it with your actual odometer reading every few months. Best solution is to drive safely if you’re trying to get a discount for safe driving.
Dutchboy347@reddit
Ive done it long enough to get away with it with geico and liberty mutual
Ancient_Log7788@reddit
Absolutely NO ONE should be using these apps. We consumers have to draw a hard line that we are owed privacy.
stannc00@reddit
Unplug the thing from your car and pay the extra $10/month.
T0nysoprano@reddit
I don’t know but my advice is to NEVER download these shitty “savings” apps. They track every move you make and can end up even spiking up your insurance prices. You can apparently get a good student discount by showing them a recent transcript, anyone with decent tech skills can edit a pdf document to make it look real.
UnjustlyBannd@reddit
de_kitt@reddit
I had one of those and I am a very cautious driver. I hardly had anything come up, but it did flag me for hard breaking about once a month. Basically, you have to stop driving to get an A++ rating.
wizardwil@reddit
By now you've had enough "Don't use this" replies so to answer your question:
My understanding of the system is the app uses your device's internal gyros and accelerometers. So I'd make a raspberry-pi controlled gyro- stabilized platform to hold your phone. If you keep it level from roll (side to side) forces, that should eliminate the hard cornering issues. The braking is a little more tricky, but essentially you'd have the platform be able to slide forward/ backward, the pi would monitor actual vehicle acceleration and be able to shift the platform to alter the acceleration data read by the phone.
Can / do you get a granular report of incidents? That would allow you to collect data over a period of usage which would help you dial in the settings - you'd use the pi as a passive reader and compare reported incidents to captured acceleration curves. If not it would be a little trial and error over time, tweaking coefficients/PID values to give the right results
glennis_pnkrck@reddit
The insurance dongles are security nightmares. Carnegie Mellon did a study like 8 years ago and could hack 17/17 with pretty basic stuff. Some of them had vulnerabilities that let people then attack other stuff like your phone or your in-car Bluetooth. They also don’t use the same data as the car itself to estimate vehicle speed or MPG so it won’t agree with your dash on that. And yea, they basically exist to 1) monetize your information and 2) find a reason to deny claims or raise rates.
That said, they want to see long slowdowns, take your foot off the gas and coast to a stop with the merest of taps to the brakes, no more than 3/4 throttle, drive like your seizure prone shih tzu is sitting inside a priceless antique vase on the front seat etc. But they will still raise your rates if the GPS has you driving through intersections that have a lot of crashes.
Dos-Commas@reddit
I had an old Nexus 4 phone that was rooted and I had an app that froze the accelerometer readings. I got a perfect score in these auto insurance tracker apps.
No_Educator_6376@reddit
Unplug it
Lagneaux@reddit
There are ways to disable the devices sometimes by pulling out specific contacts in the plug, so it's not reading or something. I recall looking it up and it was device specific
paul99501@reddit
Steadicam holder.
Jimathomas@reddit
I use the GEICO version, and my score is great. My premiums have gone down over the last couple of years.
It will most likely be your phone. The location software/accelerometer may "skip" or be glitchy in such a way as to make it seem like you are driving badly. If there's a software update, do it.
thisappsucks9@reddit
There’s very little to gain from using these things and a whole lot to lose I feel like.
babybambam@reddit
Drive safe
DriveWilling9874@reddit
Completely ethical…leave State Farm. They tried to raise my rate so I shopped around and got the same coverage elsewhere at almost half what they wanted.
MattCW1701@reddit
Android phones at least permit location spoofing (I have an app for that for development work). I bet there's a way to simulate a nice, safe drive.
Kodamacile@reddit
Strap your phone to the cat.
MissPatsyStone@reddit
My cat drives worse than I do
ImmediateLobster1@reddit
Toonces, noooo!!
MissPatsyStone@reddit
Get a Faraday bag. Put your phone in there. They block all incoming and outgoing radio frequency (RF) signals, including GPS, cellular, Wi-Fi and bluetooth
Ill-Running1986@reddit
Legit question: do we know for sure that it’s not just logging accelerometer readings for later upload? Though speed/location cues would be missing, that would still let them see acceleration and braking.
nrdgrrrl_taco@reddit
More power to the inertial dampeners?
ekkidee@reddit
Get Geordi on that right away.
Improvement_Room@reddit
No, you disengage the external ones.
forkedquality@reddit
The engineer in me would try to decouple the car and the phone. Obviously, the phone is in the car, so the best we can do is some sort of low-pass filtering and damping.
I'd start with water wigglers, like these: https://www.amazon.com/Wiggler-Prismatic-Sparkle-Sensory-Fidget/dp/B0FH4HKFLQ/ Maybe the inside tube could stretch enough to fit the phone? If not, I'd try to get a couple of these, and put the phone on top. Maybe cover it with another one.
If that did not work, or if I was feeling extra nerdy, I'd build a phone mount based on small shock absorbers - like these: https://www.amazon.com/RCLions-Absorber-Internal-Crawler-Upgrade/dp/B07W1NGC3X?th=1
Finally - and only now are we getting into the "unethical" territory - do they allow rooted phones? Or emulators? These could allow you to feed heavily modified (or even completely fake) data into the app.
ekkidee@reddit
The Missus had this program awhile back when she lived in a street grid neighborhood with a stop sign on every corner. It really dinged her insurance to the point she chucked the whole thing. It was calling her out on stop and go.
How to trick it? Leave it at home.
BigBibs@reddit
Those programs give them data that they can monetize for themselves. You're not saving anything significant and you're actually giving them more ammunition to deny your claims.
sewer_pickles@reddit
I had the version from Progressive that you would plug into the car’s obd-II port. I realized that I wouldn’t get penalized for times when it wasn’t installed. It didn’t seem to track gaps in the odometer reading.
The way I used this was to plug it in and let it connect to the network. I would then leave it plugged in for a short drive to the store or something I knew would be a slow route. I would then unplug it when I got home. This allowed me to leave it mostly unplugged so that it didn’t have data on all of my driving. The insurance company then gave me a lower rate for low mileage and for good driving habits.
I suppose that you can’t do this with the app, unless you put your phone in airplane mode for every drive. But I also wonder how the app would know the difference if I’m driving vs a passenger in a car. Does it just activate based on the accelerometer?
ImOnlyCakeOnceAYear@reddit
I have a friend that just turns their Bluetooth off to get their safe drive discount thing. It even says on the app, 0 miles driven all year. Not sure what company though.
deestatefarm@reddit
Get rid of it. They’re just tracking you.
SubstantialPressure3@reddit
You shouldn't be breaking hard all the time. Are you tailgating other cars without realizing it? Are you coming up behind people too fast? Do you need glasses? Do you need NEW glasses?
Hate to tell you this, the problem isn't the app. It's your driving.
marino1310@reddit (OP)
But I’m not braking hard. I’ve been dinged for stopping at a stop sign going 15mph. It’s just regular braking, enough that a water bottle never rolls off my seat.
SubstantialPressure3@reddit
Have you contacted progressive about it?
Maybe the problem is on their end. Maybe it needs to be calibrated.
Or just not use the app, and pay a little extra.
I had issues with the app, it wouldn't accept the password, any password I was given, so I just gave up on it. I think I just had to pay the difference in using/not using the app which was a whole $40 total.
Careful_Trifle@reddit
I stopped even trying because inevitably, someone would break check me after quick merging.
jerryjerusalem@reddit
Ditch it, it's designed to make the advertised savings impossible to achieve
PuddleFarmer@reddit
I have the progressive version.
I drive the car the same way as my truck.
Why, at the same speed, same distance to a stop, the thing shows hard braking on the car and not the truck? The truck weighs 3.5x as much.
Jacks_Lack_of_Sleep@reddit
For phone distraction, you can go into individual trips and mark that you were a passenger or a passenger used your phone. I scan the trip list for trips that had incidents, check them for phone use, and switch it. Then my phone distraction score goes to 100%.
This post reminded me I hadn’t done it in a while. Took about 5 minutes to go through ~140 trips with about 25% showing an incident of any kind. I didn’t keep track of how many I had to change. Obviously the more you drive and the more aggressive of a driver you are, the less practical this tip becomes.
Equivalent-Common943@reddit
When I did it years ago with progressive they had a plug in, and it beeped if you braked too hard. Basically, I learned that you really had to break like twice as soon as you thought you had to. A long, gentle, rolling stop. Like whisper quiet. Almost no rollback. Good luck
Historical_Focus_125@reddit
When I signed up for Progressive I had checked the box to download the safe driving tracking app thing. I never downloaded it because I had second thoughts. I was like "I'm really not the best driver, they'll probably dock me constantly."
They harassed me to download the app via email and phone, constantly. Then they started CHARGING ME MORE FOR NOT DOWNLOADING IT. Insurance is such a disgusting fucking scam
zyfoxmaster150@reddit
signing up is the unethical part.
Maleficent-Crow-446@reddit
Sometimes I'm riding in my husband's car, as we take leisurely drives in the country. Sometimes I'm riding in my bosses truck, as we haul our food trailer to events. Sometimes I drive my own truck around town. How is it ever supposed to match up to my odometer, in my truck? And why am I never "allowed" to be on my phone, as a passenger? They never seem to know who is driving. Yet, I get pinged?