Construction intensifies at site linked to Israel's suspected nuclear program, satellite photos show

[-]

appealouterhaven@reddit

Good ole fashioned rules for thee and not for me right here. The fact that we tolerate this while being belligerent over Iran's program is the height of hypocrisy. If anything Israel is the one constantly fighting their neighbors, some balance in this regard would be welcome.

[-]

Gaddyzila@reddit

Israel has never threatened to use them for mass murder, that is the difference.

[-]

algrm@reddit

Lool, the fake colonialist ethno state of israel has already committed mass murder WITHOUT nukes, i can only imagine what they would do with them.

[-]

Gaddyzila@reddit

well first of all israe does have nukes, secondly, tf you mean “fake colonist state???” that shit applies to half of the countries on earth (including all muslim countries)

[-]

algrm@reddit

In the start of the 1900s, Palestine population consisted of 2-5% jews and the remainder muslims and Christians, living happily without Zionism. Then the cult immigrations known as aliyah began and by the year 1948, 3 millions European zionists were imported to Palestine and established their fake ethno state. Based on the death and destruction of Palestine and the Palestinians.

The UK promised what they don’t own (Palestine) to those who don’t deserve it (European Zionists). I’m talking about Balfour’s Promise of course.

Here’s the US president Harry Truman admitting that Palestine was inhabited by millions of Palestinians and that the Zionists have lobbied for the Palestinians to be removed forcefully but they will “have to do it in small doses.”

What evil plan is this? The fake ethno state of israel is a colonization project in the 20th century CAPTURED IN VIDEO.

Europeans colonizers have no right to Palestine, just like they were shipped in, they have to be shipped out. It is that simple.

I truly wholeheartedly feel sorry for what europe did to their jewish populations. But IT’S NOT OUR PROBLEM. That doesn’t the give European zionists the right to steal Palestine, kill their children, ethnically cleanse it. and establish their ethno state on top of their ashes.

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Gaddyzila@reddit

most jews who emigrated to israel: 1: weren’t european, most were from arab countries like yemen or mizrahi. 2:even the european ones were forcibly removed from their home countries, and couldn’t return.

also side note, it was absolutely british land, they owned it, they decided what would happen, also it was put up to a UN vote, not just one guy’s decision.

ADDITIONALLY, jews never displaced palestinians until arab countries declared war on israel. you live in an alternate version of history, do better

[-]

algrm@reddit

You’re a liar, you can’t just make assertions. As I said in the early 1900, 2-5% of palestine was jewish. Then the cult of Zionism started their aliyah cult immigration and by 1948 3 million european zionists were shipped under British protection to Palestine and established their fake ethno state.

Now tell me how, in 1948, does 3 million European Zionists have the right to steal Palestinians land, kill their children and establish an ethnic colony in Palestine?

I don’t care about your phony votes. And no it was not british land. Just like india or any part of the world is not british land. Parasites the lot of you.

[-]

Gaddyzila@reddit

“cult” is doing a lot of heavy lifting there buddy, maybe actually read what the zionist congress decided on. also the jewish population didn’t just arrive one day, they owned more than 40% of purchase-able land under ottoman rule. additionally, they didn’t “steal palestinian land” it was put to a UN vote, and any arab who wanted to stay, was allowed to by israel (thats where the 20% arab population came from). israel didn’t kill any arab children for the heck of it, this is propaganda. also funny how you dislike israel for being an “ethnostate” but advocate for palestine in the exact same breath.

[-]

Sad-Broccoli@reddit

“cult” is doing a lot of heavy lifting there buddy, maybe actually read what the zionist congress decided on.

They "decided on" mass immigration of Jewish people to colonize Palestine.

"Second Zionist Congress Day 2: 29 August 1898: Colonisation The main focus of the day was the discussion of the potential for "colonisation" of the area of Palestine and different programs for the movement of large amounts of Jews from Europe to the new land."

"The main issue facing the Congress with regards to the colonisation of the land was the large population of Arab tribes living in the area, with 92% of the population of Syria-Palestine being Arabic."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Zionist_Congress#Day_2:_29_August_1898:_Colonisation

the jewish population didn’t just arrive one day, they owned more than 40% of purchase-able land under ottoman rule.

Of course they didn't just arrive one day. Jewish Palestinians already lived in Palestine and owned 7% of the land. Zionists started settling around the 1880s.

"a year before the UN adoption of the Resolution, the Arab population of Palestine comprised 68 percent of the total and owned about 85 percent of the land; the Jewish population comprised about one-third of the total and owned about 7 percent of the land."

"At the time the UN passed its decision to partition the country, the arable land was owned as follows: 93 percent by Arabs, and 7 per cent by Jews." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine#Proposed_partition

"Eventually Ben-Gurion relented and agreed to two plans. The "big" plan – rapid settlement of a million Jews and the creation of a Jewish majority and Jewish rule – and the "small" plan, the settlement of another million Jews within a few years."

"After being voted on by the Jewish Agency for Palestine Executive in 1944, it became the official policy of the Zionist leadership." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Million_Plan

they didn’t “steal palestinian land” it was put to a UN vote

"By the end of the war, the State of Israel controlled all of the area that the UN had proposed for a Jewish state, as well as almost 60% of the area proposed for an Arab state" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War#cite_ref-22

"Why should the Arabs make peace? If I was an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that?" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Ben-Gurion#cite_ref-76

any arab who wanted to stay, was allowed to by israel (thats where the 20% arab population came from).

"Although the Israeli government officially vowed that Palestinians who remained in the state would be treated as citizens with full rights, in fact it treated them as enemies under occupation, and military rule was the primary tool it used to control them. Tactics included strict control of Palestinians’ movements and organization, suppression of any attempts to resist repressive policies, and discrimination against them in all spheres of life." https://www.palquest.org/en/overallchronology?synopses=&nid=14340

"Any movement outside their own villages had to be authorized, their communities were under permanent curfew, they were forbidden to relocate without formal approval, most political and civil organizing was prohibited, and entire regions where they had lived before 1948 were now closed to them." https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2021-01-09/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/how-israel-tormented-arabs-in-its-first-decades-and-tried-to-cover-it-up/0000017f-e0c7-df7c-a5ff-e2ff2fe50000

israel didn’t kill any arab children for the heck of it, this is propaganda.

"for the heck of it" are you implying that they had a good reason to kill children?

"The Deir Yassin massacre took place on April 9, 1948, when Zionist paramilitaries attacked the village of Deir Yassin, killing at least 107 Palestinian Arab villagers, including women and children. The attack was conducted primarily by the Irgun and Lehi, who were supported by the Haganah and Palmach. The massacre was carried out despite the village having agreed to a non-aggression pact." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre

They brag about the massacres they committed in the Nakba: https://youtu.be/MQ1TAOibLss?si=plGLjxe_kEM0ML1_

also funny how you dislike israel for being an “ethnostate” but advocate for palestine in the exact same breath.

Palestinians don't want an ethnostate like Israel does. They just want equal human rights. Very extremist demands, I know.

[-]

Gaddyzila@reddit

read the congress’s actual statement instead of some random ass report about it, i think you might be surprised.

[-]

Sad-Broccoli@reddit

Can you point me to what you're referring to if what I posted isn't it?

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Gaddyzila@reddit

i don’t need to point it out to you like its fucking superman, its not a bird, its not a plane, its a goddamn deceleration. google the actual deceleration itself, you never once quoted it, referenced it, or used it for proof, just used it as a pedestal to place your definition of zionism upon.

[-]

Sad-Broccoli@reddit

Relax I'm just trying to figure out what you're referring to. Idk what you mean by "deceleration". Do you mean "declaration"? Are you talking about the Basel Program from the first Zionist Congress?

The program set out the goals of the Zionist movement as follows: Zionism seeks to establish a home in Palestine for the Jewish people, secured under public law.

To achieve this goal, the Congress envisages the following means:

The expedient promotion of the settlement of Jewish agriculturists, artisans, and tradesmen in Palestine.

The organization and bringing together of all Jews through local and general events, according to the laws of the various countries.

The strengthening of Jewish feeling and national consciousness.

Preparatory steps for obtaining the governmental approval which is necessary to the achievement of the Zionist purpose.

Also it's not "my definition" of Zionism lol. I've used quotes from the so-called fathers of Zionism lol. This is their definition, not mine.

[-]

Gaddyzila@reddit

also wft do you mean “palestine doesn’t want an ethnostate” palestine is LITERALLY a arab state (like the 20 other ones)

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Newbarbarian13@reddit

Israel just carries out mass murder without them anyway

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Gaddyzila@reddit

ah yes the “mass murder” of killing 60K over 2 years, with 10-25K of those being soldiers, totally not a regular ass war.

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Newbarbarian13@reddit

Not even going to engage with your disingenuous hasbara nonsense, why don't you go bomb another school or hospital or cafe or refugee camp, totally normal behaviour right?

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Gaddyzila@reddit

sinwar was killed under a hospital, if that isnt proof idk what is.

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Newbarbarian13@reddit

Proof of what? Again, your hasbara handwaving of innocent deaths is pointless, go spout your briefing notes on worldnews with the other zios.

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Gaddyzila@reddit

proof that hamas uses hospitals as cover.

[-]

party_core_@reddit

or

stick with me here

people who are injured go to hospitals for care

and no matter who they're treating

that doesn't make them fair game to be targeted

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Gaddyzila@reddit

it (legally speaking) actually does though.

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party_core_@reddit

no it (legally speaking) doesn't

the only time is makes it "legal" is if combatants put civilians literally in front of bombs

if enemy combatants are being treated at a hospital, it doesn't make them fair game

let me make this clear

enemy puts Bob in front of a hospital to prevent State A from bombing it = illegal

enemy combatant gets treated at a hospital, State A dgaf and bombs it for shits and giggles = illegal

hope this helped

[-]

Gaddyzila@reddit

i didn’t mean that people being cared for at the hospital itself, gazan hospitals are all fair game as they are used as munition depots and cover for tunnels. legally speaking, this makes gazan hospitals valid military targets.

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Ala117@reddit

An Arabic calendar is not a khamas list bro, give this embarrassing bs a rest.

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Gaddyzila@reddit

when did i mention arabic calendars? i was talking about the tunnel networks built directly under hospitals and weapons being stored, also in hospitals.

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Ala117@reddit

Yes you're talking about the famous "khamas list" video "evidence" your idf heroes were staging, as i said give it a rest.

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Gaddyzila@reddit

oh for fucks sake, everything is staged if it paints hamas in a negative light apparently, grow tf up

[-]

Ala117@reddit

Everything written in arabic is some sort of a khamas war plan apparently, again give it a rest.

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Gaddyzila@reddit

i never said that, learn to read, also learn how to spell “Hamas” you seem to be illiterate and blind.

[-]

Ala117@reddit

i never said that

Neither did i say "everything is staged if it paints hamas in a negative light apparently", learn to read.

also learn how to spell “Hamas”

Learn that an arabic calendar is not a khamas list.

you seem to be illiterate and blind.

Not even subtle with your opinion on my flair huh?

[-]

Gaddyzila@reddit

never mentioned calendars or your flair, never cared about either. if you want to put words in other people’s mouths go right ahead, it doesn’t change the fact that hamas uses hospitals to store weapons and hide their tunnels.

[-]

Ala117@reddit

never mentioned calendars

You mentioned the staged "evidence" where the calendar is.

or your flair

Yea you ouright insulted me for it.

you want to put words in other people’s

Look who's talking.

it doesn’t change the fact that hamas uses hospitals to store weapons and hide their tunnels.

An Arabic calendar doesn't make that a "fact", once again give it a rest.

[-]

Gaddyzila@reddit

i feel like im getting poorly ragebaited but goddamnit if im not a fish (?). you claim i outright insulted you for your flair, quote it, in full context. you claim i mentioned staged evidence with something to do with calendars, quote it, in full context, where did i mention calendars as evidence? you claim i put words in your mouth, prove it, where is the quote where i say you said something that you did not, an actual thing, not some metaphor or simile or comparison or insult, a quote where i say you said something that you factually did not talk about. i await your response calendar boy!

[-]

Ala117@reddit

you seem to be illiterate

i was talking about the tunnel networks built directly under hospitals and weapons being stored, also in hospitals.

everything is staged if it paints hamas in a negative light apparently, grow tf up

It's so embarrassing that i'm the who has to read your own comments for you huh?

calendar boy!

You mean khamas list boy.

[-]

Sad-Broccoli@reddit

"Every accusation a confession: Israel and the double lie of 'human shields'"

Israel deliberately militarizes civilian objects, turns schools into military bases

Israeli Army Appears to Be Using Gaza Hospital, School as Bases

A Look Inside Israel’s ‘Fortress of Zion’ Military Command Beneath Tel Aviv

'I Have Been Paying 12,000 Shekels a Month to Protect the Kirya Military Base in Tel Aviv'

Palestinian children tortured, used as shields by Israel: U.N.

IDF used Palestinians as human shields 1,200 occasions in last five years, say Israeli defence officials

"How Israel's Army Uses Palestinians as Human Shields in Gaza"

[-]

Newbarbarian13@reddit

So it's okay to let babies die in neonatal wards and sabotage medical equipment is it? Seriously, go tell some other ghouls who'll listen, you're lost.

[-]

Gaddyzila@reddit

hamas’ leader was killed under a hospital, there is undeniable proof that they are used as cover. if you want to dig your head in the sand and scream “wahwahwahwhawah i cant hear youuuu” then that is your choice

[-]

Sad-Broccoli@reddit

It hasn't been independently verified that there even was a tunnel where Israel claimed there was. Israel has built tunnels in Gaza in the past, notably the one under al shifa hospital.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-05-16/israeli-video-claimed-hamas-tunnels-gaza-hospital-different/105299312?utm_campaign=abc_news_web&utm_content=link&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_source=abc_news_web

"although they identified a recently excavated hole near the hospital's accident and emergency entrance, they could not independently verify whether the tunnels and associated rooms were indeed located beneath the hospital. The BBC also requested unedited video footage without cuts, but the IDF did not provide it. On 17 June 2025, the IDF announced that it had sealed the tunnel by pouring approximately 250 cubic meters of concrete into it." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_European_Hospital

"The IDF may not have hit the hospital itself, but they appeared to have struck just outside the entrance where patients and their loved ones walked. Graphic CCTV footage shows bodies flung in the air and rubble showering a large area, leaving a huge crater behind."

"Reports at the time of the strike also alleged that the IDF had subsequently used aircraft such as quadcopter drones to fire at people rushing to help those caught in the initial blasts."

"Gen Effie Defrin confirmed that the IDF had fired at individuals converging on the hospital compound following the strike on May 13. However, he claimed they were Hamas operatives, despite providing no evidence. The general also said that the hospital had been “evacuated” at the time – a claim that would appear to be contradicted by the available video evidence and testimony from those inside, who said it was functioning normally at the time." https://archive.ph/f6YxF

Israel bombs anything and everything and then says "there was Hamas" or "there was a tunnel". That's not how international law works.

"The mere presence of armed forces or members of the enemy in populated civilian areas does not constitute the use of human shields. Nor does the presence of fighters in a protected civilian location remove the protected status of that location."

"Even if human shields were used, this would still not reduce the legal obligations of the attackers. In fact, claims of the use of human shields do not justify an attack on civilians without the constraints imposed by International humanitarian and human rights law, and the attacker still remains accountable, even if the user of human shields is also accountable."

"The attacker must still respect the principles of precaution, distinction, and proportionality to avoid harming non-combatants. In other words, the declaration of human shields is not a “get out of jail free card” under international law. Therefore, as a matter of law, even where human shields are present, the attempt to shift blame and absolve the shooter of responsibility fails."

https://mondoweiss.net/2024/09/every-accusation-a-confession-israel-and-the-double-lie-of-human-shields/

[-]

Newbarbarian13@reddit

there is undeniable proof

Proof that nobody has independently verified because the IOF don't allow external observers into Gaza. Please, consume more koolaid.

[-]

Gaddyzila@reddit

hamas themselves confirmed it days ago you ignorant imbecile. talk about drinking the kool-aid my god

[-]

Newbarbarian13@reddit

Please tell me where they confirmed it was under a hospital, so you can at least justify your support for war crimes.

Again, take your bs elsewhere, nobody here is buying it.

[-]

Gaddyzila@reddit

i cannot win this argument, you are simply too entrenched in your idiocy, goodbye.

[-]

Newbarbarian13@reddit

i cannot win this argument

You're right, nobody who argues that the starvation and slaughter of tens of thousands of innocents is justified can or should win an argument, please do leave.

[-]

Gaddyzila@reddit

no i cannot win it because of the person i am talking to, an ignorant, moronic, (probably not human even), redditor. goodbye for real, if you get that head out of the sand and start thinking, you might be able to have discussions instead of whatever this is.

[-]

Sad-Broccoli@reddit

His body was "found" there, but here's no proof that he was actually killed under the hospital or that the tunnel was even under the hospital.

The BBC, which was not included in the controlled media tour, reported through its BBC Verify unit that although they identified a recently excavated hole near the hospital's accident and emergency entrance, they could not independently verify whether the tunnels and associated rooms were indeed located beneath the hospital.

The BBC also requested unedited video footage without cuts, but the IDF did not provide it. On 17 June 2025, the IDF announced that it had sealed the tunnel by pouring approximately 250 cubic meters of concrete into it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_European_Hospital

[-]

party_core_@reddit

>kills more journalists than were killed in motherfucking WWII

>"regular ass war"

I can't imagine how much it hurts having to carry water for genocide

[-]

azure_beauty@reddit

kills more journalists than were killed in motherfucking WWII

Literally just stop and think for a second. Do you actually believe this nonsense?

[-]

Sad-Broccoli@reddit

No facts or counterargument just "think about it, that's too crazy to be true"

https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/papers/2025/Journalists

https://truthout.org/articles/israels-genocide-has-killed-more-journalists-than-wwi-and-wwii-combined-report/

https://www.newsweek.com/journalists-killed-major-conflicts-gaza-vietnam-afghanistan-iraq-world-war-2-2112427

https://www.cnn.com/2025/08/25/middleeast/more-than-dozen-killed-israeli-strikes-gaza-hospital-journalists-intl

https://www.npr.org/2025/09/01/nx-s1-5521944/news-outlets-call-for-safety-of-journalists-covering-the-war-in-gaza

And before you say they're all khamas, Israel has provided no evidence to support this (they never do). If you're so worried about khamas posing as journalists and those scary khamas cameras, maybe Israel should stop blocking all international news outlets from entering Gaza.

[-]

azure_beauty@reddit

Some claims are so self evident that no source is reasonably expected.

I have no interest in finding the source of the claim, nor spending my precious time disproving it, it is false on the basis of pure numbers alone.

[-]

Sad-Broccoli@reddit

I guess you would have to have no interest in truth or facts in order to support a fascist ethnostate killing thousands of babies

[-]

georgeb1904@reddit

There is no physical possibility that a conflict that killed 60 million people was more deadly for journalists than a regional war better 2 parties. It’s ludicrous but not shocking that you’re doubling down with multiple links all citing the same source

[-]

Sad-Broccoli@reddit

Maybe if Israel would allow any international media or human rights organizations inside of Gaza, we could have more reports and information to verify or disprove this sort of thing

[-]

Ala117@reddit

Not surprising you don't.

[-]

georgeb1904@reddit

It’s like claiming no children in Gaza have died, incompressible and so moronic it’s funny

[-]

slightlyrabidpossum@reddit

I'm sure they do, it's a statistic that's been reported by a number of institutions that are supposed to be reliable.

As far as I can tell, many of these claims can be traced back to this Brown paper from April, but the figure of 67-69 dead journalists in WWII is older than that. It's actually kind of crazy how many organizations have mindlessly repeated that number — basic research would have shown them that their figure excluded at least 76 Soviet correspondents and photographers who were clearly recorded as being killed during WWII.

That research also would have shown them that the source for WWII deaths doesn't claim to be exhaustive or authoritative. As I said earlier, that number can be found elsewhere, but it typically seems to be describing verified deaths of Allied war correspondents (not counting the Soviets). It simply can't be an accurate count of how many journalists actually died in WWII, especially when you consider journalists who would have been killed as collateral damage, in indiscriminate attacks, and as the result of targeted killings/genocide. Around 40-50 million civilians died during WWII — even if only one out of every 400,000 civilians was a journalist or media worker, the number would still be nearly twice as high as Turse's figures.

Both that paper and organizations who repeat similar figures (like Amnesty) appear to be using a very narrow and extremely Western-centric definition of journalists for conflicts like WWII. This is interesting, because the Brown paper said that their figures were for journalists and media workers, which was defined as support personnel like drivers, translators and "fixers". They clearly didn't use that broad definition for WWII deaths, but I'm pretty sure that's how they measured Gaza.

This whole phenomenon is pretty frustrating, especially because there is actually reason to believe that the war in Gaza has been particularly dangerous for journalists, given the duration and scale of the conflict. There are plenty of ways to highlight that, especially when you're looking at the annual toll, but but this claim about Israel killing more journalists than WWII just doesn't hold up to close scrutiny.

I think this hyperbolic claim actually makes it a lot easier for people to dismiss the issue entirely, especially when that claim is ignoring entire groups of journalists who died during WWII. Soviet journalists, journalists from Axis countries, journalists who died while they weren't actively reporting, support personnel, journalists who were victims of the Holocaust, etc. It's hard to take the claim seriously when they don't even attempt to account for those groups, nor do they reckon with the limitations of their older data.

[-]

georgeb1904@reddit

Do you actually sincerely believe that there were fewer than 600 journalists killed in WW2? 60 million dead and only 600 were in the news business? Be honest here

[-]

Newbarbarian13@reddit

I guess it must get easier if you strip yourself of any form of empathy

[-]

party_core_@reddit

hmm, good suggestion, lemme try that...

....

...

subscribes to the atlantic

oh no, what have I done

[-]

Newbarbarian13@reddit

Now you too can hand wave away the deaths of women and children from bombing and starvation as just another justifiable statistic, congratulations!

[-]

party_core_@reddit

congratulations!

it feels so bad tho

[-]

Sad-Broccoli@reddit

In September 2024, a UN committee stated Israel had committed severe breaches against children's rights in Gaza, saying, "The outrageous death of children is almost historically unique. This is an extremely dark place in history. I don't think we have seen before, a violation that is so massive, as we are seeing in Gaza now".

‘Not a normal war’: doctors say children have been targeted by Israeli snipers in Gaza

The number of children reported killed in just over 4 months in Gaza is higher than the number of children killed in 4 years of wars around the world combined.

A joint report by Oxfam and Action on Armed Violence in October 2024 found the Israeli military had killed more women and children in Gaza than in any other conflict around the world in the past two decades.

In December, Israel's military said it estimated two out of three (66%) of those killed to be civilians.

Even the conservative figure of 61% is higher than the average civilian death rate in all world conflicts "from the Second World War to the 1990s."

[-]

MultifactorialAge@reddit

60-75% civilian murder rate is insane work.

[-]

PartySr@reddit

yes the “mass murder” of killing 60K over 2 years

Is always crazy to see how the Israeli talk about the Palestinians. No matter the situations, they all talk about the Palestinians like they are cattle.

A country full of racists.. No wonder you people go to other countries and yell "Death to Arabs" with no shame.

[-]

imunfair@reddit

ah yes the “mass murder” of killing 60K over 2 years, with 10-25K of those being soldiers, totally not a regular ass war.

It's funny that you think "only" 50k civilians murdered is some inconsequential happenstance. Most countries in the world don't just shrug and kill a football stadium worth of people and then go "oops, we should look into how that mistake happened" as a fig leaf to deflect any questions about the systemic malfeasance.

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Gaddyzila@reddit

most countries don’t even care about civilian casualties, israel giving a shit is the exception.

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imunfair@reddit

most countries don’t even care about civilian casualties, israel giving a shit is the exception.

If you flip that statement to the exact opposite of what you said, you'd be correct. Israel, dehumanizing the population they cage and bomb even in safe zones, is one of the few countries that doesn't even bother hiding civilian casualties, beyond a performative "all the men are Hamas and the women and children shouldn't have been standing so close to their totally-Hamas fathers".

[-]

ProofAssumption1092@reddit

⬆️ This account has switched from a few normal comments about computer games to a relentless defence of Israel. My spidey senses tell me we have a hasbra troll among us.

[-]

ThanksToDenial@reddit

Well... Except, you know...

Amichai Eliyahu seems to think it's an option.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/far-right-minister-nuking-gaza-is-an-option-population-should-go-to-ireland-or-deserts/

How that guy ever got to be a minister is beyond me.

[-]

Gaddyzila@reddit

first of all, this is an extremist from an already pretty extreme party, second, he was punished for this, third, this guy is not some supreme leader, he does not speak for israel.

regarding ben gvir: it’s because bibi priorities his own power over everything else, fuck both of them.

[-]

ThanksToDenial@reddit

this guy is not some supreme leader, he does not speak for israel.

Yeah, but he is a minister. A high ranking government official. Pretending like he is a nobody, isn't convincing anyone.

Seriously though, the entire Otzma Yehudit Party should get the Kach treatment. Just ban the whole thing, lock up its members, and throw away the key.

[-]

Gaddyzila@reddit

i wouldn’t complain if someone came and locked up the whole likud, but again saying that this one random racist (who got punished for saying this btw) is somehow representative of the israeli government’s opinion is wrong.

[-]

ThanksToDenial@reddit

but again saying that this one random racist (who got punished for saying this btw) is somehow representative of the israeli government’s opinion is wrong.

Let's not pretend he is the only racist or extremist there. Just the only one who brought up nukes.

I mean, we already covered Ben Gvir, who is so racist, he found a way to blame a car crash he caused due to his speeding and running red lights, on Arabs (he claimed he needs to run red lights, because he was in a "mixed city", and that's why the accident happened).

Then there is Smotrich, another prime example. His entire platform is based on just racism and extremism. Literally. Nothing else. That is his entire god damn platform.

Even the Defence Minister, Israel Kantz, has made comments about how Israel should use "targeted civil eliminations", in other words, targeted assassinations, against leading figures among the BDS movement.

And the deputy prime minister, Yariv Levin has advocated for literal racial segregation.

The entire Israeli government is currently just one extremist and racist after another. It's insane.

[-]

FCOranje@reddit

Israel also infamously supported and partnered with apartheid South Africa. Racism runs deep in Israel’s veins - clearly.

[-]

Gaddyzila@reddit

how is that at all relevant to the point that i made about iran and nukes. did you also know that the US kidnapped american and even canadian citizens to experiment “interrogation” techniques on them? (including sexual abuse). this also has nothing to do with my point but if we are already talking about shit that doesn’t matter why not?

[-]

FCOranje@reddit

You claim Israel has never threatened to use them for mass murder, but they have very clearly threatened to do it indirectly with their racist history and racist present. Not yo mention the Knesset member that called for Gaza to be nuked with little to no condemnation from others in the knesset (who actually recommended worse things).

[-]

Gaddyzila@reddit

“indirectly threatened to do it with their racist history and racist present”…… this is where education is today… israel threatens someone with nukes by existing apparently

[-]

FCOranje@reddit

Oh nice you ignored the second part of the comment where it was verbally made clear with no pushback from others in your government.

[-]

Gaddyzila@reddit

the knesset refuses to acknowledge that israel has nukes, i felt it was unnecessary to say “no cause they refuse to say something like that” now i know that i should refute absolutely any dogshit point you make

[-]

FCOranje@reddit

Irrespective of whether they have them or not, saying “we should nuke gaza” in and of itself is unacceptable; disgusting; and full on admission of wanting to commit genocide. They should have thrown him out of the Knesset instead of cheering for him.

I know how you shills work. Every excuse in the book, but never hold your leaders/countrymen accountable.

It’s the same in Gaza. Most people don’t approve of murder. But very few condemned Hamas for their violence. Prior to October the 7th, very few in Israel gave a shit about the settler violence; human rights crimes in Gaza; among a plethora of other evil actions. And the worst part? The Arabs within Israel have to stay quiet or they’ll be systematically discriminated against to an even higher degree. Potentially even being thrown into the West Bank or Gaza and having their nationality stripped.

[-]

Gaddyzila@reddit

no official israeli plan ever even considered nuking gaza. there was no national “admission of guilt”

also about holding people accountable: FUCK BIBI, HE SHOULD BE IN JAIL, FUCK BEN GVIR, DOUBLE FUCK BIBI FOR REJECTING THE HOSTAGE DEAL YESTERDAY.

(also there was no settler violence in gaza before oct 7 because israel fully left it in 2005)

[-]

FCOranje@reddit

Settler violence is in the West Bank. They killed over 300 civilians with the support of the IDF and the Israeli legal system. The culprits did not get arrested and never faced justice. Israel is responsible for them.

Gaza and the West Bank were one. Many have relatives on both sides. Hamas struck back on october the 7th after making threats for a year - all referring to settler violence; expansion; jerusalem attacks; etc

[-]

Gaddyzila@reddit

the oct 7th attack had nothing to do with “settler violence” it was 100% just about killing as many jews as possible. if they attacked because of the settlers, they would have attacked the settlers, or at least mentioned them during the attack. ive seen recordings of hamas members calling their families to brag about “killing jews”, but none called to brag about “ending the settlers”

the more you try to defend this atrocity, the worse you look, it is indefensible by nature.

[-]

SurfiNinja101@reddit

Israeli politicians have talked about nuking Gaza 🤷‍♂️

[-]

Gaddyzila@reddit

simply false, as israel refuses to acknowledge that it has nukes publicly.

[-]

ph4ge_@reddit

Two recent examples:

Heritage Minister Amihai Eliyahu (Nov 2023) In November 2023, Far‑Right Heritage Minister Amihai Eliyahu stated in a radio interview that using nuclear weapons against Gaza was “one option” among others in the Israeli offensive. He went on to dehumanize Gaza’s population, saying they should move to “Ireland or deserts,” insisted there were no civilians in Gaza, and objected to humanitarian aid by comparing Gazans to Nazis
MP Tally Gotliv (Oct 2023) Member of Parliament Tally Gotliv (Likud) wrote on X (formerly Twitter) that Israel should consider using “powerful missiles without limit,” alluding to nuclear or “doomsday” weapons to “restore the country’s dignity.” She argued Gaza should be "crushed" — not just neighborhoods, but entirely

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Gaddyzila@reddit

neither of these are serious political discussions, this is like using trump’s tweets to show US politics.

[-]

SurfiNinja101@reddit

These are elected officials of the Israeli government. If what they are saying isn’t indicative of the positions of the Israeli government then what is?

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Gaddyzila@reddit

a published law, opinion, plan, etc etc of the israeli government. elected officials do bad shit all the time, that doesn’t mean anything. by this logic watergate was a US policy

[-]

rattleandhum@reddit

trump’s tweet

... the president of the United States?

[-]

downstairsdinosaur@reddit

The words of the American president himself aren’t a show of US politics? Your ilk would do and say anything to evade accountability

[-]

MaestroRozen@reddit

And Putin talks about nuking someone pretty much every Tuesday. Doesn't mean he will actually do it. Even the most corrupt governments in the world know well and true that actually using nukes for anything other than deterrence is a genie that can never be returned to the bottle. On the other hand, religious extremists well known for funding terrorism across the globe... that goes way beyond Israel or Iran. They should never have nukes for the safety of the world as a whole.

[-]

Sad-Broccoli@reddit

So you said,

Israel has never threatened to use them for mass murder, that is the difference.

You get proven wrong and your response is "uhh what about Putin tho??"

[-]

MaestroRozen@reddit

My point is that a threat doesn't matter if everyone knows that it's empty. Russian nuclear sabre-rattling is nothing but a worn out joke. Not to mention that as seen, Israel is perfectly capable of leveling Gaza with conventional weapons. Why use a nuke to do something they can easily do without, well and truly turning themselves into a pariah state to the entire world in the process? Not happening, no matter how many times the word "nuke" gets thrown around.

[-]

SurfiNinja101@reddit

It’s funny how the vague description you have for religious extremists well known for funding terrorism around the globe applies to the US too

[-]

MaestroRozen@reddit

It does not once you take a minute to look at the motives behind. Don't get me wrong, I have no love for the US - quite the opposite. But here's the thing about every corrupt politician with imperialist ambitions : their goals are earthly. They want wealth and power on this Earth, and to live as long as possible to enjoy it. To them, destruction is means to an end. A nuclear war has no victors, only survivors, and as such they'll never start one. They want to rule over land and people, not a smoldering radioactive crater. Extremists who believe the ultimate reward is in Heaven, however, for them destruction isn't means to an end. It is the end goal. 9/11 hijackers never expected to even survive, let alone reap any worldly rewards. Now imagine if they had a nuclear bomb.

[-]

SurfiNinja101@reddit

You do realise that there is a large number of Christian American politicians who’s foreign policy decision making revolves around the rapture, right?

[-]

MaestroRozen@reddit

Iranian government might not be committing terrorism directly, but that doesn't absolve them of responsibility. They still fund and support terrorists. You blame US for supporting and giving weapons to Israel, no? Why is Iran different?

Also, when people start driving cars into crowds, detonating bombs within crowds or shooting up clubs while shouting "Praise Jesus" all across the world I'll be concerned about the threat those Christian American politicians present. Until then, I'll feel much safer knowing that Iran doesn't have access to nukes over countries like the US, Israel, or even Russia or North Korea.

[-]

SurfiNinja101@reddit

I don’t know what to tell you but there is plenty of Christian white nationalist terrorism present throughout the first world. It just doesn’t get as much attention in the media but look at the statistics and it’s there

[-]

MaestroRozen@reddit

Religious violence is not exclusive to Muslim terrorists but they are by far and wide in the lead on that matter. Pretty much every high profile religious terror organization you can think of is Islamic, where Christian terrorism is mostly on an individual level, and even on an individual level still a rarer occasion. It is not bias to know facts. Facts are clear on which religion's extremists are responsible for most carnage, and on who's supporting them - so yeah, I stand by it that those people should get nowhere near a slimmest chance of obtaining weapons of mass destruction.

[-]

BendicantMias@reddit

Did you know the Rwandan genocide was carried out without nukes? Hell much of it was carried out even without guns, just machetes. Israel commits mass murder just fine without nukes, so why waste nukes for something it doesn't need them for.

[-]

Mark_My_Morphemes@reddit

What was the scale of the Rwandan genocide compared to what's happening in Gaza?

[-]

cesaroncalves@reddit

Around the same scale as Gaza. And it was a failure due to the major powers like the United States, France, and the UK, not having the political will to intervene.

The UN peacekeeping force (UNAMIR) was severely understaffed, under-equipped, and operating under a weak mandate that prohibited them from using force to protect civilians. When violence escalated, the Security Council actually reduced the peacekeeping force from 2,500 to 270 troops rather than reinforcing it, this was mostly a USA decision. Just like the refusal to call it a genocide.

We're seeing a lot of parallels, where the self called "world police" is actively working against international law, and intentionally hampering the UN ability to perform.

[-]

slightlyrabidpossum@reddit

Around the same scale as Gaza.

Are you sure about that? The Rwandan genocide was one of the most intense episodes of mass murder in history, with some studies estimating that the morality rate was higher than the Holocaust, even when you're narrowly considering the most intense periods of Nazi slaughter

Around 800,000 Tutsis were slaughtered over the course of 100 days, out of a pre-genocide population of approximately 950,000. Crudely calculating the average daily death rate gives around 8,000 murders per day, which is obviously much higher than Gaza. It's been nearly 700 days since October 7th — a similar scale to Rwanda would result in approximately 5.6 million dead Palestinians, which is more than twice their prewar population.

You can slice the data a lot of different ways, compare Gaza's population size to all Rwandans instead of just Tutsis, look at mortality rate instead of overall deaths, etc. But I don't see how you can say that Gaza is around the same scale as Rwanda, just about any examination of the data indicates that Rwanda was much more intense and deadly.

[-]

Rovcore001@reddit

Around the same scale as Gaza

You don’t know that. No one does. Gaza is an active situation. We will only get to know the true scale of the genocide there years after it has ended, although it is already looking grim.

[-]

Gaddyzila@reddit

i wasn’t talking about the rwanden genocide, i was talking about why iran should never be allowed to have nukes.

[-]

BendicantMias@reddit

Good ole' 'hear no evil' monke tactic! 🦧

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Gaddyzila@reddit

if who gets nukes? israel already has them and has had them for decades.

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party_core_@reddit

google the "Sampson Option"

tell us how that's different from mass murder

[-]

Gaddyzila@reddit

yes, iran has, their supreme leader has said that if they had nukes israel would be gone.

by that logic, defcon 1 is also a “threat” and the US should be considered a nuclear threat at this very moment.

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party_core_@reddit

yes, iran has, their supreme leader has said that if they had nukes israel would be gone.

I'd appreciate a link

by that logic, defcon 1 is also a “threat” and the US should be considered a nuclear threat at this very moment.

the u.s. is a threat to everyone who dares challenge their hegemony, and absolutely employs violence against anyone who challenges their hegemony, and is 100% a threat, especially considering that a senile rapist conman is currently in charge of their nuclear codes

like, seriously, ask Iraq's millions of dead if the U.S. is a threat

or Vietnam

or Panama

or continues on indefinitely

[-]

Gaddyzila@reddit

i dont need to link everything and anything, you have an internet connection, use it. also every nuclear country has their own “samson” option, this applies to the US, the UK, etc etc. nukes are bad, thats why my original point that iran should never have them is still unaffected by this response.

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party_core_@reddit

i dont need to link everything and anything

you need to link ONE STATEMENT

I eagerly await it

[-]

Gaddyzila@reddit

in my opinion no country should have nukes, however iran not having nukes should be prioritized over stuff like every nuclear country’s “last resort”. also i agree that nuclear powers all saying that if attacked they would eventually resort to using them is bad and fucked up, still doesn’t change my point however.

[-]

snokegsxr@reddit

do you guys get paid for hasbara? cant explain this amount of Israelis talking bullshit and lies on reddit otherwise

[-]

Gaddyzila@reddit

i fuckin wish i did, do you know how much money i would have if i got even a dollar/dumbass, this is practically my shittiest time sink rn

[-]

party_core_@reddit

this is practically my shittiest time sink rn

sounds like a waste of your valuable time

I'd suggest stopping

[-]

Gaddyzila@reddit

valid, arguing with people who are this stubborn and ignorant is hard, every time i make a valid point its either ignored, “but what about this” or “go back to poland”. im honestly kinda sick of it

[-]

party_core_@reddit

every time i make a valid point its either ignored

every time implies you've made one so far

[-]

Gaddyzila@reddit

it does, congrats for noticing, i can acknowledge that pro-palestinians occasionally make good points, apparently that is a one way street, why argue without an open mind

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party_core_@reddit

every time i make a valid point

let me know the first time that happens

[-]

cesaroncalves@reddit

Except when it does.

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Gaddyzila@reddit

your own article says the guy was suspended from the israeli government, this was never a serious plan

[-]

Kameleon_XNI-02@reddit

Bruh thr Samson option is literally isntreal's plan to nuke everyone aerund itself if it were to lose a war

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Gaddyzila@reddit

pretty much every nuclear country has the same plan, this point applies equally to england and the US

[-]

Nukes-For-Nimbys@reddit

Once a country has nukes there isn't a lot to be done.

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oceansofpiss@reddit

And they've had nukes since the 90s

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British_Commie@reddit

Israel has had nukes far longer than that. They helped Apartheid South Africa develop their nuclear capabilities

[-]

oceansofpiss@reddit

Ah fuck. I knew about the unapproved test explosion in like 92 and assumed they'd gotten them around that time

[-]

BlackJesus1001@reddit

They had them in 70s at least, they assembled around a dozen when they were losing the yom kippur war and reportedly were preparing to go scorched earth if the US didn't bail them out.

[-]

v00d00_@reddit

Yup. Started with French collaboration until they realized how batshit Israel was, then the Mossad just started stealing secrets once they were cut off

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psmgx@reddit

Maxwell made that happen. His daughter Ghislane was also pretty good at making things happen for the Mossad...

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SowingSalt@reddit

The various Balkan Warsaw Pact nations did as well, mostly to use nukes to get out of the Pact.

[-]

PerforatedPie@reddit

Elon Musk's grandfather also had a strange obsession with South Africa. Small world.

[-]

FudgeAtron@reddit

Israel developed nukes in the early 1960s after France gave us uranium. By 1967 Israel had nuclear weapons for certain.

Israel developed nuclear weapons before the Non-proliferation treaty was developed.

Israel is under no legal obligation to hand over nuclear weapons as a result.

The reason Iran and North Korea are, is because they both signed the treaty and then withdrew.

Israel never signed the treaty and never declared it had weapons, which means legally there isn't anything that can be done.

IIRC the only other states that didn't sign were Sudan and Bhutan (I think).

[-]

meister2983@reddit

Iran never withdrew from the NPT. It got into its whole mess because it appeared to be doing suspicious things, but it wasn't declared breaching until just a few months ago.

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InternationalArt2791@reddit

Didn’t Iran have a deal with U.S then U.S withdraw? They started withdrawing and sanctioning Iran. Trump broke the deal Obama made

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FudgeAtron@reddit

A deal to develop civilian nuclear power not weapons. The US deal basically gave them license to stock pile a certain amount of weapons material which is why Israel was against it. And would've ended automatically after 15 years.

But either way that deal still broke international law, because the US doesn't have the right to license nuclear weapons production, the UN would've needed to do it.

[-]

InternationalArt2791@reddit

But Iran was adhering to the deal until the U.S broke off and started reenacting sanctions. Back in 2019 I believe

[-]

FudgeAtron@reddit

According to Iran and the cowardly nations of Europe who wish to avoid any and all conflicts by any means.

The Iranian theocracy needs nuclear weapons to survive, or it will be toppled. The idea that you can pay them off is as silly as trying to pay off North Korea.

They aren't interested in your "deals", they see them as more about buying time than actually stopping weapons production.

In the time that deal was in place they slowed their production on nuclear weapons but amped up development of Ballistic Missiles. So they kept developing the technology needed for nukes just holding off on getting the fissile material.

It's like restricting someone's ability to buy a gun while allowing them to stockpile ammunition. You're only dealing with half the problem.

Most of Europe is interested in appeasing Iran, because they aren't threatened by Iran. "Let Iran have the Middle East that's a problem for the Americans," is what is said in the corridors of power in Europe.

[-]

Thangoman@reddit

Ah jingoism, just what I needed to see todat

[-]

SeaBet5180@reddit

And you were doing so well.

[-]

UnGauchoCualquiera@reddit

Most of Europe is appeasing Israel, else they would've compelled Israel to sign the NPT, just as they did to half the world.

Else there would be no reason to be so secretive about having nuclear capabilities, if not for the possible blowback from diplomatic pressure.

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FudgeAtron@reddit

Most of Europe is appeasing Israel, else they would've compelled Israel to sign the NPT, just as they did to half the world.

So Europe hasn't got any leverage over Israel? I'm glad you can admit the only reason the NPT was pulled off was due to Western Imperialism.

Else there would be no reason to be so secretive about having nuclear capabilities, if not for the possible blowback from diplomatic pressure.

Or because it's literally written in the Torah: by way of deception you shall wage war. The ambiguity is the point. Everyone else who got them, got them in order to threaten others, ours are purely for self-defense, hence we have no need to wave them around like a dick measuring contest.

[-]

UnGauchoCualquiera@reddit

So Europe hasn't got any leverage over Israel?

Or they choose to look the other way as long as it suits their interests, just like they do with genocides.

Or because it's literally written in the Torah?

Many things are written in the Torah that Israel chooses not to follow, doubt that sidestepping nuclear inspections is one of those.

[-]

rattleandhum@reddit

70's. They tested weapons with Apartheid South Africa in the south Atlantic, the Vela Incident.

[-]

azure_beauty@reddit

*60s

[-]

FudgeAtron@reddit

It's a textile factory what are you talking about

[-]

azure_beauty@reddit

Quite a spicy one at that.

[-]

Messier_-82@reddit

Ukraine never had an option of keeping the nukes, because those weren’t theirs

[-]

Kahzootoh@reddit

The USSR was disintegrating and newly independent Russia’s military was too weak to even keep Chechnya from attaining defacto independence.

Ukraine had the time and the expertise to retrofit the Soviet nuclear weapons into useable weapons of its own without assistance from Moscow.

The USSR’s major missile design and manufacturing centers were in Ukraine (Dnipro to be specific), including the R-36 manufacturing facility; notable for being one of the largest nuclear missiles ever built.

If you don’t believe the part of the USSR that designed and built the vast majority of the USSR’s nuclear weapons could retrofit the weapons they designed and built to not need Moscow’s authorization codes, I’m not sure what to tell you to change your mind.

The Ukrainians gave up the weapons because they believed they had guarantees on their territorial integrity and they didn’t want to start off their independence as a rogue nuclear state if it wasn’t necessary.

[-]

ShootmansNC@reddit

There would have been a joint Russian and American/european invasion of Ukraine in 1994/1995 to take those nukes by force if Ukraine didn't hand them over peacefuly.

There's no scenario where Ukraine would get to keep them.

[-]

k4rlos@reddit

Building missiles and building warheads are two different things. The vast majority of USSR warheads research and production was in Sarov, aka Gorkiy-130/Arzamas-16.

Nuclear weapons research/manufacture/service are notoriously expensive endeavours, and Ukraine was and is unable to afford that. That's why Budapest Memorandum happened.

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Paradoxjjw@reddit

But they didn't need to build entirely new ones from scratch. They just needed to modify the warheads to accept new Ukrainian codes instead of the old soviet codes, the weapons and delivery systems already existed.

[-]

k4rlos@reddit

They would've still need to service and maintain. So imagine something like trivial https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fogbank but without even the slightest idea of what it is.

[-]

RdPirate@reddit

But it's not so different to just replacing the locks so they accept your codes. Especially on soviet nukes.

[-]

FriedRice2682@reddit

There's that, but maintaining its arsenal and building a delivery system was going to be very expensive especially given the fact that the west were threatening sanctions if they weren't willing to give them up.

However, the West were also promising financial aid (~7-10% of Ukraine GDP) and political support if they were willing to give them up.

Don't forget that Ukraine was the poorest country after the fall of the USSR. In 1993, their inflation hit 10 000% and that's shortly after in 1994, that they finally signed the Budapest Memorandum.

[-]

imunfair@reddit

If you don’t believe the part of the USSR that designed and built the vast majority of the USSR’s nuclear weapons could retrofit the weapons they designed and built to not need Moscow’s authorization codes, I’m not sure what to tell you to change your mind.

The Ukrainians gave up the weapons because they believed they had guarantees on their territorial integrity and they didn’t want to start off their independence as a rogue nuclear state if it wasn’t necessary.

None of the Budapest signatories were going to let a fledgling state keep nuclear weapons - and the agreement only specifies that any aggression will be discussed by the UN security council, it doesn't actually guarantee action on Ukraine's behalf. Not sure why pro-UA often act like they traded nukes for a defense treaty. They traded nukes for sovereignty. Russia absorbed their debt and repatriated the nuclear weapons, giving them a clean slate.

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AnAttemptReason@reddit

They did however have both the technical knowledge, and plutonium stockpiles, to make their own in less than a year if they wanted to replace the ones being sent back to Russia.

[-]

Messier_-82@reddit

No matter, neither of the nuclear powers want small countries to obtain nukes. Especially in case of highly corrupt ones that could sell on the black market

[-]

zapreon@reddit

For nations that see nukes as a critical way to stage off existential threats, they pretty much are a fait accompli they will not back down from once they have them.

Israel has them. Israel won't let them be taken away. That's pretty much the end of it

[-]

ijzerwater@reddit

hence I can understand other countries wanting them

[-]

zapreon@reddit

And you should also understand why other countries want to prevent another nuclear fait accompli of hostile countries

[-]

ijzerwater@reddit

if we want that, we should not play favourites, such as now for Israel

[-]

georgeb1904@reddit

Sorry geopolitics isn’t Mrs Taylor’s 3rd grade class. The world isn’t fair, deal with it and stop crying online

[-]

ijzerwater@reddit

dealing by convincing the world to change its love for the genocide state

[-]

georgeb1904@reddit

You should be encouraging everyone to stop killing each other, but something tells me you only want one side of this conflict to stop its violence.

[-]

ijzerwater@reddit

lets start with stopping to support the occupier, the attacker.

[-]

georgeb1904@reddit

I already know how this is going to go down but there was an event that kicked this whole thing off and it certainly wasn’t Israel. And I think a large majority of Gazans would prefer the status quo from 10/6. But yeah in your mind this all falls at the feet of Israel, Hamas had no choice but to launch the attack and bring upon themselves the destruction of their enclave. Israel made them do it or whatever you think that absolves them of any responsibility at all.

[-]

ijzerwater@reddit

you mean you did not know Israel was having an apartheid state and violent occupation and home grown terrorists attacking the Palestinians already years ago?

[-]

georgeb1904@reddit

Have it your way though, continue fighting against an enemy that has no qualms about killing everyone there until you give up. It’s going swimmingly so far for them.

[-]

ijzerwater@reddit

I do not think we should condone an enemy that has no qualms about killing everyone.

[-]

georgeb1904@reddit

Yeah! Keep the fight going!! Never surrender!

[-]

georgeb1904@reddit

Was Gaza in ruins on October 6 2023?

[-]

ijzerwater@reddit

it was occupied. I do think people have the right to fight against that.

[-]

CamisaMalva@reddit

Unlike Iran, Israel is not exactly announcing how much they wanna rain hellfire on their enemies with nuclear warheads.

Let's not kid ourselves that it is "only fair" if the repressive theocracy funding terrorist groups also gets them.

[-]

kapsama@reddit

Kidding yourself is exactly what you're doing by pretending that Israel isn't a theocratic terrorist regime.

[-]

CamisaMalva@reddit

lol

Israel is a secular democracy where freedom of religion is a right given to everyone even if they're not Jewish, and in 70 years or so they've never started any of the conflicts they've been involved with.

I could literally just say the same about Iran, except that one is factual for real.

[-]

kapsama@reddit

Was this your attempt to cram as many falsehoods into a post as possible?

Apartheid states cannot be democracies.

A state that only allows Jewish religious weddings doesn't have freedom of religion.

Israel has started every single conflict. It's a settler colonialist state founded against the wishes of the locals and intent to dispose of the locals to settle foreigners.

[-]

LucidiK@reddit

I think the overarching point is that the toothpaste has already left the tube in the case of Isreal.

[-]

coleto22@reddit

We can, and should, sanction them. North Korea has nukes, and we are not invading then any time soon, but we are sanctioning. Same for Russia. Why are we not sanctioning Israel? The double standard is sickening.

[-]

ijzerwater@reddit

no, they want us to believe that.

[-]

LucidiK@reddit

So Isreal doesn't have nuclear weapons already?

[-]

ijzerwater@reddit

they want us to believe they can bully all middle east

[-]

LucidiK@reddit

No, they were commenting about why it should make sense why preventing a nuclear power from obtaining nuclear weapons is impossible, thus the lack lack of hypocrisy when it is not attempted.

[-]

LucidiK@reddit

No, they were commenting about why it should make sense why preventing a nuclear power from obtaining nuclear weapons is impossible, thus the lack lack of hypocrisy when it is not attempted.

[-]

zapreon@reddit

Did you miss the meaning of "fait accompli"?

[-]

ijzerwater@reddit

if Israel thinks it can move 2 million Palestinians from Gaza, I have no issue for wanting all Israeli out of West Bank and enforcing that with boycott of all trade.

[-]

zapreon@reddit

That's not really relevant to their nuclear program

[-]

BufferUnderpants@reddit

Maybe it’d make it less appealing to bored fascists from Texas to go play colonizer in the West Bank if Israel for some economic consequences for what it does

[-]

zapreon@reddit

Hardly relevant in this discussion

[-]

kapsama@reddit

"we have tried nothing and are all out of ideas"

[-]

zapreon@reddit

What can e.g. Europe do that will overcome this existential fear in Israel? Nothing.

[-]

kapsama@reddit

North Korea style sanctions against a rogue terrorist state that's engaged in genocide.

[-]

zapreon@reddit

For what purpose? To get them to remove nuclear weapons? That won't happen.

Then you're just massively damaging relations of a highly relevant strategic partner in a volatile region for the sake of achieving nothing.

[-]

kapsama@reddit

To set a precedent that nuclear weapons won't be allowed to anyone.

Instead of being the usual Western hypocrites.

[-]

zapreon@reddit

To set a precedent that nuclear weapons won't be allowed to anyone.

So you want to set a precedent that cannot be maintained? For example, are you going to force all of Israel, North Korea, Pakistan, and India?

Without that, that precedent has shattered from the single moment it would be announced.

Oh, and none of these countries would give up nuclear weapons because of economic sanctions.

[-]

kapsama@reddit

North Korea is sanctioned and India was also sanctioned.

Looks like the European settler colony is the only one that escapes consequences for their actions.

[-]

Level_Hour6480@reddit

South Africa disarmed because with the end of apartheid, they didn't want a government that represents black people to have it.

[-]

Dic3dCarrots@reddit

Tbh, this is probably why we tolerate Israeli war crimes.

[-]

Dry-Season-522@reddit

Iran: "If we get nukes, we're gonna nuke you and all your infidel countries!"
Israel: "We need a deterrent."

[-]

KaiBahamut@reddit

Then why hasn't Iran gotten them in the 30 years Israel said they were weeks away from them?

[-]

CamisaMalva@reddit

Because Israel keeps ensuring that they will never get them?

Better to keep the world informed.

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KaiBahamut@reddit

Sounds like a rogue nation interfering with a sovereign state. Especially when it’s the world’s worst kept secret Israel has nukes but won’t allow the IAEA to inspect them or abide by most treaties

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CamisaMalva@reddit

Sounds like a rogue nation interfering with a sovereign state.

No, it sounds like a sovereign state ensuring that a rogue nation won't be able to make its threats about raining nuclear hellfire on it come true. Let's not act as if freakin' Iran wants to have such weaponry for perfectly legitimate and understandable reasons.

Especially when it’s the world’s worst kept secret Israel has nukes but won’t allow the IAEA to inspect them or abide by most treaties

Except Israel developed a nuclear arsenal way before such treaties were even written, and never joined them either. There is nothing legally compelling them to do any of that, and no one really cares anyway since the Israelis have never shown any inclination towards actually using nukes on anyone or anything.

Compare that to Iran, who can be quoted with saying that they will incinerate Israel as soon as they develop their own nukes. It's not for nothing that even other Middle Eastern countries don't have a problem with Israel setting back Iran's nuclear weapons program all the time- they know it would be their problem as well.

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PhoenixKingMalekith@reddit

Probably cause Israel got its nukes first

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BendicantMias@reddit

Lol you're basically saying Israel would nuke them, without having been nuked or even attacked first. So much for any claims of peaceableness. You pretty much contradicted his portrayal of their nukes as merely a 'deterrent'.

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vladislav-turbanov@reddit

Israel was saying that for 20 years, so either they live a different time space or plain lie.

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SpontaneousFlame@reddit

Dry-Season-522:

Iran: "If we get nukes, we're gonna nuke you and all your infidel countries!"

Do you have a source for that quote? Other than the hasbara handbook, that is?

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georgeb1904@reddit

Why in the world would anyone want to find out for sure? If there’s even a 1% chance of them being used it’s in everyone’s best interest to prevent them from getting it. Iran hasn’t said publically it will bike anyone so what reason do we have to prevent them from acquiring these weapons”

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BlackJesus1001@reddit

Israel has literally threatened to go nuclear by assembling them and preparing to use them when they were losing a conventional war.

How long do we have until their expansionism results in them losing a conventional war against Turkey or another state and going nuclear? Or starting a conflict with nuclear armed Pakistan?

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georgeb1904@reddit

Why would Israel start a conflict with Pakistan? You’re working yourself up over literal fantasy. What if Iran decides to start a land war with the Chinese? If we’re talking about fantastical things to use as counter examples

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SpontaneousFlame@reddit

The problem with blind belief in a proven liar’s words is that you constantly look the fool. Iran weren’t trying to get nukes. Israel and Netanyahu knew that. You probably know that too. You just feel the need to spout rubbish in order to justify Israel’s aggression.

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feraleuropean@reddit

No no, that never happened and even your anachronistic colonial self knows it.

the reason you believe that crap is because mileikosky, satanyahoo, often comes to extra racist imperialist congress with Acme drawings of a bomb (I saw that drawing for years and thought it was satire like anyone sane would),

And states accusations that are confessions, for the antisocial usual colonial fascist, that is extra provincial and stupendously illiterate, that he is.

And the world ain't gonna give up the remnants of its sanity to become as primitively genocidal, as illiterate, as only murikkka and isn'treal want to be.

You can cannibalize your stupid European allies sure, we deserve it, but hello China, that is a civilization that doesn't need to mass murder to steal land and brag about its antisocial greed , like murikkka is. Your empire as civil as the third Reich.

Nobody likes you.

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party_core_@reddit

israel: "we have nukes, and if you so much as blink wrong at us we're gonna nuke you and all your infidel countries!"

Iran: "google nuclear apartheid you noodle."

ftfy

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BendicantMias@reddit

Iran has literally said it isn't even seeking nuclear weapons, so your "quote" is nothing but putting words in their mouth. Meanwhile Israel has literally fought more wars than any of their neighbours (as well as Iran).

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Consistent_Course413@reddit

They should have north korea like international sanctions.

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bakochba@reddit

Israel is not part of the NPT and Iran is a signatory.

It's literally following the rules.

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ThosePeoplePlaces@reddit

Don't tell the Israeli airforce about this site or they'll preemptively destroy it

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dova_kinn@reddit

WW3 will be started by Israel, this rouge country is out of control, it's nuclear program is outside IAEA, it's has no inspections , it is is not a member of NPT , the whole program is out side any control of any international body , it is Israel which is a threat, not Iran, Israel has attacked 5 countries in last 5 months apart from conducting a genocide in Gaza and taking over West bank, this rouge 'country' will take down the world with it.

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BendicantMias@reddit

It won't start with Israel, but it might very well end with it. Pretty much all of Israels' neighbours that have normalized relations have only done so in exchange for American hegemonic favor. Which mean if American power ever falls, Israel goes down with it. It may be in one grand war, but suddenly it would find itself constantly under attack even by countries that so far haven't attacked it despite hating it (like Turkey).

And ironically its bugbear Iran could be the precipitant to its big brother falling - if they actually are on the verge of, or get, nukes, then America can't pretend a quick bombing run can turn things around anymore. So it'll to get its hands dirty, if nothing else just so Trump can save face. Which would mean a full scale invasion of Iran. Which would be the ultimate gift to both China and Russia, who'll lock the US in far bigger forever war than Afghanistan ever was.

Which would likely get America to recognize Taiwan just to spit in China's face for daring to defy it. Which would lead to a second war in the Pacific. Which would open the way for Russia to get ambitious again, probably with the Baltic trio. Which would mean a third war in Europe. There, you have WW3.

The ultimate winners? Probably India, Brazil, Indonesia, etc., who just stay out.

But the biggest loser could very well be Israel in the long run...

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milton117@reddit

You can't rebuild a nuclear programme in a few years. The beauty of trump bombing Fordrow is that he never has to deal with the consequences. A vengeful, re-enriching Iran will be atleast a decade down the line.

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BendicantMias@reddit

'Rebuilding' it assumes you really destroyed it thoroughly in the first place. Even Trumps' own intelligence agencies cast doubt on that claim, and pretty much everyone agrees they already have over 400kg of enriched material which had been removed beforehand, enough for well over half a dozen bombs. Plus one of the complexes was so deep they didn't even bother trying to bomb it. Fordow for its part also well exceeds the penetrating potential of those bombs, which is why they had to drop a bunch of them on the same spot and hope that got through. Until you have eyes in there (good luck with that lol!), you can't claim to have achieved anything apart from pissing them off more.

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milton117@reddit

Wasn't the 400kg not enriched enough to be weapons grade?

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VhenRa@reddit

Once its at like a reasonable grade of enrichment it isn't that hard to go all the rest of the way.

Like how if you reach orbit you're halfway to Jupiter in terms of fuel needed.

Like the difference in fuel required for the Moon, Mars and Jupiter is miniscule.

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milton117@reddit

Fair enough.

Incidentally I used ChatGPT to verify your answer. It offered to draw me a graph showing "the increasing curve to enrich from natural to fuel to weapons grade". I said go for it.

It draws me a linear graph going from point A to B.

I pointed it out that it's wrong, there's no curve and the graph is linear.

It draws me ANOTHER linear graph, but this time shaded in a different colour.

...I think we've hit the max LLM's can provide for a while, folks.

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VhenRa@reddit

The glorified auto complete can't give an answer.

I'm shocked, seriously.

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milton117@reddit

It did give an answer, it just couldn't draw a graph.

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SundaeTrue1832@reddit

I don't get why Israel got so little oversight, like REALLY?!

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vladislav-turbanov@reddit

100% When you treat non-Jews as subhumans, there's little sorrow to bear for the others...

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ImAjustin@reddit

This is straight propaganda btw

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Thi_rural_juror@reddit

Very in depth counter argument, i look at you in aw

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ImAjustin@reddit

I mean I can’t spend time disproving each propaganda lie I come across. I post it to bring attention to the lie. Whether I get upvoted/downvoted I really dgaf but maybe it pushes a few people to research

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SeaBet5180@reddit

What the Israelis are acting on? Yeah we know they're just blasting propaganda to the world and internally.

Have you noticed their inward propaganda is hate to rile up their base, and outward it's all about pity and you all hate us wahhh.

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ImAjustin@reddit

Idk what you’re saying but claiming Israelis treat every non Jew as “sub human” is nonsense. Feel free to google

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SeaBet5180@reddit

You're right. They also do it to jews who don't support zionism and disagree with committing genocide.

See: many holocaust survivors.

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ImAjustin@reddit

lol did you google? I take it as a no. Here’s some first hand accounts you can watch that’ll disrupt your narrative.

https://youtu.be/oQAFmJMLtJQ?si=ev-bEkg-Nlu3BonY

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SeaBet5180@reddit

Cooliolio, that's unrelated to the current topic. And more propaganda.

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Maeglom@reddit

How so? It seems to be relatively accurate in that Israel treats a class of non Jews as second class citizens.

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ImAjustin@reddit

Who do they treat as sub human? In his words? They get admitted to schools, get medical treatment, can use any public service. Who’s getting treated sub human exactly? Which Israeli residents?

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Maeglom@reddit

Israel treats the Palestinian natives as subhumans. Even the Palestinian Israeli citizens are treated as second class citizens.

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ImAjustin@reddit

Not really. If you are an Israeli citizen, you are treated equally. You can google statistics. They are in every fabric of society. Now whether there are racist Israelis, im sure there are. But they aren’t treated as sub human.

https://youtu.be/oQAFmJMLtJQ?si=-HAAF63Z_RY0j-sF

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vladislav-turbanov@reddit

Should propaganda be non-binary?

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ImAjustin@reddit

It should be. But that is totally fabricated propaganda you’re toting. Not a good look

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Thi_rural_juror@reddit

A full-fledged world war will never happen, no matter how crazy Israel can be, people need to understand Israel is the 51's state of the USA.

The whole Israel controls the US stops when the US is very seriously against the idea presented.

Just the idea , I mean the idea of the amount of economical damage a full-fledged war with Iran would do, is a deterrent enough.

Just image, imagine what the complete and utter doom lighting the whole Middle East on fire would do.

Not only that, but Israel attacking a country like Iran which is 75 times its size is going to just scratch it and is not a one and done.

Now you have opened the floodgates, Iran if it already has a nuke will strike back on an area the size of New Jersey (its over for them basically)

and not only that, you have now revealed your self as a nuclear power and every Arab nation will start racing for weapons.

The 12-day war was cut short because simply the Israelis were getting pounded like crazy and oil prices were shooting up wildly, now image a world war ? aint happening.

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gonna-see-riverman@reddit

For those who don't know. Look up The Samson Option. They're willing to wipe out the entire region if they're ever at risk of losing military. And they scaremonger about other countries. 🤯

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DanDan1993@reddit

The Samson Option (Hebrew: ברירת שמשון, romanized: b'rerat shimshon) is Israel's deterrence strategy of massive retaliation with nuclear weapons as a "last resort" against a country whose military has invaded and/or destroyed much of Israel.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson_Option

Literally just like every other MaD doctrine.

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bignutt69@reddit

mutually assured destruction is about nuke usage in defense against nuke usage to stop nukes from ever being launched. it isnt about threatening to use nukes if you are ever opposed militarily period.

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WorkingMastodon6147@reddit

I guarantee if somehow American soil is in imminent threat from a land invasion, you guys will let the nukes fly. I guarantee it. Same with Russia and China tbh.

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Longjumping-Jello459@reddit

Nah because of the nukes fly for one the rest will fly from others.

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DanDan1993@reddit

I got a bridge to sell you if the US would get land Invaded and nukes wouldn't fly.

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gonna-see-riverman@reddit

Take a moment to think what would be the headline if the other countries in the region also adopted the same doctrine as a "last resort". It sounds so re-assuring, it shouldn't be an issue right? But your hypocrisy will not allow you to think outside of your warped indoctrination, that you're always right and the whole world is wrong.

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DanDan1993@reddit

I mean if they had nukes I would assume it would be that way because every nuclear power has this doctrine to some effect.

Headlines would probably be the same as every other day that ends with a y. Mostly garbage.

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Personal-Taste-5324@reddit

Learning about the Samson option has made me so nihilistic. It's kind of freeing in a way.

Israel is homicidal, suicidal, and genocidal. We're cooked.

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CamisaMalva@reddit

Every nuclear-capable country in the world has such a doomsday policy- it is literally what they plan to do in case everything fails and destruction is imminent.

What are you so nihilistic about? lol

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erysanthe@reddit

God help us when all these soldiers return to their countries. Especially the ones from USA and Russia.

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ftp67@reddit

I agree with what you're saying and it's terrifying but also it's

ROGUE

not ROUGE

ROGUE

Unless you're calling Israel a sort of reddish hue.

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Level_Hour6480@reddit

Does Soviet Russia have more claim to being a rouge nation than French speaking nations?

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dova_kinn@reddit

lol thanks for pointing out , fixing it :P

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SirStupidity@reddit

Israel has attacked 5 countries in last 5 months

And out of those 5 countries which one did Israel attack first in the last 2 years?

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algrm@reddit

The fake colonialist zionist ethno state of israel has no right to exist.

So sorry for what europe did to your people buddy, not my problem though. And it doesn’t give you the right to steal Palestine, kill their children and build your fake ethno state on top of it.

Go take it out on Germany and Poland.

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GodZ_n_KingZ@reddit

Most Jews in Israel are from Middle East not Europe, they fled to Israel because of persecution, Israel is the only middle eastern country where Jews aren’t being threatened inside their country. I hope other minorities here like Druze, Kurds, Assyrians and Alawites like myself get their own Israel so they wouldn't threatened to be genocided by Sunni Arabs.

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bearkin1@reddit

I'm gonna copy+paste my comment from last week to another guy to you here since it's completely relevant:

The majority of Jews are Jews from nearby Arab states, or Mizrachim.

"Absolute lies pulled out of your zionist ass. 45% of Israeli Jews are Mizrahi or Sephardic, which is by fact not a majority. I googled and disproved your bullshit in 10 seconds. Also, you said "the majority of Jews", not Israelies, so hear this too. That number tanks the moment you start looking at Jews in other countries like the US where only 1% of Mizrahi Jews are Mizrahi, while 67% are Ashkenazi.. Those two countries combined are 80% of the global Jewish population, and only 25% of that population is Mizrahi. So still not even close to a majority. Even if the remaining 20% of the global Jewish population were 100% Mizrahi, which they are absolutely not, that would still theoretically only make the global Mizrahi percentage of Jews to be 40$, which is still not a majority.

The Jews have always had a presence on the land - Arabs did not. Only through intermarriage did the Arabs gain majority.

Wrong again. Many Jews were killed to converted after the fall of ancient Israel. Of the remaining Jewish population, some were married into, yes, but many also converted. The Jews of ancient Israel became the Arabs of today, whether you like it or not. Also bear in mind that the region was already heavily Christian by the time the Arabs/Muslims came about."

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The_Nut_Majician@reddit

I was going to roast you for being a traitor to Syria but then i saw you said you were alawite so it finally clicked.

I guess getting a stipend from the assad government to put in prison innocent people, while people like you lived in a nice villa in Damascus right?

How does it feel to not be in power anymore?

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algrm@reddit

When you’re on the side of evil, you have to resort to lies.

Here’s the truth. In the early 1900s Palestinians consisted of 2-5% jews, and the remainder were muslims and Christians, living happily without Zionism.

Then european Zionist fancied themselves an ethno state and began their Aliyahs aka cult immigration to Palestine and by the year 1948, 3 million european zionists were in palestine and forcefully with the help of the UK established their fake ethno state in Palestine.

Now tell me what RIGHT does 3 millions European zionists have to establish an ethno state on a land that is already inhabited by the Palestinians? NONE.

They killed their children (and continue to do so) they stole their land (and continue to do so), the whole world has been gaslighted into supporting a religious cult committing a genocide. Zionism is the biggest scam of the 20th century.

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dova_kinn@reddit

Iran and Syria , it has been Syria throughout last decade without a single attack by them , Hez and Yemen only attacked Israel after their geocide in Gaza that too after after nearly 1 year after every effort to stop it has not worked. In end Israel will need to be stopped by force, it's not stopping on it's own which for sure will trigger a war through out the region. USA and Israel will bring about the end of the world as we know it, just give this another 5 years or so.

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SirStupidity@reddit

Syria, if you want to ignore how they allowed the constant movement of weapons to anti Israel militias, then yes, Israel attacked first.

Iran was the first to launch an attack from Iran onto Israel, and again, that's when ignoring funding multiple anti Israel militias.

Hez and Yemen only attacked Israel after their geocide in Gaza that too after after nearly 1 year after every effort to stop it has not worked.

Lol Hezbollah attacked on October 8th 2023, and that's ignoring the provocations from before October 7th like the military tent they setup on Israeli ground

https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/yellow-tents-across-blue-line-hezbollahs-new-brinkmanship.

The Houthis started attacking after a month in November 2023. You don't seem to be very knowledgeable about the time lines, buddy.

In end Israel will need to be stopped by force, it's not stopping on it's own which for sure will trigger a war through out the region.

See, that's the attitude of Hezbollah, Iran, Hamas, the Houthis, it doesn't seem to have worked well for them as a general strategy. Maybe they should join Egypt and Jordan and develop peace.

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dova_kinn@reddit

not everyone wants to be a bitch slave of a genocidal state , you are over estimating Israel, Iran slapped them silly in 12 despite taking heavy losses, in a full out war biggest loser will be Israel, cause it won't exist at the end .

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DanDan1993@reddit

arm chair general moment

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Dvine24hr@reddit

Youtube comment tier delusional lol

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GodZ_n_KingZ@reddit

Syria has Isis in the government, Israel had right to defend themselves from Isis

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djokov@reddit

Why would Israel need to defend themselves from one of their allies?

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Messier_-82@reddit

I'd argue, there's a decent chance WW3 already started some time ago

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SowingSalt@reddit

Imagine saying this while Russia is trying to reassemble the Warsaw Pact. While those countries are enthusiastic members of NATO.

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PhoenixKingMalekith@reddit

Nobody will start WW2 for the middle east

Especially since Israel only threaten its direct enemies, so most countries do not see it as a threat

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BendicantMias@reddit

Oh yes they could. If Iran is actually are on the verge of, or get, nukes, then America can't pretend a quick bombing run can turn things around anymore. So it'll have to get its hands dirty, if nothing else just so Trump can save face. Which would mean a full scale invasion of Iran. Which would be the ultimate gift to both China and Russia, who'll lock the US in far bigger forever war than Afghanistan ever was.

Which would likely get America to recognize Taiwan just to spit in China's face for daring to defy it. Which would lead to a second war in the Pacific. Which would open the way for Russia to get ambitious again, probably with the Baltic trio. Which would mean a third war in Europe. There, you have WW3.

The ultimate winners? Probably India, Brazil, Indonesia, etc., who just stay out.

And most countries in the region do see Israel as a threat, they're just paid off by America to look the other way. Their populations still vehemently hate it.

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NoWheyBroo@reddit

France flair lmao.

Netanyahu literally called your leader antisemitic for condemning blatant war crimes last week. Anybody who doesn’t bend the knee is a threat to him.

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manhattanabe@reddit

They are probably trying to harden the site from terrorist attacked. Iranians and Yemeni terrorists have been firing ICBMs at Israel for the past two years. Yeah, they are horrible shots, but even they can missile civilian targets and hit the nuclear site instead. Israel is trying to prevent the ecological disaster the terrorists are going for.

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kapsama@reddit

Always with the projection. Israel is the real terrorist entity.

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VhenRa@reddit

Yeah, Yemeni aren't terrorists.

They are hostis humani generis. Pirates and slavers.

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Thi_rural_juror@reddit

Probably getting ready for round 2 with Iran and are building a deterrent.

I don't think Israel will ever use its nukes, they are simply too small to ever risked a retaliation strike (assuming the Iranians have some secret nuke)

and even attacking Iran which is simply huge will just scratch it and then the cats-out of the bag and the whole Middle East is in an arms race.

Any middle eastern country that gets the nuke will break free from getting invaded, the US would lose its grip on the Middle East.

This is why i think a nuclear weapon for israel will only ever be usable in the samson scenario. And i dont think they came up with it for no reason, because they know there's no other scenario where it would make sense.

no matter how crazy they seem, they are only as crazy as what the americans allow them to be, dont forget the real boss is the USA even if sometimes it seems israel controls them the US only tolerates it

and will go agaisnt israel if it sees that the option on the table is too risky like obama with the JCPOA.

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shugthedug3@reddit

Your regular reminder that Israel is a rogue nuclear state on a par with north Korea.

It is also highly belligerent and very likely to use these undeclared weapons offensively, given the obvious.

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GodZ_n_KingZ@reddit

Israel and Iran should be allies, not enemies. The Sunni Arab dominance in the Middle East is a major threat to boyh Jews and Shias alike

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Dry-Will-8224@reddit

Demented ass opinion

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KrisPBaykon@reddit

Why? What’s wrong with this opinion? The big terror groups are Sunni’s. Judging from the flair, I think this person has more of a right to that opinion than where ever the fuck “multinational” is.

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Dry-Will-8224@reddit

Yo hoes are the reason ISIS and alqaeda are a thing in the first place

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pidgeot-@reddit

Wrong. Those groups were formed to resist the USSRs attempt at colonizing Afghanistan. Even China armed the Mujahideen due to the Sino-Soviet split. Try again

[-]

Dry-Will-8224@reddit

Mujahideen were funded and fostered by America to the point where America considered radical Islam an ally to "Judeo-Christian" values in the fight against colonialism. The CIA would literally drop booklets with extremist rhetoric on Afghani villages so children could read them.

[-]

Exostrike@reddit

The assessment is that its new reactor for plutonium production. The question is why? I see two possibilities.

This is a modernisation program for their warheads. It seems like estimates of Israel's stockpile has hovered in the 100-200 mark since the 1990s. Its possible they are reaching end of life due to half-life decay and need replacements. Wouldn't be surprised if such a modernisation has been resisted by the USA for geopolitical factors.
The other is expansion. It's possible that despite their talk and bluster, Israel fears they can't stop Iran gaining the bomb, and therefore they wanted an overwhelming numerical superiority to feel like they are in control. Alternatively, they may wish to switch from kiloton tactical weapon to multimegaton city busters.

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ShootmansNC@reddit

Alternatively, they may wish to switch from kiloton tactical weapon to multimegaton city busters.

That would allow them to conduct their Dahiya doctrine more easily.

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HourEast5496@reddit

It's possible that despite their talk and bluster, Israel fears they can't stop Iran gaining the bomb, and therefore they wanted an overwhelming numerical superiority to feel like they are in control. Alternatively, they may wish to switch from kiloton tactical weapon to multimegaton city busters.

This sounds more plausible then anything else. I think if the same rules apply on everyone, Iran should attack Israel now amd say they dont want an extremist religious regime to have nukes/powerful weapons.

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Whatshouldiputhere0@reddit

I don’t think Iran wants to try and attack Israel right now…

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Exostrike@reddit

The irony is Israel almost certainly already has a vastly superior and capable nuclear arsenal than anything Iran can build for some time.

It points to severe insecurity within Israel that they feel not being in a position of total supremacy is unacceptable.

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SowingSalt@reddit

Who knew that chancing nations that repeatedly and loudly claim they want to erase you from the face of the earth getting nukes is a band idea.

That's why Israel bombed Syria's, Iraq's, and Iran's nuclear program.

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FCOranje@reddit

I personally believe international pressure should make it impossible for Netanyahu; Ben Gvir; Smotrich; and many others in the Knesset to stay. Especially the US.

On top of that there should be a one state solution or a two state solution, but it has to happen immediately with more influence from foreign countries. Especially the US.

As for nukes. Having a nuclear Israel and a nuclear Iran will keep them both in check. A deterrent strong enough to prevent escalation. Israel would never have invaded Iran if Iran has nuclear warheads - because quite a few of those missiles landed and it could have ended them. Iran is hesitant for all out war because Israel can deliver a nuclear strike to every major city.

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CamisaMalva@reddit

I personally believe international pressure should make it impossible for Netanyahu; Ben Gvir; Smotrich; and many others in the Knesset to stay. Especially the US.

They were already on the way to do that without any international pressure. It only didn't happen because Hamas felt like committing mass murder against Israel was a good idea right as Bibi was being trialed.

On top of that there should be a one state solution or a two state solution, but it has to happen immediately with more influence from foreign countries. Especially the US.

Israel will never agree to a one-state solution, since Palestinians surpass them in number and they would end up as minorities within their own country. Having a radicalized group of people becoming the majority in a country they despise is just bound to become a problem.

And Palestinians have rejected a two-state solution more than once in the past- to them, it's either annihilate/drive away all Jews from the region or nothing. Y'all Westerners are not coming up with any new idea to solve this situation.

As for nukes. Having a nuclear Israel and a nuclear Iran will keep them both in check

Pardon my French, but are you fucking stupid?!

Not only is Iran is a theocratic dictatorship and the Middle East's biggest sponsor of terrorism, they hesitate to go for an all-out war against Israel because it both has a vastly superior military force and has never lost a war against anyone even when they were attacked by seven different armies when the state was founded.

"Evening the odds" by letting Iran develop nuclear weaponry would do nothing but make life harder for every Middle Eastern country, not just Israel, and it frankly shows just how little you ought to know if you suggest this as a legitimate idea to implement.

A non nuclear Israel would not have survived after all of the abhorrent stuff they have done over the past century.

They were surviving just fine long before the French helped them develop their nuclear program, though, and every armed conflict they've gotten into has been a defensive one on their part.

Pick up a history book, will ya?

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SowingSalt@reddit

I would argue that a non-nuclear Israel would have been involved in more victorious wars against Arab League invades.

Deterrence works, unlike what a whole lot of internet leftists would tell you.

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FCOranje@reddit

If Israel wasn’t nuclear, Egypt and the other regional “powers” would have destroyed them through sheer numbers without foreign support. Let’s be real, Israel has been abhorrent in its behaviour for close to a century. They are the bully that gets away with it because there’s no one to stop them (because of the nukes).

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SowingSalt@reddit

Remind me who won the 6 Day War, the Independence War, the Yom Kippur War...

The Arab League was trained and supported by the UK in the Independence war.

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FCOranje@reddit

Why does it show “Botswana” when you’re obviously an Israeli Hasbara troll?

Israel won the 6 day war because they started the war with a surprise attack. They blew up the Egyptian air fields and 286 of their 420 aircrafts. They also destroyed Syria before they could retaliate. The war started largely because Egypt decided not to allow Israel to send their ships through the Suez Canal or the Tiran strait - which is their right.

Iraq; Iran; Pakistan; Turkey; etc did not get involved much.

Without nuclear deterrence, they would be in trouble today because Israel would not survive a never ending war with so many countries.

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SowingSalt@reddit

I chose my favorite country when the mods said flair up. They didn't have the spaceship and sun of the galactic empire. They also didnt have Venice.

I can get paid to post online? Wow. Can you get me a recommendation letter and contact deets for their hiring manager? I hope they actually sent me my paycheck, unlike George Soros.

Israel made peace with Jordan. Israel made peace with Egypt (to keep the Suez open)

UNCLOS says Egypt can't close the strait of Tiran to merchant traffic. Israel said it would be an act of war after the Suez crisis, and again when Egypt expelled the UN peacekeepers.

Turkey is too busy making sure the Greeks don't get their revenue against the Turks. Pakistan is too busy posturing against India. Eveone else you mentioned is too poorly lead and trained to do anything other than get bodied by Israel.

Ironically, the best opponent Israel has fought was Jordan, but they're too sensible and pragmatic to blindly continue the belligerent.

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FCOranje@reddit

Ok. You’re right. Without nuclear deterrence and without American support - Israel could fight the entire middle east and asia forever. Not going to argue with a brick wall that can’t even recognise Israel’s vile and evil behaviour for the past century.

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SowingSalt@reddit

They beat the Arab Leage in the 40s despite the US embargo against Israel, with Czechoslovakian support. Most of Asia doesn't care about Israel.

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Rovcore001@reddit

Nobody in the global North is going to pile that pressure. The military, economic and academic ties with Israel are too lucrative to sacrifice in the name of sanctions, and most countries have strong pro-Israel lobbies to ensure that these ties are maintained.

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PerforatedPie@reddit

ties with Israel are too lucrative

Preach, this cannot be said enough. The global North doesn't intervene because that is more profitable.

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Herr_Tilke@reddit

Does Iran have permission to bomb them?

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the-last-aiel@reddit

These people need to be stopped. Now.

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