Argentina couple under house arrest amid search for painting stolen by Nazis

Posted by Currency_Cat@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 33 comments

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Zuldak@reddit

Maybe this is a hot take but it's been 80 years. There should be a statute of limitations so such art isn't driven underground and heirs might feel comfortable donating it to museums.

The original criminals and victims are long since dead. Now we're trying to enforce generational justice?

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MattTheTable@reddit

That would just encourage people to loot artifacts and squirrel them away until the SOL runs outs

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IlluminatedPickle@reddit

heirs might feel comfortable donating it to museums

They literally can't. It's stolen property. They don't own it. Not to mention, a museum would be insane to accept custody of a stolen artwork. All that would do is sign them up to years of legal fees.

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Zuldak@reddit

That would be the point. After nearly a century that are the owners.

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Czart@reddit

They are in possession, they aren't the owners.

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Zuldak@reddit

After 80 years some sort of statute of limitations should apply. Or are we also enforcing art looted when napoleon sacked half of europe?

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hacktheself@reddit

This wasn’t a spoil of war. This was an unlawful seizure connected with a crime against humanity.

And even if it was a taken during a conflict, this wouldn’t be a prize of war, which is legal, but a war looting, which is illegal under, amongst other international treaties, the Brussels Declaration of 1874 and the Hague Conventions of 1899 and 1907, all of which have the explicit intent on not just not destroying property of event civilians but protecting such.

For clarity, prizes of war are military or governmental items taken as trophies. Picking up a fallen soldier’s Mauser or displaying the corpses of destroying enemy tanks are perfectly legal.

The Statute of the International Criminal Court exactly defines pillaging of a place, even if taken in combat, as a war crime.

To go back to your Napoleon example, at the time it was not a war crime. But by WWII, this was clearly illegal.

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IlluminatedPickle@reddit

No, they aren't. They're the holders of stolen property.

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hacktheself@reddit

Let’s start with the base fact that art, antiquities, and similar cultural artifacts have specific laws around them.

One of them is provenance.

The value of high art is tied to provenance, the documented, legal transfer of ownership.

Key word, legal.

If the chain of provenance is broken through an illegal act, possession of the item itself is illegal. Confiscation of art by the Nazis and looting during war are only a few examples of such illegal acts.

In criminology, there is a parallel. Think what happens if a chain of custody is broken in evidence. That evidence is no longer usable.

It’s also parallel to another crime, CSAM. An adult film actress went on Oprah and revealed that day, the day she went on the show, as her 18th birthday, meaning all the adult content she starred in previous to that date met the legal definition of child sex assault materials. People raced to destroy those works because possession was a criminal act, even if it was procured through licit channels.

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bifleur64@reddit

Yes. Justice is justice. It doesn’t stop being justice just because 80 years have passed.

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TheAmazingGrippando@reddit

I remember the original story. They were selling their house, and one of the pictures in their listing had the painting prominently displayed above the sofa in their living room. After the story broke, it appears they hid it away.

I remember in the story that a second possible stolen painting was seen in the pictures, much less conspicuous, but it was not confirmed.

I really hope they go to prison AND the painting is returned to the rightful family.

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Eche24@reddit

There is no rightful family. The “original”owner had over 1100 art pieces (including many invaluable paintings).

Said owner died in a ship in the middle of ww2. Those art piece were then sold, landing on this new owner who brought it to Argentina and died long ago.

I think its stupid to pretend that harassing the heirs for something that happened over 80 years ago is justice.

Its all speculation at this point, one might also ask how the original guy came to have over a thousand valuable art pieces and who actually did the stealing considering those art pieces were sold at auctions during the war

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IlluminatedPickle@reddit

This is a straight up lie lmao.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portrait_of_a_Lady_(Contessa_Colleoni)

The painting was part of the collection of Jacques Goudstikker that was forcibly sold in 1940 to Reichsmarschall Hermann Göring. It was believed to have been one of two paintings in the possession of Goring's aide and SS officer Friedrich Kadgien. He fled to Switzerland at the end of World War II, later moving to Brazil and Argentina. Kadgien died in 1978 and was survived by his two daughters. The Dutch newspaper Algemeen Dagblad had unsuccessfully tried to speak to Kadgien's daughters about their father for several years.

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457424@reddit

That painting. I didn't know Bill Maher was a time traveler.

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TheAmazingGrippando@reddit

Have you even read any of the story? Are you just a headline expert?

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alt-right-del@reddit

Can you imagine returning all stolen war/colonial loot to be returned to their rightful owners?

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aykcak@reddit

The almost empty museums. The British crown sitting so much lighter on Charles' head. Imagine that

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Kizik@reddit

Man, I visited the British Museum once with a group of British friends. They did not appreciate the observation that 99% of the collection is stolen from other countries.

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aykcak@reddit

The usual argument is that the British took good care of the artifacts whereas they would have been destroyed/stolen/damaged if they were left where they were.

Maybe true in some cases but definitely not in the majority of cases

And worse is in some cases the said artifact were put in danger by the direct actions of the British colonizers anyway

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Buddy_Dakota@reddit

The. They should have no problem returning the objects when requested

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PhantomMiG@reddit

The British famously burned down the Summer Palace of China. In it was the son of the man who "purchased" thr Elgin Marbles who gave the order

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Thangoman@reddit

Beautiful

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Thecatstoppedateboli@reddit

The sad part is that polish museums are not even willing to give back looted art for example

The Elgin marbles are another example

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aykcak@reddit

I am not sure what we are rooting for here. Did they actually steal the paintings? Did they know they were stolen? Who is the rightful family?

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TheAmazingGrippando@reddit

Can you read the story? Maybe that will help.

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IlluminatedPickle@reddit

Their daddy was an aide to Goring.

I'm sure you can guess how he got it

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Jazzlike_Comfort6877@reddit

I really hope you go to prison for stealing land from Native Americans AND the land is returned to the rightful people.

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crippledsecondgrader@reddit

W ragebait

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UltraMega42069666@reddit

get fuccd colonizer

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TheAmazingGrippando@reddit

I am Native American

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IlluminatedPickle@reddit

Iirc, they weren't actively selling it. The photos were from an old listing that was still being hosted.

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Mrs_Azarath@reddit

House arrest for continuing to hide the painting seems fine. If they hand it over then it would be fair to just let them go I think. It’s more about let’s get the painting to rightful owners or at least like a museum in the country of origin or something.

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DeepState_Auditor@reddit

A federal court in Argentina has ordered house arrest for the daughter of a former Nazi official and her husband after a raid failed to locate a painting stolen from a Jewish art dealer in Amsterdam.

Authorities raided a home in the coastal city of Mar del Plata last week after a Dutch newspaper identified a painting seen in a real estate photo as an Italian masterpiece registered on a database of lost wartime art.

They failed, however, to locate the piece.

The painting, a portrait of Contessa Colleoni by the Italian artist Giuseppe Ghislandi, who died in 1743, had been missing for 80 years, before it was identified in the listing for a home believed to be owned by Patricia Kadgien, the daughter of the late former Nazi official Friedrich Kadgien.

Patricia Kadgien and her husband were ordered to remain under house arrest for 72 hours starting Monday and will be questioned for obstructing the investigation to locate the painting, a judicial official in Mar del Plata said on Tuesday.

Old master painting looted by Nazis disappears from home in Argentina Read more The couple will be summoned for a hearing before Thursday, the official said, where they are expected to be charged with “concealment of theft in the context of genocide”.

Argentina authorities carried out four new raids on Monday to find the painting, the official said, at homes linked to Kadgien and the couple’s relatives, where investigators found two other paintings that appeared to date back to the 1800s.

Reuters was not immediately able to contact Patricia Kadgien.

After the fall of the Third Reich at the end of the second world war, a number of high-ranking Nazi officials fled to South America.

The portrait of Contessa Colleoni was among more than 1,000 works of art stolen by the Nazis from the Amsterdam-based art dealer Jacques Goudstikker, who died in 1940, according to the Dutch newspaper Algemeen Dagblad, which also reported on documents suggesting it was in the possession of Friedrich Kadgien, a senior official in Adolf Hitler’s government who moved to Argentina after the second world war. Kadgien died in 1979.