End of the S-Line? Audi boss promises less range complexity and choice on future models
Posted by V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 63 comments
Audi plans to limit the huge scope of choice currently offered to its customer when speccing their cars, putting the resource into fewer options of higher quality
snail_forest1@reddit
honestly I'm for it, ever company has a "line" that just puts lipstick on their base model. s line, r line, n line, st line, gt line. is this even how you spell line anymore, i've typed it so often it's loosing it's meaning. I't just a way to upsell the customer to make them think they have a performance car when it's really just a bas model with some gloss black mirror caps
RoryW@reddit
I would hope most people don’t think it is actually a performance upgrade? Right? My wife couldn’t care less about performance but loved the grill and wheels of a “line” car, so we hunted for that specific option. Granted, my presence in the sub probably means we are slightly more informed than the average consumer…
Carter0108@reddit
Unfortunately it works. I've known even car people to claim that their GT-Line car or AMG-Line cars are performance versions.
snail_forest1@reddit
I've met many people who own the civic "sport" trim and boast about having a sporty car when they cave an econo car with gloss black accents. Sure they may not think they're getting a performance upgrade, they just think it's a performance model in general.
kstrike155@reddit
Some of these “line” models do more than just cosmetics.
I had an A4 S-line and it gave me sport suspension, body kit, bigger wheels, and a bunch of interior bits.
Ran4@reddit
Same with the Volvo r-design line, which has an optional sports chassi and stiffer dampers (depending on the year).
LiteHedded@reddit
correct. nobody thinks that
RiftHunter4@reddit
Ah, yes, because nothing says luxury and premium like a lack of choice and options.
Carter0108@reddit
Surely a truly luxury car already has all the options as standard?
AnonymousEngineer_@reddit
You can take it too far, though - Audi doesn't need an options list the size of an old phone book like Porsche or Ferrari offer.
hi_im_bored13@reddit
but they don't have a ferrari length options list, they don't even have a mercedes length options list
Most of their lineup you pick between premium/plus/prestige, pick a color, interior color (q5 has 3), two rim choices, you can option out the sunroof but thats literally it
No options for interior material or trim separate (e.g. glc lets you pick between synthetics/standard/nappa w/ 6 choices for the trim & additional for the center console), its not like they’re the king of options as it stands right now
I genuinely don’t know what choice they’d remove, there’s barely any as is
lael8u@reddit
It's an North America issue honestly.
That need to be fixed.
poopoomergency4@reddit
they won't even let you pick the usual merc/bmw interior colors on most of the S models. you get black, grey, or red. unless you move up to an RS or an S8, then you can get brown. meanwhile even an m340 has 8 interior options and 5 trims.
Dazzling-Rooster2103@reddit
Going and speccing out Audi's online is just awful.
There are so few options compared to pretty much every other german car brand.
Wolfo93@reddit
Not really in EU there is a LOT of options, they just treat US differently
TheChickenScampi@reddit
Man, Sonoma Green was SO pretty. Nogaro Blue was also another fine color. Many more I'm sure exist, but aren't popping up in the mind right now. I know the typical Grey, Beige, White, Black, etc. spectrum of ho-hum colors exists to sell in droves, but I feel Audi could push more advertising in nice colors and highlight the feel of choosing a unique color. I mean, there's that nice lime green for the RS3, but I feel there could be a stronger push towards more nicer colors for the overall lineup IMO.
Augents@reddit
You’re talking about the US market. In Europe, Audis have an extreme amount of options.
Just use the german configurator and see for yourself.
MrReadilyUnready@reddit
Go take a run at the German or French configurator and then come back and comment on your experience.
I personally love the immense amount of configurations available, but I can see why some don't.
hi_im_bored13@reddit
Yeah someone else informed me their European A6 had everything a la carte, thats insane
JC-Dude@reddit
I specced out an A6 e-tron recently. There were 140 individual options, around 10 smaller packages, 3 big packages, around 12 different options for seats, which some of them also include stuff like aluminium pedals, massage, etc. It took me 2 days to finalize my spec.
hi_im_bored13@reddit
Is this a European thing because just get the three trims, some mild paint and interior choices, Quattro or not, thats it
JC-Dude@reddit
Yeah, European.
WOW_SUCH_KARMA@reddit
Sure, but the S-Line package isn't the problem there. It's one of the things they're doing right. They sell tons of them, and they look pretty sharp.
natesully33@reddit
I, for one, like simple options lists both for less complexity and not getting nickle-and-dimed on things that should really just come with the car. That... doesn't seem like luxury to me but I suppose I'm not really the target market.
My ideal car would have a few trims with the features that actually cost real money differentiated there, then fun cosmetic options like paint/interior color/wheels. That's the stuff I want to pick, rather than whether I have a bunch of individual features that likely don't cost the carmaker much to add or not.
Yeah, I realize business pressure pushes carmakers in the more options direction too of course, that's how you make more money on each sale.
RiftHunter4@reddit
Its the opposite. Most manufacturers have cut options, some almost entirely, because its cheaper and saves on manufacturing costs. They just add the features that sell the best and if you don't like them, too bad. Just like why every company is focused on white, black, and grey cars.
It used to be that even regular cars had a fair amount of options, but they've removed those. I hope options make a comeback because we definitely have the manufacturing and logistics tech to do it efficiently. But the industry is struggling as is.
markeydarkey2@reddit
It's a combination of both. Automakers cut standard options to increase margins through reduced costs but they still offer them as paid options to further boost the margins from people buying said options.
natesully33@reddit
The trick is to add options that don't cost money to implement, like Porsche charging you for the acceleration noise in the Taycan. Or add an option that does have a little cost, like the 240V power in my Lightning (which used to be standard on higher trims) and charge a big markup for it.
Having less options is cheaper when they add cost/complexity to manufacturing, but you can easily make that up with markups on them if it's planned right. It's like how apple used to make two iPhones with different amounts of flash - a very cheap commodity part - with a big markup between the two. That's how you make more money with a simple manufacturing split.
InvasionOfScipio@reddit
They don’t.
ManufacturerBest2758@reddit
Audi already seems to have way fewer options than BMW and Mercedes
the_lamou@reddit
As opposed to "a fake trim level that added some of the 'sporty' appearance of the actual S cars, but at a fraction of the cost and with none of the performance, so that people who couldn't afford the expensive option could still lie to their neighbors about their income".
RiftHunter4@reddit
I would happily take those faked appearance trims. I'm a Toyota fan. At least they're getting something that looks interesting. Hell, At least they've got options at all!
Ran4@reddit
Japanese cars are terrible at this. The only way to get top level sound insulation and top stereo system almost always also include the largest rims.
Like, why? People don't want loud cars, and 98% of buyers don't want huge rims.
markeydarkey2@reddit
Excessive segmentation of a model can make each trim feel less coherent, like it's kinda nice for a specific trim to feel like it's own thing rather than just one of many steps in the trim ladder.
bindermichi@reddit
You can ditch the long option lists and just make a small number of trim levels with all the options as standard.
The most frustrating part is configuring a car and adding 20k on options to bring it on par with a car that costs the same amount as an entry level Audi with all your options already included.
bikedork5000@reddit
That's literally what Audi has had for years already.
bindermichi@reddit
For the US market maybe. But this trims are set by the dealers and importers. You can order a barebones Audi, BMW, Mercedes or Porsche select the drive train and spec than as you wish in Europe. For BMW it was possible in the US as well, if you can convince your dealer to let you.
Those pre selected trim for the US mean that you cannot get every option these brands offer.
If Audi switches to predefined trims globally it will cut down their production cost since they do not have to plan for as much variety in their builds.
Mercedes once published that you can get ~1 mio different specs of a C-class based on the available options and combinations. So reducing that to 3 or 5 will make a huge difference.
BetafromZeta@reddit
1 million combinations is misleadingly complex though, that is essentially just 10 things with 7 choices (10\^7 = 1M). The available options themselves and their difficulty is more important than the raw number of combinations.
Marco_lini@reddit
Their entire range and option policy is definitely to complex in times where Tesla exist. Audi builds 100 (!)different steering wheels, thats just insane. They also want to reduce that to 3-4 wheels.
desf15@reddit
Most German brands are simplifying their offers recently. I know it was different in US, but in Poland in previous generation of BMW and Audi models almost everything could have been bought as single options. Now, more and more are bundled into packages which usually contain few desired options and then some additional crap for which you also have to pay.
Mercedes is also offering packages for each model but most of options can be also picked without package, BMW and Audi are recently more and more forcing you to get whole package if you want one option.
bschmidt25@reddit
You'd have to go back a few years, but it was possible to buy most options individually or as part of a package with BMW in the US. The exceptions were mostly things that were part of the Sport or MSport packages (when available). I remember it changing when the F30 came out and they went to packaging options in lines like Luxury, Sport, and MSport - or you could just choose base trim and be pretty limited on options.
StockAL3Xj@reddit
So you decided to write a disingenuous comment instead of actually reading the article, huh?
thefanciestcat@reddit
IIRC overcomplicating the lineup was what this what criticized for when it was introduced.
olov244@reddit
maybe it will be a subscription mode you can unlock with a credit card
'S mode'
cubs223425@reddit
So, in recent years, Audi has given customers interiors full of plastic, to cut costs on higher-quality materials. They have canceled models, lowering tooling and production costs by having fewer things to develop and manage. Now, they're going to strip down the trim options, further streamlining the production process to cut costs.
Then, I fully expect they'll keep raising prices because of "inflation," even as they cut a bunch of costs and took things from the customer. Who wants to shop in premium/luxury brands for such experiences? It flat-out sucks, and with how many niceties have moved into "mainstream" brands and models, I don't see how these types of behaviors give brands like Audi a runway to long-term success.
BetafromZeta@reddit
What year would you say the interiors went south? And was it specific components/models or across the board? One strong selling point for Audi imo has always been the interiors.
LiteHedded@reddit
2025 is a big change. take a look at the q6 etron/q5 interiors
BetafromZeta@reddit
That Audi badge in the middle looks ..... terrible in my opinion. Wow, not a fan.
cubs223425@reddit
I can't say I've been in them consistently to pinpoint a date. However, it was earlier this year that Audi basically admitted to the issue: https://www.motor1.com/news/751377/audi-admits-interior-quality-worse/
IMO, part of it is the reliance on screens. I don't like driving my sister's A7 because of how much you have to manage on the screens. The interior plastics have the same kind of glossy appearance as a screen as well. Especially in the sunlight, they show dust, dirt, and fingerprints BADLY. Even when you bother to consistently clean the interior, it shows badly.
Beyond that, I've personally never felt the interior space was good. My head is basically in the sunroof of the A7. In the back of the Q7/Q8, it feels cramped. The cupholders are some of the smaller ones I've used (compared to what I'm used to in a wide range of GM/Stellantis products, at least).
None of it's offensively bad, but none of it stands out as great to me. The seats are good, but I'd say even semi-premium stuff like GMC handles that really well these days.
Having ridden in $90K+ Audis in recent years (since that's the brand my sister and her husband preferred), I just don't see the quality for the price. Is it better than my $20K Impala? Yeah, it's not close. Is it better than my grandma's $60K Jeep? Maybe, but I could see some differences in the layout that could make it a more competitive choice for a buyer. Is it better than the $60-70K GM products I've used/been in? Again, maybe, but I couldn't say it without having to do a lot of looking and thinking about it to decide.
CatoMulligan@reddit
They did this with VW as well. There were many VW models I would have been interested in if I could have gotten the right mix of options/trims but everything they were selling was a compromise. And now it sounds like Audi is headed the same way…
NaturalOrdinary3240@reddit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5snHQyDvm2k - A POST PUNK TIM BURNTON FILM HALLOWEEN STYLE EDIT
Incompetent_Person@reddit
I just hope the money they save from not developing bespoke items for each model’s trims translates into developing a more premium car overall, maybe starting with no more lazily slapping gloss black plastic all over the place.
5hadow@reddit
Whichever version they pick, let it not be the hideous one in the current A4
EloeOmoe@reddit
Mercedes did it and the result was basically no distinguishable cues between models.
cubs223425@reddit
But they were able to develop a $1,200/year motor speed increase on their EVs!
IBelieveInSymmetry11@reddit
I feel like there were a few years where all they made were S-Line. Made people feel special and gave them a $2500 markup.
FourEyesAndThighs@reddit
What’s funny is that towards the end of the model cycle, S-Line becomes standard, making your special car the same as every other Q5 in the Whole Foods parking lot.
BetafromZeta@reddit
But it does look a lot better than the base model, so if you just get it because you like it and not to flex, its not a bad option.
MrReadilyUnready@reddit
If you're buying S Line to feel special then you're doing it wrong. You buy it because you think it looks nice. Here in the UK most people have bought the sporty appearance package on all the Germans for so many years that Merc don't offer SE/luxury line trims on most models, and BMW also don't offer them on lots.
IBelieveInSymmetry11@reddit
Exactly
grumpypantaloon@reddit
maybe the rear armrest should not be an option for 300 in ...any Audi. Or other dozens of options. My last 3 cars I took off the lot, I am so over it, spending days, weeks, sometimes months configuring the best variant, then even once the order is in calling the dealer to change the paint, or the black trim back to chrome. One of the 3 cars I didn't even know what color it will be (It was still COVID scarcity everywhere, I simply told them to get me the one that can be delivered fastest
dwhite195@reddit
For the customer who's making a factory order this is awesome, but its needless complexity for the vast majority of buyers. Especially since dealers ordering for stock are looking for the relatively simple and broadly appealing specs. I doubt many of these 100 steering wheel options had any amount of notable sales numbers.
EloeOmoe@reddit
In line with the rumors from a year or so back that Audi is squeezed in between Porsche and VW and will scale back the overlap.
woodsides@reddit
Ahh yes a luxury brand trying to improve profitability by consolidating their offerings. This has always worked very well.