Fun Fact: burkas are actually looked down upon depending on the region you're living in. In fact, a woman mustn't wear burka or gloves to Hajj! Hijab headscarves, however, is encouraged everywhere (except Turkey).
You know there are chill Muslims. I just had a drink up (alcohol) and a smoke with my Muslim mate last weekend who doesn't make his wife wear anything she doesn't want to.
He still believes in god and follows Ramadan and halal and shit but rarely goes to the mosque.
As with absolutely anybody it should be a judge of character and not by their beliefs.
There are many religious people from all religions I would not fuck with. Just know there are good people under all faiths. Coming from a non religious person.
You know the first part you twlked about? The smoking and drinking bit?
He can believe all he wants. But by just those 2 actions, hes sinning openly. So why the fuck does he believe in any of it? He'd be killed in any village across the planet that practices the religion properly.
And that goes for every religion. There are some decent Mormons. But dont even try to interact with them in Mormon country outside of major city centers. If they dont just flat refuse to interact with you, they'll actively sabotage you in ways that could result in death. Same goes for extreme Catholics and so on.
You can practice a 'lite' version of the religion all you want. It doesn't mean you are religious, though. It just means you are basically you are trying to have your cake and eat it too.
fr the only “chill muslims” are the Islamic equivalent to cafeteria/christmas catholics— they’re extremely westernised and are wishy washy about any of the inconvenient rules of their religion, which does nothing to negate criticism of islam in of itself
That’s the same with most religions. We call the extremists fundamentalists but they are the one that’s actually practicing the religion. Anyone else aren’t really religious but rather practice the same rituals as a culture.
Picking and choosing is a cultural practice not a religious one. (And yes some extremists are also picking and choosing — those aren’t fundamentalists they’re just practicing theocracy)
Religion should be as criticizable as any other personal belief.
Every horrible feeling you have towards Nazis, I have also against Islam.
It’s the same thing, claiming you believe horrible shit that’s caused extreme oppression and genocide of millions. You can say you don’t really pay attention to the letter of mein kampf and are actually a chill dude, but you are still a horrible person and a danger to society by simply normalizing and spreading the belief.
Heavily agree, I don’t see why we as humans tolerate religions that want to kill people over shit like smoking or drinking in public, should you do those things? Depends on the circumstance but mostly no, but you don’t deserve to die for doing it.
I can understand religion is an important thing for many, but looking at it from an outsiders perspective I’ve only ever been able to view it as a set of suggestions for how you should live your life, never a bunch of rules, and I was one of the kids who went to Sunday school and everything, you’d think It’d be more ingrained in me but I was thinking it was all bs by the time I was 8 or 9, nothing people argue over this much is ever really that important.
If your primary source for suggestions for how to live life tells you how to treat the prepubescent “wives” you “won” in combat, something is fucked up. That doesn’t sound like a good source whatsoever and brings into question your entire character.
Yes and no. Any personal beliefs should be criticised as a personal beliefs. Many who label themselves religious do not actually subscribed to all beliefs and doctrines within such religion. So instead of criticising their religion that may not actually fit exactly what they think, it’s more accurate to directly criticise their specific ideas. Attacking a religion will also likely end up in a whole different sets of arguments about its history and its beliefs than the specific beliefs of the person you are arguing with.
You can denounce an ethnonationalist without ascribing the label of Nazism. Calling someone a Nazi without them adhering to actual Nazi practices will easily derail the conversation and you are just borrowing the emotional impact of the label.
And ironically if people simply ascribe themselves as chill Nazi, you should see them as the same (categorically, not morally) as someone who practice Islam culturally. They are diluting down the ideology and rendering it harmless. You want Nazis who wear swasticas and tell other how Germany could have won ww2. You don’t want Nazis who actually beliefs in lebanstrum, autarky, and the state directed economy.
Someone calling themselves a Nazi but saying they just reinterpreted the antisemetic parts and kept the things they likened doesn’t mean it’s good.
Normalizing and improperly portraying Nazism is already a danger and disservice to society which will cause future extremists to hurt people.
This applies to the religion too. You can say you don’t follow the hundreds of lines of hate and oppression, but that doesn’t change that you are normalizing that hateful literature to a new generation.
Someone calling themselves a Nazi but saying they just reinterpreted the antisemetic parts and kept the things they likened doesn’t mean it’s good.
I agree, it’s not good. But someone roleplaying a diluted, dumb downed version of Nazism is, in my opinion, of lower risk of harm. It unconsciously mock the symbolism and make purely cosmetic. It then, as a political movement, is burdened. An ideology is less palatable if its symbols are associated with aloofness instead of strength.
Normalizing and improperly portraying Nazism is already a danger and disservice to society which will cause future extremists to hurt people.
If we assume the same trajectory of religion. The secularisation of Christianity, from my understanding, is the destruction of a united, “proper” view of the religion. Their multiple schism and the 30 years war allows everyone to “improperly” define what it means to be a Christian. And when everyone can pick and choose, people can convert to a more convenient, lazier, and less rigid stance. The pope’s authority wanes, and crusades are no longer a powerful tool.
If anything, if you can reinterpret and reconstruct a new vision for nationalism or national socialism, you can outcompete and make Nazism no longer viable as a contemporary thought.
This applies to the religion too. You can say you don’t follow the hundreds of lines of hate and oppression, but that doesn’t change that you are normalizing that hateful literature to a new generation.
As they don’t follow the lines of hate and oppression, they don’t teach those lines seriously as well. They’d brush it off saying it’s a different setting or other stuff. It’s diluted, largely harmless, and used as a political tool when they pick and choose with the book — and the future generations will just further dilute it and make it even less harmless. That’s how you get “Christians” to support same sex marriage — not by prosecutions but by its dilution.
You are also an idiot for claiming you believe something but not actually believing it.
Sure, they aren’t as harmful as ISIS militants, but that doesn’t mean that it’s okay. It still brings forward the explicit material telling Muslims to oppress and conquer.
Christianity is dying and that’s a good thing. It’s lost most of its fangs, but there are still many people who still try and push for oppression due to it. They are called fundamentalists, because they just fundamentally do what the book tells them. You can look at the Christian nationalist violence in the Us for an example of how that is concerning.
Saying you believe a book which tells you that you should kill gay people, while you actually don’t want to kill gay people, is just silly.
You can’t really believe that book if you don’t believe what it very explicitly says. And if you aren’t believing in a “book from god”, instead assuming things to be translation and manipulation issues, why does any of it have any legitimacy? You have no reason to tie yourself to something which is only partially correct in your own view.
I think it’s just people falling into social pressures to conform while lacking effective thorough introspection onto their action beliefs.
All of society and public environments discouraging critical assessment is the biggest factor in promoting this.
And, when you keep saying you believe a book, you get other people to believe the book, and you get them to follow what it says.
Sure, they aren’t as harmful as ISIS militants, but that doesn’t mean that it’s okay. It still brings forward the explicit material telling Muslims to oppress and conquer.
Christianity is dying and that’s a good thing. It’s lost most of its fangs, but there are still many people who still try and push for oppression due to it. They are called fundamentalists, because they just fundamentally do what the book tells them. You can look at the Christian nationalist violence in the Us for an example of how that is concerning.
As I mentioned, the process of their death is via dilution. I have stated that I agree with your moral assessment but that is irrelevant to where and how it should be addressed.
Saying you believe a book which tells you that you should kill gay people, while you actually don’t want to kill gay people, is just silly.
Yes. Sure. Let them keep doing it. Tell them to do more. That’s how you defang them.
You can’t really believe that book if you don’t believe what it very explicitly says. And if you aren’t believing in a “book from god”, instead assuming things to be translation and manipulation issues, why does any of it have any legitimacy? You have no reason to tie yourself to something which is only partially correct in your own view.
You are arguing for philosophical accuracy here. I don’t disagree. But that’s a different discussion than morality.
I think it’s just people falling into social pressures to conform while lacking effective thorough introspection onto their own beliefs.
Why people subscribe to a religion is a different topic. Without too much derailing I’d just say religion derives a lot of things beyond just the doctrine that people find appealing.
All of society and public environments discouraging critical assessment is the biggest factor in promoting this.
I agree that nothing is beyond criticism or discussion even.
And, when you keep saying you believe a book, you get other people to believe the book, and you get them to follow what it says. What it says is a significant problem.
But as you surely are aware, people pick and choose. You can call them silly but still it renders the conclusion not necessarily valid. Secularism is making religion transform into a diluted cultural practice, making them secede the central moral authority to the social contract. What the book says will only get weaker and weaker, even without altering the text. The French still cries for the blood of impure to shower their field, but no one truly takes their national anthem literally. The text are cosmetic symbols detached from the harmful ideas.
People can make their own philosophy, it is their weakness to rely on archaic dogma.
I’m upset that religion is protected more than any other philosophy. People should be able to deny hire based on it the same way we do for self identified Nazis. Public forums should allow admonishment of people who believe such things the same way we do for Nazis.
Sure, they can speak freely as is their right, but that should come with social consequences. Instead, you only get social consequences for speaking against Islam, a backwards system.
People can make their own philosophy, it is their weakness to rely on archaic dogma.
They don’t. That’s why they pick and choose.
I’m upset that religion is protected more than any other philosophy. People should be able to deny hire based on it the same way we do for self identified Nazis. Public forums should allow admonishment of people who believe such things the same way we do for Nazis.
If you can deny hire on political opinions you would exacerbate all social and cultural conflict into immeasurable heights. The scope and that power that be will always change. The labelling of people will get worse and everyone will effectively excommunicate each other that either co-existence or free expression becomes immeasurable. Speeches should be met equivalently with speeches or personal disengagement, not an infinite level of ostracism. Because both sides will employ the tactic and turn everything worse.
Sure, they can speak freely as is their right, but that should come with social consequences. Instead, you only get social consequences for speaking against Islam, a backwards system.
That I agree. But by your earlier point, if you can bar someone from employment due to their religious labelling it’s and overreach.
Willful ignorance or laziness doesn’t remove culpability.
You can absolutely deny hire based on political affiliation. That’s why people are told not to be political on their public profiles if they want a job. They can decide to not hire Nazis.
Religion, politics, it’s just philosophy. It’s as restrictive to your behavior as companies refusing to hire people who don’t fit with their company culture.
I still laugh about the Catholics. To win over crowds and keep them apart of the religion, they constantly have to 'redefine' what is food for Lent fasting. Or what a creature is. They ruled a few years back a milkshake is a drink, as is a smoothie, ASSUMING there are no solid chunks in it. And relabeled many animals, like cabibaras, as fish so you could eat them on friday. Stretching the hell out of what qualifies just to keep people happy and practicing. But most of those people are only Catholics in name alone. And if the religion didnt bend to them, they'd bounce.
oh i am catholic actually, i just think wishy washy ones are cringe.
theres actually some interesting history behind why some water mammals are considered acceptable for Fridays, and it kind of boils down to it not being about “fish” but a simple “penance food”, as fish was considered a simple and non-luxury meal proper for times of penance. it’s essentially a matter of translation complications that we say it’s “fish and not meat”. then somewhere around the 1700s they permitted water mammals like muskrat to be eaten during the Lenten season as people in places like (iirc) Minnesota were experiencing hunger in that season when their crops weren’t viable and fish were evading capture. so it’s more about clarifying the rules for people in extreme circumstances than loosening the rules so people don’t have to follow them
I dont think god would be chill with that reclassification or 'clarification'. I think god would say 'guess you deserve to die, fuckers.' Especially with everything i know about the old and new testament.
Because if it was about being a 'penance food' and a non-luxury food source, water fowl would get a pass as they fit the same criteria as the acceptable water mammals. Or all vermin for that matter, seeing as they have been seen as a last resort protein source for most of human history.
And i guess I pissed off a lot of catholics, as im being downvoted for literally saying what happened in recent years with milkshakes, smoothies, and capibaras.
why would god (in the catholic context) not be ok with the heads of the church making some clarifications on rules based off previously established religious doctrine? In the gospel of Mathew jesus gave peter (the first pope) the keys to the kingdom of heaven, symbolising authority as well as the power to "bind and loose," which allows the church through its leaders to forgive sins, pronounce doctrinal judgments, and take disciplinary action, essentially governing the church on God's behalf. as an atheist you can totally disregard this as stuff you don’t believe happened but you can’t just say “errm God wouldn’t want that” when within the logic of our beliefs he clearly would be ok w that.
if it was about penance
it literally is bro, you can just research these things yourself yk. not every animal under those criteria have been officially deemed ok bc frankly there hasn’t really been a reason to do that, like I said it’s more about clarifying for those in extreme circumstances.
ur prob being downvoted bc you’re saying a lot of stuff seemingly out of ignorance and don’t actually know that much about Catholicism. god bless.
Considering Catholicism is a skism of Christianity, I dont think it has much weight and it screams 'we want to be Christians but we also want a say in what we can do.' And anyone taking it personally missed the entire original point i was making. And thats you dont like it when posers exist that curate their religion around themselves, while practicing a religion that literally exists to curate it around themselves.
the Catholic Church was literally founded by Jesus Christ, hope this helps
i urge you to research church history before making these statements and forming such strong opinions, even if you yourself don’t believe in these things. I fear you have been misguided and are speaking on ignorance. God bless you and have a great day.
Catholicism was founded by Saint Peter. An apostle of Jesus. Who was sent to spread Christianity. And later, around 600 AC, schismed hard into the bullshit hierarchy and cardnial/pope system you have today.
If you are gonna call that Jesus founding it, by that definition God founded it himself as Jesus wouldn't have existed without god. Oh wait, but that's why you worship Mary, innit? Because without her, Jesus wouldn't exist, in theory. Even though her most notable thing she did in any major context was birth Jesus.
And about that, around 300 AC is when Jesus name became Jesus. Prior to that the church wasn't on the Roman empires radar. And he was called by his actual name, yeshua. And god by his real name, yahweh. And your own religion bent a fucking knee when the romans said you gotta make your gods name more feminine so our gods hold supremacy to yours.
Act like I dont know about Catholicism all you want. Im well aware of its history and its founding. Im just much more crass and dont feel like I need to make a 20 hour youtube video series over 1 singular point. Because its a dumb religion.
How do extreme Catholics kill or sabotage to kill you? It'd be against their faith, so they wouldn't be real Catholics, wouldn't they? What about Buddhists? Or animists? That doesn't seem like every religion does it.
A... Are you fucking taking the piss? Do i need to give you a 300 year history lesson on the shit the Catholics have pulled? Canada especially would have a word with you, at least their native survivors would. And if you go to any south american catholic dominated areas, as a non Christian in a Christian dominated area, things will get very unfun for you. Anything goes as long as the popes cool with it in their faith.
As far as buddhists, you got a lot of posers who claim to be buddhists when in actuality they only claim it as a regional belief and dont actually practice it. You see the same thing with plenty of Christians. Preach spirituality but be just complete assholes.
I dont know anything about animists, but the first few pictures shown in google images shows dudes with spears, war paint, and scary masks. So i cant imagine they are too friendly to outsiders to begin with.
Religions were created and are practiced by people, therefore people can choose which practices are correct and incorrect. There is no "proper", really.
It’s all improper because every single major religion is incredibly ridiculous. Every single one has hundreds of logical contradictions in their main texts making them objectively false.
When people say god is not disprovable, they are referring to the vague idea of some more powerful entity. The specific claims religions make are often very provable. Other than that, most religions have horrific and disgusting anti-social practices all throughout them.
Actually, not most, just abrahamic religions. The single thing which has brought more suffering than anything else in human history. Such vile and disgusting books causing literally billions oppressed, raped, and killed.
To be fair, the Abrahamic religions only came about due to the merger of mesopotamian religions merging with Semitic religions. Both were religions that regularly practiced worshipping deities that actively hurt/kill/destroy, practiced ritual sacrifices, and encouraged slavery and killing those not of your faith heavily.
The only reason they merged is they tried to Colonize an arid region after being run off/running off from bigger religious groups that had better footholds in their respective regions and wanted to either enslave them or outright kill them. And had to forgo their differences to survive. Which resulted in sharing their religions, eventually merging them into the first true Abrahamic religion, being Jewdism.
But in those days, every religion was just 'my religion is right, we do what we do because, fuck everyone else.'
And it’s not nowadays. Saying that every other religion is wrong and you should destroy the holy objects of people who believe differently from you are in all abrahamic religions starting from the beginning.
In fact, claiming that their god was the only god was a major defining feature of abrahamic religion.
You see these problems with abrahamic religions. How many genocides and extremist attacks have been down in the last 2 months by any religion besides abrahamic religions?
How many wars have been waged over the past 100k years thanks to non Abrahamic religions? You are only focusing on the now because you are living in it. Abrahamic religions are the new kids on the block and picked up the pieces of fallen empires that existed for over 5k years. Empires that had their own religions that made sonething like Islam, judism, or Christianity look tame.
The oldest Abrahamic religion is literally like 6k years old. And took a solid 3k years to even get a good foothold.
And none of those 'remaining modern religions' exist as a national religion anywhere in the sense that their beliefs determine governance. Mainly because they all schismed. But if I had to name a few in recent years, you must not be familiar with the wars that happened all over Asia prior to the 20th century. Or how a strongly belief driven Japan bombed a US military installment. Japan was fucking monstrous over 100 years ago. They gave every nation a run for their money in asia. And they were driven by a stately version of... SHINTO. most Asian wars didnt effect the western world though, so we dont typically learn about them. And whether they were a reactionary response to another group requires citations as im not a global historian.
Humans just love killing humans. And will use any excuse to do so.
In the past 500 years, Shinto Buddhism, Jainism, Hinduism, and Taoism have all been motivators in multiple conflicts.
Even Shinto, they just had one war. It was a bad one, but a rounding error compared to Christianity and Islam in casualties.
And, it’s not really Shinto tradition which led them to their war, it was racial exceptionalism, like with the Nazis.
Taoism and Confucianism were involved in wars in China which in total killed so many millions too, but they were often more motivated by other factors.
These have problem too, and have been around for thousands of years too. They just are not in the same order of magnitude of Christianity and Islam. Their religious texts are significantly less offensive as well.
That’s the key point.
It’s not just about the people and what they did.
In literature.
By the explicit word.
Abrahamic religions are the absolute worst which are still in practice. No competition whatsoever.
So you agree, that there's been more conflicts birthed from other religions. But the Abrahamic religions have killed more people on the sheer merit that population growth is a real and exponential thing.
You trying to say 'but really' is a dumb argument. Because by that definition, no abrahamic religion is warfaring and is just used as a sidebar. Like with the other religions you just tried to handwave away as 'no, the governments were just pretending'.
The words of abrahamic religions are explicitly worse than anything else I have read.
Their historic actions are more religiously motivated than any surviving religion. Islam’s current actions dominate to a ridiculous degree all religion inspired violence.
The Aztecs were worse, and many religions now known as pagan. The worst things humanity has done, have been done by abrahamic inspired cults at least if not other extinct religions.
Abrahamic literature is just so vile and barbaric compared to the other surviving religions. It is a foundational issue people refuse to confront.
whatever bro. You got a hateboner for a series of religions that are only hot right now because they are the newest survivors and you are living in that part of the timeline. In like 10k years, i bet there will be a whole new series of religions (assuming humans live that long) that'll make the current day religions look like child's play. And none of these religions will exist. Because they are self destructive.
Just that they are the newest doesn’t make them good. They aren’t even the newest.
They are only hot right now due to conquest and rape.
They are horrible ideas which should be abandoned as quickly as possible so we can actually develop humanity.
Sure, the older ones did human sacrifice but millions still die and suffer due to the current ones right now, and the only reason is that these ideas are allowed to be protected.
Hey, they almost lost. And the only reason they won was because the other religions didnt see them as a threat and fought with other bigger players. Until their own self destruction due to their senseless wars.
The Christians didnt 'conquer' ancient Rome. The ancient romans fell apart and the catholics picked up the pieces, forming the holy Roman Empire. And with all the schisms, id hardly call it a true victory. They did have a pretty good couple hundred years of being the top dogs, though.
Almost losing doesn’t make them any better. The losers were bad too and would deserve the same blame if they won.
With Rome, Rome fractured into two. The eastern Roman Empire became Christian. Like their emperor converted. The Byzantine empire lasted for a long time and preserved Greek and Roman literature as the dark ages in Europe started.
The Byzantine empire was conquered by the ottoman Turks to make it a Muslim empire. They kept many previous systems and culture making them among the least horrifically evil Muslim governments. They still intended on violent conquest of Europe.
People forget that the crusades weren’t the only side of the conflict. The ottomans very nearly were able to take Europe for themselves, and with just a few changes at the battle of lepanto, they would have.
For Christian conquest you can just look at the age of exploration from Europe and even modern remnants of colonial influence. For Islamic conquest you can look at every single period of their history without break.
Thats just saying there are no good sides in war once a war hits a certain point. Which is just human nature, and just uses religion as an excuse to be garbage.
I love the attempt at equating the teaching of Catholicism to Islam. Because not using preferred pronouns or male-only priests are totally equivalent to the actual, scriptural commandments to kill unbelievers and continue stonings (the execution by small rocks kind) in the Quran.
Good Christians are good because of the teachings of their faith. Good Muslims are good in spite of the teachings of theirs.
He can believe all he wants. But by just those 2 actions, hes sinning openly. So why the fuck does he believe in any of it?
I grew up in a rather secular Muslim environment. I've been reading Quran recently. I realized, most of people's ideas about the religion is bs. Is drinking alcohol discouraged? Yes. Will it net you an eternity in hell? Idk. The book is full of vague statements about what's good and what's not. It even says that most sins can be forgiven. There are a few unforgivable sins: denouncing God, believing in other gods, denouncing Quran, prophets etc. Will you be forgiven for drinking a bit of wine and eating some pork chops? Maybe, it's up to God.
Don't get me wrong, the book makes a lot of conflicting statements that may be interpretted in very different ways. It keeps talking about how God's forgiveness and compassion is endless, then continues to talk about how it's anger has no bounds. It tells about how sinners can be forgiven, then also tells stories about how entire civilizations were decimated because they refused to believe. Also, it's from 1500 years ago. I guess a lot of context were lost during that time.
So yeah one can be a "chill Muslim", or go blow themselves up "for the cause", depending on their interpretation.
The idea behind sin and forgiveness is the same in all Abrahamic religions. If you have to do it to survive and basically beg for forgiveness, and mean it, its fine. So if your option is dehydrate to death or drink wine, its okay. But if you go to double shot Tuesdays every week at your local bar, that pisses god off.
Smoking falls under a similar thing, as some smoked substances 'help you'. But if you aren't smoking them for medicinal reasons, and are smoking them for funzies, it pissed god off.
This goes for every 'forgiveness' scenario. You are supposed to ask for forgiveness with the understanding that youll only do it again if you fall under duress again. And you have to, you know, mean it. You can kill a dude to protect your family and be fine. But if you are a serial killer and ask for forgiveness just to kill again next month? You can fuck right off in gods eyes. But if I recall, the Quran is very vague on 'defending your home'. Thats why there are parts about killing/enslaving outsiders who come in to destabilize/disrupt the way of things. But you are supposed to still treat them as humans according to the prophets. Because when you dont, you just embolden those interopers to sow more havoc in your home.
Well hell or Jahannam is usually not eternal (unless God decides so, of course) but is more like a prison sentence, where sinners are punished by angels to "cleanse" themselves of their sins and then are permitted entry into Heaven. That's pretty nice.
I watched a documentary about Turkmenistan once. The long time (muslim) dictator even banned burkas, niquab and all other covers for womens heads/faces - his opinion was, that women from Turkmenistan are so beautiful, hiding them from Allahs view would be a crime
You'd think that any sentence containing "a woman mustn't" would be enough, but somehow, "progressive" people still like up to defend this pile of ancient memes.
Something I learned from working over the years in many different countries, hijabs are actually frowned upon by the more intellectually advanced people.
Nowhere in any religious other otherwise text is there an actual demand that a woman has to wear one.
Unfun fact: women can barely get medical care in Afghanistan now since it needs to be a female doctor for a female patient and they've banned women from going to school to be able to become doctors 🤦♂️
Funny enough, in Turkey and Syria, the headscarf (although not necessarily the veil) is considered to be a mark of liberation from state-enforced secularism (i.e. saying, "screw you, government, I'll be religious if I want to be!")
Of course in other countries, like Saudi Arabia and Iran, trying to find how much hair you can show and still be "modest" in the eyes of the religious police is a highly dangerous game played by women rebelling against state-enforced religiosity.
Iranian women really do get shafted: before the Shah was kicked out, his government-enforced secularism, and occasionally sent out the police to rip scarves off the heads of women who were wearing them of their own free will. For about fifty years, the motto of Iranian woman might as well have been: "You can't win. You can't break even. And you can't even quit the game"
Outrageous_Basis_997@reddit
Fun Fact: burkas are actually looked down upon depending on the region you're living in. In fact, a woman mustn't wear burka or gloves to Hajj! Hijab headscarves, however, is encouraged everywhere (except Turkey).
schnaab@reddit
Honestly, I don't think any fact about islam can be fun.
_who-the-fuck-knows_@reddit
You know there are chill Muslims. I just had a drink up (alcohol) and a smoke with my Muslim mate last weekend who doesn't make his wife wear anything she doesn't want to. He still believes in god and follows Ramadan and halal and shit but rarely goes to the mosque.
As with absolutely anybody it should be a judge of character and not by their beliefs.
There are many religious people from all religions I would not fuck with. Just know there are good people under all faiths. Coming from a non religious person.
EvaUnit_03@reddit
You know the first part you twlked about? The smoking and drinking bit?
He can believe all he wants. But by just those 2 actions, hes sinning openly. So why the fuck does he believe in any of it? He'd be killed in any village across the planet that practices the religion properly.
And that goes for every religion. There are some decent Mormons. But dont even try to interact with them in Mormon country outside of major city centers. If they dont just flat refuse to interact with you, they'll actively sabotage you in ways that could result in death. Same goes for extreme Catholics and so on.
You can practice a 'lite' version of the religion all you want. It doesn't mean you are religious, though. It just means you are basically you are trying to have your cake and eat it too.
TERRANODON@reddit
How do Mormons sabotage you ? Or Catholics
EvaUnit_03@reddit
You've never been to Utah. Or heard ex Mormon testimonials.
guilllie@reddit
fr the only “chill muslims” are the Islamic equivalent to cafeteria/christmas catholics— they’re extremely westernised and are wishy washy about any of the inconvenient rules of their religion, which does nothing to negate criticism of islam in of itself
Hongkongjai@reddit
That’s the same with most religions. We call the extremists fundamentalists but they are the one that’s actually practicing the religion. Anyone else aren’t really religious but rather practice the same rituals as a culture.
Picking and choosing is a cultural practice not a religious one. (And yes some extremists are also picking and choosing — those aren’t fundamentalists they’re just practicing theocracy)
Numerous_Topic_913@reddit
Religion should be as criticizable as any other personal belief.
Every horrible feeling you have towards Nazis, I have also against Islam.
It’s the same thing, claiming you believe horrible shit that’s caused extreme oppression and genocide of millions. You can say you don’t really pay attention to the letter of mein kampf and are actually a chill dude, but you are still a horrible person and a danger to society by simply normalizing and spreading the belief.
ChoiceFudge3662@reddit
Heavily agree, I don’t see why we as humans tolerate religions that want to kill people over shit like smoking or drinking in public, should you do those things? Depends on the circumstance but mostly no, but you don’t deserve to die for doing it.
I can understand religion is an important thing for many, but looking at it from an outsiders perspective I’ve only ever been able to view it as a set of suggestions for how you should live your life, never a bunch of rules, and I was one of the kids who went to Sunday school and everything, you’d think It’d be more ingrained in me but I was thinking it was all bs by the time I was 8 or 9, nothing people argue over this much is ever really that important.
Numerous_Topic_913@reddit
If your primary source for suggestions for how to live life tells you how to treat the prepubescent “wives” you “won” in combat, something is fucked up. That doesn’t sound like a good source whatsoever and brings into question your entire character.
Hongkongjai@reddit
Yes and no. Any personal beliefs should be criticised as a personal beliefs. Many who label themselves religious do not actually subscribed to all beliefs and doctrines within such religion. So instead of criticising their religion that may not actually fit exactly what they think, it’s more accurate to directly criticise their specific ideas. Attacking a religion will also likely end up in a whole different sets of arguments about its history and its beliefs than the specific beliefs of the person you are arguing with.
You can denounce an ethnonationalist without ascribing the label of Nazism. Calling someone a Nazi without them adhering to actual Nazi practices will easily derail the conversation and you are just borrowing the emotional impact of the label.
And ironically if people simply ascribe themselves as chill Nazi, you should see them as the same (categorically, not morally) as someone who practice Islam culturally. They are diluting down the ideology and rendering it harmless. You want Nazis who wear swasticas and tell other how Germany could have won ww2. You don’t want Nazis who actually beliefs in lebanstrum, autarky, and the state directed economy.
Numerous_Topic_913@reddit
Someone calling themselves a Nazi but saying they just reinterpreted the antisemetic parts and kept the things they likened doesn’t mean it’s good.
Normalizing and improperly portraying Nazism is already a danger and disservice to society which will cause future extremists to hurt people.
This applies to the religion too. You can say you don’t follow the hundreds of lines of hate and oppression, but that doesn’t change that you are normalizing that hateful literature to a new generation.
Hongkongjai@reddit
I agree, it’s not good. But someone roleplaying a diluted, dumb downed version of Nazism is, in my opinion, of lower risk of harm. It unconsciously mock the symbolism and make purely cosmetic. It then, as a political movement, is burdened. An ideology is less palatable if its symbols are associated with aloofness instead of strength.
If we assume the same trajectory of religion. The secularisation of Christianity, from my understanding, is the destruction of a united, “proper” view of the religion. Their multiple schism and the 30 years war allows everyone to “improperly” define what it means to be a Christian. And when everyone can pick and choose, people can convert to a more convenient, lazier, and less rigid stance. The pope’s authority wanes, and crusades are no longer a powerful tool.
If anything, if you can reinterpret and reconstruct a new vision for nationalism or national socialism, you can outcompete and make Nazism no longer viable as a contemporary thought.
As they don’t follow the lines of hate and oppression, they don’t teach those lines seriously as well. They’d brush it off saying it’s a different setting or other stuff. It’s diluted, largely harmless, and used as a political tool when they pick and choose with the book — and the future generations will just further dilute it and make it even less harmless. That’s how you get “Christians” to support same sex marriage — not by prosecutions but by its dilution.
Not sure what you’re getting at here.
Numerous_Topic_913@reddit
Sure, they aren’t as harmful as ISIS militants, but that doesn’t mean that it’s okay. It still brings forward the explicit material telling Muslims to oppress and conquer.
Christianity is dying and that’s a good thing. It’s lost most of its fangs, but there are still many people who still try and push for oppression due to it. They are called fundamentalists, because they just fundamentally do what the book tells them. You can look at the Christian nationalist violence in the Us for an example of how that is concerning.
Saying you believe a book which tells you that you should kill gay people, while you actually don’t want to kill gay people, is just silly.
You can’t really believe that book if you don’t believe what it very explicitly says. And if you aren’t believing in a “book from god”, instead assuming things to be translation and manipulation issues, why does any of it have any legitimacy? You have no reason to tie yourself to something which is only partially correct in your own view.
I think it’s just people falling into social pressures to conform while lacking effective thorough introspection onto their action beliefs.
All of society and public environments discouraging critical assessment is the biggest factor in promoting this.
And, when you keep saying you believe a book, you get other people to believe the book, and you get them to follow what it says.
What it says is a significant problem.
Hongkongjai@reddit
As I mentioned, the process of their death is via dilution. I have stated that I agree with your moral assessment but that is irrelevant to where and how it should be addressed.
Yes. Sure. Let them keep doing it. Tell them to do more. That’s how you defang them.
You are arguing for philosophical accuracy here. I don’t disagree. But that’s a different discussion than morality.
Why people subscribe to a religion is a different topic. Without too much derailing I’d just say religion derives a lot of things beyond just the doctrine that people find appealing.
I agree that nothing is beyond criticism or discussion even.
But as you surely are aware, people pick and choose. You can call them silly but still it renders the conclusion not necessarily valid. Secularism is making religion transform into a diluted cultural practice, making them secede the central moral authority to the social contract. What the book says will only get weaker and weaker, even without altering the text. The French still cries for the blood of impure to shower their field, but no one truly takes their national anthem literally. The text are cosmetic symbols detached from the harmful ideas.
Numerous_Topic_913@reddit
People can make their own philosophy, it is their weakness to rely on archaic dogma.
I’m upset that religion is protected more than any other philosophy. People should be able to deny hire based on it the same way we do for self identified Nazis. Public forums should allow admonishment of people who believe such things the same way we do for Nazis.
Sure, they can speak freely as is their right, but that should come with social consequences. Instead, you only get social consequences for speaking against Islam, a backwards system.
Hongkongjai@reddit
They don’t. That’s why they pick and choose.
If you can deny hire on political opinions you would exacerbate all social and cultural conflict into immeasurable heights. The scope and that power that be will always change. The labelling of people will get worse and everyone will effectively excommunicate each other that either co-existence or free expression becomes immeasurable. Speeches should be met equivalently with speeches or personal disengagement, not an infinite level of ostracism. Because both sides will employ the tactic and turn everything worse.
That I agree. But by your earlier point, if you can bar someone from employment due to their religious labelling it’s and overreach.
Numerous_Topic_913@reddit
And that’s their fault.
Willful ignorance or laziness doesn’t remove culpability.
You can absolutely deny hire based on political affiliation. That’s why people are told not to be political on their public profiles if they want a job. They can decide to not hire Nazis.
Religion, politics, it’s just philosophy. It’s as restrictive to your behavior as companies refusing to hire people who don’t fit with their company culture.
EvaUnit_03@reddit
I still laugh about the Catholics. To win over crowds and keep them apart of the religion, they constantly have to 'redefine' what is food for Lent fasting. Or what a creature is. They ruled a few years back a milkshake is a drink, as is a smoothie, ASSUMING there are no solid chunks in it. And relabeled many animals, like cabibaras, as fish so you could eat them on friday. Stretching the hell out of what qualifies just to keep people happy and practicing. But most of those people are only Catholics in name alone. And if the religion didnt bend to them, they'd bounce.
guilllie@reddit
oh i am catholic actually, i just think wishy washy ones are cringe.
theres actually some interesting history behind why some water mammals are considered acceptable for Fridays, and it kind of boils down to it not being about “fish” but a simple “penance food”, as fish was considered a simple and non-luxury meal proper for times of penance. it’s essentially a matter of translation complications that we say it’s “fish and not meat”. then somewhere around the 1700s they permitted water mammals like muskrat to be eaten during the Lenten season as people in places like (iirc) Minnesota were experiencing hunger in that season when their crops weren’t viable and fish were evading capture. so it’s more about clarifying the rules for people in extreme circumstances than loosening the rules so people don’t have to follow them
EvaUnit_03@reddit
I dont think god would be chill with that reclassification or 'clarification'. I think god would say 'guess you deserve to die, fuckers.' Especially with everything i know about the old and new testament.
Because if it was about being a 'penance food' and a non-luxury food source, water fowl would get a pass as they fit the same criteria as the acceptable water mammals. Or all vermin for that matter, seeing as they have been seen as a last resort protein source for most of human history.
And i guess I pissed off a lot of catholics, as im being downvoted for literally saying what happened in recent years with milkshakes, smoothies, and capibaras.
guilllie@reddit
why would god (in the catholic context) not be ok with the heads of the church making some clarifications on rules based off previously established religious doctrine? In the gospel of Mathew jesus gave peter (the first pope) the keys to the kingdom of heaven, symbolising authority as well as the power to "bind and loose," which allows the church through its leaders to forgive sins, pronounce doctrinal judgments, and take disciplinary action, essentially governing the church on God's behalf. as an atheist you can totally disregard this as stuff you don’t believe happened but you can’t just say “errm God wouldn’t want that” when within the logic of our beliefs he clearly would be ok w that.
it literally is bro, you can just research these things yourself yk. not every animal under those criteria have been officially deemed ok bc frankly there hasn’t really been a reason to do that, like I said it’s more about clarifying for those in extreme circumstances.
ur prob being downvoted bc you’re saying a lot of stuff seemingly out of ignorance and don’t actually know that much about Catholicism. god bless.
EvaUnit_03@reddit
Considering Catholicism is a skism of Christianity, I dont think it has much weight and it screams 'we want to be Christians but we also want a say in what we can do.' And anyone taking it personally missed the entire original point i was making. And thats you dont like it when posers exist that curate their religion around themselves, while practicing a religion that literally exists to curate it around themselves.
guilllie@reddit
the Catholic Church was literally founded by Jesus Christ, hope this helps
i urge you to research church history before making these statements and forming such strong opinions, even if you yourself don’t believe in these things. I fear you have been misguided and are speaking on ignorance. God bless you and have a great day.
EvaUnit_03@reddit
Are you for real???
Catholicism was founded by Saint Peter. An apostle of Jesus. Who was sent to spread Christianity. And later, around 600 AC, schismed hard into the bullshit hierarchy and cardnial/pope system you have today.
If you are gonna call that Jesus founding it, by that definition God founded it himself as Jesus wouldn't have existed without god. Oh wait, but that's why you worship Mary, innit? Because without her, Jesus wouldn't exist, in theory. Even though her most notable thing she did in any major context was birth Jesus.
And about that, around 300 AC is when Jesus name became Jesus. Prior to that the church wasn't on the Roman empires radar. And he was called by his actual name, yeshua. And god by his real name, yahweh. And your own religion bent a fucking knee when the romans said you gotta make your gods name more feminine so our gods hold supremacy to yours.
Act like I dont know about Catholicism all you want. Im well aware of its history and its founding. Im just much more crass and dont feel like I need to make a 20 hour youtube video series over 1 singular point. Because its a dumb religion.
Numerous_Topic_913@reddit
It seems like a narcissistic teenager making shit up on the fly to try and keep the appearance that he knows what he is talking about it.
Really just makes me significantly lose what little respect I have for such stupid Beliefs.
guilllie@reddit
Numerous_Topic_913@reddit
It’s pathetic.
guilllie@reddit
your blind hatred is kinda pathetic ngl
and if you think im just making stuff up you can just research these things yk
Numerous_Topic_913@reddit
It’s hatred with open eyes when I read the lines which were yelled while slaughtering children.
guilllie@reddit
lmfaoooo ok ur trolling, God bless and have a nice day <3
Numerous_Topic_913@reddit
No troll.
Those disgusting books were made for control and used for oppression.
They have hundreds of internal logical inconsistencies making them objectively false before we even think about things like evidence.
_who-the-fuck-knows_@reddit
By those standards most religious people aren't actually religious
EvaUnit_03@reddit
This news to you?
John-Sex@reddit
How do extreme Catholics kill or sabotage to kill you? It'd be against their faith, so they wouldn't be real Catholics, wouldn't they? What about Buddhists? Or animists? That doesn't seem like every religion does it.
EvaUnit_03@reddit
A... Are you fucking taking the piss? Do i need to give you a 300 year history lesson on the shit the Catholics have pulled? Canada especially would have a word with you, at least their native survivors would. And if you go to any south american catholic dominated areas, as a non Christian in a Christian dominated area, things will get very unfun for you. Anything goes as long as the popes cool with it in their faith.
As far as buddhists, you got a lot of posers who claim to be buddhists when in actuality they only claim it as a regional belief and dont actually practice it. You see the same thing with plenty of Christians. Preach spirituality but be just complete assholes.
I dont know anything about animists, but the first few pictures shown in google images shows dudes with spears, war paint, and scary masks. So i cant imagine they are too friendly to outsiders to begin with.
Rydagod1@reddit
Something something Christianity. Something something mixed fabrics.
BadB0ii@reddit
Because there is nothing in historical orthodox Christianity that requires it.
throughcracker@reddit
Religions were created and are practiced by people, therefore people can choose which practices are correct and incorrect. There is no "proper", really.
Numerous_Topic_913@reddit
It’s all improper because every single major religion is incredibly ridiculous. Every single one has hundreds of logical contradictions in their main texts making them objectively false.
When people say god is not disprovable, they are referring to the vague idea of some more powerful entity. The specific claims religions make are often very provable. Other than that, most religions have horrific and disgusting anti-social practices all throughout them.
Actually, not most, just abrahamic religions. The single thing which has brought more suffering than anything else in human history. Such vile and disgusting books causing literally billions oppressed, raped, and killed.
EvaUnit_03@reddit
To be fair, the Abrahamic religions only came about due to the merger of mesopotamian religions merging with Semitic religions. Both were religions that regularly practiced worshipping deities that actively hurt/kill/destroy, practiced ritual sacrifices, and encouraged slavery and killing those not of your faith heavily.
The only reason they merged is they tried to Colonize an arid region after being run off/running off from bigger religious groups that had better footholds in their respective regions and wanted to either enslave them or outright kill them. And had to forgo their differences to survive. Which resulted in sharing their religions, eventually merging them into the first true Abrahamic religion, being Jewdism.
But in those days, every religion was just 'my religion is right, we do what we do because, fuck everyone else.'
Numerous_Topic_913@reddit
And it’s not nowadays. Saying that every other religion is wrong and you should destroy the holy objects of people who believe differently from you are in all abrahamic religions starting from the beginning.
In fact, claiming that their god was the only god was a major defining feature of abrahamic religion.
You see these problems with abrahamic religions. How many genocides and extremist attacks have been down in the last 2 months by any religion besides abrahamic religions?
EvaUnit_03@reddit
How many wars have been waged over the past 100k years thanks to non Abrahamic religions? You are only focusing on the now because you are living in it. Abrahamic religions are the new kids on the block and picked up the pieces of fallen empires that existed for over 5k years. Empires that had their own religions that made sonething like Islam, judism, or Christianity look tame.
Numerous_Topic_913@reddit
Most wars were for things like resources.
How many Buddhist, Shinto, Jain, Hindu, daoist, etc (for remaining modern religions) have happening in the past 500 years?
And then compare that to the number of people killed by abrahamic religion.
The other violent and worse religions back then died out, and abrahamic religions are just one of the worst ones which held onto power.
EvaUnit_03@reddit
The oldest Abrahamic religion is literally like 6k years old. And took a solid 3k years to even get a good foothold.
And none of those 'remaining modern religions' exist as a national religion anywhere in the sense that their beliefs determine governance. Mainly because they all schismed. But if I had to name a few in recent years, you must not be familiar with the wars that happened all over Asia prior to the 20th century. Or how a strongly belief driven Japan bombed a US military installment. Japan was fucking monstrous over 100 years ago. They gave every nation a run for their money in asia. And they were driven by a stately version of... SHINTO. most Asian wars didnt effect the western world though, so we dont typically learn about them. And whether they were a reactionary response to another group requires citations as im not a global historian.
Humans just love killing humans. And will use any excuse to do so.
Numerous_Topic_913@reddit
In the past 500 years, Shinto Buddhism, Jainism, Hinduism, and Taoism have all been motivators in multiple conflicts.
Even Shinto, they just had one war. It was a bad one, but a rounding error compared to Christianity and Islam in casualties. And, it’s not really Shinto tradition which led them to their war, it was racial exceptionalism, like with the Nazis.
Taoism and Confucianism were involved in wars in China which in total killed so many millions too, but they were often more motivated by other factors.
These have problem too, and have been around for thousands of years too. They just are not in the same order of magnitude of Christianity and Islam. Their religious texts are significantly less offensive as well.
That’s the key point.
It’s not just about the people and what they did.
In literature.
By the explicit word.
Abrahamic religions are the absolute worst which are still in practice. No competition whatsoever.
EvaUnit_03@reddit
So you agree, that there's been more conflicts birthed from other religions. But the Abrahamic religions have killed more people on the sheer merit that population growth is a real and exponential thing.
You trying to say 'but really' is a dumb argument. Because by that definition, no abrahamic religion is warfaring and is just used as a sidebar. Like with the other religions you just tried to handwave away as 'no, the governments were just pretending'.
Numerous_Topic_913@reddit
It is worse by definition.
The words of abrahamic religions are explicitly worse than anything else I have read.
Their historic actions are more religiously motivated than any surviving religion. Islam’s current actions dominate to a ridiculous degree all religion inspired violence.
The Aztecs were worse, and many religions now known as pagan. The worst things humanity has done, have been done by abrahamic inspired cults at least if not other extinct religions.
Abrahamic literature is just so vile and barbaric compared to the other surviving religions. It is a foundational issue people refuse to confront.
EvaUnit_03@reddit
whatever bro. You got a hateboner for a series of religions that are only hot right now because they are the newest survivors and you are living in that part of the timeline. In like 10k years, i bet there will be a whole new series of religions (assuming humans live that long) that'll make the current day religions look like child's play. And none of these religions will exist. Because they are self destructive.
Numerous_Topic_913@reddit
Just that they are the newest doesn’t make them good. They aren’t even the newest.
They are only hot right now due to conquest and rape.
They are horrible ideas which should be abandoned as quickly as possible so we can actually develop humanity.
Sure, the older ones did human sacrifice but millions still die and suffer due to the current ones right now, and the only reason is that these ideas are allowed to be protected.
Numerous_Topic_913@reddit
“To be fair, they were just the horrifically oppressive group of people who won in their violent conquest”
Yeah that doesn’t make me think of them any better.
EvaUnit_03@reddit
Hey, they almost lost. And the only reason they won was because the other religions didnt see them as a threat and fought with other bigger players. Until their own self destruction due to their senseless wars.
The Christians didnt 'conquer' ancient Rome. The ancient romans fell apart and the catholics picked up the pieces, forming the holy Roman Empire. And with all the schisms, id hardly call it a true victory. They did have a pretty good couple hundred years of being the top dogs, though.
Numerous_Topic_913@reddit
Almost losing doesn’t make them any better. The losers were bad too and would deserve the same blame if they won.
With Rome, Rome fractured into two. The eastern Roman Empire became Christian. Like their emperor converted. The Byzantine empire lasted for a long time and preserved Greek and Roman literature as the dark ages in Europe started.
The Byzantine empire was conquered by the ottoman Turks to make it a Muslim empire. They kept many previous systems and culture making them among the least horrifically evil Muslim governments. They still intended on violent conquest of Europe.
People forget that the crusades weren’t the only side of the conflict. The ottomans very nearly were able to take Europe for themselves, and with just a few changes at the battle of lepanto, they would have.
For Christian conquest you can just look at the age of exploration from Europe and even modern remnants of colonial influence. For Islamic conquest you can look at every single period of their history without break.
EvaUnit_03@reddit
Thats just saying there are no good sides in war once a war hits a certain point. Which is just human nature, and just uses religion as an excuse to be garbage.
Numerous_Topic_913@reddit
Spiritualism is a natural thing, but most organized religion was made for the use of control and pushing people to war. Not the other way around.
Specifically, abrahamic religion always had conquest and control as a core part.
Humans can be garbage, and a lot of that garbage seeped into the books.
SuspiciousRelation43@reddit
I love the attempt at equating the teaching of Catholicism to Islam. Because not using preferred pronouns or male-only priests are totally equivalent to the actual, scriptural commandments to kill unbelievers and continue stonings (the execution by small rocks kind) in the Quran.
Good Christians are good because of the teachings of their faith. Good Muslims are good in spite of the teachings of theirs.
LazyLucretia@reddit
I grew up in a rather secular Muslim environment. I've been reading Quran recently. I realized, most of people's ideas about the religion is bs. Is drinking alcohol discouraged? Yes. Will it net you an eternity in hell? Idk. The book is full of vague statements about what's good and what's not. It even says that most sins can be forgiven. There are a few unforgivable sins: denouncing God, believing in other gods, denouncing Quran, prophets etc. Will you be forgiven for drinking a bit of wine and eating some pork chops? Maybe, it's up to God.
Don't get me wrong, the book makes a lot of conflicting statements that may be interpretted in very different ways. It keeps talking about how God's forgiveness and compassion is endless, then continues to talk about how it's anger has no bounds. It tells about how sinners can be forgiven, then also tells stories about how entire civilizations were decimated because they refused to believe. Also, it's from 1500 years ago. I guess a lot of context were lost during that time.
So yeah one can be a "chill Muslim", or go blow themselves up "for the cause", depending on their interpretation.
EvaUnit_03@reddit
The idea behind sin and forgiveness is the same in all Abrahamic religions. If you have to do it to survive and basically beg for forgiveness, and mean it, its fine. So if your option is dehydrate to death or drink wine, its okay. But if you go to double shot Tuesdays every week at your local bar, that pisses god off.
Smoking falls under a similar thing, as some smoked substances 'help you'. But if you aren't smoking them for medicinal reasons, and are smoking them for funzies, it pissed god off.
This goes for every 'forgiveness' scenario. You are supposed to ask for forgiveness with the understanding that youll only do it again if you fall under duress again. And you have to, you know, mean it. You can kill a dude to protect your family and be fine. But if you are a serial killer and ask for forgiveness just to kill again next month? You can fuck right off in gods eyes. But if I recall, the Quran is very vague on 'defending your home'. Thats why there are parts about killing/enslaving outsiders who come in to destabilize/disrupt the way of things. But you are supposed to still treat them as humans according to the prophets. Because when you dont, you just embolden those interopers to sow more havoc in your home.
Futureman999@reddit
That's criminal blasphemy in Pakistan. Punishable by death. Neighbors can rat you out
nlzza@reddit
No, it is not. Most people in Pakistan only go to the mosque on Fridays.
Letters_to_Dionysus@reddit
your beliefs are your character ya dumbass
searching88@reddit
So he’s a bad Muslim which makes him a good person. Hmm
glizzytwister@reddit
This is basically every Pakistani I've known.
Eric_The_Jewish_Bear@reddit
"The ones that dont take their religion seriously aren't bad"
forestalelven@reddit
Next time you meet with him, ask him about his opinion on Buddhist people and LGBT people, lol.
T_Ijonen@reddit
No can do, guvnor. If you believe in whacky shit (not exclusive to religion), I'm going to judge you and I won't feel bad about it.
TheEnigmaEncoder@reddit
Well hell or Jahannam is usually not eternal (unless God decides so, of course) but is more like a prison sentence, where sinners are punished by angels to "cleanse" themselves of their sins and then are permitted entry into Heaven. That's pretty nice.
Imperius_Furetur@reddit
I watched a documentary about Turkmenistan once. The long time (muslim) dictator even banned burkas, niquab and all other covers for womens heads/faces - his opinion was, that women from Turkmenistan are so beautiful, hiding them from Allahs view would be a crime
Outrageous_Basis_997@reddit
I watched a video on Turkmenistan a few weeks back. The dictators there are total nutjobs it's scary.
Arctic_Chilean@reddit
Don't worry, the US is starting down this path.
Outrageous_Basis_997@reddit
I'm Sudanese. Been there.
swiggidyswooner@reddit
Tajikistan banned hijab because they’re a foreign culture
Ma_Bowls@reddit
I'm pretty sure Allah can see through a bit of cloth.
nanomeme@reddit
You'd think that any sentence containing "a woman mustn't" would be enough, but somehow, "progressive" people still like up to defend this pile of ancient memes.
dordemartinovic@reddit
This post is set in Afghanistan, where Burqas/chadarees are compulsory under the Taliban
SunnyApex87@reddit
Something I learned from working over the years in many different countries, hijabs are actually frowned upon by the more intellectually advanced people.
Nowhere in any religious other otherwise text is there an actual demand that a woman has to wear one.
OrangeEvasion@reddit
we only adhere to some of the ridiculous superstitions you've heard of, and yes they result in spousal abuse* FTFY
ExperienceLow6810@reddit
Afghanon lacked the real-world comprehension to discern an earthquake from a coalition airstrike
MindGoblin@reddit
Unfun fact: women can barely get medical care in Afghanistan now since it needs to be a female doctor for a female patient and they've banned women from going to school to be able to become doctors 🤦♂️
ExperienceLow6810@reddit
Sadge fact :(
MCUAvenger1992@reddit
Anon didn’t have sex with the goats? Fake and gay.
MarionetteScans@reddit
Anon is not Welsh, so there is no need
dirschau@reddit
That's sheep, not goats.
If you're not going to be racist properly then get back in your fucking lane
MarionetteScans@reddit
Fucking lil furry horned buggers all look the same to me
dirschau@reddit
THE AUDACITY
You take that back, I will not have \~\~my wife\~\~ sheep slandered like that
SmoothPimp85@reddit
That's probably what "chilling" means
datpurp14@reddit
Take em out of the freezer and then the friction thaws them out.
G3nghisKang@reddit
I wish I had never thread this
Thin_General_8594@reddit
His wife is just the goat he lets live indoors
Dog_in_human_costume@reddit
His "wife" was a goat
thr33beggars@reddit
Ain’t a soul that can resist the gussy.
AlphaMassDeBeta@reddit
That probably happened ngl.
TacoMedic@reddit
2002 Mecca girls' school fire
And SA in 2002 was more developed with greater rights for women than Afghanistan is today.
DangyDanger@reddit
That's fucking terrible.
MikeHoteI@reddit
Such a bad day to be capable of reading....
R3-D0X3D_G0D@reddit
Fuck, what a waste of human life.
BigHatPat@reddit
her honor has been preserved, mashallah!
HebrewHamm3r@reddit
Fake: anon is married to
Gay: anon handling rock hard things
liberalhellhole@reddit
Honestly, I believe that. That has probably happened before.
papayasown@reddit
When greentext breaks news faster than r/news
BirbsAreSoCute@reddit
When 4chan breaks news before it can even happen
TheEnigmaEncoder@reddit
Funny enough, in Turkey and Syria, the headscarf (although not necessarily the veil) is considered to be a mark of liberation from state-enforced secularism (i.e. saying, "screw you, government, I'll be religious if I want to be!")
Of course in other countries, like Saudi Arabia and Iran, trying to find how much hair you can show and still be "modest" in the eyes of the religious police is a highly dangerous game played by women rebelling against state-enforced religiosity.
Iranian women really do get shafted: before the Shah was kicked out, his government-enforced secularism, and occasionally sent out the police to rip scarves off the heads of women who were wearing them of their own free will. For about fifty years, the motto of Iranian woman might as well have been: "You can't win. You can't break even. And you can't even quit the game"
Zero-godzilla@reddit
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banevader102938@reddit
This is brilliant, one of the better ones
WintersbaneGDX@reddit
Give the F22 pilot some credit. Do you know how hard it is to hit that chincy goat hut with a JDAM at 1200 miles an hour?
Worpaxell@reddit
Wife didn't get stoned under debris?
By Allah, I'll do it myself
SheepShagginShea@reddit (OP)
https://i.redd.it/6sq10bhpbkmf1.gif
jhjh300@reddit
Dude probably had spent more time with his goats anyways.
Flatulentbass@reddit
The goats working to remove her from the picture
eberlix@reddit
That's just wasted goat meat, should have kept the wife