I want an older executive sedan, guide me !?
Posted by Only_Ad1117@reddit | askcarguys | View on Reddit | 80 comments
Between ’95 and 2004 (roughly), what would you pick if you’re looking for something: • reasonably affordable and reliable? • easy to wrench on? • a little less common? • and which engine would you go for?
For context, I’m currently driving a 2005 Volvo S60, and I’ve had my eye on S-Classes and 7 Series for a while (yeah, I’ve got a thing for Europeans) because I feel like they fit well with my personality and appearance.
I’m 21, if that makes a difference, and just starting to learn how to fix things myself (don’t even know how to take a wheel off yet 💀).
Oberon_17@reddit
Your “personality” better come with a big checkbook and CC account. You’ll personally need to pay all repairs.
IMG0NNAGITY0USUCKA@reddit
1997-98 Lincoln Mark VIII. Sweet engine, fast enough, unique, comfortable, reliable. Really an underrated car. Parents had one and I made fun of them for getting it after their disaster of an Oldsmobile Aurora. After 300k+ miles I really grew to like that car. Met its end after running over a RR tie on the highway. RIP.
DG04511@reddit
The only 20-25 year-old sedan I’d drive on the regular would be a Lexus LS.
AFinanacialAdvisor@reddit
BMW E39 is probably the best car ever produced in almost every possible way. That's the car to go for if you can find one.
S class will destroy your life. Volvo would be a reasonable choice but nowhere close to a good E39.
Fickle_Wrongdoer_753@reddit
As a Benz tech for a living, affordable and reliable don’t go in the same sentence as s-class. Easy Wrenching either with anything beyond basic maintenance.
Doublestack00@reddit
Lexus LS430
ConBroMitch2247@reddit
I’m sad how far I had to scroll to find the only correct answer for OP.
Buffet-From-Temu@reddit
Lexus LS 400, Bmw E38, Jaguar X300, Rover 75, Alfa 166, Lancia Thesis
Hosedragger5@reddit
LS400 is a good choice, unless the starter goes out. OP won’t have a good time.
jeepsies@reddit
Yup i paid a shop to do it for me and the mechanic gave me a dirty look when i picked it up. He said it was the biggest starter job hed ever done.
Buffet-From-Temu@reddit
Yep, you need to take off the intake manifold. Before to buy that car it’d be better to check if it has a consistent starting and if the voltage doesn’t drop too much when starting the engine
Commercial-Towel-391@reddit
If you go for 166 or Thesis, don’t forget the Busso
Buffet-From-Temu@reddit
Absolutely yes, but since they were looking for something affordable and "reliable" I'd go for the diesel engine for both.
jeepsies@reddit
Ls430, gs430.
Gunk_Olgidar@reddit
Any GM with a 3800.
Perfect-Proposal-313@reddit
Panther platform fords Find a marauder if you want a little bit more power Lincoln for a little nicer interior
40thAE@reddit
7 series or panamera
pasterios@reddit
This is your next ride. https://carsandbids.com/auctions/rbpayvJy/2008-mercedes-benz-s550-4matic
Minimum-Function1312@reddit
1997+ e320 Mercedes, low mileage. I love the looks of those.
Lordofpineapples@reddit
The only sedan I would consider in this category is the LS400/430
EXman303@reddit
430 all day!
EXman303@reddit
Lexus LS 430
Warmonger362527339@reddit
Lexus LS400
ambientrage25@reddit
Umm excuse me? 1995-2005ish executive sedan request, and NOT ONE mention of Saab? hello????? People are recommending Lexus? Boringggggg.... Mercedes? BMW? Wayyy too German. Volvo? too stodgy...
Saab, my young friend. Find a cleanish, well loved 9000 or 9-5 with a turbo, 5spd, and never look back. It will be quick, fun, solid, easy to live with, and cheap to run.
Will it be reliable? Mmmm, depends on ownership history. They're extremely well made but require careful maintenance. Mine have been pretty excellent but not maintenance free for sure.
Affordable? Yes, they're worth basically nothing.
Which engine? If it's a 9000 or 9-5, ONLY a turbocharded 2.3l 4 cylinder will do.
Less common? YES. And if the Saab bug bites you, fair warning, no other car will fit.
Easy to work on? Yup. And, because of the quality, parts come apart easily. For example, having owned a 90s Subaru, I developed a hatred for working on suspension and exhaust systems as everything would be rusted and seized. Saab used good metal and quality parts, stuff comes apart without breaking! And they're old enough now that there is quite an enthusiastic group of people running them, so there's lots of social media support when you don't know what you're doing. Ask me how I know.
Chitownhustle99@reddit
Infiniti Q45 -early one without trad grill
Ok_Employee9638@reddit
The only answer here is LS400. It’s one of those If you know, you know, cars.
smallchainringmasher@reddit
sgbg1904@reddit
Camry or 3rd gen Mazda 6.
_EnFlaMEd@reddit
Probably a second generation Toyota Century. May not exactly be the easiest to wrench on (you probably wouldn't have to anyway) but ticks all of the other boxes and comes with a delightful V12 engine.
ScheduleUpstairs1204@reddit
Not European but a LS may tick the boxes and the ones from early 2000s are still reliable.
BarneyBungelupper@reddit
If you have a 2005 Volvo S60, you are used to turning a wrench. I had one and I had to work on it all the time to keep it running. Cost me a fortune. Just buy a older Honda or Toyota. You won’t be fixing it all the time. This is your best option.
Darkslayer_@reddit
Lexus LS430, Buick Park Avenue Ultra, and Lincoln Town car are all eexcellent. Very reliable. Idk about the Lexus but I can tell you theast two will be very cheap to buy and maintain. Of course they're also very comfy and classy.
CarobAffectionate582@reddit
Top line: the cars you mention, S-Class, 7 - are not “Executive sedans.” They are luxury sedans. An executive sedan is an E-Class, 5’er, or Lexus GS type.
I have my stepson in a 2004 S60 2.5tawd. Excellent car in many respects. I enjoy driving it (I have tuned the suspenion a bit and stage 0’d it). I had other P2 Volvos myself in the past. Given your mechanical knowledge ability, I suggest you follow this advice:
I’ve owned a lot of BMW and have had decades with Audis. So I recommend you look at a 2008-2011 Lexus GS350 awd. 2007 is fine, just a few tweaks they made in 2008 I like (very minor). Marvelous engine, robust transmission, awd system that puts Volvo’s to shame (it is and adaption of the 80/100 Land Cruiser awd system). Driver-focused cockpit and gauges, nice leather seats that age well. It’s extremely popular among, ahem, Mercedes E350 4 matic owners, for example. They tend to buy them when keepign the MB running is no longer fun or practical. ;)
They are very reliable, generally easy to work on, and long-term don’t cost a ton more in maintenance than a comparable V6 Toyota Camry. Really.
lillpers@reddit
Volvo 960(facelift)/S90.
Volvo reliability in a quite luxury, RWD package. My 97 is still running strong at 330K km. Simpler and easier to work on than most German cars, in my experience.
They came with a 170hp 2.5, a 204hp 2.9 or a 180hp 2.9 inline 6. The 170 and 180 hp engines could be had with a 5-speed manual, at least in European markets. All engines are good but the 2.5 feels underpowered and is geared differently, not as nice as a highway cruiser.
HandNo2872@reddit
Define reasonably affordable and reliable
Have you ever worked on a car? What do you think is easy to wrench on?
Only_Ad1117@reddit (OP)
I’ve changed sensors, filters huuuuh…..replaced body parts 🫣
jonm61@reddit
You done sensors, filters, and body parts, but don't know how to...take off a wheel? 👀
Only_Ad1117@reddit (OP)
Never had a flat tire, and do my seasonal tire change at the shop 🫣
VoihanVieteri@reddit
With over 20 year old cars you need to be prepared to do stuff with the engine, transmission, suspension, electrics, breaks and whatnot. Otherwise be prepared to pay someone else to do it for you. At that point it stops being affordable.
C3ExperimentalPilot@reddit
Find a low mileage garage kept 1999/ 2000 MB E class (aka W210), or garage kept 1998 Volvo S90. MB W210 is a better car though and it may be suitable for your limited mechanical or developing DIY skills. W210 is a tank! Everything is easy to change on it, valve cover gaskets, water pump, belts, even the shocks are easy. Interior is higher quality than a Volvo which I’ve owned 2. And this MB never stranded me. I owned one up to 140K miles and it was as reliable as a Honda. Only had to change the water pump, valve cover gaskets and all 4 shocks preventatively. Very easy to work on with the longitudinal engine layout. I would not recommend the S class, owned a S500 as well lots of electrical issues. And BMW are leaky money pits.
saaggy_peneer@reddit
Used jag supercharged
420throwawayacc@reddit
I personally would 1000% stay away from the European cars at 21.
I played that game and it cost me a lot of money and time. The car was fun, but you don’t wanna be worried about car trouble in your 20’s like that.
tipperist@reddit
Lexus LS
miniature_Horse@reddit
My friend, have you considered a JDM Toyota Crown?
SailingSpark@reddit
E39 5 series fits the bill. BMW was still robust and easy to work on. You get a stylish (more than the e38 7 series) with comfort, handling, and lacking all the frills thst make the 7 series fragile and hard to work on.
jackr15@reddit
E39 is not better looking than E38, arguing semantics here but still
SailingSpark@reddit
Just my opinion, the e38 looks a bit too upright and stretched at the same time. The nose of the E39 is much more aggressive, too.
Every so often BMW gets one just right. The e39 and the face lifted e46 m3 look just perfect.
What_is_rich@reddit
That’s what I was thinking. But don’t rule out the 525. My neighbor has a 2006 since new and it’s a peach. He is diligent about maintenance and it has been very reliable.
robbelllife@reddit
E39 is a good choice. I had an e39 touring (wagon) with the comfort package, which I believe has the 7 series seats. Mine was the 540i but I’d suggest one of the 6 cylinders instead.
rudbri93@reddit
isnt the 535 a v8 in that gen? the 530s are usually fairly solid but theyre known and clean ones are getting pricier.
furmaniac@reddit
2004 Buick Century. As reliable and comfortable as they come.
Disastrous-Screen337@reddit
2002 Lexus LS430. Buy mine. $5000.
tk8398@reddit
W126 Mercedes are ok, some of the parts are pretty expensive (mainly stuff that isn't meant to be regular maintenance) and you need some some special tools but in general they are not hard to repair. That would be a little older than you wanted though, 1982-91. One of those or a bmw will probably be the least terrible you are going to find. Late 90s to early 2000s cars that cost $50k+ are mostly not that fun when you buy them for $5k.
TheHate916@reddit
If you want to wrench on your own cars, you'll also need to invest some money in tools. Factor that into the cost of ownership if you don't already have access to all the stuff and space to work on one. Wrenching is fun (sometimes) and rewarding but can also be extremely frustrating and time consuming. It also brings an element of stress if it's your only car. I'd suggest buying a commuter and then a project to wrench on, that way you don't have to stress if you break something or a project takes WAY longer than you thought (which seems to happen every time).
Rentonhater@reddit
1995-2004 Nissan Maxima baby!
SexyWampa@reddit
Older Lexus or Ford Panther platform ( Lincoln Town car, Mercury Grand Marquis, Ford Crown Victoria) if you want easy to work on and reliable, you don't buy European luxury cars.
Natural_Ad_7183@reddit
90’s BMW, 80’s Mercedes, or the best answer is an LS400.
Final_TV@reddit
bro said easy to wrench then proceed to name an s class and a 7 series aka the most complex vehicles for the time 😭
chungo69@reddit
Lexus GS300
Rico7122914@reddit
Ford Panther platform. Mercury Grand Marquis/Lincoln Town Car. Cheap parts, (mostly) easy to work on and can last a very VERY long time. There's a reason every police force in the country used that powertrain for so many years.
forgottenmy@reddit
Get an A8 (L if you have kids) and either get the 4.0 then pop on over to APR for a tune or find a TDI and enjoy that low end TQ with great mpg. Forget the rest.
FigConstant5625@reddit
Import a toyota century from Japan.
YinzerInEurope@reddit
LS430 is the only answer to your question.
__Bren__@reddit
E38 7 series is supreme.
Raalf@reddit
I haven't seen anyone mention a Toyota Century yet. Definitely reliable. Definitely affordable. Definitely an executive sedan.
Aromatic-Leopard-600@reddit
Get a Caddi that has had a great repair record. If it’s been good for 75000 miles it will be good for another. And it’s about as executive as it gets.
Suspicious-Dust6978@reddit
E39
Avaricio@reddit
If you currently don't even know how to remove a wheel you should probably not be looking to wrench on a Mercedes, or most European cars unless you have a buddy with experience to help you out. They aren't actually that hard to work on but they're sensitive and unforgiving (expensive) if you make a mistake.
jrileyy229@reddit
Affordable and reliable? Absolutely nothing you're looking at fits those parameters. 25 year old S classes and 7 series are usually going to be brutal to own... Which is why you can buy them for less than the price of an older camry
cronx42@reddit
I believe some of the 90's Mercs and BMW's were pretty solid. They can be hella expensive to maintain though anyway, especially if a major problem comes up.
Even the Lexus LS can be pricey to own if you want it perfect, but they're built like an absolute tank and can take an unworldly amount of neglect and abuse.
I bought an LS430 after I saw a video of a guy drifting a stock LS400 with a welded diff for I think 10+ minutes... With no coolant. He was on the redline basically the entire time. It still ran fine. He said he could probably drive it home if he put tires on it lol(he roasted the tires until they blew after drifting it all around). I searched up reliability and durability of the LS430 and was sold (it has a lot more features than the 400).
cronx42@reddit
You'll probably want to steer clear of the European models unfortunately. In those years, the Lexus LS400 and 430 are really the best options for an executive sedan. I would recommend a '03-'06 facelift LS430. It has a Toyota V8 nicknamed the "million mile V8". The facelift has a 6spd auto and a TON of features. They're commonly slammed and given the VIP treatment, which I hate when overdone, but I've seen some REALLY gorgeous 430's. I have a pre facelift and it's an amazing car. Get one, lower it a tiny bit (or put in aftermarket air ride, some come with air stock) and put some chunky ass wheels and tint and you have a seriously badass looking sedan.
DoctorsAdvocate@reddit
Ls400/430 or a really clean gs430
jackr15@reddit
E38 BMW
jonm61@reddit
Stay away from old European anything if you want easy, reliable, or inexpensive. For those qualities, you want Japanese.
HotmailsInYourArea@reddit
Any Benz or BMW I've owned really hasn't been that bad to work on. VW on the other hand...
Training_Echidna_911@reddit
I can only repeat the advice of the Dog & Lemon Guide for high end European cars, "Don't be the owner when it breaks down."
On a positive note, how about a Toyota Century?
CasioOceanusT200@reddit
20+ year old European flagship sedans will bankrupt you. Like, "first major repair costing more than what you bought the car for, and it'll happen within the first month and that's why it's for sale" levels of cost.
If you're going on this fools-errand, you'll want to hit up owners forums to get an idea of realistic options for you, and where the pitfalls are.
rudbri93@reddit
hang onto the volvo and learn some wrenching stuff on that before you buy a project car. And when you do, trust me youll want it to be common. having repair info and parts availability just make the life a lot easier.
vastly101@reddit
Had a friend whose father owned a Mercedes dealership years before. She always wanted a Mercedes convertible (used). Regretted within weeks. Total nightmare beyond imagining. Windows, water intrusion, rust. Sold it within 2 months. Funny thing is, she bought a newer Mercedes after that. Dream of a car like that when you have money to burn. I do not. S classes from that era were gorgeous. I also loved the E class 2005-2009 (esp. 2007+). But 20 years old (the cars, not you)? Even as DIY expert, can you parts are a fortune, maintenance crazy. You can't takr a wheel off yet? just don't, please. You have no ide of the pain you are setting yourself up for.
CollenOHallahan@reddit
D3 Audi A8 before 2005.5 when they switched to chain driven cars.
The S Class and 7 series equivalent.