Audi sold 1,574 A7 class cars in the US in 2024. Despite how popular the styling is on here, nobody bought them.
Posted by Dazzling-Rooster2103@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 337 comments
Looking at the actual numbers of the Audi A7 class, which includes the A7, S7, and RS7, the sales for 2024 were just abysmal. 1574 units in 2024.
Comparing this to cars that have been critiqued for their styling endlessly on here like the BMW 5 series: 25,314 sales in 2024. BMW 7 series: 10,714 sales in 2024.
I think it is pretty funny, if a car is absolutely loved on here, it will probably end up not selling well, while cars that are loved sell like crap.
https://media.audiusa.com/releases/624
https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/usa/article/detail/T0447290EN_US/bmw-of-north-america-reports-q4-2024-u-s-sales-results-sets-new-benchmarks-for-annual-sales-and-bev-sales?language=en_US
Calm_Pass_4289@reddit
cool
Muttonboat@reddit
if a car is loved on release by r/cars they want someone else to buy so they can get one used.
then they lament companies killing cars when nobody buys them
StrangeSmellz@reddit
Why cant i have everything for $25 dollars?
wangchunge@reddit
Because its $30 plus T Tarriff!@
unique_ptr@reddit
This is such a circlejerk response.
reddit is primarily used by people aged 18-34 with rapid growth in the 18-24 demo. You think there's a huge overlap with reddit users and the people who can afford and buy $70k+ German luxury sedans? Where do you think the "I'll buy a used one" sentiment comes from!? Trying to find hypocrisy here is a pointless endeavor.
We're enthusiasts, the things that we appreciate about cars are not the same things that the broader market appreciates about cars. That's okay! You're not dumb for loving a car you could never afford and you're not responsible for it not selling well.
WordWithinTheWord@reddit
That’s exactly the commenters point though. This demographic of Reddit is not what keeps car companies afloat. But still is vocally critical despite not being a financial contributor to the new-car market.
Entire-Initiative-23@reddit
Yep. I make around 500k a year and I still pick carefully with my cars. My daily I just bought for under 55 and my fun car was around 85.
Like I am a single dude with a super high income who loves cars and I still wasn't going to 160 for a new RS7, as much as I think it's an awesome car.
sohcgt96@reddit
That's the thing, at the RS7's price point, even for people with the means to buy one that decision isn't going to be taken lightly. Just because people have a little money doesn't mean they're dumb or impulsive with it. (Well... most of the time) You look at all the options on the table and if you can afford a $160,000 vehicle, you have a hell of a lot of options. An RS7 is, at the end of the day, a compromise car. Its a big heavy luxury car upfitted for more power and to be more sporting. But is that result as satisfying as maybe something built to be a more sporting platform to being with like an M3/M4/Cayman etc which then would still even leave you spending less?
Entire-Initiative-23@reddit
Right the market is basically rich people who live in a big city and have limited parking space.
If I worked on Wall Street and lived in Manhattan with a wife and two kids and my condo had two parking spaces, I probably would have an RS7 or something similar. Something that could fit the family and the luggage for a weekend in the mountains or down the shore, but that was fun to drive.
But since I live in a much more typical American place, where someone of my income has a house with a garage, I have a daily and a fun car that costs less combined than the RS7.
sohcgt96@reddit
Exactly. I want my turbo V8 car but live in a place with snow and need to be able to have a nice hatch to throw in a stroller, diaper bag, and have room left to make a store run. I want the most awesome thing that does all that in one shot as a car: Boom, RS7 is a contender.
But if you are playing in that price range and don't live in town, you probably have enough garage spaces to get a dedicated sports car and a dedicated Dad-mobile.
GimmeChickenBlasters@reddit
Even if you live in some of the highest tax-burden areas of the US like NYC or CA you're still pulling around $310k net. Even if you only save 20% of that, which is $62k, that leaves you with $248k to blow annually on whatever the hell you want. You could buy a new RS7 every 5 years and it would practically make no difference on your savings, so I'm not sure what your point is. You're extremely frugal so everyone else should be too?
Thomas_633_Mk2@reddit
Maybe he just wants to save money faster? He might be focussed on building investments, or paying off his home ASAP
GimmeChickenBlasters@reddit
I covered all of those subjects. Literally all of them. Did you mean to respond to someone else?
NetworkStatic@reddit
Not sure why you got downvoted. I make around half of that and still am only buying used cars. Plenty of cars I've owned were only 2 years old and low mileage, some seemed new. Once I'll have all my retirement sorted I'll be willing to burn money on a new car.
_Winterspring_@reddit
What cars did you end up buying?
Entire-Initiative-23@reddit
I've got a Ranger and an M4. Ranger is new, M4 is used.
Porencephaly@reddit
I can afford an A7. I don’t buy one because I think it’s ugly af and I always have. Not everyone on Reddit loves the design, and not all non-buyers are only non-buying due to being too poor.
stav_and_nick@reddit
My issue is mainly that it's not just a preference. Preferences are fine! I know I have a lot of them!
What gets me is that this subreddit usually talks about its preference as the only way of doing things, that you're dumb or not a true enthusiast if you disagree
Which is the case with every subculture, but still
Silentkindfromsauna@reddit
And when a company like Jaguar has been doing bad for a long time they say that all they have to do is keep doing the same cars they're already doing, or sink billions into a hypercar project.
NCSUGrad2012@reddit
Jaguar does shitty because nobody wants to touch their awful electronics. They need to sink billions into their quality
poo_is_hilarious@reddit
I have a 2010 Jaguar XF and am now basically an auto electrician.
Joooooooosh@reddit
Land/Range Rover sales completely invalidate your argument.
Unreliable as fuck but they can’t make enough of them.
wtfomg01@reddit
Yeah, but they're cars bought by people with the money to afford them and the lack of understanding to think expensive = good.
gumol@reddit
so why aren't they buying Jaguars?
Carrisonfire@reddit
Because it's not a status symbol like a Range Rover is.
Supreme-Gucci-137@reddit
nah, Jaguar definitely is a high prestige brand.
Carrisonfire@reddit
Sure but they're not the same levels. It's like comparing a Cadillac Escalade to a G-Wagen.
BruteNugz@reddit
I believe the reason is because of how ford tarnished their reputation. When they rereleased the X type and everyone could afford them and they were huge pieces of shit.
Several_Leader_7140@reddit
Ford years were literally the only years they weren’t massive pieces of shits
intern_steve@reddit
Of course. It's Ford's fault that a British Leyland marque has a poor reputation for quality. If it weren't for Ford, Jaguar would have a positively sterling reputation for reliable electronics and forward thinking engineering.
Danny280zx@reddit
Hah!
Chllep@reddit
jaguar doesn't make SUVs
gumol@reddit
so the issue isn't reliability.
Joooooooosh@reddit
The F-Pace is the only car they still make.
But they used to make an E-Pace and EV I-Pace.
Chllep@reddit
i... might have completely forgotten those exist
really says how well they're doing
V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit
Because no more people buy sedan, wagon, coupe, and even roadster in these days, many people are buying SUV now.
Jag is placed as car brand to make different with Land Rover, so it means the brand unable to make nice SUV models.
apintofpantaloni@reddit
They are excellent vehicles though. You just don't use them the way they're supposed to be used, so it only seems expensive but useless to you. But if you do have the need for it's cross section of capabities - a Range Rover will wade through water 20cm deeper after a G-Wagen has died. I've taken mine to max wade depth and generally have to a couple of times a year. The rest of the time I have a family and dogs, horses, etc. We cover 3000km one way trips occasionally.
It's a fabulous thing that can do it all, and I frankly cannot name a single vehicle that can in this way. Urus/Bentayga/G/Cullinan are all in bracket but just can't work like a Range Rover can if you need to use all of it. That is impressive engineering to me - yes, expensive - but in this case also good. Just because it isn't used by the vast majority doesn't suddenly make it not very good!
Joooooooosh@reddit
Doesn’t matter to 99% of Rangey buyers.
It’s just a tasteful, large, practical car that has the right status symbolism attached to it.
Most SUV’s with tow a horse box. Any medium or large car has room for kids.
They are impressive cars besides the horrific reliability issues but the Bentaygas, G Wagons, Cayennes and BMW’s of the world are just a bit showy. Weird to call a Rangey subtle but they are much less try hard than most rivals.
It’s the Golf GTI of the rich.
apintofpantaloni@reddit
Yeah that’s literally my point. People don’t listen or read and keep talking about 99% of Range Rover buyers - that’s kinda exactly what I’m talking about. 99% of G and Urus owners don’t use them to their full capability - it does not make them any less good pieces of engineering. Same for pretty much most luxury items that are derived from utilitarian backgrounds I.e divers watches :)
AndroidUser37@reddit
What about the Ineos Grenadier? Or the Wrangler?
Thomas_633_Mk2@reddit
A Range Rover is a luxury car, they really ain't
the_silent_redditor@reddit
A lot of these folk are financed up to their eyeballs for the joy of driving those fucking headaches.
PossumImposter2@reddit
Dealer here.
I’d say 85% of our customers lease through their business without even knowing how much the payments are, and 10% pay cash. I’d say only 5% max finance their Rovers.
I’d say more than 50% have way nicer cars and the Range is just for something to drive their kids around in.
litlron@reddit
A pretty big part of this sub just can't comprehend the fact that a lot of people make much more money than they do. I work in a rich area. A huge portion of my customers wouldn't even notice the $1500~ per month lease payment for one of those pieces of shit. Their monthly luxury item budget is probably higher than that.
Salty-Dog-9398@reddit
Also in this case, people are unaware of the scale of tax fraud that the average small business owner in the USA does daily.
Almost all of the section 179 write offs or “business car” leases are primarily for personal use.
JournalistExpress292@reddit
That’s Reddit, you’d think an overwhelming majority of Americans are poor and suffering. It’s so surprising experiencing the real world (COVID hit freshman year of college so I was basically indoors) and seeing how much money people have.
The amount the of people I see and know that are out shopping, going to concerts, travelling, eating out and more crazy. I can’t even find people to cover my shift because everyone is busy - you’d think with the way you read about the economy online, people would drop everything they have to pick up more work and have more money in their pockets.
Entire-Initiative-23@reddit
Reddit has a good chunk of people who are overeducated and underemployed. When you got a masters but not the soft skills and work ethic to get a good job, you get very angry at the world.
I used to sell cars with a guy who was an absolute druggy. Like he was high all the time, constantly, unceasingly, endlessly. I mean seriously, visibly stoned at work all the time. He made about 40,000 dollars a month. Dude had an AMG G Wagon at home but most of the time he Ubered because his license was suspended.
There was no logical reason this guy could sell 50 or 60 cars a month, but he did.
cleverkid@reddit
Jesus, thats like 3 a day… he was an order-taker.
SNRatio@reddit
We're living in a new gilded age, so sure there's always someone in the Hermes and Rolex stores at the mall, and there are plenty of six figure cars in the parking garage.
I also see lots of people in homeless encampments.
Median income figures (household in the USA is $81k, median personal is $42k) are one way to stay grounded no matter what is trending on social media.
PossumImposter2@reddit
When I was sales person, someone bought a full size Range while he waited for his Cullinan to be built. When the Cullinan came in, he came back and just dropped off the Range, and left.
He didn’t want it anymore so he just… left it with us? We had to sell it on consignment and mail him a cheque and he was surprised.
rkhan7862@reddit
if only you could’ve pocketed it lol
Jazzlike_Cress6855@reddit
Land Rover managed to turn themselves into a popular culture choice. Celebrities drive them.
Jaguars are bought by your ageing uncle who is a bit too friendly with the wait staff.
They do not have the same marketing prestige. One is buying a car that is cool today, the other is buying a car that was cool in the 80's
No1Barang@reddit
The main issue with Jag is that they lost their bran identity when Tata took over, say what you will about the Ford mondeo/jaguar x and s types but at least they looked like Jags! With the distinctive front end the long swooping lines body style, apart from he F type all Tata jags look like generic cars and could be easily confused with a number of other vehicles
special_agent47@reddit
F Pace SVR still looks badass imo. Sounds badass too.
stav_and_nick@reddit
Nah, Land Rover is still shit reliability wise and they’re doing well
I think the big issue is that as SUVs take over the world, Jag needs a good one but they can never make a better SUV than Land Rover
It’d be better if the two were split, but no one wants jag without Land Rover
nlpnt@reddit
Their pivot to crossovers fell flat because they looked like cars that cost tens of thousands less. The first time I saw an E-Pace I thought I was looking at a Kia Sportage.
xsairon@reddit
Land Rover lives on hype and styling (interior is pretty good, exterior is up to you)
If the kardashians and a few big footballers started driving jaguars they would fly off lots with minimal investment
Its just isnt the case as its seen as an old man brand that people dont know... Even maseratti is quite popular in places like korea I think
stav_and_nick@reddit
Disagree; Rover works because it's completely based around being a luxurious experience with no pretense to sportiness, and who cares if it's unreliable if you're right, just buy 1 for each day of the week
If it was just paying celebs, the Cybertruck wouldn't be as much of a flop
I think Jag's issue is twofold:
1: Their SUVs can't be as good as Land Rover's because LR is where all profit goes in
2: Enthusiast and common reputation is "lol what a piece of shit"
R_V_Z@reddit
I mean, they do have that ridiculous 606hp version.
Omnivirus@reddit
I think this is off.
Rover works because it’s completely based around a luxurious experience but with historically legitimate off road bonafides. Whether they’re used for those purposes any longer isn’t even relevant.
xsairon@reddit
Dont think a land rover is that luxurious compared to a gle, x8 (is it the x8 the big chill one?), gls, cayenne or whatever
Top trim land rovers compete with basically maybachs or second hand cullinan/bentleys so yea idk if its only that
Also, land rovers are very much known for being utter shit by anyone with one (if they gotta pay for their repairs through work-earned money) or any knowledge about the brand, so jaguar would only need to clean up a bit to be on equal footing. They also got by far a better name and brand
OpneFall@reddit
Their electronics are/were Ford. I just changed a hood latch sensor today. FoMoCo on the part.
NeatlyCritical@reddit
Other then Hyundai, I can't think of many car companies that went from utter shit quality to even passable, it's very hard to do.
txmail@reddit
Electrical has not really been an issue since Tata took over. Look how many modern Jaguars you see for sale with 100k+ miles these days, they are pretty much all from the era after Tata took over. I think their biggest issue is plastic cooling pipes that need to be replaced, but that is also a LR/RR issue as well.
frog-hopper@reddit
Idk about the current version as a “cool car” but the 4G8 was pure sex. Plus the move to a turbocharged kinda threw me off. Had a supercharged B8 S4 and I couldn’t stick with Audi after.
RBeck@reddit
Someone once told me no one should buy a new car as it doesn't make sense. I told them we tried that in 2020 and it was a terrible idea.
gumby_twain@reddit
See also: station wagons with manual transmissions
bschmidt25@reddit
See also: diesel station wagons with manual transmissions
krinkov@reddit
yeah this is basically the "Circle Of Life" for not just r/cars but most "Car Guy" cars in this country. Everyone laments they don't sell them anymore even when nobody bought them when they were for sale in the first place.
Perfect example, the Nissan S14 240SX, which the last 2 years 97-98 "kouki" version is now the rarest and most desirable, guess why? Because nobody bought them! In the last year Nissan sold a grand total of around 2200 of them in the US, for the entire YEAR! In the same year Acura moved over 90,000 Integras in the U.S., but guys will still cry about why Nissan didn't bring the S15 over for sale here, but I mean, why would they??
https://www.hemmings.com/stories/1995-1998-nissan-240sx/
Ftpini@reddit
Some of us buy cool cars. But it’s a 2M member sub. It’s bound to have 1M+ lurkers who’ve never owned a new car at all, let alone a cool one.
beardtamer@reddit
Sorry I’m poor
FtDetrickVirus@reddit
I think they're lamenting the ridiculous prices for aluminum pieces of shit.
guy_incognito784@reddit
Just to add, they then won’t buy them used either.
Beencho@reddit
Which is why it makes sense to make low profit margin enthusiast cars to keep the brand energy alive, and high profit margin big, ugly fuckin things to keep the profits going.
Everyone needs a “gt86” in their lineup
Cloners_Coroner@reddit
While I agree with your sentiment, it feels like every company is being bought up by investors and having its management turned over to accountants. Not even just car companies, everything.
dynesor@reddit
Absolutely. There’s just no way I could afford a brand new car.
Kiwifrooots@reddit
Forum nerds =/= New car buyers. Forum nerds for the most part know what is good but the question is, what sells? Weird the biggest (largest) car type doesn't sell well in the States. Also reminds that cars are made for new car buyers and buying brand new is such high cost / poor value / less common so all car considerations are based around catering to this odd niche of buyer
Mythrilfan@reddit
Usually by saying "I would've bought the car if only it had this little extra thng" as if you'd only buy literally absolutely perfect cars.
Unoriginal-@reddit
This sub has been divorced from reality since about 2020, it’s usually not engaging anyone without a flair
Mercurydriver@reddit
For real. The people in this subreddit barely represent even 1% of the total car market. Nothing said here matches what the vast majority of car buyers want or choose to buy.
“We want manual transmissions”
Nope. 95% of people buying new cars don’t want it. I’m a car enthusiast and I don’t even want a stick shift in any of my daily drivers. I live in the NYC metropolitan area. I don’t feel like constantly changing gears every 30 seconds on the Staten Island Expressway or the Garden State Parkway.
“I don’t like touchscreens”
You don’t like touchscreens. Almost everyone I know loves them! They think it’s so cool and it makes their car look modern and futuristic. They love having a big screen with their maps and music playlists on it. Nobody wants to see a dashboard with 25 plastic buttons cluttered all over the place.
“Crossovers are stupid”
Not really. While I personally wouldn’t want to own one, I can see why most other people do. They’re comfortable, have a higher seating position (which makes them feel safer and more secure), and since most new car buyers are on the older side, they love the big doors so they can get in and out of their vehicles easier without bending down or crouching down into the vehicle.
Oh, and one more thing. Most people in this subreddit don’t even buy new cars. Why would any car company give a shit about a demographic of people that don’t even buy new cars in the first place? Car companies don’t care what the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th owner of the car thinks X years down the line. They care about the new car sales, to the 1st owner, today.
saints21@reddit
Yeah, crossover hate is dumb. They're practical. They're easy to get in and out of, have more room for hauling kids or things, and they get good gas mileage and usually have better visibility.
Do I want one? Only when I need more room for luggage or want to build more than two people in my four door sedan without an actual backseat.
But they still do what most people want them to do.
Wolfo93@reddit
Then why not buy estate/kombi? No petrol disadvantage, roomy and quieter on motorway
The_Commandant@reddit
If the person you’re responding to is in the US, that’s the reason: there are virtually no wagons (or even real hatchbacks) for sale in the US anymore. There are no mainstream/commodity brand wagons for sale here—literally none. The closest thing is the Subaru Outback, but that’s closer to a crossover. The Toyota Crown Signia is sort of a wagon, but it’s not a true wagon. There are a few luxury wagons, but several of those (A4 allroad, V60, V90) are being phased out here.
We have very few hatchbacks, too. The Civic is more of liftback, so that leaves the VW Golf, Toyota Corolla, Subaru Impreza, and…uhhh…I think that’s it. I think we’re going to get a Kia K4 Hatchback that actually looks pretty good, and there are some subcompact CUVs that are so small as to virtually be a hatchback (eg Ioniq 5, Kona, BMW X1), but they’re all marketed as crossovers and they aren’t as low as a true, traditional hatchback.
saints21@reddit
Big part of it is the US thing. Plus crossovers still usually have more room and better visibility. And the big one...they're still way easier to get in and out of. There's a ton of aged drivers who value the ability to just slide into and out of their vehicle more than just about any feature you can imagine. I'm 36 and in good health, climbing out of a low slung sports sedan or climbing into a lifted offroader isn't a big deal for me. For her? She hated my ZR2, Jeep, G70, and Alfa. The crossover she drives is way more appealing.
Enthusiasts acting like crossovers are some cardinal sin is just dumb. Enthusiasts just have different priorities from the massive majority of buyers.
rt80186@reddit
Read what you replied to, "They're easy to get in and out of ... have better visibility" compared to a sedan or wagon. The mileage difference is not large particularly at US petro costs.
Wolfo93@reddit
Easy to get in and out of? Cars you literally need to CLIMB into? My older aunt bought herself SUV and it't too high for her XD And visibility is just as bad, modern cars are bunkers. PR departments in the late 90 convinced americans that SUV is a pinnacle of everyday car and now you spread this tumor to the entire world
VirtueSignalLost@reddit
Most people still live in the 2010s. Touchscreens are so blase.
Whatcanyado420@reddit
There is no chance that touch screens with carplay and Android auto are going to go away.
VirtueSignalLost@reddit
That's doesn't mean that every function will be relegated to the touchscreen either. Use the touchscreen where it makes sense like inputting text on a virtual keyboard for example.
Whatcanyado420@reddit
There are plenty of cars available that "dont relegate every function to the touchscreen". I mean this is evident in most commuter cars like the modern Honda Civic.
VirtueSignalLost@reddit
On the other hand there are far too many cars with climate controls relegated to the touchscreen.
Supreme-Gucci-137@reddit
Touchscreens are freaking awesome and I am glad that they're in cars now, although I do agree that some functions must still be accessible by physical buttons. The days of button clutter and confusion are in the past now.
dattroll123@reddit
I agree mostly except the touchsreens. Touch only controls is stupid and unsafe. if it's illegal and unsafe to use a phone while driving, then why is it ok to have a giant touchscreen to access the car's function??
There's nothing "modern" and "futuristic" about touchscreens. It's just what manufacturers want you to think but in reality it's a cost saving measures as well as having access to more customer data.
rt80186@reddit
They are legal because they have a larger, they typically disable typing while in motion, have spots to brace your hand while using, and other usability improvements. I agree common features should have controls, but I'll give up infrequently used controls for a bigger map.
2005CrownVicP71@reddit
Modern: denoting a current or recent style.
Touchscreens quite literally are the definition of modern. Almost every single car has them now, as opposed to mostly analog controls a decade and a half ago.
su6oxone@reddit
Tired of the traffic excuse for avoiding manuals. People who are scared of driving manuals in traffic probably aren't good manual drivers to begin with. I've driven in traffic all the time with a manual when i lived in SF, Chicago, Boston, Brooklyn, Seattle, Baltimore and it's fine unless you're not really comfortable driving with a stick.
AvroVulcanXM594@reddit
You're swinging against the wind, though; most people on this subreddit are well aware that the cars they like don't sell well. People lament those cars going away because they think they're cool! This is an enthusiast subreddit, what's the point of bashing people for saying that they'd want those things? Sometimes you can't even walk into a thread without people bringing up the old tired "haha stupid enthusiasts wanting a brown manual wagon" point which might as well be a circlejerk of its own by now.
stav_and_nick@reddit
I think it's mostly just counter signaling; it's gotten a lot better nowadays, but it used to be near gospal in a lot of car groups that
1: If you didn't drive manual you weren't a real enthusiast
2: If you didn't reflexively shit on the target of the moment (crossovers, EVs, etc) you weren't a true enthusiast
Could just be growing up among a very JDM crowd, admittedly
MumpsyDaisy@reddit
"reddit is such an out of touch circlejerk, it would be better if the circle jerk reflected the exact same consensus that exists outside of reddit among the non-enthusiast general car buying public" and to what end...? so we could all have a fun time discussing buying brand new crossovers with big touch screens and how much we're all in agreement with everybody else?
Dazzling-Rooster2103@reddit (OP)
And now the G80 M3 has become one of the most popular cars on social media outside of reddit.
SwissMargiela@reddit
Whiteboy hellcat
Unoriginal-@reddit
lol the hellcat is white peoples hellcat, black people aren’t usually buying those full price either
VirtueSignalLost@reddit
Yeah they get those at a hefty discount...
to_the_victors_91@reddit
You got the stats to back that up big dog?
I’m legit curious.
WordWithinTheWord@reddit
Mopar finance department takes no prisoners
handymanshandle@reddit
These truly are European Hellcats. Seems like every day some idiot in a M3
emp_mei_is_bae@reddit
Fukboi hellcat
VirtueSignalLost@reddit
I hate the people this car attracts.
guy_incognito784@reddit
This sub also thought the Kia Stinger would be a run away success.
UnmakingTheBan2022@reddit
Ugly ass car, but you do you
TheReaperSovereign@reddit
I think bmw is on track for a 3rd consecutive record year this year despite the reddit warriors and tariffs.
Staplersarefun@reddit
This sub used to be the delusional American sub and /r/autos was the big automotive sub...not sure what happened but autos went away and now we're stuck with people who want 2003 hoopties and 911s exclusively.
ThorHammerslacks@reddit
These are enthusiasts on here, not the common clay of the new west
aviciiavbdeadpunk@reddit
TUNE AND DOWNPIPE LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
mr2600@reddit
The thing is even those who live there G80 will concede that they don’t like the front end. Two things can both be true.
Dazzling-Rooster2103@reddit (OP)
A lot of people absolutely love the front end, it is super aggressive and sporty.
kufflynx@reddit
Ugly af tho
Unoriginal-@reddit
Who cares about what you think tho
inlibrary_legsnumb@reddit
But who cares about what you think about what he thinks?
SnikySquirrel@reddit
Even outside of Reddit I have never seen people say they like the front end. Only people who tolerate it because the rest of the car is good. Even BMW is abandoning the design for the Neu Klasse.
Oil_McTexas@reddit
That’s not abandonment, it’s clockwork generational design transition.
Intel_Oil@reddit
Thats me.
Do i DESPISE the G80 frontend? Absolutely.
Do i plan to pickup a Touring M3 asap? Absolutely.
AntalRyder@reddit
I like it. And my own BMWs are 30+ years old. To each their own!
knight_prince_ace@reddit
*2015
hi_im_bored13@reddit
*dawn of time
strongmanass@reddit
The last real driver's cars were the Fred Flinstones era. Nothing will ever replace the response of your own two feet and the steering feel of stone in your hands. Real drivers back then had soles like leather and shoulders like boulders.
ZannX@reddit
By definition, this sub cannot love a car that sells well. Nothing to gatekeep.
SnikySquirrel@reddit
Idk, I think they like the Civic a lot
SquareTarbooj@reddit
From what I've gathered
Mazda = GOAT
Honda = Good
Toyota = dependable appliances
Ford = Focus
Kia = Stolen
Hyundai = I have never seen a member of this sub recommend a Hyundai, ever
Eggith@reddit
I see people recommending the N models every now and then. Specifically the i30, Veloster and Elantra. Basically the usual enthusiast stuff.
Tuxedo_Muffin@reddit
Full sized Hyundai are really good. Nobody believes it because of the compact car problems.
shot204@reddit
My 2025 Sante Fe is amazing and rides like a dream, punches way above its weight for a family hauler.
trail-g62Bim@reddit
I saw another commenter somewhere say that buying Hyundai was like playing the lottery -- you either one that dies at 20k miles or one that rattles on forever.
kartoffel_engr@reddit
My wife loves her Palisade for hauling around the kids. I’m a tall guy and I am comfortable in it. Plenty of power and space. Had her pick of almost any SUV and it’s what she wanted. I think now, she’d prefer something taller, but I’m going to remedy that with a lift kit.
trail-g62Bim@reddit
Don't they have EV issues as well? With ICCU?
NeatlyCritical@reddit
Genesis for the price is passable.
Capri280@reddit
r/cars loved hyundai a lot prior to the whole kia boys thing which lead to souring of public opinion on r/cars
Starbuckshakur@reddit
Nissan = We don't talk about Nissan
SquareTarbooj@reddit
Nah, I just remembered Nissan
Every once in a while, there'll be someone here who's dead broke, has terrible credit, already has a bunch of loans they can't pay off. This person's basically totally in the hole.
To that person, we recommend a Nissan.
NCSUGrad2012@reddit
My car only sold 3,000 when it was made. I can’t imagine there’s even 2000 left
arcticavanger@reddit
Rookie numbers mine is at 1399 total production lol
THE_GR8_MIKE@reddit
My shitty Dodge Dart Turbo was one of 450 or something in 2016. And it's still shitty.
arcticavanger@reddit
1 of 68 in 92 for mine lol
klonkish@reddit
is this a "1 of 5 made on a Tuesday above 60 degrees, 5 days after a full moon" corvette owner type of thing?
an_actual_lawyer@reddit
Try 950, worldwide.
For the fastest sedan on the planet for over 9 years.
Thomas_633_Mk2@reddit
I thought you were kidding but:
Lotus Carlton: 382 hp, 1990
Mercedes-Benz E 60 AMG 6.3: 399 hp, 1996, but unofficial
BMW M5: 394 hp, 1998
Audi A8 W12: 414hp, 2001
I might have missed something but the only other production sedan I can think of with 400hp from factory in the same era is the HSV GTS 300 in 2000, and that's even more limited than the Carlton.
an_actual_lawyer@reddit
The M5 and E60 might have been faster, but they were limited to 155 from the factory. AMG would certainly have removed the limiter if you paid for it. In those days they'd do just about anything the customer was willing to pay for.
Thomas_633_Mk2@reddit
Yeah, I didn't even try and find top speeds for all of them. My hunch is that none of those cars would win in top speed (the Commodore is an aerodynamic brick despite its curved design, the other three are speed limited)
Roboticpoultry@reddit
And here I am thinking 11k was a dud (2011 CRZ, best car I ever owned)
an_actual_lawyer@reddit
Sub loves the Camry and Corolla as appliance level vehicles. For folks that just want a realiautomobile, they're great picks.
ggtsu_00@reddit
Who here hating on the 'rolla/civic?
dynesor@reddit
Miatas still sell pretty well though
NeatlyCritical@reddit
Well if you want reliable, sporty and the headache free quality of a Civic you have two choices a Miata or a BRZ/GR86
swampfox94@reddit
That’s cuz most this sub is poor and that’s the only sports car they can afford. (I own a Miata it’s great)
ArdillasVoladoras@reddit
Love my MDX at least, I do not regret leaving Audis/VWs
fssbmule1@reddit
People only love the A7 styling because it looks nice from the outside. You can tell they've never driven one, certainly not lived with one as a family vehicle. The car is unforgivably cramped given its large exterior footprint, especially in the back seat. With an average male driver, the front seat back is almost touching the rear seat bottom. It is truly coupe-like in packaging.
The style is good and has been copied widely (Honda Accord), but it's still not as cool as a 2 door while not as practical as a true sedan. If you actually plan to use the back seats (why else would you get a 4 door car) it's really not a good choice.
Ministry_Of_Talent@reddit
This is total bullshit. Here's a reviewer that's 6' tall and there's plenty of room in the back. https://youtu.be/qayXV5ih-rk?si=ti5Ead8nKkHCkyUu&t=181
fssbmule1@reddit
🙄 https://imgur.com/a/oCi9U7d
Here is my S7, with the driver seat set for my 5'4" wife. There is barely enough rear legroom for a child (regular trucker hat for scale). I'm 5'11", when the seat is set for me, there's not even enough legroom for my 8 yr old. He literally has to sit cross legged to fit.
Why do people feel the need to tell me shit about my own car?
Ministry_Of_Talent@reddit
I own a 2025 S7 and am 6'1. So why do people need to bullshit me about my own car?
This is as much or more than comparable mid-sized cars. Facts.
fssbmule1@reddit
Pics or it didn't happen.
Ministry_Of_Talent@reddit
What are you 12? I already showed you a video and dimensions of mid-sized vehicles proving you wrong. Are you going to say you didn't even sit in the car before buying it? You'd have to move into a full size car like an A8, 7 series or S class to get more rear leg room. The S7 is comparable to other mid-sized cars and SUVs. Take the L and move on champ.
fssbmule1@reddit
I own the car, I shared my personal experience, I showed photo evidence.
You on the other hand linked some rando YouTube video and some stats from chatgpt. Yawn. You probably don't even have the car and are just another Internet nobody.
Ministry_Of_Talent@reddit
Yeah some rando on youtube that happens to have almost 800K subscribers. And chatgpt numbers that you can't refute. Go look up the official Audi numbers and prove me wrong. Oh, you can't. So resort to the tired "you probably don't even own the car" taunt. LOL. Loser.
fssbmule1@reddit
I have the car, I don't have to prove anything. I'm just sharing my actual experience.
Why would anyone care what you have to say?
Ministry_Of_Talent@reddit
You seem to care what I have to say. You keep replying. But I've figured out how we can both be right: obese people will move the seat back further than normal people at the same height due to their girth pushing them forward of the seat. So that explains it.
fssbmule1@reddit
Lol
Ministry_Of_Talent@reddit
I own a 2025 S7 and am 6'1. So why do people need to bullshit me about my own car?
This is as much or more than comparable mid-sized cars. Facts.
IAMA_Madmartigan@reddit
You seem to be completely discounting the utility of it being a lift back though, as you didn’t mention that at all. Also I’m over 6 ft and my seat isn’t “almost touching” the rear seat bottom in my S7
fssbmule1@reddit
Pic please, show us the rear legroom in your car.
ZoomZoomDiva@reddit
Which is interesting because Volkswagen can design an extremely roomy liftback. They proved this with the Arteon.
NoAppearance4943@reddit
I mean it’s a 6-7 year old platform now they aren’t gonna sell like the much newer 5 or 7, they were doing 8-10k a year in 2015-18. But also the 5 is a major lease seller whereas the a7 never was.
itsamemarioscousin@reddit
BMW sold 11k 7ers in the US last year!?!!
Dazzling-Rooster2103@reddit (OP)
Yep, haha.
It is an amazing car that is super luxurious, reliable, stands out, turns heads, and is a status symbol.
mishap1@reddit
Baby Rolls Royce at this point.
agnaddthddude@reddit
the 7 series has a strip club as an interior. very few buttons as well. also, it’s very hostile looking from the inside too.
walnut100@reddit
Nah the S580 is the strip club car of this generation.
agnaddthddude@reddit
you say that but at least it doesn’t have that one giant light strip across the dashboard
walnut100@reddit
Nah but it has all this.
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/8dnZyb_o_Dc/maxresdefault.jpg
VirtueSignalLost@reddit
It attracts the strip club clientele too. It's a pretty significant demographic with plenty of disposable cash.
allgasnoshit@reddit
I hate the damn things. Objectively, they’re great cars. I’m not trying to say they’re not. But holy shit are they ugly. It kind of looks like what a 12 year old would think of when you ask them “What would a rich man drive?”. They’re not dignified or elegant in any way like a full-sized luxury car should be.
People with this kind of money seem to want that “Look at me!” appearance that a current 7er provides, because all of the more understated cars are selling horrifically. About 1600 A8s, 2100 LS 500s and 1500 Genesis G90s were sold last year. You could combine the total sales of those cars AND add in the last 3100 Cadillac CT6s sold in 2020 and still be about 3000 cars short compared to the 7er.
VirtueSignalLost@reddit
I suppose the people into stealth wealth just get a driver with a black Escalade.
Nyxlo@reddit
Did you just seriously call Genesis G90 understated?
allgasnoshit@reddit
Compared to a modern 7 Series, yes.
gadgetluva@reddit
Do you have the wealth or income to buy or lease a new 7 series? Are you in the market for a full size executive sedan?
get_me_ted_striker@reddit
I am, my lease on my $132k MSRP executive sedan is up in a couple months. 7 is a no-go for me due to the ghastly front end. Just not something I’d be proud to drive.
gadgetluva@reddit
Yea, I think it’s ugly too. But I think it’s in poor taste to judge people who have the money to buy said 7 series and lumping them all into the same group of people who feel a need to project wealth. But maybe the kid is right - is that what you feel like you need to do since you have an $132k MSRP executive sedan? Is it all about projecting a certain image? As someone who has a $213,000 MSRP garage, I don’t think it is, but maybe you disagree.
allgasnoshit@reddit
No. That doesn’t mean I can’t think it’s an ugly car.
gadgetluva@reddit
That wasn’t my point. My point is that the car doesn’t appeal to you because it’s not a car that you’re even close to being in the market to buy. Ie you’re not the target demographic for the car
You can think the car is ugly. But saying all of that other shit is a bad look because you seem to be a young kid who has the world figured out, but you haven’t even entered the full time work force yet. Grow up a little bit first lil bro.
birdseye-maple@reddit
What a bunch of bs, I can afford said car and am in the market and I think it is ugly.
gadgetluva@reddit
I don’t have a problem with people thinking the car is ugly. I had a problem with the attitude the guy has about people who are in the market for a 7.
AAMCcansuckmydick@reddit
Nah, you just described the S-class lol.
Dazzling-Rooster2103@reddit (OP)
Does the S Class have a flat screen TV in the back?
AAMCcansuckmydick@reddit
Lmaoo is that your only metric?! The s-class doesn’t need gimmicks with 55” tvs.
If we’re being honest here, the s class is and will always be above the 7 series and A8 in terms of status and prestige in this luxury segment.
kinda_guilty@reddit
"Status and prestige" is subjective, but in terms of cold hard cash, the 7 series has been crushing them both in recent years.
handymanshandle@reddit
Yeah look, I know you're trying to make a point about the S-class over the 7 series, but to say they don't need gimmicks is one hell of a lie. There's a reason it has a metric shit load of interior lighting and interesting curved screens all across the front of the dashboard.
agnaddthddude@reddit
W222 generation was indeed the superior car between the 3 german giants. the New 7 series however is up there alone. the S class is horrible. doesn’t offer anything luxurious until the maybach trims. even then you just get automatic closing doors, two tone paint job, and longer wheel base. apart from the last point all of the other points exists in the 7er.
I test drove a M780 or maybe it was a M760? (Im not a BMW guy, you can tell when i don’t even know the model generation name) anyway the V8 in the 7er was far more superior engine, driving dynamics was also far more superior too. the individual blue colour it was painted in was absolutely stunning.
the W223 S580 was horrible in comparison.
i didn’t like the BMW interior, so went ahead and got myself another low mileage W222 maybach.
moldy912@reddit
To me, it has the best interior out of the S class and S8. I don’t love the exterior but I would get it for the interior features alone.
rosen380@reddit
My dad got one, replacing his Continental GTC... latter was a money pit, but a pretty sick car.
strongmanass@reddit
For all the vitriol it gets on car forums it's an excellent car. It's outselling the S-class. IIRC the last time it did that consistently was the last time it was controversial - the Chris Bangle E65 with the Bangle butt that was actually principally designed by Adrian van Hooydonk who just happens to be had of design for the whole group now.
stav_and_nick@reddit
It’s just a fantastic place to be and it’s actually pretty nice to drive. Idk what deal with Satan the engineers did, but the turning radius feels like black magic
mini4x@reddit
Take s look at the front suspension... They have like 12 ball joints.
gdnws@reddit
From what I can find, it is 3 per side for the front. Not the simplest in the world but not monumentally complicated either and very similar component count wise to what you would get in the 5 series and similar cars. 1 fewer ball joints per side than what Audi tends to do on their front suspensions.
mini4x@reddit
I just remember seeing the front suspension on one awhile back and there were so many arms and links it was mind boggling.
strongmanass@reddit
I was genuinely shocked when I did a U-turn in it. I initially swung wide because of how long it is, but I ended up having to ease the steering lock to avoid hitting the median separating me from the lane I had just left. The whole time I was thinking it shouldn't be able to do that. And the biggest accomplishment is the rear wheel steering doesn't feel weird. It feels more natural than in the 8 series.
strongmanass@reddit
I was genuinely shocked when I did a U-turn in it. I initially swung wide because of how long it is, but then it just went around and I had to use less lock to not hit the median separating me from the lane I had just left. The whole time I was thinking it shouldn't be able to do that. And the biggest accomplishment is it doesn't feel weird. It feels more natural than in the 8 series.
gdnws@reddit
I was under the impression that the vitriol was generally directed at its looks and that otherwise it was considered as quite good. Similarly I don't think there is a particularly good way of isolating whether its looks are helping or hindering its sales numbers. With the M3, I've seen some people say they bought it because of the looks and some in spite of the looks. I can imagine that there is a similar thing happening with the 7 series.
itsamemarioscousin@reddit
Fair, just very good numbers all in all. Someone else listed off the A8 and LS500 as around 1500 units a piece, that's kinda where I thought the 7 series would be. Instead the i7 has outsold the pair of them combined, not to mind the rest of the 7 series.
V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit
S class and BMW 7 are same like Camry and Accord, both sedan still catch most sedan buyers in America by prestige although more limo buyers are going large luxury SUVs.
emp_mei_is_bae@reddit
I don’t ever remember anyone even mentioning the a7 until now
Jah348@reddit
I was going to say the same thing. Who the hell loves the A7? At best it's a mildly favored design.
Jigagug@reddit
Also it's HUGE, anyone who wants that styling and an actually useful sporty car is getting an A5 for less than half the price.
tablesheep@reddit
Or an S5
sohcgt96@reddit
Guy I used to work with has an S7 and don't get me wrong, V8 sounds.
But its not a great value proposition against an S5 sportback that's going to cost a lot less to own.
cubs223425@reddit
My sister's got one and loves it. I'm not a fan myself though. Every Audi I get in, the roof feels too low, and I don't care for the interior layout (especially the reliance on piano black and screens).
Boostedprius@reddit
I might be exposing myself as an unc now but y'all don't remember the revelation the 1st gen A7 was in the 2010s when it came out. People were obsessed with the design
ASource3511@reddit
It was a crazy good looking car that has aged really well, it was a proper contender for the new 4 door coupe meta against the CLS. When the A5 came out a few years prior it was also a revelation and BMW has copied the naming convention to upsell their coupes.
Boostedprius@reddit
I remember I must've been in high school, and I was blown away by the Audis of that gen. Convinced my parents to buy a C6 A6 that has still held up so well over a decade later. Damn shame what Audi has become nowadays
NuTrumpism@reddit
I’ve never heard anyone ever be interested in one, internet or irl
m0viestar@reddit
Maybe not the A7 specifically, but this sub definitely hypes up sedans as one of the best vehicles, better than crossovers and maybe one step down from Brown manual diesel wagons. .
to_the_victors_91@reddit
Crossovers are lame. Whether or not they are popular with the masses is irrelevant.
m0viestar@reddit
Then being popular with the masses is extremely relevant because manufacturers will discontinue sedans that aren't selling well.
ASAP_Dom@reddit
Of course, this is r/cars.
Not r/crossovers
birdseye-maple@reddit
Op is enjoying a nice strawman while a surprising number of people are going along with it.
degggendorf@reddit
Yeah for sure. I do remember people saying things like "the A7 is the most beautiful car for sale" which now OP (and many others itt) is misrepresenting as "I am buying an A7 for myself and it's going to be a mass market smash hit".
It's the same bullshit toxic masculinity competitiveness where they have to believe everyone else is dumb so they can feel smart.
Iplay1965jaguar@reddit
Redditos have a hate boner for other redditors, not realizing they are literally the average redditor. “I am not like them!”
V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit
There were many decent sedan and coupe models been forgotten until automakers killed it.
Tonyn15665@reddit
Its not a darling but car enthusiast always dream about wagon and the sportback of the A7 was a close alternative (PS: wagon sells like shit every where as well, probably precisely because enthusiasts love it haha)
8N-QTTRO@reddit
There was a while where wagons were seen as "dad cars" by most people, even enthusiasts. Nowadays minivans have taken up that spot, so wagons have been "cool" among enthusiasts again - but enthusiast appreciation is not why wagons don't sell well. It's because a lot of people see them as the boring, utilitarian cars their parents and grandparents drove.
memymomeddit@reddit
That should tell you something about how much attention to pay to what internet enthusiast forums think about the market.
Effective_Mess2597@reddit
lol Jaguar's plan is either keep making the same stuff or throw billions at a hypercar. Not great options.
Due-Comment-3640@reddit
Online hype and real sales are totally different things. Is the A7 struggling because of its price?
strongmanass@reddit
AFAIK the A7 is the worst performer in the segment, but the segment is extremely niche. It's a German invention - sleek sloping tear drop shaped sedans that sit between mid-size and full-size (between E-class and S-class) in size and luxury. It's ostensible the driver-focused S-class alternative. I just call them "4 door grand tourers." And at least two of them are 4 door versions of a traditional grand touring coupé. Anyway, the segment is the A/S/RS7, Porsche Panamera, Mercedes AMG GT 4 door which took over from the CLS, and the BMW 8 series gran coupé.
Porsche sold about 4000 Panameras in the US last year.
V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit
Still don't get any point to buy these 4-door coupe. Just for that liftback design ? It doesn't make much sense.
Of corse, it's same problem in coupe style crossover models.
Talbot_Horizon@reddit
So called liftback designs were all the rage in the 70s. The Rover SD1, VW Passat B1 and B2, Simca/Talbot/Chrysler 1307, Audi 100 avant. Just to name a few.
It looks nice, more practical than the sedan version because of the 5th door. But it doesn't have the utilitarian wagon association.
strongmanass@reddit
I'd be surprised if anyone with those cars has adults in the back regularly. I think the appeal is just a sleek, stylish driver-focused executive luxury car. And if you need someone in the back occasionally it's more practical than a coupé.
lBlackfeatherl@reddit
Ya this. Idk why OP is comparing the A7 to the 5 series and A6. Now the A6 isnt doing too well either but not for any of the reasons OP stated but for the fact that its almost a decade old and the new model is just coming in.
allgasnoshit@reddit
Hang on, 10,000 Lucid Airs? I’m surprised they’re selling that well. Good for them
handymanshandle@reddit
I'm not that surprised personally. I see a fair few of them in the nicer parts of North Alabama.
_Winterspring_@reddit
I'm seeing more and more in the Bay Area, where Teslurs are about as common as Civics.
strongmanass@reddit
Yeah 2024 was a huge increase over 2023. 10K units in that segment is really good. Lucid is being really aggressive with lease deals right now so that helps a lot (~$579 a month IIRC), but still it's good for them. I hope they make it.
Wolfo93@reddit
We call that type of cars fastback in Europe. Very characteristic single slope from roof to back and distinctive from a more sport oriented coupe. Definitely they are not sedans!they are 2 not 3 box shaped and have a normal 5th door into boot not just metal small opening like useles sedans
porterbrown@reddit
Not one mention of price? Too much $.
VirtueSignalLost@reddit
As a 5 series owner, I don't have an explanation. The A7 range is fantastic. The only reason I haven't bought an RS7 is because it was impossible to get an location during covid and you can't really drift them like you can an M5. They are great cars though, much better build quality, nicer design, etc.
jermainiac007@reddit
people have no taste in cars, buying disgusting SUVs and crossovers so go figure.
truthdoctor@reddit
Listening to this sub would bankrupt every manufacturer on the planet.
turb0_encapsulator@reddit
Audi doesn't seem to sell many sedans in the US above the A5 anymore. This is also true for other luxury brands like Lexus. The vast majority of large luxury vehicles sold in the US are SUVs.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g64589009/bestselling-luxury-cars-2025/
thefanciestcat@reddit
There's lots of very nice things I probably wouldn't buy. The A7 is on that list.
TS040@reddit
I mean it’s not like the A7 was a cheap, easily accessible car lol
Dazzling-Rooster2103@reddit (OP)
Neither is a car like the 7 series, or the 8 series, both are >$90k starting, but outsell the A7 by multiple times.
Vesploogie@reddit
And nobody on /r/cars is buying any of them.
agnaddthddude@reddit
no body on r/cars buys anything in general. this subs most beloved cars are the worst selling in real world
mini4x@reddit
80k cheaper than most midsize SUVs.
nimama3233@reddit
Wut
SchemeShoddy4528@reddit
Bro it’s reddit
testthrowawayzz@reddit
If I wanted a sedan, I would opt for something that's more traditionally shaped than a fastback that cuts off rear headroom and trunk practicality
Intelligent_Top_328@reddit
How could Elon do this
PersonalBrowser@reddit
The first thing I learned about r/cars is that they have absolutely no fucking clue what the American market wants. It represents like 0.000000001% of American car buyers, and like 0.00000000000000001% of new car buyers.
Literally take everything that r/cars says and the opposite will be true.
Like people here are SHOCKED that Lotus doesn’t sell well, while acting like large trucks are gonna be obsolete in a few years.
india2wallst@reddit
People who spend upwards of 100k CAD on a Sportback sedan are very rare.
bobj33@reddit
I love the A7, S7, and especially the RS7. I get excited when I see one because it looks so cool. But I don't see myself every buying one.
redskellington@reddit
Oh that's because the r/cars group is a tiny angry little group of broke people who don't buy cars but who love to proclaim what cars other people should buy.
;)
mishap1@reddit
It's a car that starts at over $70k while having the same interior volume as a BMW 3 Series. I like the uniqueness of Audi but you're at $100k+ for the nicer trims. It also launched in 2017/2018 so it's getting ancient by car standards.
youreloser@reddit
Is it the Sportback roofline that cuts interior space or is it just a small car. When I see them on the road or parked, they seem very long.
DodgerBlueRobert1@reddit
They have a small interior for how large they are on the outside. It's a form over function design. But they're the exact same length as the Accord, and just 2" longer than the Camry.
rosen380@reddit
Is the engine setback a bit to get closer to a 50/50 weight distribution? That is a "good" way to end up with a big car that is still cramped.
youreloser@reddit
Audi engines are actually ahead of the front axle, hence "Audisteer". This is done to create a symmetrical AWD drivetrain.
burtmacklin15@reddit
Well, kinda symmetrical. Default torque split on Audi's longitudinal AWD platform is 40:60 (front:rear) with the ability to vary it between 70:30 and 20:80 through a Torsen diff.
DodgerBlueRobert1@reddit
I'm not sure, but it does have a longitudinal engine.
mishap1@reddit
It's the roofline. It's almost the same length/width as the A6 and is about 4cf smaller inside. The A6 starts about $10k cheaper with the same engine.
Twin_Turbo@reddit
not to mention their depreciation
impossibleis7@reddit
I really dont get the obsession with SUV (cross overs, pickup trucks etc). They look ugly for starters. If safety is the reason what are you going to drive when everyone else is driving one too? If practicality is the reason, I think for a majority, cars work just fine. I have never had anything i couldn't put in my car, that would fit inside an SUV.
Jlx_27@reddit
Audi is going bust if they dont turn everything around, styling, performance, quality..... etc.
Ministry_Of_Talent@reddit
I was 1 of the 1574. It's a GREAT sporty, luxury GT cruiser with sexy lines and practicality. I chose it over an 8 series since the interior was exactly like my X3M Comp and looked downmarket. Didn't even bother with a 5 series since it looks stupid both inside and out.
As to why BMW sold more? Probably because A7 and S7 are \~$10K overpriced. Also, one can easily get a 10% discount on a 5 series and 15%+ discount on a 7/8 series whereas most Audi dealers won't budge off MSRP.
glizzytwister@reddit
That's because this subreddit is fucking dumb and broke as hell.
Most of the people here want cool cars, but they can't afford them. The idiots saying "hurr durr if they just made a manual wagon I'd buy it!" would never actually buy it, they'd buy a used base model Mazda 3 because that's all they can afford.
And the ones who could afford that weird 'driver's car' wouldn't buy it either, because a crossover makes much more sense for driving the kids around.
apex_super_predator@reddit
Simply put they are too expensive. Nice looking ride, but only a few can afford it. The bean counters don't like it when all those numbers don't add up
cubs223425@reddit
I love how many of the top comments are this moronically englightened "this sub doesn't know what sells," like those people aren't the top comments of the sub most of the time...
edokko_spirit@reddit
Nobody buys a 70K car just because of the styling
CUvinny@reddit
A7 is in a weird spot where if you want a luxery limo you go up to a A8. If you want a sports sedan the A5 sport back is right there with a similar swooping profile but a small car that costs significantly less.
That said the RS7 is a sick car.
bigchilla777@reddit
Audi made ugly cars for years before BMW
BMW just so happens to actually be good at building cars
NeatlyCritical@reddit
Of the german brands yes but Audi has not mad ugly cars in a while.
bigchilla777@reddit
don’t get me wrong, it’s subjective
imo giant the grille looks stupid on pretty much anything but trucks lol
NeatlyCritical@reddit
Of course for me (german brands) Mercedes makes the best looking but shit quality, Audi makes second best looking, tiny bit less shit quality, BMW makes best quality by far and most satisfyingly to actually own but man are they beyond ugly. But by the looks of it New Klasse will actually bump their looks up to at least Audi level so only thing that would hold me back from buying BMW would be the repair costs which killed me on my 3 series and that was just basic maintenance nothing ever went wrong with it.
Armyed1776@reddit
That’s because BMW is crushing the market and taking all of the sales
NeatlyCritical@reddit
Even they are exiting the segment tough the 8 series is also cancelled.
fuck_the_mods@reddit
Your comps are off. The 5 series is way cheaper and the 7 series competes against the A8.
Dazzling-Rooster2103@reddit (OP)
Ok!
Let's compare it to the 8 series, which is about $20k+ more expensive, and is also being discontinued soon, and is also pretty dated.
5345 sales in 2024.
So over 3x more sales.
NeatlyCritical@reddit
Yeah the A7 competes against the 8 series (Gran Coupe) and the MB CLS, the CLS is already dead and the 8 series dies next year, so writing was on the wall for the entire segment of coupy executive sized four door cars.
AAMCcansuckmydick@reddit
The 8 series/rebadged 6 series was massively discounted because it was always a sales disaster and was inevitably going to be discontinued.
hi_im_bored13@reddit
that is including both the coupe & cabrio, whereas the a7 is equivalent to only the gran cabrio its also not outright discontinued in the sense its getting replaced by the 6-series (6->8->6). the mercedes gt 4-door did 2,092 sales in '23, albeit double that in '24
And that is sticking around, as is the RS7
NeatlyCritical@reddit
People often overestimate sports cars and sedans, and not just in the US but around the world the crossover, suv, hatchbacks and wagons and pickups completely dominate and for global companies that's where the R&D dollars and production capacity have to go. Even great selling sedans like Camry and Accord are half of what they used to be.
Low-Umpire236@reddit
I prefer to avoid $120,000 debt.
GtrplayerII@reddit
I love the A7...I can't afford the A7. That's the reality.
The general buying population that can afford to lease or buy that class of car is going to go to BMW and Mercedes before they go to Audi. Just on brand recognition and panache alone.
hi_im_bored13@reddit
I'm just wondering who absolutely loved the a7-class, people will miss it because of course they will, but apart from the rs7 it wasn't anything special, tarted up a6 which itself felt dated
MumpsyDaisy@reddit
Literally somebody just felt the need to make a whole new thread to tell everybody how misguided they are because in the thread on the A7's cancellation some people were upvoting a comment that it was a nice looking car.
That's pretty much it.
gdnws@reddit
Nor do I recall seeing the styling in particular being praised; the only time I can think of that I've seen it mentioned was how the rear end is droopy looking. And even then it was only once or twice and probably almost a decade ago.
acog@reddit
And they’re going to continue to sell the RS7.
gladdy02@reddit
If auto companies listened to the thoughts and opinions of people on the Internet/ forums, they would all be out of business.
There are a lot of very opinionated "auto enthusiasts" voices on the Internet, but when it's THEIR money on the line, they are often buying the CUV's that they typically decry on here 😂
Miserable-Assistant3@reddit
It’s a seven year old chassis. No wonder Benz discontinued the CLS. Four door coupes are dying. 8-Series GC will follow soon.
Ifailedaccounting@reddit
I think this thread reps the real world well in some ways. All drive Toyotas and beaters because they supposedly are the only cars that work but all yearn for a sports car and will buy it once it’s super cheap.
The-Ol-Razzle-Dazle@reddit
My problem with them is how hard the depreciation hits and how expensive they are to maintain. They are just a bit too complicated for most blue collar indies and the dealerships charge so much you might as well have gotten a Porsche
the_old_coday182@reddit
Welcome to what it’s like for Jaguar and Alfa Romeo.
m3n00bz@reddit
I love the RS7. I'm not paying 140k for one.
skepticaljesus@reddit
I have never seen a single person make a positive comment about the A7 here, and in general the sub seems really negative about Audi styling.
I agree that beloved on the sub and beloved by the public are different concepts, but is the A7 really an example of that? It's not a brown manual wagon.
UnmakingTheBan2022@reddit
It’s typical Reddit. They are the minority. Always voicing their opinions, but rarely can back anything up. Common amongst popular subreddits.
Blknyt_eclipsedmoon@reddit
I like the styling on Audis, but they have always had problems with reliability. I don’t want to pay more for a less reliable car.
amppy808@reddit
Maybe the accountants were right this whole time!
MisterQureshi@reddit
It’s overpriced. The RS7 should be cross shopped with the other cars in its class but it’s consistently the most expensive.
_alco_@reddit
Something you need to understand about the people on /r/Cars is that we care about things your average car buyer simply does not care about. The average person cares more about brand cache, price/value, comfort, and practicality than we do. Perhaps the only realm of overlap we have with the average car buyer is caring about reliability.
We would be willing to throw all of those things out the window and would be metaphorically lining up to buy something like the Alfa Romeo 4C if Mazda made it. Most of the rest of the world would not - because they can't put their family or bags in the back, or like to sit up higher for a better view of the road, or use their car on surfaces that are anything other than asphalt/concrete.
The problem is that even if WE all lined up to buy this Mazda 4C, we are the minority. Most people aren't "car people" (in the same way that we're not "washing machine" people). The car is an appliance and a means to an end, and when they ship cars, they're just trying to make sure it checks off all the boxes on a very practical checklist. So /r/Cars doesn't get to decide what sells well. Instead, /r/Cars gets to decide what cars do a great job of checking off a very different type of checklist than the average person uses, and maybe those cars get a small sales boost.
RollofDuctTape@reddit
Kind of bummed. But I bought my RS7 after it was sitting at a dealership for over 150 days so I’m not surprised. Got a good deal on it too, probably because of it.
JDMClassics@reddit
Hardcore enthusiasts in every hobby tend to diverge from mainstream consumers in their tastes. This isn't exclusive to cars, and I'm not sure why this subreddit is perpetually bemused by it.
dqrules11@reddit
It's because there are only so many people who can afford them, and a lot of the people who can have bad taste.
4a4a@reddit
I think the A7 is the ugliest car Audi has ever produced, by far. So I guess I agree with the normies out there. The MB CLS has the same issue. I don't get the appeal.
gautamb0@reddit
The s7 was a close runner up to the m550i I ended up buying. On occasion I wish I had the trunk space. Otherwise, very nice car, but everything about the bmw was a bit better. The exhaust note, seat comfort, and spaciousness, especially the rear. The Audi also cost quite a bit more from what I recall. It’s a big, heavy car and doesn’t let you forget it. Very narrow niche vehicle. Luxury sedans at this level are niche altogether and tough to sell.
By contrast, the q7 sells literally 10x. Wheelbase is about the same length, it’s not that much heavier, gives you a third row and much more cargo space.
vexx786@reddit
I feel like the first gen A7 was more popular. I used to see a lot more of those around when they were new. I've hardly seen any of the second gen.
TheCudder@reddit
The BMW equivalent is the 8 Series...it still sold better, just saying. Its most recent year with 4 full quarters of sales data (2022) shows 7,479 cars sold.
Mrr_Bond@reddit
Has there been any indication that people in this sub thought the A7 class was doing well? The thread announcing it's cancelation was met with nothing but a lack of surprise. Just because people here like it doesn't mean they think it's a success.
rg25@reddit
So should the most popular threads be regarding the F-150 and RAV4?
IWantToPlayGame@reddit
There are very few sedan buyers, especially at the higher cost range.
The likes of the 7 Series and S Class still have a solid buying base, but the A7 doesn’t. Now that this form favor is out of favor, nobody is buying them.
lostinheadguy@reddit
Obviously it's an EV versus an ICE, but the A6 e-Tron is the effective functional replacement for the A7 in the US considering it's only available as a sportback. It'll be interesting to see third quarter and fourth quarter sales to see if the A6 e-Tron overtakes it.
Do we even know if there will even be a next-generation A7 globally?
Abba_Fiskbullar@reddit
I'm in the SF Bay Area and buyers in this segment seem to have switched to the i4 and iX. I was in both Marin and Palo Alto a few weeks ago, and the parking lots were full of new BMW EVs, and EVs in general, whereas five years ago there were solid Teslas and Audi SQ5s. This could also be the effect where Teslas are so common in CA that they just aren't noticeable anymore.
komrobert@reddit
I just don’t think Audi is doing well in the upper level of luxury anymore. The A6+ don’t sell well at all compared to BMW and Mercedes variants.
Half of Audi sales came from Q3 and Q5, whereas for Mercedes and BMW a much larger % of sales came from the larger and more expensive vehicles - namely X5/X7 and GLE/GLS
WOW_SUCH_KARMA@reddit
Proving once again that Reddit is completely out-of-touch with the real world.
nick61416@reddit
I think people forget reddit is such a small minority of car buyers... Especially enthusiast...
vpach530@reddit
They are too expensive.
Legendver2@reddit
Ppl r still buying 5 and 7 series, the actual big sedans according to this sub
RunninOnMT@reddit
Well yeah. The RS6 wagon* is EVEN BETTER looking!!
*I’m also not buying an rs6 wagon
corn_sugar_isotope@reddit
"In spite of what Reddit thinks"
hermitcraftfan135@reddit
Wow, that’s INCLUDING all 3 models? That really sucks. Much less than I would have thought
DodgerBlueRobert1@reddit
I think the 1st gen A7/S7 was far better looking than the current 2nd gen, both inside and out. Sales of the model have been on a downward trend for years now. To me, Audi in general peaked in the mid to late 2010's with their designs. Going from this to this isn't progress.
SnikySquirrel@reddit
Tbh I’ve never seen this sub praise the A7’s styling until it was discontinued. Even on Reddit people forgot it existed.
Legendver2@reddit
Because ppl on Reddit dunno wtf they're talking about most of the time
Augents@reddit
The styling is popular on this, because this sub isn’t exclusive to Americans.
I see A7s all the time in Germany.
DocPhilMcGraw@reddit
I think it’s a good looking car but I am also not about to spend $70k on a car, no matter if I could afford one or not.
This is a car enthusiast sub. There are plenty of cars I can appreciate without personally buying.
It’s like minivans: I can definitely appreciate and think they’re great vehicles that should be more popular. Am I buying one? No because I am single with no kids so I don’t see the justification for me to personally own one.
ulikescience@reddit
Over 1,500 sold in a year. Damn that's too many.
sweendog101@reddit
My buddy has a S7 that he bought used. Loves it. Got a great deal on it as it was a leased car and 3 years old
russthegod@reddit
If i could afford one, id get one. That applies to a lot of cars
Dazzling-Rooster2103@reddit (OP)
But people that can actually afford them arent buying them, they are buying BMW 5 series, or 7 series.
IS-2-OP@reddit
I mean you never really see them. I think the people that want a luxury sedan get the A8 and the rest of the people in that segment seem to be buying the 5 series or SUVs. They’re pretty cool but really not popular at all. I see more RS6s then I see an A7/S7/RS7.