Car Companies Want Do-It-All Tires, Drivers Want Tread Life
Posted by Sixteen-Cylinders@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 339 comments
Posted by Sixteen-Cylinders@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 339 comments
WabbitCZEN@reddit
Continental had a great tire that does it all and has excellent tread life. I'm sure otherwise brands do to. As someone who's built a care in the auto industry, drivers go for "Whatever is cheapest" more often than not.
memymomeddit@reddit
Continentals have been shitty in my experience. They're fine new, but they get really noisy as they wear and I had a lot of problems with sidewall bubbles and false TPMS alerts. Plus the ride quality isn't as nice as the equivalent Michelins.
e92s65king@reddit
Considering most Americans seem to love paycheck to paycheck I don’t really blame them
omgasnake@reddit
Not to seem too glib, but being poor is not really any excuse to drive unsafely or with bad equipment for your vehicle.
hutacars@reddit
Really? I honestly can’t think of a better excuse. Certainly not in a car-dependent country such as the US.
probablyhrenrai@reddit
It's the same reason why I don't begrudge the geriatrics doing 10 under the speed limit; yeah, they're a nuisance and a mild road hazard to literally everyone else, but driving yourself around in a car is a basic survival necessity in virtually all of the US. No one with a walker or cane is going to bike or walk a few miles to a grocery.
peoplearekindaokay@reddit
"If you can't afford Michelins, you don't deserve the ability to drive to work and feed your family."
stametsprime@reddit
The "paycheck to paycheck" part means, if they don't get to work, they don't get a paycheck and their kids go hungry. Bet your ass they're driving on either old or the cheapest tires they possibly can.
Whatcanyado420@reddit
Lmao what? That's the main reason why someone would do this.
God I hate morons
ArdillasVoladoras@reddit
Pretty out of touch take, yeah
omgasnake@reddit
Dropped a grand a few months ago on a new set of Contis. Felt like a lot and then realized my previous pair lasted almost 9 years. People get touchy about tire brands, there are pros/cons for all of them, but Discount Tire and Continental have always been stellar for em.
Itchy-Pride-1615@reddit
Continental has been coming up in the ranks lately i've seen that its slowly matching up with Michellen
Spetz@reddit
You should be replacing your tires every 5 years if they don't reach wear by then. The compound degrades with time as well as miles.
SamsonFox2@reddit
Continental explicitly did not subscribe to this theory.
thisisthatacct@reddit
5 years is a little aggressive, Continental recommends 10 years
SamsonFox2@reddit
My Contis that came with the car lasted 10 years. I do use winter tires, but that's probably well over 100k km's.
This being said, their winter traction was pretty questionable - I've been in a couple of situations when I didn't change to winters in time, and my car was pretty much dragged forward in relatively light snow.
OvONettspend@reddit
That’s been my experience too. People will always buy what’s cheap right now at the time of purchase versus what’s cheap to own overall
Also big ups on continental. I love my dws06s and sport 02s
tsaidollasign@reddit
I’m on the DWS06+ right now how do the sport 02s compare?
aresfiend@reddit
They're wildly different tires. The DWS in DWS06+ stands for Dry Wet Snow, meaning all season. The Sport 02s will kill you if you drive them in the winter. They're the second most terrifying tire I've ever driven on at low speed below 40° until they get some temp in them.
turtleseathumans@reddit
I typically run dws tires on my car (multiple generations at this point), used then on a vw cc, c6 corvette, subaru sti. They are amazing tires. They work well in the winter, i could daily my c6 in all but the worst weather in Connecticut. I never had an issue with hydroplaning and they were good enough performance for the street in all cases (even on curvy roads such as the tail of the dragon.
The sport 02’s i put on a ss 1le and they are good when dry and in a light rain but will kill you if there is any standing water on the road. I have to drive at about 45-50 mph in heavy rain compared to my dws’s which would have shrugged it off. For a daily, even in the south, i would recommend the dws over the sports if you get heavy rains, low temps, or ice / snow. I kind of regret the sports to be honest (as good as they are in the dry, i still need my car to be safe when it rains).
anapoe@reddit
Tbh one of the reasons I like my summer performance tires is that it forces me to swap to winter tires in a timely fashion. No "oh I'll be fine, it's just a dusting"
tsaidollasign@reddit
Ah I see, just my first time hearing of the Sport 02s.
Yeah I’m up to around 30k on my DWS06+, wonderful tire.
FMJoey325@reddit
I have the DWS06+ tires on my G8. They’re great all year considering the car but I don’t drive it enough and they’re getting flat spot vibrations :/
BannytheBoss@reddit
The vibrations go away with a few heat cycles. I had the same issues when I had DWS06+ on my car and it would sit for a few weeks.
tsaidollasign@reddit
:(
pssiraj@reddit
They're the new version of the ExtremeContact Sport.
FeldMonster@reddit
Going from DWS tires where I would understeer and the tires would squeel to Sport 02's which just silently grip and hrip and grip was a phenomenal upgrade. The limit to how fast I take a corner is my courage, not the tire or the car.
THEREALCABEZAGRANDE@reddit
I bought some wheels and tires from Japan that came with Japanese market Bridgestone Grid 2s on them. Spectacular tire in the dry, tons of grip. I was young and didn't really consider if they were winter rated, and the first day it was 30 degrees out I went to go to class and my 240SX didn't move. I thought I had broken something. I opened my door to look and the tire was spinning in place on completely dry pavement. I've never seen a tire turn into literal glass in cold weather before.
V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit
There are so many Japanese exclusive tries.
SarcasticOptimist@reddit
I wish Kei cars were a thing in the US. Tiny 13 inch tires are very affordable and ideal for a commuter car.
aresfiend@reddit
Yeah, that shit is terrifying. I live in northern Minnesota so it can be in the mid 30s early in the morning or in the evening but in the high 60s/low 70s during the day. Every year the first time I put my summers on I'm reminded of it the next morning. Last year on my Extremecontact Sport 02s I just slid through an intersection by my house, this year on my Azenis RT660+s I did a 180 turning at the first intersection by my house at 5mph.
pdp10@reddit
A big reason for that, is when the decider lacks confidence that the more-expensive option really will be cheaper for them in the end.
And not necessarily because they doubt the quality of the product. A /r/BuyIfForLife shirt doesn't last a lifetime if you dump a spaghetti dinner down the front. Expensive, durable, tires may not be worth more if they're going to age out in the garage either way -- maybe those grippy summer tires would have been a better choice for the same price.
r_golan_trevize@reddit
Yet another DWS06 fan.
We don’t get enough snow to worry about here (~1/2” every other year that melts by midday) so a separate set of snow tires don’t make sense but we do get plenty of cold days down to the high 20s and occasionally teens and days with sub 40f mornings and 70f+ afternoons that make summer tires sketchy, especially if it’s wet, and plenty of rain to go around. The DWS06 lets me be lazy and run one tire year round and not have to worry about it.
Rubber compounds and water clearing tread design have gotten so much better in the last ~15 years or so that all seasons perform as good or better than some of the summer tires I ran back in ye olden days.
I’ve put a couple sets of DWS06 and a set of their predecessor DWS too and a set of Pilot Sport 3. The Continentals have been my favorite. I liked the Michelins too as far as performance went but they did not wear well and were wearing out really fast (before a piece of gravel punctured one and destroyed it).
Not_A_Crazed_Gunman@reddit
That's how people are in general, that's why cheap no-name Chinese electronics are so popular. Buy cheap buy twice
LSXS10@reddit
I have the DWS on my Mazda 6, they have been fantastic in every way possible.
Then I have the 02s on my 840whp ZL1 and they do extremely well considering the power they are fighting. Highly impressed with them and highly recommend them.
BryanDaBlaznAzn@reddit
I used to run cheap Chinese tires until I switched to continental DWS06 and my god the difference in grip and ride quality is insane. I can drive spiritedly, putt around in the city and take long road trips and feel confident that my rubber will keep me on the road
Skensis@reddit
To be fair, most consumers aren't watching tiree reviews on YouTube and don't know how large of a gap there can be between tires.
The fact I can name multiple tire skus makes me an odd ball in casual company.
djsnoopmike@reddit
Yes, the DWS06+ is goated for the rain, especially living in Florida
Beekatiebee@reddit
Another for the DWS06+, phenomenal tire.
Outperformed my expectations on my TTS in every measure.
gkobesyeet@reddit
Which tire?
WabbitCZEN@reddit
Continental Extreme Contact DWS06. Ultra High Performance All Season tire with an excellent tread life, and I can personally vouch for how it handles harsh winter conditions. I live out on eastern Long Island.
Br0boc0p@reddit
They chew through snow like its nothing, let you corner like an idiot, and last like 40k miles. I'll still for them as long as they keep being this awesome.
Ran4@reddit
Get proper sets not all season bullshit tires
stillpiercer_@reddit
DWS06+ is good enough that it becomes pretty hard to justify anything else if you live somewhere that gets cold. At least with my car and in my area, you’d have to be driving pretty fucking recklessly to need more tire than a DWS06+ on the street.
It’s a good enough tire that there’s zero chance in hell I’m going to spend an extra $1500-2000 to get a second set of wheels and tires, not to mention that a dedicated summer tire isn’t going to last as long.
Logitech4873@reddit
You are out of your mind. All season tires are incomparable to real winter tires. They're rarely even directly compared in tire tests, and when they are they perform so poorly that it's obvious why they're in a completely different category.
As a Norwegian it's WILD that anyone would try to recommend people these unless they only drive in a city in a super mild area.
Not_A_Crazed_Gunman@reddit
I'm Canadian from southern Ontario, and I have a set of the Michelin CrossClimate 2.
After I got them I realized they're overkill because where I live they plow and salt the roads so fast and there's so much traffic that any snow that lands on the road is completely gone after 12-24 hours. For most of the winter the roads are either completely dry or just a little bit wet from snowbanks melting.
If I had to deal with actual winter weather I'd get something else but as it is I don't see why I need to. OP's area might be similar.
Logitech4873@reddit
This is what was said in the post earlier in the comment chain. Harsh winter. The guy is recommending subpar tires for HARSH winter. That's not what those all season tires are for.
Not_A_Crazed_Gunman@reddit
The difference is that what qualifies as a harsh winter for us is probably incredibly mild for you lol. Most of the Northeastern US has a climate like Poland or Czechia.
Logitech4873@reddit
Yeah my idea of winter is commuting on packed snow, and sometimes it will melt and refreeze. So tires have to grip well on ice as well. Most people here run studded winter tires.
Not_A_Crazed_Gunman@reddit
You aren't even allowed to use studded tires in my part of Ontario lol, they're only allowed up north. I don't think I've ever driven on packed snow for more than maybe 50 metres.
Logitech4873@reddit
I've driven probably 20K kilometres on packed snow lol. It's just the default surface here mid-winter.
I run studless winter tires personally because they're much quieter (we have them on for ~6 months here), but studded tires absolutely have the advantage here on ice.
Not_A_Crazed_Gunman@reddit
They put so much salt on the roads here that we don't really have to worry about ice. All the pavement is a shade of light grey all winter lol.
It also makes our cars rust so fast that unless you rustproof your car or frequently wash the undercarriage in winter you can expect to deal with tons of it within just a few years.
Logitech4873@reddit
Yeah no salting here. Just regular plowing when it snows, and occasionally scraping the packed ice and snow off the road surface when it doesn't snow. But then my area also has precipitation more than half of the days in the year, so the end result is that you're driving on packed snow almost all winter. Oh and winter lasts 5-6 months.
Not_A_Crazed_Gunman@reddit
Winter here is also about 4-5 months temperature wise, but we don't get as much precipitation here and most of the time when we do it's a very light dusting of snow that doesn't stay on the ground. Most of the snow is built up from the couple big storms we get every winter.
This changes based on where exactly you are though, Buffalo in New York is only a couple hundred kilometres away and they get way more snow. I'm no meteorologist but I know it has something to do with the Great Lakes and where you are relative to them.
glizzytwister@reddit
Cross Climate IIs come very close to being legitimate winter tires. They're fantastic in snow.
Ftpini@reddit
This is true. They’re fantastic tires. The only issue is they underperform tires like the DWS in dry and warm conditions. For most people. That said, for the majority of folks, CCIIs are all they’ll ever need.
Logitech4873@reddit
80% longer braking distance on ice compared to Nokian Hakka R5 winter tires - and those are studless. It's just not in the same ballpark for serious winter driving.
https://www.motor.no/tester/piggfrie-vinterdekk-2024-helarsdekk-michelin-crossclimate-2/287888
You can translate this page. They provide detailed test numbers in a link.
ArdillasVoladoras@reddit
Most people don't need two sets.
Logitech4873@reddit
People who live in harsh winter conditions do. That's what the comment specifically talked about.
ArdillasVoladoras@reddit
If you only get those conditions once or twice a season, you do not need a dedicated set of winters.
Logitech4873@reddit
Sure. But that's not really harsh winter.
ArdillasVoladoras@reddit
Seems to work well in them based on the anecdote above.
ManufacturerBest2758@reddit
DWS06 are near UHP summer tire performance and you can drive in the snow without dying.
Logitech4873@reddit
Ice braking distance will be horrible.
beamdriver@reddit
Not enough snow here on Long Island to justify the expense and annoyance of putting on snow tires. DWS06 have excellent snow performance and are just fine for anything I've had to drive through here.
Logitech4873@reddit
All season tires are a joke for harsh winter. Saying this type of stuff can genuinely cause harm to people. Control yourself.
Ftpini@reddit
Imagine being so wrong about this.
The vast majority of people cannot afford two sets of tires and/or wheels and will not be able to swap. For almost all people buying a good set of all season tires will not only be more economical but they’ll actually be safer on the road. Regular tires are not safe below 40f. Winter tires will degrade in a single season if driven in summer. High end all seasons like the DWS06 will outperform the majority of tires in any conditions.
People are going to be far more likely to have an accident if they buy two sets of discount tires instead of one really good set of all seasons.
Logitech4873@reddit
Almost all people in my area have a set of summer/all-weather tires and a set of dedicated winter tires, usually studded. (Studless are less common due to lower ice grip)
Even people driving the cheapest crap cars on the road still have a set of winter tires - it's just not something people skimp on here because of the conditions. Every used car on the market will come with two sets of tires.
The topic was HARSH winter, and in harsh winter you do not skimp on winter tires.
lemonchicken91@reddit
Saving
Cheesybox@reddit
Tires and brakes are the two main car things I will never cheap out on
Dahyno@reddit
I bought ps4s tires recently and just want to say finding the equivalent tire from Continental (to cross shop) was so damn annoying.
Responsible-Meringue@reddit
Contis ecs02 are killing the "regular sports car" summer tire segment. Outperforming ps4s in everything but noise.
withsexyresults@reddit
Which is kinda weird. 4s squeals like crazy at the limit and ecs02 are nearly silent when they let go
r_golan_trevize@reddit
Probably rating noise in regular driving, not at the limit.
Squealing at the limit is a feature to me… lets you know you’ve reached the limit of the tire! Tire noise driving straight down the highway at 75mph is annoying.
withsexyresults@reddit
which why thought it’s weird conti made a tire louder on road and quiet on the limit
Yup, that squealing was so useful to let you know you’re at the limit and to dial it back. Only time I sent my car off track were with contis and it was nearly silent when it happened
Responsible-Meringue@reddit
The 200tw enduro offering, the ECF, scream at the limit. The ecs are a summer road tire, an ok track specific wet-tyre when you dont want to spend $$ on a non-dot.
withsexyresults@reddit
Unfortunately track my daily and only do around 3-4 days a year. Otherwise would’ve switched to ecf
xienze@reddit
Well in this case, can you blame them? A set of “good” tires is like $1000 installed, or more. For fucking rubber.
WabbitCZEN@reddit
And there's the problem. They're not "fucking rubber". They're safety equipment, every bit as important as airbags and seatbelts.
There is one piece of equipment on a car designed to stay in contact with the road. And that one piece of equipment can mean the difference between stopping in time or slamming into something.
Logitech4873@reddit
So why the FUCK are you recommending people subpar tires for HARSH winter? Do some research.
WabbitCZEN@reddit
I live on eastern Long Island. I've driven in harsh winters with these tires.
Logitech4873@reddit
I don't know where that is. And reality is that they're much worse than actual winter tires on compacted snow and ice.
WabbitCZEN@reddit
Northeast US. It's an island about 23 miles wide, 120 miles long. Winters here can be brutal due to how cold it can get, plus the fact that there is no escaping the added effects of being such a narrow island.
xienze@reddit
Yeah, I agree with that, they’re important. But they’re also well-established technology built out of inexpensive material. What exactly necessitates them having such a high markup?
Porshuh@reddit
There are also steel belts and polymer plies. Not expensive either, sure, but any given model of tire is offered in a huge range of fitments and for each fitment all components must be correctly sized. That's a lot of logistical complexity and the assembly lines must be equipped to handle all this variation.
mr_beanoz@reddit
research?
xienze@reddit
I’m driving a minivan, not a race car. Surely there must be a design for a safe, reliable tire from let’s say the year 2000 that can meet my needs without being marked up like crazy, right?
mr_beanoz@reddit
well, if you drive a minivan I don't think you need a UHP tire. Get something cheaper like a goodyear assurance or whatever. (it's around $60 in my country depending on the size)
xienze@reddit
Right, that’s what I’m getting at. Here in the US if you want something from a reputable brand those basic minivan tires are like $200 apiece. Even the dodgy Chinese stuff starts at $100. Hence my original post… for basic, everyday driving there’s no damn reason for these things to be so expensive.
hutacars@reddit
We are running out of natural rubber. So expect tires to get more expensive, if anything.
mr_beanoz@reddit
Yeah, tire prices are getting steeper indeed. And my bad, that price on the original comment is for just one tire.
ManufacturerBest2758@reddit
It’s honestly hilarious that people can’t conceptualize any reason for cost beyond “markup”
s629c@reddit
It’s the only thing that keeps you along with 3000+ lbs connected to the ground. Whether on dry wet snow or ice, it’s the biggest factor in going, stopping, sliding, and most of all not crashing. Never cheap out on the things between you and the ground
xienze@reddit
Insulin is life-saving medicine, but also a very old and well understood medical technology that’s cheap to produce yet marked up like crazy. Likewise, tires are well understood and surely there should be some off-patent design for a reliable tire that doesn’t have to cost a fucking fortune, shouldn’t there? Why are so many people in this thread simping for tire manufacturers?
MJOLNIRdragoon@reddit
The issue is "reliable" isn't a set, immutable metric. What was considered reliable in the 80s wouldn't qualify as such today.
Plus, cars are heavier and faster than before. Not upgrading your tires to accommodate can become a safety concern.
Wetmelon@reddit
You think tire prices are just "marked up like crazy"? Michelin's operating margin is < 15%. They could sell your set of $1000 for $850, but then they'd probably go bankrupt
https://www.michelin.com/en/investors/presentation-events/results-sales
s629c@reddit
Im not against the idea that good tires should be more affordable but its the point of cheaping out on shitty tires is a hazard to both you and others on the road. There is quite of a lot of material science that goes into tire rubber that makes a big difference in how it grips and what temperature it can operate in. Obviously not everyone needs the absolute best tires possible but there are plenty in the mid-range level that are just much better than the absolute bottom of the barrel tires.
thuper@reddit
Contintentals are the GOAT.
My first set of CrossContact LX20 lasted 70k miles until I totaled the car. I'm certain they would have made it to 100k.
Got LX25 on my current car with 3.5 years and 50k miles and the "S" in DWS is still showing.
Yotsubato@reddit
Continental is a premium top tier brand. I use them and Michelin tires exclusively.
LanceFree@reddit
As a young consumer, it took me a while to understand tire shopping. I would read Consumer Reports and chose the tire I wanted for my vehicle. Then the person at the tire store would try to sell me something else. Often, I would not be happy with those tires. Eventually realized it’s totally done to ask “can you get the tires I asked for?” Some times they csn get those in as little as two hours, or I can return the next day, next week.
weristjonsnow@reddit
Tires are definitely a spot I always go above and beyond. I live in an area with nasty winters. All weather does not cut it here. I don't go for full snow tires bc our summers are hot as hell and will chew the tread, but I always get that biggest, gnarliest "all weather" that basically looks like snow tires. They're like $300 each, but fuck it, it's better than sliding sideways on a 2 degree slope while sitting still
Ecsta@reddit
People who go for winter tires also have a set of summers. You wouldn't run your winters in the summer unless you never drive.
jrileyy229@reddit
It does it all like any other all season, but it's absolutely a compromise still. Whatever tire you're talking about, compare it in summer conditions to a ps4s and it'll not be close.
WabbitCZEN@reddit
Most people can't afford to run two full sets of wheels for pure summer tires. The DWS06s offer the best balance without hitting your wallet.
Ecsta@reddit
It's not that much more. You're only using your tires half the time so they last twice as long. Alloy wheels are not expensive.
Logitech4873@reddit
You shouldn't compromise for winter driving. Nobody does that here in northern Norway. You will end up crashing, which is much more expensive. All season tires SUCK on ice.
jrileyy229@reddit
Sure, I'm not saying they're bad tires or that people should use summer only tires... Just that any kind of all season is a compromise
superchibisan2@reddit
You'd think people would understand that tires are the most important part of the vehicle.
if you don't have any tires, how does the car get anywhere? might as well pony up for the best because it affects acceleration, turning, and braking. All things that that could save your life.
Ecsta@reddit
Many people buy whats cheapest in general for cars, not unique to cars.
Diom3nt4s@reddit
That's why they buy any tire to get somewhere.
KaosC57@reddit
Which tire is that? I’m getting a Honda CR-Z soon and will likely be putting tires on it next year (and aligning it). Is it the DWS06+?
WabbitCZEN@reddit
Yep. Can't go wrong with these tires.
Logitech4873@reddit
Unless you experience actual winter.
KaosC57@reddit
Looks like I’m going to have to upsize my tires then. The stock size is 195/55R16, so I have to jump to like, 225/50R16 to get these.
WabbitCZEN@reddit
Check your wheel to see what the max size you can fit on it before you do.
KaosC57@reddit
CR-Z owners confirm that that size fits and is only like +1.8% on the Speedometer
BannytheBoss@reddit
I have not experienced the best tread life with continentals but their cheaper brand, General Tire, has decent tread life. Continentals are great from day 1 until end of life while General tires get louder as the miles rack up.
testthrowawayzz@reddit
I switched to Continentals and it was actually cheaper than the Michelin set I had on before
JimmyReagan@reddit
It's crazy how big a difference there was one time when I went from some no name tire to Continentals. Rode a lot better and even lasted longer
joeguy1776@reddit
Yeah quality tires make a huge difference. Worth the extra cost for sure.
SteelFlexInc@reddit
On my first car that I bought myself I was broke in college and had Sentury tires from discount tire because they were the cheapest thing they had and then went to Pirellis and was blown away how much of a difference they made in wet handling around and how much more usable 1st gear was in wet roads without spinning
explosiv_skull@reddit
Guilty as charged. Mostly because contractors seem to shed nails from their pickups like they're throws at Mardi Gras around here.
Thomas_633_Mk2@reddit
A very high portion of people I see, including on people who care enough to run big rims, went for Winrun R330's which are coincidentally the cheapest tyre here
RuinedGrave@reddit
Yep, I know for a fact I lose a lot of sales to lower quality tires because it doesn’t hit the wallet as hard. Most of the time when I have people ask me to price match a tire, it’s some cheap Chinese no-name or something that only a specific tire store can sell.
hi_im_bored13@reddit
Does-it-all except for rolling resistance, which is what manufacturers prioritize
Metal_LinksV2@reddit
I had some terrain contacts on my truck, great in all weather and off road but the fuel economy toke a hit
KnowledgePitiful8197@reddit
Maybe they do, they also make OEM tires for Volvo that have 0 miles thread life warranty
unatleticodemadrid@reddit
Tire tech has always been fascinating to me. Watching all the rubber get rounded up and shipped back to Pirelli every F1 race was very cool.
Sounds like Michelin are caught in between a rock and a hard place. Love the Cup 2s though; have been running them for years now and haven’t found anything better for my use cases. Great on track but pretty easy to live with daily.
rkhan7862@reddit
what about tire technology interests you and what do you look forwards towards?
hi_im_bored13@reddit
I'm not the guy above but we've made insane strides over just the past decade in
For 1st, best way to quantify is the Carrera GT improving 16 seconds with its new OE tyres that porsche released
For 2nd, just look at the crossclimate2, weatherpeaks, weatherready, etc. that entire segment didn't exist 10 years ago, you needed to switch to dedicated winters
iamr3d88@reddit
Im gonna try the cross climate 2s on my gr corolla this year, hope they are as good as everyone says.
hi_im_bored13@reddit
You may be interested in the cross climate 3 sport
iamr3d88@reddit
I'll look into that! I love the summer tires on it, but I bought it as a year round car. I may still run summers and winters, but I know there is a long iffy bit in fall and spring when it can be 75-80 out, then snow next week where I live. So some winters that can stay on from early November til late April at least.
TinyRocktopus@reddit
I live up a mountain and work down the hill so it can be snowing in the morning and be 65 at work. I got the CC2s for my wife’s Prius and it handled the snow way better than a Prius has any right to. Nothing too deep but slush was no problem
Skensis@reddit
The 3s come out soon.
Had the 2s on my last car, they're fine, but unless you'll actually see snow there are better options.
iamr3d88@reddit
Ill absolutely see snow and ice
Not_A_Crazed_Gunman@reddit
I'd wait for the CrossClimate 3 Sport unless you have to replace your tires ASAP or get a killer deal on the 2
Teanut@reddit
I put WeatherReadys on my Accord and got around so much better in the snow in Omaha. They're just about perfect for that climate now. A true snow tire would be better if you had a job that was critical for you to show up even with 4+ inches of unplowed snow (e.g. physician, fire fighter, etc.) but for mostly cleared city streets or the inch or two I might encounter while the city was working to clear the streets, the 3PMSF tires really made me a convert.
sprchrgddc5@reddit
We have them on my wife’s HRV. They are really good all around the year.
I still prefer dedicated winter and summer tires tho. I had that on my Fiesta and it was like putting on boots in the winter and tennis shoes in the summer.
573banking702@reddit
As a tire sales guy, you’ll be very impressed.
hutacars@reddit
I had just gotten the original CrossClimate’s on my Tesla during the 2021 Texas freeze. While Jeeps were sliding into the ditch, I had no problems getting around. I drove every day in the snow and ice (to a friend’s house with power to work, then back to my house) just fine.
I have the CrossClimate 2s on it now, and drove through a major snowstorm earlier this year in Montana, with full whiteout conditions. Still not an issue at all.
HalfWheelDrive@reddit
I got cross climate 2s and I didn't know a tire could be that good, but I have em on a 4wd subaru, not sure how they're gonna feel on a GR car.
steves_garage@reddit
Sometimes also referred to as on-road all terrains too. I have Geolandar G015s on my car and love them. They feel like a typical all season in the summer - quiet with good enough grip in dry or wet conditions. I've driven snow tires in the summer, and these don't give that uneasy sloppy feeling at all. In the winter they truly grip like a snow tire. I don't do any proper off-roading with them, but they feel great on seasonal dirt roads, and grip fantastic when going up steep grades of lose dirt or rocks. Tread life has been good, though I did camber wear them while trying to dial in the lift on my car. I'll probably have to replace them sooner than later, but that's user error, not the tires fault..
BayLAGOON@reddit
The G015 has been replaced by the G018, considering the 015 was getting long in the tooth with Falken releasing the Wildpeak AT4 and BFG releasing the KO3. I got 015s because I've used them before, but when they wear out, I'm considering the Pirelli Scorpion XTM. They finally replaced the AT+ with something new as well.
steves_garage@reddit
Thanks for that, I wasn't aware the 018 had come out. I only really look into tires when I need them haha. I'm hoping I can get through the winter with my 015s and then I'll decide which way to go. But I generally like to stick with tires once I find something I like.
Lauzz91@reddit
They were getting significantly better but now due to environmental regulations are starting to slide backwards
For e.g. Euro 7 now applies to tyre emissions in terms of microplastics so low-abrasion tyres are now a thing, this reduces grip. Replacements of carbon-black with silica compounds further reduce tyre abrasion which limits grip. Bio-plasticisers are also being introduced rather than petroleum based ones which adds to the problem.
I'm finding certain new models of the same tyre to be worse than the older generations.
TP_Crisis_2020@reddit
No more blizzaks?!? 🤯
PNF2187@reddit
Blizzaks still have their place as a great dedicated winter tire, and they still outperform the likes of the CrossClimates, Weatherpeaks, and WeatherReadys in winter conditions, but top performing all-weathers are a good one set solution for a lot of people who get more mild-to-moderate winter conditions.
Nero_Wolff@reddit
What do you run on your 300SL. Is finding tires for that tough?
Bonerchill@reddit
https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/classic-car-tyres/mercedes/300.html
The CA67 is a good tire if you want better-than-period performance, but I have no experience pushing cars hard on it.
Nero_Wolff@reddit
I see thanks for the info!
unatleticodemadrid@reddit
Ha, I haven’t even driven it yet. Restoration+upgrades in progress. When I bought the car, it came with a set of spares, I believe they are Michelin’s 205 70VR15. Pirelli has an offering too but I haven’t looked into it.
JakesInSpace@reddit
For the street, Michelin Pilot Sport 4s are the best tires I’ve ever experienced.
mrfreshmint@reddit
Is that really your garage
unatleticodemadrid@reddit
Yes
TommyyyGunsss@reddit
You like the cup 2s better than the super sports? I guess if you’re tracking a decent amount it makes sense. I have the pilot sport 4s on my ISF and those things are super grippy.
unatleticodemadrid@reddit
PS4s last longer but aren’t so good on track. I’m partial to the Cup 2s.
woodsides@reddit
Did you try the Cup 2Rs? How much of a difference was it? I heard that it was a one lap wonder.
unatleticodemadrid@reddit
Better still than the regular Cup 2s but yes, I doubt I’d even get half a day out of 2Rs.
withsexyresults@reddit
They’re in different class of tires. Cup2 are tw200 track tires. Super sports and 4s are summer tires that get greasy quickly at the track
thiskillstheredditor@reddit
On the cup 2’s, for someone who rarely tracks would you still recommend them? Honestly I’ve got a bias against Pirellis but I’ve bought them for 3 of my cars recently and they’ve been damned good for daily.
unatleticodemadrid@reddit
You’re probably better off with Pilot Sport 4s. Cup 2’s definitely more track focused.
NoctD@reddit
Really happy I won the tire lottery for my Cayman - PS4S N0s live up to the hype, heard horrible things about P Zeros on P-cars.
I can't think of any car that comes with a great set of all-season tires though, its only with summer tires that you can get decent tires from the factory. Luckily I didn't get saddled with the Hankooks on my GLI, those are known to be utter trash. The Bridgestones aren't terri-bad but I'll be happy when it comes time to swap them out for some DWS06+ instead.
flatpetey@reddit
Yep. My dad buys those horrid infinitred tires or whatever. They suck on mile one and suck on mile ten thousand. Loud and shitty.
hi_im_bored13@reddit
Haven't heard of that one but Chinese tires have gotten better lately,
gt radial, saliun, lexani are acceptable, they're no Michelin but its not like 10yrs ago where you will fly off in even the slightest rain.
and then kumho (Korean, but acquired by the Chinese) is genuinely good depending on the model
Standard-Potential-6@reddit
I wonder how those would do for dollars per mile against a big brand economy tire. Not so much Kumho, they’re great as you say, but the others probably still have a shot.
I found a deal on Goodyear MaxLifes to replace Continental DWS06 on the Accord. Around half the cost for more tread life. Such an obvious downgrade in every way. Never again.
accordinglyryan@reddit
Accords with DWS06 gang
zboarderz@reddit
Got those for my civic sport manual and couldn’t be happier. 180hp I could pretty easily make the stock tires squeal but never with these. Cornering traction is much better too.
Did a ton of reading about various tires and these seemed like a great blend of traction & tire life. Close if not better than some summer/performance tires but all weather & rated for 30k miles.
accordinglyryan@reddit
Yeah I get about 35K out of mine, great tires
BTTWchungus@reddit
My next set I was thinking going summer tires, how do you like traction on the DWS06?
KellerMB@reddit
DWS06+ have lots of dry grip and perform well in the wet and acceptably in snow.
Their limitations are that they lack sidewall stiffness, steering feedback and extended warm weather performance. They don't turn-in like a UHP summer tire and they're a little squirmy. A great winter tire in the midwest.
BTTWchungus@reddit
What would you recommend instead that deals better with those limitations? Winter performance unneeded in Socal
withsexyresults@reddit
Go with their summer compound ecs02. Big fan of those
bschmidt25@reddit
DWS06 are great. I've been buying them for years. They perform well in all conditions. I even had them on my E39 Touring in winter and they were fine. I'll sometimes go with Pilot Sport AS4s too. The Pilots are a bit more sporty (more rigid sidewall, a little more noise, a little more harsh). The DWS are probably a better all around tire for most people.
Lefthandedsock@reddit
I’ve used the DWS-06+ on my E36 M3. They honestly feel like they have more grip than Firestone Indy 500 (Bridgestone RE003 rebrand) summer tires. Probably wouldn’t hold up on track like the Firestones, but they’re grippy at road driving temps.
accordinglyryan@reddit
I've never felt limited by them they grip really well
z2x2@reddit
The Pilot Sport AS4’s are the better tire IMO, when they’re in stock. Currently rocking the Continentals and it’s enough of a difference that I’ll try ordering the Pilots in advance next time. The DWS’s just feel stiffer and louder (thought they were going to be quieter) in exchange for noticeable longevity.
mopar39426ml@reddit
I'm still playing around with tire options on my Abarth.
Tread life is great, but it absolutely murders tires anyway, so I'm most concerned with grip and ride quality.
My favorite tire so far is the Vredestein Quatrac, which I ran in a single autocross event and did far better than I had any right to. It was run year 'round and actually might've had the best tread life of any tire that's been on it so far... They just got loud as hell when they were about dead.
FWIW, I've also had General G-Max, Continental ProContact, and Continental ExtremeContact tires on it. The ProContact is shit. G-Max has been alright and is about to get switched off, and the ExtremeContacts have mostly been summer/autocross use, and have been fine. I only had the ExtremeContacts because they were CHEAP and I was at least willing to give them a shot.
I'm avoiding Pirelli due to prior experiences with them on a Charger. I had a set of Coopers I loved on the Charger though.
Bassracerx@reddit
Nitto neogens get decent reviews for hot hatches / sporty cars. Also don't sleep on kumhos.
ice445@reddit
When I had my Abarth I ran Indy 500's on it, they were really good. More than enough grip for that light of a car, and they wore well.
mkdz@reddit
I had Pirelli snow tires on my Miata that I thought were really good
Ancient-Way-6520@reddit
They were probably the OEM tire that came on the car new. There are some exceptions, but usually OEM tires suck performance-wise regardless of brand.
mkdz@reddit
DWS are one of the best if not the best all around tires out there.
ecefour@reddit
I buy gt radial champiro UHP tires and usually pay around $60 per tire.
They only last 30k miles but zero complaints for the price
stillpiercer_@reddit
30k miles for a performance tire honestly isn’t terrible, especially at that price. If they got to even like 80% of the capability of a Conti or Michelin I’d absolutely give that a try.
ecefour@reddit
Well when I said they last “30k” that’s down to the legal limit. Realistically I need to replace them a 20-25k
But again, I can’t complain for the price
DrLarzo@reddit
Shit, I get about 25k on my continental dws06s as well. So yeah not bad at all 🤷♂️
Eyehopeuchoke@reddit
I feel like the continental are the best bang for buck performance tire. I run them on my modded m3 and my modded hellcat.
stillpiercer_@reddit
I agree Contis are excellent, but calling them bang for the buck is debatable. I guess if your cars are worth more than most people’s houses it’s all relative, but a full set of Contis, plus mount and balance is over $1000 in my size, which is a shit ton of money for most people.
Economics of tires varies INSANELY depending on size, for me it is hardly more expensive at all (225/40/18) to buy an incredible tire vs. something that is terrible. On larger tires you can save quite a bit by buying a worse tire.
Eyehopeuchoke@reddit
The killer for me is I run staggered setup on both cars.
nondescriptzombie@reddit
Buy Generals. They're like Continentals, but without all of the stupid experimental technology that fails. Also a better warranty.
withsexyresults@reddit
Huh what does contis have that fail
hi_im_bored13@reddit
I had saliun tyres on my old model 3 because I knew I was trading it shortly and couldn't be arsed to put 8 trillion dollars worth of pilot sport as4's
they worked fine, efficiency was about the same, bit nosier, I wouldn't mind recommending them if someone was in a bit of a pinch
a lot of the fear comes comes from that '14 article where CR blasted Chinese tires back when they were complete dogshit, and after trying worst of the worst of brands.
Jakooboo@reddit
My "old Tesla has tire noise and I didn't want to spend $200 per tire." Bro your problems are not our problems.
fmjintervention@reddit
Lol I don't blame them. If I'm trading in a car or the lease is ending and I need to put tyres on, I'm finding the cheapest set of second hand LingLongs I can find. It then becomes the dealer's problem, I'm not donating them a set of PS4s
The_Strom784@reddit
I have their Champiro A/S tires, I paid about $86 per tire for a sporty sedan. They're not bad at all. I've already put 30k on them and they still have some life.
SarcasticOptimist@reddit
Hankook I think is Korean and the RS4 pretty much the autocross/enduro tire on a budget.
microwavedave27@reddit
My Hyundai came with Hankooks from the factory and I have no complaints
Bobatt@reddit
My only experience with Hankook was the iPike winter tires on a CRV. They were pretty good.
Oakland_Zoo@reddit
Lexani like the 24" chrome rims on the Escalade lexani?
04limited@reddit
Traction for those no name tires have definitely improved. Biggest issue I still see is just general low quality construction. Balancing issues, hit or miss tread life.
Had some federal snow tires looks like they stopped selling in the US but for the money they gripped snow better than toyos and dunlops I had. They’d last 2 seasons max however. But the traction can’t be beat for $70 a tire. Milestar, Lionhart has done me well also. Only bad set I’ve had is Premiorri snow tires brought them 2 years ago I only have 1 winter season left. And they’ve rumbled like mud tires since new. With what shops are charging for mount & balance these days it’s not even worth buying these cheap tires unless you’re getting rid of the car.
OpneFall@reddit
Lexani is great. I have a lot of cars so I'm not needing high mileage, but got the cost they're amazing.
mk4_wagon@reddit
I bought a car that had Lexani all seasons on it and they fell on their face outside of dry conditions. Rain felt like snow, and snow felt like ice.
Thomas_633_Mk2@reddit
I have Rapid P609's on the back of my Falcon and they are quite good. I run RE004's on the Mazda (overkill but fun overkill) and RE003's on the front of the Falcon, but they tend to cook themselves on higher powered cars so I went with the Rapid to avoid that.
IJstDntKnwShtAnymore@reddit
Pretty sure GT Radial(Giti) is a Singaporean company and not Chinese. They have factories in Indonesia.
hi_im_bored13@reddit
Good catch, didn't realize
DetectiveNarrow@reddit
Lexani tires really shocked me. 1 year on a set on my 6-6 Altima and they still ride almost new. At 70 a tire I’d be more than satisfied getting 3+ years out of them, the way I drive
Captain_Alaska@reddit
On the other hand my Octavia had Opals tires on it when I bought it used, 2 of them have split apart between the sidewall and tread 7 months apart.
bemenaker@reddit
Khumos have been great for me
UngusChungus94@reddit
Mine get the job done, but I suspect they're also the main driver behind excessive road noise. Which is to be expected from a do-it-all tire on a budget, so I can't complain too much.
puddud4@reddit
My dad got some high mile tires. They dry rotted before the tread ran out
djsnoopmike@reddit
Has no one learned from Paul Walker?
pdp10@reddit
Tires age from ultraviolet light and ozone. Best life is kept indoors away from ultraviolet, and also away from any possible ozone producers.
assblast420@reddit
Don't drive 93mph through city streets?
Car-face@reddit
yeah this is me - I usually don't bother with anything approaching high treadlife because they'll go off before I get near the EOL. The only exception is maybe semi-slicks on my mini, and even then they're probably going hard by the time they need replacing.
Seref15@reddit
My tires also dry rot well before the tread runs out but that's because I don't have a life and don't go anywhere
DrZedex@reddit
We always called them Econosuck
GOATSQUIRTS@reddit
Ten thousand is nothing for tires
standardtissue@reddit
Maybe I'm on the fringe but I really like great performance vs durability out of my tire whether I'm going to sheer blank asphalt stickiness or water/mud/dirt/sand capability or whatever. The tire is literally where the entire rest of the car - balance, suspension, alignment - meets the road. Make it a good interface.
bstyledevi@reddit
I work for an aftermarket wheel/tire distributor.
I had a discussion with an industry contact some years ago that clued me in on this kind of thing, but in a different way. Let's say you go to a local tire store to buy a set of tires, and you want a Michelin Primacy MXM4. They quote you $200 a tire. As a price conscious consumer, you then shop around and see that Wal-Mart is selling the same size Michelin Primacy MXM4 for $150 a tire, so its best to go with them, right?
Except the tire you're getting from Wal-Mart isn't the same as the tire you're getting from Joe's Tire Shop.
Let's say that tire costs Michelin $100 to make. Wal-Mart approaches Michelin and says "we want that tire, we want to buy 50,000 of them, and we will pay you $80 a tire for them." So instead of missing out on this giant sale, Michelin makes a version of that tire with a slightly lower rubber grade, missing a sidewall ply, missing a cap ply, etc. Michelin then sells that tire to Wal-Mart at a lower price point, and they label it as a Michelin Primacy MXM4, but itll have a tiny D or something next to the name. Otherwise identical in design. That little D indicates it was made specifically for that large distributor and is a cheaper version of the same tire.
SamsonFox2@reddit
I know Costco does this with Michelins, but I didn't see it with other stores.
My experience with tires was that big brands exclusively carry the version of the tire with the highest speed ratings, while smaller shop may carry the same tire with a lower speed rating, often at a lower price. Do I really need a tire that is rated to 275 km/h if my car is e-locked at 180 km/h?
bstyledevi@reddit
Technically no, but also most stores won't put on a tire that isn't speed rated identical to or higher than the one that came on the car from the factory.
WhippersnapperUT99@reddit
I wish you could have a choice of tire when you buy a new car. I live in a heavy snow state and would prefer to have "all weather tires" on my new vehicle.
Tuxedo_Muffin@reddit
Porque_no_los_dos.gif
A tire with pretty okay driving dynamics and medium-high tread life is probably good for most people. I usually go for rain performance with the better tread wear in my budget. Buying tires sucks, but sliding off the road sucks more.
anon403536@reddit
What do you recommend that fits that bill?
Tuxedo_Muffin@reddit
I haven't bought tires in about 3-4 years since my commute changed, so I don't know what's available at the moment. There's new options all the time. But generally I've always had good experiences with Michelin. I never willingly buy Continental.
SexBobomb@reddit
I'm trying AT tires for the first time and I like em, wonder how they'll handle winter (they are snow rated)
Logitech4873@reddit
Extremely poorly. Especially ice performance will be poor. Real winter tires are a completely different category.
SexBobomb@reddit
They meet 3 peak standard what are you talking about
Grabthar-the-Avenger@reddit
3 peak isn’t a particularly hard standard to meet. It’s basically “be 10% better than this old Uniroyal Tigerpaw pattern”
There’s a pretty big difference between more jack of all trades AT or All Weather tires that tend to just barely hit that checkbox vs a full blown winter tire like Blizzaks that go all in on compounding/construction geared for cold.
That being said you’re definitely better off than All Seasons, just don’t expect to able to drive on an ice rink
Logitech4873@reddit
All season tires always perform INCREDIBLY poorly in winter tire tests.
What are the tires you're talking about?
SexBobomb@reddit
All terrain tires are not all season tires
Logitech4873@reddit
Ok? Name the tires.
SexBobomb@reddit
You making that mistake makes me question how you would otherwise distinguish snow tires from AT tires
Nokian outpost apt in this case
Logitech4873@reddit
Yeah they're considered "all year" tires. Wouldn't trust that for actual winter conditions. These types of tires are always a compromise, as they can't use the softer and far better compounds found in real winter tires.
SexBobomb@reddit
They literally have the qualification required to be real winter tires
Logitech4873@reddit
Which, again, is very easy to get. Even the worst Chinese winter tires have that. It's irrelevant when your braking distance is 2-3x as long on ice as it would be with a real winter tire.
SexBobomb@reddit
My point is there is no differentiating this from a ‘real winter tire’ except your insistences
Logitech4873@reddit
Yes there is. Winter tire compound vs. all season compounds. Huge difference.
SexBobomb@reddit
Oh look you’re talking about all seasons again
Logitech4873@reddit
Yes, as the tire you mentioned is one according to Nokian's own website.
DoubleOrNothing90@reddit
I'm considering switching to AT tires for my F150 and running them year round instead of having a dedicated set of winter tires. Looking at the BF Goodrich KO3 which have the 3 peak winter rating.
Logitech4873@reddit
There's no good all-year tire. It will suffer in winter. You will slide on ice.
BayLAGOON@reddit
KO3 is significantly better in the wet when they wear in compared to the KO2. I've heard horror stories of half-worn KO2s handling like ice on trucks in 2WD in the rain. There are a few decent winter reviews for them, though.
However, as someone who sells tires as part of their job, the most ridiculous hangup I've had selling them is that people who swear by the KO2 hate the tread design of the KO3 because it's not as "tough-looking". Picking an older model based on looks is some of the dumbest shit I've ever had to deal with.
DoubleOrNothing90@reddit
Ha, I'm going for the KO3 specifically because they address the issues with the KO2.
LuckyBagota@reddit
So am I reading this right? If I go to a tire shop and order a replacement Michelin tire that’s the same model as my OEM tire the tread grip pattern is different.
expertninja@reddit
It’s wild how much modern tires can transform an older car. The tech is so good these days, you can’t compare the 0-60 times from a 1991 Diablo versus a 2022 corvette because you can cut a second off the time of the old car with a new set of treads.
doctorcapslock@reddit
i remember reading somewhere that the Ruf CTR was scary back in the day and that it felt tame and slow on modern tyres lol
joe_canadian@reddit
And the Carrera GT. 16 seconds faster on modern tires.
Bonerchill@reddit
At the same time, though, switching a car like an early 911 to modern 195/65R15 all-seasons makes it worse to drive than running 185R15 Pirelli CN36s, which are a vintage-pattern performance tire.
And the Diablo runs an odd combo, 245/40R17 front and 335/35R17 rear, which no one other than Hoosier and Pirelli makes. So you have to deviate from factory sizing, going with a 245/40 front and 315/35 rear.
It’s getting difficult to update cars through the early 1990s because, outside of collector-focused tire runs, their 15-, 16-, and 17-inch tire combinations are harder and harder to find in a single compound.
pdp10@reddit
We used to say the same thing in the '80s. Plus ca change, plus ca meme chose.
r_golan_trevize@reddit
It is astounding how much better rubber compounds and tread designs have gotten relatively recently. I’ve had my Mustang long enough to see the progress first hand on the same car. The high performance all seasons I have on there today out perform some of the summer tires I had when it was a younger car in summer conditions and rain, and I don’t have to worry about them getting sketchy when it starts getting cold.
turniphat@reddit
I can't even image what it was like trying to drive a muscle car on boas ply tires. Must have been terrible.
MangoAtrocity@reddit
If memory serves, Porsche slapped a brand new set of tires on a Carrera GT and sent it around the ring recently. It dropped the lap time by like 15 seconds.
nerdpox@reddit
Damn right. last year, Porsche tested an otherwise stock Carrera GT on brand new Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2's and shaved 15 seconds off the nurburgring time set in 2004 on PS2's.
Seref15@reddit
I remember reading something about production sports cars from not that long ago, like early 2000s, having problems when you track them on modern rubber because the bolts and fasteners weren't designs for the amount of lateral Gs modern rubber can let the car take
maaaatttt_Damon@reddit
Engineering Explained had a good video that kind of goes through this whole thing in just over 10 years of tire technology
https://youtu.be/cXNolTd5i20?si=ats-Eb5FwQTsV1
withoutapaddle@reddit
A great example of this is the original Lamborghini Countach. It was considered a supercar and had the same 0-60 time as a modern... Volkswagen GTI, a slightly super up economy car, not even a proper sports car, let alone supercar.
Not knocking on the GTI, I love mine, and it's a fun car, but it blows my mind how fast relatively common and affordable cars are today compared to flagship exotics a few decades back.
V48runner@reddit
I get the best all seasons Michelin makes, then run winter tires, and end up replacing my all seasons due to dry rot, since I run winters half the year. I'm not sure what I'm getting out of this, other than optimal winter traction.
mbn8807@reddit
i have crossclimate2s on our cars and love them. We dont often get dumped on anymore with snow and if it does snow a lot once or twice a season we generally wouldn't be driving in it. The wet performance is fantastic. I think good tires are worth the premium, for a couple hundred dollars over something kinda shitty you get better performance when it would matter.
ILikeLimericksALot@reddit
I have CC2s on my errand car and they're a fit and forget solution year round.
I do fit winters to my most powerful car though , as that one does tour internationally in winter.
csaliture@reddit
I now have them on all my vehicles. Best all season tires I've ever tried. I don't even bother putting my winter tires on anymore. The all around performance is more than etiquette in just about any weather and the tread life means they take me at least three years to go through them. Those tires hit all the important metrics.
Logitech4873@reddit
They are incredibly bad compared to real winter tires, so be careful especially on ice.
csaliture@reddit
I live in Minnesota and my winter tires are blizzaks. So I think I have a pretty good frame of reference. They are not incredibly bad compared to my blizzaks. In fact, they have been so reasonable in snow that I rarely put the blizzaks on. They definitely are not as good, but to call them incredibly bad is very disingenuous.
Logitech4873@reddit
I'm not familiar with the blizzak brand, no idea how those compare to the regular selection of Nordic winter tires - but when all season tires are compared to actual winter tires, they always fall very short especially on ice where they perform horribly. This makes them very dangerous in real winter conditions.
https://www.motor.no/tester/piggfrie-vinterdekk-2024-helarsdekk-michelin-crossclimate-2/287888
You can translate this article. But the gist of it is that the Crossclimate 2 tires ended up with almost TWICE the braking distance on ice compared to the best winter tires. That's an awful performance, and that makes them unsafe on icy roads.
nicholt@reddit
Yeah you'd think it's too good to be true but it seems to actually be true. Everyone up here in Canada should be getting these instead of normal all seasons. Our winter conditions are really treacherous and a lot of people still have no control or grip with their stock tires.
Logitech4873@reddit
Nobody should be using all season tires in actual winter conditions.
Yotsubato@reddit
Where do you live? Cause even up in Buffalo, we dont get enough snow anymore for dedicated winter tires to be worth it.
I just run all seasons year round in my AWD vehicle.
V48runner@reddit
South Dakota. We had a mild year last year. I still like how they perform when it's -40 and the rubber doesn't turn into a hockey puck.
UncleFumbleBuck@reddit
I also just run the best Michelin all seasons in the right size. I did research for years and ended up back at Michelin anyway, so now I don't bother. They're not insanely expensive, and I get a great overall tire.
I've never understood cheaping out on tires unless you're really broke. The folks I work with professionally make a good living and some of them still drive around on bald GoodnCheap Chinese garbage.
r_golan_trevize@reddit
I’ve noticed the same thing in my office parking lot. $50,000 car, $50 tires. And tires worn down to the belts. Y’all make good money, what are you doing? I guess they just don’t notice the stability/traction/ABS lights freaking out every time they try to maneuver in the rain.
Even when I was broke, if I couldn’t afford a new set of quality tires, I’d buy quality used tires. I’d rather have a good tire from a reputable brand with half its useful tread left (always check the date codes and rubber condition of course) than a brand new set of no name, bargain basement tires.
Hell, I did that with my old beater truck even when I could afford to put good tires on it. At the glacial rate it accumulated miles, a new set would have dry rotted with nearly full tread on it so every couple of years, one end got a fresh pair of whatever reputable truck tire the used tire shop had on the shelf. That system worked out great and saved me a lot of money.
Even today, I always check to see if someone happens to be selling some new takeoffs I can use before I commit to ordering a set and booking an installation.
eBay came to the rescue when I had a tire get destroyed by bizarre puncture (it was either a 10mm wrench or a lead tire weight. I’ve had some weird punctures… there was a piece of gravel too) when they still had enough tread that I didn’t want replace the whole set but worn enough that I didn’t want to replace just a pair either. Found a matching tire with matching tread depth wear online and was able to get the full life out of that set.
There are options out there if you’re broke but care about your tires.
xstreamReddit@reddit
Why would you not run summer tires?
V48runner@reddit
All season ties are great in the rain and are extremely quiet. They ride nice too. I'd run summer tires on something more sporty
Peter_Panarchy@reddit
Outside of extreme conditions, a standard summer tire will outgrip an all season in the wet.
V48runner@reddit
I'm sure. But these tires are very, very quiet and ride nice. It's always a compromise. If I still had my WRX, that's the route I would have gone, but this setup is ideal for my Crosstour.
Also, if there was a Subaru WRX wagon still available, that's what I would have bought instead. 😆
ManufacturerBest2758@reddit
Some places have unpredictable weather and will get snow or cold temps in summer
tailkinman@reddit
Yup. Weather in the mountains changes quickly, and it's unusual but not unheard of to have snow from September through May even if it doesn't always stick around.
Ecsta@reddit
I run my winters from late Sept to late April every year...
Still worth it to have a couple months of UHP summers.
velociraptorfarmer@reddit
For example: Minnesota is expecting sub-freezing temps in the next week or 2, likely followed by temps in the 80s again.
I've also seen it in May where there was 18" of snow one week, then a week later it was 90.
Larcya@reddit
May of 2017/2018. Snowstorm one week. The very next sunday down in Red wing it was 105F.
It was wierd as shit.
dam_sharks_mother@reddit
That's an extreme example you have to admit. Even then, I still don't think I'd be putting all season tires on my car.
withoutapaddle@reddit
Well, my Extreme Contact Sport 02s are not coming off just because of that possible freak weather, haha.
I don't really have trouble running extreme performance summer tires in Minnesota, and switching to Nokians every Oct/Nov.
Tanto63@reddit
That's where I'm at. I get more summer-aligned all seasons for summer and Blizzaks for the winter.
Mr__Snek@reddit
because unless you drive a sports car, your options for summers (in the north american market) are incredibly limited or completely nonexistent. and the ones that you can buy are generally sports tires rsther than touring summers.
xstreamReddit@reddit
Are Michelin Primacy for example not a thing in the US for regular cars?
Mr__Snek@reddit
the only primacy we get is an all season
ZachtoseIntolerant@reddit
they didn’t specify what kind of vehicle. I’d struggle to see the appeal of grippy summer tires on a honda pilot.
xstreamReddit@reddit
There is something in between a Pilot Sport and an all season though.
me_gusta_beer@reddit
I do the exact same thing.
whatthewhat_007@reddit
You need a good set of all-weather tires
V48runner@reddit
I already have an extra set of wheels and sensors with all the tires mounted. It also gives me an opportunity to change the oil once a year during spring when I put the all seasons back on.
Winter tires are simply incredible. I can't imagine winter driving without them.
whatthewhat_007@reddit
My preference is all season/winter split as well. That said, these new all-weather tires are impressive, though. Winter tires are still superior in pure ice and extreme cold, but for snow and normal cold temps, all-weathers are a legit alternative.
creckers@reddit
I also go for the michelins crossclimates. I ran the cc2's for years and the last me about 60k km with one rotation on my '19 kona electric. I just bought 2 for my wifes car and was told the cc2's are updated to the cc3's. And now i am a little envious.
srcorvettez06@reddit
This is what I do for my wife’s car. She has Cross Climate 2s during the summer and transition months, blizzaks in the winter months. I run blizzaks in the winter and Continental ESC2s in the summer.
573banking702@reddit
You’re getting a happy to see you tire shop
TireShineWet@reddit
I always thought it’s interesting how tire companies lose money on making a longer lasting tire. But if it doesn’t last long they’ll get no sale at all. Wonder where the sweet spot is
OhSillyDays@reddit
How do you know they lose money on long tread wear tires?
My understanding is they just use a harder compound that reduces the rate of wear that doesnt give as good grip.
TireShineWet@reddit
Longer tread = less tires sold
Yotsubato@reddit
Longer tread life = harder compound = worse grip = worse performance in rain
OhSillyDays@reddit
Longer tread life = beating the competitors = more volume
Toyota builds cars that last forever and seem to be doing very well.
TireShineWet@reddit
Yeah that was my original comment. Asking what the sweet spot is between making long lasting tires to be competitive but not too competitive to where they don’t wear down and need replaced
Erigion@reddit
They probably make more money on the high performance sporty tires to make up for longer lasting, all-season tires. Not to mention those sporty tires just wear out much faster, both because of the compound/construction and how they're used by the driver that they need to be replaced more often.
Also, those new (not really new anymore though) the US all-weather tires (3PMS rated) like the Michelin CrossClimate cost more than their all-season tires so they're been able to capture some of the market that would have bought a dedicated cheaper snow/ice tire for winter use.
corn_sugar_isotope@reddit
Where I live they probably make a buttload on oversized A/T truck tires that commute on pavement for 98% of their life. Since everyone is dropping brands, pretty happy with Hankook and Yokahama.
18voltbattery@reddit
Information imbalance for sure… but I’ll bet a pile of money the sweet spot is based on the customer not knowing how long tires could theoretically last.
If they had a 250k mile tire that rode well and didn’t cause environmental damage but they knew they could only sell you 1 per vehicle and the price elasticity of all buyers wouldn’t allow for the premium to do this (at 4-10k, most buyers wouldn’t even consider it)…the tire companies would dump that tire like last weeks’ sushi for some sweet sweet petrol cash.
scheides@reddit
Drivers are dumb but cost conscious and don’t want to deal with even the most basic maintenance.
pele4096@reddit
The OE Bridgestone Ecopia 442 tires on my 2018 Mazda CX-9 were terrible even when new.
Poor ice traction. Poor snow traction. Poor wet traction. Poor dry traction. Poor mud traction. Sidewalls too squishy.
Unfortunately they lasted Lasted 50k miles/2.5 years before the tread was down to the wear bars.
Immediately replaced with Michelin Defender LTX tires. Much better traction all around. Much better road feel. I'm now at 130k miles (80k miles/4.5 years on the tires) and they're still okay but probably will be replaced by winter.
OE tires just get you off the dealership lot and to the tire dealer. Get better rubber afterwards.
QcRoman@reddit
Traction matters most to me.
What's the point of a tire that will last forever if it's dry rotted before it's worn out?
mrmet69999@reddit
It took us forever to get lightbulbs to last more than a couple of months, when we knew it was possible to make them last for years. Maybe eventually the tire industry will follow suit.
hellrazor862@reddit
Where you getting your lightbulbs? These friggin LEDs are expensive as hell and I've replaced most of the ones in my house like twice in the last 4 years already. It's ridiculous.
testthrowawayzz@reddit
The Cree LED (60w equivalent) bulbs in my bathroom are over 5 years old and still running.
The other LEDs I have in the house I only switched them out early because I wanted to try a different color temperature or a higher CRI bulb, not because they failed (except 2 that failed in the past 8 years)
mrmet69999@reddit
I don’t buy the offbrand bulbs. Any of the major brand LED bulbs I’ve bought have lasted several years, with consistent use.
Shmokesshweed@reddit
They're like $2 each for a 60w equivalent.
fatitalianstallion@reddit
Only true for people who are driving non-performance oriented vehicles. I just want all seasons with the performance of a PS4S.
Strange-Muffin-2791@reddit
hd
SapphireSire@reddit
That's not true at all...
"Drivers"who love driving want season specific tires...summer, winter, rain, etc....
Most people are not drivers, most people use their cars like an appliance and wouldn't notice the difference because they buy top heavy, overly gimmicky new cars bc they're new and not better....those are the people who also panick when things aren't spoonfed to them.
Car companies vary, even from car to car. Tires on a Bugatti cost more than some peoples house...while tires on a Hyundai are merely there to roll the car off the lot.
Boundish91@reddit
Yeah.. I'll stick with summer and winter tyres.
Logitech4873@reddit
This is the safest option by far.
Sarionum@reddit
Always like Michelin because they were the only tire brand that actually got their rated tread life warranty if you rotated them and had proper tire pressures and no suspension damage or wear. For whatever reason my Bridgestone tires always lasted half of their warranty if that, and generally sucked all around.
freneticalm@reddit
It's a bit ridiculous that these tires have customized versions for each OEM. I know where my priorities are for tires, but that's adding another layer of complexity in searching.
Also, LRR tires are terrible.
stoned-autistic-dude@reddit
Usually, the OEM tires are sold through the manufacturer. Like BMW's Michelin Pilot Sport 4S has 4 compounds per tire whereas the regular PS4S has 3 compounds, and the compounds are different front and rear so they're not able to be rotated front and rear (assuming a square wheel setup). I believe the sidewalls are stiffer on the front tires to allow for better turning response and the tire sidewalls are stiffer overall. The regular PS4S was insanely soft for my liking and felt more like a really sticky comfort tire than it did a performance tire.
dam_sharks_mother@reddit
Always pay attention to the variant of a tire when you buy it. Tire Rack and Discount Tire do a good job of making it clear if you're buying the OE tire or the generic version.
530nairb@reddit
I just wish my pilot sport 4S tires lasted more than 20k.
asad137@reddit
I'm surprised by this. Naϊvely I would have thought that a harder, longer-wearing tread compound would also have lower rolling resistance.
testthrowawayzz@reddit
My ideal tires are quiet, have decent traction in the rain, and low enough rolling resistance for better fuel economy.
Snow traction (doesn't snow here) and tread life are pretty low on the list of priorities.
SoterPie@reddit
I want a CrossClimate 3 that lasts 80K miles.
Snazzy21@reddit
This attitude about tires being the same and wanting whatever is cheapest is why the market is so competitive. When people become fanboys the innovation stops and the prices go up, like what happened to smartphones and game consoles. If brand loyalty isn't strong, companies cant raise prices for nothing in return. Most normies I encounter who are brand loyal, are loyal to Michelin.
I can't name another product at the price point where there are this many recognizable competitors
InkedInspector@reddit
Meanwhile I’m over here buying borderline cheater tires and just burning a set or two a year lol.
randomcanyon@reddit
I want longer lasting "run flat" tires that don't cost $350 a piece and are a little unavailable.
costafilh0@reddit
Change the tires yourself and sell the ones that came with the car?
People are being infantilized and treated like mentally challenged children. Wake the fuck up!
Fadedfaith451@reddit
My OEM Michellin MXM4 didn't last for jack squat and the performance wasn't good at all. The winters has been pretty mild here in Connecticut as of late so I've been running the dws06 plus all year. They lasted 70K miles (FWD, rotating every 7500) which I thought was really good for the performance . Got a new wheel set with Pirelli P Zeros for the summer. They didn't make it to September Before the tread was gone. Would be nice if we can select tire compounds between long lasting and performance
V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit
MXM4 is an outdated all season tire, it's no surprised not that good. However, this tyre is still been used by OE tyre, Tesla is one of automakers still using MXM4 for Model 3.
Fadedfaith451@reddit
I hope they tweeked it for the tesla because it couldnt handle the torque from my Little turbo, I can't imagine it doing well with electric
STboiii8200@reddit
Continental ExtremeContact DWS 06 Plus in my opinion would be a pretty good answer for this dilemma. Best tire I’ve had so far.
V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit
I doubt we would be able to see prefect tyre that tire maker and drivers all wanting in any future.
0peRightBehindYa@reddit
I can genuinely state that I've never considered tread life when buying a set of tires. I want the most grip in any given situation since those 4 contact patches the size of a sheet of notebook paper are all that's holding my 4400lb, V8 powered sedan to the road.
Ftpini@reddit
I live in ohio. Days where the temperature swings 40 degrees F are not exactly uncommon and our overall temperature ranges from 110 to -40 F. We also average 26” of snow and over 41” of rainfall each year. The only reasonable option are all season tires. For fancy folks they can have a second set of tires and wheels for the 2-3 months it’s consistently below freezing temps.
So I always aim for the best all season tires I can get. I’ve had good luck with Continental DWS but I go for Pilot Sport AS4. Tread life would be great, but I need my tires to work year round and in literally all weather conditions.
olov244@reddit
I don't really put tons of miles on my cars, I only want them to not be worthless in the rain/cold
SpaceghostLos@reddit
I want tread life and my car to feel like it’s floating on air.
Redbulldildo@reddit
"The sky is blue" level headline. Both want to spend as little money as possible for the best effect.