Should I be paid for a 4 hour "trial shift" at a local garage?

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tothecatmobile@reddit

Legally. It depends what you're doing. If you're just shadowing someone, and not actually doing any real work. They you don't need to be paid. But if you're doing anything that benefits the employer, then legally they have to pay you.

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neilm1000@reddit

>But if you're doing anything that benefits the employer, then legally they have to pay you. No, they don't. Please point us to the law, either case or statute, that says this

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cgknight1@reddit

>Should I be paid for a 4 hour "trial shift" at a local garage? Four hours is short enough that it is likely a real trial and therefore could be unpaid.

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ReddPandas24@reddit (OP)

4 hours is still a full proper work shift, I know exactly the duties I'll be asked to do, and it's literally free labour for the manager

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sleepychicken1010@reddit

4 hours isn't a proper work shift

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ReddPandas24@reddit (OP)

Yes, it is ? In the UK it is 4 hour shifts are the smallest ones, especially closing shifts for a shop (ask me how I know)

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neilm1000@reddit

>In the UK it is 4 hour shifts are the smallest ones When I worked for Morrisons (and Safeway), we had someone who did two hour shifts.

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casandra77@reddit

4 hours is a part time job

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fastestman4704@reddit

>4 hours is a part time **job**

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casandra77@reddit

Why are you repeating what I said?

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fastestman4704@reddit

See that last word? It's "Job". You get paid for doing jobs.

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ReddPandas24@reddit (OP)

4 hours is a small shift, I used to do them all the time through the week while workjng for tescos along with my 8 hr ones, especially covering other's shifts

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fastestman4704@reddit

Are they working?

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neilm1000@reddit

>I know exactly the duties I'll be asked to do They don't know that you know and that is why you're being asked for a trial shift.

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cgknight1@reddit

Well you asked if you *should* be paid - I'm just telling you my read of the law in this area. Is your question actually "I WANT to be paid for a 4 hour trial shift"? Then the answer is talk to the manager.

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ReddPandas24@reddit (OP)

If its a trial to see how I'd do certain duties or training then no I wouldn't expect to be paid. But I know my read of the law and doing a trial shift that benefits the employer for free is illegal

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neilm1000@reddit

>But I know my read of the law and doing a trial shift that benefits the employer for free is illegal Then you need to re-read the law. Case and statute.

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cgknight1@reddit

>But I know my read of the law and doing a trial shift that benefits the employer for free is illegal Then go after them for the four hours - they will pay you and dismiss you if you win.

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SP4x@reddit

If they dismissed after a succesful claim then they'd have ACAS to deal with in short order.

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cgknight1@reddit

This will be a zero hour contract and they simply do not give any hours...

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Different_Possible_5@reddit

Not being horrible but I think with this attitude you're not going to get taken on. Just work the 4 hours it's a small time to what may be a life changing long term job. Chin up and crack on.

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Far-Presentation6307@reddit

The older generation say that people just don't want to work anymore... And judging by OP agonising about the fact that they might work 4 whole hours unpaid (and end up with a regular full time job) they'd be completely right. OP even tries to sound hard done by because they have to wear all black clothes (gasp!) and they're so busy in their unemployment that they have to reschedule not one, but two appointments. Turn up, work the 4 hour trial shift, laugh at any shit jokes, pull your weight, get a full time 40 hour job and regular paychecks. In a single week that's 10% unpaid hours. Over a year that's 99.8% of your hours you'll be paid for. 4 hours is a negligible length of time. You probably spent more time already today posting on Reddit or browsing social media. If you don't get the job you'll definitely spend more than 4 hours looking for another job (an no one's going to be paying you for that either).

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ReddPandas24@reddit (OP)

This attitude is due to companies constantly taking me for spin, especially after working my ass off for them and then being dropped, it's disheartening and gets annoying after a while. Imagine not being taken on just because I want to know if I'll be paid for my time and effort 🙄

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Ok_Aioli3897@reddit

Are you working on customers cars or doing something like paperwork for the company?

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ReddPandas24@reddit (OP)

I'm working in the storefront, servng customers and stocking shelves

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toady89@reddit

It doesn’t take four hours to test you on that. At most they need to see you interact with a couple of customers and see if you can match products in boxes to products on the shelf, that could be done in 30 mins.

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Ok_Aioli3897@reddit

It definitely should be paid then.

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sleepychicken1010@reddit

8 hours is a proper ful work shift 4 hours is part time

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Nearby_Impact6708@reddit

It's entirely up to you if you wanna do it. I've had a trial shift before and it landed me a job that I was at for two years. For me 4 hours unpaid work at a job I'd never done before in order to secure that job was a no brainer. I'd have been stupid not to. If I didn't take the shift then sure maybe I'd have gotten 4 hours paid labour somewhere else but it also definitely wasn't worth declining it and staying out of work for 2, 3, 4 or however many more weeks it was. I'd rather get paid 4 hours doing nothing if it prevents me spending another 2 weeks or months getting no money.

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Ok_Aioli3897@reddit

That's false if they are doing actual work or tasks with business value

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cgknight1@reddit

This is incorrect - point me to the statutory law that saws what they do on a trial cannot add business value or do actual work?

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Ok_Aioli3897@reddit

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cdp-2023-0076/ So now you provide evidence it's false

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cgknight1@reddit

Did you read your own link? >Whether a work trial results in a contract requiring the minimum wage to be paid will depend on the circumstances of the case. **There are currently no definitive rules or tests** and >the nature of the tasks carried out by the individual and how closely these relate to the job offered (where the tasks are different from those which the job would involve, this may indicate that the employer is not genuinely looking to test the individual’s ability, but rather to get the tasks carried out) and >whether the tasks carried out have a value to the employer beyond testing the individual (where the tasks are carried out in a simulated rather than real environment, this will normally indicate that they do not have such a value and that the individual is not ‘working’) So the task element is contextual and NOT an automatic factor to determine payment of NMW.

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Ok_Aioli3897@reddit

Yes and in this context they should be paid

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Tythan@reddit

Do you know which tanks OP will be carrying at the interview? No. For what we know, they may be asked to assemble and disassemble a clutch on a dummy car they have just for the purpose. If it's an actual customer car, then maaaaayyybe they could claim the compensation. But it'll be to OP to provide proof.

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Ok_Aioli3897@reddit

Op has said that they will be serving customers etc.

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Character_Start9227@reddit

Yeh absolutely. It's standard practise to pay for any trial shifts or training etc.

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Crafty_Jello_3662@reddit

Also it's the law, they cannot pay you less than minimum wage for hours worked

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neilm1000@reddit

But they don't have to pay you for a genuine trial.

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jabbo13@reddit

Probably should be paid however I would ask myself how badly do I want/need this job as 4 hours for free work could turn into a permanent contract with guaranteed income. Noone wants to work for free me included but sometimes the bigger picture needs to be considered. Is it right? No but life's not fair.

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ReddPandas24@reddit (OP)

Full time position but I'm not doing a full 4 hour shift for free. I've had to reschedule medical appointments 🙃 and a work coach check in which will affect my money

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teedeetee999@reddit

Can you just ask 'how will I be paid for this?' ie cash bank transfer etc. then makes it awkward for them to turn around and say, oh actually, we don't pay for this trial etc'

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jabbo13@reddit

Mate I get it don't get me wrong it is not ideal. But... Should the 4 hours go well you might look back in a year and think best thing I ever did. If you don't go and do it this could be a missed opportunity. If you have offers coming out your ears then maybe swerve it but I read the post as looking for a job for a while so it just needs to be weighed up.

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ReddPandas24@reddit (OP)

Yeah that's the whole thing of it, I need thw job but at the same time I'm sick of companies taking me on for free labour then tossing me out and I get nowhere. We'll see what happens

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jabbo13@reddit

It isn't right mate and I feel for ya but based on the info available to me I would do the shift if I were in your shoes

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ReddPandas24@reddit (OP)

I'm doing the shift I'm just gonna be so pissed if I've wasted 4 hours for a trial and they drop me like the last two did - even with a promise of a job

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Tythan@reddit

By law, trial shift should be always paid unless if genuinely part of a recruitment process and carried for a reasonable time for the employer to assess your competence and skills. If it's longer than a day and/or benefits the employer with value beyond the actual assessment, otherwise it will be considered work. If you don't want to ask them upfront, in theory you could go there, do what they say, and if you have evidence that what you've done was an actual job for a customer you could build a case and bring them to tribunal. It all depends if you want to go that far afterwards.

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jabbo13@reddit

Completely understandable mate but look at it this way, if that happens then at least you know you would have had a shitty job and you have dodged a bullet. I hope it all goes well mate and leads to a role let us know how ya get on we are rooting for ya!

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ReddPandas24@reddit (OP)

Y'know what you're right, fuck it let's gooooo

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daneview@reddit

In the nicest way, no company is taking people on for 4 hours free work knowing they'll not use them. If theyre not giving you the job its because they dont think youre the right for for it for whatever reason.

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shaggy_x@reddit

This all day long If you really want the job, swallow it up and do the shift for free, but it doesn’t harm to ask beforehand if you’ll be paid. Missed opportunity if you decide not to do it and there’s always the next bloke on the list who will get that chance if you pass on this

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VerbingNoun413@reddit

If you're claiming UC then you need to be careful here. Refusing an interview may result in sanctions.

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Resident_Rush_7498@reddit

Christ alive no job is worth this

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MattyJMP@reddit

Sure, going above and beyond a bit when starting out can certainly help you progress. But equally, do you think a company that won't even pay you to do a 4 hour trial shift is going to be a good place to work... If they're being crap when actively trying to recruit people, imagine what it would be like when you're working there. Would fully expect overtime to go 'missing', booking holiday to be a nightmare, asking you to be ready working at 8:45 for a 9:00 start, etc. I'd ask them now - "am I going to be paid for doing this 4 hours of work?". That's not outrageous, we all work to get paid at the end of the day. If they get pissy, you know what type of place it is.

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jabbo13@reddit

I get that but if I have no job and kids to feed (don't know what OPs situation is) then I am going to try and get the job and, if it is as bad as described as above, keep looking for the next while I at least have some money coming in. I agree it's not great and doesn't sound good but maybe the owner has 30 applicants ready to go and the 4 hours shift could be the foot in the door. Many jobs at interview stage ask for technical tasks to be completed to show competency especially in the IT world (from my understanding as I am not in the IT world) and most would complete that task without question. Isn't this similar to that only as it cannot be done on a PC, it is viewed differently as you need to go down and be in person? Again not saying it is right but food for thought.

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Maximo_0se@reddit

I hear the reasoning but this could be a total waste of 4 hours, that could be more actively spent looking or applying for other work. Say 10 people of the 30 agree to the 4 hour shift, that business has gained a free 40 hour week and you could still be bottom of the list.

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jabbo13@reddit

Yeah I get the latter part but you may be top of the list and get the job. Like I say depends how bad you need or want it. Interviewing in an office setting is travel to the place, time spent talking face to face, potentially further interviews. That is in addition to time spent on the phones with a recruiter etc. All jobs come at the price of a time commitment in one sense or another. The first part are you suggesting that if you are job searching you should avoid working 4 hours for free because you could use the 4 hours to apply to other places? We see so many threads about people applying for 1000s of jobs and not getting responses and your advise is to ignore a response because you may generate more? I have to disagree on that part and no one uses the full 24 hours on their day to apply for jobs a 4 hour shift will not prevent other opportunities.

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Rasples1998@reddit

Yes. Work is work.

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Tall-Nectarine-5982@reddit

If they don’t, then the job will likely be more painful with that employer than it is worth.

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levinyl@reddit

It's only 4 hours and if it meant you then get the job then who cares!?

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Sirlacker@reddit

No idea to the legality of it but from my understanding, a trial shift is to see how you work. The key word being work. If you're being tasked with things that are considered work, then you should absolutely be paid for it. The trial exists for both the employee and employer. It allows you both to see how well suited you are for that role. I'd be asking if the trial is paid for with at least minimum wage and if it wasn't, I'd be thinking about just saying no, otherwise it's free labour for them. However, if this is a role you actually want to do, it may prove beneficial for experience even if you don't get taken on by that garage. Either way I'd ask about payment, and then make the decision as to whether the experience is worth more than money. Also tell them to provide you with overalls from Amazon or somewhere that's cheap and does next day shipping. What they're asking is for you to potentially stain your own clothes and then not hire you anyway. Tell them if they hire you they can take the £15 that it cost for the overalls out of your first paycheck or whatever.

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buy_me_a_pint@reddit

You should be paid, there should be no loopholes about free work

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Enough-Moose-5816@reddit

Never ever ever work for free

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fastestman4704@reddit

Yes. Yes you should.

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VerbingNoun413@reddit

Unpaid trial shifts are lawful if they're a genuine assessment of the candidate and the candidate os not mislead. You don't get paid for interviews. If this is a dealbreaker for you then ask.

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V65Pilot@reddit

I've got an unpaid trial shift tomorrow, ;8 hours.

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discoveredunknown@reddit

Hiring manager when I worked at McDonald’s used to get a trial shift every Saturday for 3 hours during lunchtime rush to just make drinks for orders coming in because it was so mental. Unbelievable thinking back to it.

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Worldly-Bicycle-7343@reddit

I'd be prepared to work 4 hours unpaid if it secured me the job. It's a way for them to check your suitability to the role.

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EndPsychological2541@reddit

But you can't gaurentee it would secure you the job.. Which is the problem of not getting paid.

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Kapika96@reddit

Yes. And bosses that don't pay for that belong in jail!

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660trail@reddit

A lot of companies do this to get free labour. You need to ask if you'll be paid before you agree to a trial shift.

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West_Category_4634@reddit

No, they don't. At least not for a 4 hour shift.I used to work in a service station. It takes time and effort for them to supervise someone, and it's not as if existing ataff don't want to do extra hours when available anyway. In 4 hours, it gives managers a chance to ascertain the individuals customer facing skills, common sense, how hard working they are, and how much of a team player they are when it comes to tasks. It also gives the potential employee an idea of what is expected of them on a daily basis. So it's a win win really.

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younevershouldnt@reddit

I have to agree with this. Employer isn't gonna be laughing all the way to the bank from having someone helping out for four hours. Ideally everyone would get paid, but I don't think it's always deliberate exploitation when they are not.

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Glittering-Water495@reddit

No it's not. If someone is working for you for 4 hours, you pay them. You can't just cycle applicant's and use each as 4 hours free labour. That's scumbag behaviour.

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West_Category_4634@reddit

Except you can't just pay someone like that as a legitimate business.....unless you make them an employee..... I secured my 1st paid/proper job by working for free for a day for an employer who took a chance/time on someone with no experience. Shrugs. You can't eat your cake and have it. Or if toi don't like it, don't do it.

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Jaraathe@reddit

I love this idea that the employer is benefitting. Robbed as you may feel, if they’re showing you the ropes and not employing you, they’re wasting their own time with this. Time is money, and all that. Legally, they can probably get away with it. There’s no actual law on this. There’s just guidance, so you could take them to court if you like, but if they’re supervising you at all times and grading you, they have all the proof they need that it’s a testing environment. Beyond that, it would be your word against theirs. Personally, if it was a job I wanted and was prepared to do, I’d turn up and take the chance. You definitely won’t get it otherwise.

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TomVonServo@reddit

Yes.

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Flashington1@reddit

If you get the job, estimate how useful you were for those four hours of learning the job... then just "liberate" goods to the value of what you think you're owed. Simples.

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ZeroCool5577@reddit

Ask them before doing the shift.

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BasisOk4268@reddit

100% yes

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fiftyzedned@reddit

I run a business, I'd never expect people to work for nothing. Come and work for free? Nah. It's really bad practice. I wouldn't have the nerve. A trail shift is fair enough but you're still working and should be paid.

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milkypete82@reddit

If you want the job just do the 4 hours, if it works out well you could be working there for years. You may even enjoy the 4 hours.

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arfur-sixpence@reddit

Its "bored with" not "bored of"

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Silly_Tomatillo6950@reddit

Ask and clarify

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DigitalStefan@reddit

Ask them beforehand. If they get moody about it, you just save yourself from doing free labour.

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