ULPT Request: What’s the best thing to do after beating the shit out of someone in self defense to avoid prison time?
Posted by Antique-Tension386@reddit | UnethicalLifeProTips | View on Reddit | 233 comments
Let’s say you flee the scene immediately and no one knows who you are. Cops weren’t called when the fight happened, but the other person tries to press charges the next day. How likely is it that you’ll get caught if they don’t know your name and can only vaguely identify you? Can they really find video footage and use AI to find your identity immediately? Do most people even want call the cops after a fight since there’s a chance they might be charged as well because it wasn’t one sided?
Illustrious_Hotel527@reddit
Not ULPT, but if arrested, say: I acted in self defense, I want a lawyer present for any further discussion. Then be quiet and do not talk to police until the lawyer is present.
crustyflute@reddit
Biggest life pro tip there is: shut up and lawyer up.
UnsaneSavior@reddit
lol. Fools. I’d say go a step further. As soon as you get a public defender, fire them. Every single one. Tell the judge you have zero confidence in your given PDuntil they run out of them for the whole county. They are obligated by law to provide you with counsel. So then they have to go in private sector and hire an actual lawyer. You don’t have to explain the reason you have no confidence is because their check is signed by the same ones who signs the prosecutors checks. Or because the PD job is not to defend you but to get you to take a plea. As long as they get you in the system somehow. But yes, initially you never talk to a cop without a lawyer. Cops are allowed to lie, say anything they can to get you to say something that gives them cause to charge you. Of course if you lie they raise holy hell and make your case about how untrustworthy you are. ( got a lot of corrupt cops where I live). So keep your mouth shut no matter what. Talking only gives them ammo to use against you. Even if you think you can explain clearly that no one is confused, they will still twist what you say in a way the makes you look bad
Possible-Matter-6494@reddit
I don't think I could afford an attorney though, so I wouldn't be able to fire the PD. I would have to stick with the PD because it's gotta be better than representing yourself.
UnsaneSavior@reddit
If you prove you make below a certain amount they would have to pay for the private attorney as if a PD
Possible-Matter-6494@reddit
If they are paying the private attorney, wouldn't that mean the check is still being signed by the same one who signs the prosecutor's checks? Wouldn't that also mean I couldn't have confidence in them either? I am so confused by this logic
UnsaneSavior@reddit
Well the PD is beholden to the court because those people (the judge, DA, clerks etc)work with them every day. A private attorney just because the court is covering the cost is beholden to the client because aside from that case, he/she is paid by the firm. They will hands down give you better counsel than a PD who has the workload of 3 lawyers
UnsaneSavior@reddit
It’s been done already I’m not speaking in hypotheticals. More than once lol
BluecrabbyDC@reddit
This is terrible advice. The judge will want to know why you are requesting new council and gumming up the works. You as a random defendant saying that you have zero confidence in your attorney means absolutely nothing to a judge who works with these public defenders every single day. They will chastise you for telling lawyers who went to law school and passed the bar and do this job every day how to do their jobs and then set the next hearing date without a change in council but with a very bad impression of you. Do not do this. Watch any court clip of a sovereign citizen to see how this would play out.
UnsaneSavior@reddit
It’s been tried and is true. Who cares what the judge thinks. He’s not your friend. And by law, you have the right to counsel that you feel is working on your behalf. Any PD I was given (crazy youth, outgrew it), were swamped. One of them didn’t even look at my case until arraignment. It’s not terrible advice. But it will drag out the trial a couple years. It’s not a stretch to say the PD is too busy to give my case the minimum of effort. After all, this is my life, my future so ya I’m gonna hold out for the best. You can plea out if you want. I’ll walk. You’ll walk in 2 to 5
BluecrabbyDC@reddit
No where does it say you have a right to counsel that does what you want or as you put it “feel is working on your behalf”. You have a right to competent counsel but that is determined by the court also known as the judge.
UnsaneSavior@reddit
Ok fair enough. I challenge any one with a PD to quiz them on your case. I can’t imagine a business as successful as court of law would have less customers/ clients after all these years (I was last in a courtroom in 2006). If it’s your first thru third meeting ask details of the case. If 4th up ask what their strategy is. I’m curious what people will find. Like I said before, a PD job is to plea you out. Unless it was a slam dunk obvious win. And even then they might not. If you’re guilty, I still suggest plea not guilty and reduce maximum sentences. A plea bargain is still a win for the court……..
Micro-Naut@reddit
Yeah public defenders are definitely in cahoots with the DA. I can't figure out exactly how. I feel like it's a trading game. I want to get more sexual assault convictions so I'm willing to let those three people you representing for burglary go free. And if you don't do them enough favors they aren't gonna do you favors.
It's definitely subtle and not talked about as much as it should be. But I'm sure the public defenders can't give you any details about your own case which is absolutely unacceptable
UnsaneSavior@reddit
You’re right side from one thing. They never let anyone “go” per se, unless there was an obvious breach in protocol like a (lol) typo. What they do is they have one charge that no matter what they want to stick, so they add like 8 trumped up meaningless charges and use those as bargaining chips. Making sure the one they want you will plea out for. The robbery guys don’t get free. They may get lower sentence, delayed sentence or some kind of work program. Which of course they have to pay for. And the city get paid to force you to work. That’s the system
clever__pseudonym@reddit
Found the sovcit
UnsaneSavior@reddit
Nice super power. That all you can do? Lol
scotty813@reddit
The court is only obligated to provide an attorney if you are below a financial threshold.
Bawlsinhand@reddit
And that threshold could be as low as $13000 annual income.
Independent-Range-85@reddit
There was a recent Behind the Bastards podcast about Dr. James Grigson that was talking about the death penalty in Texas and how of the ~120 people executed as a result of his testimony, 40 had public defenders that were later disbarred or criminally charged
Yaden2@reddit
something like 1 in 8 people placed on death row in this country end up being innocent
https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/policy/innocence
breakingb0b@reddit
No. This is sounds great but will piss off the judge and end badly for whomever tried this stunt. The 6th amendment isn’t a magic shield that trumps everything. Nor can you simply fire a PD without any grounds.
Wsb-sidekick@reddit
I wish I had a medal to give you. Here take this as a token of gesture, good, very kind sir. 🎖️
UnsaneSavior@reddit
Wow. Thank you
84WVBaum@reddit
^ this
It doesn't matter of the other dude was threatening world destruction, shut up, lawyer up.
The cops' mission os to arrest you. They are not your friend. They aren't there to help you. Do not help them. Do not lie. Do not make up a story. Shut up. Get an attorney now if you can afford it or ask for one if it becomes an issue.
Also shut up about it. Even this post could be construed as conspiracy to cover up a crime. Stop discussing it.
Attorney. Full stop.
Grammagree@reddit
Only draw back to this is in some places like rural Arizona they will say things like if you don’t do what they want they will strip you and put us in a cell where you can be watched; just saying
84WVBaum@reddit
Yup. I've been in single cells, cavity searched, held to the breaking point....but i digress. I have sadly been pn both sides
What you describe sounds like Suicide watch (the stripping and watching). Psych holds are gonna explode, I believe, with recent EOs too. But, especially if not charged, any ACLU attorney would wanna see a case file if they put you on SW with no reason of jusfified detainment.
The cops can say lots of things. Choose if you believe em i suppose.
They may do that to you, or they may be bluffing. Cops are, and do, legally absolutely able to lie through their teeth on pursuit of a conviction. It really comes down to the suspect having the where with all to shut up. A weekend in a holding cell would suck. 3-5 in a penitentiary would suck a whole lot more.
Attorney. Full stop. Or throw your life away and trust cops to give a shit (they don't).
Grammagree@reddit
Didn’t go to prison just a few days in jail; another eye opener, some of the old gals in there didn’t know why they were in!!! Lots of rez folks. I did all my silly stuff to cheer folks up. So many gals in there on cop and judge manufactured lies; yeegads….
Grammagree@reddit
Yeah; that experience really opened my eyes; totally cluster f So many lies and I was so naive. Think I’m mostly in the clear from those fs as I no longer live in AZ; am old lady now. Live in CA foothills; smallish town
Truth, if I had known a lot younger about how screwed up law is I would have gone to law school.
Pretty coolo you know both sides.
xtheory@reddit
This. Shut the fuck up and only talk with a lawyer present. Consult with them for anything you say or write in an affidavit.
84WVBaum@reddit
P.S. you didn't "beat the shit out of them" you "did what you absolutely had to do to protect yourself"
The law safeguards self defense. The law prosecutes punishing someone.
My point is to not make it like you gave em what they deserved....even if they deserved worse
But, of course ATTORNEY
bradbrookequincy@reddit
But saying this puts you at risk so you let your lawyer deal. Saying “yes I did it but it was self defense” may be a crime under the law if you had a duty to retreat (run). So the only thing you say is I need a lawyer. You don’t admit to even being in the area. They often bring people in with little evidence and get the person to admit it by lying to them.
84WVBaum@reddit
Even with a duty to retreat does not mean you have the ability to retreat.
As cops we were taught that if we had to discharge our weapon to not even reference anything aside from "i fired my weapon until they discontinued the action that led me to fire."
But as I, and now you, both have elaborated at length shutting up and only speaking through an attorney is always the key step.
84WVBaum@reddit
This - like i ended it with Attorney
I was less discussing LEO interaction and more friends, family, and reddit. All it takes is one statement to change a whole course.
RCMPsurveilanceHorse@reddit
Sir, the deer hit me. I was just driving the speed limit in my designated lane with my full lighting system on and the deer crossed the line and struck me
manicmechanic209@reddit
SystemFolder@reddit
Here is a video of a law professor, and a police officer, explaining to a roomful of legal students why no one should talk to the police under any circumstances.
Bald_Nightmare@reddit
That was a great watch
baldieforprez@reddit
Came here to post thos
RomulaFour@reddit
And delete this post.
Username_Chx_Out@reddit
There are even stories of police genuinely trying to expedite the matter, and anticipating a minor infraction, and a likewise minor charge, in ignorance of the law, and if you speak & self-incriminate, the prosecutor has no choice but to charge you with the full boat.
keyboardbill@reddit
The prosecutor always has a choice. It’s called prosecutorial discretion. That said, if they can press more or harsher charges, they almost certainly will. Because it’s in their personal best interest to do so.
Username_Chx_Out@reddit
Fair. FWIW, my point is, if you talk, you can incriminate yourself by seemingly harmless admissions to laws of which the cops aren’t even aware, or have intent to catch you breaking.
84WVBaum@reddit
Yup. Cops have discretion too, which is wild as fuck ro me having been through a Federally ran police academy. I was a 21yo kid, not a lawyer (in my case JAG). Who was in to decide someone's entire future?
Also, they have discretion on charging at street level, with oversight allegedly. But, cops can not cut you a deal. You're not saving them time. They aren't doing the best they can. Their performance reviews, and careers plus their ego, rests on hammering you.
The only "deal maker," is the prosecuting attorney and they know a lot more than you so let your own attorney talk to them. Sign nothing!
But overall the point is solid. Once they gave a reason to arrest you their intimidation goes through the roof and your access to advice or even a clear headed moment shrinks dramatically.
It is a lot easier to coerce a confession from someone inside a cell than on their front porch, and they know it.
Never your friends. Never helping. Never talk.
Sapphire_Starr@reddit
Most of the inmates I work with are chatty. Honestly you’d be shocked how much people ruin their own lives.
Princess_Moon_Butt@reddit
Some people are really good at denying any accusation against them, even when they're on tape doing that thing. "Wasn't me. Nah, I wasn't there. Nope. You're wrong."
Most of the time though, the person wants to earn some sympathy points or to shrug off the "bad guy" label. They might even want to convince themselves that they did the right thing. Vengeance on a high school bully, 'teaching a lesson' to the guy who got someone fired, Jesus told me in a dream that I had to, whatever; there's always a reason, and surely if you understand the reason, you'll understand that they're not a bad person, right?
Unfortunately, there's often not enough evidence like cameras and DNA analysis to get someone convicted, which means for a huge number of crimes, it comes down to "Will the guy confess, or won't he?". So jail is full of the type of person who will readily confess to the crimes they did, while the people who go straight to denial are much more likely to go free.
Illustrious_Hotel527@reddit
When I did jury duty, the guy's neighbor had an outside camera aiming directly at the household with one week of unbroken stored footage. Captured all the incriminating behavior, including trucking off the vehicle in which the body was found. Try not to commit a major crime if your neighbor has one of those..
RCMPsurveilanceHorse@reddit
The problem is that everyone has cameras now. I couldn't murder anyone i wanted to and get away with it. It would have to be a random encounter in the middle of nowhere with no other people remotely close by... I haven't put any thought into this at all...
FakeAsFakeCanBe@reddit
"Murder for Dummies" at Barnes and Noble is a great read.
NuklearFerret@reddit
Yeah, we’re in a self-imposed surveillance state, and we’re paying for the privilege.
NuklearFerret@reddit
That second part about “shutting the hell up,” is especially important. It’s easy to say “I want a lawyer,” but it’s hard to sit in a boring room quietly and wait for one. Gotta commit to it though. Regardless of what the cops may tell you, the fastest way out of that room will be with a lawyer’s help.
proweather13@reddit
In the USA, remember to plead the 5th verbally. If you don't they can use your silence against you.
lionseatcake@reddit
Also, key point here, cops are incentivized to get you to talk to them. You dont need to.
NO MATTER WHAT a cop says to you, you "will not be able to continue the conversation without legal representation being present"
That's it. Thats your line. Nothing else. Say that you will not answer any further questions without legal representation.
Still identify yourself, follow all commands, but outside of the information found on your government issued ID, you have NOTHING to say.
Micro-Naut@reddit
But what do you mean you don't answer questions?
Micro-Naut@reddit
Yes exactly. Think of what the cops do when they are under scrutiny for something. They don't even make the guy give a report for two weeks. They just keep him undercover and stay at home to get paid. That's because they will fit their story into the cracks and holes of the story that emerges,
And if you keep your mouth shut it gives your lawyer a chance to do the same thing
Dry_Leek5762@reddit
Never talk to the police This is still relevant
zefy_zef@reddit
Even if you are fully in the right, don't fucking talk to cops. You can shoot yourself in the foot by telling the truth. Shut your mouth and let the lawyer speak for you.
RCMPsurveilanceHorse@reddit
My buddy got pinched just by saying he knew how fast he was going. He didn't say the speed but the officer came up to his window and did the song and dance and before telling my buddy what he was being pulled over for, the cop just sad donyou knkw how fast you were going. My buddy said yes then the cop went on and said, ok ive fot you locked in at 22 over so heres your ticket, blah blah.and since the officer had a calibrated radar that got him 22 over the speed limit, it was an admission of guilt. Or at least thats what he told me when he got home from court.
StreetDoc68@reddit
This is always the best option with PD.
rkim777@reddit
Sam Bankman-Fried also wouldn't shut up and helped the prosecution prove him to be guilty of fraud and other charges. But I'd think it also depends on how competent your lawyer is. If you have an inexperienced idiot for a lawyer, you may as well just talk and give interviews.
AmbassadorGlobal1986@reddit
SBF was going to jail regardless
BallIsLife2016@reddit
Keep in mind cops are free to keep asking questions until you affirmatively invoke your right to remain silent. That is, silence does not invoke the right to remain silent—you have to say that you are exercising that right. Similarly, you need to affirmatively invoke the right to an attorney.
So, as soon as cops start asking questions you say “I’m exercising my right to remain silent and my right to an attorney” and then you shut the fuck up and don’t say another goddamn word until you’ve talked to a lawyer.
DihkFart@reddit
This is THE only advice..
Jimathomas@reddit
Even shorter way to get the point across:
"Lawyer."
That's it. That's the only word you say.
tilldeathdoiparty@reddit
Yup, just shut the fuck up until your lawyer arrives.
No matter what, keep your mouth shut, they aren’t going to help you
mslisath@reddit
I love those commercials
azrael962@reddit
If the police come to get you, you are not going to convince them not to or that it was self-defense or that you were in the right or that the other guy was the lock Ness monster in disguise trying to take your tree fiddy. You politely but firmly refuse to answer any questions without your attorney.
HodlingOnForLife@reddit
Honest question though, if you find yourself in that situation… how do you find a decent lawyer quickly enough? I imagine just sitting in jail trying to google defense attorneys or something
Princess_Moon_Butt@reddit
Honestly that's pretty much it, yeah.
It depends on your jurisdiction, your county jail, and what you're being charged with, so there's not a good one-size-fits-all rule.
Most jails will have a list of local lawyers and will give you as many calls as you need to set up legal representation. Some will give you access to your cell phone, they just might charge it occasionally for you rather than giving you a power cord. Some will give you no phone calls and only allow visitors, and if you can't arrange a lawyer by your arraignment then you're appointed one by the court (which you'll still have to pay for after).
Lots of times the first lawyer you're able to contact won't end up being the lawyer you use in the long run; they might say "Hey I was able to come and intervene here to set up your bail, but I'm way too swamped for more cases, so I'll recommend X, Y, and Z; I'll pass the case info along to whoever you end up choosing."
jim182182@reddit
Take this non ULPT advice somewhere else! We want UNETHICAL not logical! Lol
BasicallyGuessing@reddit
Friend of mine is a defense lawyer. He said talking yourself out of prison is hard, but talking yourself in to prison is so easy you can do it by accident. So STFU.
Mrsdepew@reddit
Lawyer up, first and always. My dad had to shoot a guy in self defense (huge dude high as f*$k attacked him in his own backyard) luckily he had his .22 in his waistband. My dad kept shooting until the dude stopped coming. My dad then called 911 and said, “I’ve just shot a man trying to kill me. Send an ambulance please.” The police spent the next 2 years trying to railroad my dad with 1st degree murder charges. He lost everything he owned while in jail fighting for his freedom. Lawyer up, bro. Always assume law enforcement is actively, cheerfully trying to f$#k you.
… also, piss discs.
IllegalGeriatricVore@reddit
My firearms instructor was a cop and he said never use the words kill, remove it from your vocabulary. It sounds really bad in front of the jury.
I can't recall the exact phrase he taught us but something along the lines of, I was forced to use my firearm to stop a threat to my life.
ChefBolyardee@reddit
My instructor told us to simply say to 911 “someone has been shot, please send help”
And than to administering aid as best you can.
Antique-Tension386@reddit (OP)
Seriously?? Even though it was on his own property?
Mrsdepew@reddit
Yep. My dad had even called the cops on this guy before and said he felt threatened (he was a neighbor), tried and failed to get a restraining order... then that happened.
They said the past made it look premeditated, and my dad was trying to tell them for weeks that the neighbor was dangerous and crazy.
There was even a documentary about the case...
https://www.amazon.com/Eyes-Nicely-Open-Watters-Economy/dp/B0B8PXRQ25
PI3states@reddit
So sorry for your dad! Is everything ended good for him? Case closed? Was he in jail all that time??
Mrsdepew@reddit
He’s ok now, about 10 years later, minus the PTSD from it all. He was in jail for a few months, then made bail and was kept on house arrest in a friend’s home for a year until it was over. They knocked it down to involuntary manslaughter, off with “time served” and then got it expunged from his record after 2 years probation. It was so messed up. He lost the place he was living and all his stuff.
Scary-Ad9646@reddit
The prosecutors are usually behind this type of thing.
NurseKaila@reddit
Victims can’t press charges. The district attorney presses charges on behalf of the state.
Miserable_Smoke@reddit
If they're considering a felony charge, you better live out in the woods somewhere. Otherwise, you were probably on camera the whole way. Unless it was premeditated.
Brilliant_Creme_2249@reddit
Kill them. No face no case
susanrez@reddit
Get an alibi lined up. Figure out a way to prove you were somewhere else at the time. Preferably with more than one person absolutely swearing you were with the miles away.
As longs as the other person wasn’t killed or seriously injured cops are not going to put a lot of effort into making a case against you. Debunking your alibi will be more trouble than the charges warrant.
Alibi!
Antique-Tension386@reddit (OP)
Bad advice, almost everywhere has cameras and cellphone tracking. Lying would get you and the alibi in more trouble
susanrez@reddit
You let your lawyer provide the alibi. You don’t talk to the cops ever.
All you’re trying to do is give your lawyer enough contradictory facts to muddy the waters enough to make it not worth the hassle and expense to pursue debunking the alibi.
The lawyer can point out, cameras are not reliable, and your phone could have been stolen, lent out, forgotten etc. Again the police having to find professionals to prove the phone was in your possession the whole time and to prove the video was of you.
No local law enforcement is going to spend the time and resources required for a conviction of assault.
You’ve been watching too many cop shows. Assault charges are seldom prosecuted unlike on tv.
hettuklaeddi@reddit
not ULPT but if you have to defend yourself, be the first person to call it it. the first one to 911 usually wins. don’t ever do the whole “so i was coming back from the store and…” - keep it simple and focused on the law - “they attacked me, and i was forced to defend myself”
leaving the scene (for other than defensive reasons), or failing to call it in, and you’re going to look like a suspect, not a victim
ayleidanthropologist@reddit
Double tap if you can get away with it. Claim self defense either way.
If you want to be “uncaught”, your cell phone and car both track your location and police will look for anyone “out of place” in the area. You can’t always leave those at home, but you can be aware that your name is on a list with just one hundred others, so stay alert for the next few months. No trophies, wash your hands. Don’t do alibis. Lawyer up, refuse to answer, say you don’t remember… Also just be politely uncooperative in general so that your baseline behavior doesn’t ever give you away
“What do I do for work? I’m sorry, am I free to go?”
VeraLumina@reddit
If you’re beaten the bejesus out someone and have some bruises, cuts, as a result, go to the hospital and create a paper trail. You can say someone attacked you etc. and create an official hospital report. Complain of headaches etc. that would imply a concussion or any other injury that would require an investigation via X-ray or MRI. They are going to write down whatever you say.
Patient complained of XYZ as a result of an attack.
Wildcat_Dunks@reddit
If you ever find yourself in this situation, the protocol to avoid legal charges is very clear. First, say very loudly that you absolutely do not want to fight. Make sure to say it loud enough that witnesses to the fight can hear you say it. If you must fight, incapacitate your opponent as quickly as possible, preferably by knockout. The final step is the most critical thing you can do to protect yourself from legal liability. As your opponent lies unconscious on the floor, melt a piss disk on his face to remove any fingerprints or DNA evidence.
thejakeferguson@reddit
What is flee?
-the7shooter@reddit
Leaving the scene of an incident. Generally speaking, using word ‘flee’ invokes a negative connotation - fleeing the scene implies guilt whether it is there or not.
Demonshaker@reddit
Depends if you post on reddit about it.
hurtsdunnit@reddit
Stab yourself in an area where you won’t die. Then you go to the cops first. You will need to consider what their prominent hand is for the wound, they take that into consideration when investigating. If it’s a slash mark that starts somewhere a right handed attacker could never reasonably hit they will know you are lying.
Cuneus-Maximus@reddit
Terrible advice. Just avoid the police, avoid the location of the incident and immediate area. If the police do come, the only things you say are that you invoke your right to remain silent and your right to a lawyer. From There on out you only say what your lawyer tells you to say.
hurtsdunnit@reddit
You need to remember what sub you are on.
Cuneus-Maximus@reddit
I am well aware where I am since I happen to moderate this sub.
hurtsdunnit@reddit
Then you should probably take a good look at yourself in the mirror and remember that this is for unethical advice. Everyone is just being entirely reasonable in the comments and I for one don’t like it.
Cuneus-Maximus@reddit
Have you actually read rule #1?
hurtsdunnit@reddit
I believe I am within the guidelines, if anything I’m closer to #2 or #14.
PhilaBlunt@reddit
Call the cops first and file assault charges on them first. Worked for me.
Antique-Tension386@reddit (OP)
What state?
PhilaBlunt@reddit
Cincinnati ohio. I assaulted him with a golf club then called the cops a pressed charges on him. I did this because he had smashed my car up the night before but I had no way to prove it. It helped tremendously that this guy had an multiple previous charges, assault and otherwise.
PhilaBlunt@reddit
Cincinnati ohio. I assaulted him with a golf club then called the cops a pressed charges on him. I did this because he had smashed my car up the night before but I had no way to prove it. It helped tremendously that this guy had an multiple previous charges, assault and otherwise.
khampang@reddit
Don’t flee, immediate Ly makes you look guilty, if it truly is self defense you stay. And always lawyer up. And delete posts where you’re considering it
Antique-Tension386@reddit (OP)
“Looking” guilty doesn’t make you guilty. I’m not sticking around if they could have friends looking to avenge them
kck93@reddit
Cameras are everywhere. Cellphone data broadcasts your location. License plate readers record everything. They will most likely find you. Do not talk without a lawyer.
After_Persimmon_4043@reddit
If you are the first to press charges, many jurisdictions won’t allow the other party to file charges until your case is resolved. That isn’t true everywhere, also, not a lawyer. I’ve just been in this situation.
Putyourjibsin@reddit
Don't talk to the cops. Get a lawyer if contacted by the police.
Micro-Naut@reddit
But you only get a lawyer for free when you are charged. Lots of people can't afford a lawyer just because the cops want to ask questions
Putyourjibsin@reddit
That's why you don't talk to the cops and if they do arrest you then get a lawyer
Robocup1@reddit
It’s much cheaper to have a lawyer than to get fucked by the legal system.
Putyourjibsin@reddit
I just wanted to add this is coming from myself who when I was younger got into a lot of fights and didn't wait around for the cops. Only once was I contacted and I asked if I was under arrest they said no then I walked back into my house.
thebucketoldpplkick@reddit
Why'd u get into so many fights?
UnsaneSavior@reddit
Lot people out there excited to learn their lesson thru violence
Putyourjibsin@reddit
Shit we were just rowdy as fuck growing up and that's just what people did where I was at when I was younger.
tomaszmajewski@reddit
Never. Talk. To. Cops.
JerryRiceOfOhio2@reddit
have you tried being rich? they get away with everything
Plane_Reference8896@reddit
Find as many people can can be an alibi. Not just people but see if you can get receipts from exactly around when the fight happened for safe keeping. The farther the better. Go to a bar or Best buy or Grocery store, gas station and say that you forgot to get your receipt yesterday and it was 845pm, 9:15, 9:00 etc. Tell the clerk you need the receipt for tax purposes and give them a price and say it was around $200 or it was just a $30 receipt from yesterday Are you able to pull up receipts? A lot of places keep inventory from the day before. I'm headed to do this once and a local bar had my receipt from the night before so I was able to prove that I didn't do a breaking and entering at an establishment across town. Your alibias don't have to be people. Sometimes I like to keep my receipts around just as time stamps in case someone wants to say that I was somewhere I wasn't. There could have been cameras but there's lots of people out there and they can't prove it was you if they don't have your name and you're not really identifiable. You can dye your hair put on a fake neck tattoo and wear it for the next couple of days. That way you can say there's no evidence even if there were cameras I've got a tattoo on my neck This guy doesn't. Just think smart street smart
Educational_Bird2469@reddit
Law enforcement isn’t that stupid. I can guarantee none of that will work if they bother to investigate.
UnsaneSavior@reddit
Many won’t bother tho. Depends on location. Around here they would plant drugs if they don’t find any just to justify the stop
knuckleheader@reddit
HI
UnsaneSavior@reddit
Hello
Educational_Bird2469@reddit
That true. Cost money and manpower to investigate. You can usually count on cops to be lazy.
UnsaneSavior@reddit
Oh yeah
vagabond139@reddit
Cameras exist. This will only work if the place doesn't have them. On top of that any modern POS system is going to put a date and time on the receipt along with some sort of transaction number so they can go back and see the exact time. And the more serious the crime the more they will dig. This might work for a small nothing burger misdemeanor but for a violent felony I wouldn't be too sure.
If they think it's a weak alibi they could charge you and then you take a plea deal or take it to trial. If you beat the living shit out of a person you're gonna want something more solid than that since it may not be the strongest evidence.
knuckleheader@reddit
mommmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
jjjjjjjjjjjjjjjkjkjjjkkkkkkkkkkmkkkkkklkkm,kmomomomomomm
knuckleheader@reddit
LLLLLLLLLLLL
Antique-Tension386@reddit (OP)
If they find you on camera then you’d be getting yourself and the fake Alibi in even more trouble for lying
Plane_Reference8896@reddit
Hey man, I don't know nothing about nothing. Am I being detained? Am I free to go? You can speak to my lawyer. Officer, these cuffs are hurting me! I'm not resisting, get your knee off my chest!
mysteriouscattravel@reddit
You could go to a Dodger game where they happen to be filming an episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm
Unplannedroute@reddit
Cell phone data, security footage welcome to the digital surveillance age.
What era are you stuck in 70s? Scooby doo?
Plane_Reference8896@reddit
Do you really think that the police are going to go that far to try and find somebody that got into a brawl? If he murdered somebody and it was a crime scene, maybe they would put some effort. But I certainly doubt that the police would put that much effort into trying to find someone that got into a fight and got away, come on with me Scrappy, we got better things to do.
fozzyfozzburn@reddit
You can't beat the shit out of someone in self defence. One of them is a lie.
slick514@reddit
Stop what you are doing and consult with an attorney immediately. This is not an “ask the internet”-situation .
Kaymish_@reddit
Every day is shut the fuck up Friday. You ask for your lawyer and shut the fuck up. But you're probably fucked anyway. Self defence is almost always supposed to be reasonable and proportional, beating the shit out of someone doesn't really pass the sniff test, so best to not do it or wear a sock so if the police try to grab you all they get is the sock.
ChanceFruit5065@reddit
lawyer up always
TheWizard_Beast@reddit
I tried this and the cops already knew about it. Immediately ripped my sock off! Always double sock!
Pull the first one off, surprise another sock!
bilgetea@reddit
Socks all the way down
ChanceFruit5065@reddit
if you're already asking about fleeing scenes and avoiding charges... it probably wasn't self defense
MissAutoShow1969@reddit
I thought battery was a misdemeanor.
SeriesBusiness9098@reddit
Beating the shit out of someone implies inflicting serious injury (a broken bone like say, a nose broken from a punch counts as sbi) which elevates it to felony aggravated assault/battery in a lot of states.
BasicallyGuessing@reddit
They won’t run you through some sci fi facial recognition national database for some dipshit fight. If there is no bank transaction, social media post, or license plate tying you there, then there isn’t much for cops to go on. If the person is alive and walking there isn’t much motivation for cops to look that hard. Keep any tats or injuries that are visible in the video hidden, but don’t dramatically change your look or behavior because it can be considered incriminating if they do find you. Just avoid the area for a while. If the other guy started it and it’s on camera you’ve got self defense, mutual combat, and you can flee the scene for your safety. If you landed too many hits after he clearly lost or gave up, you’ll need a reason to believe that he would keep coming for you after you let him go.
SeriesBusiness9098@reddit
They might. Especially since he said he beat the shit out of the other guy so he might be seriously wounded. My last dept ran facial and tattoo recognition for even smaller shit like someone shoplifting $100 worth of makeup from Sephora, porch pirates, whatever unit asked us to do it (I worked in the only unit with access and training for the facial recognition program), and it wasn’t sci fi or hard to use at all. It was made by the the same company that does license plate readers for the dept to find stolen vehicles. Casinos have been doing it forever too. Training was 2 days by an FBI agent who mostly made jokes and took breaks because it only takes a day to learn how to use it.
So if you’re caught on camera at a decent angle and the cops get it, yes they might run you through if it’s a dept with enough staff and money to do these searches. More likely they’ll take your photo around the area and see if anyone recognizes you or knows your name, or if you came from a bar etc with cameras and paid with a credit card- ya done, son.
Careless-Proposal746@reddit
1) delete this post.
2) shut the fuck up.
3) never talk to cops.
Gwsb1@reddit
Hire a lawyer. Delete this post and your Reddit account
TinTheElvenKing@reddit
This person should hypothetically delete any reddit posts they have made vaguely incriminating themselves
RichConsideration532@reddit
Delete this post, get an attorney and—as my own lawyer likes to say—shut the fuck up about it!
Antique-Tension386@reddit (OP)
Lmao no I didn’t actually do it but im just wondering
GoodSpaghetti@reddit
Sorry but if someone’s lost it and is attacking you, how are you suppose to sit down with them ask “hey are you intending to just punch me and be done or am I suppose to take you three repeated attempts at hitting me as intent to seriously hurt me and kill me? Btw are you on any drugs? Have you been unusually angry recently? Do you have a history of being impulsive or mentally unstable? Thank you for your diligent, honest and thorough and mental examination in these 30 seconds.”
Thanks!
bigborb1985@reddit
Self defence only covers you while you’re stopping the threat once the other guy’s down or not fighting back, carrying on is seen as you “beating the shit out of him” rather than defending yourself. That’s the difference in the law. Running off doesn’t guarantee anything either, there’s cameras everywhere and if someone ends up in hospital it usually gets reported whether they want it to or not. Happened to me, I was attacked first, and he was way bigger and more dangerous than me. He even threatened to kill me if he got up, so needless to say I didn’t let him up. I honestly thought I was still defending myself, but the court didn’t see it that way and I got done for GBH with intent because they said I went too far.
gothism@reddit
That's crazy once he said he was going to kill you.
Princess_Moon_Butt@reddit
It's always proportional to the threat you believed you were facing.
A jury might not take it well if someone shoves you, so you smash a pint glass over their head.
But if someone says "I'm gonna put a bullet in your skull", you can probably going a lot further, because you don't actually know whether they have a gun in their pocket; for all you know they'll shoot you if you step back for even a second.
Unethically, if I were OP, I'd start rehearsing "It looked like he was reaching for something at his waist, and I panicked."
GoodSpaghetti@reddit
Sorry but if someone’s lost it and is attacking you, how are you suppose to sit down with them ask “hey are you intending to just punch me and be done or am I suppose to take you three repeated attempts at hitting me as intent to seriously hurt me and kill me? Btw are you on any drugs? Have you been unusually angry recently? Do you have a history of being impulsive or mentally unstable? Thank you for your diligent, honest and thorough and mental examination in these 30 seconds.”
Thanks!
Bawlsinhand@reddit
But since self defense is an affirmative defense, you're now the one who has to prove that it was proportional to the threat you thought you were facing.
Princess_Moon_Butt@reddit
True, but there's always some gray area when it comes to the jury, plausible deniability, and he-said-she-said situations. But the earlier you get your story straight, the better.
(That said, if you genuinely believed the other guy was threatening to kill you, you'd probably call the cops and report him once you got him subdued. OP might have a bit of trouble with explaining that one.)
whatthefuckm8y@reddit
Say it in your statement, say it in court. Have people with you who can back up that you did say that at the time, maybe even corroborate what you said
TheDeceitX@reddit
Hate to say it bro, should have let him test his words. /s
RobbieBlaze@reddit
be the first to call the cops and establish yourself as the victim and that you were acting in self defense
HomesteadGranny1959@reddit
Don’t forget about cctv. Cameras are everywhere. Our ring camera helped solved a criminal case by filming a getaway car going by. Don’t assume you weren’t seen.
PlaymakerJavi@reddit
LWYR UP
RatFink_0123@reddit
Great show!
SubstantialPressure3@reddit
Don't say anything to the cops other than to confirm your name and that you want a lawyer.
Cops are allowed to be deceptive. They are allowed to lie. You are not. They will try to to use any means to get you talk and try to poke holes in your story, even if it's 100% true.
Ask for a lawyer and don't make small talk.
Cuneus-Maximus@reddit
You also want to explicitly state you are invoking your right to remain silent.
SubstantialPressure3@reddit
Yes. Thank you.
mynameishuman42@reddit
Deny, deny, deny, and have an alibi.
Cuneus-Maximus@reddit
Denying involves talking to the cops which you should never do. The only things you say to the police are that you are invoking your right to remain silent and your right to a lawyer.
BoozeIsTherapyRight@reddit
No, this is absolutely incorrect. If you're arrested and you try to deny and tell your alibi, you've already fucked yourself.
Instead, shut the fuck up.
mynameishuman42@reddit
I meant have an alibi in case it ever comes up. I didn't mean volunteer it. And "I'm sorry, officer. I have no idea what you're talking about." is just as good as "I don't answer questions." but it comes off as more polite.
BoozeIsTherapyRight@reddit
No, if you say you have no idea, you've lied to the cops. You don't know what evidence they have. Don't lie. Just STFU.
mynameishuman42@reddit
Good point
Ana-la-lah@reddit
Clean yourself up, destroy or get rid of the clothes and shoes you had on. Criminal law runs on reasonable doubt, so it’s all about establishing that and not giving up incriminating evidence if you can help it.
Cuneus-Maximus@reddit
And be sure there is no evidence left of the destruction of those items.
Supergazm@reddit
Unless the guy has a lasting injury, I don't think you'll get much trouble if you are arrested. If you beat them senseless and left them shaking, yeah, you're doing time. Go a little crazy in the heat of the moment, maybe like 10-30 days. Cause it's just battery unless you did something that causes an injury that diminishes life quality.
Dropitlikeitscold555@reddit
To answer the question asked: one option is to run into a nearby wall a few times to bloody your face
Ok_Work7396@reddit
Probably have a good shower and consider throwing my clothes away.
Scary-Ad9646@reddit
Uh, if they find video footage...wouldn't that prove you were, you know, acting in self-defense? Kinda seems like you'd want that footage to prove your side of the story. In fact, wouldn't you have called the police first to let them know you were attacked, so they can apprehend the assailant? *
Designer_Tap2301@reddit
Leave no witnesses.
BoozeIsTherapyRight@reddit
When you're arrested, because you'll likely be arrested: here is a one minute video course on exactly what to say when the cops question you.
Not unethical, but really important for everyone to know whether you did the crime or not.
Xendrus@reddit
If it was truly self-defense call 911 yourself right after it happens.
usagainstthem25@reddit
Hey man, quick scrolling through the other comments. It seems like everyone is talking about you getting caught. Bro, pat yourself on the back. Op, good for you. If it was a self-defense situation, and dude was coming at you and you knocked his ass out. Cheers. You got away. Don't trip. Who's gonna go to the cops and say that he just got his ass kicked? Especially if he was the aggressor. Video should show what went down. You're good friend.
puffbus420@reddit
If nobody saw it exept the other guy who dosent know your name just get a friend to say you where with them when it happened
1n4ppr0pr14t3@reddit
Get a giant knife and hide it somewhere close to the scene out of the sight of cctv. Say they pulled a knife on you and you acted in self defence then panicked and threw the knife away, telling them where to find it.
TacoBear207@reddit
The best thing to do is to contact the police and try to press charges immediately after the fight. You may not get them, but it is unfortunate how often the person who tattles first wins.
Obviously, it's too late for that. Don't talk to police without a lawyer. If they get your number and call you, don't answer or just tell them you're not interested in talking to them and hang up. If they come to you, tell them you do not speak too law enforcement without a lawyer present and then ask if you are free to go. That should be the sum of what comes out of your mouth. If they actually do detain you, especially if they take you to a police station or place you in cuffs, all that you should say is that you do not talk to police without a lawyer present. It doesn't matter if they are asking you your name. It doesn't matter if they say that they just want to talk or you're not under arrest or even if they say they're trying to help you. Even if you went to press charges, the best thing to do is to talk to police as little as possible without a lawyer present.
jueidu@reddit
In LTC/CCW training, they tell you to make sure you are the one to call the police first. It puts you on the correct footing to claim self defense/you were the victim.
If you’ve already fled, lay low. Don’t be where you normally go, don’t hangout with people, don’t go back to the scene or the general area for a LONG time.
If the police do come to talk to you, tell them NOTHING. Nothing at all, not even “I don’t know what you’re talking about.” The only words out of your mouth should be “I will not be answering questions without my lawyer present.” Practice that if you need to. Those are the only words you should be saying, other than your name and DOB.
Individual_End_2505@reddit
Beat the fuck out of them too... In self defense of course 😉
NoExperience9717@reddit
Maybe document somewhere secure as soon as possible your version of events and add it to if you remember further. Write down what you can remember, what was said, why you felt threatened, small things you remember, who was there. It'll help you get your story straight.
mysteriouscattravel@reddit
Nobody EVER talked their way out of jail. If the police find you, say your won't speak with them without your attorney present.
Also, DO NOT fucking tell ANYONE you know (or don't know) about this fight.
As far as being able to use cctv and whatever else to find you, depends on how motivated law enforcement is, what resources they have, how cooperative places that have cameras are, and probably a lot of other factors.
Seriously hope that "beat the shit out of someone" doesn't become "beat the shit out of someone and they died later of injuries."
ThatWeirdHomelessGuy@reddit
Not a ULPT but just assume you are cooked and act accordingly...
Two points,
Point 1 Get a Lawyer NOW, get ahead of this before you lose options
Point 2 Assume (even though it might not be the case) the whole thing is on camera and that the police already know who you are and where you live...
I had a neighbor that was in a similar situation to you, some guy tried to mug him outside a collage football game and my neighbor beat the crap out of him... The police traced my neighbor back to his car with cctv cameras. The TLDR; is that my neighbor woke up to a full swat team searching his house because the guy that mugged him lost his sunglasses and went to the cops saying my neighbor tried to mug him and stole his sunglasses...
$40k in lawyer fees later... My neighbor is free but the whole neighborhood talks about the family that woke up to a swat team and they have been struggling since...
Even if they didn't get you on camera, you probably drove there, with a gps beacon (cell phone) in your pocket...
dsdvbguutres@reddit
Call 911 yourself, and look like you're giving first aid to the guy you beat up when they show up
SlipDizzy@reddit
Just leaving this here: https://www.facebook.com/AttorneyProblems/videos/shut-the-fuck-up-friday-yall-/749082008806758/
McArthurWheeler@reddit
For something this serious always lawyer up refuse to answer questions. These stakes are too high here.
About the only time I recommend otherwise is traffic tickets and things of that nature as cooperating might very well get you some leniency under the right circumstances. I play the good old boy when they pull me over. But no they're not going to get to search my car either. Not that there's anything in there.
TherealDaily@reddit
There are too many variables to be considered. I wouldn’t ask you to answer them because it would implicate you further. Don’t trust Reddit, or crime shows on tv. Watch Making a Murderer. Then poop yourself and hire a local known criminal defense lawyer in your area. Most importantly, delete this post asap. Get rid of anything connected you to the alleged crime. If the police have some new hotshot dt. They might go to crazy lengths to pin it on the lowest hanging fruit. Don’t let that be you. If you’re a booze hound, quit and get into AA in three towns away. Gd luck
OptimisticPropaganda@reddit
Well for one, don't post about it online.
icd1222@reddit
As everyone has said just don’t talk.
My neighbor got punched in the face and his bag with laptop and valuables ripped off of his shoulder. He chased the guy down and tackled him. The thief pulled a knife my neighbor wrestled it away and stabbed him with it in self defense. He immediately told a bystander to call 911. He then went straight to the police station to explain what happened. My neighbor ended up going to jail for a year. Fucked up system.
Antique-Tension386@reddit (OP)
This makes me angry
Unplannedroute@reddit
That has to have had media coverage, link up
Extinction00@reddit
You could be prepared and get a lawyer now.
SalPistqchio@reddit
Establish an alibi
Keelback@reddit
STFU. The best advice I ever heard from just about all of you. I’m 69m and I always thought that if you are innocent then you should tell the cops everything. Then about 3 decades ago I read about a guy who killed somebody in self-defence. Well it read like that in the media. I read all that I could find. He didn’t STFU as he didn’t know I got a shock when he was found guilty of manslaughter and given a long gaol sentence. A lawyer commenting on the case basically said even when self-defence, STFU.
Disappointing but yes cops aren’t our friends. Same goes for DAs.
phillyvinylfiend@reddit
If you are going to beat someone up, make sure it's so severe that they will be too brain dead to identify you court.
Jim Goad, Shit Magnet
upthesnollygoster@reddit
Call the cops. First one to the phone is the victim.
Rule of thumb. As explained to me by an attorney.
HollowVoices@reddit
Knowing when to stop.
muchosalame@reddit
You don't go and sit down in a McDonald's with a weapon and a manifest.
redthump@reddit
And you certainly don't want to go around and tell everybody about jury nullification, the idea that one juror can hang a jury regardless of evidence if they don't believe that the punishment fits the crime.
TheChickenIsFkinRaw@reddit
Which case was this lmao?
redthump@reddit
CEOs hate that one trick, but, fun fact, jury nullification can even be used if the plaintiff was arrested enjoying a succulent Chinese meal.
4-HO-MET-@reddit
And get snitched on
Savet@reddit
You should stop by the police station and ask if they have any leads. Just so you know whether you should be worried. Wear a shirt that says "In not the perp you're looking for" to get an extra degree of safety.
basquiat-case@reddit
That worked (mostly) for Ed Kemper, who frequented a known cop bar.
Just_Here_So_Briefly@reddit
You're toast unless you can prove self-defense. KEY WORDS: REASONABLE FORCE
In law, self-defense is a legal justification for using force against another person, including deadly force, to protect oneself or a third party from an imminent threat of unlawful harm. To succeed with this defense, one must reasonably believe that a threat of force exists, that their action was necessary to prevent the harm, and that the action taken was reasonable given the circumstances. Key factors in assessing reasonableness include the nature of the threat, the available alternatives to the act, the parties' characteristics (like size and gender), and the history of their relationship.
ohiomudslide@reddit
Burn your shoes and clothes related to the day, cut and scrub your nails. Cut your hair and beard.
ohiomudslide@reddit
I've watched so many TV shows where the bad guy gets found because of this stuff. It became predictable like watching columbo!
chickyloo42by10@reddit
Ask for a lawyer, then shut the fuck up
91100@reddit
isnt Rapaport a total scumbag
redthump@reddit
Here's what with a little bit more class and a tea pot. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWEpW6KOZDs
DJ_Krabby_Patty@reddit
I laugh every.fucking.time I see these guys
whatthewhat_007@reddit
Do not contact the police. Do not contact or communicate with the other party. Best case scenario, neither ever contact you and it's over.
If you are contacted by the police, you say, "I am invoking my right to remain silent, I will not be answering any questions." Or something to that affect. Then you contact a lawyer ASAP and do exactly what they say.
DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES TURN YOURSELF IN. You will gain nothing and open yourself up to charges.
Suspicious-Syrup-765@reddit
Got an app that cut down on 50% of my mindless scrolling time.
GobbIaOnDaRewf@reddit
Get the cop to assault you, and then uno reverse another self defense beat down. Just rinse and repeat
gunsforevery1@reddit
Call the cops. Don’t run away. Find witnesses.
badfox93@reddit
Is your dad Rampage Jackson? Shit out of luck otherwise
RIPGoblins2929@reddit
It wasn't me.
Single-Worry2516@reddit
Ask, tell, make is seen as legitimate defence.
In a statement it would read “I asked him to please step back, I shouted and told him to back away, then I pushed him away, once he stepped toward me. I thought he had a knife so used the minimum reasonable force to reduce the imminent threat to my life”
UnsaneSavior@reddit
Nope. Don’t say that or anything. Let the lawyer do the talking
MediumDenseChimp@reddit
"Beating the shit out of someone in self defense?!"
What?!
That's not a thing!
Diggity20@reddit
If you can, speak with a attorney now(one who you would hire) explain situation. Get bond money ready if they do come, and have someone ready to come bail you out. Do Not answer Any questions from police(even if they are not there to arrest you) Lay low for the time being, change your hangouts, routine, in case the have a little info on you, and are looking to "speak" with you.
AugustusHarper@reddit
"beating the shit out of" hmm is the self-defence in the room with us?
moosemoose214@reddit
Piss disk and call a lawyer
Glum-Suggestion-6033@reddit
Tickle them, and say, “awww, I was just kidding around”. /s
DogsRuleTheWorld666@reddit
I would file the report first, and press charges first. Just in case.
But it's more likely the dip shit who you were defending yourself against isn't going to do anything.
Tough-Birthday9367@reddit
If they are capable of travelling to a police station and bejng able to remember the beating and communicate what happened, I wouldn't be too worried about it. It's when they find someone in a coma or dead that you would have to worry.
gorzaporp@reddit
Bite a chunk out of your own lip. Say you were suckered punched.
AvaxArrogant@reddit
alot of variables here, really depends on the individual and their beliefs / bitch level. Also if the location was very public and there are multiple businesses around, it's somewhat likely there will be video evidence available.
ColaCat-14@reddit
Call an attorney,prepare as much evidence as you can and keep a copy of it somewhere safe