Why is it important to warm up a mailbox, domain, and IP?
Posted by Iam_feysal@reddit | sysadmin | View on Reddit | 232 comments
Setting up a new mail server for a client and they're planning a big email marketing push on day one. I told them we need to warm up the IP and domain first but they're pushing back, saying it's a waste of time. What are the actual technical consequences if we just start sending out 10k emails from a cold IP? I need some ammo here lol.
snebsnek@reddit
This is more suited to a paid mass mailing service, starting up a mail server dedicated to only marketing on a new IP is never going to result in good deliverability.
0pointenergy@reddit
100% agree. We stood up a new m365 tenant just so the marketing department doesn’t ding our primary tenant. But the whole way through, I kept telling them this is a bad idea, it’s not worth the effort, and they should really pay for a purpose built service, but no, that didn’t happen.
Currently that bulk tenant is blacklisted, my boss just said ignore it until someone from the executive team complains, and then we’ll just build a new tenant with a new domain …… fuck this feels scammy to me. But as far as I know I work for an MSP…😅
MCholin9309@reddit
Microsoft will block outbound mail from a user if they try sending more than a couple hundred messages at once. Ran into that with a client and after getting the block lifted they had to break up their distro lists to 100 or less members and stager sending. Not ideal and not what we recommended as a solution, but that kept them able to send mail and get their newsletters and holiday emails out.
LongjumpingJob3452@reddit
They have a new feature in EXO that allows you to designate up to 20 users as high-volume users. Depending on your org, it could be a cheaper alternative than using SendGrid.
Aggressive-Staff-738@reddit
Last year I remember having to mess frequently with settings for a clients account in EXO and purview because she'd routinely get herself blocked from sending email and couldn't understand the concept of mailchimp...
TheRealLambardi@reddit
This
chunkyfen@reddit
you just have to upvote, no need to reply
TheRealLambardi@reddit
What is interesting is….I did and more to my surprise I am the only upvote vs my comment as of this post has 60.
What is that about?
For what it’s worth I prefer words over arrows, it’s more impactful :)
Leasj@reddit
But how else will they get more attention?
chunkyfen@reddit
I think it's some people's habits from the forum eon
cccanterbury@reddit
he typed into a forum
flyguydip@reddit
That era was far better than the current era of the Karen where everyone thinks their opinion matters and none minds their own business.
saintjonah@reddit
Lol
Gold-Antelope-4078@reddit
That.
IJustLoggedInToSay-@reddit
The other thing.
Gold-Antelope-4078@reddit
Facts.
cowprince@reddit
Proper redditing
Iam_feysal@reddit (OP)
Thank you for the insight
doneski@reddit
The days of hosting your own mail server are dead, Jim. Services exist for a reason! Domain reputation matter, too. Using something like the primary domain is better than using the TLD daily driver.
anna_lynn_fection@reddit
I hear this all the time, but I have several small to smallish clients with their own on-site e-mail server on spectrum IP space and don't have a problem. You just have to set it up right and tight. It's not rocket science. A couple of them even do some mass mailing, albeit limited to low hundreds to about 1500 per mailing.
I refuse to give up every effen thing to the giants. The more control they get - the faster they get more control, until we've lost it all.
Creshal@reddit
Hosting your own email server isn't a big deal… as long as you don't do anything stupid with it.
Ask yourself how long your users are gonna need to do something stupid. Whatever that time is, that's how long you can send emails. After that, your IP range will be tainted forever.
ThinTilla@reddit
You are right. Remembering Lotus Domino and Exchange 5.0 servers with little to no costs. Owning the data on your own raid. E-mail was as sacred as a written letter.Your address book was extremely private. The fight against spam was real. It's different now. More expensive also no headaches. Also no privacy at all.
SpezIsAWackyWalnut@reddit
I mean, you can still host your own mailserver, but you're basically going to be required to use a smarthost for it if you wanna be able to send outgoing mail. The big services like gmail in particular tend to just block email from strange new IP addresses immediately, no matter if they're from a residential IP or a datacenter.
Turdulator@reddit
Just to piggyback here, a service like mailchimp or on of their competitors would be ideal here.
TheLightingGuy@reddit
Can confirm. My old gig we had all of our automated emails for order notifications go through SMTP.com. on a dedicated IP. When there was a problem, they figured it out.
Minute_Foundation_99@reddit
We did similar with Mailgun for all transactional emails and a dedicated IP pool, made deliverability so much easier.
merlinddg51@reddit
Another piggyback here is that if a recipient domain sees 1k plus emails from a single domain they MAY flag it as spam. If it’s flagged as spam by other domains, there is a chance that domain would get blacklisted.
If a domain is blacklisted it takes a whole lot of emails and proof to get back on the whitelisting. Like talking to each ISP and Dmarc agency. (This is where I get fuzzy. I collect information for my boss and he communicates with the ones who black listed us)
Turdulator@reddit
Yeah that’s why products like mailchimp are key, they are extremely familiar with these kinds of issues, and all of the various big players in the spam filtering space are extremely familiar with mailchimp.
cosmos7@reddit
Using a sub-domain to preserve email reputation.
Irythros@reddit
That doesn't work. Domain reputation is based on root domain, not sub.
cosmos7@reddit
There is no fast and true standard here... vendors all do reputation differently. Subdomain at least gives you a chance to preserve the root if things go south.
daweinah@reddit
Also helpful for SPF's 10 record limit and not applying DMARC to your subdomains if your third parties suck at compliance (p=reject; sp=none)
anonymousITCoward@reddit
Can confirm this... whether or not you have a "cold" or "warm" IP, it's likely to get black listed, the domain too... I've had mail servers get listed on RBL's for less that 1000 emails being sent at once. IIRC, the lowest number was like in the mid 50s. Any time I hear the words "mass mailing" or "email campaign" I recommend constant contact or mail chimp.
BlackV@reddit
You don't
You use a separate sub domain to send the mail (with relevant dkim/dmarc/spf/etc)
You use a mail service
Doing this from your primary business domain is dumb (especially at 10k emails)
Consistent-Baby5904@reddit
because automation systems need to learn the introduction workloads
without enterprise adoption from vendors that could provide assisted leverage with already active cached server nodes that cross sync existing heavy loads, you're quality of service and continued delivery could take a massive hit with prying eyes
be safe, test in introductory rates and keep it steady for a while before increasing by test piloting at different times of the day
michaelpaoli@reddit
In a word: reputation
So, new kid on the block ... offer to do house sitting, pet sitting, and yard work, not for free of course, to not just the neighbors, but many many blocks around. So ... gonna trust that kid? ... with zero available track record?
SiriusCyberntx@reddit
We block all newly registered domains less than 30 days old.
Fit_Indication_2529@reddit
A big launch can be exciting. However, skipping the email warm-up can quickly ruin the entire effort. Sending an email without warming up can cause loss of momentum and wasted money. Email reputation works like a credit score for the sending domain. An individual with no financial history cannot ask a bank for a $500,000 loan. Building a history of trustworthiness requires small transactions first. In email, trust is built with mailbox providers in a similar way. Like others have said a mass mailing service is good for this. I have personally seen what happens when you don't.
What happens without building trust:
New senders are always suspicious. Every IP and domain starts with a neutral reputation. A new sender with high volume is treated with suspicion by systems like Gmail or Outlook. The response is to send the message to the junk folder or block it. Spam filters monitor volume spikes. Mailbox providers monitor sending habits. If a silent domain suddenly sends 10,000 emails, it looks like an attack. This triggers rate-limiting or permanent blacklisting. Blacklists are unforgiving. Aggressive sending from a new account triggers DNS blacklists like Spamhaus. Getting removed from these blacklists can take weeks or months, and emails will be blocked. The goal is to build a solid reputation first. A warm-up plan can establish you as a trusted sender. Then, when the campaign begins, the message will be delivered to the inbox.
Vesalii@reddit
You better have DMARC etc setup perfectly. Our IP is years old but because of a setup error we couldn't even email a newsletter to a few hundred people. I assume a 10k email can only end in catastrophe.
nico282@reddit
So the biggest risk is spam being flagged as spam? Lol go for it, what should you care if they think they know better.
Benificial-Cucumber@reddit
If it were just the spam emails being flagged I'd agree with you, but at my old MSP job it was almost a weekly occurrence dealing with companies that had their entire domain blacklisted and even legitimate emails remained undelivered.
nico282@reddit
OP said this is a new server dedicated to "marketing emails". The faster it gets flagged as spam, the better.
flunky_the_majestic@reddit
OP said this is new server. Not a new domain.
If they're mass marketing from a new domain: Fine, let them wreck it.
If they're sending from a domain OP is responsible for, or even a subdomain, then OP has a much greater stake in these practices.
Cyber_Faustao@reddit
Let them wreck it regardless. No sympathy for spammers
AncientWilliamTell@reddit
unless, of course, the marketing emails drive sales, and the sales deliver income, and the income pays your salary. Which is ... like ... 99% of the case for many many businesses.
Isord@reddit
It's not always spamming. My last company sent out marketing emails to people who signed up for it. It was a small company but we still had like 40k collected emails from people checking a box that explicitly says they are signing up for marketing material.
flunky_the_majestic@reddit
Many companies have marketing departments that, like it or not, keep the lights on. I don't claim to understand it, but lots of people respond to mass email marketing.
slonk_ma_dink@reddit
Lots of people respond to chronic diarrhea, too
Gadgetman_1@reddit
A lot of people would use the 'Mark as Spam' button in their system to get rid of emails from mailing lists they once subscribed to but were no longer interested in. When enough morons did this, things tended to happen.
Electrical_Media_367@reddit
This is a thing that spammers say. In actuality, almost no one "subscribes to mailing lists." They are unwillingly added to spam lists as a result of a transaction, marketing interaction or list buy. Just because I attended a conference or bought a thing from your website does not mean I consent to receiving toxic trash from your marketing goons for the rest of my life.
Gadgetman_1@reddit
They were much more popular a decade or two ago.
And there was a lot of specialised mailing lists. And yes, that was all opt-in lists.
I'm down to 4 now, I think.
One is 'Better than a Poke in the Eye', the continuation of the old Discworld Monthly.
Benificial-Cucumber@reddit
In fairness, we specialised in supporting real estate agencies and of all the industries in the world that can claim legitimate subscribers to their mailing lists, it's probably them. Even if you stripped the marketing crap out I'd be willing to bet a good 80% of their email output was the result of a "notify me of new properties matching my criteria" checkbox.
Electrical_Media_367@reddit
No. I get so much crap from real estate agents. If you ever go to an open house, they basically demand your email address and add you to a list. If you own a home, local agents are constantly sending you notices that they're selling houses in your neighborhood and how much you can make by selling yours. And if you've ever worked with an agent, their agency will spam you constantly.
Services like Zillow and Redfin? yes, people subscribe to searches there. MLS and your local Keller Williams site? No one is signing up for mail from them.
zephalephadingong@reddit
My experience in buying a house tells me otherwise. Maybe 4 months worth of legit emails, then 5 years worth of spam as they tend to think we want to buy another house, or know someone to send their way to buy one. Well it would be 5 years, but I marked them as spam after the first couple of months.
technobrendo@reddit
If the entire domain is flagged what do you do to remedy that?
Evil-Bosse@reddit
Don't send spam in the first place if you don't want your domain associated with sending spam.
technobrendo@reddit
You're absolutely right about that. However in the context of my question, I was more referring to what happened if you got flagged in general, not that you were spamming emails per se.
Just my luck, at work we are getting some emails getting flagged and going to junk currently. Yay me.
ReputationNo8889@reddit
send spam via a seperate domain or subdomain. Or just dont send spam im general...
PresNixon@reddit
Bonus if the subdomain is spam.mycompany.com :P
LegoNinja11@reddit
You send from mailshot1.domain.com to avoid the issue in the first place.
reddit-trk@reddit
If receiving domains send the postmaster (you) an email about it, they'll include ways to address it. Otherwise, you'll know about the issue because someone on the receiving end will complain that legit emails are going to their spam folder. In this case, you start googling how to get your IP/Domain de-listed from spam databases.
Benificial-Cucumber@reddit
Assuming it's one of those internet "spam police" watchers, there's usually a cooldown period that you have to wait out. You only get perma-banned if you're a repeat offender.
I believe there's an appeals process but I've never used it, and I no longer work with companies too tight to pay for mailshot services.
Adorable-Lake-8818@reddit
You turn around and reply back to each company / email service that has you black listed and repeal it. *shrug* Sometimes management wants to do what marketing says. Just document your suggestion that you guys shouldn't do it, and the reason (obvious to all of us, but wtf does management care when marketing says to do it).
Kraeftluder@reddit
Good.
Benificial-Cucumber@reddit
You say that, but when the "spam" in question is a mailshot about your holiday opening hours it gets dicey quickly. You'd be surprised at how little it takes to get shut down at times.
zephalephadingong@reddit
I mean, that sounds like spam to me. What's the difference between a legitimate email and spam? Its all in the eye of the recipient.
Kraeftluder@reddit
Should've thought about that before becoming a spammer.
gumbrilla@reddit
I'm still not seeing why I'd actually care. Self inflicted. I mean I suppose you'd try to help them, as you're being paid, but I don't think I'd care all that much. I'd enjoy explaining the problem they got themselves in tho...
Benificial-Cucumber@reddit
Self inflicted or not, I'm still the one paid to untie the knot they get themselves into unfortunately.
jbldotexe@reddit
Which makes little to no difference if you're salaried. I swear half of my job is malicious compliance for the sake of appeasing the business.
Negative_Call584@reddit
Because they’re the client and you are being paid to support them? If they still insist on proceeding having been made aware of the potential risks then crack on and enjoy the crisis pay when it all caves in - but you should absolutely care.
Adorable-Lake-8818@reddit
I'm just waiting for us to get blacklisted one day. Not that I care that much. Marketing wanted to push to get the ability to send from our main domain. They won. Okay, now I'm just sitting back and playing cards and keeping an eye out for the day I get to say "I warned you this could happen"... meanwhile, now their documenting all the stuff that particular marketing person is doing on the side. *shrug* Games is apparently all we play around here.
nep909@reddit
You say that as if it were a bad thing. That is the least of what they deserve.
ultimatebob@reddit
Yeah, 10,000 marketing e-mails from a unknown IP address with no trust score? If you try to send them all on the same day, you're probably going to end up on Comcast, GMail, and Yahoo block lists almost instantly.
Caeremonia@reddit
Yahoo has already blocked them just from hearing about this reddit thread. Yahoo is insane about their email policies.
yawara25@reddit
Yahoo is still around?
ultimatebob@reddit
Yahoo Mail used to be the e-mail provider for anyone who had an SBC Global (now at&t) ISP account. So, there are still millions of active accounts out there.
nico282@reddit
north7@reddit
No, if they are sending from the same domain and/or IP they use for their enterprise email they could get blacklisted everywhere.
That means emails sent from their enterprise accounts could get quarantined at email gateways everywhere - clients will stop getting their email.
nico282@reddit
OP says he wants to warm up the IP and domain, so I understand they are not using the corporate one.
thatpaulbloke@reddit
I remember a wonderful conversation nearly a decade ago where a client demanded to know why Spamhaus was flagging their spam email sender as spam when it sent out thousands of spam emails and the only answer I could give them was, "because it works".
anonymousITCoward@reddit
Because even if you want them, they'll come back and blame you for it...
Yake404@reddit
Agreed with the commenter here. You expressed your concerns and they still dont care, so I would just let it ride.
PrimaryBrief7721@reddit
Depending on the service, but from experience with this using Microsoft (because marketing forgets or just doesnt listen) - the emails will be flagged a spam/phishing, an you will get a warning from Microsoft if they dont stop what they are doing immediately the email address will be blocked. They wont get to send anywhere near the 10K planned lol.
Grrl_geek@reddit
And then they'll have to pay you more for your time to clean it up. 《EVIL.CACKLE HERE!!》
vonkeswick@reddit
Yeah, just as long as you have written proof like an email chain saying this is not gonna go well for them, you can pull out a professional "fucking told ya so!" later on
gex80@reddit
Simple. You don't know the reputation of the IP you're using and neither do the spam appliances. If the IP had a bad rep in the past, you want to show spam lists a slow ramp up instead of popping on the internet randomly like spammers.
Your risk of being blacklisted is directly proportional to the reputation of the IP and the activity that take place on it.
grep65535@reddit
don't "convince" them, just communicate the risk and wash your hands of it.
The risk should be in terms they understand. The risk and associated confidence that the risk will be a reality is very high that your marketing campaign won't reach the majority of the target audience because spam filtering will shoot it down...etc...or whatever it is.
If you're IT or equivalent, your job is done on the persuasion end of things.
garthoz@reddit
Your going to need SPF work , DKIM and a number of other DNS related stuff. Even with all of that in place there is a possibility you may be blacklisted .
dustojnikhummer@reddit
Yeah your IP is getting blacklisted in a few seconds. They really need to use an actual paid mail marketing service for this.
clintonfan@reddit
You'll get blacklisted almost instantly. A huge volume of mail from a brand new, unknown IP is the number one spammer signal for any filter. Your server's IP will get torched and their domain reputation will be in the toilet. It can take months to fix. Just tell them it's standard procedure. We automate the whole ramp-up for clients with Warmy. It's way cheaper than dealing with the fallout from a blacklisted IP.
catwiesel@reddit
Sorry, but you are being paid for your expertise, which seems not perfect, but decent enough to suggest "warming up the mail server", and you are being told no, waste of time.
Do you have the feeling you need ammo? Were they asking why and you could not explain? Because it sounds to me like they dont want to listen to the person they are paying to advise them.
So, why continue? sometimes you just have CYA and then watch the train wreck.
I think gathering detailed explanations is a waste of time when the first discussion was "no" and not "okay, why? oh you dont know? then no"
Iam_feysal@reddit (OP)
Okay got it.
NoDoze-@reddit
LOL You're going to get the IP blacklisted quick. You can't do mass mailing on a single ip, you need a subnet. Then the sending auto rotate between the ips at a rate that won't trigger spam or blacklisting.
PurpleCableNetworker@reddit
Part of me says put in an email once saying “this isn’t a good idea. It will get blocked. We should outsource this.” Then when they demand it go ahead and do it… and watch it all fall apart. But that’s just me. I’m petty like that.
ghostgurlboo@reddit
Despite sending limits, Microsoft uses heuristics to flag suspicious sending patterns till it learns what is expected. Even sending under the max limit per day can get you flagged, the account blocked from sending, and a lot of dropped emails. It's ill-advised not to go with a marketing mail service like Mailchimp because it risks your domain health if consistently flagged.
jooooooohn@reddit
This is what places like mailgun or smtp2go are for. Use a service to minimize the chance of being flagged.
Long_Start_3142@reddit
This is dumb use SMTP2GO
AustinGroovy@reddit
"It's a waste of time".
Well, when 90% of your outbound mail campaign goes to the junk or quarantine folder, you'll know why.
You can show them how to setup SPF/DKIM/DMARC - the "Triad of security". If you don't follow these rules, Gmail and Yahoo will not deliver them. If they aren't going to be delivered, then why spend time creating an email campaign in the first place?
rp_001@reddit
We use Postmark for this sort of thing Mass mailing from your own server may lead to issues
2BoopTheSnoot2@reddit
Put your recommendations in writing and have them sign that they are declining your recommendation, so when you get stuck fixing their mess they can't argue about your billable hours.
Artistic-Wrap-5130@reddit
Never, ever, ever send mass emailings via your own private domain. You're just asking to be blacklisted and it's a pain to get off blacklists of not never. There's companies whose entire job it is to send your emails without blacklisting your own company domain. Use them.
tunaman808@reddit
Yeah, make it Mailchimp's problem!
1a2b3c4d_1a2b3c4d@reddit
LOL. That just isn't going to work well. You need to research email reputation score or sender score. Its been a while since I managed this.
Save_The_Wicked@reddit
IP and possibly the owned domain gets added to blacklists and no one's emails servers will accept the messages.
Not to mention if they send out marketing materials without the receiver being able to unsubscribe, they could be breaking US state and federal laws. Also possibly EU laws.
zephalephadingong@reddit
Use a spam service to send out spam or get blacklisted. Mailchimp is the one I'm most familiar with, but there are plenty of ways to send spam in a "legit" way
lesusisjord@reddit
Why not use marketo, sendgrid, etc‽
IID10TError@reddit
Probably 80% of their emails will be marked as spam or undelivered. DNS wouldn’t propagate in time. Lots of other reasons why. I know it’s not your role, but if they hear that only 15% or so of their 10k marketing emails will be successfully delivered, I’d say that should cause enough alarm for them to just wait a little longer. Is it worth their investment to waste?
Tatermen@reddit
Reputation lists. Some antispam systems have a reputation lookup. They track the IP address of mail senders, coroborated with volume of emails and percentage of spam/viruses.
Some will also implement rate limiting based on reputation - so a brand new mail server may only be allowed to deliver a handful of emails every minute/hour/day - and if you have a lot of recipients using the same system (eg. O365), it may take days or weeks to deliver all 10k emails, which will really fuck up most marketing campaigns.
countsachot@reddit
I just came to mirror that you'll get blacklisted, don't do it from a primary domain. I've had clients get blacklisted with a fraction of what is planned for you.
As, far as a " warm up" I would wait 72 hours to ensure the planet's dns has synced. It's usually faster than that, but you don't want the blame of lost emails.
rostol@reddit
are we really helping spammers now ?
this is a new low.
Mrhiddenlotus@reddit
who and in what way is anyone here helping spammers?
Cyber_Faustao@reddit
1) Half the users in this thread? 2) By giving advice on how to not get immediatly blacklisted?
Mrhiddenlotus@reddit
The spammers already know that better than anyone else in this thread. Do you think new spammers will be inspired by this post? They would have a lot of catching up to do.
FarmboyJustice@reddit
Honestly I'd just tell them they're likely to get blocked and maybe blacklisted, and let them do what they want. Then charge them for the service of helping clean up their reputation later on. Reasoning with marketing people tends not to go well, they're like excitable children.
0RGASMIK@reddit
We had a customer hire a new marketing guy. The customer was already semi aware of the concept of spam/ warming up a domain because they accidentally trashed a few domains before us but this new marketing guy wouldn’t listen to reason.
Fortunately the customer side channeled us and just told us to do our best to isolate his campaign from their main domain. I think we just put it on a sub domain or another shitty domain they bought.
Within 2 weeks it was already getting Blacklisted and who was at our door complaining about it, the marketing guy. We reexplained everything again, he still didn’t get it. He looped in the main contact the main contact said to listen to us. I forget what happened but he ended up quitting or getting fired shortly after that all I remember is hearing that his email campaign was so hated by recipients that people reached out to corporate try and get off the mailing list.
igloofu@reddit
All I can think of is this marketing guy trying to sell a mattress.
AdComprehensive2138@reddit
Yep. This will happen. And when it does its going to require at least X amount of hours at X rate to unfuck it for you - for that instance...and then. The same or more when it happens again. And probably the 3rd time....no more email. OR. We use X service or we use a subdomain.
Another point. They also need an option in marketing email for people to unsubscribe to stay compliant
j0nquest@reddit
This is the truth. They come up with often bad ideas, and to their own detriment refuse to accept feedback from subject matter experts. Let them fail big.
mohirl@reddit
I'm assuming the email addresses have been properly sourced and have all opted in to marketing
Otherwise I'd be more worried about getting paid first, because the client is going to make approximately £fuckall from the marketing push
73-68-70-78-62-73-73@reddit
You warm up IPs and domains so you don't immediately get blacklisted when your client brutally spams a 10k address "client list".
BerkeleyFarmGirl@reddit
Oh wow way to ensure that a lot of recipients black hole that mail. Our spam filters do account for "brand new domain" and if they're lucky the mail would be quarantined by the recipient mail server.
If I saw a big ol marketing push in my filters I'd probably delete it.
And honestly they are better off using a third party mailing service like hubspot and using a subdomain. That way if the marketing blast lands you on spam lists (likely) the main mail should be ok.
(Mailer services have better scheduling etc. type features, as well.)
JeverFunBier@reddit
„Cisco talos“ for example monitor the increase of send mails of a mailserver in e.g. the last day. If its too high, the sending mailserver is verdicted to send spam and may be added to the black list. I guess cisco ESA mail-relays will include rhem in some mechanisms to tag mails as spam (not sure if cisco talos is used for SBR score)
entanglemint@reddit
I would ignore the "told-ya" comments. It is absolutely reasonable for a customer to ask you to justify an operation, and you should be able to defend it. I would make sure to have an email thread around this like:
"If we do not take the steps I recommend the following consequences are possible.... With this advisement, please provide me with explicit instruction as to how you would like to proceed with this deployment."
mikeputerbaugh@reddit
Being an email admin is more than knowing which packages to install and which ports to open to get an SMTP service running. You need to be conversant with concepts like DKIM, DMARC, and SPF to deliver what your client has asked for.
boli99@reddit
dont market from a primary domain (example.foo)
send your marketing from a subdomain (m.example.foo) , using a 3rd party mailer service.
...because when your marketing (i.e. spam) gets flagged as spam because it absolutely is spam - you dont want your main mail domain and server(s) getting blacklisted.
halap3n0@reddit
A mass mailing service like uptics warm up domains and mailboxes for months. Yes it’s necessary.
milf_dildozer@reddit
For that quantity of outbound mail, don’t you really need to use a service like constantcontact to avoid getting flagged for spam?
meikyoushisui@reddit
this is excellent advice, /u/milf_dildozer
Iam_feysal@reddit (OP)
That’s a good idea.
MakeItJumboFrames@reddit
And use a sub domain. Newsletter@makretijg.contoso.com or something instead of using the domain itself.
vrtigo1@reddit
This this this this!!!!
So many marketing types will push back for absolutely no reason simply because they don't understand e-mail reputation. Don't let the marketing team influence your corporate mail delivery with their spamming!
flunky_the_majestic@reddit
To be fair, email reputation is a bit of a dark art. It's essentially implementing a bunch of authentication, then making a bunch of assumptions about what spam filters consider important. They don't exactly publish their heuristics.
vrtigo1@reddit
But none of that really matters when the marketing team turns their intern that knows absolutely nothing about email marketing loose. He sends a massive campaign, gets your IP reputation destroyed and marketing gets all bent out of shape because “email is broken”.
Catatonic27@reddit
Won't a subdomain just get the parent domain blocked? I.E: Instead of blocking makretijg.contoso.com, won't they just block *.contoso.com? Otherwise it seems like subdomains would be a get-out-of-jail-free card for domain block lists. I can make new subdomains all day every day for free.
flunky_the_majestic@reddit
Each vendor will handle this scenario their own way. There is no industry standard for email domain reputation. A couple years ago, I read up on a bunch of anecdotal evidence while planning email delivery for our marketing team. From what I can tell, reputation flows down to subdomains much easier than a subdomain's reputation flowing up to the parent. My understanding is that, if you abuse the leniency provided to subdomains, it will eventually get the parent blacklisted.
If messages from contoso.com are always person-to-person, messages from marketing.contoso.com are always marketing, and you don't bring up lots of additional subdomains for marketing, then contoso.com should retain its reputation.
Beginning_Ad1239@reddit
It's typically a good way to handle things like promotional material. Nobody's going to block the parent domain for that. Now flagrant spam, that's another story.
Downinahole94@reddit
I found this was a must. My marketing team would destroy my domains reputation if they were using our @.
We use MailChimp.
AuPo_2@reddit
FYI, pretty sure constant contact makes you remove MFA off all mailboxes. It was a year ago I tried working with them so things may have changed…
mirrorbirdjesus@reddit
Funny enough constant contact has issues with routing through a bad server you can find all over online that was a headache for us
BarracudaDefiant4702@reddit
Not really, we send over 200k/day outbound mail and if we had more customers we would send more. Staying under 10k/day sounds about a right rate to warm up with for a cold IP. That's all assuming it's legitimate email and users signed up for the marketing emails.
bjc1960@reddit
to this, we block outgoing emails in M365 at something like 40/hour, except for those in HR/finance to keep people from getting ideas like spamming from our domain.
binaryhextechdude@reddit
We have a specific AD group that specific people are added to if they need to mass send. Otherwise they're blocked similar to your setup
Jaereth@reddit
I'd just let it play out. Have them sign off they elected to skip a warm up and let them go to town.
It's likely to make more work for you! Also, who cares! Reputation services will mark their spam server as spam. All will be right with nature.
whallenberg@reddit
Microsoft does this now via Azure Mail Service. Not sure how effective it is yet since it just came out.
Zenin@reddit
Is this post from the 1990s? Agree with everyone else: 0% chance even a single one of those 10k messages gets delivered anywhere no matter how much warm up you do.
There's a reason why every single public cloud provider blocks outbound port 25 entirely by default.
A new domain is bad enough (yes, that does need to get "warmed up"), but there's zero chance you're bring up a new email server in 2025. You'll get perma-blacklisted before the first message gets past the first hop. For marketing you absolutely require an established email marketing platform to send your messages for you just to get started.
No matter how small or how big your organization is, there is absolutely no good reason to be running your own email services today. SaaS 100% of the time. From my personal accounts to my small business clients to my F500 day job, absolutely no one even thinks about running their own mail server anymore and hasn't even considered it for over a decade.
jocke92@reddit
Setup marketing on a subdomain. Use an email marketing service like MailChimp and setup according to their guidelines. Their IPs have the correct reputation hopefully.
And it's good to let the domain age. But they probably bought the domain to secure the name earlier. Some firewalls have options for blocking newly registered domains. But don't know what is considered new
ScreamingVoid14@reddit
So, for the version that manglement might actually understand:
LordCornish@reddit
Can't speak to the cold IP, but I can tell you that we block all email from domains that are less than 60 days old.
immortalsteve@reddit
half of your recipient's systems will reject your shit automatically because of spam filtering, dmarc, etc. Assuming you get mass-flagged for spamming, your entire org's domain reputation could potentially be effected by that.
el0_0le@reddit
Bro found the fastest way to the Spam folder.
GamerLymx@reddit
for microsoft from non microsoft? they will be mostly rejected I guess
Ron-Swanson-Mustache@reddit
I had to deal with something like this a few years ago when I went from MPLS to SDWAN with on prem Exchange. Even with a 3rd party hosted mailing for marketing emails, we dropped down to 60% pass rate.
I ended up having to use MXToolbox to help understand the situation. I also used their hosted SPF to allow for quick changes and not having to wait for DNS replication every time I made a change.
I also had to get rDNS set up, but ATT DIA was surprising in the lack of understanding of setting that up. Even Comcast business was able to get that set up with one call. ATT DIA took multiple teams, a bunch of research from our account manager, and several calls over a couple of days.
Even then, I was chasing black lists for months.
RemyJe@reddit
Huh?
If you’re referring to reputation, unless the IP is already on a list, you’ll be fine. You don’t need to develop a good reputation, just avoid a bad one.
If you’re referring to a soak or burn-in period, that’s just to make sure everything is working okay before putting serious load on it, but I don’t think that really applies for outgoing mail.
haroldp@reddit
gmail (and others) will greylist and spambox your messages if you send a lot of email from a domain with no history with them.
Many (shitty) corpo mail filtering services will bounce mail from recently registered domains.
Rackspace will bounce messages over just a couple a day coming from new (to them) IPs. You have to "warm" the IP slowly.
Mail admins out there just making wild shit up, and delivering valid email is at the bottom of their priority list.
Hi!
RemyJe@reddit
This guy… :)
haroldp@reddit
On the other hand, 10k messages isn't really that much. That's probably only 5k to gmail and if OP otherwise has his ducks in a row (DNS, SPF, DKIM, DMARC, yadda yadda) he'll likely get away with it.
The_Wkwied@reddit
Just confirm, they want to spin up a mail server, and then send out a bunch of what could be considered spam, with no historical record of not sending spam?
They want to start right out of the gate by sending what can be considered spam?
Just confirm that with them. Then kindly let them know that other people, the internet people, who aren't with the company and who you have no way to contact, who are the same people that rate email servers as spammers, may flag your brand new server as a spam server because it is sending out what-appear-to-be-spam. And that once they do this, your new not-spam email server is going to be blacklisted by gmail, microsoft, etc.
Just confirm that. If they are aware, and they are OK, well you got it in writing. Feel free to send-all.
stupidic@reddit
Make sure you have your SPF, DMARC & DKIM set up otherwise you'll be instablocked. The world doesn't care if you're sending from a new domain/new IP if you have set up the proper records showing its legit. I really think warming up an IP is passé now that we have the resource records that give the source IP/Domain legitimacy.
CrewSevere1393@reddit
The emails being marked as spam by 365 (and i’m not even talking about the spam rules of the receiving server). Increased possibility of the receiver actually marking it as spam even when it does come through..
But honestly, it is not important to you: you advised them not to, if they still do it.. their loss.
bkrank@reddit
DMARC, DKIM & SPF, are the best modern methods to validate email servers, but I’m sure many legacy mail servers still use IP reputation as a factor. Using a 3rd party marketing mailer like hubspot or constant contact are probably more widely used for volume like that.
Iam_feysal@reddit (OP)
I’ll look into it
PippinStrano@reddit
Also make sure the sending IPs pass FCrDNS. Finally, set your delivery rate to send those 10k emails over the full 24 hours, or longer if you can. Oh, and the emails should have legitimate unsubscribes. I'm an email security SME for a federal department, and that (along with good SPF, DKIM and DMARC with a reject policy) is what I use when confirming if a sender is malicious or not.
That stated, MS will still probably junk mail a lot of the email, but they do that to legitimate email too. More mature filtering engines (Cisco's CASE, Proof point, etc) will identify it as legitimate soon enough.
ForerEffect@reddit
The comment you’re replying to is probably based on some misconceptions, it doesn’t quite make sense.
DMARC, DKIM, & SPF are used to validate that an email was sent by the owner (or with permission of the owner of) the 5322.From domain, the 5321.From domain, and the DKIM signature domain(s). (Also a few other things, but I’m staying on topic)
Not having these proofs makes your emails look untrustworthy and risky, but having them does not automatically make them look trustworthy and wanted, spammers and phishers are absolutely capable of setting up authentication on their emails (just not other people‘s authentication).
The reputation and history (no history = bad history) of the IP, domains, and content patterns in the email are a whole separate issue, no matter how airtight your authentication is.
BarracudaDefiant4702@reddit
10k/day isn't much. That's about what you can expect to do without warming up a domain/IP. Delivery will probably be delay on some by several hours but they will get through as long as first recipients don't mark it as spam. If you wanted to do 100k on day one, then you probably should go through a service if you can't ease into that rate over a few months.
cubic_sq@reddit
Usually only an issue if the mass mail provider is recycling an IP from a previous customer.
MorallyDeplorable@reddit
This post sounds like the blind leading the deaf, you should go with a hosted e-mail provider
Hotshot55@reddit
Next time you should try researching before giving an answer.
flunky_the_majestic@reddit
It sounds like this happened in a brief meeting, where OP gave a sensible first answer.
Marketing (who knows almost nothing about email best practices): "We're going to send a crap ton of messages from your server starting tomorrow. Get ready."
OP (who has had limited contact with mass mailing systems, but understands the gist of best practices): "Umm... We need to warm up that IP and domain first."
Marketing: "This is important to us. Let's discuss it this afternoon and make a plan."
OP: "Reddit, help!"
Hotshot55@reddit
Sure, that's when you say something factual. Not just some excuse of needing to "warm up a mailbox".
flunky_the_majestic@reddit
That's not really an excuse, though. It is absolutely a legitimate concern.
zomiaen@reddit
I worked for an anti-spam SaaS for 7 years. Do not do this. You will burn the IP forever.
WoefulHC@reddit
Many mail services will block domains (and IPs) that have not been live for at least a day or two. Like it doesn't even get to a spam filter, the connection just gets dropped. If you have informed them of this and they still want to proceed, make sure you get it in writing. They WILL blame you.
As another commenter suggested, this sort of push is much better handled using a paid mass mailing service. Get their sign off on only getting 500-1000 delivered of the 10k. (Those that are delivered will likely all get flagged as spam.) If they think leaving the server/IP/domain live for a few days is a waste of money, it seems they should recognize that using them immediately (and paying the electricity costs) and having effectively 0 delivered is more of a waste.
(Note, I worked for a mail filtering company. General rule is you reject/flag the mail as soon as possible because that saves your resources. New IP is a great way to do that during the initial connection.)
largos7289@reddit
You'll be put on a blacklist of known spammers.
ohyeahwell@reddit
"Oh, but this isn't spam, this is our marketing email!"
My bosses are convinced people love our promotional emails. Check out the stats.
ohyeahwell@reddit
Estraight to email jail
hops_on_hops@reddit
Sounds like spam, even from your description. And that is how all the consumer email providers will see it.
jay0lee@reddit
The direct answer to your question is "because Google and other consumer email services recommend it to bulk senders". See:
https://support.google.com/a/answer/81126?hl=en
And the "Increase sending volume slowly" section for Google's recommendations.
The RIGHT answer for your customer, as noted in earlier posts is to use a commercial service like Constant Contact, SendGrid or MailChimp (these are examples, not endorsements) to offload the vast complexity of bulk email and abuse avoidance.
flunky_the_majestic@reddit
Good work, citing an authority. This is the no-nonsense answer.
CheeksMcGillicuddy@reddit
First step: don’t send 10k emails out of your tenant. There is a reason there is an entire dedicated subset of the industry that does only this.
rw_mega@reddit
I don’t believe it’s the mailbox that needs to be warmed up. But ip and domain, make sure DNS and MX records are correct.
Most companies have filters for “newly observed domain” which would cause emails to be caught in spam/quarantine filters.
Check with ipabuse sites online make sure your ip is not listed there, etc
ExceptionEX@reddit
Best way to slam your whole domain is to try to do bulk market mailing from your tenant. This is best left to using 3rd party services.
As far as "warming up" unless you have years, to do it, you aren't really gaining much. It's all going to get blocked anyway.
Longjumping_Ear6405@reddit
No amount of "ammo" will change their mind. Instead, steer them in the direction of a mass mailer. How much will they lose if most of their emails get rejected and the domain reputation tanks? If they share the same domain name for their websites, it will also negatively impact their site score. So, it's up to them which pain is greater.
nermalstretch@reddit
It’s up to them. You won’t know until you try. Maybe all their mail will go through or maybe it will all get blocked. You won’t really know until you try.
If there was a good answer, spammers would use it and succeed in spamming from day one.
stickytack@reddit
They should never be sending out that many emails from their mail server. This should be done through a mass mailing service such as mailchimp or similar.
huntinwabbits@reddit
I would go as far as saying that this is misuse of the companies IT infrastructure.
Sending 10k emails from your own mail server willl cause problems,there are services that exist for this very reason that will not only handle the delivery, but will allow marketing access to reports on the mail campaign.
reddit-trk@reddit
Also, be sure that postmaster@your_domain.com is an actual mailbox on your end before attempting this. Some receiving domains will send notifications there and you want them, because they usually include information on how to get de-listed, which you most certainly will need.
WithAnAitchDammit@reddit
Follow their instructions to the letter.
Be sure to update with the link to r/MaliciousCompliance so we can laugh at the fallout.
Man-e-questions@reddit
Oh at first thought you were talking about hydrating a new tenant
bshea@reddit
Tech consequences is that the outbound IP will be blacklisted -if- you are sending (too much) spam -> that is too many "unsolicited emails". Marketing emails? Sounds spammy to me.
I notice some saying to use a service. Well, most services will also tell you not to send unsolicited emails, or your service will end (it will record bounces and reports from bigger ESPs and blocklists against your sending IP(s) to determine your "spam level"). In other words: if you use an outbound service or not - don't get caught sending spam.
So, using a service matters little if you are sending legitimate emails to legitimate users. In bulk or not.
If these people are intending to spam people, I can't help you further.
reddit-trk@reddit
At the very least the new IP should be checked to see if it's blacklisted anywhere before sending a single email from it. When I moved my domains to a new host I found out the hard way that the IP address I got was previously used for spam.
Took me a couple of weeks to get, if I'm not mistaken, Microsoft and Google to de-list it.
If your IP's first action will be to send 10,000 emails, be ready for a world of pain, from companies relaying to their clients to your own ISP (I would read the fine print on that contract).
Like u/snebsnek said, a paid mailer is the way to go.
zarlo5899@reddit
well my email server would gray list your domains and block your ip
CyberHouseChicago@reddit
Your emails will all land in spam , no new mail server can send 10k emails in a day and not land in spam
nighthawke75@reddit
OP, why don't you feed me your mail server's IP and domains they are going to use to spam from, so I can set them on my anti-spam filters?
Just asking.
Krassix@reddit
let them do as they want and when the IP and domain gets blacklisted you just say:"I told you so"
SomeGuy_SomeTime@reddit
My Cisco systems will bl9ck the email if the domain age is too young. Brand new systems sending out lots of mail will get flagged as spam and blocked/quarantined by most systems because that's what scammers/spam generators do.
cats_are_the_devil@reddit
What happened to the old one? LOL
I can almost guarantee this is a new setup because the old one got blacklisted...
Use constant contact.
Public_Fucking_Media@reddit
Because of all the new rules that Google and Microsoft have put in place around email deliverability.
If you don't follow them, your emails won't make it to people in the first place.
https://support.google.com/a/answer/81126
https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/blog/microsoftdefenderforoffice365blog/strengthening-email-ecosystem-outlook%e2%80%99s-new-requirements-for-high%e2%80%90volume-senders/4399730
Walbabyesser@reddit
Spamfilter and -lists exist?
AndiAtom@reddit
Never send newsletters, marketing stuff through exchange IP!
Always use a third party service like mailchimp or whatnot.
Iam_feysal@reddit (OP)
Got it.
BarracudaDefiant4702@reddit
Is this exchange or o365? Microsoft has very tight caps on o365, and although exchange on prem is better, it's not the best option IMHO for sending out bulk email (although 10k is barely bulk). If it's going through linux servers there is less concerns as there is generally better control over the flow, but it is generally better to have different IPs setup for transactional emails and newsletters and marketing stuff so a bad reputation on one will less likely cause the destination isp to block the other.
loupgarou21@reddit
If you haven't already, do a blacklist check on the IP you're planning on sending from. There's a good chance it's already blacklisted on something like UCEPROTECTL3, which blacklists whole ranges from an ISP if neighboring IPs are sending spam.
Also, use a mass mailing service for marketing emails, that's what they're there for.
dracotrapnet@reddit
Let them do it, I don't care to see the spam.
After_Opinion4912@reddit
just recommend them to do some stress tests if they are setting a bulk send, they can check if they getting black listed or if the servers can load the balance properly
if they dont want to listen, their fault
craigleary@reddit
You could just link to Hotmail postmaster tools https://sendersupport.olc.protection.outlook.com/pm/troubleshooting
“Are you sending email from new IPs? IPs not previously used to send email typically don't have any reputation built up in our systems. As a result, emails from new IPs are more likely to experience deliverability issues. Once the IP has built a reputation for not sending spam, Outlook.com will typically allow for a better email delivery experience. “
notHooptieJ@reddit
its not unless you're a spammer.
In which case, its a slimy slimy grey area.
IT_info@reddit
Do not send marketing and sales from a mail server that a company users need for regular emails. Use mailgun or sendgrid or mailjet. Those send more automated emails you can use with other marketing tools. Or have them use constant contact or mailchimp or HubSpot if they want to login and just configure and start the email blasting. When you go to set any of those up, make sure to setup a new subdomain with the proper mx records, txt (spf/dkim) etc. The service will usually walk you through it. The end user won’t know what to do since they will need access to the DNS settings.
BarracudaDefiant4702@reddit
10k is nothing, that's almost what you need to warm up with if you are going to do a big email marketing push. A big email marketing would be closer to 1+ million... The problem is if it's marketing mail, which means it will likely get blacklisted quickly if recipients don't like it and didn't sign up for it. All the unique domains will be fine, it's the big ones like gmail you have to be more careful with. I bet you half the email addresses are gmail... You definitely want to get DKIM, DMARC, and SPF setup correctly. Send some test emails through gmail and make sure all the tests pass before doing a bulk email to gmail. I think gmail looks closely at about 5,000/day. If less that 5k of your 10k messages are to gmail, you barely have to worry if you setup everything else right. Also make sure it's easy to unsubscribe. If you are going to be doing more than 5,000 messages to gmail you should warm up your domain and probably limit it to a few thousand a day and gradually increase it.
recoveringasshole0@reddit
Been in IT for 30 years, including lots of web design and hosting, and I've never heard of this. But I've also never been a spammer, so 🤷
bbqwatermelon@reddit
Having dealt with the effects of using an unknown IP, all prominent mail hosts quarantine mail automatically even with full identity alignment using SPF, DKIM, DMARC, and MTA-STS. The MTA that I had configured, luckily, was destined primarily for our Exchange Online destination so I was able to add a rule to bypass the anti-spam but any other mail host would not have been possible. I never really saw a way to warm the IP manually it just happened eventually. If the goal is to send mail right away, they've got to use an established service, there is no way around it I'm afraid.
ThecaptainWTF9@reddit
Just do what they ask and when it’s a problem, you get to say “told you so”.
They should be using a mass mailing service with a dedicated IP that they can alone curate the reputation for.
aeroverra@reddit
Marketing always knows better. Just let them send it
R2-Scotia@reddit
Having run a big email service, you don't want to insource mass email delivery.
JustSomeGuyFromIT@reddit
Simple. Go to https://talosintelligence.com/reputation_center/email_rep and search for your public IP and mail server. Any company using a mail filter based on this system to verify will mark their marketing mails as spam.
Ergo it's a waste of money to do this quick and dirty.
randomlyme@reddit
Reputation scoring is why it matters, anime spinning up a new IP and mail service stats off in the SPAM penalty box. The first big move being an email marketing campaign shows exactly why.
uuhicanexplain@reddit
Even mail servers or services designed for this kind of mails (if dedicated to you) will not work when starting to blast 10k mails out on day one. Most of the recipients boxes will block you quickly. It has to grow slowly over time to get good delivery rates.
Rabiesalad@reddit
Document the discussion and then do what client wants.
BigBobFro@reddit
Getting tagged as a spam sender by ISPs like verizon who then will refuse to route their emails.
With zero reputation, verizon will see the sudden surge and think a node was bot pwnd and kill contact.
illicITparameters@reddit
Bro, what?? Why are you not suggesting they use a third party like SendGrid or something to distribute mass mailings? All you're gonna do is set them up to get that IP flagged.
Gainside@reddit
cold send = high chance of bulk folder, throttling, or outright blocklisting. once you’re flagged, digging out of the hole takes way longer than just warming up properly in the first place.
egoomega@reddit
It’s all great until larger domains see your spam and just start blacklisting your ip
arslearsle@reddit
Well, they will be blocked and blacklisted 😂
Use a proper service like mailchimp instead
derango@reddit
What they really need is to use an actual service to do this so their domain doesn't get black listed instantly.
thegreatcerebral@reddit
Use a 3rd party for it. You are going to get blacklisted so quick.
Moubai@reddit
becareful of the new 2024 rules for google & yahoo about markerting email, even if you are using services like mailchimp/mailjet/whatever https://support.google.com/a/answer/81126?hl=en
This one is very important : To set up one-click unsubscribe for Gmail messages, include both of these headers in outgoing messages:
_DoogieLion@reddit
Technical consequences would be them straight up getting blocked by many mail gateways.
Mimecast, proof point, Microsoft all have “new domain” blocks that will for example flag domains less than 7 or 30 days old.
Their deliverability will be poor.
TechInTheCloud@reddit
You ask the client: would you like your marketing emails to not get delivered or go to the recipients spam folders?
Then you tell them internal email systems are not for marketing email blasts, they should be using a platform for that, constant contact, mailchimp, etc. there are like a million solutions for it.
That is if they want a chance their targets might see their marketing message. If they don’t care about that, just want to send some spam nobody will ever see, have at it.
Iam_feysal@reddit (OP)
Okay
RaNdomMSPPro@reddit
Many email filters consider domains less than x days old (ours are set at 30 days) as an additional factor in determining if the email is spam - pair that with an initial volume of spam and deliverability will not be 100%. Might create a problem that lasts longer than expected as emails get reported.
smf1978@reddit
Blocklist operator here... don't do that. It's pretty simple really - new high volume IPs sending SMTP pop up all of the time, they're 95% infected/compromised machines. Professional spam operations purchase domains, sit on them for a bit and then do a huge spam run. If you get a new IP and new domain and send high volumes, you're going to get listed by services like the one I run and you will call foul of IP reputation machine learning at places like Google and Microsoft and you'll be in a world of pain when that happens - because they'll affect you long after services like mine have delisted you.
And for those talking about DKIM, SPF and DMARC won't have any affect at all if you're using a new domain - then the domain has *zero* reputation, so they get treated far more aggressively as they're far more likely to be spam or malicious.
As everyone else states though - if you want to do it "properly", then use a service like Postmark, Mailchimp etc. because nearly everyone I see try sending bulk mail themselves does it abysmally and don't do things like bounce monitoring, bounce handling, recipient suppression, batching, rate-limiting, MX grouping, handling unsubscribes etc. properly and that is 100% going to catch you out and cause issues.
joeykins82@reddit
These 3 should all be on independent, isolated infrastructure and should be sending from different subdomains or entirely different domains. Example: contoso.com for the company, news.contoso.com for marketing, alerts.contoso.com or accounts.contoso.com for transactional stuff. Everything also needs to be SPF, DKIM and DMARC compliant, and marketing emails need a clearly marked unsubscribe link going to a system which processes unsubscribe requests automatically.
Punting a massive marketing campaign through your Exchange Online tenant is a sure fire way to get yourself throttled in to oblivion. Doing it from your on-prem corporate infrastructure is going to get you on an RBL and no-one will be able to reply to you in any capacity.