2026 - Year of the Linux Phone?
Posted by lokiwhite@reddit | linux | View on Reddit | 280 comments
Okay, the title is tinged with a little sarcasm, but the sentiment is honest. I made a comment on a Linux mobile post about a month ago saying that we were one egregious, unpalatable announcement away from seeing real progress in mobile Linux. With Android’s recent announcement about killing side-loading, is this the opportunity Linux devs need to justify dedicating more resources to mobile Linux?
I have only been using linux for a bit over a year and I am interested to hear from the old-heads on this one. Linux is starting to (modestly) surge in popularity on the desktop/laptop side of things which I know has been years if not decades in the making.
With the current Linux landscape, is there any reason to expect Linux mobile to get increased attention, and if so when would be reasonable to expect mature software that could see wide uptake? From what I have found, it isn’t there yet but I do not have the knowledge to understand how far away this future may be.
ycarel@reddit
Is there anything different this year compared to last year to make Linux in smartphones any different?
lokiwhite@reddit (OP)
On the actual software side, no. What has changed is the motivation and support to develop the software because of the horrible decisions being made by big tech.
ycarel@reddit
Any numbers to support this claim? I don’t think that outside the Linux bubble anyone wants change to occur. There are 2 platforms that work great for most people, have extensive software ecosystem and OEM support. I enjoy using Linux but I don’t really see it making inroads into the mobile phone use case.
Gugalcrom123@reddit
Didn't you hear about Android developer verification?
ycarel@reddit
No I didn’t. What is it about?
Gugalcrom123@reddit
https://news.itsfoss.com/new-android-sideloading-rules/
ycarel@reddit
I don’t see how this affects anyone but a small minority of Android users. It will not create a major exodus away from Android. For most legit app developers it is already something they do for iOS applications. It is actually good to most people to know the can trust the App Store more.
Gugalcrom123@reddit
Sure, if "legit app developers" = corporations. Most apps only on F-Droid will not be signed. Plus it is a matter of principle, seeing our devices locked down for profit. And if you have trust issues, just don't install from outside Google Play! Are you an iSheep?
ycarel@reddit
In your current bubble this might be an issue. Can you quantify how many Android users care about this? Is that enough for many application developers to target Linux? BTW unless you are lucky to have inherited a huge bunch of money I would assume that you work for a corporation. You make it sound like corporations are a bad thing. Actually they are all a bunch of people that are trying to make a living by doing things that keep the economy we all need ticking. One last thing, if you want to be treated seriously stop using stupid things like that iSheep thing. It makes you look really bad.
Gugalcrom123@reddit
It will kill libre software. I have nothing against corporations in general, but against large ones. Plus you don't realise that Google can block developers they don't agree with (think newpipe, termux etc.)
ycarel@reddit
Larger corporations enable an ecosystem of smaller corporations. Where do you draw the line anyway? What will be stopping open source software from being on Android? As long as there is nothing shady about the application why will it not be available? I really don’t see this being something that will push people to migrate from whatever platform they are using now and incentivize software developers to write software for Linux on mobile. Especially due to not having clear specifications of what that actually means. Having stable ABIs and frameworks is crucial for creating a big enough software and hardware ecosystem to make Linux on mobile viable for most users. To me it makes sense to focus more on making open source software available both for iOS and Android where it will get actual use. Linux is awesome, and I love to use it but I don’t see it ever being successful on mobile.
Gugalcrom123@reddit
Google's notion of "shady" isn't the same as yours. Most software on Play is shady. But to Google ad blockers are shady.
ycarel@reddit
Aren’t there ad blockers in the play store?
Gugalcrom123@reddit
They can ban them if they choose to do so, also things like alternative YouTube clients will simply be banned.
Gugalcrom123@reddit
Also do you really think this change is good?
ycarel@reddit
Depending how it is implemented.
BeqaUxu2703@reddit
Are we deadass rn?
absolute-cinema1@reddit
if it has a screen you should install Linux on it I guess
ksandom@reddit
I'm sure they would welcome you. The biggest issue is having enough money/resources to keep things progressing. So the more the merrier.
I'm particularly keen on Sailfish. I wrote a summary here.
But there are other great choices:
Gugalcrom123@reddit
Sailfish C2's bootloader is unlockable???
ksandom@reddit
I don't know. I wouldn't be surprised if it is.
If you're referring to being able to root it. It's a tick box within settings, and has no relationship to the boot loader.
Gugalcrom123@reddit
Why wouldn't you be surprised? I guess it's for the licence fee?
ksandom@reddit
The company behaves very well with the community. It generally does things in a way that is secure by default, but if you want to dig into the details you can. With every sailfish device I've used, I've either had the boot loader unlocked already because I installed Sailfish on the device myself, or I didn't have a need to unlock the bootloader, so I simply haven't tried.
Piece_Maker@reddit
Sailfish is really the answer to a lot of Android would-be refugees. It's SO far along compared to any other alternative. The proprietary Android app container works flawlessly for most things I've thrown at it (yes, including banking apps before anyone mentions those for the 500th time) And the native app ecosystem is pretty good.
My only real gripe is the browser is still rubbish, and there's no PWA support. Plenty of PWA's can fill in lots of gaps where there's no native Sailfish app but it'd be stupid to run the whole Android runtime just for the Android version and I'd love to see them better supported.
Saxasaurus@reddit
Just because it works for the apps you use doesn't mean it will work for every app. If the app uses the Google Play Integrity API, it will not run on non-official Google Android environments. This is a fundamental limitation and cannot be worked around. Some banking apps with this API and some don't.
Piece_Maker@reddit
My main bank is the one with the most customers in my country. So It's a relatively safe bet that at least some people are going to be using the same.
Make_Things_Simple@reddit
Many thanks for sharing, great stuff to read and to get inspired. I've just moved my pc from Windows to Linux and after De-Googling my phone it's also time for Linux on my phone.
lokiwhite@reddit (OP)
Thank you for this! Have some old devices sitting around that I’ll test these on. Surprisingly hard to find info like this so really appreciate the comment.
ksandom@reddit
No worries. You might be interested to look at r/degoogle . With the recent Google side-loading news, it's really come alive with conversation about alternatives.
I hope you find something that works for you.
lokiwhite@reddit (OP)
Joining that sub now. Cheers mate!
vlads_@reddit
There is no opportunity for a Linux phone. I switched to a Mudita Kompakt recently, and use a Samsung A05 for banking apps only. Most people wouldn't juggle two phones like this. And banking apps generally need Play Protect or whatever it's called, the protection validation system that doesn't even work on GrapheneOS.
This isn't an optional requirement. I can only speak for myself here. I live in Romania, and banks are starting to have more and more minimal websites, gating more and more functionality behind the app. At the same time, governments are phasing out cash. It is now illegal to buy more than 10000RON (\~2000 euros) in cash in Romania.
It's quite probable that the EU digital identity app bullshit will probably also be locked behind official Android and iOS versions only.
So, at least in the dystopia that is the EU, iOS and Android are basically unavoidable by government mandate.
deep_chungus@reddit
i understand your issue and it's very serious but there is a point where it doesn't matter.
in the incredibly unlikely event even 20% of people were using linux phones banks would suddenly figure out away for apps to work on it, odds are they're a website stuffed into an app shell anyway
Gugalcrom123@reddit
Exactly, it isn't the fault of any Linux phone project, because they can't just support bank apps, the bank needs to.
wowsuchlinuxkernel@reddit
Don't give up hope, friend. There are still banks in the EU that allow you to do internet banking on their website without a PIN device. Yes, market forces such as selling user tracking data make it more profitable to phase out the website for an app (there is no government mandate for this btw!). Capitalism always goes for the weakest first, in this case the small Romania with weak government regulation. But the fight is far from lost. If banking becomes a must for citizens, we can demand open access to it without gatekeepers such as Play Protect through an accessibility act. There's no reason that the digital identity app can't be built around signed certificates and an open protocol where it's trivial to make your own implementation. Layman lawmakers may not understand the importance of this yet, but that's not insurmountable, and it's up to us not to lose hope but to teach. Engage in your local civil rights and digital rights advocacy groups. Luckily, distrust towards Big Tech is starting to spread among normies, so tell your friends about the fact that both Apple and now also Google control exactly what you may or may not do on your phone. The existence of GDPR and DMA shows us that nerdy lobbying is possible.
Piece_Maker@reddit
Both my banking apps work on Sailfish OS's Android emulator, and also work on every de-Googled custom ROM I've tried them on.
I appreciate that this makes me lucky though compared to some and it's not something I take for granted. I just wanted to point out that for some users the option's still available.
snopolpams@reddit
What would you recommend for someone who hasn't touched custom ROMs for a long ass time?
Piece_Maker@reddit
Usually CalyxOS but they're in limbo right now. Usually I just go barebones Lineage and build it up from there with microG, Obtainium and whatever your favourite launcher is.
Highly recommend SailfishOS if you can wrangle it but you're a bit limited on device choice.
Gugalcrom123@reddit
Cel mai probabil aplicația UE se va folosi de DRM, ca să poată zice ei că rulează local, pentru „intimitate] (oricum așa un sistem nu este intim). Evident că un sistem cu adevărat liber nu va susține acel DRM. În realitate, dacă chiar ar fi nevoie de așa o aplicație, consider că ar trebui folosit un servitor ca să dovedească informația necesară, în niciun caz nu să se creeze un sistem DRM care este oricum extrem de fragil: dacă chiar se dorește, poate fi ocolit ușor, va enerva doar utilizatorii legitimi.
lokiwhite@reddit (OP)
Sorry to hear about the challenges you are facing. Keeping a close eye on the EU decisions as they are have massive global influence.
PastTenceOfDraw@reddit
GrapheneOS is working with a yet to be disclosed manufacturer to create an alternative to Pixel Phones that can ensure the security standards GrapheneOS have set. From my understanding the biggest hurdle for Linux is having access to devices that have high spec for a reasonable price that linux can be installed securely.
kuroimakina@reddit
The biggest hurdle is that device/chip vendors don’t want to release FOSS drivers, don’t want to release any specs to let the community make them, and don’t even want to release Linux closed source drivers. The market isn’t there, for them to expend effort, and they hold their IP so close as if their literal lives depended on it.
Someone could theoretically reverse engineer drivers for a singular phone, like, say, one of the pixel phones - but the very next year there would be a new phone that likely has almost entirely all new chips, and work would need to start almost from scratch again.
That’s why Linux phones don’t exist. And even if someone did all that work, then we’d need to have waydroid or another Android emulator so tightly integrated with the OS as to be almost seamless - because who is going to switch if none of their apps work. Half the people here who say they would would inevitably switch back after a month of constant “oh, I actually need that app.”
We are all frustrated about being held captive by Apple and Google, but the reason their duopoly exists is because of capitalism - not even in a “communism would be a paradise” sort of way or anything stupid like that, but in a “no one wants to work for free. The entire system is built ground up around the exchange of currency for goods. People need money for food, for shelter, for clothing, for everything. Companies demand currency. People work for currency to fulfill their needs.”
As long as we live in a system where everyone’s basic needs must be bought and aren’t just provided, then things like Linux Phones are just not going to be super viable barring some huge miracle angel investor.
This isn’t to say that we shouldn’t still try, but, these posts happen every couple months every time Apple or Google does something shitty, and nothing ever changes.
blackcain@reddit
Great comment - but you know, using open source as infrastructure where companies socialize the engineering is very much socialism, isn't it? If we can do that in tech then we should be able to do that for just basic food and medicine, right?
woj-tek@reddit
I kinda hope that (for example EU) could regulate the s*it out of them and force manufacturers to release drivers and force unlockeable bootloaders...
There is a https://postmarketos.org/ OS but the device support is VERY limited, most likely due to aforementioned shortcommings…
Gugalcrom123@reddit
Not drivers, but at least force them to not lock things down for profit. This means unlockable bootloaders should be required.
woj-tek@reddit
I mentioned bootloaders as well. But with drivers it would be even easier to provide custom builds. In the past it was super difficult to port LineageOS/AOSP to certain devices because there weren't drivers available... :/
Gugalcrom123@reddit
I know but it's unreasonable to make them provide drivers. Starting from the fact that the OS the drivers are for has to be decided. As a compromise it could be mandatory for all their drivers to be libre.
woj-tek@reddit
Erm... I meant in the sense: if you provide Android device then provide drivers for it. Not "provide drivers for all possible OSes" :)
(also, would be awesome if they were indeed libre and allowed/make it easier to port to different OS)
Gugalcrom123@reddit
Libre is needed so they are portable.
Mordiken@reddit
The EU is not going to do anything of the sort in the current geopolitical climate.
woj-tek@reddit
I saw that. BUT! Majority of Android makers are from Asia thus forcing them to provide drivers seems feasible.
Gamiac@reddit
The entire reason they don't want to make the systems open is to prevent competition, right? In that case, wouldn't the entire market be vulnerable to someone going "lol fuck society" and making an open SoC template with similar capibilities to closed systems with FOSS drivers?
natermer@reddit
Probably a lot less important then you think.
It is a added expense for no benefit to themselves.
Open Source driver development is very slow and it is hard to do correctly.
Where as they make their money by getting things working and out the door as quickly as possible.
Almost nobody is going to be interested in buying last year's phone because the drivers are going to be better quality then the current new phone as long as the new phone works well enough.
Gugalcrom123@reddit
But the radio firmware isn't supposed to be modified when modifying the AP's OS.
Green0Photon@reddit
I'm kinda skeptical that all the work resets year to year.
Companies are lazy. They have a lot of manpower, sure, but devs work slowly due to the bureaucracy and complex systems they work in.
It's pointless to remake everything year to year to prevent reverse engineering which isn't even happening. Instead, they're going to keep things mostly the same, but make optimizations and improvements, and add new features.
For example, the M1's GPU AGX is ultimately derived from PowerVR, and that means there ends up being a basis of familiarity and leftover features, like this feature that Apple doesn't use but is useful for OpenGL.
M1 in general is a good example of a reset. It took a lot of great work to get it going. But it itself isn't wholly new either, and then further chips in that line require nowhere near as much work to reverse engineer.
That's because it does. Kind of. Because once one aspect gets reverse engineered, a lot opens up.
But Android is so fragmented that there's so much to reverse engineer and too few people doing so.
(I wish I could find how to learn the skill.)
lokiwhite@reddit (OP)
I am really looking into GrapheneOS, repeatedly hearing it is one of the only true alternatives currently. Have you tried it out? Would you recommend?
peddle-into-the-wind@reddit
I'm on it as I write this. It has its hurdles, but I have not had many issues other than creating a new profile for banking apps as they need some of the exploit protections turned off to even open.
I love the ability to isolate apps down to just internet access. I also like that there are a lot of frequent updates. I'm an infosec person for a living and having constant patches and sandboxing gives peace of mind.
Something to add is Google removing the device tree and the lead developer going to war slowed things down. I am hoping that when graphene combines with this new OEM model, they will figure out a way to let people get around the bullshit Google is doing such as side loading being stripped away. It would even be cool if they just created their own operating system.
Provoking-Stupidity@reddit
Sideloading isn't being stripped away. GrapheneOS have stated this multiple times on an almost daily basis on their X account since the announcement was made.
TiTaN269@reddit
idk I'm broke anyway, I don't need corps deciding if I can install my own project on my phone without doxing myself to google
First-Ad4972@reddit
So I can't install 95% of useful open source apps for android?
huskypuppers@reddit
What's the difference between using a phone or using a computer? If any major Linux distribution locked down to the point of only being able to use "their app store" everyone in this sub would be up in arms and you'd never hear the end of it.
Why difference does it make between a device designed to sit on a desk/table/your lap vs ibe designed to be held in your hand with an extra network interface?
kalzEOS@reddit
There are app developers that you can trust but Google will never allow. Like the revanced app developers. Kiss those good bye. Any app that enables people to bypass Google's ads, say good bye to. On the other hand, I've heard that only apps that use Google services will be blocked if the dev isn't verified. So, you can still install apps that don't use Google services
lokiwhite@reddit (OP)
Thanks, good to have real user feedback. I will try it on an old devices sitting around and see how it fairs.
atgaskins@reddit
Look in to the project leader and how they talk to well intentioned people in the community. Then ask yourself if you are okay with that. If the answers yes then great, but you should be aware at the least.
SilentLennie@reddit
https://e.foundation/e-os/ might be the only alternative, but it supports more phones.
Exact-Event-5772@reddit
Never heard of it. I'll check it out.
On another note, the Pixel is chosen specifically because you can re-lock the bootloader after installing Graphene. Its more secure than just flashing a new rom on most other phones. Which is the whole point.
SilentLennie@reddit
I can get /e/os/ preinstalled:
https://shop.fairphone.com/nl/the-fairphone-gen-6-e-operating-system
(Fairphone not available in the whole world yet)
rhqq@reddit
FP4 user, I would buy anything just to not go fairphone path anymore. nothing they make is truly ethical (they support ccp) nor ecological (they manufacture in ccp) - even Garmin is manufacturing in Taiwan and their markup is not nearly as bad as fairphones. Not to mention that pixels at least have grapheneos that relocks the bootloader - sadly a must be for some banking apps.
PuddingFeeling907@reddit
However Garmin is based in Kansas US.
rhqq@reddit
That's true, but what does it tell us?
Garmin is also not boasting about being ecological or ethical. Yet they have their devices manufactured in Taiwan, a country that has one of the highest rates of effective recycling, waste segregation and generally speaking much higher freedom index than China. And I am not supporting recent Garmins shenanigans with their premium subscription models (in fact I'm heavily against it), but I'm going to point out where the credit is due - they are more ethical and ecological with their operations, than FP will ever be.
PuddingFeeling907@reddit
While I prefer Taiwan over China, I don't want any of my money to go to a fascist state.
SilentLennie@reddit
Fairphone is a less than 200 people company - maybe closer to 100 than 200 (for a smartphone company this is extremely small), I'm impressed how much they have been able to do. I would say they are hitting above their weight. When they started Xi wasn't even in charge yet (China before Xi and even during XI initially was become more and more open over time), changing suppliers is a huge ordeal. I won't judge them as harshly as you.
rhqq@reddit
I don't care, and you did not address any of my points really. They are NOT ethical. They are NOT ecological, every FP phone bought supports the most wasteful (or second to most) society and one of most unethical regimes.
And to use your points against them: it just means they had a long time to switch towards Taiwan or other Asian countries yet - didn't do a thing.
And still, their phone is a no-go to normal people who would like to use banking apps outside of their stock android. So your /e/os is not an option, LineageOS is not an option - unless you root it, then hide the root from banking apps, which break every update, thus requiring you to re-do boot partition all the time in order to stay secure. NOPE. I'll take pixel that's both more ethical and more ecological simply due to economy of scale. Plus GrapheneOS.
SilentLennie@reddit
Hey, I'm just pointing out, they aren't some big corporation that can pivot easily.
I'm not tell you to buy from them or worse forcing you to do so.
rhqq@reddit
I'm here to warn others, that there's no benefit nor reason to buy their devices. At the price of their device I could've had a phone or two with better hardware and still would have the LineageOS. Sadly, LOS is not an option to me anymore, as I have to rely on Revolut, who are acting like assholes :) there are more banking apps to join that wagon, sadly.
SilentLennie@reddit
totally fine of course.
Yeah, things like banking apps is a total mess. I wish Android had a better system.
mordnis@reddit
I don't think your arguments are that good to be honest. The fact that they work with companies from China does not make them as bad or unethical or not ecological.
RileyInkTheCat@reddit
I always disliked that GrapheneOS uses bootloader re-locking as an excuse to not support more phones. It just feels like trying to convince someone to use Secure Boot because of "security". When infact its the first thing I disable when installing Linux, and keep disabled. I surelly dont need it on my PC, and certainly wont on my phone. So this sounds pointless.
other8026@reddit
That's needed for verified boot, which checks that the OS hasn't been tampered with. It's a very important security feature.
RileyInkTheCat@reddit
This is a secuirty theater, just like secure boot on PCs, you as linux users should understand, its the first thing you disable on any PC you want to install Linux on, you keep it disabled because it exists to stop you from using arguably much more secure alternative OSes.
Locked bootloaders on Android are the exact same thing, they exist to stop the user from having control of their own hardware, not to actually secure your device.
shab-re@reddit
it exists to stop unverified apps being installed
lookup evil maid attack
RileyInkTheCat@reddit
This is not at all what an evil maid attack is. Quoting wikipedia: An evil maid attack is an attack on an unattended device, in which an attacker with physical access alters it in some undetectable way so that they can later access the device, or the data on it.
It has nothing to do with installing unverified apps. I myself as the user can already install "unverified" apps on my Android phone by grabbing APKs from Github or F-Droid.
A locked bootloader doesnt entirelly prevent either, it does however prevent me, the user, from installing my prefered OS of choice. Limiting my user freedom on hardware I spent my own money on.
It is a feature with the sole intent of limiting user freedom.
20230630@reddit
No it does not, I have always had secure boot enabled on my PC and laptop and Linux has worked. Granted that hasn't always been the case but nowadays there is no reason to disable secure boot.
RileyInkTheCat@reddit
I am aware you can configure secure boot to work with Linux, and some distros do that automatically for you
But frankly theres hardly any benefit. The only time it could help you is to ward off an attacker with physical access from modifying your bootloader with malicious code. But at that point, clearing CMOS and disabling Secure Boot are not hard for this hypotetical attacker.
Since most distros cannot actually be booted or installed with secure boot enabled or without rolling your own keys, breaking Window's secure boot in the process. Its simply more hassle than its worth.
And lets not pretend Secure Boot was invented with any good intentions, it was first and foremost Microsoft's attempt at locking down the PC platform.
Exact-Event-5772@reddit
As far as I know, it definitely works on other phones. They just cant guarantee compatibility.
RileyInkTheCat@reddit
Wait this changes everything, how can I go about installing Graphene on a non-pixel phone? Their website seems to alude you can only install it on a Pixel phone. Is there documentation for getting Graphene on say, an ASUS phone for example?
Exact-Event-5772@reddit
I honestly have no idea. Sorry mate. Lol
I've just seen posts in the past where people had it running on I believe Samsung devices?
RileyInkTheCat@reddit
I have tried looking it up again, there legitimally is no documentation. I found a forum post where someone mentioned you might be able to load device trees and recompile Graphene to get it on non-pixel phones. I have no clue how to do that and is more work than I am willing to put in to maybe use an alternative OS. So my initial complaint still stands. Being locked to Pixel phones sucks, and the excuse of "relockable bootloader" sounds like complete BS.
Ossur2@reddit
Isn't /e/ just LineageOS with microG ? So it is dependent on Android
SilentLennie@reddit
So is GrapheneOS
bankroll5441@reddit
Can also confirm that graphene works great, I'm also typing this from GrapheneOS. I like it because its as secure and minimal as you want it to be. Stock graphene ships barebones, not even preloaded wallpaper. The only preloaded apps are basically phone, messages, vanadium, and graphenes app store. Anything else you add to the phone, whether it be apps or google services, is entirely up to the user.
The security features do have some caveats like some apps not working, but usually there's work arounds for that (turning off exploit compatibility mode for banking apps). RCS compatibility is also a deal breaker for some, as I believe you can only get that from google messages, which can be downloaded and used, it most people don't as most are trying to get away from google. Personally I push family/friends to use signal and if they don't, standard SMS is what they get.
The stock camera app used to be pretty bad with post processing but theyve made a ton of improvements recently to where the photos like almost identical as photos from googles camera app.
For me, I love it because google services only run if I choose for it to run. Even then its unprivileged (play services essentially runs as root on stock android). You also have granular control on app permissions, you can easily not give an app access to your network, and with storage scopes only give apps access to folders you designate that they get access to. You also have sandboxed profiles that cannot access any data on other profiles, which is useful for things like work, a play services profile, tor, etc.
Sorry for the essay, but overall I've had a great experience. The biggest caveat is that they only run on google hardware, but most people just get a refurbished pixel so the money doesn't go directly to google. As it was already said, they are currently working with an OEM to move away from that reliance.
lokiwhite@reddit (OP)
Don’t apologise, an essay is appreciated. GrapheneOS is getting some proper testimonials here and really seems the way to go.
mordnis@reddit
How is the battery life? I expect an improvement considering google services are not running all the time.
bankroll5441@reddit
Correct it is better without all the bloatware. I have tailscale running 24/7 on my pixel (7 pro), and the battery lasts me the whole day with normal use. Tailscale is known to be a battery killer
dve-@reddit
I have been through a LOT of these alternative systems and devices. Even my first smartphone was a Linux Phone in 2010:
The N900 was a nostalgic and probably the best for the time. Every app open source and I wrote my own apps.
Honorary mention to SailfishOS. I was impressed with the battery life and the Waydroid-Emulation to use Whatsapp. It worked great and you wouldn't feel any difference. But I had to switch because of Audio issues. No joke: it used Pulseaudio and the server crashed quite often. I had to use a script to kill and restart the daemon. If only the audio issue wasn't there, I would have stayed. But it did not feel very secure. Barely any security updates, especially for the web engine. So I used Brave Browser's apk with Waydroid.
But in the end, GrapheneOS is the best modern option. I feel even more secure than on vanilla Linux because you can easily revoke network permissions. I have no issues using proprietary apps, as long as they don't have network. Particularly important for Gboard or Microsoft Swift Keyboard. You can use the best keyboard without getting keylogged in that way.
lokiwhite@reddit (OP)
Great comment, this is an area I want to know in greater depth so thanks for telling me the different ones you have tried. Your recommendation of Graphene is really meaningful seeing as you’ve been through some many alternate OS’s. It really seems the way to go.
natermer@reddit
GrapheneOS is legit.
Most third party Android makers are just interested in adding customization options and such things.
Were as GrapheneOS is focused on correctness and security.
It is a different mentality and a lot of people who are used to installing their own OSes to enable features are going to be very frustrated, but it is worth it.
Just read through the documentation understand what they are trying to do and the additions they made to do it.
EvensenFM@reddit
I'm using it right now on a Pixel tablet.
It works just fine. The sandboxing works extremely well. It significantly helps improve battery life by not transmitting data to Google all the time.
I have had no problems or complaints in the two years I've been using it.
-eschguy-@reddit
I didn't know it was supported on the tablet! Which one do you have?
EvensenFM@reddit
Just the original Pixel tablet.
-eschguy-@reddit
I run it on my Pixel 8 Pro and it's been great.
PastTenceOfDraw@reddit
I installed it on a Pixel 6 with a cracked screen that someone was turning in for credit. I played around with Graphene0S while they didn't need it but before they needed to send it in. And then factory reset it.
I enjoyed it and tried to install it on my current Pixel 6 but it was a refurbished phone that was originally under verizon and they locked down the OEM. I'm looking forward to getting a new pixel that will accept Graphene0S.
In short, I like it but I have little experience with it.
lokiwhite@reddit (OP)
I just so happen to have a pixel 6 lying around so this was the most relevant comment possible, cheers!
genius_retard@reddit
You should definitely try it if you already have the hardware. Installing GrapheneOS is the slickest, easiest alternative OS I have installed on a phone.
I installed GrapheneOS on a brand new Pixel 7 before I ever used the stock OS so I don't really know what I'm missing.
PastTenceOfDraw@reddit
Jealous!
The step by step instructions on Graphene0S's site are good. Since you have been on Linux for a year as long as you take your time and go step by step you will be fine.
lokiwhite@reddit (OP)
Thanks a bunch!
ten-oh-four@reddit
I have it on my Pixel 9 Pro. It works very well. I have two profiles set up fully sandboxed from one another - a personal and a work profile. I really have enjoyed using it and plan to continue doing so.
CortaCircuit@reddit
I have been using it for almost four years now, and I will never go back to a stock Android phone.
Odd_Taste9664@reddit
Will it support Xiaomi, OPPO, vivo and other brand phones?
atgaskins@reddit
Just gotta deal with a petty, vindictive, controlling and unstable project leader and hope the software never starts to reflect their mental state. Their documented conversations with well meaning folks have turned me off of the project
Gugalcrom123@reddit
It is not a Linux phone though.
PastTenceOfDraw@reddit
Whether GrapheneOS makes it a Linux phone or not I think it's a good gage of progress on Linux phones.
Gugalcrom123@reddit
Why is it progress on Linux phones? It brings privacy but not freedom.
RileyInkTheCat@reddit
Not original commenter, but this exactly. I want a phone I can install my OS of choice on, be it Graphene or any Linux distro of choice.
Having a phone where I am locked into Graphene is no better than the current status quo, where I am locked to the phone vendor's specific version of Android.
Gugalcrom123@reddit
And even if they don't lock the BL, most likely it won't have GNU/Linux drivers.
RileyInkTheCat@reddit
I agree, but in the event we could get the bootloader unlocked, it would mean anyone could try reverse engineering a driver and getting a custom OS installed. But theres hardly any point on doing so if you cant even unlock the bootloader to begin with now is there?
Gugalcrom123@reddit
Even on unlockable devices — Google Pixel for example — it is very hard to boot Linux, not even talking about running it correctly with cameras and modems.
NotSnakePliskin@reddit
Another GrapheneOS user here, have been for a few years. I made the switch from an iPhone once my privacy eyes were opened. If the GOS guys figure out a new non-pixel hardware platform, I'll be standing in line for that device. Really dig the pixel hardware, but it's just a vehicle for GOS.
huskypuppers@reddit
Ugh, GrapheneOS... I only use it because it's the best that's out there current but the developers treating us all like children and not allowing root really irks me
Duckers_McQuack@reddit
So phones would need quite powerful specs to meet security standards?
PastTenceOfDraw@reddit
Good specs to meet user needs. The larger market wants a phone that keeps up with the cool kids. For a Linux phone to be successful it needs to be attractive to a large market and one of those needs is shiny new specs. Also things like app capability.
kalzEOS@reddit
I don't normally say this, but take my fucking money 💰.
damodread@reddit
Oh, didn't know that! Have they communicated about this or is it speculation based on repo activity or something?
Moscato359@reddit
I think you mean year of the non google linux phone.
Android IS linux.
The year of the linux phone was 2008.
Rerfect_Greed@reddit
Android is BUILT off Linux, but it's a very stripped down and HEAVILY customized version of Linux
Moscato359@reddit
It's still using the linux kernel, just with a patchset.
The userspace is very different however than what people usually call the linux experience.
Gugalcrom123@reddit
It is Linux, but not Unix-like.
Moscato359@reddit
Sure.
I can agree to that.
ElephantWithBlueEyes@reddit
No, it's not.
Also people get that "killing side-loading" phrase wrong. Sideload is when you do
adb installand it doesn't work. Devs will need to do more hops, for end-use nothing will change (Apple is still more painfull for devs).If you want to say "but muh F-Droid" i'd say it has very limited range of apps and they're often outdated. And still only devs will suffer. Are you a dev?
We have Sailfish around for pretty much long time (since 2013?) and it's still underground. So Linux for phones is virtually dead. Ubuntu Touch is unusable and works on 3.5 modern devices. But it works good on my Nexus 5 from 2013...
Keep in mind that "normal" people don't care about all that stuff and they're majority. They just use their phones with no need to shoot their feet with degoogling (if i get it right "degooglers" go back to google services at some point, so don't be delusional). And probaly most funny thing is that security stuff people keep talking about mentioning GrapheneOS. IT"S NOT POSSIBLE TO BE 100% SECURE. You need you own infosec dept in your pocket and it still won't guarantee you privacy.
Overall your post is kind of naive because you've been using Linux only for 1 year, i bet you're not contributing and are just yet another opensource "preacher" who make \~0 impact. See how much devs go through. It's the deeds (MRs and pull requests) that are matter, not yet another highly theoretical post. So if you want changes go for them, learn programming, find your tribe of another learners and do something.
Gugalcrom123@reddit
The problem is hardware, no programming can change that the hardware is just not there
FrNW4@reddit
6a. 3.5 years old. GOS from day one. Zero problems.
Gugalcrom123@reddit
GrapheneOS. Is. Not. Real. Linux. Android. By. Definition. Is. A. Java. OS. Graphene. Provides. Privacy. But. Not. Freedom.
ElephantWithBlueEyes@reddit
GrapheneOS is AOSP fork so you're still using Google.
Historical_Roll3325@reddit
The problem is not just the baseband vendors, it’s the telecom companies. (They need to whitelist all devices that can use their network, or atleast many work like that).
Add to that the fact that hardware vendors take years (like 3 to 5) to release the required details to use said hardware. And the fact that the main thing Linux phones suck at is the calling bit…. And you will understand why 2026 won’t be the year of the Linux phone either. (We did win the war regarding NIX, since 99% of all phones are a NIX version.
And having said all that, I am not demising any of the amazing work the people at GrafeneOS have done, we just need a flagship that runs a FOSS os.
And that would require some massive buy in or venture capital to get buy in.
Gugalcrom123@reddit
The thing is that if you separate the modem from the AP as done in laptops, you can get around much of it.
Resorization@reddit
Once I had a dream about a repository full of software and hardware designs that can be used to build fully open source smartphones. Apps were web based, hardware was limited to stuff a tinkerer could easily order, or salvage. Anything that could be compatible between platforms, was...
Sadly I have not enough idea about hardware design to start a project like this.
But honestly? If I could order a kit with a mobo and screen, connect parts of my choosing, maybe use a Raspi CM4 or CM5 as brain, 3D print a case, I'd love doing it. Give me MY clunky, fugly phone. You can keep the Samsung A56, I don't even really own.
Of course it couldn't have the same form factor as modern phones. Which is good because it's boring. Give me a smartphone integrated into a prosthetic arm. Or a smartphone with screen and peripherals separated from the "brain", so I can have a tiny screen in my pocket with a powerhouse in my backpack. Wanna a T9 keyboard on your Linux terminal which is also your smartphone? Ii don't know why, but no problem!
Gugalcrom123@reddit
Look up the Spirit phone. I am thinking of making something similar but using another compute module for lower energy use.
Raunhofer@reddit
I hope HMD (ex Nokia) will see an opening for a great new Linux phone. Would be a perfect match.
Erki82@reddit
Jolla is the real ex-Nokia and they sell Linux phone today. HMD is using just Nokia brand, not spiritual successor.
Gugalcrom123@reddit
I hope they make one with a keyboard
Raunhofer@reddit
"Real" or not, I see better odds for succeeding under HMD.
Erki82@reddit
Under HMD succeeding in making Android phones, yes. Android phone manufactures do not have plan to develope open-source Linux opsys phones.
alexbottoni@reddit
No, it won't be. Making a *working* Linux phone is mainly a matter of hardware, not software. If you cannot rely on a large, dependable supply of *open* smartphones, you cannot install Linux (or enything else) on any hardware.
At the moment, all of the main phone makers are either openly hostile to Linux or they are prevented to collaborate with the Linux community by their government (USA, China, etc.) or by some "big player" in their arena (Apple, Microsoft, Google, etc.).
We do hope to have some good alternative in the near future (Fair Phone, Nitro Phone and so on) but... it is just hope.
Gugalcrom123@reddit
Fairphone doesn't actually support Linux.
gsdev@reddit
For a Linux phone to succeed it needs to provide the most important services:
If it can do all that, people will be willing to use it.
(Then comes marketing. Average users won't be persuaded by talk of sideloading or FOSS, there has to be a unique selling point).
Gugalcrom123@reddit
Besides banking (which is the banks' job to implement, we simply can't) I think it does everything.
pppjurac@reddit
From just about same post someone else made two days ago and OP does not know how search function works.
Linux Phone is dead end.
It is user software that counts. Linux phones are essentially useless as daily driver : can't pay with NFC, can't go to web banking, can't run Strava, Garmin Connect, GPX viewers, Locus maps, offline tools, nada.
l0d@reddit
I believe SailfishOS can run most of the apps you mentioned. Some will be a pain to get working and there isn't any chance to get mobile payment in a foreseeable future, at least some of the banking apps will work...
krakarok86@reddit
So there is no chance to displace Android/iOS. The regular users doesn't want to feel "pain", he just wants his apps to work.
l0d@reddit
Well, you have to start somewhere. It's a bit of a catch22. To get native apps you need a lot of users, to get the users you need a lot of apps…
krakarok86@reddit
The problem is that I don't see any reason how an alternative mobile OS could gain a relevant market's share. What's the killer feature that makes it different and the 2 main OSes (Android and iOS) do not or can't deliver? Is there a reason why average Joe should want to switch to the alternative OS?
l0d@reddit
I mean this is a linux sub, that's the audience you can target with an open OS. You're absolutely right to target casual users everything has to work and you need some kind of coolness factor to sell devices. A new OS needs a lot of time to get there. That's nothing what will change the market anytime soon.
SailfishOS is already around for 10+ Years, but the average Joe doesn't even know it exists. But perhaps Google's move will help Jolla gain a bit more attention. (or any other alternative, ROM scene right now is also pretty dead)
Piece_Maker@reddit
Banking apps yes, mobile payments no. Also Garmin Connect won't work because the Android runtime doesn't support using Bluetooth devices with it (with the exception of audio devices for some reason, so you can at least use your bluetooth headphones with Messenger or Whatsapp calls).
xgui4@reddit
i hope so, i dont want to go to Crapple or have a worse iOS which is what android is become sadly...
Exciting_Turn_9559@reddit
I'd settle for a community fork of android with all of google's tentacles amputated.
Shished@reddit
Lineageos is already available.
other8026@reddit
LineageOS is less de-Googled than GrapheneOS https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm. But I can see how some people don't like that the only supported devices are Pixels, but that will very likely change very soon when the big OEM GrapheneOS is working with releases devices with official GrapheneOS support.
TrekkiMonstr@reddit
My issue with Graphene is more that the main dev seems to be an insane person ngl
other8026@reddit
Assuming I know which person you're talking about, he's not the lead developer anymore. He stepped down from that position mostly because he wasn't as productive due to harassment. There are multiple full time developers. And I can assure you he's not insane.
TrekkiMonstr@reddit
Yeah I'm still avoiding that whole situation tbh
genpfault@reddit
De-mangled link: https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm
Gugalcrom123@reddit
Will these devices have unlockable bootloader
Ossur2@reddit
There is also LineageOS with microG - which is fully degoogled and works great
other8026@reddit
I'd disagree with that take. What's the point of microG in the first place? It's only useful for apps that come packaged with Google libraries. MicroG still has to communicate with Google, needs privileged access to spoof its signature, and apparently has to download and use some Google binaries for certain features. Using microG isn't exactly deGoogling.
Also worth mentioning that many Google libraries that depend on Google Play Services have fallbacks when Google Play and Google Play Services aren't installed or are disabled. So, even on devices without something like Google Play or microG, those libraries will still work. So to fully deGoogle, people need to not install Google Play, Google Play Services, microG, and any app with Google libraries included in them.
h3ron@reddit
and a second phone for banking apps
Exciting_Turn_9559@reddit
I have a computer and going to an ATM periodically is a small price to pay for freedom.
berryer@reddit
every now and then you run into something only supported via app, e.g. transferring a 401k into Fidelity without waiting weeks for a mailed check + processing.
Exciting_Turn_9559@reddit
Less convenient does not equal not supported.
berryer@reddit
True, but waiting several weeks can mean thousands in lost gains. Keeping a spare old phone is handy for stuff like this, even without cellular plan on it. It can stay off in a drawer until needed & just use wifi.
Ossur2@reddit
This is really just a choice made the banks. In my country there is a small bank that provides an app that is fully functional without google or any of the big corporation. It's just a question of finding those banks and supporting them by giving them your business.
RedSquirrelFtw@reddit
CalyxOS or GrapheneOS are basically that.
H0t4p1netr33S@reddit
Calyx project is inactive now. There was some kind of leadership shuffle and Nick and the lead dev ended up departing the project. The new leadership has discontinued the project pending a code rebuild. The r/calyxos sub has a bunch of posts on it.
vim_deezel@reddit
really? dang that was the one I used before switching to apple devices (life got busy) Glad graphene and lineage are still around.
RedSquirrelFtw@reddit
Oh wow had no idea! Good to know then... Guess for my next phone I will go with Graphene.
not_some_username@reddit
So custom rom then ? It already exists. The biggest problems are the drivers
CortaCircuit@reddit
That's basically Graphene OS.
FLMKane@reddit
Replicant os is one such project I think
lokiwhite@reddit (OP)
Same, and maybe that is more realistic. I am happy with any truly open-source option, happy for that to be an android fork.
NoobTejas@reddit
Well one can try to port GSIs to existing mobile kernels like lineage os kernel so this way porting the OS to more devices can me much easier. Those kernels already has Board support package for a large no of devices.
Fohqul@reddit
We've barely gotten a foothold in the desktop market we aren't doing the mobile one any time soon bro 🙏🙏
deep_chungus@reddit
desktop share will drag mobile along with it, but yeah 10 years before 5% mobile is my guess
Fohqul@reddit
Barely. The success of a desktop OS isn't correlated to it as a mobile OS and Windows Phone is a perfect example of that
deep_chungus@reddit
i'd take issue with that, if windows phones were just some random OS unrelated to windows i suspect it wouldn't have gotten even as much traction as it did
if MS had a much better strategy the running start their desktop monopoly at that time would have definitely won them a much bigger market share, it sure as hell wouldn't have made it to 2% without it
Fohqul@reddit
But that's exactly my point. For Microsoft Windows, with its landslide majority market share in the desktop space, a few percentage points is relatively pathetic. If even it couldn't compete, Linux on mobile certainly won't anytime soon.
deep_chungus@reddit
so you're saying the same thing, cool
lokiwhite@reddit (OP)
Yeah, I really wouldn’t want mobile development to come at the risk of desktop. Desktop is really starting to make a mark and that is more important imo
str0m965@reddit
If EU chat control proposal If the EU’s proposal for chat control passes, it could push people toward alternative operating systems.
woj-tek@reddit
not it won't... people are unaware or don't care about it
hexydes@reddit
Most people are, that's true, but the world is made up of over 8 billion people. If only 1% of people care about ethics, privacy, and security, that's still 800 million people! Going even further if only 1% of that 800 million people are able to take action on this, it's still 80 million people and that's absolutely enough for a stable consumer market.
It would be interesting to start with 1% of that 1% of that 1% (8 million users) and try to crowd-source something around a phone like this. With a minimum order quantity of 10k units, something like that should be possible to build an initial base of demand.
woj-tek@reddit
Riiiight... but the EU is only ~400 million. And 1% of that is 4 million.
But that aside - 1% is proverbial "statistical error" and usually don't even register as possible "target market" (see Linux and macOS as target for gaming) :/
hexydes@reddit
It depends on the size of your total addressable market. So if your starting value is like 1 million users, that gets us down to 1,000 users...a statistical error, like you said. But if I can get a total addressable market of 4-8 million users as a startup...that's a pretty solid market. And of course, that's just your initial market, because once you have momentum, you can continue to grow your pie even larger to the TRUE total addressable market of whatever portion of the human race has a cell phone. :)
woj-tek@reddit
Well, I just addressed your initial number (and assumption). And you, for some reason, assume ~1% users being interested so there's that :)
all in all - they probably do market research ;)
NeoliberalSocialist@reddit
1% of 800 million is 8 million not 80.
hexydes@reddit
Sorry, added one more 1%.
woj-tek@reddit
nitpick: If you add 1% to 8 million you would get 8,8 million :P
If you wanted to say "1pp" (percent point) so 2% in total, that would still give you 16 million ;)
Ossur2@reddit
this is simply not true! Also, the corp solutions tend to grow crusty, bloated and barely functional over time. I find even the most non-technological people are impressed and interested by both the booting speed and stability of my almost 20 yr old linux laptop. Actually, half of the linux users I personally know are also the most non-technologically minded people I know, because they place the highest value on stability and hassle-free environment.
woj-tek@reddit
first of all: I referred to chat controll pushing users to linux - it won't happen as people don't care about their data.
as for linux - a lot of anectodal evidence? For example I don't even know anyone using linux in my bubble :)
Espumma@reddit
Yeah like all 12 of us
str0m965@reddit
That would at least double the size of the community. /s
lokiwhite@reddit (OP)
Completely agree. Linux isn’t going to get a foot in the door by beating the competition technologically or functionally, but on principle by being ethical, secure, and truly open-source.
Swizzel-Stixx@reddit
N+1 is the year of the linux (x)
ElephantWithBlueEyes@reddit
classics
ManyPersonality2399@reddit
I hope so, but doubt it. How many people honestly side load? And how many of them view this as something to change over?
xuedi@reddit
The year of the Linux phone is already finished, it was 15 years ago, 2010 was the year of the
Nokia N900
Perfect functioning Linux phone for the time, in any way better than android and apple
Funes-o-memorioso@reddit
Linux mobile with FOSS appstore would be fucking awesome
10leej@reddit
I mean Pine64 put a lot of work into the PinePhone and the community around it kinda just died off.
That was the last Linux phone I can remember.
Alive-Welcome-4809@reddit
In order to bootstrap the Linux phone ecosystem with a store that contains the apps which any phone requires e.g. WhatsApp, banking etc. a Linux phone should be created which runs Android through a VM in parallel to its new store. Then people can move over and adopt open alternatives as they are developed.
l0d@reddit
SailfishOS has android support. Messenger and many banking apps do work. But if you want something like mobile payment, you still need a android/ios phone.
Alive-Welcome-4809@reddit
In that case I’m very keen to give it a go! Thank you.
Alive-Welcome-4809@reddit
Chatgippity told me that in practice Google prevents VMs from running a bunch of apps for “security reasons” which is their justification for shutting down the competition.
Kelvin62@reddit
If Google converts Android into a IOS clone we will have Linux phones by 2027.
mr_doms_porn@reddit
I hope so, I'm so fed up with android. I love my Linux systems, it's brought joy back to being a tech nerd again. It's an uphill battle though, there are very few phones that can be used with Linux and most of them are very weak and slow. This reduces the motivation for developers to work on mobile Linux distros so they tend to be buggy and missing features. It's really too bad, GNOMEs UI lends itself really well to touch use and smaller screens and ARM is already widely supported by the Linux community, if we could get solid devices and more effort into the distros themselves, Linux phones would be incredible.
PuddingFeeling907@reddit
Google is going to regret this blunder.
anthony_doan@reddit
I don't think so unless someone tries to sell a mobile phone with steamOS on it.
It's the only viable solution I see.
lokiwhite@reddit (OP)
Steam phone. Have never thought of that one but that sounds interesting. They are releasing a home console soon so maybe they have bigger hardware ambitions
anthony_doan@reddit
Steam have the incentive to go with Linux for their gaming business.
They don't want to get gatekeep with Microsoft or Apple or any other vendor.
They are also a private company that make tons of money. Gaming on mobile is sensible choice for them. So I reckon this is the only company that would be able to make Linux on mobile phones possible.
Plus Gab needs more money for his yatch collections haha.
Gugalcrom123@reddit
If one that has more than 4GB RAM and a well-integrated physical keyboard appears, they can take my money.
NordschleifeLover@reddit
No.
sm222@reddit
I'm sorry but until I can use tap to pay or NFC payment I'm never switching to a Linux phone as much as I'd love to.
Ossur2@reddit
Why? Why not just have a creditcard?
sm222@reddit
The convenience of it is really nice, I can go on a run and not have to worry about taking my wallet, I can just buy what I need to buy on the way home.
I've gotten used to it to the point where I don't think it's a compromise I'd be willing to make, I did some research and it turns out depending on the bank there can be alternatives or you can use a watch instead but google pay wont work.
Ossur2@reddit
If carrying a thin plastic card is too much of a burden, I don't know what to tell you man
FunManufacturer723@reddit
The Windows Phone died because not enough apps were present on the platform.
Until a Linux based phone can let me use my electronic id and my bank’s micro payment app, it is a dead horse for me.
yansen92@reddit
Is Linux really that popular in desktop and laptop now a days?
NocturneSterling@reddit
Like 5% market share, going up fast (especially with windows 11 requirements)
TheBeardedDen@reddit
lol. Not that high. You overshot it by double.
chat-lu@reddit
5% of the web traffic is coming from Linux, but only 35% from Windows. Mobile makes a large chunk of the traffic. Many people no longer have a deskop or laptop.
deep_chungus@reddit
if linux desktops are getting 5% of all web traffic it's going way better than i thought
chat-lu@reddit
It's 5% according to the US government.
https://analytics.usa.gov/
SilentLennie@reddit
Pretty certain that 5% is sadly just 5% of all desktops.
Cats7204@reddit
I remember it being 2% on 2020.
NocturneSterling@reddit
Yeah enshitification is really working in our favor.
Year of the Linux desktop is so soon I can feel it
lannistersstark@reddit
You lot have been saying this for twenty years.
Mordiken@reddit
26, actually.
lokiwhite@reddit (OP)
It really depends on what metric and what region you look at. Some people look at gaming, where Steam OS is driving a growth in Linux use. Linux use seems to be really growing in countries like India.
Overall global usage is ticking up slowly, so there is growth but we are still only talking 5-6% market share at the absolute max in consumer electronics.
(To pre-empt some responses here it the usual disclaimer that Linux is everywhere for servers and Android is also technically linux-based)
Adorable-Fault-5116@reddit
It depends on what "linux use" means imo. I don't count the Steam deck as "using linux", at least not by default, because 95% of people will never leave the Steam UI. The PS2 was also running linux, but we wouldn't count that as linux usage for similar reasons.
TBC I do think linux desktop usage is rising, in part due to hitting the influencer circuit recently.
lokiwhite@reddit (OP)
Yeah genuinely. The influencer aspect is a real chicken or egg situation. Are influencers driving normal usage, or are they just good indicators of a wider shift? Hard to say. One way or the other they are a canary in the coal mine.
FaithlessnessWest176@reddit
No, 99% of population doesn't even sideload apps anymore unless it's to have some cracked premium version, to a certain extent to them it's safer to have it killed than to be there, most of them have an iPhone anyway so the concept of sideload isn't considered at all.
The sun will continue to rise early in the morning and to set late in the afternoon.
By the way Google isn't killing proper sideloading, the news has been widely used to clickbait a lot, they are planning to limit sideload to signed packages, while a limitation to the actual situation where anyone and their nephew can make an apk and install it, they are not killing anything, we just need to see how they will enforce the rule.
Another thing is: Linux on phones is on a soo early stage that they aren't even in the game to take the place of custom ROM, let alone being considered as OS, it's been a thing on desktops for even longer and now is just reaching relevant percentages, on phones it's even worse, being totally realistic
Mr_Patat@reddit
"Linux is starting to (modestly) surge in popularity on the desktop/laptop" since 2008 and... never exceed 5% at best.
I would add that while ease of use on a PC is one of the criteria for widespread audience, it is THE number one criterion on smartphones, added to communication compatibility with all media.
So at best, there will be a small increase, but clearly not enough to declare 2026 the year of Linux phones.
vim_deezel@reddit
Looks like soon (next couple years) google will lock down their phones from side loading and that will probably involve adding a boot locker to make it very hard to casually root their phones for linux or more open android systems like calyx. It's looks pretty gloomy to be honest unless Chinese vendors do something to attempt to tap the market. That said you won't have your 99% of your current apps on a real Linux (non-Android) phone. So it will be a huge step down if you are a heavy mobile user and it's not just a texting/browsing/calls machine for you. I wish there were more web apps tbh.
Ossur2@reddit
People need to be willing to spend more money on their phone if they want a functional Linux phone. A linux phone could easily last a decade anyway so it'd be worth it - this needs to be a part of the pitch, because the big corp will underbid and outcompete on the manufacturing front, that is a given.
seiha011@reddit
Linux-phone? 2026? No ;-)
kalzEOS@reddit
2046*
Skycan45@reddit
Enlighten Us With More Information u/lokiwhite Because Your More Than A Friend Little Bro You’re A Legend
deadlyrepost@reddit
Partly the issue is software, but a huge, huge part of the issue is hardware:
I literally have a phone which has mainlined the code, but I still can't run an OSS kernel & software stack on it. I'd have to fiddle around on it for a while and after all that, the actual radio likely wouldn't work (only wifi), and it would only solve the problem for people using my particular phone model (and remember the same phone "model" can actually be like 3 models depending on where you are on earth).
jmnugent@reddit
Someone should invent something that's not a phone. Like,. a lot of the problems you describe have evolved over decades of being wrapped around something pretty proprietary.. it might be time to just supercede that with something new.
It would have to be something that can verify identity (obviously because you need to be able to accurately identify who you are contacting and ensure it's them)
It would also have to be something that can maintain some sort of reliable connectivity.
I know Verizon is in the early alpha stages of testing Voice and Data to AST Mobile satellites,.. so maybe in the future there will be some sort of affordable satellite-communicator that can entirely bypass old school earth based landlines.
usbeehu@reddit
I want Linux Phone to be a thing. I'm so done with big tech. Too bad, hadware support is awful. For example the most recent Pixel supported by Ubports is 3A. For real.
twitterfluechtling@reddit
Nope. People use phones for WhatsApp, banking apps, trading etc. Afaik, none of the required apps is available for Linux and all require Google Android libraries/services. As long as the Industry sees Google Android and any additional lock-down as a security feature, thus not making these apps available for open phones, people will stick to Google Android.
And that's coming from me, someone who uses Linux at home exclusively for 25 years, and at work as the primary system for about 15 years (for a while I had to maintain a Windows VM or a Windows laptop in parallel for meetings and outlook, other than that it was all Linux).
I wish Open Source phones would become more prevalent. This would be a crucial topic for the EU in the context of digital sovereignty. With open source Android, it shouldn't be too difficult to replace Google services with something EU-driven, mandate banks operating in EU to have mobile clients without Google service dependence, step Facebook on its toes by regulating the shit out of WhatsApp (with their new AI features, e.g.), and advertise open source end to end encryption - unfortunately, that clashes with EU plans for mass surveillance.
swn999@reddit
Android 16 has a Linux VMware now… And isn’t android already Linux? ( cheeky laugh).
Duckers_McQuack@reddit
Indeed. I just got into fedora myself on my main rig, and i'm 3/7 ssd's into moving files and formatting them into BTRFS. And i've been wanting a mobile linux which can also sandbox android apps.
nicman24@reddit
Just buy phones with unlockable bootloaders. You won't be able to use apps that need attestation anyways with Linux phones so just use a GSI and microg or gapps
Erki82@reddit
Jolla C2 is useable Linux phone. Writing this from Jolla C2 with Sailfish OS and using Fennec browser installed from F-Droid.
Modern_Doshin@reddit
(Looks at Ubuntu touch) Still not ready. Even Window phones aren't popular commonly found in the wild,
not_some_username@reddit
Unless they make their own hardware or the phone manufacturer open source their drivers, it will not happen
RedSquirrelFtw@reddit
The biggest issue with the phone ecosystem is that everything is designed to practically require either Apple or Android with Google (ex: not custom rom). You need an account and to be on either of those OSes in order to get apps from their store. Yeah there are alternate apps, but if your work requires you to install some kind of app, or you buy a product that requires an app, or government requires an app (coming eventually when they force digital ID) then you need access to the store in order to install it so any form of custom rom or custom phone won't be able to get those apps. I try my best to avoid these apps altogether but it's getting harder and harder. I've even seen ISPs require an app just to configure the modem. I absolutely hate the way they've designed the phone ecosystems to essentially revolve around 2 major corporations.
lokiwhite@reddit (OP)
Good to hear your experience. I am going to try things out on an alternate device, but running non-Android and non-iOS only is a pipe dream at this point which really bums me out.
perseuspfohl@reddit
Remember when they asked this in 2010, then 2025, then 2020 😂
lokiwhite@reddit (OP)
Catch you in 2030 👍👍👍
PapaOscar90@reddit
No.
lokiwhite@reddit (OP)
Short and sweet. I respect it.
SFSIsAWESOME75@reddit
x86-64 and uefi phones would be nice
Sataniel98@reddit
I'd be all for it. Android's "multi tasking" is so terrible it reminds me more of task switching in DOS than a proper modern OS. Android is everything bad about Windows but 10 years ahead in the enshittification process. If I can tell it goodbye for a proper Debian family Linux distro and not something that's still Android based, I won't even think about it.
RedSquirrelFtw@reddit
Somehow Apple is even worse. I don't understand how it's so popular. Any time I try to use an Apple device, even a mac, trying to switch between programs is a pain.
Anyusername7294@reddit
Yeah... Sure
Individual_Taste_133@reddit
Ça serait probablement une 1er en terme de fabrication linux. Mais si des constructeurs proposent un appareil qui fait smartphone et pc ça vaut le coup que ce soit à certains prix .
Je vois qu'il y a un rockchip avec du cortex a76, ce n'est pas le plus puissant mais sur le papier ça peut faire tourner les applications pc arm64 de linux.
Un smartphone linux, un dock et un écran externe
CharmingCrust@reddit
Liberux Nexx with Converge ability and 32GB of RAM. It is doable.
PeterParkedPlenty@reddit
[YEAR] - Year of the Linux [PLATFORM]
lokiwhite@reddit (OP)
See you back here in 2035.
Adorable-Fault-5116@reddit
Of all the electronic devices in my life, my phone is the furtherest along the "it should just work" axis, where "any other motivation" is on the other end.
I run linux (arch btw) on my personal laptop, because worst case I have other computing devices if there are issues.
"Issues" here does not assign fault! It is an issue that I can't access DRM'd content on linux sometimes, but the "fault" is not with linux. My laptop sometimes doesn't work on hotel wifi, because the portal doesn't trigger. Again, I'm not interested in fault. At least once in 20 years I have bricked linux with my own configuration choices, I'm sure it will happen again. Happy to assign fault with this one ;-)
But, fault does not matter, because fault is not relevant to reality.
My phone always works. It is the backup to all of the issues I have created for myself in choosing less standard technology. I am not going to arch on it.
lokiwhite@reddit (OP)
I like this take. I wish there was a good middle ground between giving away freedom and ‘it just works’, and maybe we are getting more options that bring us closer to it, but not there yet.
djlorenz@reddit
If you would give me an alternative that can be used for every day life I would buy it. But I think that is not possible. I would settle for a proper, well supported fork of android with everything Google related removed.
Maybe Graphene, Lineage e/OS etc should just join forces instead on fighting an already minimal market
Gugalcrom123@reddit
That's why I'm refusing to get another phone of any kind, they all suck. Probably my next device will be a Raspberry Pi Compute Module.
FLMKane@reddit
Sailfish OS kinda exists.
Ok-Radish-8394@reddit
Nope. It's an utopian thought that linux strawmen devoid of the reality posses from their sun and grass starved basements.
Ain't happening. :)
lokiwhite@reddit (OP)
Honesty is a virtue! If it is a pipe dream I would rather face it now than have false hope. Appreciate the comment.
Ok-Radish-8394@reddit
If you simply think of it, perhaps less that 2% people really care about the OS on their phones, unless dictated by work or government policies (think China). Most just want a device that works and won't really bother putting up a lot of quirks of linux distros (unless handles properly). In short, the majority doesn't care about freedom or oss as long as they can get their job done in an affordable fashion. That makes it even more difficult to put linux on a phone, since there are no incentives to mass produce and without a large user base, application developers aren't going to build anything for the platform. It's not a linux community issue as per see, rather an adoption issue based on pragmatism.
lokiwhite@reddit (OP)
I do wonder what, if anything, would make people care. Surely enshitification gets so bad there is a breaking point, but I hope we never see it.
Ok-Radish-8394@reddit
We're past making people care. The society has gradually shifted towards spectrums which cater more to cult following and surviving than actually learning and developing ideologies. People want easy convenience and that's what they get in the market.
Major_Shelter3042@reddit
If they sold a Linux phone for 300 USD or less and in Latam (Chile). I am delighted to buy for my entire family. Something like Motorola but with Linux
I7sReact_Return@reddit
Same for me, only difference being Brazil
ousee7Ai@reddit
I don't see it tbh.