What Professions Aren't Respected Anymore?
Posted by Theo_Cherry@reddit | AskUK | View on Reddit | 931 comments
Back in my parents/grandparents generation to be a london bus driver was generally respected, but the way I've seen them get treated by the generally public these days let's me know its just not well regarded anymore.
trysca@reddit
Architect.everyone thinks they are a pretentious and pointless waste of money
David_is_dead91@reddit
How many architects have to actually deal with the general public as part of their work?
trysca@reddit
All of them
David_is_dead91@reddit
Really? I’ve known a few architects and they’ve worked either for the council or in large firms working for government/other private businesses. None of them worked directly with the public.
trysca@reddit
Well I am an architect and have to deal with the public regularly
David_is_dead91@reddit
And you represent all architects do you?
trysca@reddit
No I just happen to have spent my entire working life in the industry so consider myself reasonably positioned to comment on what it is architects do and how that is perceived within the general population
David_is_dead91@reddit
And yet you still said that “all of them [architects]” work directly with the general public, despite that being demonstrably untrue and it not being the case with literally any profession.
You_Gotta_Joint@reddit
Are you for real?
David_is_dead91@reddit
What about my comment suggests I wouldn’t be?
You_Gotta_Joint@reddit
You’re either incredibly naive or playing at it. Dave and Rita down the road want an extension, who is their first point of call? Attic conversion? New house built? Come on!
David_is_dead91@reddit
Cool. I didn’t say zero architects work with the general public, I asked how many. I was told “all of them” which is demonstrably false given that all the architects I’ve personally known have been in non-public facing roles. Your examples are perfectly legitimate but they don’t give any indication of the number of public facing roles in the profession, and I would also go far to suggest that Dave and Rita are not representative of the majority of the general public who are not getting extensions and attic conversions carried out on their homes. An (albeit brief) google search suggests that an architect’s services are not even legally required if you do want these things (although they’re recommended).
RumJackson@reddit
Considering 99% of buildings that have gone up in the last few decades are ugly plastic clad rectangles, they don’t deserve my respect.
WVA1999@reddit
Blame the council or client for that, not the architect. What the client wants, they generally get..
FloydEGag@reddit
This. I’m married to an architect and he’s lost all love for the profession, everything is at the client’s beck and call now and except at the level of grand showpiece buildings and the big star practices there’s no room or budget for creativity, it’s all about developers squeezing every last square foot of space out of a building while pinching the pennies while the architects and drafters have to use software that’s so shit, major practices worldwide have signed a petition to Autodesk to kill it. Loads of his mates and colleagues have left architecture in the last ten years or so.
SometimesJeck@reddit
I think part of the problem with modern buildings too is that you can tell a lot of them were designed on Revit and follow that boxy copy paste job with a rounded corner if somones feeling fancy.
FloydEGag@reddit
Everyone hates Revit!
RumJackson@reddit
Nah. Fuck those Polyvinyl loving troglodytes
bahumat42@reddit
Thats not their fault if thats what they are being told to make.
You wouldn't get mad at a baker who was only making sponge cakes if thats all that was selling. Same applies here.
RumJackson@reddit
I would if I wanted a pain au chocolat
Watsis_name@reddit
I can poing to a lot of buildings that imply architects are pointless.
Diligent-Pea-6472@reddit
i can point to a lot of people that imply free healthcare is useless
You_Gotta_Joint@reddit
Yup, they come up with ever more elaborate designs. Tell the clients that their “grand design” is totally feasible, charge them a fortune, then leave it to the engineers.
ExaminationFancy5641@reddit
Incredibly simplistic and false view of how architects work. Unfortunately not an uncommon view for people who don't really have any experience with or in an architects office.
ProtonHyrax99@reddit
Bank manager used to be a central role in a town. Managing loans the supported local businesses, mortgages, peoples pay, etc. They were fairly well known in the community until maybe the 90s.
Now it’s pretty much analogous to managing retail, has no real community significance, and very little independent decision making.
youtossershad1job2do@reddit
I had a bit of an argument with a "bank manager" due to a ludicrous decision that the system had made.
After a bit of back and forth I asked what his job was of he couldn't reverse a simple mistake on a file when he kept telling me to send a message to a chat bot on the app which didn't understand the issue and no humans were available.
He looked a bit deflated and said "honestly it's largely helping elderly people use the app". I felt really bad at that point, but even angrier at the situation.
Glittering-Sink9930@reddit
Why were you even talking to him?
youtossershad1job2do@reddit
After trying and failing on the useless app I stupidly thought that going to branch would get me in front of somebody who could see there had been a mistake and the get it fixed. When the first person I spoke to heard the issue, said yes that's obviously wrong, have you tried using the app? I asked for the manager who promptly came down and asked me if I had tried the app.
Glittering-Sink9930@reddit
It blows my mind that there are still people who think going to the branch is the way to sort out problems.
These-Barnaclez@reddit
I mean. It blows my mind you think nothing can be sorted by speaking to an in person team in branch.
Always visit your local bank branch, else it'll go. Keep it open, if even for the sake of no. of visitors. All four of my local banks have shut their physical store because people didn't visit enough
Now theres plenty of people struggling as a result
Glittering-Sink9930@reddit
I completely fine with branches disappearing.
In fact, I think it's great.
I deliberately use banks which don't have branches, precisely so that they can't force me to go into a branch for any reason.
balk_man@reddit
That's great until you need to withdraw a large amount of cash
Glittering-Sink9930@reddit
It's 2025. There is no legitimate reason for needing to withdraw more than £300 in cash.
Frosty_312@reddit
I live in a different country from my country of birth/citizenship. I just came from a month long home visit where I obviously needy money to move around. When I was leaving, I needed to withdraw at least 500€ so that I could change it to my local currency at a Forex Bureau when I got home. The other option was to send the money to my local account, but then I would have lost some money because bank exchange rates are shit. There is your legitimate reason.
Glittering-Sink9930@reddit
There is absolutely no way that it was cheaper to exchange cash than to send the money electronically.
https://wise.com/
Working-Business-153@reddit
The problem is that the current setup is engineered such that no accountability is taken by the company for providing solutions outside of the app or website. like yes 95% of problems and enquiries can be solved by the app, but those remaining 5% still need solving (by a human), but companies just fob you off. Going to the branch was at least worth a try, 20 years ago it would have worked immediately, 10 it probably would have, nowadays get fucked.
Glittering-Sink9930@reddit
That's what the phone number on their website is for.
Normal-Ad2587@reddit
You're not getting it are you. App, chatbot, phone number with multiple options, none of which relate to your issue so you pick the closest one, memorable data isn't recognised because you picked it 7 years ago, then after 40 minutes on hold the line goes dead.
We've all been there, normally once a week with the amount of accounts you have to have for daily life.
Sometimes you just need a face to face conversation with someone who's first language is the same as yours and is also a human being.
I find it mind blowing you don't get that.
Glittering-Sink9930@reddit
Choose a bank that doesn't do this.
That's your own fault.
Choose a bank that doesn't do this.
I can honestly say I have never been there. Why are you having to call the bank every week?
I have never needed that.
Normal-Ad2587@reddit
Im in my 40s and im also convinced you're trolling here.
Must be amazing to have a lifetime of hiccup free interactions with all your service providers, energy companies, banks, council, insurance companies etc etc etc.
For you there is no problems! You just instantly know what bank doesn't have waiting times on their customer service lines!
Glittering-Sink9930@reddit
We're not talking about energy companies, councils, or insurance companies (although none of them have branches, so it kind of proves my point).
Well, yeah. There are very well publicised customer satisfaction surveys published each year.
chat5251@reddit
He needed help using the app
Persephone_888@reddit
As someone who works in banking it really sucks when we can't help someone with something like this. I've had a woman who got cut off from all her bank accounts with us, because somehow her child got added onto the account as the main holder and she got taken off. He's under 18 as well and she had 10s of thousands. It was pathetic the way we handled it, I don't know if it was down to am individual or a system error. She was left without any money for months. She had things to pay for ffs, I was pissed off for her, no one should be left without access to THEIR OWN MONEY. My hands were truly tied, I couldn't do anything but get a complaint registered for her. I won't say which bank I work for, but God knows how we are still in business, the amount of BS I see happening daily.
Normal-Ad2587@reddit
I want to screenshot this and post it when people laugh at me for warning against going along with a cashless society.
bigmonmulgrew@reddit
I don't think being cashless is really that big an issue in itself. Even with cashless if the bank has a system error you can't draw it out.
What's really a problem is the zero customer service business model becoming standard
toby_gray@reddit
Yes, this! I was trying to open a business account with HSBC and their application app was just broken. Only person I could speak to was a chat bot who insisted it would work.
‘When I click next nothing happens’
‘Thank you. If you click next, the page will open.’
‘It doesn’t open when I click next’
‘Please click next and the page will open’
And so on.
ArrowedKnee@reddit
I really think there needs to be some kind of external regulation of customer service, especially of financial institutions - almost every company out there is doing the absolute bare minimum and it's getting worse and worse now they can use AI chatbots as well as outsourcing.
bigmonmulgrew@reddit
Completely agree. Since data science became a thing companies have been making changes faster than laws can keep up, even when there's someone in power willing.
Many companies noticed years ago that doing a shit job is more profitable than doing a good job
The ISPs are a great example. People get annoyed and leave. When their contract is up they get annoyed and leave. They end up just doing laps around different providers. The ISPs are more than an happy just trading disgruntled customers. It's cheaper a than upgrading their infrastructure and providing customer service
Veflas510@reddit
Unless you’re keeping your money in a shoebox under your bed then this person would have the same problem if we were a cashless society or not.
Normal-Ad2587@reddit
You need a shoe box to hold enough cash for some food shopping and fuel for 3 months?
Im assuming in this specific situation that bills and direct debits are still coming out or can be paid later.
So we're just talking enough money to live comfortably until the situation is resolved. Not bills. Nobody's getting turfed out by a landlord or taken to court by an energy company in this amount of time.
3k maximum emergency fund stashed away somewhere safe isn't unreasonable mate.
When cash goes for good, this won't be an option. Nobody is saying get rid of digital, just that we need to keep cash as an option for when technology fails or something more deliberate happens.
Living-Excuse1370@reddit
Yeah, people don't realise that a cashless society doesn't benefit us. It only serves to control us! Stop using credit cards! Stop supporting the system! Use cash!
UnacceptableUse@reddit
It benefits me when I can see what I spent my money on
taulish_paul@reddit
Get a receipt when you pay cash.
UnacceptableUse@reddit
And then spend time transferring and aggregating all my receipts? The card does that for me
taulish_paul@reddit
Yes, and it can also be done with cash and receipts if one had other reasons to not want to use cards.
UnacceptableUse@reddit
That's true, but the comment said cards don't benefit us. That part is a benefit for me
crystalrock1974@reddit
How do you get your cash out if there is a an issue with your accounts? The woman above couldn't get her money in cash or on card. To use cash you still have to use the bank. Back in the day in factory work the security van came every Friday afternoon with our cash wages in a brown envelope that will never happen again we will always have to use banks using cash just stops them seeing what you spend your money on. Oh and im all for cash after the council wanting my bank accounts last year and I saw no relevance to them needing to see what I spent my money on.
Normal-Ad2587@reddit
You don't wait until it's gone wrong before thinking to get your cash out.
You maintain a cash float for such occasions.
Im surprised that needed explaining to be honest....
Johnnycrabman@reddit
The majority of transactions are cashless though. No one is walking out of work at the end of the month with an envelope containing £3k and then going to their mortgage provider and peeling off a stack of notes. The biggest losers in a cashless society are those operating cash in hand to avoid tax, and the biggest winners are HMRC and the banks with their transaction fees.
Normal-Ad2587@reddit
Im not arguing for a digital-less society, just advising against a cashless one.
It's wise to have both options for individual occasions such the many being mentioned on this sub or a larger event.
centzon400@reddit
From personal experience out in the sticks, I can say that a decent amount of 'the economy' is still barter. I'll do x for you, you do y for me. Sorted.
Obviously this does not work down the Co-Op when I must have Pringles, but I can still get eggs, milk and meat on this plan.
Svengelska1990@reddit
Weird that the co op is ok with it for everything except pringles
dwair@reddit
Don't believe them. You can get Pringles for badger pelts if you ask to speak to Sue.
Beneficial-Dot--@reddit
Ah! I always thought she was called Badger Pelt Sue for her hairy arms!
1-Man-on_A-mission@reddit
It does work.
You just have to say Pringles in exchange for not blowing your face off with this Shottie.
It usually works. No money involved
GirlFromBlighty@reddit
You'd be amazed what you can barter for still. There's a YouTube I used to watch who was trying to live without money as much as possible & he exchanged social media posts for dental work!
mata_dan@reddit
100%
It's my job to make things like that never happen. My back is so sore... so very sore...
slade364@reddit
I see your point, but that ship has long sailed. Most people are paid via BACS already.
If I see somewhere that only takes cash I just go somewhere else, because I can't be arsed to find a cash point.
ChipCob1@reddit
I don't think hoarding tens of thousands at home would be the solution.
alwayspostingcrap@reddit
Obviously not. We could establish a central building in the community which job was to guard everyone's money. It could link to other buildings around the world, so when someone wanted to take money out somewhere else they could send a message down to their home money storage building to ask if they had the money. I forsee this system having no flaws whatsoever...
Little_Spread5384@reddit
You know they could take your money off you just as quick with cash.
That note and coin is just an IOU.
ieuanj_00@reddit
Lol, that cash would be in the bank regardless. No one hoards massive amounts of cash unless they're criminals
JTitch420@reddit
Happy cake day
Persephone_888@reddit
Thank you!
Curious_Ad3766@reddit
I am really surprised it took that long as banks tend to have a good complaints process (compared to other industries) as its mandated and highly regulated by the FCA. FCA mandates that the bank must investigate and resolve the complaint within 8 weeks but in my experience banks have internal policies which tend to be quicker- for e.g. it's usually 5-10 working days at the one I work in. I would have thought something this serious would be prioritised and resolved ASAP. And from the brief complaint handling training I have done, this customer would be entitled to financial compensation for this mistake.
Also, because her child still had access, couldn't she have used "his" card? Or asked her child to log in and transfer the money to another account?
Persephone_888@reddit
I don't want to give too much information away but neither of those options were viable unfortunately. Also, she didn't bank with anyone else, just us. Trust me I spent literal hours with this poor woman, I was giving her call backs every week to get this sorted. I made referrals, I spoke to higher ups, they said I couldn't do anything but let the complaints team resolve it 😒
It was honestly one of the most bizarre situations I've had, no one could explain it or how to resolve it.
sleepingellis@reddit
I will take a guess and say TSB. Years ago they put a freeze on our bank account even though there was several hundreds of pounds in it. No reason for it at all apart from the fact I had used the cash machine in a town 50 miles from our home twice. These local people who worked in the bank knew my husband was in the hospital there after a near fatal accident. Instead of trying to help they made our lives even more stressful. I was stuck in that town with our 3 young children and no money and no way to get home. After that we closed our account with them.
zoomoovoodoo@reddit
I'm gonna guess NatWest, they're taking too long to let me into my own account rn
PositiveBread80@reddit
My dad had a nightmare with them - somehow their systems decided that he'd died, so it locked his accounts, and any attempt to explain that he wasn't dead got directed to the bereavement team
ringadingdingbaby@reddit
I got robbed in Africa and my phone and wallet was taken but I still had my backup card.
Online banking told me to go onto the app to verify my identity, the app needed me to verify my phone and the chat kept telling me to log on to digital banking. At the same time I couldn't get through the stupid AI chat to talk to actually talk to someone.
Whats the point of having my username, password, facial recognition/biometrics if they will still lock you and leave you stranded.
eco78@reddit
Name and shame. Don't let other people potentially get into that situation, if it really is that lax name them. This is an anonymous app after all
Persephone_888@reddit
If anyone I know came across my account, it's extremely obvious it's me lol
Ok_Resident3556@reddit
It is a nightmare when things go wrong. My bank froze my card and it took a week to unlock it, because those computer system flagged a small transaction (around £10 I think) on the Nintendo estore to download a cheap switch game (not an unusual transaction for me, obviously not every week but regular enough that it shouldn’t have looked suspicious). I don’t understand why they can instantly freeze it but it took a week for them to unfreeze it.
I was ok because I have credit cards and could use the joint account so I could still buy petrol to get to work the following week, and food for the week, but it’s hardly unforeseeable for someone to have one bank account, one debit card, no other cards so freezing their bank card would really leave them in the shit if they can’t get it unblocked in a reasonable timeframe.
iShouldEatLessCarbs@reddit
So she added him to the account and removed herself....to commit fraud? LOL! And u felt really bad for her the bank closed her account lol
Persephone_888@reddit
That's not what I said...
iShouldEatLessCarbs@reddit
You said her child who is under 18 'somehow got added to the account', and she had '10s of thousands in the account', and that 'somehow she got removed from the account'.
Are you new to your job? Or did you not complete any fraud training? 10s of thousands went into her account...she added her kid to it as a joint account through the app and then removed herself, so she's out the picture.
She could have opened savings accounts with other banks that don't require a credit or identity check, used them to receive payments from facebook scams, 'transfer the money first for these shoes/medicine/whatever', then transfer it into this account which she was told would be safe as it's now 'not in her name'.
Calls through to you with a sob story saying she doesn't know what's happened it must have been someone else i need the money for food, etc. and then you write comments like this online.
There's a lot happening with banks you need to think critically and read between the lines about.
shiftym21@reddit
are you ok
thehappyotter34@reddit
My wife has an account with NatWest and we wanted to convert it to a joint account for our bills. We went into the branch as we were passing, thinking it can't be that hard. We were just told to get our phones out and use the app. When we encountered a problem they kindly showed us where to open the live chat on the app to fix it. What's the point!
Needless to say, we're now with First Direct.
Dull-Addition-2436@reddit
Ever noticed how bank adverts are aimed at getting “old people” to use the internet and their app
Big_Midnight_9400@reddit
I'm Gen X and don't use the banking apps. For me, my phone is mainly a phone and I use another internet device solely for banking using their websites.
Dull-Addition-2436@reddit
Why, it’s so much easier via the app. Hell Monzo don’t even have a website you can manage your account from.
Big_Midnight_9400@reddit
Lose your phone or even download malware and you're very possibly in the shit.
I could lose my phone or download malware and it won't affect any of my bank accounts.
Dull-Addition-2436@reddit
Why? I still have a card, and spare devices and I can use. I’ve not had to use a high street bank, or phone one, in over 10 years.
And I would trust Mozo’s security over any high street bank. Look up how they compare
ieuanj_00@reddit
What are the speech marks around old people for?
Dull-Addition-2436@reddit
“Because”
Darkheart001@reddit
I couldn’t agree more with this, I had to submit some documents for my mortgage and was genuinely astonished that nobody in the branch knew how to do it. They logged into an internal web portal and fumbled around for 20 minutes and this was their “mortgage specialist”.
What was clear was that the people in the branches don’t have any authority and precious little training. I think that’s the main reason for the lack of respect, they don’t have the skills or the power to effect change.
DorisWildthyme@reddit
I had to deal with a total arsehole of a bank manager about 11 years ago, and nearly missed out on getting my mortgage approved because I didn't have proof of address for somewhere that I had lived for about 9 months. The bills had been split with fellow tenants, and mine had all been paperless because it "saved trees", as had my bank statements, and I had already changed the dates on my passport and driving licence. I was told that I should be able to go into my bank, who had all my details on file, and the manager should be able to write a short letter to verify that I had been at that address for that time.
Unfortunately, when I got there, all I was told was that they could "print off some statements" for me from that period of time. The problem with that was that they would show my then current address, not the address I had been living at during the period in question. When I politely tried to explain this to the manager, and I just needed him to write a letter, he got ridiculously angry with me and actually told me "there is no such thing as a letter!", before dismissing me from his office.
Thankfully I was able to find a work around with the (different) building society to get the mortgage approved, but that bank manager had been a Grade A C*nt.
The Moral of the Story: Don't go paperless for all of your utilities, because at some point you will need Proof of Address.
Jhe90@reddit
Yeah, its pretty much a admin role now.
No_Tailor_5157@reddit
Thw bank manager has been replaced by the personal banker.
If you want that service its that engagement you want.
notactuallyabrownman@reddit
I feel like this is probably a correct realignment, since they aren't personally responsible for any money or as many decisions these days.
baldeagle1991@reddit
To secure loans over a certain value it used to be left up to Branch managers to decide. It's all centralised now.
Scarboroughwarning@reddit
I worked in a private bank. They still do it the old way, to a degree.
Was like stepping back in time
SchrodingersCigar@reddit
Is that a good thing or a bad thing?
mr_rocket_raccoon@reddit
It's a right tool for the job question.
I run the department that builds these models for a UK bank.
Scorecards which automatically pull bureau data (centralised drivers related to your financial health from companies like equifax and experian) are enormously more efficient, faster and have no human bias. Meaning quicker decisions, less overheads on people and quicker rate changes. As well as shared insights to help exclude fraudsters.
However it works best for large volumes of homogeneous information, like people wanting mortgages for houses to live in, or credit cards for personal use.
Where you have higher net worth, business loans or other commercial lending, the process is far more manual and relies on the expertise of the underwriters as it is worth their extra effort and time to get to the right result.
Scarboroughwarning@reddit
No idea.
Things got done though. And, they dealt with wealthy folks. So, must have been popular.
Definitely_Human01@reddit
Not sure if you can compare those banks specialising in serving HNIs to your average retail bank.
Blyd@reddit
Your average retail bank of the 1950's sure. When you are dealing with high net worth individuals they pay a lot for their services, a 1% service charge means nothing to them but 1% of a 100mn annual spend is a chunk of change.
They can pick up their business very easily, it's not as if it's them filling out th enew paper work after all so they expect a white glove service.
Sadly everyone used to get that once upon a time.
Ivebeenfurthereven@reddit
Relevant article I read yesterday: Disney and the Decline of America's Middle Class
The UK is not immune from this at all.
ProtonHyrax99@reddit
Yeah, that’s what I mean by the role now having no real decision making anymore. Loans and mortgages are now decided by checklist / algorithm from the head office.
That’s why a lot of people would know them (and want to be on their good side).
I guess removing the personal judgement element is fairer, and reduces the possibility of discrimination / favouritism, but it does mean the job is now a shadow of what it was.
adeathcurse@reddit
I remember in the 90s I was moving house as a child, and for some reason I wasn't the autograph of everyone in my little village as something to remember them by. I was going around our village pub (which my dad ran) and I remember asking one man for his autograph. Everyone laughed because he was the local bank manager (I was 7 and just knew him as "man in pub") and they made some joke about how I would forget his signature to give everyone loans.
I miss proper community like that tbh.
Vehlin@reddit
Computer says no
JavaRuby2000@reddit
When my dad was last moving house we found a bunch of old correspondence between him and his bank manager at the midland bank. He was trying to get a car loan for a new Citroen BX diesel and there was a pile of handwritten letters going backwards and forwards between him and the bank manager. The bank manager asking for particular car reviews and weather that particular car was suitable for my dads needs etc..
Vorkos_@reddit
I've got to admit I'm certainly part of this. If I met someone who told me they were a bank manager, I'd immediately think they were just another finance bro/gal without any genuine responsibility.
Could be because as a 27 year old, I've had next to no experience with that profession my entire life.
saccerzd@reddit
A bank manager (as in the person in your high street branch) is very, very different to a finance bro (working in a city, investment banking or similar, very high wage + bonuses).
demidom94@reddit
Can confirm - we basically just manage the team and handle basic cash in, cash out transactions these days. Everything is centralised and computerised, and whenever someone says "I want to speak to the manager" I have to inform them that I absolutely cannot help them any further than my team can. Our role is basically redundant.
Snorkel64@reddit
the trouble was it often bred up their own a*** judgemental twats Who treated it as their own money and provided an undeserved status to match
his chums from the golf club, church or lodge? never a problem
The great unwashed? oooft not the right sort and an entirely different story
Spanish inquisition if there was even a hint that sort had gotten ideas above their station, and wanted a mortgage or loan
tracyg76@reddit
When do you actually get to meet the bank manager these days.? Distance breeds disrespect I guess.
BadgerOff32@reddit
Yeah I remember my dad having to drive to his bank a few towns over to "talk to the Bank Manager" quite a few times when I was a kid.
Looking back it was probably because he was struggling financially and needed loans, but I never really thought about that as a kid. I just thought "seeing the Bank Manager" was something you had to do every now and then as an adult.
In my entire 20+ years as an adult, I think I've seen a bank manager once, maybe twice? And that was probably 20 years ago lol.
gnorrn@reddit
Your comment makes me think of “Dad’s Army”. Mainwaring certainly seemed to think he was the most important person in the town.
20127010603170562316@reddit
My grandad got dressed up in his Sunday finest for meetings with the bank manager.
Nowadays, I'm talking to some overseas person with no understanding of, any situation really, reading from a script.
Normal-Ad2587@reddit
It's probably because the facade has dropped to reveal the once mythical, admired and respected trustee of your pay packet......to be nothing more than a retail salesman like you say.
Banks are no different to sports direct. They want to sell you a product and make money off your money and that's it! By making it all smoke and mirrors and overly official, it made it seem like Captain Mainwaring was doing you a favour by giving you that bank loan or mortgage. We're a bit more well informed now as to what it's all about.
AnOtherGuy1234567@reddit
The IT wave of the late '80s and in particular the recession of the early '90s. Saw a huge reduction in the power of and need for middle management. With it being a very easy area to cut.
SchrodingersCigar@reddit
Its either a valid cut or The Doorman Fallacy, not sure which TBH
AnOtherGuy1234567@reddit
Computer says no.
Dapper-Lab-9285@reddit
No person dealing with the public is respected anymore.
I've no idea how retail or hospitality staff put up with the amount of shit that they get and they aren't even paid well. At least the Police or teachers are relatively well paid but even thats not enough for the abuse that they get.
Laylelo@reddit
Teachers aren’t well paid for the hours they put in. Most people don’t even know they aren’t paid for school holidays even though they’re expected to work during them either. They’re paid pro rata. No other profession would work when they’re not being paid, much less be on call like many teachers are if they have safeguarding responsibilities.
OZZYMK@reddit
This post just shows how disrespected teachers are. People claiming they only work 9 months, get paid for holidays etc. I worked as a teacher for 2 years. Hardest job I've ever done by a million miles. I'm in cybersecurity now and it's an absolute doddle in comparison
obliviious@reddit
I have a friend who went to work in customer service because it was less stressful than teaching and more free time.
That tells you everything.
saccerzd@reddit
Well, you'd expect customer service to be less stressful and have more free time than teaching, surely. I think the real indicator is that lots of professional jobs you would think of as more stressful and with longer hours than teaching actually aren't/don't.
tar-mirime@reddit
Anything involving customer service is going to be stressful when you have people shouting and throwing stuff at you.
saccerzd@reddit
Fair enough. Perhaps I'm judging customer service jobs by how I treat those workers, not how dickheads behave towards them. I just figured that while they are dealing with members of the public - and a lot of them are awful - teachers are doing the same (dealing with pupils and parents who might be rude/abusive/violent etc) and I imagined teachers' stress would be higher because (i) they probably care more about the outcomes of their job and are more passionate about their vocation, which is understandable, and (ii) they take their work home with them in a way I imagine doesn't happen with customer service jobs, and (iii) they probably work longer hours.
tar-mirime@reddit
I think teaching is a ridiculously hard job, so I'm not wanting to dismiss the stress and effort of the job, there are a number of teachers in my family.
But customers can be awful, and too many people have no respect for people working in retail - whether that's being verbally (and sometimes physically) abusive, creepy and inappropriate (too many men thought it was fine to put their arm around me), or just rude or snobbish.
Then there's if you get a bad manager, general working conditions, not sticking to their own contracts (or the law!) regarding working hours and breaks...
obliviious@reddit
I'm assuming you've never worked in customer service or been a teacher
SnooMacarons9618@reddit
I know a few teachers. When they were newly qualified they were working 14+ hours a day. The amount of lesson prep they needed to do was insane.
This was for younger kids too, so they didn't have a homework load to also mark. I can't believe how badly teachers are treated, and how much they have to do. I knew a dude who taught wood and metal work, during summer holidays he did temp work for a film studio, which sounded like it made him about the same amount as teaching, but... he loved teaching. That dude would have earned a significant amount more just doing his temp job full time and not teaching, it's crazy.
tar-mirime@reddit
One of my primary school teacher getting on for 40 years ago would tell us that she was often working until 10pm. Nothing I've seen about teaching has suggested any improvement since then.
Ewendmc@reddit
I did 12 years teaching. I left and went into sales and customer service as it was less stressful and less depressing.
Kono1989@reddit
We had a teacher join our team, new career because teaching sucked. She went back to teaching within six months. I’m a housing officer.
LynxEqual9518@reddit
What does a housing officer do?
nezzzzy@reddit
I struggle to imagine many jobs harder than being a teacher. Christ it's exhausting looking after my 2 children, when they have friends over I'm half dead after 2 hours. How the fuck do you do 30 all day every day?
platoonhippopotamus@reddit
I trained as a teaches for 4 years and didn't go into it. The placements, and the urging of every teacher met to do something else, meant I went straight into bottom rung IT as soon as my dissertation was handed in.
I now make much more than I would have and have a set 9-5 job.
Even though the placements were only 6 weeks each and I wasn't fully responsible for the class I couldn't believe just how much work was required outside the classroom just to keep your head above water. Marking, lesson plans, making resources at home with your own kit etc.
So glad I chose to do something else. Of the 10 people I keep in touch with from my course only 2 are still teaching 5 years later. The other 8 tried it for a couple of years before jumping ship
Admittedly they all actually tried whereas I didn't even get a teaching job but anecdotally very few stick it out even when they've clearly got a passion and aptitude for it
Prestigious-Slide-73@reddit
How did you pivot into cyber security?
Are you qualified in IT? I’ve looked into a computer science masters but it’s out of my budget at the moment.
widdrjb@reddit
My daughter began as an LSA and has slithered sideways into pastoral care. She's given up on taking her PGCE because of the daily bullshit.
Master-Definition937@reddit
They’re paid their salary the whole year in this country. It’s America where they don’t get paid in the holidays.
Laylelo@reddit
They aren’t paid for the holidays, but they are paid in the holidays. Their wages are divided into 12 and paid monthly but it doesn’t cover the holidays.
doctorocelot@reddit
I am a teacher. Yes it does. We are salaried not hourly paid so yes we are paid for the holidays.
Wild_Cauliflower_970@reddit
You're wrong.
CoffeeHead22@reddit
I am also a teacher and this is incorrect. We are paid for 10 months of directed time. 2 months is not directed time and therefore not paid for. Payments are spread across 12 months.
Laylelo@reddit
Look at your contract.
yonthickie@reddit
Unless, of course, you are a supply teacher. Then you get nothing during the holidays, or any day when there is no work offered. I am sitting here hoping for the work to start coming in soon, since I have had no pay since the middle of July.
highrouleur@reddit
I've never even thought about that.
Are you basically self employed? Go through agencies/local authority?
Do you do supply work because there weren't vacancies in a school so you do it as next best option and hope for a permanent to become available?
yonthickie@reddit
At first I worked supply to fit around child care, then because I was not physically able to work every day. So now I have worked this way for 36 years.
I used to work through local authorities , when you got 1/195 of your teacher salary for each day worked. Then they stopped that and made every one go through an agency, so you have to negotiate your own wage. That wage is always well below what it used to be, so that I am about £70 a day down on what the old system would pay me. So I get nothing for days with no worked offered, or for holidays and I have to sit every morning and wait to see if there is work.
I couldn't do it without my Disability payment and my tiny teacher pension. Since Supply teachers can't pay into the Teacher Payment scheme, I started to claim mine years ago, it is not much, gained from the years I worked before having children, but it helps. I have just over a year to go before I can get my state pension, and I am physically dragging at this point.
highrouleur@reddit
Thanks for replying. I'm really sorry, I had no idea its that bad. I'm speechless. Fuck
yonthickie@reddit
It does grate a bit that if I had been able to contribute to the teacher pension as a supply then I would have been able to retire in my mid 50s. Instead I am 65 and still working. Ah well, no reports or parents evenings for 36 years, so that's something!
FoxesFan91@reddit
I don't understand, how are they not paid for the holidays if they receive pay 12 months a year, including during holidays?
They are paid an agreed upon salary amount per year right? And that is then split into 12 monthly payments right?
lizeih@reddit
Yes but their salary is based and calculated on the hours they work during term time. Often you will see school/teaching job listings that say the salary, but pro rata, so if it's advertised at say £50k pro rata, that's what they would be paid IF they worked 52 weeks per year. They're only getting paid for I think 36 weeks a year so it's actually £34.5k, but paid in 12 installments, rather than having irregular pays. Means that once you add on the hours they work outside of term time, their hourly pay would equate to much much less.
FoxesFan91@reddit
Thanks for the explanation, appreciate it. I understand now
Laylelo@reddit
It’s crazy that people don’t accept this is true. A few teachers on here need to read their contracts.
The__Pope_@reddit
So what actual difference does it make?
Laylelo@reddit
Working when you’re not actually being paid for it is a pretty big one.
People saying school holidays should be shorter - no one ever discusses how much of a non starter this is because the staff are not paid for that period of time so you’d have to increase their pay to cover it.
Master-Definition937@reddit
That’s just not true though. They agree a salary and are paid that in full.
In the US they are given a headline salary but actually receive less money than that.
centzon400@reddit
'America' is not a monolith. Can you please stop?
My wife used to teach middle-school in Rhode Island, and she DID get paid through the year.
Easy_Kangaroo9800@reddit
Okay but this is a UK sub, where pro rata isn't applicable.
The person you're being a bit rude to was just clarifying we have salaries here.
centzon400@reddit
IK this is a UK subreddit. It is painfully obvious because you/we all seem to enjoy poking fun at Americans. I do it. I'm a frequent poster on shitamericansay. Why? Because I'm a Northern Irish twat who was fortunate enough to meet an ~~American~~ Texan at uni and live in her country for ca. 20 years.
The person I responded to is factually wrong.
Easy_Kangaroo9800@reddit
I'm not poking fun at anyone? Just your energy feels really aggressive and I think people are a bit confused where the anger is coming from.
centzon400@reddit
So I am both "rude" and "aggressive" for saying what, exactly? Stop thinking that you know about the United States because you have seen a few movies?
(I agree with you that people chewing with their mouth open is sus)
Easy_Kangaroo9800@reddit
😂 okay bro have fun rooting through my comment history, not weirdly aggressive at all
Cypher-V21@reddit
In the UK teachers wages are suppressed because of the holidays. Historically teacher and doctor pay was of a similar level.
ImBaldAndOld@reddit
We don't get paid for holidays...we are pro-rata paid. Have another go.
HonkersTim@reddit
I dont understand this. Teachers jobs are advertised with an annual salary, like most other jobs. They get given it in 12 instalments like most other jobs. How does that make your pay 'pro-rata'?
ImBaldAndOld@reddit
No... https://www.teachinherts.com/career-advice/salary-calculator.htm
HonkersTim@reddit
That's not for teachers.
Master-Definition937@reddit
Ok but you get all of your contractual salary in full right?
In America they get less than their stated salary because they only get paid for the days they work.
musicfortea@reddit
No one cares about America
ImBaldAndOld@reddit
Not even Americans...
doctorocelot@reddit
Yes we do! I am a teacher. I get paid a salary, that salary is not reduced because of holidays. My salary is ≈60k I get paid 60k not 60k minus some holidays. Stop repeating this falsehood.
ImBaldAndOld@reddit
I believe that's called pro-rata pay...
xp3ayk@reddit
Can I clarify (my partner is a teacher but he's a bit rubbish with money).
So if his headline annual salary is ~40k according to the pay scale, is he not actually getting 40k per year? Is that figure pro rated?
Master-Definition937@reddit
No, he’s getting £40k per year as a salaried employee, it would be really unusual if he wasn’t
xp3ayk@reddit
I see, so is it the headline hourly rate which people are referring to as prorated?
Master-Definition937@reddit
They just don’t know what they’re talking about, there’s no such thing as an hourly rate for salaried employee
xp3ayk@reddit
Well that's a relief, it would have been an unpleasant surprise to find out that our household income is significantly less than I thought!
doctorocelot@reddit
People are talking out their arse.
The__Pope_@reddit
But if you get paid every month what difference does it make?
tar-mirime@reddit
Lets say a job pays 5k a month which equals 60k a year.
So the argument is that a teacher would have three months taken out of that, so would earn 45k a year, divided by 12 so they don't have periods of no pay, making 3,750/mth in this example. This isn't subtracted from an advertised wage, but when setting the wage, an assumption of not working in the school holidays is assumed.
Whether this is true or not I don't know, but this is the argument for getting paid less while still being paid monthly through the year.
H16HP01N7@reddit
That's funny, because actual teachers have said differently to your comment...
Master-Definition937@reddit
Find me one teacher in this country that doesn’t get their full salary as stated on this contract.
Glittering-Sink9930@reddit
The only unique thing about the teaching profession is that almost every single person in it has experienced education, and nothing else.
They went to school, went to university, did their PGCSE, then became a teacher. They've never experienced what normal jobs are like, so they end up saying silly things like:
Far_Stranger_3148@reddit
Not true.. like any profession plenty of teachers have performed other roles previously.. others have also had jobs whilst at college and uni like almost every single person who has ever been a student
Glittering-Sink9930@reddit
There aren't many professions where you have to do a specific qualification before you can work. The overwhelming majority (I reckon over 95%) of teachers did school, university, PGCE, teacher.
I come from a family of teachers, so I know a lot of them, plus all of the ones who taught me and my siblings. The only teachers I know who didn't come straight from university were:
Far_Stranger_3148@reddit
You know there’s an entire world out there that exists beyond your family right..? 🤷🏽♀️
Glittering-Sink9930@reddit
Yes, that's why 2 of the 3 people I mentioned were not family members, along with every other teacher I've ever had.
Far_Stranger_3148@reddit
P.s. there are plenty of professions ‘where you have to do a specific qualification before you can work’… 😐 do you even exist in the real world..??
adeathcurse@reddit
Yeah a lot of teachers take a PGCE after they've been in their respective field for a while and want a change (or basically need to admit they can't make it in their chosen field).
beneaththegardenwall@reddit
I tried teacher training after leaving a corporate 9-5.
Realised that the expectations for time invested are so far above normal, I jumped ship and became an LSA.
You physically cannot avoid working 50-60 hour weeks if you want to coast, not excel - that's the difference. The bare minimum requirement is 10-20 hours overtime a week (but remember, its all ok cos you only work 9 months a year...)
Glittering-Sink9930@reddit
Well yeah. In other jobs, you might also work those hours, but you don't get 6 weeks off in the summer.
beneaththegardenwall@reddit
I also don't know of any jobs that require you to prepare your work in your annual leave so you can do your job once you're back 🤣🤣
Glittering-Sink9930@reddit
This is fairly common.
UncertainBystander@reddit
I think you are generalising a bit. A lot of people move into teaching after having done other things: it’s a really tough, exhausting job and very underpaid.
Glittering-Sink9930@reddit
Underpaid, yes.
But I don't think it's particularly tough compared to many other jobs. And I disagree that a lot of people move into teaching from other jobs.
ichirin-no-hana@reddit
A lot of people I trained with were ex police or military, I think they've got a special route for them
any_excuse@reddit
Most jobs don’t expect you to work for nothing.
Yes a lot of employers are shit and will pressure staff to work for free, but I’ve literally never had one where it was mandatory and unpaid.
Maybe you should try sticking up for yourself?
Glittering-Sink9930@reddit
If it's "mandatory and unpaid", it's not a job. It's slavery.
Modern slavery is a real problem, but it's not what we're talking about here.
Curious_Ad3766@reddit
Aren't full time teachers annually contracted so their salary is spread equally across 12 months? Depending on your contract, your company could ask you to work overtime as long your hourly wage doesn't fall below minimum wage. In last job in consulting, my contract stated that I could be asked to work longer hours as my role required but no extra pay.
HonkersTim@reddit
Huh? Teachers ARE paid for school holidays, what are you smoking. My ex-wife is a teacher.
Laylelo@reddit
They are paid DURING the holidays but not FOR the holidays. I’m surprised she didn’t know this.
Just because they divide it up and pay you 12 months of the year doesn’t mean you’re being paid for the time you work.
Teachers are paid for directed and non directed hours. Add it up and see what they’re being paid. It’s not a full year.
HonkersTim@reddit
Teachers are employed on an annual salary, not an hourly one. How do you figure that they aren't being paid for what they work?
Dividing up an annual salary and paying you 12 months of the year is how wages work.
TheDanjinSpear@reddit
Plenty of professions work overtime unpaid.
RJT6606@reddit
They should really stop doing that then.
TheDanjinSpear@reddit
Same to teachers. Manage your time and workload better.
School starts at 9 and finishes at 3.20 in most cases. Working after 3:20 isn't over time..it's a normal job. Starting before 9 isn't either.
Manzilla48@reddit
So teachers are paid for 8:30-4:30 but should be expect to work an hour before their paid time begins and many hours after it including at weekends for free forever?
TheDanjinSpear@reddit
No they should work between 8:30 and 4:30 which is a pretty short shift.
Manzilla48@reddit
But most of that time is with the children which is a hugely demanding job in itself and then after the kids have left there is a mountain of preparation, marking, phone calls and admin which cannot be done in an hour
TheDanjinSpear@reddit
Honestly. I have never heard a profession that complains so much when they are well compensated and get great holidays.
Manzilla48@reddit
Do you realise that those people are complaining for a reason? The pay sounds great but when matched to the actual hours worked isn’t that good and the holidays make up for the huge amount of over time done for free. Match that with dwindling budgets and increased workload and you can see why people are not happy.
TheDanjinSpear@reddit
The pay is very good. The hours are on par with most professional jobs. That's my point. They are not some persecuted profession. They do a job like everyone else, get well compensated and get better holidays than most in the UK.
Manzilla48@reddit
But the pay isn’t good when you realise it’s stretched over the holidays and huge amount of time after school hours. So the pay per hour is actually pretty bad.
If teaching is such a lovely, well paid job with great holiday why don’t you give it a go? See if those moaning teachers were just pretending to be stressed, tired, overworked and under pressure from management and parents.
TheDanjinSpear@reddit
Look this is always the response when anyone even dares criticise a teacher or those in the teaching profession. Let's flip it, why don't they pack it in if it is that bad/stressful/difficult a job.
Again, many jobs have strains and things much much harder than a teacher has to suffer through. Hell the amount of parents that coasted through COVID teaching their kids was ace!
Teaching is a difficult job, however acting like they are diving on a grenade or saving humanity is what I can't be done with. Do your job and stop moaning or find a new job.
You get well paid, you strike when you don't get your way.
Manzilla48@reddit
They don’t pack it in because they enjoy the job and understand how important it is. I understand you’re probably a troll with comments like “teachers should just manage their time better” which is similar to saying “homeless people should just get a job”.
The reason I’m saying you should try teaching is still see if it’s as hard as teachers complain about or just a load of old fuss.
TheDanjinSpear@reddit
Again. Loads of jobs are hard. I'm not saying teaching is easy. I am saying they always act like the most hard done by individuals when they are well compensated and get great holidays. Something most people only wish for.
Someone is not a troll because they don't agree with you.
We will get nowhere here, there is nowhere that an opinion on the internet has been changed. Enjoy your day.
Manzilla48@reddit
The troll aspect of your comments is the whole “just manage your time better” which is a silly thing to say. Even the most efficient and organised teachers will spend large amounts of their evenings and weekends working for free - this is nothing to do with being bad at time management.
I agree teachers do like a moan but it’s with good reason. Decreased funding, more pressure from above and demanding parents have put strain on the profession. That’s why I reccomend working at a school to see for yourself.
TheDanjinSpear@reddit
I'm good. Like I have said there are much more stressful jobs than that one.
Manzilla48@reddit
Well obviously? No one is saying teaching is as stressful as being an SAS operator but your original point was saying teachers need to manage their time better which is naive, ignorant comment because it’s not a time management problem it’s a work load problem. Funny how your position has changed to now stating the obvious.
TheDanjinSpear@reddit
No they could definitely manage their time better. When I pick my son up at 3.20 the teachers are also leaving. Can't be that busy 🤣
Listen teach. Let's stop no point in discussing further.
Manzilla48@reddit
A purely anecdotal statement based on nothing essentially. But there’s no point pointing out something to someone who doesn’t really understand what I’m saying.
Got a full day of teaching then 60 tests to mark? Just manage your time better lol.
wcspaz@reddit
Assuming a 30 minute lunch break (which teachers will laugh at, because they definitely don't get that every day) it's 37.5 hours a week, which is the average for full time contracts. You're just so desperate to talk down teachers that you don't even care if what you're saying is true
TheDanjinSpear@reddit
No I'm just saying compared to a lot of jobs where shifts range from 10-12 hours. A standard 9-5 (basically) isn't that bad a thing.
It seems teachers really struggle with time management and doing their job.
wcspaz@reddit
Boring troll is boring
TheDanjinSpear@reddit
Someone saying something you A don't agree with or B don't like doesn't make them a troll.
37.5 hours a week is a standard work week. There are plenty people who work over and above that in hours and commitment.
wcspaz@reddit
You know, when someone calls me out as a liar, I typically don't double down by telling more lies. You do you though
slainascully@reddit
How can you be so wrong yet so confident?
TheDanjinSpear@reddit
Is that not school hours?
slainascully@reddit
Do you think teachers only do work during school hours??
TheDanjinSpear@reddit
No. I'm saying..the hours they are paid out with the hours that children are there would be an ideal time to do additional work.
ImScaredofCats@reddit
Very few jobs demand unpaid work in the evenings and weekend at home, go and pick another hill to die on.
TheDanjinSpear@reddit
I'm not going to argue with you. There are absolutely loads of jobs that require it. There are people who do it all the time. Teachers aren't heros.
Cypher-V21@reddit
Amazing how your reply highlights the OP question perfectly
any_excuse@reddit
Join a union instead of crying about it then
ImScaredofCats@reddit
You're just one of the usual dickheads who think teachers have a jolly and complain all of the time, you're not worth the effort or the time.
SterlingVoid@reddit
I think you would actually be quite suprised
Hazeri@reddit
And they shouldn't either!
TheDanjinSpear@reddit
Meh, some people like their work.
Hazeri@reddit
Yes, but they should be paid for work
Overworking for no pay only benefits your bosses. Have more value in the work you do!
JazzberryPi@reddit
I'm retraining as a teacher at the moment and I'm studying part time so that's 6 years to study the subject then another to do the teacher training. That's a massive pile of debt and a huge pay cut from my management position that I reached in a similar timeframe via promotions / job hopping. I am in no way doing this for the money, that would be insane.
PickOpposite1201@reddit
My missus earns £52k as a teacher and yes she works a lot of hours in term time, but also has a 13 weeks holiday a year where she mostly doesn't work. She has just finished her 6 week summer holidays and only worked 3 days of them.
doctorocelot@reddit
We are paid for the school holidays. I dunno where this idea has come from but I keep seeing it repeated. I am a teacher I get a salary it's paid to me monthly. I am paid for the school holidays.
alexmate84@reddit
I know a man who is an incredibly experienced electrician, but he teaches at college for the generous pension and because he doesn't want to be on the tools anymore due to getting older. He told me the regular wage is about half what he earned in the industry which is why colleges struggle to find people to teach trades.
I know a few primary school teachers and even if the curriculum doesn't change that much, what people forget is there are always new rules and regulations that need to be learnt like you mentioned safeguarding, social media protection, mental health support - it's pretty much constant training.
Munchies2015@reddit
Yup. Primary school teachers regularly put in 60 hour weeks. Every teacher friend I know already spent a few days to a week actually in their school (unpaid, of course) this holiday.
I was secondary (who report fewer worked hours per week than primary, mind), and I calculated my working year, after hearing comments like this. If I put my equivalent hours into a 9-5, then I would have had 4 weeks annual leave per year. That's 1 week less than the minimum here in the UK. And it's a bloody intense job.
El_Scot@reddit
A lot of professions expect people to work unpaid overtime. It's written in my contract that, where there is a business need, I have a duty to work over and above my hours without additional pay. That has been the norm for my last 3 jobs (engineering). The main difference with teaching is that overtime has become the norm, while in other professions, it's generally only for occasional deadlines.
dozzer85@reddit
They get like 3 months paid off a year...break it down and the pays not bad
D3adlySloth@reddit
They literally dont
dozzer85@reddit
Convince me I'm wrong as I know 3 teachers who get 2 weeks in April, 6 weeks in summer, 2 weeks in October and 2 weeks over Christmas....not to mention all the public holidays.
D3adlySloth@reddit
Ahhaha didn't like being proven wrong so he downvoted me
dozzer85@reddit
Who is this he you proved wrong? Per hour worked a teacher makes about £32 an hour... Give your head a wobble
D3adlySloth@reddit
Convince me I'm wrong as both my sisters and parents are teachers and are given a salary calculated by x amount multiplied by the amount of teaching hours in a year, which is then split between 12 months.
Imagine you had an hourly wage of £8 an hour and you worked for 20 hours in a week. Your shifts might only be two and a half days but if your boss decides to split that pay between the 7 days in a week on paper, you're getting paid every day but you're not getting any additional money for the days you're not working.
Just because a paycheck is being received during non term time doesn't mean they're being payed for that non term time.
dozzer85@reddit
45k a year salary for a 9 months work is a bad deal? What planet are you on.
Your argument has just made it even more convincing they are well paid as they have a salary that's effectively paid for 9 months of actual work that is handily distributed over 12 months....
Hara-Kiri@reddit
Police wages go up to an okay amount, although still not enough for what they deal with, but starting off they are low. When my girlfriend first started many of the newcomers had to rely on food banks.
cjeam@reddit
Very easy to bribe a police officer these days.
And thus the cycle continues.
BronnOP@reddit
At the beginning of COVID, when the selfish elements of the public were scared, I remember people coming into he shop I worked in and saying well done and thank you for stocking the shelves whilst they emptied them faster than I could fill them. People even bought us doughnuts and crisps and gave them to our manager to put in the canteen.
About a month or so later, they were back to complaining that there was a queue, or that they had to wear a mask, or that we weren’t reducing the out of date tat quick enough.
I really was a glimpse into humanity.
Common-Plankton2751@reddit
I really doubt it was the same people buying the donuts who then were complaining?
BronnOP@reddit
In one case, yes, one of the people that grabbed my hand to shake it (during a pandemic) had a meltdown with me like 2 months later. The full 9 yards. Screaming and shouting, asking for the manager, the lot.
Obviously not in every single case, but yes, in some cases the exact same person mere months later.
Common-Plankton2751@reddit
Wow that's crazy. Also sorry you experienced that.
No-Calligrapher-718@reddit
If anything, I feel like it got worse. People forgot how to be actually social due to the lock downs I think.
platoonhippopotamus@reddit
The rebranding of those jobs as key workers was a masterstroke is getting people to realise that society would more or less collapse without them. Even the papers did an about turn.
As you say a couple years later and it's business as usual
Vorkos_@reddit
Teachers' salaries are embarrassing considering their contribution to society. Maybe it's slightly controversial, but I believe the same for the police. The few coppers I know personally regularly tell me stories where they're expected to essentially fill in for the underfunded NHS when dealing with mental health issues. Particularly problematic as they are an institution trained to deal with criminals, not sick people.
TeHNeutral@reddit
It's absolutely true.
Vital to all aspects of the economy.
Take nurses for instance, from a purely financial perspective if they're treating someone who's off work sick they will be getting them back in sooner, lowering sickness in a business and increasing productivity as a result. They're improving adjacent business productivity and getting a £0 thanks.
It's horrible to even look at it from that angle but all around in a wide variety of industries, people are disgustingly underpaid in this country, from retail and all around.
Wages are just crap.
Even rail workers, which people love to complain about even though most get crap pay, have not kept pace since 2008 with union activity helping them to keep up better than many.
To give perspective, a friend of mine recently had a job offer in New York. He's basically getting 1.5x the salary vs London and that's without bonus and benefits, in a highly skilled and high demand role. Insane.
tar-mirime@reddit
This is what people fail to understand about the NHS - and benefits and the idea of a social safety net in general, it benefits the whole of society.
The NHS, by treating ill people keeps people in work. Less effectively now, but that's largely because of political decisions, not least the refusal to seriously address a falling birth rate and aging population.
Hara-Kiri@reddit
Yeah my girlfriend (police) has been first responder to jobs for paramedics before. The trouble is they don't have enough time for their own jobs either.
TheBig_blue@reddit
Whilst police and teachers bring home and above minimum wage, they're not well paid for the amount of risk and actual hours they do.
TeHNeutral@reddit
They're also not well paid for what they contribute to society, both fiscally and to community.
Wages have been shocking here for years.
Not to mention, they all appear to be doing what would have been the work of 5 people just a few years ago.
funnytoenail@reddit
The police and teachers are comparatively well paid but I wouldn’t say they are well paid
Quiet-Rabbit-524@reddit
Plenty of those retail and hospitality staff have degrees too, we just can’t break into our chosen fields because the job market is a mess. So we have to put up with it and just try not to lose hope
livnessmonster@reddit
Don’t forget that there are people who are career retail or hospitality staff with degrees and it is their chosen field. Find it quite offensive on behalf of those people I know when people just assume it’s a stopgap role or a role for people who “couldn’t do better”.
Quiet-Rabbit-524@reddit
Obviously not, I have friends in hospitality who are excellent at their jobs despite the frequent hard times and find great satisfaction in what they do. I’m truly happy for them, but I wasn’t referring to them
alexmate84@reddit
That's pretty much me. My job is fairly stable compared to some and I'm guaranteed a lot of hours. I've worked in retail as well, outside of management or stock control/deliveries/warehouse I can see a lot of it getting phased out in favour of self service.
phatboi23@reddit
then when you do retail still pays more than whatever field your degree is in :/
ienjoyfootbal@reddit
What does having Degree have to do with it?
lawlore@reddit
The implication being that you've studied for several years and gone into debt to gain expertise in a chosen field, only to now be in an entry-level hospitality or retail role.
ienjoyfootbal@reddit
This is about rudeness though, the implication of the comment is people without degrees should be used to it and people with degrees are too good for it.
lawlore@reddit
I think you're reading more judgement into the original comment than is actually there. They don't say anything about people without degrees, only that those with degrees probably have expectations that they would be doing something else for work.
ienjoyfootbal@reddit
Yeah I get that but the comment is literally about people being rude to them, the implication is literally that people without degrees should be used to it and people with degrees should have better jobs where people Aren't rude to them.
There is no other reason to mention degrees here
honkymotherfucker1@reddit
We’re not supposed to lose hope?
Oh.
Plaisteach@reddit
You’re supposed to TRY not to.
peelyon85@reddit
Try and cry :(
saccerzd@reddit
Police and teachers are not well paid at all. UK wages are abysmal
Educationalidiot@reddit
Teachers and police on the ground level of the professions are NOT well paid for what they have to deal with especially in this day and age
LittleBertha@reddit
Teachers pay is terrible for the hours they do. And the shit they take from Parents, Pupils, and Government.
Teachers pay should start at £45-£50k.
nezzzzy@reddit
Teachers barely earn above minimum wage. This post is deluded.
Happy_Chief@reddit
They're paid pretty well. 25k a year to pull pints really isn't underpaid ...
damned-n-doomed@reddit
It’s not just “pulling pints” though.
It’s barely getting to see my mates cause they all work Mon-Fri 9-5, working still stupid o’clock in the morning, getting verbal abuse from customers for things beyond my control (staffing levels making them wait 30 seconds longer to be served, or drinks prices), sexual abuse from drunk old men who think it’s appropriate to grab me and try and kiss me, or take my glasses off my face.
Also 25k? I’m on a 0 hour contract on minimum wage. 25k would be a luxury to me at the minute.
Happy_Chief@reddit
Having done the job, it is just pulling pints.
It's a very low stress job when management is done correctly, which sounds like it isn't given your working conditions. The sexual abuse isn't okay and should be being dealt with by your management.
If you worked a 40 hour week, at minimum wage for over 21 (12.22), that's £25,417 a year.
Thus, 25k a year for pulling pints.
rhyithan@reddit
I have an animation degree. The idea was ti enter and earn well above 60k by my age now. Now im undercutting myself to keep up with ai. Bear in mind animation has become a subsection of what i do to earn my income
HomemadeCatheter@reddit
You were never going to earn 60k in animation unless you’re doing the kind of work AI hasn’t yet replaced
rhyithan@reddit
This was 10+ years ago
SchrodingersCigar@reddit
100%
Happy_Chief@reddit
How does that relate to bar staff earning 25k?
rhyithan@reddit
That if you’re expecting to be earning more than 25k by paying exponentially more as an investment in yourself
alexmate84@reddit
As someone who works in hospitality as a chef you get a lot of people who are stuck in the past when it comes to prices. It sucks, but it's not uncommon for a coffee and a sandwich to come to over £10.
The other one you get a lot is ones where I wonder if they ever leave the house. Ofc some meals take longer than 10 minutes to cook, it even does in McDonald's on occasion. Not to mention the amount of arrogance and ignorance everyone in a customer facing role deals with.
Working-Business-153@reddit
they're pretty much meat shields at this point, management disclaims all responsibility, works at a head office and leaves the powerless front of house staff to take dogs abuse.
Dry_Tour_4877@reddit
I've been in retail for 15 years and trust me since covid at least at my shop we take zero shit if it's unreasonable.
Depends on the manager of course, luckily I am one. If the GP thinks my staff are taking shit over nonsense after making sure entitled people could eat during a pandemic they're in for a shock.
NeilPatrickWarburton@reddit
This! I keep hearing politicians talking about the “dignity of work” and I anytime I hear that I think “what dignity?” so much elitism in public-facing jobs and elsewhere.
SchrodingersCigar@reddit
Is a dentist a public facing job?
SelectTrash@reddit
They deal with people so I assume so
Comrade_pirx@reddit
Just echoing you, but yes, every time I hear a politician talk about the dignity of work, it just makes me feel they've never worked a day in their life
NeilPatrickWarburton@reddit
On the contrary, I think rather ironically they face significant and multiple indignities from the media and public alike.
I guess they’re only referring to the internalised dignity of self-sufficiency, which I get, but I think there’s a need to recognise how unnecessarily degrading so many jobs are because of other people.
Wild-Individual6876@reddit
👏🏻 spot on. Came here to say this
Fuzzy-Gear1965@reddit
Anything in health and social care really even doctors are slowly loosing respect
Wobbly_Hedgehog@reddit
Paramedics.
Aside from the assaults, verbal abuse, and misuse of our service there's also the fact we only get our actual title when the general public or the media deem is worthy.
We're "ambulance drivers" if we ask for a pay rise or better conditions or are delayed to your call because of circumstances that are out of our control.
We become "paramedics" again when we resuscitate your child.
EarlyProphet@reddit
I think the whole NHS has a lack of respect at the moment, simply because of all the silly strikes certain ‘doctors’ are having.
XihuanNi-6784@reddit
Lol. Do you realise what you've just said? I need you to really stop and think about the wider implications of pouring scorn on people who are asking for pay restoration. You can argue all you want about this, but at the end of the day there is nothing keeping those people in the NHS as doctors if there is no upside for them. Being a doctor is hard. Much harder than most jobs that pay the same. It's shift work at ungodly hours. You're on your feet all the time.
The pay used to be the upside alongside doing a public service. Now that's mostly gone. Down 30% in about 10 years for junior doctors. The public service bit is also shaky as cuts mean you're delivering more with less. The job is beginning to get impossible. You can talk all you want about consultant pay, but these people are all smart and have extremely marketable skills. They will either leave the country to work in places like Australia (anecdotally, I know at least 2 medical professionals who've done this), or retrain to do something that pays the same/better with better hours and conditions. So it's up to you really. You can pour scorn on the strikes and you can watch them leave, or you can actually take them seriously and recognise that the world has changed and being a doctor on 30k waiting another 10 years to make consultant isn't something people are going to entertain anymore. Do you think the NHS will get better or worse when they start leaving?
EarlyProphet@reddit
Firstly - your post is very attacking. I didn’t say I have lost respect for the NHS - I think people MAY have lost respect due to the said ‘Doctors’ being all over the media, striking for higher salaries. Let’s not beat about the bush - it is most definitely for higher salaries.
Being a Doctor is hard - sure it is and they are paid for this and go through years of education for THEIR chosen profession. Let’s be honest - they are fully aware of the job they are going into, due to the length of education and work it takes. If they didn’t do research about shift work, salary and all that you mention, then that’s their fault - simple.
Secondly - no one is indispensable.
Let’s be real here. Our taxes pay for the NHS. Like it or not, this isn’t some ‘free’ service’ that the UK is ‘lucky’ to have. We all pay for it, we are all taxed to the hilt, we all want £80k p/a jobs but it’s not realistic is it.
FloydEGag@reddit
Yes of course they’re fully aware, but that doesn’t mean they can be treated like shit. This attitude that people in caring professions (not just doctors - I’ve seen it aimed at nurses, social workers and charity staff among others) are doing it just for the love of it, and that should be enough reward, is bizarre. Yes, in many cases it’s a vocation, but people need to be able to afford to live!
EarlyProphet@reddit
Who says they are doing it for love of it? I personally take my hat off to EVERYONE in the NHS - it’s an admirable job that I would not like to do. This doesn’t take away from the fact that they go through years of education (in most cases) to do what they do. Surely they must have done some research as to what the salary and/or shifts are before actually qualifying?
FloydEGag@reddit
Of course they have, and they know it’s hard and exhausting - in fact everyone knows! - that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be treated and compensated fairly. In many cases they are doing it for love of the job and a wish to help people, but that isn’t a reason to pay badly because you (generic you, not you personally) think they should be happy with the job satisfaction.
You don’t have to accept being treated or paid badly; you can organise to improve your conditions, and that includes striking. And healthcare workers generally don’t strike at the drop of a hat, so when they do you know something’s wrong.
EarlyProphet@reddit
I take on board what you say and I mean no malice towards you or anyone working for the NHS (I reiterate that I respect them). What I don’t agree with, is the striking action. Working for the NHS puts you in a position of great responsibility and whilst that may justify a good salary, this should be researched before someone takes the role.
When people’s lives are at stake, striking should not even be an option. Similar to the current laws around Police Officers striking.
My original comment stands that whilst I still respect people that work for the NHS, it has been marred by the strikes.
steveabcd1234@reddit
I think this shows a fundamental misunderstanding of how our training works and how long the process actually is.
You talk about 'doing research'. Let's talk through my process. I decided I wanted to do medicine in school, as most doctors do. I picked my A levels and committed to starting to grind a CV to get the job I wanted at this point. That was in 2009. I started university in 2012 and finished in 2019. I have been practicing continuously doing 50 hour weeks and working on intensive care through COVID.
I am currently an anaesthetic doctor and will likely complete my training to be a consultant in 2032. At present I owe £102,000. I graduated with £82,000 student debt.
I would happily take the purchasing power that medicine achieved in 2009, when I started my 20+ year training path at the time I 'did my research'.
The other key point that people fail to understand is that we are captive. Once most NHS roles qualify from university they are able to work where they like and if a job doesn't suit them, they can apply somewhere else.
I am in a 4 year program, where I have little or no control over where I work. If I don't like it, I can drop out and abandon my training, making all my work so far, worthless. I can't train anywhere else, the NHS has a monopoly on training, so until I'm a consultant I have to move every 6 months, sometimes hundreds of miles to a to new hospital that a deanery manager assigns to me, until I'm a consultant.
Last year I paid £1500 for exams that are mandatory for my progression, whilst fighting to get time off to even be able to sit them, This is on top of indemnity, professional fees, college membership fees, etc. etc.
The NHS exploits all it's staff, but it has managed to make doctors in training totally captive in a way that is unique amongst other staff roles.
Finally, you make a point about being responsible for people's lives. I'm very aware of this and take it very seriously. In a sensible world, that would mean you would want to pay me a better hourly rate than a joiner.
If you wake up to water dripping through your ceiling at 2am this Sunday and you call an emergency plumber, you won't quibble with them charging a £100-£200 call out fee, followed by a £100 hourly rate for their work
If you get pulled out of a car crash at 2am on a Sunday, you will arrive in ED, where it is my job, along with my talented colleagues in resus, to stabilize you, intubate you, rush you to theatre and keep you alive through whatever surgery is needed. This will typically take a few hours. My pay for these 3-4 hours will not even reach the £100 call out fee for the plumber.
Wobbly_Hedgehog@reddit
If you ever think the doctor's strikes are asking for too much, consider that on a bank holiday, due to the contracts junior doctors are on, they are the lowest paid individuals in A&E.
We Paramedics, Nurses, HCAs and porters will all get enhancements (often double time) where as the junior docs get none.
So if you become severely unwell on a bank holiday Monday, the person wheeling you between departments will be getting paid more than the qualified doctor who will be handling the majority of your treatment. It's wild.
Power to them, hopefully it will set a precedent for the rest of the healthcare industry.
EarlyProphet@reddit
I don’t understand - did they/you not realise the NHS job was 24/7, 365?
Wobbly_Hedgehog@reddit
Junior Doctors are currently striking for pay restoration and to improve general working conditions, you called this "silly".
I provided an example of a way in which doctors are treated unfairly compared to their colleagues.
It's not that they didn't realise the job they were going into, but choosing any profession (let alone one where the main goal is to help people) which has unfair conditions is not a reason to not try to enact change for the better.
And the whole "I pay my taxes so I pay your wages" is not a vibe so we won't even go there.
EarlyProphet@reddit
What you’re referring to is the lack of pay rise vs inflation. Welcome to the real world….
FloydEGag@reddit
The ‘doctors’ you refer to with quote marks are, in fact, actual doctors with medical degrees and everything. And it’s a hard, stressful, sometimes traumatic job with long hard hours, especially early in your career, plus you’re expected to do training and development often in your own time, if you have any.
I’m not a doctor (there is no way I could handle the hours, the stress or the people for a start) but several of my friends and acquaintances are and early career residency (what used to be called a junior doctor) is fucking tough and, like many jobs, is not paid enough
EarlyProphet@reddit
Refer to my other post. I’m not wasting my time again
theNixher@reddit
This isn't true for me, you guys are absolute heroes and have personally saved my life twice! Nothing but respect.
insatiable__greed@reddit
To be honest, as a member of the general public, I can’t remember anyone ever using the term “ambulance driver”.
Is it perhaps a term that is used within the NHS? Or during pay negotiations?
Boundlesswisdom-71@reddit
I'm sure the term ambulance driver was more common in the 60s and 70s. I don't think the idea of Paramedics was even a thing back then.
insatiable__greed@reddit
Ah, perhaps the older people in charge of salary decisions who are using the term “Ambulance driver” then.
XihuanNi-6784@reddit
In fairness, that last bit sounds like tabloid media spin. I don't know any real person who refers to ambulance drivers as a profession.
LondonParamedic@reddit
It’s not just tabloid media, it’s our patients, it’s hospital staff sometimes too.
Yes, we drive ambulances, but that’s only a small part of our responsibilities. It usually an innocuous statement, many people think we only drive patients to hospital, and their previous interactions with ambulance could have been a non-emergency patient transport service, driving people from hospital to care homes for example.
neverawake8008@reddit
Just start using fire truck driver/cop car driver.
I’ll NEVER forget an on nurse, preparing for transport, being floored that we have oxygen in the ambulance.
The most professional person on the service (not me) said “why yes, 21% throughout”.
She was good w that as the pt was a nc 🤦🏻♀️
The hospital was debating w requiring ride along shifts for nurses from certain areas of the hospital.
Would it help or would the nurses end up on the once in a blue moon shift that wasn’t a shit show.
That one nurse landed all the nurses getting a basic inservice.
Full shifts were still voluntary and encouraged but the basic, elementary school tour became mandatory.
Mavericks7@reddit
I used to work in the urgent care team, we were encouraged to do similar and it's really eye opening
Wobbly_Hedgehog@reddit
I don't really understand what you mean, are you trying to say that you don't consider the paramedic role as a profession? Or that no-one refers to us as ambulance drivers?
Paramedics are a recognised profession, have a protected title and are regulated by the HCPC, and I am regularly called an ambulance driver by patients - they even hit me with a "Cheers drive" when we get to hospital like they would with a taxi and (not as often as a few years ago) referred to an ambulance driver in the media.
januscanary@reddit
"Cheers drive"
Found the WAST employee, lol
iTAMEi@reddit
Last time I was actually in an ambulance the parademic was telling me he’d been doing it 40 years and was called they were just called ambulance drivers then so maybe it’s an old fashioned thing
Mavericks7@reddit
When I was a teenager I thought, I'm never going to be a doctor or anything like that, but I want to save lives, so I decided to look into becoming a paramedic, after hearing and seeing a few stories. Scarred me for life.
beaky_teef@reddit
It absolutely blows my mind.
Genuinely kings amongst men (or women)
AutoPanda1096@reddit
Yes and then some.
My sister was a paramedic before taking on a more senior role and the things she went through.
The shifts. The responsibility. Being the one who has to step and deal with situations that the rest of us would walk away from. The abuse. The outreach into community.
They deserve endless respect (and more money too..)
noir_lord@reddit
I’ve had multiple interactions with paramedics over the years, mentally ill parent and then my physical health.
Not once have they ever been less than amazing, absolutely a profession I still respect from my own experience.
Been able to do a job like that and keep both humanity and humour is a god damn superpower.
MaximumAd6557@reddit
Journalism. Good journalism is a public service. Politicians and all people in powerful positions should be scrutinised.
bored_toronto@reddit
Sadly it's now mostly nepo kids and the privately-educated. Good job it's dying on its arse.
Nfjz26@reddit
It’s full of nepo and wealthy kids BECAUSE it’s dying. No one without income can afford to be a journalist as it requires doing a tonne of low or unpaid work experience and then you are stuck with a high pressure/long hours job with low pay.
SpinningHedgehog311@reddit
True, but you forgot to mention the private school kids also never go in on the ground floor. You won't see them working as reporters or copyeditors on insultingly low salaries while they hope and pray for a promotion. Most of them don't even have NCTJs. They come straight out of Oxbridge and into editorial fast track programmes, assistant roles, production, broadcasting, or they know someone who knows someone who can get them a column. The rest of us fight for scraps while they drift to the top. It's an embarrassing state of affairs and it's what's demoralising good journalists to the point of quitting the profession. More than half the journalists in this country are privately educated, despite coming from just 7% of the population.
volodymyroquai@reddit
Having worked in a newsroom...
...gone are the days where somebody with a lot of background experience, in whatever it is they're writing about (trade, diplomacy, tech, health etc...), later transferring into reporting-on and writing about what they love. Newsrooms don't want these people.
They now want people with journalism degrees. Seems logical, you obviously need to write well. But when your only craft is putting together a nice headline and intro lede, then it's no wonder the substance inside the article has been lacking of late.
Douglesfield_@reddit
They kind of did it to themselves though.
EchoLawrence5@reddit
Civil servants.
I'm not crying about it, I'm not exactly a teacher or paramedic. But it does get to you when politicians/media portray all of us as overpaid Whitehall policy graduates whose only job is to block everything that would fix the country.
Your average civil servant is more likely to be a work coach on ~£26k in Carlisle. And our job is to carry out government policy regardless of our own opinions - we do what we can within the system we work in, same as everyone else.
Famous_Obligation959@reddit
most of us dont really understand what you guys do and why so many people are employed as civil servants
EchoLawrence5@reddit
That's understandable. And 'civil servant' jobs can be anything from project manager to work coach to beekeeper (I'm not joking, that has been a job role).
We do a lot to keep the state going, and having a professional civil service which is impartial politically is crucial.
And when young people are wondering what they should do after school, they could do a lot worse than the civil service. We need young people coming in, we have some excellent apprenticeship programmes.
BlondBitch91@reddit
I’m a Whitehall policy person - Reminding politicians that actions have consequences, and what the fallout of callously running in headfirst could be, is not “blocking everything that would fix the country”.
Also, I’ve known it many times where it’s civil servants who suggest the actions to rectify a situation. Policy is generally “coming up with ideas, working out if they’ll work or not, and putting them into action”. Ministers decide what they want to happen, and we suggest the ways of getting there.
EchoLawrence5@reddit
I know, I didn't say I agree with the perception (I certainly don't, I work with some excellent policy people). Merely that that is the perception.
Vorkos_@reddit
For some people, I think they're genuinely just salty about the pension. However, I steadfastly maintain that the pension is the only thing that makes the civil service jobs worthwhile. Unless, of course, you're a top top top tier high flier, and you've got the chance of a knighthood, and that's something that remotely interests you.
The civil service should also be commended as the reason we have world-class transitions of power between governments. They really are the backbone of our political system.
Guiseppe_Martini@reddit
Teachers
Police officers
Priest/Vicar/Minister of religion
Engineers
padro789@reddit
Bumhole engineers need more recognition
Guiseppe_Martini@reddit
Transit van engineers with Parkside hoodies
Happy_Chief@reddit
Engineers!
That kid from BT installing your Internet is not an engineer! The guy installing your boiler is not an engineer!
Thank got chartered engineer is a protected title, cause christ, I met a "Client Solutions Engineer" who called themselves an engineer - they arranged collection of furniture for a charity from donors...
lostrandomdude@reddit
Thank you. I've been saying the same thing for years.
I studied aerospace engineering, and people seem to think I fix planes. That's a mechanic, not an engineer
noir_lord@reddit
I’m a programmer, I call myself a programmer, I’m not software engineer my field does not approach the rigour or process of engineering (outside of certain sub fields, aerospace software been one of them, embedded medical another).
Before I was a programmer I trained as an industrial electrician working with actual engineers so I value the word engineer.
Signing off on something to say “If Ive fucked up, people will/could die” is a very different thing.
abw@reddit
Fair enough. I'm a software engineer. I have a BEng degree in Software Engineering and was formerly a member of the IEEE.
I don't really care about titles. Call me a programmer, developer or bit monkey if you prefer. But in the past I've had people ("real" engineers) ranting at me saying I'm not an engineer. Sorry, but I am and have the qualifications to prove it.
If people don't think there should be Software Engineering degrees (which are quite different to Computer Science degrees) then that's up to them, but they should take that up with the universities that grant them, not me. If you have an engineering degree then it's reasonable to say that you're an engineer.
Chartered Engineer is a different kettle of fish altogether (along with Incorporated Engineer and other protected titles). It's 100% correct that it's a protected term. But most job titles are bollocks anyway. "Engineer", "facilitator", "executive", "assistant", etc., are all fancy words that get added to job titles to make them sound better than they are. You really can't blame people for using words from the English language to describe what they do.
The Engineering Council agrees:
No-Strike-4560@reddit
Same. My BSc was in SE , and there is a very big misunderstanding about what SE's do. It's not just writing code FFS.
flowering_sun_star@reddit
There's engineers who design bridges, and there's an engineer who designed your TV remote. Nobody's going to die if the latter fucks up. But there's probably a lot more people designing relatively inconsequential products than there are bridges and cars.
There's software engineers who design critical medical software (insert mandatory Therac reference). And there's people who design websites. As well as a wide swath in between. Some of which certainly has impact on the world. I was once sat next to a colleague as he pressed the final button that pushed out a dodgy release - it knocked two 911 call centres offline.
So yeah - what we do is engineering. It's just in a very different domain with very different constraints and trade offs from mechanical engineering. We don't need to worry about the load-bearing capacity of concrete. But we might need to consider what happens if a hot instance dies and a cascade knocks out the others in turn..
MultiMidden@reddit
It's unlikely that anyone would die as the result of a TV remote, but there other undesireable things that could happen which is why there is a need for professionalism. Simple example is you botch the design of the remote and it just eats batteries, no one dies but it is environmentally undesirable or could cause reputational damage "if Wong-Kee Industries televisions have bad remotes what else is wrong with them?".
pretendingtowrite@reddit
The same is true with software though. There are plenty of things that could go wrong that are non-fatal but still have a massive negative impact.
key-bored-warrior@reddit
Full Stack Software engineer is just thrown about by people who only know how to make a Todo list they learned on their 6 week boot camp which to me is what cheapened the use of engineer in software engineering. I think if you have been in the game for a long time building complex applications then you have more right to use it than someone who has been at it 6 months.
El_Scot@reddit
I'll be honest, I've yet to meet a mechanical engineer that's worried about the load bearing capacity of concrete either.
onemanandhishat@reddit
You can become a chartered engineer in ICT as well, but it's not just "my job title is software engineer" it's a process set out by the BCS in conjunction with the Engineering Council. So it is a thing with standards, but not every programmer is an engineer.
Vorkos_@reddit
I do call myself a software engineer and have always been very proud of that title. However, I've never really considered myself on the same level as "true" engineers.
centzon400@reddit
👋Hi!
I used to admin Solaris boxen back in the day, and then transitioned into providing ad hoc solutions for our university community. Very interesting; lots of Perl, some C, and there's a chunk of my half-arsed crap still around.
Engineered it is most certainly not!
JDoE_Strip-Wrestling@reddit
What exactly is the difference between "a mechanic" vs "an engineer" then...?? 🤔🤷♂️
naynaeve@reddit
A mechanic fix things that an engineer design.
JDoE_Strip-Wrestling@reddit
How much "new designing" is there to actually do though :: That requires 40-hours per week?? 🤔🤔🤷♂️
The bloke who designed the computer / TV / mobile-phone = Fair enough
However those things now all exist.
But so what exactly is all this new "designing" that engineers are still doing... When the core product already exists?? 🤷♂️
(Genuine question)
SeparateEmu3159@reddit
You're being downvoted because you seem to think that new engineering is redundant because inventions have already happened.
Even ignoring the point made by my slightly sarcastic other response about continuing to develop and innovate existing products, your response implies that everything has been invented already and there is nothing new to design.
naynaeve@reddit
All the new designing is refining things to a better standard. A computer is way more powerful than what it was 20 years ago. They are faster, smarter, prettier, lighter, less power hungry. The first computer was humongous which could do basic things. the processors now a days are way more powerful yet so small. Right now They are trying to making it so powerful that they are calling it quantum computers. So in short they are constantly developing and refining towards its full potential.
Energia91@reddit
Imagine you're a company making TVS
There are many other companies making TVs. All around the world.
Your competitor managed to reduce the cost of making TVs by half. While simultaneously improving its quality. They did this by investing in R&D, which is usually done by engineers, usually with advanced degrees (Master's, PhDs).
Why would anyone buy your TV, which is more expensive but far inferior to a competitor's product? You'd be driven off the market.
A technician/mechanic's job is to actually make the TVs. Which is not an easy task. But it requires a different set of skillsets than trained professional engineers. But they're trained to do a single job. And that job can be easily replaced by a robot.
For very high-tech industries like jet engines, or semiconductors, you'll need very high academic qualifications to even work in the production department.
SeparateEmu3159@reddit
If we stopped new design engineering once something was invented we'd still need a warehouse to store a computer that can barely do simple arithmetic, have TVs the size of an American style fridge freezer, and mobile phones that require a suitcase to transport.
0nce-Was-N0t@reddit
I work in industrial instrumentation. The amount of engineering that goes into replacing an old process with new parts is insane... let alone designing a new factory or oil rig.
Need to build a bridge, mine for materials, make a tunnel, build a more efficient engine, improve the speed of your phone, inventing air fryers and making them safe for domestic use, make sure your house is sturdy, ensuring that a nuclear power plant doesn't explode... etc... An engineer will be behind the calculations, design, safety and all of that back end stuff.
Puzzleheaded_Name_72@reddit
There’s different types of engineering. You can be a civil, architectural or structural engineer for instance. In those cases, you would be applying your expertise onto new projects. For instance, a civil engineer could be designing a new irrigation system one week and a new sewage system next week.
OdBlow@reddit
I’m a civil engineer who specialises in highways design. When we’re not designing new roads and all the systems that go into that, we’re looking at how to improve existing methods or materials. So for example, someone in my team has looked at how we could use laminated wood in place of concrete. I’ve looked at how we can retrofit existing highways to fix issues they’ve caused. Or water treatment engineers are in a constant battle to try and solve issues with superbugs by finding new ways to treat water. I’ve also had a look at how to drain water in a way that creates energy for people abroad. It’s all building on initial concepts and using them as starting blocks to fix issues we face today.
Engineer is a protected term in a lot of countries but not the UK. It also covers a lot of different specialisations from electrical stuff like your computer to the building you went to go and pick it up from.
flippertyflip@reddit
I used to work in power infrastructure. Every installation or modification is bespoke to the site/situation. So you're designing that.
It's largely picking and choosing bits of kit. You can often recycle bits of work as a result. But you've got to make sure it all works together safely. I'm obviously simplifying it massively. But mainly because lots of if is really boring.
So you're still designing something but you're not exactly inventing anything.
TAOMCM@reddit
Take for example bmw. They have engineers that develop new models for years before they are released.
Blyd@reddit
There are places where the terms mean the same thing, where 'fixing' something requires an entire new process to be designed or part made or you just have to rebuild the whole thing again.
BiscuitBarrel179@reddit
If a mechanic was to design something it would be easy to take apart and put back together. If an engineer was to try and fix what they designed they would want to tear their own hair out.
flowering_sun_star@reddit
If a mechanic could design such a thing, they would be an engineer, almost by definition.
LightningGeek@reddit
[You should familiarise yourself with Part 66, because licensed aircraft maintenance engineers are a thing, and they do fix aircraft.]https://www.caa.co.uk/commercial-industry/aircraft/airworthiness/engineer-licences/uk-part-66/apply-for-a-uk-part-66-aircraft-maintenance-licence/)
I believe it's also a legally protected title as you need to prove to the CAA that you have sat the required exams as well as proving the minimum experience levels. And that's just for your basic license, you will still need a type rating on the aircraft family you work on before you are legally allowed to sign off jobs.
Happy_Chief@reddit
Mechanic? You mean spanner solutions engineer, right?
Erewash@reddit
Jesus, that takes me back. My work experience at school was at a garage. The owner, a grumpy old sod, told me: "They say we're automotive repair technicians now. Doesn't matter though. It's still fuckin' spanners."
DrachenDad@reddit
When I was doing work experience at the bus depot mechanics and technicians were different things. Technicians did diagnostics and MOTs, whereas mechanics did the parts replenishment and repair, then there were the coach builders.
verity-only2064@reddit
Technically your correct
Level 2 qual or no qual but experienced: fitter/ mechanic (says as description fits parts etc)
Level 3: technician (completing diags, irregular faults more complex jobs etc)
highrouleur@reddit
Been in the bus industry 30 years as a coachmaker.
Level 2 would be classed as semi skilled, a mechanic
Level 3 is skilled, a fitter
Level 4 is technician
Going back to years ago before I started a mechanic would remove a part, give it to the fitter to repair and then the mechanic would reinstall it
Level 3 was always a craftsman, so sparky, fitter or coachmaker
The level 4 technician role is pretty
Reviewingremy@reddit
Screwdriver monkey
shadowhunter742@reddit
More like torque applications engineer
Corsodylfresh@reddit
There's mechanics and engineers fixing planes, most are mechanics but it's certified by a licensed aircraft engineer (in Europe anyway, they have different standards in the US)
Huffers1010@reddit
For what it's worth, I know someone with an aerospace engineering degree who actually does fix planes (well, helicopters), but that's largely because the UK isn't really a great place to seek employment in the making-things trade. Or any other trade, right now, but you know.
zwifter11@reddit
It would be incorrect to say all aeronautical mechanics are bad / low skilled while all engineers are good.
According to you I must be a mechanic. But I’ve seen some appalling designs where access to components were shockingly bad. I’ve often shaked my head and thought what an utter stupid place to put a bolt / electrical connector, we can hardly get to it. The design engineer really didn’t factor in ease of maintenance.
My favourite designs were engine oil replenishment points that were upside down and located next to where you’d burn your hand. I often wondered why didn’t they locate the engine oil filler caps so you’re accessing them from above.
lostrandomdude@reddit
I didn't say that all mechanics are bad/low skilled and all engineers are good. I've come across absolutely useless engineers and mechanics that could strip and reassemble a jet engine without having seen it before.
My point is that engineers and mechanics are completely different and have different skill sets. To conflate the two is a disservice to both
MaryMaryQuite-@reddit
Exactly! My Dad was a Chartered Marine Engineer, his job was as a Chief Engineer on a cargo ship.
So if the cargo ship with 40,000 tons of bananas that could go off, broke down in the middle of the Atlantic, they fixed it. Making parts for the engines in the workshop aboard the ship!
greggery@reddit
I'm a chartered civil engineer. Nobody has a bloody clue what that is.
Erewash@reddit
Having paid an absolute fortune for the education and memberships... I think it ought to be a protected title like a doctor. No master's as a minimum, no 'engineer' title.
idontdrinkcowjuice@reddit
Doctor isn't a protected title in the UK either.
greggery@reddit
This is something that always irks me about chiropractors, that they get to call themselves Dr Quackbackcracker but with no qualifications, academic or otherwise, to justify it. They get away with it as long as they don't claim to be a medical doctor because otherwise they'd be in all kinds of trouble.
grimm_the_opiner@reddit
"My chiropractor is great, I've been going for 20 years." "And you're still not better..!?"
Mesa_Dad@reddit
Dentists are the same. They may have completed a BSc to qualify as a dentist, but they only have an honorary "doctor" title. At least medical doctors have done a lot more training if they get that title through the honorary route
flippertyflip@reddit
You know there are other routes than higher education?
Maybe less so now but lots of chartered engineers won't have masters.
Chartership doesn't require it.
greggery@reddit
Indeed, the ICE are extremely keen on people pursuing routes to chartership via experiential learning and the like these days.
Adventure_Tortoise@reddit
In my experience that’s BS, they’re pretty hostile to us with the exception of one guy who left, I gave up with the ICE and went with another who were far more helpful.
greggery@reddit
That is just your experience though. Everyone I've encountered at the ICE has always been very supportive of people going that route, if nothing else because it's so new and they want case studies to demonstrate its value.
Adventure_Tortoise@reddit
Oh totally, I’m sure some people think it’s great, but if the ICE want my time and money they probably shouldn’t start their technical report route video with such a sour tone about ‘inferior academic qualifications’, it gave of a lot of old timer gate keeping vibes. Meanwhile civil engineering pay sucks and it’s still really hard to recruit into the industry.
greggery@reddit
Couldn't agree more!
mynaneisjustguy@reddit
I mean, I am an engineer. But I mostly work as a spanner monkey: can I sit down and design stuff? Sure. Do I understand the forces? Sure.
I studied mechanical engineering. And marine construction. But I wouldn't claim to be a marine engineer. Different thing.
Erewash@reddit
Yes, I work with a guy who's chartered without one. Also have a friend who has never bothered going down the chartered route at all—never needed it.
TheBuoyancyOfWater@reddit
I've been an engineer for over 12 years now, never gone down the chartered route because various workplaces weren't helpful in getting set up. I have a masters degree and a postgraduate degree so I don't feel the need to get chartered.
If a future employer offered it I'd go for it, but I'm not seeking it out.
flippertyflip@reddit
Out of interest are you named (Reddit name) after the valley?
Erewash@reddit
Well, that and the river. Used to have it flowing past my house.
flippertyflip@reddit
I'm not too far. Used to catch an erewash bus.
flippertyflip@reddit
Although I think Erewash Travel has been defunct for about 30 odd years now.
gash_dits_wafu@reddit
Yeah I got my masters years after I got my chartership. I had to demonstrate other learning and experience, obviously, but not specifically a Masters.
Vorkos_@reddit
I'm a software engineer, and in my career, I've not come across many non-masters level engineers and even fewer non-degree engineers.
That being said, there's an engineer in my company who is a proper boot camper, without any further education in software engineer or programming, and she's one of the most talented people I've ever met.
How you do the job is what matters, not the path that got you there.
JavaRuby2000@reddit
BIL is an Engineer rail side. His only educational qualifications are City & Guilds in welding then a few on the job certificates.
El_Scot@reddit
I don't think it should be necessary to have a masters to allow yourself to be called "engineer", a bachelors in the subject should be fine. I've worked with plenty BEng engineers more capable than most, they just couldn't dedicate the extra year at uni.
LowFIyingMissile@reddit
This has been doing my tits in for years, I’m an actual engineer and often think I don’t deserve to be truly classed as an engineer.
These other people are just taking the piss and entirely undermining the title.
bellu_mbriano@reddit
Omg as an Italian immigrant this does my head in. I remember when I was fresh off the boat someone told me they'd send an engineer to fix my boiler, and I thought omg what, an engineer?! I quickly realised my idea of qj ingegnere did not match the lay English idea of an engineer
Racing_Fox@reddit
Honestly it’s a joke that ‘engineer’ isn’t a protected title here. Trying to find a job is actually impossible, you search for engineer and get hundreds of results. A handful will be actual engineering roles the rest are glorified technician or programming roles
It’ll forever annoy me
Ihavecakewantsome@reddit
You can do better. I am an engineer but my job title doesn't even mention engineering, despite needing to be an engineer for it (Engineer is actually Analyst)
We really could do with formalising ourselves!
ehlrojo@reddit
This is what I encountered when looking for a job. Most of them are actually technician roles.
Racing_Fox@reddit
Honestly I spent as much time sifting through unsuitable jobs as I did applying for them
Im an engineering postgrad, I’m not looking to install people’s WiFi routers lol
Happy_Chief@reddit
It gets easier once you're chartered and can make that part of your search terms!
Racing_Fox@reddit
That’s a good point, my issue is getting the experience to get chartered lol, both my undergrad and postgrad were accredited so literally all I need to be chartered is the work experience
WiggyDiggyPoo@reddit
I am friends with Chartered Engineers, they are very proud of it and rightly so.
ZonedV2@reddit
What’s your thoughts on the title software engineer?
Happy_Chief@reddit
It's bollocks. They're programmers/developers with a little bit of project management.
Glittering-Sink9930@reddit
I'm a software engineer. The term doesn't in any way imply project management.
A developer is someone who just makes something that works. A software engineer is someone who makes something that it lasts a long time, works with everything else around it, and can be built upon in the future. Exactly the same as any other type of engineer.
redish6@reddit
I agree but there is no accreditation or official professional standards for Software Engineering.
It falls under the definition of devaluing that profession IMO.
Glittering-Sink9930@reddit
That just isn't true.
spindoctor13@reddit
I am pretty sure it's true, there is no professional standard for software engineer, it's not a professional job in that sense. Source: I am a developer/software engineer.
Glittering-Sink9930@reddit
There are loads of them.
spindoctor13@reddit
I think they meant like professional bodies - actual rules around being able to call yourself a computer engineer. Which there aren't. There are loads of certificates etc, but you can also get certificates in crystal healing so that doesn't really make a profession
Almost_Sentient@reddit
Computer engineers in my experience are electronics engineers, so we are members of the IET. We did some more software at uni and a bit less three phase, but 90% of the degree is the same. Computer engineers design computers, software engineers and programmers then drive them. Pretty sure it's called driving.
redish6@reddit
What’s stopping anyone from calling themselves a software engineer?
key-bored-warrior@reddit
Nothing but as I posted in another reply but it’s the amount of inexperienced devs calling themselves full stack software engineers that cheapens it
redish6@reddit
Yes I guess that’s what I was referring to.
I know it’s long been discussed but an official creditation that needs renewing every few years would be massively beneficial in professionalising the field.
JavaRuby2000@reddit
There actually is and there is Chartered Status. Only thing is its pointless getting it as nobody uses them tor would expect you to have Chartered Status. The only people I know who are Chartered Software Engineers work in Academia.
Cypher211@reddit
It depends on the seniority tbf. I would say architecting solutions falls under engineering.
callisstaa@reddit
But would it fall under architecture?
capGpriv@reddit
Having got a MEng and worked in both controls engineering and software engineering, software engineering is fair and accurate. And actually I regard the software engineering Ive seen to be more proper engineering than most engineers I’ve seen in industry.
A lot of the engineers who dislike it underestimate what is involve in good software. They imagine it’s like the basic scripting you barely learn at uni, so there is a major mismatch in expectations.
Writing code is a bit like doing the cad model or design drawings in mech eng, without the model you aren’t getting a product. But the real work is everything that surrounds and informs the model.
True software engineering is talking to a customer, developing requirements, designing a plan that is flexible, cost effective and reliable, while meeting customer expectations. Then developing and iterating the design based upon testing. And an absolute ton of investigation into why parts are not behaving as expected.
TomA0912@reddit
I’m not chartered, no degree. I install, troubleshoot shoot, test, inspect, commission and maintain a multitude of equipment at power plants and materials factories? Does that meet your standard of what an engineer is or does making stuff actually work not count?
Happy_Chief@reddit
No it doesn't, nor does it meet the engineering councils definition of engineer.
You're a technician. There's nothing wrong with that.
TempUser9097@reddit
I'm an electrical engineer, and I design audio equipment for musicians.
The number of "audio engineers" I've talked to who think "we are the same" is fucking insulting.
No; adjusting an EQ and knowing which microphone to use to record a vocalist is not the same as a master's degree in electrical engineering.
WompinWompa@reddit
I got my degree in BSC Sound Engineering.
Does that make me an engineer? Because What I do for a job now with that engineering degree is adjust EQ, Select the right microphone
I learnt the science behind what I do, I built fuzz pedals and modulation units. But I use none of that now and yet I still refer to myself as a Sound Engineer. Because the other person I work with is very much the producer.
Happy_Chief@reddit
Yeah, it's the line between technician and engineer that's blurred.
I'm sure audio "engineering" is a technical job, but it doesn't require the level of competency of real engineers.
E-Step@reddit
My mate works for Open Reach and 100% agrees with you, he finds it a very silly job title.
Happy_Chief@reddit
Probably because.you mate has the brains to become an actual engineer if he had the motivation to do so.
The ones that get pissy about how they're actually an engineer, are the ones who couldn't ever do it properly.
terryjuicelawson@reddit
A post about professions that aren't respected, and someone installing the internet is a mere "kid from BT"...
Mavericks7@reddit
Came across a services engineer, "thought oh wow a peer?" Nope it's a customer services call agent.
MrSpaghettios5000@reddit
Ughhh my grandfather once called the people from the council who were coming to clean out the drain outside of his house “engineers”
Happy_Chief@reddit
Yeah, drain flow engineers, obviously
charliechin@reddit
I think it’s an uk thing? In Spain are called technicians
Happy_Chief@reddit
Yes, because in Spain Engineer is a protected title.
7Thommo7@reddit
This annoys me. When looking for jobs you see posts for engineers and when you open the advert it's clearly a maintenance technician. Such a time waster.
0800happydude@reddit
Haha this used to drive my Dad mad as he was a civil engineer and had gone through some effort to get charted.
"The guy who comes to fix the office printer or the coffee machine is not an engineer, he is a technician."
Happy_Chief@reddit
Your Dad is right, please buy him a pint and tell him he's every right to be annoyed.
greggery@reddit
As a fellow civil engineer who has also put in some considerable effort to get chartered, I completely agree with your dad.
ghostofkilgore@reddit
The latest is "prompt engineer"
Happy_Chief@reddit
Don't get me fucking started.
They write little sentences to make a bit of software work. Arseholes.
20127010603170562316@reddit
Our boiler was faulty, and the landlord was being tight. He sent a couple of different "plumbers" in (who made things worse). Instead of just getting a new boiler, he found a proper "boiler and heating engineer" company.
It was a father and son team, and they basically had the boiler in bits before figuring out the problem. Took them a couple of days, and apparently only charged £600 according to the handyman.
Was still cheaper than a new boiler I suppose. I don't think he paid the plumbers.
Happy_Chief@reddit
Yeah, they do a great job, but they're not engineers. They don't design the equipment, they're not part of the pricing and management of a boiler.
They're installers, they're troubleshooter, that makes them technicians.
Vorkos_@reddit
I've definitely noticed a shift in people specifying their branch of engineering rather than simply describing themselves as "engineer". It's like for this reason, a lot of people will know that electrical, mechanical, civil, etc. engineers are "real engineers."
That being said, I'm a software engineer, which does still carry some weight. However, I've never truly considered myself in the same class as those engineers I've mentioned above.
Happy_Chief@reddit
Oh yeah, 100%
I've started saying I'm a discipline chartered engineer, since it drives home thst I'm not a technician/installer with an overblown title.
AutoPanda1096@reddit
Ok but I have a lot of respect for the guy who installs my boiler. I wouldn't mess with gas.
Happy_Chief@reddit
I 100% agree that my boiler installer/plumber deserves respect. Fucking around with gas is a no-no.
Doesn't make them an engineer.
BeersTeddy@reddit
As someone from abroad where engineer title is reserved for a proper educated engineers I say this is messed up.
Those you've mentioned are just installers and should be called that way.
MooMoo2319@reddit
I arrange the van for the charity I work for - the thought of calling myself an "engineer" in any sense is ridiculous!! Talk about over inflated job titles.
Livinglifeform@reddit
As a hobbyist social media response engineer, I completely disagree with your viewpoint.
LANdShark31@reddit
Some elements of this I agree with like your examples, and the “Sky engineer”, the washing machine engineer etc
I myself have been a Network Engineer and am now a Network architect, so I get to piss two groups of people off.
I built and how design global networks for large enterprises and now public sector organisations, none of you with your engineering degrees can do what I do and I can’t do what you do, similarly if we were both to learn each others skill set to the same levels it would probably take about the same time.
So whilst engineer is over used to equate it to a degree at all, let alone very specific degrees is just gatekeeping. There are other disciplines that require just as much or more study that are equally worthy of the title.
-XeneidoN-@reddit
I think Network Wizard would be perfect.
manamara1@reddit
Wait till you meet a software architect
Happy_Chief@reddit
You mean a programming nerd!
Silly-Marionberry332@reddit
yeah 100% a lot of titles should be protected
thenextdegringolade@reddit
All of them - none of us truly care what others do.
SpinMeADog@reddit
it all comes from the top. taking bus drivers as an example, they're given lacking pay, worse conditions, buses not being maintained properly, all things that affect their ability to serve the public. then when you consider all that culminating in strikes that can remove the service almost entirely, the general public gets angry at the service, and the drivers are used as a scapegoat. similar things across all sorts of customer-facing roles. that's the real "trickle-down" that we get today
Plot-3A@reddit
Police officer.
Souldestroyer_Reborn@reddit
To be fair, it’s kinda their own fault.
RobLikesDinosaurs@reddit
I’m surprised this wasn’t higher up, as it was the first one that came to mind.
My dad would always talk about how, growing up in a village in the 50s, you may get caught getting up to mischief by the local policeman and brought home by the ear, but you respected him too.
mortstheonlyboyineed@reddit
Even in the 90s in a mid sized city, we knew our local Policemen. The job doesn't even exist in the same way any more.
Spiderinahumansuit@reddit
One thing they do in China (yes, yes, I know) is that businesses and community hubs all have a poster up with a picture of the local police officer and their mobile number for non-emergency issues. I always that that was a good idea if implemented correctly, to foster engagement with people.
James188@reddit
Yeah that should be a really good idea.
The culture is wrong here in the uk though. They make the job so frustrating, that you do two years in a neighbourhood role, then get so pissed off with it that you have to go do something else.
There’s too much changing of roles for this to work here.
mortstheonlyboyineed@reddit
I actually like this idea.
One_Lobster_7454@reddit
Great idea but our police simply do not have the funding in most areas.
MingePies@reddit
Grew up in a rural village and our local policeman was fantastic. Everyone knew him and spoke highly of him. Was never particularly troublesome as a kid but got into usual mischief and he’d deal with it in a very polite and respectful way. I guess it made me grow up respecting the police rather than fearing them or treating them like shit. He was the local Bobby for years until he retired. Lovely bloke.
Munchkinpea@reddit
Apparently the day after we moved into the village where I grew up the local policeman came to introduce himself.
I'm part of a blended family and he made arrangements to visit when my older siblings came home so that he could meet everyone in the household. I was just a baby so don't remember meeting him, but grew up knowing him as a family friend.
On weekends he would pop into the pubs and social club for a lime and soda, he would attend all village events, would be at funerals for villagers, and was often invited to larger family events (weddings, big birthday celebrations, etc).
He lived in the police house in the middle of the village which remained empty for many years after he retired, and is now a Tesco Express.
BoomalakkaWee@reddit
Respected or feared? My mum also grew up in a village in the 1950s - where the kids referred to the stout local policeman, PC Atkinson, as "Fatty Atty"...but never to his face, for fear of a swift clip around the ear.
TempUser9097@reddit
That's what happens when you gives someone a job to do, but take away all the tools they need to do that job effectively. Police can arrest you, gather all the evidence of the crime, fill out all the paperwork, hand it off on a silver platter to CPS... who promptly let the guy walk as they refuse to prosecute. Now that person is back on the street, mocking the officers who are powerless to stop him.
Same with teachers, tbh - you take away their ability to discipline the class and they're just a punching bag for twisted tweens with learning disabilities.
Titian_Red@reddit
“Hand it off on a silver platter to the CPS”. Nope. Most police officers are semi literate tattooed yobs and are incapable of using the most rudimentary IT tools they are given. As for the ‘evidence’ they provide, frequently so poor as to be useless. Source: friend is a prosecutor. Her stories are both hilarious and depressing. Even if you can get the attention of the police they are unlikely to be able to help because they are to a large extent completely inept. Mind you, make a joke on twitter and watch the armed militia spring into action!
Mavericks7@reddit
And a lot of people don't know who or what the CPS is so they will blame the police.
Hara-Kiri@reddit
And the police get the blame from the public who have no insight into CPS.
Definitely_Human01@reddit
Which ability exactly are you referring to that was taken away?
AFAIK teachers and schools can still give detentions, suspensions and expulsions as well as confiscate devices.
I have a suspicion I know which "ability" you're referring to, but I'd like you to clarify in case I'm wrong.
calschmidt@reddit
It's nigh on impossible to expel a student as the school has responsibility to ensure the child is being educated. Similarly with suspensions, having high levels of exclusions and permanent exclusions can trigger Ofsted inspections etc.
As for detentions, the number of parents who ring up and say "well I don't think they dod anything wrong so they won't be serving that detention" is higher than you know. You can't force children to stay
Alana_Piranha@reddit
That's a paddlin'
aardvarkarmour@reddit
No luck catching them swans then?
myotheraccountisa911@reddit
probably all that arresting people for wrongthink while letting industrial noncery go on.
Tibetan-Rufus@reddit
I don’t think Wayne couzens and his serial rapist Co-worker are deserved any respect no
Hara-Kiri@reddit
This is a green and pleasant user, no point engaging with the lost cause.
ProgrammerEconomy503@reddit
Makes sense
Short-Price1621@reddit
I am unsure as to why you’re being downvoted.
Do these downvoters believe Wayne Couzen is innocent or has been unfairly tried?
It’s a rather clear case and to make such a bland statement about it in this context doesn’t really strike any nerves unless the downvoters have some unhealthy relationship with the police where they feel even the mention of an absolute monster in the context of the police should be prohibited.
KreativeHawk@reddit
I’m no fan of the police, but we don’t pretend all doctors are serial killers because of Harold Shipman do we?
Calm-Passenger7334@reddit
Nutty tankies do because it fits their misguided narrative.
CommercialTop9070@reddit
I’m sure someone in your professional has also done something terrible.
couriersnemesis@reddit
Do you believe all 115,000 constables are rapists?
ATSOAS87@reddit
F the police, but this is a bit over the top to be honest.
I'm sure there are people who do the same job you do who have raped, or done something else fucked up.
TableSignificant341@reddit
Can't respect someone you don't trust.
Careless-Cow-1695@reddit
Sorry but until the polic force sorts its shit out it will never be respected. I haven't lived in a place with a clean police force yet. They're all awful.
Punished__Allegri@reddit
They’ve been strike breaking bastards since their inception
greggery@reddit
I didn't think the police were allowed to strike though?
shameful_conduct@reddit
Could you please provide an example within the last decade of the police breaking a strike?
Brand-Spanking-New-@reddit
Being a supremely successful businessman, because everyone understands you have to exploit someone or be immoral to earn billions.
hsw77@reddit
Having met a fair few of them in my line of work, got to be law firms. With a few exceptions they're on a par with degenerate used car salespeople.
Spiderinahumansuit@reddit
The old days of how law firms were run are virtually over, is the issue. The firm I trained at was a decent-sized high street firm: we had good client relationships, did a variety of services, and had partners in the traditional sense. If everyone had done their urgent work, we'd sack work off early on a Friday and go to the pub (or the partners would go off and play golf, while I, the lowly trainee, manned the phones) where the older, richer members of the firm would buy drinks for the secretaries and junior lawyers. It was awesome.
But firms have consolidated and corporatised. I now work for a private equity-owned claims factory (that is, it just does personal injury in all its incarnations) where the CEO isn't a lawyer, and wouldn't know me from Adam. We have partners, but no-one can explain to me what that actually means besides being a popular kids' club, because it doesn't change their job or get them a stake in the company. Billing targets are relentless, whereas previously the conversations would've been more like, "How's your billing this month? Not great? Well, keep plugging away, we can't really expect Mrs Higgins to pay on time, everyone knows that."
RetaliatoryLawyer@reddit
Couldn't have described it better myself.
KezzaJones@reddit
Sounds like you work at a very shit firm not gonna lie.
1llraytheking@reddit
Postie
jayjones35@reddit
Fruit and veg shops, remember them
Expert-Let-238@reddit
What a dumb job to have respect for, all they do is drive.
Theo_Cherry@reddit (OP)
Really, SMH!
Expert-Let-238@reddit
For the mass to have respect for a job role it needs to clearly portray a set of skills that most folk couldn’t imagine gaining or having themselves.
grimm_the_opiner@reddit
Police. And as an institution, deservedly so.
Theo_Cherry@reddit (OP)
Agreed!
Mafeking-Parade@reddit
Teachers.
Back in the 70s a teacher earned broadly the same as a GP. Now, the disparity is huge.
Teaching is regarded so poorly that it's needed government schemes to coax young people into the career.
Teaching was once a vocation, that young people chose and studied specifically for. Now it tends to attract people who have realised that studying sociology at a former polytechnic wasn't going to get them into any other career.
HugoChavezRamboIII@reddit
I agree broadly, but I think casual teaching has always been a popular thing to do. Stephen Fry did after school, I know my dad did also.
Mafeking-Parade@reddit
It was a popular thing to do because it paid relatively well for very little actual qualification.
These days the entry level salary is less than half what a GP earns.
Emergency_Piece3809@reddit
Been to London once and got on the bus once. Loved the experience, but WOW! Big respect to the bus drivers and attendants!
One_Lobster_7454@reddit
Vicars have definitely lost the status they used to have in the community.
furiousdonkey@reddit
Probably all the noncing
AnyAlps3363@reddit
When I saw this, I was angry at first. Then I remembered my school's priest was caught for noncing and had to be replaced. So maybe about 1/4 of them are nonces. Fair do's.
eairy@reddit
Observation bias. The rate in the clergy is lower than the general population. It's just probably a lot more noticeable and newsworthy when it's clergy.
AnyAlps3363@reddit
Not observation bias, small sample size. I've had 4 school priests and one of them was an outed pedophile. They tried to sweep it under the rug at first but eventually had to explain to our parents why our Confirmation was delayed.
dontdeltamedude@reddit
Same thing happened at my school, basically.
AutoPanda1096@reddit
Let's up it to 2/4 then!!
GiantT-Rex@reddit
That’s more a Roman Catholic thing.
onemanandhishat@reddit
It's a works-with-children thing. Catholic priests get the most fame, but it is an issue in every setting religious and secular where adults are able to work in isolation with children. Child protection regulations are much stricter now to guard against that kind of thing, but it's not just churches, it's schools and other organisations as well.
pitmyshants69@reddit
It is everywhere but I think the catholics are most infamous because of the way they reacted to the nonces, by trying to cover it up and moving them around to be nonces elsewhere rather than reporting them go the police. Then later, when it became overwhelmingly obvious what they'd been doing, moving money around to avoid paying out to their victims.
DorisWildthyme@reddit
I think with the Catholics it doesn't help that they force their priests to be celibate, so when they did start noncing it was treated as an "oh dear, whoopsie, you had a little slip there. Never mind, say three Hail Marys and two Hello Dollies and God will let you off".
rumade@reddit
There's more stuff put in place to stop that nowadays. My mum is a safeguarding officer who works with churches to help prevent abuse of vulnerable people.
PipBin@reddit
But I think that in the past vicars played more of a role in the community. More people went to church so they knew the vicar. In the village I grew up in even the non church goers knew the local vicar and he would often pop in with village fete information and that kind of jazz. The vicar lived in the community and was known to all.
However falling church attendance has meant that one vicar is now covering a large number of parishes and doesn’t have that local connection anymore.
I work for the Church of England, in a round about way, and I’ve noticed that the people who become vicars is now changing. In the past it was all men, as we know, but mostly men who had joined at a young age. Now it is mainly women, and a lot of those women who are having a second career or have become ordained later in life after having children etc.
eairy@reddit
This is also parallel to death of the "local community" as well. Lots of places don't really have much of a community anymore.
iusehimtohuntmoose@reddit
It wasn’t even that long ago. When I was a kid I had meningitis that put me in hospital for a prolonged stay. Apparently it was touch and go for a little while, so mum was on a proper bedside vigil.
The vicar from our village came to ‘watch over’, offer some prayers etc. which gave mum chance to go and get something to eat. On the days she wouldn’t/couldn’t go, the vicar brought her some lunch to the ward.
This was the 90s. People talk about the village vicar like it’s a relic from the good old days of the 50s or 60s, but it really wasn’t that long ago. So much has changed in that time.
We had the same vicar for both mine and my brother’s christenings (12 years apart), he also did my mum’s wedding to my step dad. Unfortunately he’d retired by the time we had our next church-based event (grandparent’s funerals).
One_Lobster_7454@reddit
I remember this kind of attitude during my childhood as late as the mid 2000s, when the vicar turned up to school everyone behaved, we didn't need to be told. When he came round as part of a dinner party circuit thing in our village the house was scrubbed clean all day in preparation. We aren't even religious!
Rosekernow@reddit
Early 2000s, our local vicar was there on the scene when the foot and mouth crisis happened. He was standing at farms while the cattle were shot so the farmers and staff weren’t entirely alone, organising meals to be sent to the farmers and helping put people in touch with national support.
Still a long time ago now but it was good to see the church doing something practical.
Far_Stranger_3148@reddit
The 90s is definitely long ago now.. my children refer to it as the olden days 😭
onemanandhishat@reddit
Sadly, it is. 1995 was 30 years ago. Star Wars felt like it came out ages ago when I watched the The Phantom Menace as an 11-year-old, but the time gap from now to the release of the TPM is now about the same as from TPM to Star Wars.
alexmate84@reddit
I'm a similar sort of age and I still do the same thing a lot of people do: "oh yeah, 20 years ago 1995". I'm not a star wars fan, but the hype for that was never replicated with star wars film since, they also re-released episode 4 in 1997 for cinema.
Unhappy_Spell_9907@reddit
They are there even today if you want them to be. I recently had a miscarriage. The local vicar who performed my wedding ceremony has been very supportive. Because I lost my baby quite early, we haven't had a funeral. The vicar said some prayers and sat with us.
I've previously had a termination for medical reasons and the vicar prayed with me for that baby too. No judgement. No telling me how evil I was. Just compassion and a recognition for the baby I didn't get to bring home. It was lovely and very healing.
CommercialAd2154@reddit
I was raised a Catholic in the 00s, so I wouldn’t have gone to a C of E church, but the local vicar has become pretty invisible, I wouldn’t have had a Scooby Doo who the local vicar would have been when I was a kid (and nor would anyone else I knew)
religionisanger@reddit
Yeah I think the focus changed a long time ago. CofE noticed they were getting less and less people and so the focus changed to be a supportive community rather than old fashioned and religion focussed.
The church near me is absolutely amazing. Run by a lady who often wears a peach/pink dog tag to match her dungarees. She’s brought in live music (VERY good live music), fund raising (last week the band did an iron maiden tribute) snd charity (they often take donations and provide to charities). First time I went she invited my family (basically strangers) to her house for an evening meal. When my daughter went for communion she whispered to her (it’s not really Jesus, just tastes like card). It’s got a lovely and calm “hippy” vibe and is fuck all like church I remember 30 years ago. She once asked people what they appreciated about Jesus and she said: “those abs and hair are pretty cool right?” Then she said: “for me I love the fact Jesus is so forgiving, I think I’d be stuck if he wasn’t”. When the music plays she sort of shuts her eyes and sways or moves her arms left and right. Something sincere and vulnerable and honest there, love it..
Really sort of honest, not boring or dull. She pulls people in; provides very basic pseudo therapy if they have problems. I feel like I could easily swear or get angry or silly and she’d accept it. This is exactly how church should be, focus on community first, individuals second and religion last. Appreciate people, support them and maybe their faith will grow in time. Don’t scare the shit out of them or bore them to death.
MojoMomma76@reddit
I work with the United Reformed Church and see the same shifts
ok2888@reddit
My local vicar told me he doesn't believe in God and never has, only doing it for the accommodation. Solid guy though does his job well.
Acrobatic-Pudding-87@reddit
This is actually not uncommon. Vicars who have lost their faith aren’t qualified for much else and so end up trapped in the job, pretending to still believe so they don’t end up homeless and unemployed.
TheHornyGoth@reddit
Vicars fall into 3 categories
Those who know it’s BS and are doing it for the house and pay
Those who know it’s BS and are doing it for access to your kids
Those who know it’s BS and are doing it as a community service.
DependsOnYourOutlook@reddit
So have pedos across many jobs. Football coaches, scout leaders, etc
yerunclejamba@reddit
Not in Dibley
One_Lobster_7454@reddit
To be fair that show ended 25 years ago🤣
yerunclejamba@reddit
Had to look that up and audibly gasped.
I'm off to get my pipe and slippers
West_Yorkshire@reddit
That's because religion is finally starting to die out
One_Lobster_7454@reddit
That and also we live in much more fractured communities, my village 60 years ago would have basically been 30 or so interconnected families who all knew each other and alot of the time were related and have been living in the area forever. They knew the vicar, the milkmen, the butcher etc because in a lot of cases they were one of their own. Now life is just different and communities aren't as tight so the hierarchy of communities is removed
surecameraman@reddit
Christianity is. The other religions, not so much.
essexboy1976@reddit
Well that's understandable. People have seen through the bullshit that is religion generally, plus there's probably been a bit of side wash from the child abuse scandal in the catholic church.
One_Lobster_7454@reddit
Even to non religious people even when I was a kid as late as the early 2000s, the vicar coming into school meant we were on best behavior without having to be told, they had gravitas which I just dont think exist now
DarthEros@reddit
My local vicar is extremely active in the community and is in turn well known. He’s a rare breed nowadays it seems. He is young and energetic, that probably helps.
AutoPanda1096@reddit
Active is he? Rare breed? Young and energetic?
Say no more wink wink nudge nudge
insatiable__greed@reddit
Rightly so
EvenMathematician874@reddit
Unless you are the vicar from Romford!!! Ifykyk
Any-Web-3347@reddit
Bus drivers are treated with respect around here. Most people say thank you as they get off, and I’ve never seen anyone be abusive. That said, buses stop at 7pm, so less people under the influence on them.
popsand@reddit
In all honesty, i've seen/heard more disrespect FROM bus drivers than the other way around.
KiwiJean@reddit
Yeah as a wheelchair user unfortunately I've had some bus drivers get extremely annoyed that they have to get out and deploy the ramp for me.
TheHornyGoth@reddit
It’s not you.
It’s the fact that we know that because the office, in their infinite wisdom, usually by some muppet who doesn’t even have a car license, has set the timetable based on running at 1 in the morning, doing the right thing and helping you on board (and off!) will mean we’re running late and will almost certainly get a bollocking over the phone for running late by the people who are responsible for making sure we actually have enough f**king time to do our jobs properly…. WHICH INCLUDES BOARDING PEOPLE IN WHEELCHAIRS
Sorry, pet peeve of mine. Would always get a call from control because of late running with a wheelchair user. Entirely their fault, not yours.
KiwiJean@reddit
No I understand that, and am very on the side of bus drivers. I live in an area with lots of elderly people who often need help so I'm sure management are being shitty to the drivers for being late all the time. It is hard not to take it personally though, but I know it must stress the drivers out.
Vorkos_@reddit
That's shitty. Maybe I'm a dreamer, but I believe people should should be grateful for the opportunity to help someone who wouldn't be able to get around otherwise. It's simple humanity.
DINO_S0RE@reddit
I’m a bus driver and I like picking up wheelchair users. I enjoy the extra bit of human interaction and the opportunity to get some fresh air lol
TheHornyGoth@reddit
Our pay is anything but respectful
greenfence12@reddit
Train drivers, the media has turned people against them with people thinking it's a high salary for something that can pretty much drive itself. The media/elites probably worry what can be achieved in terms of salary when you actually have a decent trade union.
Train driving is, I imagine, a difficult job where you have to work in all conditions at all hours and you have the responsibility of hundreds of people getting to their destination safely multiple times a day...they deserve their salaries and should have more respect in society.
Anxious-Lime-829@reddit
My friend's husband is a train driver and I hadn't realised how much goes into the training. For example, they have to know an about stopping distances in various conditions and speeds. I came away from that conversation with a new level of respect for them.
TheHornyGoth@reddit
Train drivers get paid far more than bus drivers when all they do is go back and forth.
Bus drivers, they have to turn AND deal with the general public, and the pay is hardly more than minimum wage outside of London.
And then, god help you if you’re an unfortunate enough driver to end up at slavecoach….
Bathhouse-Barry@reddit
It’s the insert professions fault. It couldn’t possibly be the government or the company’s owners fault.
Silly-Marionberry332@reddit
technology has made it significantly easier than 40-50 year ago
eww1991@reddit
Got to know a train driver over a few mutual friends' weddings and he said this has made it a significantly harder job in a significant way. He told me you have to be constantly aware of what's happening on account of you know, being responsible for hundreds of people at a time and a £20 million machine that will obliterate anything it hits, even rolling into a station.
He said older trains used to require constant attention to acceleration, grip etc, whereas the new ones (Greater Anglia) do significantly more themselves and now it's a difficult task of constantly paying attention whilst being incredibly bored.
Driving the same route days in days out is going to make it easy to mentally drift off. Think how easily people get distracted while driving, now remove a lot of the tasks that you have to keep doing to stay focused on the road. It takes a lot of mental will to keep focused for as long as they do, given the consequences of things go wrong.
Also jumpers, they all still face having to deal with very messy suicides.
Internet-Dick-Joke@reddit
Some of this sounds comparable to air traffic control, specifically in regard to having to pay close attention to a lot of information with hundreds if not thousands of lives at stake if you screw up. Except that air traffic controllers are supposed to take a break every 90 minutes, and aren't supposed to do more than an 8 hour shift, and also have one of the highest suicide rates of any career, with an extremely high entry requirement into the career.
greenfence12@reddit
How?
Silly-Marionberry332@reddit
Then: Drivers relied heavily on signals, manual braking, and their own vigilance. “Passing a red” was one of the biggest risks.
Now:
Automatic Train Protection (ATP) / Positive Train Control (PTC): If a driver misses a signal or overspeeds, the train intervenes and brakes itself.
Deadman pedals/handles evolved into Driver Vigilance Devices, monitoring not just physical input but also activity to prevent fatigue-related accidents.
Crash energy management and modern cab design keep crews safer in collisions.
Computerized throttle and braking: Smooth acceleration and deceleration, better fuel/energy efficiency.
Automatic Train Operation (ATO): On metros (e.g., London Underground, Paris, Singapore), drivers may only supervise. Heavy freight is also experimenting with semi-autonomous or driverless ops.
Remote diagnostics: Trains continuously report their health, reducing breakdown surprises and giving drivers more predictable control.
Then: Fixed block signaling (track divided into segments, only one train per block). Drivers constantly looked out for signals.
Now:
Cab signaling & in-cab displays: Drivers see signal info inside the cab, not just trackside.
ERTMS/ETCS (Europe) or CBTC (metros): Continuous digital communication allows trains to run closer together, increasing capacity and reliability.
Centralized traffic control systems: Dispatchers have real-time visibility of trains, reducing conflicts and delays.
Digital dashboards: Replaced mechanical gauges, giving real-time info on traction, braking effort, faults, and energy use.
Ergonomic cabs: Air conditioning, better seats, reduced noise and vibration — makes long shifts less fatiguing.
Training: High-fidelity simulators allow drivers to practice emergency scenarios safely.
Regenerative braking: Returns electricity to the grid or reuses it onboard (a huge leap from the old friction brakes).
Driver advisory systems: Give real-time “eco-driving” instructions (optimal speed profiles, coasting opportunities).
Hybrid / alternative fuels: Hydrogen and battery-electric systems are emerging, changing how drivers manage power.
Radio & digital comms: From hand signals and landline phones at stations → to secure digital radio links with dispatch.
Real-time passenger info: Drivers are no longer the only source of updates; systems automatically inform passengers of delays and connections.
any_excuse@reddit
Nobody wants to read your ai generated essay
pandahunter@reddit
The irony of using technology to defend a trade made less respected by technology
Douglesfield_@reddit
So you pretended to know what you're talking about and then had to run to AI when challenged?
Have a fucking word with yourself.
FloydEGag@reddit
You might want to tell ChatGPT not all of those apply to all trains or railways, look at some of the trains on Northern Rail, or the Bakerloo line…
Strange-Tea7949@reddit
What's the need to point out they used ChatGPT when people have no issue linking what they find via a Google search? At least with ChatGPT it does the hard work for you and is typically accurate for these types of questions.
You've commented about a few older trains and lines but the person is correct, train safety and automation has improved across the board compared to decades ago.
Those driving the latest trains make the same as those driving the oldest.
Silly-Marionberry332@reddit
not all of it is going to apply to every train or railway but some parts have became industry standard
Evening-Web-3038@reddit
And here's a downvote that was *so nearly* an upvote lol
Silly-Marionberry332@reddit
to ignore how much technology has changed the world in the last 50 years is why I didn't bother writing an answer for you my self
shameful_conduct@reddit
Mate ask anyone who worked for BR in the 80s, they got away with so much shite that just wouldn't fly today, driving a train while pissed was effectively fine as long as you weren't visibly drunk.
Know someone who caused a slam door to get riped off against a signal post due to error and officially it never happened. A driver running a red resulted in a bolocking from the signaller and that was it.
Glittering-Sink9930@reddit
What is difficult about it?
As I understand it, it's piss easy, and they go on strike whenever changes are proposed which would make it safer and easier.
greenfence12@reddit
What is piss easy about it?
Glittering-Sink9930@reddit
They don't even have to steer.
Scrimge122@reddit
They sit in a cab and drive something on rails. What's not easy about that?
dospc@reddit
Bus drivers also work all hours and have people's safety in their hands. As do nurses, and loads of other professions.
Train drivers are just a closed shop because you need training on the railway (which isn't that hard but you can only get it from one place).
They definitely don't deserve their salaries, come on.
They do deserve respect, though.
FloydEGag@reddit
I think if other jobs had unions which were as effective as train drivers’ ones, the train drivers’ wages would be seen as fairly average as everyone would get paid what they’re worth. Of course prices would all shoot up to match 🙄
skelly890@reddit
Or some extremely wealthy people might not be able to afford to run their second yacht.
popsand@reddit
Respectfully disagree. It's not a hard job anymore.
mhoulden@reddit
There are certain places trying to demonise the RNLI. They're the charity that saves lives at sea, regardless of who they are. I make a point of donating when I see one of their collection boxes. I also added a donation when I bought a couple of things from the Scarborough lifeboat station shop a couple of weeks ago.
insatiable__greed@reddit
Why would anyone try to demonise the RNLI?
Scrimge122@reddit
Certain types of people get upset that they don't leave refugees to drown.
Sharks_and_Bones@reddit
Yes, I saw a video on one of their social media pages of them rescuing refugees. So many comments from people saying they would never donate money to the RNLI again, that those people didn't deserve UK resources being spent on them and some that said they deserved to drown.
gourmetjellybeans@reddit
I don't think those people were donating to charity in the first place so nothing lost 🙄
Sharks_and_Bones@reddit
I don't doubt it.
Nemisis_the_2nd@reddit
Because they rescue immigrants in the channel when they need rescue.
Tarmacsurfer@reddit
That's truly depressing. Every time I think we've sunk as low as we can go some fucker manages to claw their way deeper.
insatiable__greed@reddit
Not something I’d thought about before.
Seems to be the coastguard is the one asking RNLI to do the rescues.
I suppose the RNLI could refuse if they wanted to, but that goes against their mission.
Even if the RNLI refused, the coastguard would just ask another organisation.
phatboi23@reddit
yup, i'll always get a magnet or something from RNLI shop when passing one.
they'd have zero issue going out in absolutely fucking diabolical weather to help someone in need so me chucking a few quid down for a magnet and probably the change out of whatever note i used is nothing.
saigonstowaway@reddit
Yep, I always stick a few pounds into their collection boxes if I see one and ditto for the local air ambulance.
surecameraman@reddit
GP in many cases. Stereotypes include:
mehmenmike@reddit
I don’t take issue with GPs or any other medical profession. I take issue with the individuals who make it their mission to fuck me off as soon as they see my face. I’m nothing but polite and so many are unabashedly rude and very, very clearly want me gone as soon as I arrive.
AutomaticInitiative@reddit
If you're a woman full stop, it's either anxiety or that losing weight will fix your migraines, intensely painful periods, and thyroid insufficiency. This isn't from media perception but interacting with GPs in particular (rest of the NHS is generally fine).
Annual_History_796@reddit
I bet you're not allowed to tell people that their obesity is the cause of a lot of their issues, either?
Low_Variation_377@reddit
Don’t forget the tabloid perspective - overpaid, impossible to see and refusing to work antisocial hours for the convenience of others who don’t work antisocial hours.
Soggy_Amoeba9334@reddit
Scientists
Isgortio@reddit
Were they ever respected? People got killed for being scientists fairly regularly in the past.
RainbowDissent@reddit
When were people ever "fairly regularly" killed for being scientists in the past in this country?
Isgortio@reddit
Back when any woman that could read was a witch, or anyone that suggested things like the earth wasn't flat, the earth revolved around the sun, and suggesting washing your hands to prevent infection was a terrible idea. Sadly a lot of this isn't that far in the past.
leftrightside54@reddit
Teachers
EstablishmentReal156@reddit
Politicians and police both filthy rotten scoundrels.
Crimson__Fox@reddit
Every profession that has a stagnant wage
TheHornyGoth@reddit
So anyone who isn’t a tech bro, finance wanker or MP?
JohnCasey3306@reddit
Teachers
Chocolate_Kettle@reddit
Royal Mail Posties :( ever worsening working conditions, terrible pay and the company seems to run itself to the ground as a business rather than a service. The outcome is worse for staff and customers alike.
DarkVoidize@reddit
that’s a shame to hear cos i’d actually love to be a postie
Sgt_major_dodgy@reddit
Being a postie is shite mate.
It's one of those jobs people think they'd like because they like walking and fresh air but the reality is you're constantly rushing, constantly dodging dogs and their shit in people's gardens, dealing with miserable customers (and even more miserable posties in the depot) carrying heavy mail and bending at awkward angles opening gates or posting letters as well as tons of fucking junk mail flyers.
New starters are on 30hr contracts and if you're incredibly lucky you'll get given a walk but it'll most likely be a shit one nobody else wants but more likely you'll be a spare covering walks with nobody on so you'll be bouncing around dealing with walks with sometimes 2-3 days mail in or getting sent to other depots to help.
I'd love to leave and do something else but I'm basically stuck here as I finish before 3 most days so can pick our daughter up from school.
There's also a major shakeup to the way RM works coming and it'll make the job even shitter.
surreyade@reddit
My mates been a postie for years, I couldn’t do it. He’s got a town centre round, so he’s pounding staircases all day. I reckon he could run a half marathon without breaking a sweat.
Hercules_23@reddit
100% he’d smash a half marathon and wouldn’t even think about it next day! I did that daily on my old round - 4.5hrs ish but that includes driving/moving the van, waiting for people to answer and at walking pace.
flippertyflip@reddit
How heavy is the bag?
red_chin_chompa@reddit
Weight limit for the satchels is about 16kg, but many people overload or even bring two bags at once since it means less trips back to the van and thus getting your walk done faster.
Royal mail themselves provide several choices of footwear, they're pretty decent but a lot of people choose to wear their own shoes or boots. I've had a pair of RM shoes for about a year and a half and they're only just starting to fall apart, so they can withstand pretty heavy wear and tear.
I wear shorts all year round, in winter I wear thermals underneath. You can get very sweaty and/or rain soaked during the day, so shorts dry faster and don't cling to you as much when damp.
Necessary_Doubt_9762@reddit
My husband used to be a postie and said he always wore shorts because it was easier to dry his legs in wet weather than it was to have wet trousers for the day!
flippertyflip@reddit
'Skin is waterproof'
But surely your socks are soaking?
LegoMaster52@reddit
You can’t really avoid wet feet but it’s not something you noticed as much as wet trousers
LauraPa1mer@reddit
I'm saving this for the next time I romanticize delivering mail. I've always wanted that job but not as much now.
saccerzd@reddit
I applied for it recently - and got the job - but turned it down after reading more on the reality. Plus it sounds like changes coming in soon are going to make it even worse. And you don't get two consecutive days off each week, so you can't do weekends away etc.
cornedbeef101@reddit
Idk. As a customer, I’ve never had a problem. The posties I’ve known have all been friendly. Maybe I’m just lucky. Privatising RM was a scam though. Osbourne and co should have been held to account.
One_Lobster_7454@reddit
There was no reason to privatise it, even in end stage capitalism usa the postal service isn't privatised. Its an aid for business and the economy, privatising it just adds a layer of profit that the consumer ends up paying for
ProtonHyrax99@reddit
Yeah, I had an uncle who was a postie. Loved his job for the most part, but said it started to go downhill significantly after the 2013 privatisation.
One_Lobster_7454@reddit
It really looked like a vocation until that point, they seemed to be given some anonymity aswell, ours used to sign for parcels if he knew the people etc and just be generally accommodating and friendly, we always gave a Christmas tip. Everyone knew the local postie. Now it seems it's not much difference than working for evri, DHL or any other delivery service.
Barziboy@reddit
Same story with my uncle.
PuzzleheadedAd822@reddit
I know it isn't any consolation but I definitely respect posties. It's an absolutely essential service that we need to fight for just like the NHS. And my postie is an incredibly lovely bloke.
anchoredwunderlust@reddit
Honestly, similar goes for Post Office. Of course the respect levels have always been a bit different - long queues and female-led, often non-white staff… but like most customer-facing jobs it’s become worse, and when it was sold off it meant less hours, less pay and all that. It’s effectively separated newer workers from the CWU as well.
Like banking, they tend to want a certain type of responsible person but where they used to pay good wages for that, you’re basically on minimum wage now. I’ve had people come in before who assume that you have a nice comfortable job when they’re yelling at you, and of course a lot of people think you’re a “professional” who can sign their ID forms. But basically it’s glorified retail with a lot more responsibility.
Despite that the job has only got harder. Less regular post, but a lot more independent businesses sending hundreds of parcels. Passport check and send, online passports, driving licences, international drivers licences, currency exchange, business banking. And of course since the banks have all shut that aspect has trebled and lot of regular people do their banking at post office. Some have set up Amazon post, and for those you have to actually wrap the package.
The company only pays enough hours to have 2-3 people work in a day, and most of them won’t be in all day. One all day, one morning, one evening. So probably only one person there when the other is at lunch, or taking the post down. Many people queuing for the post office only need a minute. But a lot of these processes take 15+ minutes. A short queue could last an hour and a long queue could be 5 mins. Not all of them have a drop-off option.
They often only give 12-20 hour contracts like most retailers on the high street. There is some expectations for people to work overtime - however, their demand for trustworthy responsible employees who are willing to live off a 12-20 hour contract means that they largely hire mums who are supporting a full-time husband. Ergo, the kids come first, little Shabnam gets picked up from school at 3, and her sister has piano lessons, and Rosa has a newborn and can’t do mornings or stay late because it’s feeding time.
Naturally like retail they don’t want you to clock in/out too far from your official times, and your work hours are the same as store opening hours. No extra time for cleaning or cash ups. But the cash ups can take up to 15 mins. All these big cash transactions since the bank closed can take much longer. So you’ll see them close the bureau at 4:30 to do that cash, and often cash ups their tills before closing. And closing is only a little after most people finish work, so that’s a lot of unhappy people.
And then all this frustration means that angry people are looking for reasons to get angrier at you. You’re in a shop but can’t sell them the deals. They think that people taking the post down or doing office work “aren’t working” and “should be helping on till coz it’s busy”, as if there would be any point to customers coming in at all if the post wasn’t getting taken away and the paperwork and banking weren’t being done. And the longer someone has been standing in a queue the longer they feel entitled to stand there arguing and holding everybody else up.
Elsewhere due to apps and the internet there’s a lack of accountability and process. But it just seems to mean people in front facing roles have to bear the brunt of everybody else’s issues. So the PO staff don’t just take complaints about the PO and themselves, but about the banks, bill companies, passport companies, Royal Mail and Amazon…
Sometimes lifts break or computers shut down, and they have a bill that needed to be paid today and that’s going to be your fault.
Personal-Basis-407@reddit
They put me on a final warning for time off, because I had covid and pneumonia after Christmas eve (2 days off) then 6 months later was hospitalised for having seizures and pulling all the muscles in my back (signed off by doctor).
My round was also 800 houses, split between opposite ends of town - I'd walk about 24 miles a day, and they had overtime bans in for most of the time I worked there which means on busy days I couldn't possibly complete the round, unless I want to work for free or be punished for getting back later.
Terrible company, such a shame. I quit this year.
Vorkos_@reddit
Simply a product of the way the royal mail has been mismanaged and butchered. If people don't respect the institution, they won't respect the workers, regardless of how innocent they might be.
Damn shame imho.
talligan@reddit
Our last postie seemed to know everyone on his route, knew which houses could be trusted to hold packages etc... and it was in central Edinburgh so he had loads of addresses he served. Incredibly impressive.
saigonstowaway@reddit
Ours was the same- knew who'd be in their house and when, knew where people liked their packages left if they weren't there, actually knocked on the door audibly to hand over any oversize/signature required items and was just a really friendly, helpful person.
My family had a weird little Westie who LOVED the postman, and when he'd see his orange jacket on the end part of the street he'd fight to get out of the house before running up to him and barking for attention (or dog treats). Then he'd follow him around to each house in our section before trotting back home again quite happily.
deathschemist@reddit
Some things should be run as services, not businesses. I am very firm in that belief
The mail, water, electricity, healthcare, public transport... None of these need to make profit in and of themselves in my opinion.
West_Category_4634@reddit
Tbf, a fair fraction of them working with criminal gangs selling your personal info and letters for identity theft doesn't help though.
Glittering-Sink9930@reddit
[citation needed]
psycorah__@reddit
Bus drivers are absolute assh*les so I'm not suprised they don't get respected anymore. F them.
jebediah1800@reddit
God, it's high street banks! What an utter shower of shit they are now they've migrated online and closed all their town branches to be converted into coffee shops. I went into the last remaining branch of my bank to request a temporary £1000 overdraft facility to get me through the first few months of starting a new job. The 'professional' on reception said call the number on the back of your debit card, so I did: 30 mins later, computer said no. Could not be less fucking bothered to provide me with an agreed overdraft, despite me having banked with them for nearly 4 decades, being fully in credit for the last 2 years (despite not working), and in line to be earning £51K in my new job. I mean, what??
Glittering-Sink9930@reddit
You're surprised that they didn't want to lend £1000 to someone with no money and no income?
jebediah1800@reddit
Actually, what I am surprised about was that there was no-one.actual person remotely interested in me or my circumstances. I have an income, from a company pension but it's not enough to pay for the additional expenses I'll incur over the next few months. I'm as bona fide as they come. Nobody from the bank asked my anything about anything. Hence my utter contempt for the 'profession'.
Glittering-Sink9930@reddit
Would you lend £1000 to a stranger with no money and no income?
jebediah1800@reddit
40 years a customer and a known loan and credit history? Everyone goes through lean times, I'd expect a 'human' (if there is such a thing in the 'banking profession') to recognise that and do the necessary risk assessment. Are you a banking employee, or why the third degree?
jebediah1800@reddit
Oh, I see. You're just trolling for the sake of it. TY glittering-sink9930.
These-Barnaclez@reddit
No offence, but for me it was the NHS. The clap for NHS was a farce, and I've had the displeasure of working for 8 different trusts (1 directly, 7 as a contractor) in 5 odd years. And honestly, I've little patience left for the system anymore.
I fully understand the government treats it like a political football, but there are just far too many jobsworths in the NHS who treat it like a retirement gig.
I had a 25 year once say he could retire here cos it was such an easy job and he did so little. A radiology department run by a single experienced doctor and a entire squad of clearing students. A software company contracted to the local estates dept, rang me up 2 years after I left, because noone in the department would speak to them about their overdue bill. Each trust seems to operate totally independent of the next, as opposed to having one set strategic goal. One Trust spent £2million on consultancy fees alone for a project that was cancelled days before construction was supposed to start. Another trust has put an autistic teenager in charge of their facilities management system, because the main guy left, and they never bothered to hire again. Endless restructures of the same team. I saw a bloody fax machine once. In 2019. Clown show. And its so consistent across the NHS, like the only reason they got the job is because noone else would hire them.
The entire NHS needs to be turned upside down, before we completely lose it to rife incompetence.
Mavericks7@reddit
I've said this before but one of the biggest issues with the NHS (the non clinical side, which is huge) is a lack of young blood, every team is dominated by late 50s women who just want to coast along nicely into retirement.
These-Barnaclez@reddit
Not just women. Estates teams are largely 50+ blokes. By 2040, something like 41% of the construction and maintenance industry will be retired.
AutomaticInitiative@reddit
A lot of this is that no opportunities have been given to people who came of age basically after 2000. Pulled the ladder up after them and now a lot of industries across fields are going to have a massive retirement problem in the next 10-15 years.
Vorkos_@reddit
I'm a strong believer that this country has a long list of things to be proud of and a long list of things to be ashamed of. At the top of the proud list, I have always seen the NHS. It's an incredible institution that many other countries have modelled their health care systems after, and I love it deeply.
However, I also believe it has been underfunded and mismanaged for years and that there must be a better way to handle it. I pray (non-religiously) for the day we have a government brave enough to overhaul it and provide us with the health care my parents remember.
Munchkinpea@reddit
It seemed to be more efficient when the trained medical professionals were in charge.
Wonderful_Sorbet780@reddit
Pharmacists.
pookychan@reddit
Vets. People don't trust what you say and just think you're trying to "grab money" nowadays, which is not true at all. Combine that with a governing body that seems to be trying to undermine what you do and make it more difficult for you to do your job and there's no wonder the profession is dying. I wouldn't be surprised if there are no vets at all in the next 20 years and people will wonder why, when they've been treating us like shit since Covid.
solotraveladventures@reddit
I feel you. It's hard because you enter the profession for the passion and love for the animals but sometimes it's hard to see past the constant arguments about not being able to afford treatment. Vet myself
pookychan@reddit
This is so true. And I feel like for some reason people find it more acceptable to argue with us about this. It's so disheartening.
solotraveladventures@reddit
What have you found the attrition rate is? Do you know a lot of people leaving the profession? Among my graduating cohort, most have stayed the course
LegitimatePieMonster@reddit
I think it comes down to a couple of things. A combination of people not realising that medical care (whether for animal or human) costs a lot, along with many practices being taken over by investment companies which has I think pushed up prices (these businesses don't take on things that aren't going to generate A LOT of money for them).
Holiday-Poet-406@reddit
Police, nurse, social worker, school teacher have gone from protector to being regarded as scum in the past 40 years. Trouble is they are still very much needed.
nerdalertalertnerd@reddit
I think they’ve become thankless ultimately. Even with increase of wages (after a battle for them), the jobs are public facing, highly stressful, emotionally draining and riddled with institutional issues. Until society fixes why these jobs in particular are so significantly stressful and difficult, no amount of money will align it.
FlawlessCalamity@reddit
Copper here, couldn’t agree more. I think most of the public facing, public sector roles are running purely on goodwill - the police certainly is. There’s still enough people willing to do it, but I think it’s going to get close to the wire over the next year or two.
talbotman@reddit
For me I think the reduced respect is, in part, because you never really see them anymore. Report a crime they may not even see you, just give crime number. Don't see them out and about in towns. Smaller stations becoming unmanned and closed to public. They just are visible enough so don't get thought as much of.
Totally get this is a budgeting issue and the changes are likely not in line with what the average copper would want
FlawlessCalamity@reddit
It’s more a lack of respect on a personal level, as opposed to general dissatisfaction with austerity, that the police don’t have a say in.
I think the media campaign over the last 5 years has been more to blame really. The police are blamed for whatever they can be at the earliest opportunity, negative press gets turbocharged, assaults on police are essentially seen as legal by the courts, etc.
talbotman@reddit
I do think people feel they can have a physical go at police now more than in the past. It seems to have become more acceptable.
Media don't help. If police are in the news it's always negative, making them look like idiots and a laughing stock in some way. It's not fair as I know it's a bloody hard job and officers see a lot of things that are not at all nice (just trying to be polite). They also forget police operate within the.law and it's restrictions. They can't just go do something because the public wants.
Apologies if I've came across wrong on previous posts. I definitely think police have become way less respected to the point folk have no qualms about assaulting them, along with other emergency workers. Don't think I'll ever quite understand some folks attitudes
Jake_91_420@reddit
To be fair when most people see the police as a group of early to mid 20s people arresting people for tweets or facebook comments and ignoring real crime, their value quickly diminishes. I know it's not totally accurate, but most people seem to think that the police don't actually help with the actual criminal or antisocial problems in their areas at all.
ApprehensiveAd9202@reddit
Politician, apparently there was a time where that was a respected profession
I wouldn't know anything about that
bestorangeever@reddit
The military
Titian_Red@reddit
The shame and embarrassment of the defeat at Basra has been textbook in terms of PR management. Amazed the MOD achieved it. Everything else they touch turns to shit more or less instantly.
ProtonHyrax99@reddit
I think Iraq / Afghanistan did a lot to destroy the image.
Obviously the military didn’t choose to invade, but being associated with an unpopular, non-defensive war, in a subservient role to the US, didn’t feel right to a lot of people.
There’s also increasing awareness of historic war crimes and cover ups.
ShambolicNerd@reddit
I think it's rather the opposite tbh
Actual soldiers are given a lot of respect by the general public - just go watch a parade. There were charities like Help For Heroes which went ridiculous at the end.
Before Iraq/Afghanistan armed forces charities, armed forces day, remembrance day weren't as big a deal
MgFi@reddit
I think the extremely overt respect people hand out now started as a kind of backlash against the disrespect shown to Vietnam Veterans back in the day. The Iraq war came along and there seemed to be a real move to show these veterans how much they were appreciated.
acnebbygrl@reddit
I and everyone I know still respects that, but I can see how anti police circles could maybe disrespect the military.
nerdalertalertnerd@reddit
I don’t disrespect the police or military but don’t feel much automatic immediate respect for either.
Vorkos_@reddit
Yeah, I feel this. I appreciate the police for the sense of security they give, even if its somewhat false, particularly when I was a kid, and I believed the police could solve any problem. However, I am not obvious to the failures of that institution and will always push the govt to implement higher standards.
I'm also glad the majority don't have guns.
nerdalertalertnerd@reddit
I think here we don’t really have a “thank you for your service” attitude they have in places like the US. For me, I understand it’s a hard very demanding job but I find it strange when it’s sometimes inferred I should automatically respect someone for being in the military. They’re doing a job like anyone else as far as I can see. It’s not conscription. (Though I do agree with supporting military back into society and recognise funding needed for this).
irish_horse_thief@reddit
My occupation has never ever ever been respected, I work in the shadows..
Almost_Sentient@reddit
Engineer. In the rest of the world it's up there with medics and lawyers. In this country, people think we fix toasters and unblock sinks.
When I say rest of the world, I mean the parts where their economies are growing. Like ours did in the industrial revolution. When we had respect for engineers.
broken-runner-26@reddit
Doctors and nurses
Small_Promotion2525@reddit
Nursing is still the most trusted profession that exists.
PuzzleheadedFold503@reddit
Not at all. Nursing has one of the worst bullying and abuse cultures of any sector, between nurses, towards patients, from other medical staff... Most of the raging b*tches I knew growing up, ended up a nurse. Or for those who didn't have the brain for University, working in some form of low level carer role.
Small_Promotion2525@reddit
https://www.ipsos.com/en-uk/ipsos-veracity-index-2024
Many many reports prove you’re wrong and chatting pure rubbish.
MrKrappenshits@reddit
Can I ask are you a nurse?
I think the day to day matters a lot more than what comes up on a survey and I can promise you now most hospital staff don’t feel all that respected.
The respect I’d prefer is good working conditions, pay and human decency. Your surveys are as useless as the old Covid NHS clapping in terms of outcome.
TableSignificant341@reddit
The amount of nurses that are anti-mask is wild.
Small_Promotion2525@reddit
What a load of nonsense.
TableSignificant341@reddit
Your comment history says it all.
SelectTrash@reddit
As a hospital patient connoisseur, the good outweighs the bad. But I remember the horrible nurse in the ward I was on with a collapsed lung rather than the nice ones for some reason.
Small_Promotion2525@reddit
I understand that, but factually speaking, nursing is the most trusted and respected profession along with things like firemen and paramedics.
SelectTrash@reddit
I do trust nurses. I was sleepily trying to give an example of why people say this and then I lost my train of thought and posted thinking I had finished so I apologise
Small_Promotion2525@reddit
Oh yeah I get what you mean, one bad apple can ruin the batch, as I do find it strange so many people on here seem to say this when all statistical evidence points towards nursing being at the very top of respected professions
Necessary-Crazy-7103@reddit
There is a huge gap between trust and respect.
Small_Promotion2525@reddit
Nursing is the most trusted and respect profession.
broken-runner-26@reddit
Trusted but not respected.
Small_Promotion2525@reddit
False.
bluegrm@reddit
I’ve worked outside the UK and there are countries (Ireland being one of them) where doctors are more respected. People don’t have an issue with healthcare workers earning more than they do in the UK in Ireland, Canada, Australia, US etc. The UK has an attitude of begrudgery rather than one where should all be trying to lift each other up.
Definitely_Human01@reddit
People don't have an issue with paying them more. People have an issue with paying more and not getting better service.
NHS staff have gone on strike multiple times over the last few years. Now their reasoning makes perfect sense, as their pay has been eroded over time.
So every year we pay them more to try and bring them back in line or stop the erosion, yet the quality of service itself keeps getting eroded regardless.
If you had a choice between paying more to get less or paying the same to get less, who would choose the former?
Obviously that isn't the fault of most NHS staff, especially not the ones you're likely to interact with.
But all that will register in people's mind is "I'm paying my GP more than I did last year, but it's only gotten harder to actually get an appointment with them. What am I even paying them for if I can't get an appointment?"
bluegrm@reddit
I have worked in a system where consultants are paid 2-3x as much for their public job as the UK and they do work harder there as morale really is better. They also come back from the US and Canada because salaries are at least somewhat competitive. Where I am in the UK, we’re leaching staff particularly to ROI, and waiting lists are the worst in these islands (in NI), and staff are the lowest paid. There is some correlation.
Definitely_Human01@reddit
I'm not sure what your point is.
Mine is that we can pay staff 3% more in real terms than we did last year, but that doesn't mean quality of care increases by 3%, so people get unhappy with paying more.
MrKrappenshits@reddit
The fact is people are getting an amazing deal when you look at what individual NHS staff members are getting paid.
Your argument falls to pieces when you ask the average person “do you feel like a Doctor or Nurse deserves £17 an hour?”.
The NHS being a complete mess is not an excuse to pay staff less and common sense should tell you the shit pay is exacerbating the issue.
SaxonChemist@reddit
It's a crabs in a bucket mentality.
fayemoonlight@reddit
That’s not the issue at all lol. The issue is that the quality of care within the NHS has been in free fall and people are sick of it. For example, my own GP caused me so much hassle with my ADHD diagnosis simply because he couldn’t be bothered to google what Right to Choose was. Earn as much money as possible but you have to actually put the effort in and show that you give a shit
TAOMCM@reddit
It's because they're public servants here and their salaries are transparent.
Titian_Red@reddit
Banking. I think feelings towards this whole sector of the economy are much more negative than just ‘not respected’ but border on fear, resentment and loathing.
wonderlust7164@reddit
unfortunately politicians and police officers 😏
ImBaldAndOld@reddit
I've worked as a science teacher and in behaviour...it's how it is...
Note the pro-rata?
Decent_Confidence_36@reddit
Binman
Annual_History_796@reddit
I lost respect for my binmen when they wouldn't empty my food waste because it was 5 inches further back from the fence than they wanted it to be.
You're coming back to get it once I raise a missed collection, why not save both of us the hassle?
Decent_Confidence_36@reddit
I feel with binmen if they were private companies it would work great but because it’s council it’s an absolute shower
daniel2hats@reddit
Police. They're useless.
ImBaldAndOld@reddit
https://www.teachinherts.com/career-advice/salary-calculator.htm
ImBaldAndOld@reddit
https://www.teachinherts.com/career-advice/salary-calculator.htm
Responsible_Elk425@reddit
Architects and accountants, low demand high cost
JordiLyons1234@reddit
Landscape gardeners. We’re treated like scum of the earth.
ichikhunt@reddit
People respect people for their jobs? Why?
madskull0409@reddit
Sadly, in a world of declining social graces, there are no respected positions left. Maybe the fire service gets the least abuse in our ungrateful and rude society?
Icy-Belt-8519@reddit
Police, doctors
SpeedyNips@reddit
Architects.
dxg999@reddit
University lecturers
MarkWrenn74@reddit
Missionaries (for understandable reasons)
Warm-Tax8956@reddit
Oil & gas employees. Can't admit to working for an O&G major without feeling the need to sound slightly apologetic. Still very good places to work despite regular restructuring and uncertainty about company strategy.
insatiable__greed@reddit
Rightly so
Douglesfield_@reddit
O&G isn't just fuel.
insatiable__greed@reddit
We have too much oil and gas for fuel yes.
We also have too much virgin plastic from oil.
Many byproducts from refining are only used because they are made in such quantities and therefore cheap.
We would otherwise use other things.
We should be divesting from oil and gas as much as possible and putting that money into better existing alternatives.
All of this is to say, we should not respect jobs in oil and gas.
Douglesfield_@reddit
This is completely untrue.
Plastics are used because they are literally the best material for the job.
insatiable__greed@reddit
Plastic is not a by product
Automatic_Access3927@reddit
I think you need to understand and define what a 'profession' is. Bus driving isn't a profession...and estate agency certainly isn't 🤣
The traditional professions include Drs/medical professionals, lawyers, chartered accountants, chartered engineers, theologias, teachers etc.
Basically any career (not job) that requires post higher education (university) study and exams, usually overseen by a professional membership body or institute.
drplokta@reddit
Being a bus driver is a job, not a profession. Professions require professional qualifications and regulation — doctors, accountants, architects, vets, dentists, lawyers, etc.
Theo_Cherry@reddit (OP)
☝🏿This right here, ladies and gentlemen, absolute disrespect! 😆🤦🏿♂️
drplokta@reddit
It’s respect for the English language. “Job” and “profession” don’t mean the same thing, and it’s wrong to pretend that they do. Only a few jobs are also professions. And it’s not disrespectful to people who have jobs that aren’t professions to say that.
Theo_Cherry@reddit (OP)
Playing with semantics isn't making your case any stronger!
Common-Plankton2751@reddit
It's true even nursing and teaching you could say are not true professions in the strict sense of the word.
brian1509@reddit
Teachers , Drs , nurses, the police, its t HR e 21st century and we live like we are in the middle ages
Gadgie2023@reddit
Engineers.
Brunel, Stephenson, Bazalgette.
Now every vaguely technical position is deemed an engineer when you they are not.
Just waiting for Subway to create Sandwich Engineers.
ratty_89@reddit
British gas seemed a bit confused when I told them I wanted my boiler serviced not re-designed.
But then I think it's going a bit too far saying that only chartered engineers get the title (screw paying for all the ImechE BS). But let's keep it to those of us with a BEng, maybe some BSc.
Watsis_name@reddit
"Well send an engineer around."
"No, no, a technician will be fine. Better even."
raspberryharbour@reddit
I demand a Boiling Solutions Innovation Vusionary
greggery@reddit
I don't think anyone is saying that only chartered engineers should get to call themselves engineers though? Just that the definition of an "engineer" has become somewhat diluted of late.
inevitablelizard@reddit
Sandwich engineer apprentices.
Tennyson-Pesco@reddit
Same as "technician". Any job that requires any sort of skill/proficiency to do it, regardless of how rigorous it is, deems you a "technician". Prime example being "lash technicians", they've never been technicians in a month of Sundays
RainbowDissent@reddit
I don't know what a lash technician is, but it sounds suspiciously like a title a bunch of rugby lads would bestow on a group member who organised the nights out circa 2008 (the peak LadBible "Archbishop of Banterbury" era).
woi oi lads it's Banta Claus and the Lash Technician, get the sambucas in
BiscuitBarrel179@reddit
My job title is machine technician. I set, operate, make adjustments, and fix minor things on extrusion blow moulding machines. Do I count as a technician? It's a serious question as the service engineers like to refer to us as machine minders.
mrginge94@reddit
Sounds like the definition of a technician to me.
Id say service engineers are another example of the title being wrongly used. Service technician would be more appropriate.
FeckinHaggis@reddit
I think so, if you can fix and maintain equipment that to me is a technician
beaky_teef@reddit
The went down the arts route didn’t they?
Sandwich Artist of the month.
dxnielhutom0@reddit
Engineers? Artists? Science route is missing!! We'll have repair scientists next
quite_acceptable_man@reddit
Time for one of my favourite fun facts. As most people know, Joseph Bazalgette was a civil engineer whose most notable achievement was the creation of London's sewerage system.
His great, great grandson, Peter Bazalgette, as creative director of Endemol UK, brought Big Brother to UK TV screens.
So Great Grandad piped shit out of people's homes, and then 150 years later, Great Great Grandson came along and piped shit in to people's homes.
SelectTrash@reddit
Lmao, I was a fan in the olden days of big brother but I’ve not watched it since then.
mantequilla69420@reddit
Hey, Engineers Solved Problems - If someone makes a sandwich good enough to solve more than just my hunger, hell I'll call them a Sandwich Engineer
Bobcat-2@reddit
No, they can fuck off and die is what they can do.
PixelBlueberry@reddit
GPs.
They are fully qualified specialist doctors restricted by onslaughts of 10 minute appointment blocks (usually taken up by complex patients) and NHS referral criteria and guidelines that must be followed.
Used as punching bags by the public because they are public-facing; no one seems to actually realise how intensive this job is and how much knowledge and work is needed to become one.
In other countries, being a doctor or family medicine doctor is incredibly respected. Here, jokes are made constantly about one’s “useless GP.” No wonder 1 in 4 GPs have left for work abroad where they are better respected.
Expensive-Worker-582@reddit
My Dad was a bus driver in the 80s/90s. He definitely wasnt widely respected. He always said his job would be 10x easier if it wasn't for the general public.
BlackberryNice1270@reddit
Healthcare admin, from receptionists to managers. People take their frustrations with their diagnosis, clinicians they feel aren't listening to them, and the limitations of the NHS as a whole, out on us. They'll behave terribly to us, then go into the treatment room all polite and respectful.
Common-Plankton2751@reddit
As an NHS worker I agree with this, having seen it many times.
LowerObject2985@reddit
In the USA, LEOs and teachers. Their unions, and lack of accountability, have greatly contributed to the decline in perception.
Vorkos_@reddit
I suspect this question was asked specifically about the UK, considering the subreddit.
LowerObject2985@reddit
Fair enough. When I signed up for Reddit I was at LHR and I have always had this sub. I should probably block it.
Curious, have LEOs and teachers lost their status in the UK as well?
Quercus_rover@reddit
Anything to do with nature. My grandad used to work with trees and do gardening. People were more connected with nature and took more pride/interest in the nature around them. I now do tree inspection and get grief every day from people who think that retirement means you are now a certified guardian of the countryside.
OptimisedMan@reddit
Politician. Police officer. Banker. Disc jockeys.
Outside_Barnacle5810@reddit
Telehandlers for Mental Health Crisis lines, like Samaritans.
People took on these roles usually because they wanted to help people. Now? There are frequent callers who will phone for someone to shout at and abuse, men will keep phoning until they get a female member of staff and then masturbate down the phone, knowing because it's a crisis line they can't hang up the phone.
Because Samaritans are anonymous some people will confess horrific crimes for the joy of being able to do that without consequences.
Its a job that erodes peoples souls, and they don't last long.
solotraveladventures@reddit
Veterinarians
Substantial-Peach702@reddit
Scientists. People prefer to "do their own research" these days.
DJwelly@reddit
Academics.
ubiquitousuk@reddit
This would be my answer. Used to be among the best paid members of society and held in wide esteem as the custodians and originators of knowledge and educators of the professional classes. Now they are paid less than train drivers and get no end of stick because everyone hates universities.
Electronic_Ad_6535@reddit
Politicians
Silly-Marionberry332@reddit
not sure they have lost more respect thatcher was pm from 1979 to 1990 and she is despised
FairShoe781@reddit
Thatcher is also loved by the other half.
Silly-Marionberry332@reddit
I doubt the numbers match equally on love v hate though
Vorkos_@reddit
Yeah, there were definitely lots of people who loved her and lots of people that hated here. There were also people who were indifferent but maybe leant slightly her way. I genuinely believe the hate definitely outweighed the love, but it was the casuals that made the difference.
FairShoe781@reddit
It’s an exposure thing, it’s effectively half like her half dislike her. My mum grew up in a single parent household in a Scottish council estate and despises her, my dad went to a boarding school in southern England, his dad was an investment banker and his stepdad owned a construction company and they loved thatcher
Evening-Web-3038@reddit
Really?
The 2025 Q2 YouGov poll on the top Prime Ministers in terms of popularity (positive opinion) can be found: The most popular UK prime ministers in the UK | Entertainment | YouGov Ratings
Thatcher is currently 3rd, behind Peel(?) and Churchill.
I suppose you can argue that, if you click on her in the above link, she is disliked by 35% but then I draw your attention to Keir who is disliked by 52% or Gordon Brown who is disliked by 36%.
I would argue that you actually mean "she is despised by people in my team"
Anony_mouse202@reddit
When did they have respect?
greggery@reddit
As a class not for some time, if ever, though individuals are absolutely worthy of respect.
CommercialAd2154@reddit
Working in education I think teachers generally are respected (it’s just that all it takes is for one parent not to be on board and it can make a BIG difference), vicars? MPs?
sj8sh8@reddit
With teachers it's weird. Most parents seem quite supportive of what their kids' teachers do, but the public discourse around teachers in general is often quite negative. I guess the ones who aren't on board tend to shout loudest.
Laylelo@reddit
Parents are supportive? Maybe. Until they’re asked to do literally anything to support their child’s education, or challenged on behavioural issues.
14JRJ@reddit
Some parents are like that, for sure. Most aren’t, in my experience
CommercialAd2154@reddit
I think a lot of parents are very naive as to how to help their kids, they’re on board with what the teachers say, they just don’t know how to help. I also know some parents who are just absolutely at their wits end with kids who simply don’t care, which is sad
14JRJ@reddit
Yeah there are myriad different types of parents. Some of them need to be patented themselves sometimes. I’ve had parents in meetings saying they don’t know how to stop them playing the Xbox that’s in their room at 2am
Scarabium@reddit
Some schools actually run parenting classes. Some parents can barely read or write.
AutoPanda1096@reddit
You are spot on. I hear this from my teaching relatives.
Always going on about late night gaming and energy drinks to keep them awake in class.
It's sad really.
Everything starts with the kids.
SelectTrash@reddit
I don’t want to be rude, but some people near me are parents of multiple kids but they’re not very well educated themselves.
saigonstowaway@reddit
My experience tells me that this often isn't the case. I've literally spelled it out to parents about things they can do to help their kid and they either act totally helpless and clueless like a classroom is alien to them, or they argue with you on every point as to why it isn't their responsibility/is actually YOUR job.
Scarabium@reddit
I can attest to that. The ambivalence is off the scale unless there's money involved (food vouchers, etc.).
AutoPanda1096@reddit
Yes, you made the same point I did but much more succinctly lol
Spot on, this is what I was getting at.
When people ask my family what they do and learn they are teachers it's always some pissy comment about long holidays, failing the kids, not having a "real" job, couldn't cut it in the real world, etc.
My mum has a first in maths from Cambridge lol
Worried-Ad-7348@reddit
My experience working in a UK college teaching 16-19 year olds is that, sadly, most parents are kind of indifferent. And more often these days, they think the sun shines out of their kid's arse and they can do no wrong. And, like you said, it's those that are like that and, as a result, have no respect for teachers, who tend to shout the loudest. If only they could see the work we put in to support their kids.
CommercialAd2154@reddit
This exactly
Scarabium@reddit
As a governor I often see the efforts teachers put in against impossible odds. The majority really do care about the children, often more than the parents do.
tmr89@reddit
What do you mean by “on board” here?
Rararanter@reddit
Wanting parents to be "on board" usually means wanting them to be on the same team as the teacher in order to jointly support their child. Sometimes parents think that the teacher is judgemental, mean, inconsiderate, unfair, etc and they tend to want to defend themselves and their child instead of listening and working with the teacher. It is hard to support a child when the parent is combative instead of "on board".
tmr89@reddit
Thank you
AutoPanda1096@reddit
Yes and no.
I am related to teachers and there is definitely a sense that there isn't wider respect.
Like when I see peoples response to "I'm a teacher" it's usually met with some pissy comments about long holidays and knocking off at 3.
Funnily enough that's not always true as the last time I saw such an exchange the guy was in awe. "That's a job I could never do" "must be hard with the teens round here" "you guys work so hard bet you are done by the time holidays come round" "when was the last time you guys got a pay increase"
Wow someone who actually got it.
Rarely happens though.
NoLove_NoHope@reddit
People really don’t respect teachers enough.
tmr89@reddit
Especially the bratty snotty students
Scarabium@reddit
Teachers.
Ignorant, entitled parents thinking it's a school's job to raise their child and then thinking they know better at all times. Too many parents forget that teachers are human beings.
For many children, a teacher may be the best role model they will encounter in their early years.
wigl301@reddit
I’m a financial adviser and I don’t think many people like us. It’s a shame as our industry is just constantly slated on the fees aspect. I have a number of clients who would never have had the confidence to invest without the support and education I’ve given them. I’ve got several clients now who have retired in a much healthier position than they otherwise would have done. I think it’s a crime that so many people leave secondary school with no financial literacy. It’s so important. Lots of these loan companies have totally exploited it. Think how much less credit card debt there would be if everyone actually understood what they were signing up for. I can remember getting my first mortgage when I was in my early 20’s and couldn’t believe none of that was taught to me at school, yet algebra etc finds a place on the curriculum. Nuts.
Frequent-Lock7949@reddit
Teachers. Parents can’t parent anymore and can never accept their little darlings will ever do anything wrong. can’t wait to see how this generation functions in jobs when they’re older
Vorkos_@reddit
This bothers me so much. These are professional educators, yet they are expected to also be parents and social workers, and God knows what else. Poor parenting is really damaging this country. We need to get to the bottom of what's causing this and then offer help to those who need it. The cost will be far outweighed by the gain in the long run.
LegitimatePieMonster@reddit
Is it poor parenting out of laziness, or poor parenting as a result of following trends.
Frequent-Lock7949@reddit
Laziness I would say. And no respect for authority. Gentle parenting when done right is actually really good.
But parents nowadays are letting social media parent their kids. You’ve now got kids with limited attention spans who think they can get away with anything.
InfinityChina@reddit
IT and any WFH
Annual_History_796@reddit
IT has never been respected. Its seen as a waste of money because it costs a lot without any visible ROI. Then when they cut the budget to save that money and things get worse, that's also IT's fault.
AgileSloth9@reddit
IT never got respect. We have always been expected to fix any issue, but get abused in the process and have idiotic people who don't understand that we're not telling them to switch something off and on again for the craic.
We barely get any acknowledgement when everything works well, and get abuse when it breaks.
MozzaMoo2000@reddit
I see a lot of hate for the police these days, it’s especially sad because they are just doing their job, which they would lose if they didn’t do what they were told, however unpopular that may be.
Vorkos_@reddit
I do think a large proportion of this is just a duplication of American hate.
I'd never in a million years claim that our police are close to perfect. We see there failures all the time on the news. However, I really do think the average copper you meet on the street is genuinely trying to help and keep people safe.
That being said, the police should absolutely be held to the highest level of responsibility, and any genuine failures should be met with the harshest of penalties. But then I start disagreeing with myself because I'm aware that we really struggle to recruit armed officers due to the severity of the blowback if they discharge their weapons. It's a mess.
MozzaMoo2000@reddit
Yeah the police aren’t perfect but I believe the vast majority are good people who are just doing their job so they can pay their mortgage and feed their family, and people scrutinise them for upholding laws that are ridiculous.
LisseaBandU@reddit
Personally, I'm seeing a much bigger problem. The whole concept of respect has gone out the window, and it doesn't benefit anybody.
LouisaB75@reddit
Looking at the variety of professions listed here, I think you have hit the nail on the head.
RegularPie5512@reddit
Postman. Used to an integral member of the local community. Privatisation put an end to that. Essentially amazon delivery drivers now.
JazzberryPi@reddit
Care workers. It's horrifying seeing family members and friends brush off their black eyes and split lips like that's normal for a minimum wage jobs. It's not ok.
JazzberryPi@reddit
In fairness I do think Joe public respects them, just not management or government or anyone that could actually improve working conditions.
WeGotMonkey86@reddit
Nothing is respected anymore.
irv81@reddit
Engineering.
I've lost count of the amount of times I've been employed for my expertise, gained over a 25 year career, only to be told I'm wrong by someone who Engineering experience never made it past GCSE technology, because I told them something they didn't want to hear.
Mavericks7@reddit
I applied for a job this one time, got to the interview stage, one of the questions was, why don't I have a maths GCSE? The second interviewer looked at the first like really?
"I wanted to scream, I've got 15 years experience in my field and a 1st in engineering"
Got the job but decided not to take it for other reasons.
saigonstowaway@reddit
My neighbour said this. He was mostly involved with high voltage electrical infrastructure and internal systems in factory installations/renovations and also some maintenance, and he said it was more or less a standard part of his job that he'd be the sole engineer in a room of people who'd probably wire a plug wrong and having to basically spell out the most basic concepts to them or explaining why their latest pie in the sky idea wouldn't work, or sometimes that their budget of 75p and a Mars bar wasn't enough for major projects.
Same_Nature5190@reddit
Property surveyor, often treated like shit under the clients shoe's, level of verbal abuse is wild at times.
Fluxoteen@reddit
Airline staff
autobulb@reddit
Airline pilots and cabin attendants.
Pilots have essentially become bus drivers in the air. Their pay and benefits have gone down over the years, and they are often overworked.
CAs used to be able to fly anywhere their airline or partners went to for free. Now they're lucky if the airline they work for gives them a slightly discounted ticket on a flight IF it's off season and they happen to have some empty seats.
Also, they basically turned into bar staff on short haul flights to popular party destinations, having to constantly serve drinks and deal with loud, drunk, and sometimes abusive customers.
The entire flying "culture" has declined over the decades now that I think about it.
ukguy619@reddit
Im a cleaner and ive worked in loads of places mostly schools thou. But even some teachers looked down their noses at me based on my position. They never noticed the extra stuff i did that I wasnt supposed to but as soon as I didnt do something then its noticed..
Its simple sure we dont get paid as much as some jobs and like I said not everyone appreciates us but when we not there people notice and then complain..
People just take us for granted, we slide into the backgrounds, you know we are there but dont bother to speak to us.
Altruistic-Rich-7809@reddit
Teacher
MP
Red_Emberr@reddit
Art, always used to be seen as just a hobby and infeasible which has now gotten worse with the introduction of AI. So many people just buy up poor quality AI mugs and crafts at local fairs and don’t commission artists anymore.
You can’t even post your work online anymore without people stealing and feeding it through AI to edit it slightly then resell it.
PsychologicalScars@reddit
Academics. It suits the government to position universities as degree factories with academics as facilitators and frame the degrees themselves as a means to an end in the job market. While teaching is a big part of the job, the role of academics in producing groundbreaking research and furthering knowledge is generally obscured in the media in discussions about public funding, fees etc. It also enables governments to avoid discussion on the importance of education for education’s sake which everyone should have access to, especially in a wealthy country (and incidentally in many European countries university is still free or very low cost and not subject to the ‘market’).
TheWarmestHugz@reddit
Firefighters. Attacks and assaults on fire crews have increased significantly, especially around the time of bonfire night.
copacetic_flooring@reddit
There's more crackheads and mental health issues than there have ever been, which are the primary source of attacks on fire crews, but generally; no - attacks haven't increased 'significantly'.
Bonfire night has nothing to do with it. There is no uptick in attacks on crews at that time.
TheWarmestHugz@reddit
“During the financial year 2021 to 2022, there were 983 incidents involving an attack on firefighters, an increase of five per cent (or an increase of 49 incidents) on the previous year”
Statistics published by the Home Office indicate that there were 96 injuries suffered from attacks during England-based operational incidents in 2023-2024. Not only does this represent a rise of more than 25% on the year before, but it’s also the highest figure recorded in any of the past 15 years and a 284% increase on the 25 cases noted in 2014-2015.
Attacks on firefighters increase to highest in more than ten years
Brand new body worn cameras have been rolled out across County Durham and Darlington Fire and Rescue Service (CDDFRS) in time to support firefighter safety this fireworks season.
New study using novel ways to reduce number of attacks on firefighters
Brigade calls for abusive behaviour towards firefighters and control room staff to stop following incident rise – data shows two staff abused every week
Violent attacks on Lancashire fire fighters totally 'unacceptable', says service after stats revealed
Bonfire night: Firefighters call for more resources ahead of busiest night of the year
Firefighters were attacked with fireworks thrown at them during a period of Bonfire Night-related "criminality".
Newly released figures show there were 21 physical attacks on firefighters recorded across Scotland in 2024-25.
Vorkos_@reddit
That's really sad. Firefighters, of all people, purely exist to protect life, putting their own on the line in exchange. I'll stand by them as having one of the most selfless and valuable jobs going.
Mountain-Escape-742@reddit
Housekeepers.
It's extremely hard grafting and really gets to your body. People forget how tough it is on the body overtime, particularly with how fast and dedicated to impeccable cleanliness we have to be.
I would have to have muscle soaks after each day to help the soreness.
Beeblets@reddit
Doctors. Think pound for pound they've had the biggest fall off in terms of respect since 2010
dwair@reddit
TBH, I tend to respect the person rather than the job title. As a kid I was always taught that respect is something earned (but politeness should be shown to everyone).
oliveoliverYT@reddit
Pharmacists. Compared to gps
Gent414@reddit
Journalist. Used to be seen as investigators and truth tellers. Now just seen as muck rakers and celebrity chasers. Largely due to the actions of a few tabloids.
GirlFromBlighty@reddit
To be honest I don't respect anyone because of their job. Everyone gets basic human respect from me, & depending on how they react to that, they'll get more or less of it! I'm still polite to bus drivers, thank people cleaning the street etc. & if someone acts all important because of their job it's probably going to make me not like them.
Obviously sometimes someone holds some power over you, & then you have to show respect in order to live your life, but I don't think that's the same really. I was raised a Quaker & it's kind of instilled in us that hierarchy is bunk, but I think it's my natural leaning as well.
Delicious-Program-50@reddit
Doctors! Half of them don’t know what the hell they’re talking about! I personally had a locus doctor GOOGLE my symptoms in front of me! I swear half these people let in have bought their qualifications on the black market! Completely clueless!
Douglesfield_@reddit
I'm sorry would you rather your doctor just guess your treatment.
It's physically impossible to remember everything to do with medicine especially with niche topics.
But hey, if you disagree feel free to join their ranks.
Delicious-Program-50@reddit
Yes yes I’d prefer them to GUESS my treatment, cos that’s exactly what I’m saying!! Tut! Why don’t you think about the question you’re asking before asking it! And if you don’t like a response just be big enough to ignore it.
🙄
Douglesfield_@reddit
Not how public forums work, love.
Delicious-Program-50@reddit
Love?? Go away you weirdo!
sm0key2PC@reddit
British police officer.
Antique-Sock-372@reddit
GPs
DogMundane@reddit
Priest
VegasRoy@reddit
Haberdasher
Indigo-Waterfall@reddit
CEOs
Single-Position-4194@reddit
Definitely teachers, partly I think because a lot more people have degrees now than used to.
Familiar-Woodpecker5@reddit
Public services. Especially the NHS and Ambulance Services that everyone clapped for and praised during Covid. Now they receive physical and verbal abuse often.
Lazer_beak@reddit
journalists they rate lower than politicians now , as they should
platoonhippopotamus@reddit
70s and 80s TV presenters, by and large
DiscombobulatedMix20@reddit
Would a traffic warden be one?
PracticeNo8733@reddit
Actually I think civil enforcement officers have made traffic wardens look a lot better by comparison.
BlondBitch91@reddit
“Were you a bully who peaked in school? Want to legally feel like a big man by making others terrified of you? Want to intimidate local people and businesses? Come work for the council!”
Extreme-Kangaroo-842@reddit
I always remember my grandad, back in the 80s, telling my mum and dad about a friend of his who received a parking ticket recently.
His mate had pulled up somewhere so his wife could run a quick errand. His wife was taking quite a while over it for whatever reason.
It was pissing it down with rain, freezing cold, and his mate saw this poor, bedraggled traffic warden slumping through the downpour. Opened the passenger window and told her to get inside to warm up.
She stayed in the car for half an hour, as she thawed out, and then took something out of her pocket.
She wrote him a parking ticket.
No idea if my grandad was parroting an urban legend, I've never heard a similar one, but it's one of my fondest memories of him.
BlondBitch91@reddit
The fact it’s fully believable too.
AggressiveAd5248@reddit
My grandad was a traffic warden when it was under the police. He was basically a police officer who focused on traffic laws and such.
I think it makes so little sense having this now done by private firms, you are paying a company idk 75% of the cost of having police do that job instead
The bonus is of course that for 25% extra cost you now have extra police walking around high traffic (foot and vehicle) areas.
Never made sense to me.
PaulSpangle@reddit
Traffic wardens used to be universally hated but there are so many more cars nowadays and people just leave them anywhere. This has meant that traffic wardens are a welcome sight for a lot of people.
Don't misunderstand me though - some are still power-crazed morons bent on ruining people's day.
-TrafficWarden-@reddit
100%
It’s a crazy job, the abuse is absolutely mental, however for every person shouting shit at you there is always someone thanking or requiring help with something or just giving us a moral boost, especially in the summer when everyone local is fed up with the tourists shit parking
Can’t speak for everywhere, but here at our town it’s the older ones nearing retirement that are the complete jobsworths, no leniency and rude, even in the office they’re bitter and bitchy with each other, but all the guys under 40 make an effort to treat everyone as we would hope to be treated
Bamzooki1@reddit
Black cabbie. With the birth of GPS and Über, their job is obsolete and their intimate knowledge of their home turf means basically nothing.
BlondBitch91@reddit
Journalist. Used to be a respected profession with integrity and now gestures at most press.
Politician. Used to be considered a trustworthy and safe pair of hands. Now generally seen as the worst among us.
Cultural_Joke2025@reddit
Professional lamppost flag hoister.
MrBananaStand1990@reddit
Teaching
jc456_@reddit
Teacher
Halfmoonhero@reddit
Firefighters
Jazzlike-Minute7757@reddit
Engineering. I went though a 4 year electrical and mechanical apprenticeship, put myself through training for Welding, PLC programming, pneumatics etc. and now im looking at job listings from 30k when the average wage in the UK is now 38k? Feel like I should have just trained in finance or something where I could do a lot less work with much more financial reward. My father in the same role was earning 30k in the early 2000s and and could support a family and buy a home, now I feel like re-training is my only chance at financial success
insatiable__greed@reddit
Welding doesn’t sound like engineering
Jazzlike-Minute7757@reddit
Depends on how you want to look at it. If i was to do a 3D design of some equipment that could assist in a job i’d then be able to order the parts, weld it together, that’s pretty useful to an engineering department
It’s another notch on my belt and I’m glad to have it, if i’m working on repairing and refurbishing a machine that has a crack or damage that can be welded i’m sure the head of the engineering department saw it much more beneficial to have multi-skilled engineers on the case instead of ordering new stainless steel parts at thousands of pounds a pop. Using a dedicated welding contractor would have been much more expensive than to train us to a high standard and have us do the job.
Vorkos_@reddit
I suspect the previous commenter is that an engineer is the person who designs what you weld, rather than the person that welds it together.
But if you're making the plan and executing it, I don't see anything inaccurate in calling yourself an engineer.
And even if not, if it just throws an extra thousand onto an insufficient salary, then you do what you can to get it.
Jazzlike-Minute7757@reddit
I mean i’m also a person that is able to design 3D models and 2D electrical drawings before making the thing I designed or installing the electrical equipment I spec’d. Along with the welding, along with pneumatic training, along with steam safety and BOAS training, as well as having been trained in programming PLCs and installing them or modifying programs. The welding was a very small part of it that made me a more competent and flexible multi-skilled engineer.
I don’t mind that his comment fixated on the welding, i was just making it known that i’m not ‘A Welder’, i’m an engineer who can TIG weld.
Vorkos_@reddit
I'm a software engineer, which is a career that also gets questioned for its 'engineering' credentials, but honestly, your role doesn't sound all that different from mine.
My welding is programming, writing code. Writing code is just one aspect of my role as a software engineer, there's been many days that I've not written a single line because I've been focused on design or strategy or whatever.
I've always described it as programming to a software engineer is like a telescope to an astronomer. You need it to do the job, but it's not the entirety of your job.
RedditChatIsBad@reddit
Farmers.
The people who work hard to provide food for the country.
People don't care where their food comes from anymore.
Vorkos_@reddit
I think people are struggling and lash out at anyone they see as owning anything significant in value (which farmers do in terms of land) and who receive preferential treatment from the Treasury.
Its difficult because I, in part, agree with their sentiment, but I'm also aware that without the tax breaks and grants they receive from the government, British agriculture would be none existent in a generation.
I apologize for being such an awful fence sitter.
Stuspawton@reddit
Hospital porters, used to get a lot of thanks and recognition, now we're looked at as if we're scum
saigonstowaway@reddit
My grandmother worked in a hospital and her department porters and also the patient transport ambulance staff were some of her favourite staff because they did essential work that could easily be forgotten.
Vorkos_@reddit
It really horrifies me that anyone can look at someone who works in hospitals without being filled with respect.
Everyone knows the NHS is underfunded, and therefore, its employees are underpaid. It doesn't matter what role you have, from the consultants to the cooks to the nurses or the porters. Everyone is working as part of a system that saves lives, and they deserve at least a modicum of respect for that.
Quiet-Rabbit-524@reddit
I’ve certainly lost respect and trust in doctors due to a series of bad experiences over the years. This does not apply to nurses - I find them to be very often brilliant.
saigonstowaway@reddit
I'm told by doctors that it's usually nurses fixing the mistakes of doctors' screw ups and keeping hospital wards actually functioning.
nerdalertalertnerd@reddit
I feel the opposite! Haven’t had good experiences with nurses but have with doctors.
Vorkos_@reddit
I appreciate I may have just been lucky, but I've always found NHS doctors and nurses to be exceptional despite their limited resources and (if we're being honest) pay.
I'm not advocating for ridiculous pay rises for doctors because, frankly, no ones pay is going up. However, they deserve enough money to be comfortable. They keep us alive for God's sake.
renlok@reddit
I don't think anyone has the respect of the general public anymore, so I would say any expert in any field, especially a public facing one.
The general public as a whole are awful
GrumpyIAmBgrudgngly2@reddit
Agricultural Professional Wool Grader. There's around 6,to800 grades of wool in The British Isles. Everyone seems to think wool is just wool. It's not...well, it is wool, yet there's a heck of a shedload more to it than just that.
Cheezel62@reddit
Bank manager, politicians, police, doctor, school principal, teacher, ambulance, fire brigade, pharmacist, shop owner, real estate agent, religious leaders, journalist, to name a few.
Less_Biscotti_9795@reddit
Flight attendants
kirstenkammy@reddit
GPs
Big-Ad4382@reddit
Teacher
traveler-traveler@reddit
Teachers. Journalists, news casters, politicians, lawyers, and in some cases doctors
jackyLAD@reddit
I mean, most of the high street was respected back in the 70's..... think we can openly say that's long gone, neither the staff themselves or the customer overly respect it. Essentially everything was respected at one point.
Sad state, but there you go.
HussingtonHat@reddit
Those poor lamplighters.
Joey_Pajamas@reddit
Teaching
Traditional_Prize632@reddit
Retail workers
LeonardoW9@reddit
Teachers, doctors, nurses, scientists.
CymroBachUSA@reddit
Teachers. Nurses.
seanraff89@reddit
Cleaners have never get the respect they deserve, most businesses would be buggered without them.
Jake_91_420@reddit
I don't think being a cleaner was every really a truly "respected" profession.
Pircster38@reddit
All of them unfortunately.
thisthrowawaythat202@reddit
That’s what it seems like even celebrities
greggery@reddit
I'm a chartered civil engineer. Nobody has a bloody clue what it is I do for a living.
About-40-Ninjas@reddit
Journalist
Adorable_Ad2786@reddit
Pharmacist
SchrodingersCigar@reddit
So Bribe/Pal/Nepotism express or different!
Mountain_Strategy342@reddit
Saggar maker's bottom knocker.
Just can't get the urchins anymore.
Far_Stranger_3148@reddit
Not true.. like any profession plenty of teachers have performed other roles previously.. others have also had jobs whilst at college and uni - like almost every single person who has ever been a student regardless of their field of study.
Am sure the experience of being surrounded by and dealing with 100s of children is definitely a unique one that differs immensely from most other professions
The post you responded to was definitely ignorant to the plight of many roles and workers but you in return proved the initial submission true
CommercialAd2154@reddit
Did London buses always have a back door you get out of? Out in ‘the sticks’ there’s just the one door you enter and exit from, it means you can thank the driver as you leave, it’s a bit more awkward to do that if you’re further away from the driver as you get off the bus
vague-eros@reddit
It's not awkward at all, you just say "thanks" a bit louder.
CommercialAd2154@reddit
Would rather be able to look at someone in the face when I say thanks rather than shout it in their general direction tbf
halfdressednow@reddit
Journalism
-XeneidoN-@reddit
IT.
Plop-plop-fizz@reddit
DJs. Unless you’re making your own remixes, everyone can find the ‘unique tracks’ that set you apart & the tech is way more affordable.
dazed1984@reddit
Police Officer, Teacher, probably a lot of other public sector jobs.
readysalt@reddit
teachers.
Nietzschesdog11@reddit
Doctors
QuantumMechanic23@reddit
Medical physicsts in hospitals used to be respected. Now no one knows who they are and basically glorified techs.
Lucy_Little_Spoon@reddit
Anything retail, it sucks
TheseStrategy5905@reddit
Street cleaner/litter pickers
JDoE_Strip-Wrestling@reddit
Security Officers
bahumat42@reddit
Bankers.
Best-Interaction82@reddit
ime my grandparents generation respected the necessary jobs more than we do today, both because they understood that they were necessary but also because you didn't know what that man had gone through in the war. It was mostly the working class that served.
Happy_Chief@reddit
It was more the element of the war than anything else which gave men the respect they had.
fluffy_butt_bee@reddit
Police
JackDrawsStuff@reddit
Dildo manufacturers used to be given ‘freedom of the city’ in ancient times.
Happy_Chief@reddit
That was a fun fact!
CynicalSorcerer@reddit
Some of them can be a pain in the butt
TheMountainThatTypes@reddit
They definitely plug a hole in the market
Snooker1471@reddit
Teachers. Anyone else in authority.
GeggingIn@reddit
Cabin Boy.
AutoModerator@reddit
Please help keep AskUK welcoming!
When repling to submission/post please make genuine efforts to answer the question given. Please no jokes, judgements, etc.
Don't be a dick to each other. If getting heated, just block and move on.
This is a strictly no-politics subreddit!
Please help us by reporting comments that break these rules.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.