Underground shelters?
Posted by J701PR4@reddit | preppers | View on Reddit | 59 comments
I am retiring to either Arizona or Colorado in two years. We are buying land and having our house custom built.
We’d like to have a large enough bunker to live in for a while if necessary. Google gives us lots of companies that build these but I have no idea which are solid & reliable vs those who churn out crappy ones.
Any advice of reliable companies?
incruente@reddit
There are a few that have lasted, but I've never really seen any of them as a positive when it comes to cost/benefit. The sky is the limit on price, and none of them are really what I'd call "affordable". But more than that, you have exactly zero confidentiality. The machinery, the noise, the staff; you'd have to spend a few million dollars importing labor, keeping them totally isolated and unaware of their location, etc. if you wanted to make sure no one knew where it was.
Also, most of the commercial shelters I've seen suffer from serious deign problems. For example, many of them have a single entrance, and it opens outward; depending on what you're planning for, you are one piece of heavy debris on that door away from slowly starving to death.
For my money, you're far better off reading "Nuclear War Survival Skills" by Kresson Kearny, learning what sorts of flaws are common in shelter designs, and then maybe tackling it yourself or with a local contractor. If you need to hire in labor, keep the labor force small and see if you can manage to keep the real purpose a secret; for example, have them build most of it as a "root cellar", then add in the details later yourself that would betray its real function.
UnhappyDescription29@reddit
Move to a nation that doesn’t make nuclear enemies.
smsff2@reddit
This is preposterous. You can look up a list of countries nuclear powers have attacked before, and at least 99% of them are not nuclear armed.
Brudegan@reddit
Its a very short list with one country causing most conflicts in one way or another.
But imho having nuclear weapons is the only protection not receiving freedom bombs. Sanctioned to death maybe but at least not a bombed wasteland.
smsff2@reddit
Yes, if we count conflicts one by one. However, if we consider the death toll, the winner would be completely different—perhaps even two winners, depending on how you count. China would win in absolute numbers, while Russia’s death toll is better documented and studied with greater confidence. If we focus on nuclear threshold states, the winner would change once again, and this time, it would be Germany.
Brudegan@reddit
I dont agree or disagree with you...its just that the history i learned was (and is right now) manipulated quite often so im not sure whats true or not.
What i see right now is that the "enemy's" propaganda seems quite often plausible enough while our propaganda doesnt even add up without knowing what the other side says about it.
Imho historians in a few decades will probably decide what was true when they ask themself how WW3 could happen and why none of us did anything to prevent it. But im afraid "my" side wont be the good side (again...like the last time).
tehdamonkey@reddit
I used to do strategic targeting in the cold war and battle damage assessments. Most non aligned countries ports that could be utilized as secondary military facilities were targeted along with their strategic production facilities (oil, gas) by both sides... as it was assumed they would be quickly seized and used as the mainland was destroyed,
....So you die day 4 rather than day 1.
incruente@reddit
A. No. As much as the US has real problems, I am unaware of any nation where I would seriously expect to be able to build a better life.
B. In a serious exchange, I doubt it would matter. Fallout does not care what your borders are.
MiamiTrader@reddit
I think a deep basement is more useful and practical. Not need for these massive underground steel structures. Just build a storm cellar out of reinforced cinder blocks with proper vapor barriers/ waterproofing.
You can throw a heavy duty door on it if you like.
Grigor50@reddit
But... why? Why would you hide in a bunker, if you're living in the countryside? No one is going to bomb you, nor will there be any nuclear explosions there... just for fun?
TheRealBunkerJohn@reddit
Fallout can travel hundreds of miles. Then there's severe weather, ultimate hide away cave...that's a few reasons that come to mind.
Grigor50@reddit
Fallout "can" indeed travel, but do you want to hide in there for months? And hide away cave... what would you hide from...?
TheRealBunkerJohn@reddit
Well it's irrelevant if I want to hide for X time. If there's fallout outside, the alternative is radiation poisoning. So, yes, I would want to shelter as long as needed. And you wouldn't need to shelter for months. Most likely a few weeks in a global exchange, but depending on fallout patterns it may be longer.
And the hide away cave is a play on "man cave" basically a chill theater/game/whatever room.
Grigor50@reddit
Why not just shelter indoors with a good ventilation system? Why build thick armed concrete walls underground... just for a man cave? Or for a hypothetical nuclear war that would either not affect you, or kill you anyway?
TheRealBunkerJohn@reddit
Because a bunker offers many, MANY more factors of protection than a home. A normal home, depending on the scenario, may not offer enough protection against fallout. A basement could be retrofitted, yes. But a bunker would be ideal in 99% of the scenarios. A normal home is not ideal.
As for a man cave, why not? I'm suggesting an alternate use for prep regarding a disaster that (hopefully) may never happen.
Grigor50@reddit
I mean, if you have millions, and you like to waste money on whatever, then sure, be my guest. I'm simply not understanding why a bunke would be needed outside of a military situation. If it's in the middle of nowhere, who would bomb you? If it's the question of forest fires, then it means the house would burn down completely, become an inferno... and you would be underneath, somehow getting air from above? If it's flooding, well, an underground bunker doesn't seem reasonable, and if it's hurricanes, then again, fortifying the actual house seems easier. It all depends on how many you plan to be in the bunker, for how long, with what amenities, and what you expect to see when you come out.
I come from a country where bunkers can fit most of the entire population, a legacy from more warlike times. These days, we've come to understand that they're pretty useless for almost everything, especially when nuclear wars are so damnably improbable compared to the 70s.
It all just sounds very... bunker romanticism.
TheRealBunkerJohn@reddit
I'm not speaking to using it as a bomb shelter- I agree that the likelihood of that is near zero, unless you're near a major city.
In the U.S, there's a MASSIVE range of weather. Severe storms, tornadoes- and if sealed, Wildfires would be extremely effective.
I'd argue nuclear war isn't nearly as unlikely as people want to think, not even close. The other thing is that bunkers don't cost millions. You can get them for under 30K nowadays.
Is there a bit of romanticism among the prepper community and myself regarding bunkers? Sure. But the real-world applications make it a solid option if you have the money. Personally, if I had the means? I'd have bought one yesterday- because I don't like how things are tracking in regards to global conflicts.
Acrobatic_Try_429@reddit
I am going to recommend spending some time on https://tacda.org/?srsltid=AfmBOoqyL_HAcAUlz0KQwbCv4UVgeREInR3F9CnhQSRhjMGqTK--ZIHR
This should help you decide what you want in a shelter . It is always better to know what you want when talking to a builder . They will be talking basic plus options .
J701PR4@reddit (OP)
Thank you
Jilaire@reddit
Hey! I live in Arizona and I will say that digging here is expensive. We have clay in almost all areas and it is costly to go through, that's why pools aren't very deep in most areas (used to be cheap to dig, stopped being cheap in the early 2000s, so yes you can find deep pools in old homes but most new pools are about 5ft deep), and true basements are few and far between.
20 years ago I worked for a pool company and their go to was anything past 6 foot deep was going to cost $10k plus.
I don't know if Colorado has the same issue.
J701PR4@reddit (OP)
Thanks for that. That kind of sucks.
TheRealBunkerJohn@reddit
Atlas Survival Shelters is the biggest and most well-known, but it's not without its flaws in regards to the company/drama.
Utah Shelter Systems is another one. No personal experience with it- but I know the individuals who run it are pretty dang knowledgeable.
lustforrust@reddit
A rather niche alternative is mine refuge chambers, used underground to keep miners safe during emergencies. There's many types and sizes but most are steel boxes that can fit on a standard semi truck. Typical features include blast and fire protection ratings, oxygen supply system and air scrubber, power supplies, and environmental monitoring inside and out. They are basically a lifeboat with the life support systems of a spacecraft.
DerthOFdata@reddit
The ultra MAGA stuff or his feud with Rising S Bunkers?
TheRealBunkerJohn@reddit
I haven't seen screenshots of that stuff specifically-but I do know about the Rising S drama. That said, Rising S did go out of business.
DerthOFdata@reddit
What were you referencing then?
TheRealBunkerJohn@reddit
Some social media screenshots (coupled with a few reviews,) not painting the owner in the best light. I'm not going to go into specifics, because I can't 100% confirm it. But it was enough to make me pause.
DerthOFdata@reddit
No need to edit. The owner's personality is the most off putting part of that company.
J701PR4@reddit (OP)
Thanks, this looks like a good one to check out.
TheRealBunkerJohn@reddit
Most welcome.
Eziekel13@reddit
When you talk with a bunker company, there is a question that gets overlooked a lot…
What are you going to do with all the poop?
Average person poops, 0.25 to 1 pound per day… 2 people in a bunker for week 3.5 to 14 pounds per week…not mentioning grey water…
Most solutions, add vulnerability and complexity to any bunker…increased ventilation, filtration, possible contamination, decreased space, etc
Pando5280@reddit
Know a guy who built a studio apartment in his detached garage. Had an incinerator toilet that passed inspection with the city. Zero water involved and it turns everything in the bowl into fine ash so its even more hygienic than a traditional toilet.
blacksmithMael@reddit
We’ve got a loo in our cellar, which is about the depth of a bunker. Our digester and treatment plant are downhill, lower in the valley.
Water is from an artesian well, so we flush it, same as upstairs.
bellj1210@reddit
an actual solution- but not something most people have without really putting in the effort to figure out.
I am on city sewer, so almost no way to solve it for me
blacksmithMael@reddit
Lucky geography helps too, no need for pumps and thinking about what happens if they fail.
69stangrestomod@reddit
My dad started to pencil out burying 2-3 shipping containers…but he abandoned it pretty quickly. He also wanted a shooting range underground root though, so maybe not as pragmatic as your idea 😂
DusTeaCat@reddit
Did it have a pool and bowling alley too
Minute-Of-Angle@reddit
Maybe the shooting range can double as the bowling alley.
DusTeaCat@reddit
That’s good thinking
Wooden-Sprinkles7901@reddit
The biggest issue I see with these companies is that unless you have every worker sign a N.D.A its not really secure. It would be a shame to spend all that money and then have some punks who helped with the construction come raid your place lol.
maimauw867@reddit
You only have maybe a 10 minute warning in case of a nuclear attack? After that travelling will be very difficult. So is it a problem of people know the location? They will no be able to reach you.
Wooden-Sprinkles7901@reddit
Ok and afterwards? Before?
maimauw867@reddit
Before might be a problem, but normally these things are not announced. After two weeks most radiation will be gone. You probably have had time to prepare for this, and maybe extra people might be helpful for rebuilding community
mystery-pirate@reddit
maybe if you build a shelter and then SHTF next month but most of these guys can't remember what they had for lunch yesterday. Two or three years and a hundred jobs later, they aren't going to remember a cellar.
Eziekel13@reddit
Guess they will have to get out of state or preferably out of country contractors…
The Swiss make a lot of bunkers due to their government mandate to have bunker space for all citizens…
Wooden-Sprinkles7901@reddit
They should call up Guss Fring's guys from Germany lol
Femveratu@reddit
Gotta get Mike to manage it tho
newearthdiscoveries@reddit
Wherever you decide to go, make sure you have water!
No_Character_5315@reddit
I guess your first question would be what do want the bunker for ? If it's just a bunker with no air filtration as a example might not need a bunker company if they can build it off engineering plans a local contractor might be sufficient.
J701PR4@reddit (OP)
I’m thinking short-term use, maybe 1-2 weeks max.
No_Character_5315@reddit
Probably better to spend money fortifying your existing home then maybe add a safe room of some sorts ? Unless you need to be underground because of natural disaster type event common in your area like a tornado.
J701PR4@reddit (OP)
We’ll be hiring an architect for the home. Do you have any good sources for home fortification that we could present to him?
smsff2@reddit
Nuclear fallout is one possibility
Grateful_Red1086@reddit
Just get a basement ....you dont want to "live" in a buried shipping container. You risk way more with a bunker and have to build in separate utilities. The risk of unnoticed water egress with a shitty ability to drain said water away. Look in to an earth berm-ed house or just a reinforced basement with a "bunker area" I bet it costs the same and or is cheaper Atlas Survival shelters are dumb joke you will be stuck in a fart can/co2 trap inside a few weeks.
androgenoide@reddit
You don't have to anticipate an apocalypse to have a storm cellar. A well designed home should have some sort of root storage/storm shelter /basement. It's easy enough to add a secure door and maybe a small living space.
deport_racists_next@reddit
LOL
If this is how you find a contractor for a bunker, you would be better off just looking for ground zero and waiting.
Seems like you alls survival instincts are running about negative
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PaulBunyanisfromMI@reddit
I have very little personal knowledge of this subject, but I see the company “Atlas” written about frequently on this sub. I believe they have a good reputation.
my11c3nts@reddit
Unfortunately, I personally, have no idea, my preps are more of a mobile and sustainment of what I already have.
I wish you the best of luck, and i'm gonna bookmark this to see if anyone else has any other ideas and what they think