FWIW, I've always been curious as to why no one tried adapting the .22 Hornet in a semi auto system.
Posted by NappyFlickz@reddit | Firearms | View on Reddit | 36 comments
Especially given that to this day, every other round in the .22 cartridge has seen significant utilization to this day, with the .22 LR still used for training/plinking/small game/suppressed weapons fire (and likely in the clandestine services still for that purpose as they saw significant use in Vietnam for that reason as well), and going all the way up to the centerfire cartridges, everyone from the 218 bee to 221 fireball to everyone's favorite .223 and 225 win have decent amounts of weapon systems that use them in modern times.
Yet the .22 hornet was seemingly glossed over.
It's been around for 95 years, has anywhere from a 800-1300 fps advantage in muzzle velocity over the 22WMR, which some still compare to the 9mm in a self defense capacity (though that's moreso due to bullet diameter than speed, admittedly)
It's a pretty aerodynamic round, rated for taking down coyotes, deer, bobcats and the like, and it's small enough to pack quite a few into a mag, and as part of the .22 family, I imagine it would work well suppressed.
I'd be very interested in a smaller semi auto rifle that was chambered in it if one came out.
What about you guys?
Severe-Cow-8646@reddit
Maybe I'm an idiot, maybe I just dont know, but exactly what weapons system other than an xp100 (no longer manufactured) the TC Contender and the Remington 700 CDL Classic Limited Edition? I dont recall anyone other than TC picking it up. You make it sound as though every maker has offered it and one can just walk into a gun shop and grab two or three models off the shelf. Hardly. Again, you make it sound as thought he same can be said of a dozen or more 22 caliber cartridges, including the 218 Bee and id bet fewer than 5 percent of those on this page have ever seen one in real life. Wow.
Agammamon@reddit
What does it do the .223 doesn't do better?
goshathegreat@reddit
No one is comparing 22wmr to a 9mm…
DannyBones00@reddit
Most of the time the only people comparing 22wmr to 9mm are the ones desperate to try to say it’s acceptable for self defense.
TacTurtle@reddit
Other than per-round cost.
Former-Ad9272@reddit
Yeah came to say the same thing. Don't get me wrong, I love both rounds and shoot them frequently, but they're not in the same class.
goshathegreat@reddit
Same dude, I’m actually looking for another 22wmr rifle to replace my CMR30 that got hit with the ban hammer (fucking Canada…) but I can’t say I’ve ever considered ditching a 9mm for a 22wmr…
Former-Ad9272@reddit
Oh that sucks... I have two single action revolvers with swap cylinders (.22LR/WMR, and .357/9mm). My .357 weighs twice as much as my .22, so they both act the same when I shoot .22 mag and 9mm. It's the perfect pair for dual wielding: they both have the same muzzle flip and recoil, and I get to shoot a really light pistol in my non-dominant hand.
It's just hilarious to see that little .22 hole in paper, and then watch the 9mm plow though right next to it
Dumpster_Diver@reddit
I also have both but 9mm has way more recoil than 22wmr imo. When i shoot 9mm out of the blackhawk its definitely snappier than 38 (but mild overall) meanwhile 22wmr just feels like spicy 22lr out of the single six
Former-Ad9272@reddit
Huh, I've had the opposite with my Blackhawk. I could be shooting hot .38s or light 9mm though. I have a Heritage rough rider for my .22, but both are 5 1/2" barrels. Most of the 9mm I've shot out of the Blackhawk has just enough recoil to bounce the front sight a little bit, but it's a front heavy gun.
Dumpster_Diver@reddit
Interesting. I just know when i shot 9mm out of the blackhawk i was a little surprised cause i thought thered be 0 recoil but in reading more, 9mm revolvers have to be built more robustly than 38 because 38 is lower pressure. With that said i do love me some .22wmr but im in the camp that unless you have at least 4” of barrel, the ballistic difference between 22lr and 22wmr is almost completely offset by noise/muzzle blast/sometimes capacity
Former-Ad9272@reddit
I was curious so I went and looked at my ammo. I've been shooting 158 gr .38's and 115 gr trainer loads for 9mm... I'll bet 147 gr loads would get a little more jumpy! That's why I love my 5 1/2" barrels. That little extra front weight keeps my bore from climbing and I like to think that my velocities are a little higher. The .22 WMRs aren't as accurate as LR's out of my Rough Rider, but holy shit do they shoot flat! I was ringing the 75 yard gong from the bench with that thing the first time I took it out.
Dumpster_Diver@reddit
Yeah i mean its not bad but without the reciprocating slide of a semi auto, its easy to forget its actually a somewhat fast little round. I wish my blackhawk was the 5.5 inch. I have a 6.5 and prefer shorter barrels. A year or so back i was at a gun show and i grabbed an extra 9mm cylinder for like $50 and ive been looking for another blackhawk so i can have a pair lol
Former-Ad9272@reddit
Yeah, at least with those 115's it's a pleasant shooter with 9mm. Just a little muzzle bounce. The 5.5 is a lot of barrel on a wheel gun, but that's the minimum for deer hunting in my state. I still think it's easy enough to carry on my belt in the woods, but you can definitely tell it's there. I'm thinking of loading some light 9mm with .357 bullets and seeing how tight of a group I can print with that gun.
Former-Ad9272@reddit
I was curious so I went and looked at my ammo. I've been shooting 158 gr .38's and 115 gr trainer loads for 9mm... I'll bet 147 gr loads would get a little more jumpy! That's why I love my 5 1/2" barrels. That little extra front weight keeps my bore from climbing and I like to think that my velocities are a little higher. The .22 WMRs aren't as accurate as LR's out of my Rough Rider, but holy shit do they shoot flat! I was ringing the 75 yard gong from the bench with that thing the first time I took it out.
ratmanmedia@reddit
Literally this.
TacTurtle@reddit
It has a long spindly rimmed case with very thin case mouth that does noting a 5.7 or .223 couldn't do better.
robertva1@reddit
Likely to hot for a simple blowback. And not reatky available
WhocaresToo@reddit
I think it comes down to rimfire versus centerfire bottom line. To get things to stack nicely and evenly just aren't going to happen very well without jams and misfires etc etc etc
SteveHamlin1@reddit
Stacking in magazines has to do with rimmed vs rimless, not rimfire vs centerfire.
Rimmed, centerfire cartridges have issues stacking in magazines.
WhocaresToo@reddit
Ah. Well copy that. Learn something everyday :-) +1
Former-Ad9272@reddit
I love .22 hornet in theory, but I'd have a really hard time justifying buying one. I like the idea that I can basically load it down center fire .22 WMR, but it just doesn't have the legs for knocking down coyotes at longer ranges.
If I were ever going to get one, I'd want a falling block single shot schützen rifle. Preferably a Sharps, Peabody, or an 1885 low wall action. It just sounds like a fun handy varmint gun for walking field edges.
ServoIIV@reddit
I think the biggest factor would be the rimmed cartridge not working well in magazine fed firearms. It's a problem that can be solved with rotary magazines like a 10/22 or using some sort of slanted magazine to force the rims to stack properly, but between that and ammo cost and availability there are other options that have a better balance of characteristics.
NappyFlickz@reddit (OP)
22 Hornet is centerfire
SteveHamlin1@reddit
But rimmed, nevertheless.
piezer8@reddit
Rimmed is something separate from Rimfire. There are many center fire rimmed cartridges. Rimfire refers to where the firing pin hits. Rimmed means the bottom sticks out more than the rest of the cartridge.
ServoIIV@reddit
They make rimmed centerfire rounds.
Xhenoz@reddit
I'd presume it's simply been unnecessary. It's quite a niche that doesn't really need to be filled and thus it isn't.
.22lr and .22wmr semi autos were made more out of necessity for a cheap semi auto plinking rifle.
Theres a simple fact that magazine fed semi auto rifles dislike rimmed cartridges, and tube fed semi autos want flat nose bullets. Both .22 Hornet and .218 Bee fall into this weird limbo where they would suck in both tube and box mags and there are simply just better options like .221 fireball and .223 rem.
The people who want a .22 Hornet semi auto have it custom made and thus there's no real market with better tried and tested options available
Rex_Lee@reddit
What would that give you vs the 5.7 mm used in the p90?
NappyFlickz@reddit (OP)
22 hornet is center fire iirc.
But aside from that, what you said makes sense.
Xhenoz@reddit
It is, that's why I mentioned it wouldn't work well in a tube mag being centerfire and spire tipped. 218 bee has the same issue (rimmed, centerfire, spire tip).
Each of these smaller .22 caliber cartridges has a upside and a downside, and .22 hornet/.218 bee just have too many downsides to be practical for a semi auto.
The rimmed design makes them hard to design a semi auto around, much easier to use a rimless cartridge like .221 fireball or .223 that fills a similar niche.
Stack that ontop of them being a obscure cartridge it's no wonder no one's been overly anxious to make a semi auto to use them
Cliffinati@reddit
Because for the cost it's cheaper to just go to 5.56
justrobdoinstuff@reddit
I've forgotten about .22 hornet until I came across this post.
DeafHeretic@reddit
I have been more curious why it has taken so long to have a bolt action (albeit single shot) 5.7x28 rifle?
phrozenlikwid@reddit
Have been playing on this idea for a while.
My current thinking is use the PT&G 40x center-firing pin rimfire bolt action (yeah that sounds weird, but it exists). I have two on order, but it’s PT&G so at 40 years old I might die a natural death before I see them :(
I don’t have a great magazine solution yet, but my fallback is single stack AICS body à la Vudoo.
I think a 17-5.7 will be a great 17WSM dupe that isn’t held back by absolute shit tier ammo quality.
Impossible_Sound8720@reddit
There might be a market for a very low volume production run of a semi-auto .22 Hornet rifle in the same way that the scarce .22WMR version of the 10/22 was created, but beyond that there is absolutely 0 market for something like a carbine or handgun.
I can't think of someone ever choosing .22 Hornet over .22WMR given the matter of price and .22WMR's already more than acceptable defensive performance with loads like Federal Punch.
It's just too niche of a round that is it's increased power over .22WMR stops mattering the moment you realize you can buy 2 50 round boxes of .22WMR for the price of 1 20 round box of .22 Hornet