Linux phone with keyboard?
Posted by Gugalcrom123@reddit | linux | View on Reddit | 46 comments
Sorry for asking this.
I really want a GNU/Linux phone to run some of the apps I enjoy, but it only makes sense with a handheld attached physical keyboard, because otherwise the screen space is very small. Maybe what I want doesn't exist and the way is to use an SBC or something. It is OK if the phone runs only with Halium.
Basically, all I need is a Nokia N900 with more RAM.
Please do not tell me about Graphene or whatever here. I don't want only privacy but also freedom. Also, I don't need any of my current Android apps, in any case I can take an Android with me if I see I really need them.
From what I know Planet Computers and Fxtec are not actually shipping and are probably forgotten.
And if such a phone doesn't exist, why doesn't it?
gatornatortater@reddit
I've been a linux phone daily guy since the n900 first came out so I totally feel ya. That was peak linux phone both hardware design wise and software. Part of the problem with current ones is the small tablet design that apple popularized and google mainstreamed. Very few people in this space have ever used a true smartphone designed that way and only think of them as the cordoned off tablet style so when they make a linux phone they've been that model.
Even when pine64 made the keyboard addon it was designed with the idea of a keyboard added to the phone, but not with any understanding of why so many who had used a n900 were asking for one. Just way too big.
So.. short answer. Not enough people are asking for it, and even fewer developer types are even aware of what it is.
Its been 15 years. Most people think the first smartphone was an iphone. Any developer aged 30 was only a teen back then. This goes for the people throwing VA money as well.
Also.. a reminder that N900 happened because a gigantic company like Nokia had the resources to make it happen. And they struggled as well. Not just because Microsoft infiltrated the company to take it down. Maemo didn't really get comfortable until the CSSU fixed things about a couple years after first release.
Gugalcrom123@reddit (OP)
I think that if our community was made aware of the N900, maybe the next Linux phone would clone it instead of the phablets
gatornatortater@reddit
I hope so, but now I think that it isn't something that people are going to understand what they are missing, because they have never experienced it.
I am still optimistic though. We're still moving in the direction where parts continue to get smaller and I can see where off the shelf SBC and related parts could easily fit in that form factor and I could design and print a N900 case myself.
Gugalcrom123@reddit (OP)
I know. I didn't actually use the N900, but it is a smartphone in the original definition, a device built to enable business tasks on the go. It is mostly uninfluenced by the iPhone, maybe if it were launched a year eariler 20% of phones would still look like it. What we call smartphones aren't actually smart, they're Java/Swift machines, with no comfortable input method.
Ok-Winner-6589@reddit
grapheneOS is an Android ROM, technically Android is a Google/Linux instead of GNU/Linux. You could get a ROM that comes with root, not as most Android devices.
Android ROMs community is bigger than Linux phone community so custimizing and the experience would be better.
Gugalcrom123@reddit (OP)
The problem is that Android, by definition, is a Java OS and no ROM changes that. It doesn't run my Linux apps and it will never will, by design.
Ok-Winner-6589@reddit
Java OS? I mean, it relies a lot on the JVM, but you can still run other apps, Minecraft Bedrock (which is on Android) was coded on C++ and it was created to run on phones.
Also Termux let's you run containers with distros.
But if you want a Linux phone Ubuntu touch is there and it's page has some phones and how the development for compatibility is going:
https://devices.ubuntu-touch.io/
Gugalcrom123@reddit (OP)
Those apps run in a container. It is not at all comparable to running native Linux executables. In fact, it doesn't even have /usr. Whatever Android is, it is not Unix-like. Ubuntu Touch is immutable, also has those problems.
Ok-Winner-6589@reddit
This is dumb It uses the Unix file System, even if it's a moddified one, Linux, MacOS and BSD don't have the same file system and Linux is the only one that doesn't come from Unix
Ye but having funtional phones is bullshit.
All use propietary drivers for all their shit, the list was mostly to show some phones that work.
Anyways good luck looking for a phone with the distro you want.
Gugalcrom123@reddit (OP)
Droidian exists, it is like a better, mutable Ubuntu Touch but doesn't support as many devices.
pppjurac@reddit
Because noone will make exotic device with exotic OS combination that will swallow ton of money but will never bring profit as noone will actually buy it.
Is that so hard to get?
Federal-Try9330@reddit
Modern phones use ARM architecture so you would need Linux to run on ARM. I was looking for an attachable keyboard for an android phone the other day for coding python on my phone in termux and I couldn't even find that. It's disapointing. I miss my blackberry curves keyboard.
pppjurac@reddit
BT Keyboard & BT mouse .
Really is that so hard to figure out?
Gugalcrom123@reddit (OP)
Linux runs on ARM, the problem is with drivers
starlasexton@reddit
Doesnt exist because it wont sell
Sorry-Mark-55@reddit
Hey Buddy, I have a Librem 5 which is a linux phone. I personally don't want it anymore so I can sell it to you if you want but it doesn't have physical keyboard.
ipsirc@reddit
Pinephone + keyboard + maemo.
https://leste.maemo.org/PinePhone
https://wiki.pine64.org/wiki/PinePhone_(Pro)_Keyboard
Gugalcrom123@reddit (OP)
That keyboard is not being made anymore. I'd also like a little more RAM, but you can't have it all... if I was able to get the keyboard, I'd have one
gatornatortater@reddit
I lived on the N900 for about a decade. (wipes tear from eye)
I also have a pinephone and the keyboard. It is very very bulky. Nothing at all like the N900. It won't fit in a lot of pockets. So big, that it is hard to hold and use. Not like the N900 where you could flip out the keyboard and type with one hand or thumb type with both while holding it.
You might as well use a netbook or something like the pinetab with the keyboard.
Buying the pine keyboard was a major disappointment.
Gugalcrom123@reddit (OP)
I have the Surface Pro 7+, it is a great device, but still uncomfortable in some cases, it doesn't fit in a pocket, it doesn't make calls and you need a surface (no pun intended) to use it. Even though I've never used the N900, I cry when I see it because I know what would be possible if the iPhone hadn't been invented.
ipsirc@reddit
Nokia N900 is also not being made anymore.
Gugalcrom123@reddit (OP)
I know, it was a long time ago and I want something close to it.
GarThor_TMK@reddit
I wonder it it would be possible to get a pinephone case/shell and cram a raspberry pi compute module into it... looks like the pi-5 has a 16gb-ram variant, with 64gb of storage with a quad-core arm processor for \~$150...
That seems like it'd be more than enough for a phone... though, you'd still need the 5g cellular chip/sim to make it functional...
SmileyBMM@reddit
If you don't need it to be a phone, GPS WIN has a bunch that you can flash Linux onto.
The phone market as a whole isn't doing hot if you don't want Android, mainly because ARM drivers are still a total mess. Your best bet is either accepting and x86 device, or waiting for a ARM manufacturer to embrace open drivers (which prob won't happen anytime soon).
Gugalcrom123@reddit (OP)
I do need phone features simply because most phones are now telescreens and I don't want to use one any more.
zlice0@reddit
unihertz titan 2 and side projects like blackberry revival, but those are both android.
see someone already mentioned mecha comet, think thats the only one ive seen that seems worthy.
even past devices though like gemini have been eh. gpd seems like it could be ok but its bigger like a netbook, not exactly wield-y, and i dont think many have sim slots.
Gugalcrom123@reddit (OP)
I don't understand the Mecha Comet. Is it touchscreen? Does it have call audio integration? An earpiece?
zlice0@reddit
im not sure it was still WIP last i checked and didnt look much into it. i think it had aux? i think sim cards may be an add on or extra feature or something?
probably wont be 'integrated' like a actual cell, have to rig something up with voip or w/e i think.
just not enough for ppl to make an alternative to android i think.
Gugalcrom123@reddit (OP)
I need circuit-switched calls and for the experience to be comparable to a normal phone (I'm not getting headphones for it)
ElephantWithBlueEyes@reddit
Astro Slide 5G. Dualboot into Android and Debian.
gatornatortater@reddit
It is a shame that you've given up. It is a bigger shame that you're pushing for others to give up as well.
FactoryOfShit@reddit
While the final advice is true (laptop is the way to go), the message you're sending is terrible. Privacy is not an illusion or a luxury, it's a basic demand.
"Your data will leak anyway so why bother" is one of the most common fallacies that anti-privacy folk commit. Just because there's no way to 100% guarantee that none of your data will ever leak anywhere doesn't mean that wishing for privacy is suddenly useless. A lower chance of a data leak is better than a guaranteed, well known data faucet, and there being a less popular way of obtaining someone's data is better than willingly being ignorant of a very well known and commonly exploited way of stealing user data.
Yes, anyone online ever probably has some data they sent over that can be used maliciously, there's no way of fixing that for sure. But there's still a difference between having spyware on your machine and not.
Gugalcrom123@reddit (OP)
And I don't think the Astro Slide 5G even exists. Promised for 4 years, none shipped.
Odd-Possession-4276@reddit
There's one on ebay, therefore at least some have been manufactured and delivered. (Not that it helps in pragmatic sense)
Gugalcrom123@reddit (OP)
I simply don't think it's fair to get devices locked down only for profit. This includes most modern dumbphones as well. As for privacy, I don't need much, but maybe it'd be nice for a random American company (Google) not to know all my accessed domains?
T8ert0t@reddit
You could maybe try like a GPD Pocket 2 with a SIM , though that is probably wildly impractical from a battery life and size standpoint.
BranchLatter4294@reddit
Just remote into your desktop with your phone. You can use any Bluetooth keyboard and mouse with an Android phone.
Gugalcrom123@reddit (OP)
ben2talk@reddit
This is a slightly ridiculous statement. I have an Ajazz keyboard... last month we had an internet outage, so I took my ipad and Android phone to the local Mall, found a spot to camp and used my keyboard to switch between the two devices via Bluetooth and type on both; phone for chat in Telegram chat room, and ipad for my Manjaro forum, reddit and other activities in Firefox.
The mouse also works pretty well - a tap of the button and it swaps from one device to the other seamlessly.
Gugalcrom123@reddit (OP)
I guess, but think a text editor and a webpage simultaneously.
KnowZeroX@reddit
You can take any phone that supports linux, and then 3d print a case for it and insert a bluetooth keyboard into the case.
PureTryOut@reddit
Because there just isn't enough interest for it. A sad reality but companies like Planet Computers and Fxtec show it, having not made a new device since forever.
Gugalcrom123@reddit (OP)
Those two were never sold. Only samples were made.
Odd-Possession-4276@reddit
Fxtec delivered multiple batches of Pro1 and Pro1-X. Not usual mass manufacturer scale, but still multiple thousands of units.
They even had a short period of retail availability via some vendor in the UK (which caused some drama because the said vendor had obtained the phone before crowdfunding backers).
As far as Kickstarter-type campaigns can go, that was a somewhat success story. Non sustainable as a business, but backers weren't scammed.
On-topic, your options are limited to PDA-style devices and using an Android phone as a hotspot:
visit /r/cyberdeck for inspiration, there is multiple open hardware projects designed around BlackBerry keyboards and Raspberry Pi Zero
try your luck with crowdfunding lottery: Pocket Popcorn Computer or Mecha Comet
ClockworkPi uConsole is on a bigger side, more like UMPC, not a phone, but can be obtained with a beefier hardware and 4G modem extension board. Sold in pre-order batches, but the manufacturer has a history of being reliable. Read reviews beforehand, there are some gotchas and hardware compromises.
Gugalcrom123@reddit (OP)
I will have to look at cyberdeck. Though I have no source for keyboards.
Gugalcrom123@reddit (OP)
I guess I will use a Raspberry Pi Compute Module with some kind of off-the-shelf components and some kind of small carrier board, the major problems with the uConsole to me are that call audio isn't supported unless you use a separate headphone jack and that the screen is small for two windows.