First time purchasing a sailboat.

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No_Childhood446@reddit

Just get This Old Boat by Don't Casey and read it. It has a section on how to survey. Plus lots of information you'll want to know. If you're serious about sailing, you'll need to do so anyway. Educate yourself and know. There's no room for apathy on the water. The sea is not forgiving.

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Extreme_Map9543@reddit

It’s just the struggle. Ask the questions. Check sailboat data and forums and stuff. Then bite the bullet and drive 2 hours. It’s the first step of the process. Some people fly around the country or even the world multiple times without success to look at boats. A 2 hour drive is minimal in terms of the commitments you make sailing.

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Kpronline1@reddit (OP)

What are some good questions to ask regarding a 22’ in the $5000 range

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marcelebrate@reddit

Catalina 22 owner here.

Fixed or swing keel? The big ones everyone already mentioned, but also make sure the keel bolts or swing mechanism are in good shape. A swing keel can be repaired/replaced more easily, but the keel bolts on a fixed keel can’t be and you could have a big liability on your hands if they’re in bad shape. Ask for pictures of all bolts and winches. If there’s rust, request they clean it up to show what’s beneath.

It’s a perfect first boat and the Facebook communities have been very helpful for advice and parts.y

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Stormin_333@reddit

If it's a Catalina 22, the Facebook group has a "buyers checklist" of things to look for. Probably mostly applicable to other brands to o

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marcelebrate@reddit

Catalina 22 owner here. Fixed or swing keel? The big ones everyone already mentioned, but also make sure the keel bolts or swing mechanism are in good shape. The swing keel can be repaired/replaced more easily, but the keel bolts on a fixed keel can’t be. Ask for pictures of all bolts and winches. If there’s rust, request they clean it up to show what’s beneath.

It’s a perfect first boat and the Facebook communities have been very helpful for advice and parts.

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Mynplus1throwaway@reddit

What area are you In roughly?

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Extreme_Map9543@reddit

I spend more time asking the people about how they sailed it and the good times they’ve had, then the technical things. But just the basics, condition of rigging, sails, hull, interior, and random stuff. Condition of the trailer.

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LameBMX@reddit

someone drove 4 hours to buy my southcoast.

ask for pics, not words. bulkheads (specially where they butt against the hull), chain plates and the backing plates for high load items.

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svQuest30@reddit

To second this my 1st boat was a 4.5 drive away, 2nd boat was local, 3rd was 5 hours away and the 6th was 6 hours by car and I had to have a 36' boat trailer edge to home port

I'm currently looking for our 9th boat anywhere on the east or gulf coast.

I get it, it's as big time commitment but it's definitely worth it when you find the right boat.

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SailingJeep@reddit

Depending where you are (especially if not in a coastal area) driving 2 hours for a 22’ boat in the $5k range is completely realistic and recommended. I would be patient and wait till the boat that checks all your boxes comes along. For that price point, you should be able to find a nice boat built in the 1980s that is well maintained.

Others get nailed it on what to ask. Question sail condition and age, rigging condition and age (standing and running), condition of engine, trailer condition and maintenance schedule, maintenance schedule of keel lifting hardware (if swing). Ask for pictures of bulkhead and compression post. Ask why they are selling and how long they have had the boat. Make sure the pictures line up with reality (ie numerous times I have seen boats advertised that look in “sail away” condition but the registration sticker in the ad is years old).

Hope this helps

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SailingJeep@reddit

https://www.catalina22.org/index.php/download-files?folder=C22_Buyers_Guide

Here is a link to a 50 page guide on what to look for in a Cat 22, a nice boat for your size and price range.

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Kpronline1@reddit (OP)

Awesome, thank you. I live along the shore in New Jersey. Do you think the winter is still a good time to find a boat or would I have to wait till the spring?

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Stormin_333@reddit

This! The guide will be mostly applicable to any boat in that size range

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ez_as_31416@reddit

Winter is a good time to buy. Fewer other buyers.

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drroop@reddit

Anytime I touch a boat, it costs $100 or more and takes at least half a day. That's how boats are.

So, your first little boat project is easy, only $100 for gas and 4 hours of driving. Driving is boring, but so is sanding, and sometimes even sailing. When you get the thing, you'll be happy to drive for 4 hours to go 20 miles.

I'm not of the opinion that sellers are trying to screw me. Sure, maybe 10% or so, but what's a couple hundo vs. the overall project? Pictures might not show a gotcha, but you can tell the general condition, and some sellers might even be honest about the gotchas. Maybe I have over paid for my things occasionally but I maintain my wealth by having a pollyanna view of humanity.

Flip side of that is a buyer, don't go trying to get more than what is fair. The chances you get a once in a lifetime deal from a stranger are pretty slim, unless you happen to be the lucky first caller on the ad. If it really is a screaming deal, it'd have gotten snatched up in a jiffy.

Condition? That is about your standards vs. your wallet. Lower your expectations, and you'll be fine. Just because it is a few thou, doesn't mean it is going to be a perfect whatever. Heck, even new boats have problems. Even a boat in perfect condition is going to need maintenance. So, it is about how much work upfront vs. how many dollars. That's a range.

I like shiney pictures. Like you can tell more or less from the pictures if the seller is in the ball park for price vs. condition. If it is super shiney, and low priced, I always wonder "what's wrong with it that the pictures don't show?" Maybe it is just I've looked at a lot of boat pictures in my day, but you get a sense of where the market is at, and looking at boat pictures are my second favorite pictures to look at, it is part of the fun.

I'd try to get a couple boats to look at in one trip, get a comparison. One area or another might have a better selection, and that might be the first area to look at. Unless of course your dream boat pops up, then yeah, go look at it, another for due diligence, and then take the plunge on the dream boat.

If you find your dream boat, then take the search nation wide, see what other dream boats are selling for, what price they want for what condition, then see if the seller is on the money or not. The seller probably did that before they put a price on it.

Buying something like this is a risk. So is sailing in certain conditions. There's an inherent risk to this stuff, but there is a potential reward. Not monetary, expect to put 50% more than you paid for the boat into it, and sell it for half what you paid for it. But, as a pass time, as a metaphor for life, as something to give you skill and confidence in life in general, and as something fun to do.

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ez_as_31416@reddit

The key thing is you have to approach the boat ready to find flaws. Do not go with love in your eyes. Go like a forensic tax auditor looking over the books. Hard to do, but you'll thank yourself later.

I was already to buy my first boat when my banker (also a sailor) asked me about the type of rigging, the age of the sails, the type of hull. I'd fallen in love with a plywood homebuilt boat with galvanized rigging and sails from some other boat. (this was a long time ago). His questions helped me see I was about to make a big mistake, and helped me find my first boat, a beautiful wooden sloop. That was 50 years and many boats ago.

But looking, lusting and searching for the perfect boat for you, at this time in your life. That's almost as fun as sailing.

Enjoy the journey.

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40ozSmasher@reddit

I've heard of people having a boat inspected to see if it's worth a trip.

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Kpronline1@reddit (OP)

Makes sense for a larger purchase. I should’ve added to my post that I’m looking in the $5000 range (22’)

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40ozSmasher@reddit

So you are avoiding an inspection? So then obviously its going to be you asking for pictures, records, and history. Pay for eyes on. Request records. Or drive there. The fourth choice is you buy it and hope for the best.

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Kpronline1@reddit (OP)

I’m not against an inspection, but if I spend money on every boat I like to have inspected, remember I’ve never done this before, I’d have no money for the boat. I’m trying to narrow down my options with questions I don’t know to ask.

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40ozSmasher@reddit

You will be asking these questions to a person who wants to give the answers that make you buy it. "How many times have you run aground?"Never, only been in the water 3 times and just floated around for 30 minutes." Spend the money on inspection. If you cant afford 5 inspections, then you can't afford the boat.

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PracticalConjecture@reddit

The worst part about boat buying is that 80% of the boats on the market are crap, and there is often little/no price difference between the gems and the garbage.

Trust absolutely nothing a broker says. They're basically used car salesmen. Do trust marine surveyors, mechanics, and riggers.

I always ask sellers to list maintenance items they've done in the last year, as well as the age of the sails and standing rigging.

If the boat has had the oil changed, winches serviced, bottom cleaned regularly, rigging is < 15yr old, and sails are <10yr old, It's likely worth a look.

Even then, boat buying is a process... I looked at perhaps 8 boats before finding my current one (a very nice Dehler 29), with three of those requiring a flight, and one getting an offer (contingent on a survey which fortunately saved me from some big underlying issues). Ultimately, I'm happy I got the boat that I did, but man was it hard to find.

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Kpronline1@reddit (OP)

Thank you for the tips. To better understand my situation I’m looking for a 22’ in the $5000 range. I’d like to be able to keep it on the trailer in the off-season so hoping for one included

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PracticalConjecture@reddit

At $5k you'll probably want to skip the formal survey (likely around $400 for a boat that size). Unfortunately, that means that you become the surveyor, and need to really thoroughly look through a boat before you buy.

When you're looking at a boat as a buyer, your job is to talk yourself out of a boat. That can start by looking at a seller's photos and asking questions. Try to get a feel for the big ticket items- Sails ($2k for a set of new sails for a 22'er), rigging (another $1k...), and engine ($1.5k).

I always approach looking at a boat as a task that involves finding flaws and making a project list. What is broken/ needs fixing? What do I need to do to make the boat safe and suitable for what I want to do? How much will all that cost if I do the work myself? What about if I'm paying someone else to do it?

In a lot of cases, the project list for a cheap boat ends up costing more than the boat will ever be worth, and at that point it's best to walk away.

It's always better to buy a boat that's priced at the top of the market in situations where the previous owner kept the boat well and did everything to the boat that you would possibly want. You then get their work at a steep discount.

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-Maris-@reddit

If it’s not worth your time to drive then you aren’t interested.

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Kpronline1@reddit (OP)

I get what you’re saying, but if you’re gonna spend the day traveling to see a boat, you should at least ask some questions first to get an idea what you’re looking at.

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Whole-Quick@reddit

Suggestion: Before you make the drive, ask the seller for a live video tour. Zoom, What's App FaceTime, Facebook Messenger, whatever.

Ask the seller to zoom in on bulkheads, bilges, wiring, plumbing, ... everything.

It's not a substitute for an in person inspection before you buy, but you could really narrow down the boats that you want to see in person.

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-Maris-@reddit

Most 22 footers are very simple boats with few, if any, complicated systems, fair pricing will come down to current condition of the hull, gelcoat, sails, and rigging. Does it even have an engine to worry about? Most 22s don't have a single thru-hull. At the end of the day - unless the hull/mast is experiencig major failures - any failures you encounter, should be fairly easy DIY jobs.

You should already have enough details and pictures from the listing to ascertain the general condition and decide for yourself if the price is within the ball park of reason. If you need more intel, you should scour the internet (boattrader, facebook, craigslist) for as many comps as you can find to determine if their pricing is in alignment of what other boats of similar age/condition are asking. The seller is probably not going to say "There's a lot of issues, and by the way, I'm overpriced." They will say, "the boat is perfect, there's no known projects, I love sailing it so much, I would never sell it but my son's going to college..."

Go ahead and call the seller, ask your questions, but unless they wave a red flag in front of you (they won't), it's not going to save you any time on the road. Personally Inspecting the boat is still the next step. Consider that you can sit on the phone and ask questions of the seller all day long, but without getting onboard yourself, you are still just taking the someone's word for it. It is the buyers job to do the due diligence on the boat. The seller ethically should tell you any known issues, but its your job to go FIND them. So, go. Don't rely on the seller to do your job for you, the only guarantee there is that they WILL put their own interest first.

Exaggerating the duration of this "chore" may be tempering your enthusiasm: A two hour drive shouldn't take a full day of your time. It's actually it's just a half-day trip, think of it as a fun little adventure and send it. Aren't you a sailor?? Perhaps not yet. We crave little get aways, and ANY excuse to go look at another boat. And that right there is my main point. If you aren't excited enough about this boat to jump in to the car and drive a couple of hours to check it out - it's probably not for you. You just aren't that into it.

TLDR: If you don't have a few hours to go see aboat - how will you EVER find the time to use it.

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SpacePope5150@reddit

Buying a boat is a luxury item. It is not time sensitive. Have fun having the conversations and asking the questions. Bring a friend with and enjoy the process of a few hours drive.

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PrizeAnnual2101@reddit

Most boats will have a forum or owners group that will point out the warts in the brand

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Cun1muffins@reddit

First size of boat determines alot for your first (if your inexperienced) id reccomend and cheap daysailer with a trailer and running motor doesnt matter what it is its just for learning. If your experienced to some degree and getting a bigger boat its worth the trip everytime as lomg as its a good reputable brand of boat (high produced boats are generally terrible quality) and if you like what you see pay for the inspection trust me its worth it it could save you a massive headache

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Kpronline1@reddit (OP)

I’m looking for a 22, w/trailer in the $5000 range.

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Cun1muffins@reddit

Are you in an area with alot of shallow/Shoals? If so go for a shallow draft centerfold vessel nothing fixed

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Mythurin@reddit

I flew to 6 dozen airports and about 12 marinas. Absolutely the first step as mentioned.

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Kpronline1@reddit (OP)

Wow, that’s amazing. To add some context - I’m looking for a 22’ within the $5000 range.

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danielt1263@reddit

You could always buy brand new and have it shipped. Then you don't have to worry about it. 🧌

You likely will have to go smaller than you are currently looking though.

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Extreme_Map9543@reddit

What’s the cheapest brand new 30-35 foot sailboat. With potential for safe cruising ability?

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danielt1263@reddit

You can do a search to answer this question you know... Looks like the Beneteau Oceanis 30.1 or Hanse 315.

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PracticalConjecture@reddit

I've seen plenty of new boats full of problems from the factory.

IMO, the best boat to buy (if you want something new) is a 3-5 year old one where the prior owner had some sort of health issue/life change that forces them to sell. They get to sort out all the factory teething issues, and you save a boatload of depreciation.

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jlcnuke1@reddit

I'm currently browsing for a purchase later this year. Most of the boats I'm looking at are in another country, only 2 or three in the US I've found that interest me so far.

Unless you happen to live where a bunch of boats you're interested in are for sale, travel to check them out is gonna be a thing.

Things I'm planning to minimize wasted travel: 1. Get details from broker/seller. 2. Get good pics, a virtual walk through via video call would be ideal if it can be arranged. 3. Rank the boats - in going to make a spreadsheet with relevant info about the boats to rank which ones are most fitting for what I'm looking for, price for what I'm getting, as well as estimating costs each will likely need (10 years old will probably need some rigging, are the batteries old, will I want to add a solar arch or does it have one, etc.).