Heavily depressed in this field and not sure where to go next. Do I leave the field or what next?
Posted by Legitimate-mostlet@reddit | ExperiencedDevs | View on Reddit | 82 comments
So, I have 6-8 years experience as a full stack developer. Although the front end and backend frameworks have changed from job to job, so I don't have 6-8 years experience in one stack, more a couple years experience in a few.
Before anyone suggests blindly in response to my post, I am already seeing a therapist.
I am basically though at a point in my career where I am extremely unhappy with this field, but I don't know what to do next. I like coding, but I hate what this field is becoming.
What is making me unhappy is the horrible work environment that seems to be encouraged in this field. Unrealistic deadlines, workers not pushing back against these unrealistic deadlines and just working free overtime (aka, having no life outside of work), and a horrible interview cycle and PIP/layoff culture. No one else I know outside this field gets why it takes so long to study for interviews. They don't study at all and find the thought of studying more than some basic STAR interview questions laughable.
Also, it feels like it is a field where everyone is out for themselves and if you dare talk to anyone or ask a questions, it will be used against you. It all just seems extremely toxic to me.
I thought maybe it would get better as a gained more experience. But after 6-8 years, it hasn't gotten better. Granted, I have experienced one job that did not have this problem. Deadlines were realistic, everyone was communicative and helpful to one another, and managers were fair and it was a great work environment. Then I got laid off from that job. The rest of the jobs have been variations of levels of just toxic jobs.
I'm tempted to leave this field. But frankly don't know where I would even go at this point. I already switch careers into this field from a previous one. I am in my mid to late 30s. I can't go back to that field because it is pretty much getting automated out of existence.
I like coding and if I could simply find a workplaces with WLB, realistic deadlines, and workers who could socialize I would enjoy this work. I will take a pay cut for such a work environment.
But I am also feeling like maybe this workplace doesn't exist and it is time to find a new field. A field where years of experience means something. I feel years of experience in this field can mean nothing after tech stacks change and tech changes over time.
This job field is making me extremely anxious, depressed, and it is affecting my life outside of work as well.
I am just lost what to do right now. Can someone please provide me some guidance given my situation? If I should stay in this field, how can I find a job like the one I am looking for?
If there is another field you think I should explore, what field? I will probably still code on my own free time for fun because I do enjoy this work and I like making stuff, but I am open to other fields if there is a clear path to them.
I would appreciate any help.
Ok-Entertainer-1414@reddit
You're likely to find similarly bad environments in other careers. It's more about the organization than the specific field that makes a job good or bad. Try a few more SWE jobs and you'll probably find a good environment eventually
Legitimate-mostlet@reddit (OP)
Yeah, and I did find one. Then I lost that job to a layoff. Majority seem to fall into this toxic realm. Which I do not get, because I would literally take a pay cut to avoid it.
Ok-Entertainer-1414@reddit
So now you know it's possible to find one! Gotta go out there and look for another
Legitimate-mostlet@reddit (OP)
The problem is that I knew beforehand that the company was exactly that and I targeted it. Now that company (after layoffs) turned toxic, at least that is what those who stayed said.
I haven't found another company with that reputation. I have tried as well. If you have suggestions, feel free to share, but I don't think it exists from what I have seen. Hope I am wrong.
RestitutorInvictus@reddit
It definitely does exist, you’ll need to look for it though. Perhaps you can try ChatGPT Deep Research and see if it finds a company that fits your needs?
codefinbel@reddit
It's always funny to see how reviled AI is on reddit.
RoyDadgumWilliams@reddit
The thing that sticks out most to me from your post is “I like coding”. As someone who no longer likes coding but continues to do it for the money, I simply can’t imagine leaving such a lucrative profession if I actually enjoyed the primary activity my job involves.
To me this sounds like you just have a bad job or a bad string of multiple jobs in a row. I would heavily suggest putting your time into find a place with a more relaxed culture where you have space to breathe and do what you like
eatlobster@reddit
Thought about working for the government?
Agreeable_Donut5925@reddit
When you’re interviewing remember that you’re also interviewing them. Work culture might be something stupid to some but this is where you’ll spend the majority of your day, make sure you’re not working with assholes. Trust me there are some awesome places to work at.
I get your pain when it comes to interviews, i was laid off a couple months ago and unfortunately had to go through this heinous process again. I had plenty of interviews where the interviewer was obviously in a power trip. Unfortunately this field tends to attract people that have miserable lives outside of work and they do take it out on others. The only real advice I have is to network, I have about the same amount of years of experience like you but I’ve had only a handful of interviews. I’ve gotten most of my gigs through friends or friends of friends.
I’ve been fortunate enough to work mostly in one tech stack for the last couple of years, but I don’t remember everything about it. This is unpopular on Reddit but everyone I know agrees with me on this. The deeper you get into this career the less important your technical skills are (still important to a degree) and the more important it is on how to manage people. Not just the people in your team but outside of it. You need to learn how to deal with toxic coworkers (trust me most of them are losers lol).
P.S a little hint for work culture interviews, if your manager doesn’t have a life outside of work then neither will you.
Legitimate-mostlet@reddit (OP)
How do you do this though? I mean I have somewhat of a network, but not a super large one. I don't have enough experience in one company to have built up a major network of people. The ones I am close to are unfortunetly going for big tech...which I do not want, to avoid the people you are discussing.
I also agree with you on the people who seem to be attracted to this field are often people who I guess had little power early on in their life, and now that they have been handed it at work, they are abusing it. Like they finally have any power in their lives and want to stroke their ego because they got nothing else going on outside work.
Agreeable_Donut5925@reddit
The professional way would be through conferences and events specializing in whatever industry you’re in, but how I’ve been doing it is just through my hobbies. So outside of work I’m in run clubs, book clubs, and volunteering. My goal is to meet people regardless if they’re an engineer or not. Most of these people have jobs and therefore a connection to that company. I usually do try to connect through social media with a lot of the people I meet (LinkedIn being one) but my goal with this is to find drinking/adventure buddies. My current position I got was from doing beer miles with some random people from a meetup.
I swim a lot and I’m not sure if this is a trend or not, but I’ve noticed a lot of old people are at my community pool (noticed this too while I was at uni, probably because it’s less pressure in their joints). Old people are a gold mine, easy to talk to and they’re always well connected.
thepeppesilletti@reddit
I can only say, fuck ‘em all. I started a community building something different, feel free to join: https://discord.gg/ubZgpQgG5S
It may be or not what you’re looking for, worth giving a try!
Lopsided_Judge_5921@reddit
You know what you might want to look into contracting, they usually don't expect too much out of you and if it gets bad it won't last too long as the contract will eventually end
Legitimate-mostlet@reddit (OP)
How do you find good contracts and what about healthcare and PTO as a contractor? I heard those either don't exist or are horrible.
Lopsided_Judge_5921@reddit
Work with an agency, yes healthcare and PTO are going to be minimal but there are ways to deal with it such as buying your own insurance and planning gaps in your contracts for unpaid time off. If you manage things well you can have decent work life balance and still make a good buck
Legitimate-mostlet@reddit (OP)
Do you have to request these gaps ahead of time? What if you get sick or need to take a week off for an emergency or something you can't plan for?
Lopsided_Judge_5921@reddit
HMLA in the US but it's unpaid, there is insurance that will help with that and putting away a bit more in your rainy day fund can help. There is also paid sick leave. And yes you do need to let them know in advance when you need a gap between contracts
_Pho_@reddit
I hate to say this but IMO, despite stress, software is one of the best work environments. SWEs just like to complain. Look at restaurant workers. Not only do you work on your feet all day, your pay is far lower, you have the same level of stress a lot of the time, and you have to go into an office. There is almost no job in the history world that has less overall stress, demand, with average salaries at this rate. When I worked customer service you were expected to be on the phone helping customers 8 hours a day. Your breaks were scheduled. You had to adhere to stats related to call time, post-call time, quality scores that depended on the mood of the people you were talking to, and so on. Its the same in finance, where you are expected to be on-call basically 24/7.
You can absolutely get shitty bosses, shitty coworkers, and shitty teams in any job.
Regarding sort of the cultural aspect of it, at the end of the day there are a lot of dynamics that are the result of WFH, where people are reading between the lines too much from Slack/Teams. Those dynamics have gotten worse and require explicit action to counter in my experience. Good managers can do a lot of this. It sounds like this is what is impacting you, you feel like you're not getting the social aspect that you need from your work situation. There might be better jobs in that case. And the interviewing / hiring situation is overblown. Most companies genuinely want to hire skilled people and not waste thousands of hours with stupid tests.
So take (or leave) the field for what is good about it:
BomberRURP@reddit
I’ll just leave this here: ☭
(Organize, unionize, fight for a workplace you want not one thrust upon you meant to bleed you dry and hating the craft)
db_peligro@reddit
I relate to this a lot.
I was in a hole like this at a similar career point. The only way I could get through was to create and stick to a plan for early financial independence. This really only works if you don't have kids and your spouse is on board.
I wish I could have found a better solution, we made a shit ton of sacrifices to get where we are.
But now we are in our early fifties and have fuck you money (which isn't much if you are frugal) and that feels really really good.
wkgko@reddit
I'm early retired (not rich, just no family or dependents and live a somewhat basic life) and I feel like it didn't solve the problem entirely.
It solved the problem of hating corporate work culture by no longer having to work.
It left me with the problem of finding validation and feeling good at something. Turns out without having external requirements telling me what's worth doing (and me not thinking about it too much), I find it impossible to find anything worth doing.
I always thought that when I'm retired, I'll have a lot of time to figure out what's meaningful for me. I wasn't prepared to find nothing and to lose motivation for all things I try.
This can easily be dismissed as a depression / trauma thing in my case. I realized that I've always used being "kinda good" at something as the duct tape to keep myself functional and feeling "ok".
I'm only adding this comment in case other people try to follow this solution (FI) - you may find that it's not the complete solution to whatever you're dealing with.
(I don't know what the solution is since I can't seem to find one and instead keep slipping deeper into what feels like disintegration of self and being human)
db_peligro@reddit
a key thing for me was tons of hobbies that i am super passionate about.; without those I would not enjoy not working.
wkgko@reddit
That makes a lot of sense to me.
My situation is difficult because in order to function professionally at all, I had to sacrifice developing hobbies and social life. My understanding now is that I was basically always too low functioning or damaged to succeed as a normal person, and trying anyway caused me to live with burn out, severe social anxiety from impostor syndrome, and chronic depression.
It's kind of odd I was able to achieve FI along the way, and it's almost hard to see it as a success because everything else went wrong.
The only hobbies I can sustain at this point are literal "one step in front of the other" things like cycling or hiking and consumption based ones like watching TV shows and sometimes reading.
db_peligro@reddit
hang in there brother!
SmartassRemarks@reddit
I was “smart” and worked on financial independence as soon as I got my first job. 12 years later, I have “fuck you” money but I still feel like OP. I feel stuck where I’m at, and it’s a sinking ship. Of course I’d be fine without a job for a while. But my last interview grind burned me out and I’m dreading going through it again. But I need to be employed to get a loan on a mortgage, and I’m getting married next year, and I feel pressure to buy a house in the interim, from my partner. I wish I could just take some time off for a sabbatical and reevaluate my priorities, but I know that’s a bad idea in this market and would delay my life goals. Sign.
Dr-suck@reddit
You’re certainly not alone in this. My personal feeling is that we as a dev community need to figure out how to unionize under the atomized, VC-driven peculiarities of our industry. There have been some small successes at some of the big companies, but it’s far from common.
I’ve been looking into jobs with the city government where I live just so that I can get on a city workers’ union contract. Plus at my (our) age, municipal work is way more fulfilling than some startup.
sc4kilik@reddit
Other fields may not be any better.
Maybe land a job at a nonprofit or college/university. They have their own problems but I'm sure it's less stress. And less money.
db_peligro@reddit
oh my god no. working conditions have absolutely cratered in our industry but higher ed and non profit sector in US are undergoing an apocalypse. colleges are literally closing and tenured profs are getting laid off. we have it easy compared to them.
Adept_Carpet@reddit
Yeah, it's not what it was 6 years ago but as someone who has experienced both the tech and university lifestyles, the darkest days in a university are better than the best days elsewhere.
There is more pressure, fewer perks, etc but my boss is a person who treats other people with respect and a tight budget doesn't change that. Universities can't grant stock options, so the people who view life as a competition to make the most possible money are nowhere to be found at any level in the org chart and it creates a fundamentally different culture.
There is a reason that universities have survived since the middle ages. Rough time to try and get hired but if you are willing to trade salary for a pleasant work environment (and don't mind dealing with horrific infrastructure, inane IT policies, and no structured development process) then definitely keep your eyes open for university jobs.
db_peligro@reddit
i don't actually work in the sector but I read things like chronicle of higher ed, etc and boy the news is so negative. glad you are doing well.
PureRepresentative9@reddit
Ya, when I hear the horror stories from the medical industry lol...
Monowakari@reddit
Not everyone lives in the states
db_peligro@reddit
really? I didn't know that.
Monowakari@reddit
Your US centric answer suggests otherwise 😉
pysouth@reddit
I worked in higher ed IT before I started working in development. I honestly loved it and would really like to work in that environment again, but yeah, that environment is in a really bad place at the moment for many reasons.
Organic_Battle_597@reddit
A lot of what you are complaining about is fairly specific to your company. I'd even say it sounds like a SV tech company, or a company that aspires to be like one.
I know it's easier said than done, but I think if you want to stay in the field because you otherwise like it, then start putting in the legwork to find a better shop. Unfortunately it's not always obvious from interviews, so you may need to try a couple times. But I assure you, there are boring companies out there who manage to treat their developers just fine, and still pay fairly well.
So many horror stories on here, I'm thankful that I work for a boring company. Our department is about to give developers Claude Code if they want to use it, but there's no push to force it on anyone and nobody is drawing up metrics based on LLM usage. The leader of our department is a former software dev from 30+ years ago and he just doesn't see LLMs as anything other than a tool that may help his teams, not replace them or allow headcount cuts. It's refreshing.
Legitimate-mostlet@reddit (OP)
How did you find your company? Cold applying through LinkedIn? I would love to work at such a company. I did find a good job in my last job, but got laid off. I worry it will be hard to be picky given how horrible the market is and the expectations companies seem to have now.
Organic_Battle_597@reddit
Same as every job I've ever had -- referral by someone I knew. I may end up going my entire career without ever going through the 'front door' as it were. I cannot stress enough how important it is to keep a decent network of people you trust. You already know the culture of the place before you even apply.
chaoism@reddit
First of all, listen to what your therapist says. See if that helps
Second, I seriously think you're just unlucky that you're always stuck in very bad culture. There ARE companies and teams out there that encourage asking questions, because these questions help shaping the product and the engineer. It makes me think you work at Tiktok or something where it's notorious how they don't want you to ask questions (because it makes you look bad for some reason.....)
Yea interview process sucks, and I don't know how we can change that. Maybe once there's more demand and less supply, we will see a different interview process .....
All in all, the only thing I can suggest is to ask some questions during your interviews to check for red flags
Questions like "how do you manage a production outage", "how do you set up your sprint", or "what can you do to help resolving a difference of options between two employees" might be able to reveal some red flags
Legitimate-mostlet@reddit (OP)
I am seeking help, but honestly what goes on in this field is super foreign to her and everyone I talk to that doesn't work in this field. She thinks that this field sounds extremely toxic.
So the places I have worked that had this problem are not big tech companies. They are average paying companies, not big tech. I do know the jobs exists because I did find one like this, but then I lost it due to a layoff. But I have an extremely hard time figuring out how to find these jobs. I even asked all the right questions for my current job, and this place just turned toxic. There is nothing in hindsight I could have done to honestly prevent this during interviewing.
snorktacular@reddit
I don't think it's something you can really vet at the interviewing stage. I think it's something you need vetted by someone in your network who works there, who can then refer you. Way easier said than done, obviously.
ShroomSensei@reddit
Even then it is all defined by your immediate team. I have an awesome team at my current job there are others who I have seen have absolutely terrible times just a couple desks away… it’s like that at any big company. I will never accept an offer without being able to interview with the direct team unless the offer is stupidly good and the risk is worth it.
trembling_leaf_267@reddit
There are some therapists out there that specialize in tech fields. But they're rare, so you might have to look around, if that's an option for you. I tried five therapists before I found one that worked for me.
ruudrocks@reddit
Get a different therapist who’s familiar with the field if you can
vanisher_1@reddit
Did you worked mainly on a fast paced environment like Startups or also for bigger companies?
YahenP@reddit
Well... I'll start by saying that you're a real man if you went to a therapist and the therapist is helping you.
Now for the sad stuff. What's happening to you is a completely normal occurrence in our industry. Each of us has been in your shoes to some degree or another. And often, several times during our careers. This is something that's not usually talked about in our circles, but depression ( medical depression) and burnout are not just a side effect, they're literally one of the things we get paid for. Literally.
Can this be avoided? Probably. But personally, I've never met a software engineer who hasn't been on the edge at least once in their careers. Can this be lived with? Yes. It is. That's what we do. How can the consequences be reduced? A long vacation (at least 1-2 months) and then a change of company. Yes. Today, this sounds like something out of science fiction. But in my opinion, it's the best thing that works. I know engineers who are heavy users of pills. All sorts of sedatives and the like. Things that relieve symptoms. In my opinion, this is not a solution at all. It's just a loan from your future self.
I would advise you to take a vacation. A long vacation. But this is a drug for the rich, unfortunately.
heelek@reddit
I sympathize a lot but you'll barely get anything other than gaslighting here. It's no wonder the industry looks as it looks
sstruemph@reddit
Sometimes, I think being a goat farmer would be nice. And if you have a field, you can be outstanding in it any time.
ninja_cracker@reddit
I have unproven career advice that you should consider carefully:
I think one of the reasons why you are in this cycle of interviewing and pip could be related to the fact that you are a generalist. I assume as much because you yourself stated that the "stacks" changed from job to job.
Consider specializing.
Here are some benefits:
The interviews would be mostly focused on your expertise with a company that seeks your expertise and could very well understand it less than you. These interviews have a different power dynamic.
Having a more secure role introduces more job security and control, and would probably also affect your dynamics in the company.
Controlling deadlines would be easier if you were the matter expert.
... and some other benefits.
Choosing a speciality, studying and finding a job is a difficult path, but today's online community allows this path to be cheaper and easier to do off hours.
The number of different topics that you can in specialize in is endless. DBs, Edge computing, GPUs, ASL and DQLs, ML / AI, distributed systems, optimization algorithms, ... again - endless.
Good luck.
spacedragon13@reddit
I often consider leaving to become a pilot but I used to smoke a lot of weed. I still do, but I used to too.
Legitimate-mostlet@reddit (OP)
Has that limited your ability to get jobs and how have you managed? I think that would also limit security clearance jobs too.
spacedragon13@reddit
Nobody cares but the FAA
TopSwagCode@reddit
Not all jobs are like this. Changing stacks can put you back, if you lack understanding. I always recommend understanding the basic, patterns, design and spend more time on those parts. Rather than just copy pasting code and missing learnings.
You haven't really shared what exactly you work with, but rather just its toxic. But sounds like maybe large enterprise job, where things goes abit slower and no big deadlines would be a better fit? Normally c# and ja a have these kind of jobs.
Focus on your mental health and spend time on what you like. You have provided little details about your situation. Eg. Single? Kids? Hobbies?
Lalalyly@reddit
I work in research as a developer specifically for the environment. I have a lot of freedom in my day to day life, and my colleagues are more likely to help each other than throw each other under the bus. My current job title includes computer engineer (it changes periodically), but I’ve been an RF engineer, research ML engineer, electrical engineer, and computer scientist of some sort before. Many of these jobs included full stack development.
I suggest branching out to something else you might be interested in and be a developer that intersects with your interests. Culture is different for each company. I find that small businesses are hit or miss, but when they are a hit, they knock it out of the park. I have also been avoiding techbro companies and startups because I don’t enjoy most of the cultures associated with them. That has worked well for me for 20+ years.
Legitimate-mostlet@reddit (OP)
Curious, how do you get into research? Did you have to get a masters are higher? I would love to work in stuff for the environment or other scientific endeavors.
Also, how would you recommend finding a smaller company to work for and how do you differentiate them from start ups? How do you find good ones?
Thanks for sharing your story with me.
brrnr@reddit
Don't have any advice but likely you will find this sub to be very invalidating on this topic. Conditions vary so much from job-to-job that some people are truly doing jack and collecting fat check while others are doing 9-9-6 with 12x7 on call. You will find the former have absolutely no sympathy for the latter and mostly want them to just shut up.
I personally have had several absolute and utter dogshit jobs before this one (many cashier/customer service positions and a few manual labor jobs), and so I just wanted to say with confidence that - while there are obviously far worse jobs - this industry can really, truly run you down. It's unfortunately an atrocious time in history to try to make any kind of major life change, but good luck if you do.
Monowakari@reddit
9 hours a day, 9 days a week, 6 weeks a month?
Damn bro here i am doing 7-4-4 like a LOSER
Lalalyly@reddit
I like some aspects of my job to the point that there are short periods of time we are working 12+ hours a day, 7 days a week for up to 3 weeks in a row. I learned early on where my line was for burnout. In these cases, there is something I’m somewhat obsessed with that we are trying to accomplish, and my coworkers that are in it with me tend to be just as obsessive sometimes. These hackathon sprints happen about twice a year and are about two weeks max or I’d be losing my mind.
ajak6@reddit
9-9 ,6 days a week
Monowakari@reddit
👍Right on
snuggly_beowulf@reddit
I suggest asking questions during the interview process related to psychological safety within the team. That is important for team productivity and also for your own mental health. Interviews are a two way street.
snorktacular@reddit
If a manager said that to me I'd laugh in their face. Maybe I'd feel differently if I were more desperate. I've worked at places with poor psychological safety where people were afraid to ask questions in practice, but management still paid lip service to it.
Legitimate-mostlet@reddit (OP)
I hear you and I do that. I once got a job offer and turned it down for this very reason. The hiring manager (this was early in my career) had a problem with me asking about opportunities to learn (like if they had free training courses you could take). I guess they felt one should hit the ground running and not need to learn anything new.
I also had this issue in a previous job as well. So this does seem common, at least from my experience. I agree it shouldn't be this way. But from my experience it seems to be this way.
Active-Razzmatazz-10@reddit
In the same boat, I really do feel ya. I had back to back toxic startups and I feel like they’ve taken everything I had left.
Just gotta keep trying I guess, I have experienced good companies and sounds like you have too, so just gotta keep going until you find something good again.
Keep your wits about you in the interviews and be sure to check Glassdoor and Blind before interviewing too (unless you just want the practice).
Slow-Bodybuilder-972@reddit
I'd recommend looking for other jobs, you're in a bad environment, it's not all like that.
I've been working for 25 years, I'd say I've only had one 'toxic' environment, the rest have been really good.
In my current job, I actually asked about workplace culture in the interviews, and we had a good conversation about it.
Good companies do exist, in fact, I think they outnumber the bad ones, you've just had really shitty luck.
Legitimate-mostlet@reddit (OP)
Do you have advice then on how to find these companies? I guess I grew up and started out in a different field than you did (based on your experience). Right now, I am not exactly picking what companies I work at. I am just working at the ones that will even interview me. Especially now.
I am all ears though if you can explain on how to do this? I would love to get out of this cycle.
Slow-Bodybuilder-972@reddit
Yeah, it's a tough market right now.
I'll be honest, I've mostly ended up in these good environments by luck.
zarikworld@reddit
i’ve been in the same kind of toxic environment, with racist toxicity on top, so i feel where you’re coming from. i spent years asking questions and never got answers, and it broke me down. i had two full burnouts in 16 months, one ended with two weeks in the hospital.
what helped me was making a plan. i couldn’t just quit because of family, but i started working toward leaving corporate and building hybrid freelance part-time work. i’m only three weeks in, but it already feels lighter.
from what i’ve seen, many places carry some level of toxicity. if you still love building things, maybe look for a calmer sector where you can use your skills without the same pressure. and if your gut says it’s not your field anymore, don’t be afraid to walk away. i switched careers when people told me i was too old and it was career suicide, but it worked, slowly, step by step.
you’re not alone in this. there’s always another way.
Legitimate-mostlet@reddit (OP)
Do you have advice on how to pull this off? I have actually started looking into this myself, but never found a viable path to doing it. But maybe I just don't get it.
So, that is the problem though. How do I find that? I only was able to find it once and that company laid off. Even if I managed to get back to that company, I heard it has also turned toxic now as well.
anotherrhombus@reddit
Well, it's America. We've kind of perfected the whole slavery thing. It's about the only thing we do well, you know, outside of hate, anger, ignorance, greed, and obesity.
roodammy44@reddit
I’m 20 years and feeling the same way as you. I thought I would always love programming but the environment the last few years has been awful.
william_fontaine@reddit
It reminds me of 2007-2009, but not quite as bad. The employer attitude though is definitely that we should be grateful to have a job and willing to do whatever it takes to keep it.
Big_Function_N1@reddit
You need to push for WLB yourself unfortunately. I take a very hard stance on extra work outside of hours, or missing lunch. I tell them no, not possible. And I leave it at that, skip phone calls, and call it a day at 5PM.
I have had managers say they actually like my firm responses (after they get use to it). I don't get mad if they ask, but I typically say no.
I give estimates and take note of those estimates if they try to move up the project.
It's hard but eventually it has helped
ajak6@reddit
Push through land at big trch print money for a year or two and rest with a non profit job
roger_ducky@reddit
This is highly location dependent. Certain places, more laid back culture exists at more employers. Other places, everyone is super demanding.
Even different teams in the same company could be run differently.
All I can say is, interview at different places, try them out until you find one you like.
Automatic-Stomach954@reddit
I'm currently pivoting out for similar reasons. For me, this career is a dead end.
Legitimate-mostlet@reddit (OP)
Where are you pivoting and how old are you now (you can give age range if you want)? I am in mid to late 30s and while I am considering pivoting out, I worry about doing it this late.
Automatic-Stomach954@reddit
30ish. Going to medicine. In EMT school and taking college classes right now
db_peligro@reddit
been thinking about this myself. pretty huge step down in pay relative to programming tho.
salty_cluck@reddit
> I like coding
Do you like the other parts of a software developer's job? If not, that might be part of the problem, aside from the toxicity you are encountering. Also, not to invalidate what you're telling us, but you don't really give too many examples of what exactly makes all of these workplaces toxic. What kind of expectations do they ask of you? Do you get performance reviews?
BotBarrier@reddit
Perhaps modifying your expectations may take some of the edge off the situation. For example, your co-workers are co-workers, not friends or even acquaintances. If people don't socialize much at work, then that is just the way it is. To expect otherwise will only lead to disappointment.
Questions are interesting. I have never seen a workplace that shuts down questions. I have seen lines of questioning shutdown. For example, obstacles in the form of questions typically aren't very well received after the pattern is noticed. Challenges to authority guised in the form of questions also don't go over well, especially with certain types of management. Most organizations know that questions lead to better project outcomes and more competent productive staff.
Unrealistic deadlines exist everywhere. Clearly communicating reasonable delivery expectations will go a long way to setting management's expectations.
Please don't think I am laying all this in your lap. Some places just suck and there is nothing that can be done about it. The oversupply of Devs and the hype around AI productivity will make these types of shit-holes more prevalent.
I guess what I'm trying to say is this: If you like this work, figure out how to make it work, if not where you are currently, then somewhere else.
Keep your chin up...
PayLegitimate7167@reddit
I’m thinking of quitting after all these years. The burnout. Yeah I once had one place I liked then got laid off. My interest in programming and engineering keeps me in the job sometimes reluctantly.