New Polish president demands Germany pay war reparations on invasion anniversary
Posted by BubsyFanboy@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 71 comments
Poland’s new right-wing president, Karol Nawrocki, has marked the anniversary of the outbreak of World War Two by renewing calls for Germany to pay reparations for its brutal invasion and occupation.
However, at the same ceremony, Prime Minister Donald Tusk – who leads a more liberal, pro-EU government that is opposed to Nawrocki – warned that “we must understand who is the enemy and who is our ally”, and that only a “united Europe” can keep Poland safe.
“To build a partnership with our western neighbour based on the foundations of truth and good relations, we must finally settle the issue of reparations from the German state, which I unequivocally demand,” declared Nawrocki this morning at Westerplatte in the city of Gdańsk.
That was where, on 1 September 1939, the first battle of the German invasion of Poland took place. Within weeks, Poland had been overrun by Nazi Germany from the west and the Soviet Union from the east, marking the beginning of almost six years of brutal occupation.
Around 6 million Polish citizens, 17% of the prewar population, were killed in the war, a higher proportion than in any other country. The German occupiers also laid waste to many Polish cities and plundered or destroyed much of Poland’s cultural heritage.
“Eternal shame to the German and Soviet murderers,” declared Nawrocki today, adding that, “if you have killed and stolen, you must confess your sin, you must apologise, and you must make amends”.
“For our common future, for the security of our alliances, we are waiting for reparations from the German state,” continued Nawrocki, who expressed hope that “the Polish government will strengthen the voice of the Polish president…[in] seeking truth and honesty towards our western neighbour”.
Nawrocki – who took office as president less than a month ago, before which he served as head of the state Institute of National Remembrance (IPN) – has in the past repeatedly expressed his belief that Germany still owes Poland war reparations.
Speaking after the president, Tusk, who like Nawrocki comes from Gdańsk, said that Westerplatte is a “sacred place…[that] compels us to remember the millions of victims of this most brutal of wars, and compels us to remember that Poland must never again become a victim of anyone’s aggression”.
But, added the prime minister, in order to prevent an “attack on our homeland, we must understand who is the enemy and who is our ally, we must understand clearly where this threat comes from today and with whom we should unite in the effort to defend Poland and the entire Western world”.
“A united Europe, NATO, our allies – this is the lesson we learned from that solitude in 1939. Poland can never again be alone. It can never be weak.”
In 2021, Poland’s former government, led by the national-conservative Law and Justice (PiS) party with which Nawrocki is aligned, launched an effort to obtain up to $1.3 trillion in reparations that it claimed Poland is still owed by Germany.
Successive German governments, however, have argued that the issue of reparations has already been legally settled and nothing further is owed. But they have also repeatedly expressed regret and remorse for the suffering of Poles under German occupation during the war.
In June this year, shortly after Nawrocki’s election, Knut Abraham, the German government’s plenipotentiary for Polish-German cooperation, told Deutsche Welle that “our position has not changed; from a legal perspective, the matter is closed”.
After Tusk’s government replaced PiS in office in December 2023, it ended the official push for reparations but has suggested that Germany should still provide some form of “compensation” to Poland for the death and destruction it wrought during the war.
ALMAZ157@reddit
Polish People's Republic, which current Poland claims is heir of, officially recognized new borders of German Democratic Republic, and by extension - Eastern borders of unified Germany, as well as laying to rest their reparations claim.
FirstFriendlyWorm@reddit
Yeah but the new populists claim that the socialist government was not legitimate and neither are the waved reperations. But by that logic, they should point their grievances towards Russia and not Germany.
giant_shitting_ass@reddit
Too late, Germany already blew its reparations budget giving Russia billions after billions of euros for natural gas and sandbagging NATO/EU response to Putin's invasion(s).
What's left of the money was spent razing old growth forests to dig for more coal because Germany shut down its nuke plants (to protect the environment)
Anonymerboi@reddit
Bait used to believable.
giant_shitting_ass@reddit
you can call it bait, but you can't call it incorrect
5minArgument@reddit
Might have had a point post-war, but at this point it’s would be very difficult to separate the damages done by Germany and Russia.
Sure, the Germans murdered and pillaged their way through Poland in the late 30’s, but Russia and the Eastern Block f*ked them hard for 50+ years after.
-SineNomine-@reddit
True for German pillaging, but Poland sits on a quarter of Germany's pre ww2 land, so that kind of is a reparation...
kapsama@reddit
But they didn't get that land for free. Russia took their Eastern territories in exchange.
And the only reason that happened is because Germany invaded both.
-SineNomine-@reddit
well, then Poland would need to address Russia / Belarus for reparations for their lost eastern provinces ... but that's ending up in a quagmire. WW2 should be sorted by now, before the mongol hordes reclaim china and eastern europe ...
kapsama@reddit
Mongol Hordes?
sieberde@reddit
10.000 years, when we have settled alpha centauri, some nut with polish ancestry will still demand reparations from some poor schmuck with German ancestors.
BallisticFiber@reddit
Why not? This should be remembered and Germany should be held accountable. Similar way we can just say "omg, again this holocaust thing". Pokes suffered a lot, have you heard about what nazis did to them? or what ukranian nationalists did to them? 80000 poles and jews were killed by ukranian nationalists.
zanotam@reddit
Then why not ask for reparations from Russia as well.
sieberde@reddit
Almost every group of people committed atrocities against another group of people at some point.
Only crying about old grievances isn't helping anyone. Asking my children to continue to pay for the inhumane cruelties the generation of my great grandparents has committed isn't helping anyone.
I am not saying we should forget these atrocities - we shouldn't. And we aren't. They are taught at length in school.
In history class, we learn what went wrong with the Weimar Republic and how extremists around Hitler used hate and rose to power.
In German class we read the diary of Anne Frank and discuss the horrible treatment of her and her people.
We have concentration camp survivors visit schools and tell the stories of their mistreatment. Every class (at least in my school) makes an excursion to a concentration camp where they experience first hand the absolute inhumanity of the industrialized Annihilation machine that was used by the Nazi regime to exterminate human beings like insects.
We are shown the images of the piles of boots from human beings who have been vanished from the face of the earth with nothing but their belongings left of them.
There is a responsibility that Germany has inherited from its darkest time. This responsibility is to remember and never ever forget, what inhumane atrocities have been committed, enabled or tolerated by ordinary people. Our responsibility is to understand how something so terrible could have happened and to do everything in our power to prevent it from ever happening again - in Germany and in the rest of the world. Our responsibility is NOT to be the scapegoat for populist nationalists who want to point the finger somewhere else.
As I said, no group of people is historically free of Sinn and we would all do good in looking into the mirror and remembering the mistakes of our ancestors.
Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it.
BallisticFiber@reddit
Ye, sry ain't in a mood to read War and Peace by Leo Tolstoy. Learn to summarize your main ideas and thoughts, best of luck
DontMindMeFellowKids@reddit
This takes like a minute to read, it's not that hard bro. Stop discussing on topics when your brain can't focus on it for more then 12 seconds
Pick-Physical@reddit
If you make yourself look like you have absolutely zero knowledge on the subject people will give detailed answers to educate you.
NeJin@reddit
I mean, you presumably read the article that was posted, and that was twice as long. I assume that took you less than 5 minutes, so it is a little strange that the moment someone disagrees with you, all of sudden, it is too much too read. It is even stranger to take the effort of writing how you aren't gonna read it, when you could have just not engaged to begin with.
But fine, I'll do it for you, you're welcome:
- The history of most countries has been written in blood; atrocities are a common occurence throughout history
- If mere citizenship was sufficient to owe reparations, then everyone would owe everyone. Aside from that being asinine, it's not fair to people who weren't even born when that shit went down.
- As for history being remembered, Germany does that, a lot. Schools teach about the crimes Nazis did in detail.
- Countries should owe up to their atrocities, but its even more important to understand what lead to that happening and prevent it from happening again.
- That doesn't mean you should bow to every demand of other populist nationalists.
BallisticFiber@reddit
bruh, you again with Leo Tolstoy remastered? How do I mute a thread on reddit?
NeJin@reddit
You think this is a long comment? Seriously?
Alright, challenge accepted. Give me a max word count. I'll see if I can condense it to your liking.
ruplay@reddit
3
Distracted_Unicorn@reddit
Guy has the attention span of a mayfly going by his comments.
Major_Trip_Hazzard@reddit
Jesus how messed up is your attention span that you can't even read that many sentences?
sieberde@reddit
Interesting choice to not take the time to read a comment but to make time to write a comment about not reading one.
You do you I guess.
BallisticFiber@reddit
Because one should learn on how to make thesis and pivotal bullet points instead of writing an essay of gow you've spent your last summer. Have a nice one, mate
sieberde@reddit
Oh so you did read it.
Thanks buddy <3
BallisticFiber@reddit
No, I just replied to your previous message where you asked why I replied like this
YourFuture2000@reddit
Only countries with power of sanctions can demand war reparation.
jcw99@reddit
Oh Poland has gotten plenty of war reps. Especially during the conference where they and everyone else agreed that the matter was to be settled after this final set of payments and that no further claims could be made.
See the two plus four agreement or more properly: "Treaty on the Final Settlement with Respect to Germany"
kubaok@reddit
Dude, it was Russia who agreed to that. You know the one Poland was given away to for decades after the war. I don't believe Poland will ever be compensated for the loss but it's insane to say that they don't deserve it or that it has been settled.
jcw99@reddit
They literally hold 25% of pre-war German territory. As for The Soviet Union. As much as we hate it, they were the government of the time and did collect in Poland's name. If Poland wants reparations they should get it from The Soviet Union/their designated successor state, Russia.
BendicantMias@reddit
Hence why the US hasn't paid reparations for all its warmongering since ww2
BendicantMias@reddit
And as usual the rest of Europe will still not pay reparations for colonialism
goonerladdius@reddit
You'd think at some point the Polish Populist will stop beating this dead horse or the electorate will finally call out the shameless political grandstanding for cheap political points.
KobraKaiJohhny@reddit
It's to create division within Europe. Russian influence, nothing more.
Hungry_Weezing@reddit
Ofc lol. Today I smashed my finger, Russia's fault. Laughable
zanotam@reddit
I mean, the guy is calling for reparations from Germany but not Russia....
BendicantMias@reddit
Imagine thinking the continent that couldn't get along even when it had the world in its hands needs Russia to have divisions. Both WW1 and 2 started in Europe, no other continent has managed that.
kapsama@reddit
Well no other continent managed industrialization and globalization.
BubsyFanboy@reddit (OP)
I feel like it'll take decades before that side of Poland can finally be truly marginalized.
BendicantMias@reddit
You think they're being marginalized? Lol typical Reddit 'right side of history' moment. 😅
Fyi there is no such thing as a 'right side of history' i.e. the future you're dreaming of is NOT inevitable. YOU aren't inevitable.
ZeeX_4231@reddit
Heck, they are getting stronger now
WannaAskQuestions@reddit
In a democracy individuals might call things out. Electorate as a whole is easily manipulated and rarely call idiots out.
ALMAZ157@reddit
Poles only recently finally put to rest Kachinsky who died in aircrash, oh boy how many times they dug him up
Figuretivly, of course
goonerladdius@reddit
It's not comparable
Alaknar@reddit
It kind of is, because it's the same idea - take something that many people feel strongly about and use it to divide the nation.
The Smolensk crash was perfect, because PiS was able to lay blame on PO (the government at the time) thick. And they did, which won them the next two elections.
The reparations from Germany are even more unhinged considering PiS had both the President and the Government for EIGHT years straight and they did nothing towards getting that money. They only used it to boost their numbers in pre-election weeks.
Whatever the issue is - the death of a president, reparations, suicide of a 14 year old boy, "illegal" "immigrants" from Germany - they'll use with all the cynicism they can muster.
Active-Walk-6402@reddit
"Poland should get rid of its free money button"
Aw yep, that's definitely going to happen, lol
H2Nut@reddit
INT. CIA HEADQUARTERS – LANGLEY, VIRGINIA
A sleek office. AGENT SMITH answers a secure phone.
AGENT SMITH (brisk) Langley. Status report.
CUT TO: CIA HIDEOUT – WARSAW, POLAND
MR. Duda (whispering) Mr. K here. Overseer Mr. K is in position, following Orange Man’s playbook to the letter. Operation is smooth. Just like he wanted.
AGENT SMITH (relieved) Copy that. Good work, Warsaw.
Smith hangs up, types a briefing, then sends it.
AGENT SMITH (typing) “Mr. Orange Man: Warsaw assets compliant. All objectives are green-lit.”
CUT TO: FLORIDA COMPOUND – DAY
ORANGE MAN lounges in a gaudy office. He reads the briefing, then grabs a gold-plated phone.
ORANGE MAN (booming) Of course it’s perfect! Nobody runs agents like me. They listen, they win, because I’m the best there is! Mr. K loves me, Duda loves me. Everybody loves me — even the spies! Tremendous!
He smirks, feet on desk.
ORANGE MAN (into phone) Tell Langley: never been safer, never been smarter. You people are welcome. Believe me, it’s yuuuge!
FADE OUT.
giant_shitting_ass@reddit
Too late, Germany already blew its reparations budget giving Russia billions after billions of euros for natural gas and sandbagging NATO/EU response to Putin's invasion(s).
What's left of the money was spent razing old growth forests to dig for more coal because Germany shut down its nuke plants (to protect the environment)
saschaleib@reddit
The question of reparations was settled years ago, no need to get back to it.
But if Poland insisted, we should also open the question what will happen with the land that they received from Germany as compensation after WWII.
You can’t just say we talk about one but not the other. If one is on the table, then all is on the table.
EstablishmentLow2312@reddit
€245.5 billion from the EU budget while contributing about €83.7 billion, resulting in a net gain of around €161.6 billion.
The total cost of World War II destruction in Poland—including the killing of around 6 million citizens (with systematic targeting of the intelligentsia), the destruction of nearly half of buildings and infrastructure, the looting of cultural and industrial assets, and the exploitation of millions of Poles as forced laborers in the German war economy—is estimated at well over €1 trillion in today’s value.
Rightfully so, europe owes trillions to many nation and have left a legacy of genocide, rape, destruction without accountability, while enjoying the benefits of such.
Yuzumi_@reddit
Poland got 25% of germanies territory and agreed to lay their claim for reparations to rest and recognized the borders of todays poland and Germany.
All demands are null and void
IchSehDieSchiffeDen@reddit
About a quarter of the territory of pre-war Germany is occupied by Poland, is now in my opinion Poland as a matter of fact. But, Germany never ceded those territories to Poland, it only promised to never try to take them back by force.
Nawrocky might just shut up, but he won't, it is a favorite Polish populist thing and will never stop.
Returning to the border of pre-war Europe and I mean the great war here, would solve all problems including the Ukraine conflict quite nicely with Austria-Hungary, Germany and France as the core of the new EU.
Thangoman@reddit
Lets restore the balance of power already, lets go back to 1815 borders
Elloitsmeurbrother@reddit
The Poles might not be too happy with pre WW1 borders
Britstuckinamerica@reddit
Depends how pre WWI we're talking
pm_me_BMW_M3_GTR_pls@reddit
I thought you were deadass until the third paragraph lel
marvin_bender@reddit
This is my thinking too. With the way the Afd is polling, Poland is more likely to get another invasion than reparations. I'd look into acquiring some nukes if I were them.
GodZ_n_KingZ@reddit
Poland is a hypocritical nation, they demand reparations from the Germans over WW2 crimes but when the Jews say the same thing about Poland they cry about it.
Thangoman@reddit
The Poles and other slavs were victim of the holocaust too
I_Am_Your_Sister_Bro@reddit
Im still waiting for Poland to pay reparations for occupying Czechoslovakia with Germany and Hungary after the Munich betrayal
Messier_-82@reddit
Shh, don’t you know, Poland is supposed to be an eternal victim. Remember, Poland did nothing wrong
pineapplegrab@reddit
Go for it. Stir up the pot. We need to distract Armania/s
pm_me_BMW_M3_GTR_pls@reddit
Today i learned Poland executed 6 million jews
bannedByTencent@reddit
Not Poland, just a populist party. Also it’s a really bad comparison - Poles did not build nir ran the murder camps.
Admiral2Kolchak@reddit
It’s almost like the world is just simply a competitive place. All this whining over reparations is designed purely for weak people who fall for that stuff and were taught self guilt from a young age…
CuriousCat31441@reddit
Least retarded polish nationalists doing their thing. Poland stronk 💪
pm_me_BMW_M3_GTR_pls@reddit
You can repost this every time a new president is elected lol
every single president ever demanded this
pm_me_BMW_M3_GTR_pls@reddit
You can repost this every time a new president is elected lol
Real-Logan@reddit
Poland is ontop of the fastest growing economies in the eu. And they will get a lot more new infrastructure paid by the eu. Germany is supporting this a lot and kind off paying back in an inofficial way, without saying its paying back. Because for reasons germany cant officially legitimate those demands.
CuriousCat31441@reddit
Least retarded polish nationalist