‘The face of Hamas’: Israel confirms terror group’s spokesman Abu Obeida killed
Posted by BabylonianWeeb@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 666 comments
Leshawkcomics@reddit
Okay, but what reason is there to do that?
This is just the messenger, not some descision maker.
If anything that would make you look worse cause you no longer have someone to point at and say “Hamas wants to kill us all, they just said so on live tv”
Instead they’re quiet cause you killed their mouthpiece, while your army, government, and leadership is all over the news for killing so many people you make Hamas look like a harmless joke in comparison.
What is the gambit here?
ebekulak@reddit
> Okay, but what reason is there to do that?
Because Israel is a terrorist entity. The thing they fear/hate the most is the truth, and the thing they desire most above else is having full control over the narrative of the genocide they are committing.
Check_Me_Out-Boss@reddit
Are there supposed to be members of Hamas that are off limits?
ThatDM@reddit
Hamas is technically the government of Gaza and runs both civil and military operations, the civil government officials are "supposed" to be off limits according to the rules of war. Israel has been killing civil government workers since early on in the "war" though.
flaamed@reddit
Incorrect, even the “civil” government are members of a terrorist group and are valid targets
TokyoMegatronics@reddit
Yeah those pesky checks notes civil service receptionists really are the scum of the earth.
But er, get better propaganda dude. This shit is getting so old and worn out it’s unreal.
flaamed@reddit
It’s very easy to not join a terrorist group
I’m sorry, but you’re a bad fit for western society
JustinTime4763@reddit
Tell that to Nelson Mandela. The right of a colonized people to resist their occupation is enshrined in international law. All a "terrorist group" is, is a organization that opposes the interests of Western hegemony, the interests of Wall Street.
860v2@reddit
Nelson Mandela didn’t target civilians. Bad comparison.
Sad-Broccoli@reddit
And yet he was still designated a terrorist..... weird
860v2@reddit
So there’s a difference. Thanks for proving my point.
Sad-Broccoli@reddit
What? No. The point is that even people who don't target civilians get labeled terrorists. The label is meaningless.
860v2@reddit
The label is only meaningless to terrorist supporters and sympathizers.
The comparison doesn’t work because there’s obvious differences between Mandela and Hamas.
JustinTime4763@reddit
Nelson Mandela didn't target civilians, rather they targeted legitimate military targets. It's actually a great comparison.
https://omalley.nelsonmandela.org/index.php/site/q/03lv02424/04lv02730/05lv02918/06lv02938.htm
860v2@reddit
Hamas does not target military targets. Ex: October 7th.
It’s a bad comparison.
JustinTime4763@reddit
I don't understand. On October 7th, Hamas targeted numerous military bases and outposts as well as soldiers in border areas. Just because Israel fired on their own civilians killing large numbers of them and Hamas killed some too amid the chaos, doesn't mean they do not target military targets. Israel kills far more civilians intentionally, so why do you not see Israel as terrorist?
860v2@reddit
Hamas is on video targeting Israeli civilians in their homes. Not to mention that they killed 300+ in and around the music festival, again, on video. Not to mention that their rocket attacks involved randomly firing unguided rockets into Israel.
You’re just parroting Hamas propaganda.
Sad-Broccoli@reddit
Israel is on video tank shelling Israeli homes. There are Israeli military officials admitting to ordering tank fire on the homes knowing there were civilians inside. There are Israeli officials confirming the use of the Hannibal Directive. There are Israeli civilians who witnessed the IDF shooting at civilians.
IDF carried out Hannibal Directive, new 'Sword of Damocles' operation on October 7
IDF Tank Officer Who Shelled Kibbutz House on Oct. 7 Says 'I Had No Choice'
IDF officer recounts ordering tank fire on Be’eri home during hostage standoff on Oct. 7
Efrat Katz likely killed by IAF helicopter fire during Oct. 7 abduction attempt — probe
IDF Ordered Hannibal Directive on October 7 to Prevent Hamas Taking Soldiers Captive
Hannibal Directive: Exclusive tapes reveal details of IDF's Black Friday
860v2@reddit
That’s a cool deflection but the claim was that the IDF killed “large numbers” of Israeli civilians and that Hamas just “killed some too”.
The Hamas propaganda isn’t going to work. you’ll only continue to lose just as you’ve been doing for the past 3 years.
Sad-Broccoli@reddit
They admitted to using the Hannibal Directive and were instructed to kill anything that moved but sure dude
860v2@reddit
That wasn’t the claim. Stop trying to deflect and change the subject.
JustinTime4763@reddit
You are probably thinking of videos showing the IOF massacring their own civilians due to the Hannibal directive.
860v2@reddit
No, definitely the Hamas videos. There are no videos of what you’re talking about.
Have fun losing
namikazeiyfe@reddit
Yeah resistance is your right, but that doesn't mean you should murder a 1000+ innocent civilians, kidnap a couple hundred more and lob rockets into civilian areas, all just because you're "oppressed" and expect to not get a response for that.
cesaroncalves@reddit
You're talking about Israel right?
Cause in no occasion did Hamas did that.
HalfLeper@reddit
Interesting that you should say that… 🤔
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
Don’t do that. Self-reflection isn’t a big thing in Zionist circles. You may cause them to have an existential crisis and realise they are a complete hypocrite.
JustinTime4763@reddit
I agree, Israel needs to cease all of those actions immediately.
HalfLeper@reddit
That’s not the definition of a terrorist group. If you’re trying to say that that’s the criteria used to classify them as such in practice (which I think is what you’re getting at?) then say that, but that’s very far from “what a terrorist group is.”
Sad-Broccoli@reddit
If you want to follow the the textbook definition of "terrorist group", then that would have to include the US and Israel.
"For the purpose of the Order, “terrorism” is defined to be an activity that (1) involves a violent act or an act dangerous to human life, property, or infrastructure; and (2) appears to be intended to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, kidnapping, or hostage-taking."
https://www.state.gov/executive-order-13224#:~:text=For%20the%20purpose%20of%20the,kidnapping%2C%20or%20hostage%2Dtaking.
Caffeywasright@reddit
There is something extremely ironic about accusing a people indigenous to the area of “colonising it” especially since the only reason they left was because of the countless atrocities, genocide and perpetuation of an apartheid like society forced upon them.
HalfLeper@reddit
It’s more about the systematic brutality against, and displaced of, views of, and approach to the indigenous population than the identity of the perpetrators.
Caffeywasright@reddit
No for them it’s more about fitting them into a box of “colonisers”. It has fuck all to do with violence. Nobody cares about violence. Look at Africa. Nobody cares. Nobody cares about the systemic destruction of the yuighurs by the Chinese. Nobody cares about the starvation and civil war that is currently happened multiple places a stones throw from Israel.
Otherwise what would even be the need for this propaganda? Why even call them colonisers? Israel is as far from the western concept of colonisation you can get.
HalfLeper@reddit
While I can’t argue with your characterization of “them”—which may well be an accurate assessment—but as to your other point, with the exception that Jews claim indigeneity, they otherwise exemplify the Western concept of colonialism, in both their methods and mindset. It was a fundamental part of its generating theory. People throughout the comments have already listed how, so I won’t go through the trouble of reproducing in my comment what’s already there, but it’s quite clear that the countries founders viewed themselves as colonizers “bringing the light of civilization to the savage barbarians.”
Caffeywasright@reddit
More nonsense. No the Jews have duck all to do with western colonialism. That’s the entire point I am making an any reasonable person would agree. The Jewish people aren’t looking for a second home to values from. They are looking to settle in their ancestral home to built a state. They are not a foreign power. They are indigenous to the land.
You keep calling things “Zionism” and you clearly no fuck all about it other than what you gathered from brain dead TikTok’s made by the professional ignorants. Zionism was a movement to RETURN to their ancestral homeland. You can call that unfair, you can call it unjust you can call it a lot of things. What you can’t call it if you want to have a shred of non-stupidity is colonialism. Colonialism was never about returning it was about exploiting the natives and their land.
JustinTime4763@reddit
Right, so if my ancestors 500 years ago owned land in Germany, does that mean I can go there and start kicking people out of their homes and ethnically cleansing Germans?
So no, indigineity is not being able to say "maybe one of my ancestors lived somewhere here at something".
If Israel really was a decolonial project (even though this still wouldn't justify ethnic cleansing), then they would check the ancestry of people who immigrate! However, under the Law of Return, anyone with Jewish ancestry or who converts to Judaism can go! All the myth of "Decolonization of Palestine" is, is a justification for the colonization and cleansing of Palestinians.
Caffeywasright@reddit
If the German government gave you a territory in Germany because you were indigenous yo the area and their people had been responsible for driving your people out with genocide.
And the response of the people living in the area would was to genocide your people all over again I would have zero sympathy for you.
Regardless of what you think of Israel calling them “coloniser” is beyond fucking stupid and puts you in the TikTok buzzword tarto category.
JustinTime4763@reddit
Israel doesn't exist. "Israelis" are settler colonizers. The founders of zionism were very proud of that fact.
Caffeywasright@reddit
No Israel doesn’t exist. Except it does exist lol. And has existed. The kingdom of Israel is like 2000 years old.
robiinator@reddit
I better do a genetic test and brutalize whoever my resulting ancestors turn out to be. Seems like a valid way to behave?
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
No one was colonized. Arabs fought a war and lost, and then did it again, and again. This resulted in territory loss. By your definition everything israel does and will ever do is justified as Muslims were massacring jews before any jewish paramilitaries were formed. And i don't mean "zionists" that bought land and the arabs were salty about it. I mean jews that had lived there for generation.
But they got whipped into an anti semitic frenzy by an actual fucking Nazi collaborator and did things like the hebron massacre.
JustinTime4763@reddit
"The undertaking will be made great and promising by the granting of colonial rights. This is the tremendous attraction for the outlawed, enfeebled, and unfortunate Jewish people." - Theodor Herzl, "Father of Modern Political Zionism", in his diary
"You are being invited to help make history. That cannot frighten you, nor will you laugh at it. It is not in your accustomed line; it doesn't involve Africa, but a piece of Asia Minor, not Englishmen, but Jews. But had this been on your path, you would have done it yourself by now. How, then, do I happen turn to you, since this is an out-of-the-way matter for you? How indeed? Because it is something colonial." - Theodor Herzl, talking to Cecil Rhodes, Prime Minister of the Cape Colony
"We should there [in Palestine] form a portion of a rampart of Europe against Asia, an outpost of civilization as opposed to barbarism. We should as a neutral State remain in contact with all Europe, which would have to guarantee our existence." - Theodor Herzl, in "The Jewish State"
"It is utterly impossible to obtain the voluntary consent of the Palestine Arabs for converting Palestine from an Arab country into a country with Jewish majority. My readers have a general idea of the history of colonisation in other countries. I suggest that they consider all the precedents with which they are acquainted, and see whether there is one solitary instance of any colonisation being carried on with the consent of the native population. There is no such precedent. The native populations, civilised or uncivilised, have always stubbornly resisted the colonists, irrespective of whether they were civilised or savage." - Ze'ev Jabotinsky, founder of Irgun, in "The Iron Wall"
"[The] iron law of every colonizing movement, a law which knows of no exceptions, a law which existed in all times and under all circumstances. If you wish to colonize a land in which people are already living, you must provide a garrison on your behalf. Or else, give up your colonization, for without an armed force which will render physically impossible any attempts to destroy or prevent this colonization, colonization is impossible, not 'difficult', not 'dangerous' but IMPOSSIBLE!...Zionism is a colonizing adventure and therefore it stands or falls by the question of armed force. It is important to build, it is important to speak Hebrew, but, unfortunately, it is even more important to be able to shoot – or else I am through with playing at colonization." - Ze'ev Jabotinsky, in "The Iron Law"
"What we wanted was a British Protectorate. Jews all over the world trusted England. They knew that law and order would be established by British rule, and that under it, Jewish colonizing activities and cultural development would not be interfered with. We could therefore look forward to a time when we would be strong enough to claim a measure of self-government." - Chaim Weizmann, President of Israel (1949-1952)
"We can reasonably say that should Palestine fall within the British sphere of influence, and should Britain encourage a Jewish settlement there, as a British dependency, we could have in 20 to 30 years a million Jews out there, perhaps more; they would develop the country, bring back civilization to it, and form a very effective guard for the Suez Canal." - Chaim Weizmann in "Trial and Error"
"[I am] satisfied with part of the country, but on the basis of the assumption that after we build up a strong force following the establishment of the state, we will abolish the partition of the country and we will expand to the whole Land of Israel." - David Ben-Gurion, Prime Minister of Israel (1948-1953, 1955-1963), in a 1938 speech to the Zionist Executive
"After the formation of a large army in the wake of the establishment of the state, we will abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine." - David Ben-Gurion, in a speech to the Zionist Executive
"The acceptance of partition does not commit us to renounce Transjordan: one does not demand from anybody to give up his vision. We shall accept a state in the boundaries fixed today, but the boundaries of Zionist aspirations are the concern of the Jewish people and no external factor will be able to limit them." - David Ben-Gurion in a 1937 speech
"If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?" - David Ben-Gurion
"Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves … politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves… The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country." - David Ben-Gurion in a 1938 speech
"If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel." - David Ben-Gurion
"It’s not a matter of maintaining the status quo. We have to create a dynamic state, oriented towards expansion." - David Ben-Gurion
"Let us not cast the blame on the murderers today. Why should we declare their burning hatred for us? For eight years, they have been sitting in the refugee camps in Gaza, and before their eyes we have been transforming the lands and the villages, where they and their fathers dwelt into our estate." - Moshe Dayan, Chief of Staff of the IDF (1953-1958) and Israeli Defense Minister (1967-1974), in a eulogy for murdered settler Ro'i Rothberg
"I hope they all go. If we could achieve the departure of three hundred thousand without pressure, that would be a great blessing!" - Moshe Dayan, Chief of Staff of the IDF (1953-1958) and Israeli Defense Minister (1967-1974), talking about the Naksa
"We will turn Gaza into an island of ruins." - Benjamin Netanyahu, Prime Minister
"It is an entire nation that is responsible. It is not true this rhetoric about civilians not being aware, not involved. It’s absolutely not true." - Isaac Herzog, President
"Gaza will not return to what it was before. We will eliminate everything." - Yoav Gallant, Defense Minister
"Hamas has turned into ISIS, and the residents of Gaza, instead of being appalled, are celebrating. Human animals must be treated as such. There will be no electricity and no water, there will only be destruction. You wanted hell, you will get hell." - Ghassan Alian, Major General and Head of COGAT
"We are dropping hundreds of tons of bombs on Gaza. The focus is on destruction, not accuracy." - Daniel Hagari, IDF Spokesman
860v2@reddit
ChatGPT ass response. 😂
robiinator@reddit
You again? Is being a Nazi online your full-time employment?
860v2@reddit
Great argument.
JustinTime4763@reddit
Is ChatGPT khamas now too? Facts have always been khamas or anti-Semitic, but I didn't know LLMs could be too.
robiinator@reddit
The dude you're replying to is a Nazi chatbot. There's no use in talking to them.
860v2@reddit
Imagine being so mad that you just made random shit up. Couldn’t be me.
JustinTime4763@reddit
Thanks for telling me
860v2@reddit
Copy/pasting ChatGPT output isn’t an argument.
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
Strange you have to result to quotes and not actual events before arabs murdered innocents. Why do you have a hard on for dead jews?
Brief_Fly6950@reddit
Hebron massacre was a direct reaction to Zionist colonization, according to Zionist newspapers at the time.
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
So then palestinians are fair targets because of hamas? Thats the same logic. Also cite your source.
Brief_Fly6950@reddit
I didn’t say they were fair targets. The attack wasn’t based on an anti-semitic motive though. From Contemporary Hebrew press, it appears that the rioters targeted the Zionist community for their massacre, as ~4/5 of the victims were Ashkenazi Jews. That’s mentioned here.
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
The massacre formed part of the 1929 Palestine riots, in which a total of 133 Jews and 110 Arabs were killed, most of the latter by British security forces,^([5]) and brought the centuries-old Jewish presence in Hebron to an end.
Centuries old Jews in Hebron were no zionist. Arabs targeted and murdered jews for what zionists did, if your are justifying that every man woman and child in gaza would be a fair target too.
Brief_Fly6950@reddit
That doesn’t contradict with anything I said, and no I didn’t say they were fair targets. The British committee that investigated the 1929 riots concluded that the reason for them was the Zionist colonization.
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
LOL arabs murdering indigenous jews because of other people doing things is absolutely the same as Israel killing palestinians because of hamas.
TokyoMegatronics@reddit
careful, they'll be saying it was right that he was imprisoned next. or the the British should have bombed Gandhi or that the US should have briefcase bombed Martin Luthor King.
TokyoMegatronics@reddit
Oh no are you gonna give the IDF my address so they can bomb me?
flaamed@reddit
Such a Reddit reply lmfao
JustinTime4763@reddit
Tell that to Nelson Mandela. The right of a colonized people to resist their occupation is enshrined in international law. All a "terrorist group" is, is a organization that opposes the interests of Western hegemony, the interests of Wall Street.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
You’re missing the big picture. It’s not the receptionists. It’s the teachers and doctors and ambulance drivers and lecturers and basically anyone Palestinian with a degree. That’s who Israel specifically wants to kill first.
ZillesBotoxButtocks@reddit
Same logic applies to Israelis then.
QuigleyPondOver@reddit
I don’t think Hamas ever carefully checked IDs before launching rockets, bud.
cesaroncalves@reddit
They do send them to military targets, they just aren't accurate, Israel really should not put a city around a military target.
QuigleyPondOver@reddit
Would you consider sending unguided rockets aimed at local cities to be responsible war fighting?
cesaroncalves@reddit
No, but still more responsible than sending guided ones against civilians.
QuigleyPondOver@reddit
You would seriously prefer Israel to start using unguided collateral rocket barrages vs single targeted strikes? Seriously?
You are bending over so hard to present Hamas as ‘ethical murderers’ it is quite funny.
cesaroncalves@reddit
They already do, more than 60% of bombs in Gaza were "dumb" bombs.
The very fact you don't even know this is appalling.
You might think so, but then again you asked me If I thought it was responsible, and I did answer no. But memory or good arguments are not really your strong suit it looks like.
This argument is useless, fell free to retreat in cowardice, I wont respond to you anymore.
ZillesBotoxButtocks@reddit
Yes, unlike Israel "the camera is KhaghhalkggakHamas", of course.
QuigleyPondOver@reddit
So you admit that Hamas definitely don’t check if their targets are military or civilian, but you think that is ok for them to do?
ZillesBotoxButtocks@reddit
If it's OK for Israel, it's OK for gkhkhkgkhkhHkhkhkhKHamas.
QuigleyPondOver@reddit
So then why are you for one and against the other?
ZillesBotoxButtocks@reddit
One has been committing a genocide for nearly 80 years. The other is ghghhghghhaghahghaHamas. Not that I'm "for" ghhagkahgkahgHamas for that matter. Both are bad, Israel is worse by orders of magnitude.
WallyWestJest@reddit
\^ and yet this point continually falls on deaf ears. if we're going to recognize "terrorism," as evil, despicable and horrible acts, then we need to recognize ALL instances of "terrorism" perpetuated by EVERBODY past and present as unacceptable. otherwise its playing favorites based on vested interests and the extent to which we're willing to recognize other peoples' humanity.
It really shouldnt be a surprise to me at this point, but i'm still somehow always taken aback by the absolute gall of these people. whenever its pointed out that they abysmal and horrific shit (more often than not at a much greater scale, frequency, and unimaginable levels of death and destruction) they suddenly turn stupid, as if morality just shouldnt apply to them the same way they apply it to everyone else.
Wompish66@reddit
We declare they are terrorists so we can do what we want.
flaamed@reddit
I think it’s more to do with the suicide bombings and plane hijackings
Sorry about your friends btw 😂
Wompish66@reddit
You clearly don't understand what terrorism means.
flaamed@reddit
That’s ironic
Wompish66@reddit
You also don't seem to know the meaning of irony. V
flaamed@reddit
I guess if you’re doing that thing where you guys just make up new definitions for words sure
Doesn’t change the fact that you’re simping for terrorists
Wompish66@reddit
Or you could just not be a moron and learn the actual meaning of words.
But whatever floats your USS Liberty.
flaamed@reddit
😂
That was an easy win for me
Bye troll
Wompish66@reddit
I'm embarrassed on your behalf.
Good luck. You'll need it.
flaamed@reddit
Oh you’re still here 😂
I thought you’d be mourning your buddies by now
Wompish66@reddit
Okay, you're obviously a child so I'll leave it here.
flaamed@reddit
Wow you came back again lol
Can you stop being obsessed with me please, I’m not a terrorist supporter like you
robiinator@reddit
You're the Israel supporter here
flaamed@reddit
Thank you!
So you should know that makes me anti terrorist
robiinator@reddit
Exploding pagers and executing children, aid workers and journalists.
Wompish66@reddit
He says responding within seconds every time.
flaamed@reddit
This is getting weird now
steve-o1234@reddit
Ya. You are absolutely correct. Man these defences of Hamas and the attempt to try to frame them as just another legitimate is absolutely mind boggling. It unbelievable how much it discredits the actual pro Palestinian cause. Through the looking glass completely.
Ala117@reddit
Well the defences of israel and the attempt to try to frame them are just an "only democracy in the middle east with the most moral army in the world" is also absolutely mind boggling if not more.
CharmCityKid09@reddit
So are their frankly disgusting attempts to equate them to Mandela, Gandhi and the US civil rights movement. As if the totality of everything is even remotely comparable.
redelastic@reddit
So should every Israeli government worker in that case.
flaamed@reddit
lol at the flair
Seems like you don’t know what makes a terrorist group
redelastic@reddit
Israel is a terrorist state. Why shouldn't every Israeli government worker be a valid target?
HalfLeper@reddit
Valid according to what? Laws? Policy? Morality? Are there laws somewhere that say this? Valid according to what? Also, I know people are often quick to cite the Geneva Convention in regards to “the rules of war,” but is Israel even a signatory?
flaamed@reddit
Law, common sense, morality, having a brain
Things like that
HalfLeper@reddit
OK, common sense and morality I can accept, because those are entirely subjective. I’ll let other people argue about that, since they already are. Can you point me to which laws this is falling under? Do you have a source?
steve-o1234@reddit
Ya. You are absolutely correct. Man these defences of Hamas and the attempt to try to frame them as just another legitimate is absolutely mind boggling. It unbelievable how much it discredits the actual pro Palestinian cause. Through the looking glass completely
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
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bakochba@reddit
They're not the internationally recognized government anymore that the Houthis are the government of Yemen
Novarupta99@reddit
That doesn't make killing their civilian ministers any more legal.
bakochba@reddit
There are no civilian members of a terrorist group
Novarupta99@reddit
A terrorist group according to who? The Arabs call Israel a terror state. That does not make every Israeli minister a valid military target using your logic. The world is more than just Israel and the West. In fact, the worst form of terror is aerial bombardment, not suicide bombings and hijackings. And who made "Shock and Awe" a doctrine?
Hamas is a functioning government, despite your own perspective. They employ clerks, lawyers, policemen, teachers, etc. Is the Minister of Agriculture a legitimate military target? Are Union Leaders and public prosecutors "terrorists"?
bakochba@reddit
According to the Palestinian Authority, the internationally recognized government of Palestine
ShrimpGold@reddit
Except Israel doesn’t recognize the PA as the government of Gaza because Israel is dividing and taking all Palestinian land and homes.
bakochba@reddit
It does recognize it. That's what the Oslo Accords are all about.
You can argue Hamas aren't terrorists all you want I guess it's just silly.
ShrimpGold@reddit
Oh, so is that why Bibi has expressly stated that the PA will never govern Gaza?
https://www.axios.com/2023/11/11/gaza-palestinian-authority-control-netanyahu-hamas-war
I never said Hamas aren’t terrorists. Israelis are terrorists too, if you use the same definitions as you do for Hamas.
Snoo66769@reddit
Notice how you say “Hamas” when saying who’s bad in Palestine and “Israelis” when saying who’s bad in Israel? That’s the dehumanisation programming coming through.
Regardless, Hamas violently took power, openly states their goal is genocide and the destruction of Israel and they steal from their own people then murder, kidnap and torture their own people for protesting them.
Trying to claim they are the same as Israel is either dishonest or ignorant.
ShrimpGold@reddit
They are the same. Sorry your team is mask off.
Snoo66769@reddit
Ah so you’re just a genocide supporting bigot. Got it.
itsamepants@reddit
So does the Taliban. Doesn't make them any less of a terrorist group.
bignutt69@reddit
so they're terrorists because they're brown, not because of how much terror and violence they inflict upon innocent civilian populations? what a fantastic definition
Amphy64@reddit
So are bloody Palestine Action apparently, they're still civilians who our police managed to arrest, not kill. Nothing about a designation as 'terrorist' means the only response is to kill, isn't Guantanamo Bay full of enough?
Novarupta99@reddit
The point is whether those civilians are liable to be killed for being a member of that organisation. And the word "terrorist" is meaningless nowadays. Can I not claim that the UK's Labour Party is a terrorist organisation because of Iraq? Why is it only the West who get to decide who the "real" terrorists are?
J0SHEY@reddit
SIMPLE question: Does Hamas follow the "rules of war"?
Sad-Broccoli@reddit
Does Israel? Ever?
J0SHEY@reddit
Google 'Roof Knocking', it literally takes seconds
Sad-Broccoli@reddit
Google "Israel bombed where it told civilians to go"
J0SHEY@reddit
Red Herring Fallacy. You said Israel never followed the rules of war & I gave you an example of them doing so
Sad-Broccoli@reddit
Wow you really got me there, congrats. Israel occasionally bombs the roofs of civilian homes 5 minutes before bombing the entire building. And if the families manage to evacuate, they still get bombed by Israel anyway.
J0SHEY@reddit
SIMPLE question: Is roof knocking better than not doing so — 'yes' or 'no'?
SirGaylordSteambath@reddit
Congratulations, being a Reddit debate nerd has led you to defending a genocide.
Keep up the good work 👍
J0SHEY@reddit
Congratulations, being a Reddit debate nerd has led you to accuse people who present facts as "defending a genocide"
Keep up the "good" work 👎🏻
SirGaylordSteambath@reddit
Oh so you’re not defending Israel? My guy, let’s call a spade a spade
J0SHEY@reddit
Go call a spade a spade yourself. SIMPLE question: Can you condemn BOTH sides — yes or no?
Hilarious you think that sarcasm can't be used in reverse 🤣
blueNgoldWarrior@reddit
This dude thinks he can justify a genocide by debate clubbing hard enough..
What a world you live in.
J0SHEY@reddit
This dude thinks that presenting facts is equivalent to justifying a genocide & debate clubbing
What a world you live in
blueNgoldWarrior@reddit
Imitation, flattery, yada yada.
Bud your comment oozing obsession with debate points to obfuscate the horrible reality is right there. You’re not fooling anyone with over half a brain.
Have fun with the half wits, pedophiles, and baby killers in the Israel support circles.
J0SHEY@reddit
Reverse that logic. Have fun with the half wits, pedophiles, and baby killers in the Hamas support circles
SirGaylordSteambath@reddit
LOL, is parroting all you do? Get some god damn hobbies 🤣
J0SHEY@reddit
Parroting is saying the EXACT same thing. Go get some god damn hobbies if you CAN'T see the difference in words used 🤣
meidan321@reddit
What a way to whitewash Hamas. No, no member of a literal terrorist group who repeatedly declares their insane intentions and actively pursues them gets a free pass. They could have a legitimate government, but what they got now is a playground of sadistic brainless terrorists
corree@reddit
Israel has been indiscriminately killing Palestinians, Hamas or not, practically since its inception
dood9123@reddit
If you bombed the home of the white house press secretary because American troops are occupying your country, that would be seen as a MASSIVE breach of the Geneva conventions and a war crime.
The civilian government spokesperson is not a military target.
If Russia were to assassinate Serhiy Serhiyovych in his home it would be a war crime.
BrownEyesGreenHair@reddit
No it wouldn’t. Any member of the enemy military apparatus is a valid target.
Especially if the press secretary repeatedly threatened death to your soldiers and civilians and encouraged people to kill them.
Novarupta99@reddit
What are you on?
Please do find me the bit from the Geneva Conventions that make someone a combatant based on incitement.
BrownEyesGreenHair@reddit
Let me ask you this - do you think Goebbels was a legitimate target? Because Abu Obeida was the Hamas’ Goebbels
Novarupta99@reddit
If you think Hamas are nazis you have very little understanding about this conflict. Why is it that Hamas' favourite adjective to describe Israel is الكيان النازي?
BrownEyesGreenHair@reddit
Wow you got me now - the Nazi clone Hamas calls us Nazis so we must be the real Nazis. Is that how your logic works?
Hamas is full Nazi, complete with secret police, Hitler Jugend and mein kampf.
Novarupta99@reddit
Who said this?
BrownEyesGreenHair@reddit
Oh, did all of Israeli society say this? Or are you just picking out one Israeli person’s statement and generalizing to all Israelis? Kinda racist no?
dood9123@reddit
You don't bomb the head of OSHA even though workers being kept safe allows smoother production of war materials
In the same way that you don't bomb a minister of propaganda even though they have knock on effects to the conflict.
Knock on effects do not make you a military target and In a world of modern weapons with the ability to target a specific person, it would be a war crime to target Goebells
BrownEyesGreenHair@reddit
Delusional
Sad-Broccoli@reddit
No, that's bullshit. Killing anyone unarmed is a war crime.
"International humanitarian law, or the law of war, prohibits any violence against individuals who are not taking part in hostilities, especially those who have surrendered or are otherwise unable to defend themselves."
https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/pt/customary-ihl/v2/rule47
Thek40@reddit
You don’t need to be armed to take an active part in combat. And Hors de combat is about combatants that can’t fight, not combatants that are unarmed.
BrownEyesGreenHair@reddit
How is this guy - who is orchestrating incitement and psychological warfare - not participating in hostilities?
It’s completely untrue that any “unarmed” person is not a target. If so, all Hamas terrorists would be illegitimate targets if they just hide their weapons.
SgtTreasureImp@reddit
No it isn't. "members of armed forces who have laid down their arms" is different than being unarmed. For example, you can legally kill an enemy mechanic working on vehicles. You can also kill enemy factory workers if they are making thing that are war related.
Call_Me_Clark@reddit
Well, if someone was at war with the United States, a city council member, an IRS agent, a traffic cop and a U.S. attorney would not be legitimate military targets.
Hamas is the government of Gaza, although many civil functions were filled by international aid agencies (presumably because then there’s separation from Hamas, protecting the workers lives somewhat). It’s complicated but Israel is still committing mass murder.
Green_Space729@reddit
Does that mean all Israeli spokespeople are fair game?
Thek40@reddit
The one that are part of the military are, like IDF Spokesperson's Unit, people that are working for the government aren’t.
Check_Me_Out-Boss@reddit
I feel like if they could be touched, they would have been.
Or does Hamas just prefer attacking civilians?
Ala117@reddit
That question is better asked about israel.
UtgaardLoki@reddit
Nope. People just want Israel to use kid gloves and balance ok one foot while fighting Hamas.
Late_Way_8810@reddit
Fr. I still remember the 2014 conflict and how people were openly demanding Israel shut off the iron dome to “make the war more even” like that isn’t an actually psychotic position
UtgaardLoki@reddit
Omg, that’s hilarious (in a Kafkaesque way).
Bonus points for a link, lol.
UtgaardLoki@reddit
AP I (1977), Article 57(2)(c):
“Effective advance warning shall be given of attacks which may affect the civilian population, unless circumstances do not permit.”
platp@reddit
The thing you call kid gloves is Geneva conventions. International agreements to prevent scum like Israel from doing whatever they want to civilians they want to murder. And they will pay for their crimes. Previously, some propagandaists for genocide was also sentenced for their crimes.
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
So killing terrorists is terrorism now? Then what the fuck is hamas?
fifthflag@reddit
Ones terrorist is another's freedom fighter and all that, critical thinking skills, you should totally try them.
genasugelan@reddit
The "freedom fighters" are also killing their own people protesting against them. Very freedom of their fighters.
fifthflag@reddit
The IDF also killed palestinians protesting, they are terrorists by the same definition. This is why terrorist is a political label not a legal one, it always changes depending on subjective factors.
genasugelan@reddit
Yeah, so? Have I said they aren't? Whataboutism. I don't support either.
fifthflag@reddit
Its not whataboutism, i said that this label doesnt have any real tangibile objective meaning. If everyone is a terrorist, nobody is.
genasugelan@reddit
Don't relativise pretty clear-cut things. They are a designated terrorist organisation by a multitude of countries and they are doing things that match the definition of terrorism. It's about as objective as it can get. If you want to call Israel/the IDF terrorists, feel free, I won't argue against it, but calling Hamas freedom fighters just romanticises them, which I think is completely wrong.
fifthflag@reddit
No, they are designated by the west and western aligned governments for political reasons, proving my point.
Most of the world doesn't consider them terrorist organization, because there is no legal basis for it, just vibes. I don't romanticize anybody, quite the opposite. I am being pragmatic.
genasugelan@reddit
Terrorism: the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
Here are some things they did: targeting civilians, suicide bombing, use of human shields, taking and murdering hostages, rapes and other sexual crimes, launching rockets at Israel.
In what alternative reality are they NOT terrorists? You aren't being pragmatic, you are showing your extreme bias. I guess it was the vibes of explosions that got them that designation alone, right?
fifthflag@reddit
So basicly every actor in every war except defensive ones is a terrorist, also Palestinians have the right to resist. Again, this is a definition, not a legal definition. What is lawful and unlawful is not up to you and me to recognize, but the international law, which doesnt define terrorism.
I think you confound what you wish to be real, with was is really legally defined. Also on top of that, palestinians have the internationally recognized right to resist against occupation, in Gaza and West Bank.
genasugelan@reddit
Killing your own protesting civilians and rapes aren't resistance, it's terrorism.
Why are you so hard-pressing on defending Hamas' actions?
fifthflag@reddit
I am literally not defending Hamas, I am saying that the label of terrorist is subjective. Now you say it is, most of the world says it isn't, do you understand?
If Hamas is illegitimate, then Israel is not at war, but israel is currently occupying and killing non military civilians, even if they are part of Hamas and fight back. If Hamas is legitimate as a government in Gaza, then it's not illegitimate violence and thus not terrorist by your own definition.
This is the problem legally speaking. Your and my opinion on this genocide might differ, but there's only 1 objective legal reality.
genasugelan@reddit
Most of the world is fucking stupid then. Claiming the things they do aren't terrorist is of the absolute peak of moral bankrupcy.
You are arguing in insane technicalities that you completely disregard reality.
I never argued about legality, but about objective reality. Legally, a country can pass a reality that the sun rises in the west, that doesn't make it real.
They are committing acts of terror (I was specifically pointing out their actions in my last and some previous comments), well documented, that makes them terrorists, end of story (I think you are intentionally not adressing the actions they committed that I mentioned because you know that can't be defended). And you are defending Hamas by rejecting the very idea that they are terrorists. It's like a paedophile being caught on camera raping kids, but the court releasess him because of a technical legal error and someone arguing they are not a paedophile, except worse because there are many more victims and it's way more wide-spread.
I'm absolutely done with Hamas supporters, every single week pro-Palestine supporters seem more and more unhiged (even if the core cause is completely justified), the takes are getting exponentially more radical, from "Hamas aren't terrorists" to "Hamas spokesperson isn't a valid military target" to "Hila Klein is a valid military target" to "Hamas hostages enjoyed being hostages" to even worse things you can dig up from other Reddit threads or Twatter replies... I thought PETA was unhinged back in the day... (this isn't directly about you, I'm just fed up about the topic in general, as I'm seeing moderate people being shamed and demonised)
I think I'll end it here. I'll give you that, you were polite and at least and didn't call me a genocide supporter or something similar, like some others might have, so I wish you nothing bad. I'm just really tired of this shit. I'm very expressive in this comment, not because I'm angry at you specifically, but it piles up.
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
The freedom fighter whose stated goals is murder all jews?
CwazyCanuck@reddit
Except it isn’t a stated goal of Hamas. You Zionists just like to push this false narrative to push your genocide.
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp
Sad-Broccoli@reddit
From the 1988 charter:
And from the 2017 revised charter:
chdjfnd@reddit
And yet the same 1988 charter also states in article 6
“The Islamic Resistance Movement is a distinguished Palestinian movement, whose allegiance is to Allah, and whose way of life is Islam. It strives to raise the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine, for under the wing of Islam followers of all religions can coexist in security and safety where their lives, possessions and rights are concerned. In the absence of Islam, strife will be rife, oppression spreads, evil prevails and schisms and wars will break out.”
So Palestine must remain an Arab Muslim land and that no religions can co exist without Islam being the majority religion (completely disregarding the centuries of anti semitism in the Middle East) because all others lead to social breakdown (a common rhetorical device used in Europe to justify anti semitism and one that Hamas use to justify their “anti zionism” in articles 22 & 28)
The article that follows this, article 7, ends with a Hadith specifically instructing muslims to kill all Jews “The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews."
Article 22 levels recycled anti semitic conspiracy theories at Zionists
“With their money, they took control of the world media, news agencies, the press, publishing houses, broadcasting stations, and others. With their money they stirred revolutions in various parts of the world with the purpose of achieving their interests and reaping the fruit therein. They were behind the French Revolution, the Communist revolution and most of the revolutions we heard and hear about, here and there. With their money they formed secret societies, such as Freemasons, Rotary Clubs, the Lions and others in different parts of the world for the purpose of sabotaging societies and achieving Zionist interests. With their money they were able to control imperialistic countries and instigate them to colonize many countries in order to enable them to exploit their resources and spread corruption there.
You may speak as much as you want about regional and world wars. They were behind World War I, when they were able to destroy the Islamic Caliphate, making financial gains and controlling resources. They obtained the Balfour Declaration, formed the League of Nations through which they could rule the world. They were behind World War II, through which they made huge financial gains by trading in armaments, and paved the way for the establishment of their state. It was they who instigated the replacement of the League of Nations with the United Nations and the Security Council to enable them to rule the world through them.”
Article 28 uses recycled anti semitic conspiracy theories against zionists by accusing them of being responsible for the drug trafficking and alcoholism that destroys moral order. Article 28 ends with “Israel, Judaism and Jews challenge Islam and the Moslem people. "May the cowards never sleep."
Article 32 accuses Zionists of using The Elders of Zion as a manual for a Jewish state
Articles 3,4,5,6,8,9,11,15,19,23,30,31 and 33 are all to do with Palestine being an Arab land with Muslims being prioritised (sounds similar to what Israel gets called an ethnostate for)
Its funny that in their updated charter they had to add an article to specify that their problem is not with Jews & that its Zionists who weaponise Judaism (most jews are zionists) without acknowledging that their founding charter was openly anti semitic and is the reason why Hamas are seen as that
Article 17 specifically denies the history of anti semitism in the Middle East; anti semitism that they themselves helped perpetuate in their first charter
Is this also the same charter that states all of Israel is Palestine and that all of Palestine is an Arab Muslim land & states that all Jewish holy sites in Jerusalem as Muslim (who have priority) or Christian?
Sad-Broccoli@reddit
Zionists and Israel have labeled themselves and their colonization project "the Jews" and "the Jewish state". Maybe they should label themselves differently if they don't want to be referred as that and inevitably associating their crimes with all Jewish people. Hamas has never indicated they have a plan to attack all Jews around the world or even expanding the conflict outside of Israel and its supporters. It has been made clear in their words and their actions that their only problem is with the group of people oppressing and inflicting violence and terror on them. It isn't their fault Israel calls 0 "the Jews" and slaps a star of David on their soldiers and tanks.
It literally does not say that lol Did you even read it before you sent it?
You're just projecting your Jewish supremacist Zionism. Zionists explicitly state that the goal is to have a majority Jewish state and this has been the goal since before Israel even existed and Palestine was majority Arab.
This is also bullshit. Antisemitism is a European thing. Jewish people lived peacefully in the middle east before Zionism.
Correct. Why is this funny or inaccurate? Israel calls their army the Jews and then when their victims refer to them as "Jews" they get to call them antisemitic lol
Most Zionists are Christians. There are more Christian Zionists than Jewish people on earth. And it's completely irrelevant if most Jews are zionists (they aren't). Most white people were pro slavery. That doesn't make slavery justified and it doesn't make you anti white to criticize it.
chdjfnd@reddit
It’s almost like it’s a majority Jewish state, built for all Jews, off of a Jewish nationalist ideology. It exists for all Jews that doesn’t mean it represents every political view of every Jew in the world and it has never claimed to do so
You’ve gone from, their charter isn’t anti semitic to, well it contains anti semitic language but when their charter specifically uses the word Jew, they don’t actually mean Jew and its Israels fault that Hamas wrote their charter in the way they did
The article literally argues that without Islam, there is no functional society. If Palestine is to exist as a functional society, it must stay under Islam. This disregards centuries of anti semitism and implies that it cannot function under Christianity, Judaism or atheism. This would require a muslim majority to uphold. This is literally backed up by article 5 that states that Islam is the official state religion and the Quran the constitution and this is reaffirmed in article 8 & 9 as well as article 11 which states Palestine is a sacred waqf for all muslims for all time. no mention of Christians or Jews. Articles 19, 30 and 33 all outline specific roles for Muslims in the building of a Muslim Palestine
Are you arguing that Hamas doesn’t want a Palestinian state to be an Arab muslim majority state?
“Anti semitism is a european thing” so you’re arguing that Hamas and the Arab world are not anti semitic while denying anti semitism in the Middle East?
“Jewish people lived in peace in the Middle East” can you explain why they were forced to live as Dhimmis under Muslim rule as they did under the Ottomans for hundreds of years? Was the 1834 Safed looting “ which saw a month long attack on Jewish communities “living peacefully”?
Its funny because they’re arguing that they aren’t anti semitic even though they put out a charter that specifically names Jews as an enemy and also accuses “zionists” of starting WW1, WW2, the UN, drug trafficking and alcoholism which just so happen to be long standing anti semitic conspiracy theories as well. Did Hamas not know that or did Israel make them do it?
“It’s irrelevant if most Jews are zionists (they aren’t”)
if it’s irrelevant, why do you need to lie that they aren’t? (A majority of Jews do support Israel existing as a Jewish majority state, that makes them Zionists)
Zionism and slavery aren’t comparable. Criticism of Israel isn’t anti semitic, the rhetoric Hamas used in its founding charter, is anti semitic
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
why do you excuse genocide?
CwazyCanuck@reddit
Context.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gharqad#Sunni_interpretation
Not a stated goal. It’s the equivalent of Netanyahu likening Palestinians to Amalekites.
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
and what purpose does such a quote serve in a charter in a section that discusses fighting jews? let alone a "moderate" interpretation of the quote absolutely does not apply to fundamental terrorists. Why the fuck can you people never operate in good faith?
Away_team42@reddit
God, they’re literally trying to gaslight us at every opportunity.
fifthflag@reddit
Nobody said they want to murder all Jews, stop overdramatizing. It's been 2 years, find better Hasbara.
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
Hamas literally calls to kill any jew you find in their founding charter that got them elected
fifthflag@reddit
Jew or zionist or Israeli? Also any source on that chief?
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
Moreover, if the links have been distant from each other and if obstacles, placed by those who are the lackeys of Zionism in the way of the fighters obstructed the continuation of the struggle, the Islamic Resistance Movement aspires to the realisation of Allah's promise, no matter how long that should take. The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said: "The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Moslem).
fifthflag@reddit
Did you read it? Jews are mentioned 12 times. The only "kill" is from a quote by Mohamad, not their actual stance. Based on this, you would be surprised how many Christian texts also have these kinds of wording, I doubt you would call all christian terrorists.
So yeah, hasbara works if you don't have reading comprehension or if you are mentally challenged.
carlosfeder@reddit
This is one of the most “Redditor” comments i have ever read. “Actuahly, the Islamic fundamentalists who have killed hundreds of thousands of “infidels” in Yemen, Syria, Israel, Iran and Iraq aren’t antisemitic, that’s a very important distinction”
fifthflag@reddit
Thats not what I said, they are fundamentalists, thats doesnt make them terrorists tho.
carlosfeder@reddit
They’re both things, they’re also openly slavers who have kidnapped thousands and killed +400000 directly or indirectly
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
I mean yes Christianity is a dangerous and foul thing. But the small county church is not the same as the evangelicals trying to usher in the end times with violence in the middle east.
They only mention killing jews as the prophet demanded on the context of war against israel. I'm sure im reading to much into it.
Sad-Broccoli@reddit
That is literally the goal of christian zionists and why they are the biggest supporters of Israel. (They want the Jewish people in Israel so the rapture happens)
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
great you agree both islamist and christian should be distrusted
deSuspect@reddit
Yeah, but when your "freedom fighters" killed more children in hospitals then "terrorists" it starts to look a bit different...
Cyph0n@reddit
Killing targets in their homes along with their families is terrorism, yes.
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
So unless they are killed in an openfield while saturn is in retrograde and the moon is at half zenith its terrorism? Then why the fuck do you defend hamas?
Cyph0n@reddit
By that same token, killing Israeli soldiers with their families on Oct 7 was justified, correct?
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
Soldier wear uniforms and present on the field of battle. Hamas went door to door massacring jews indiscriminately. They dont hide behind civilians while hamas does
Sad-Broccoli@reddit
Yeah it's almost like Hamas isn't an army.
Also Israel quite literally does hide behind civilians.
['I Have Been Paying 12,000 Shekels a Month to Protect the Kirya Military Base in Tel Aviv'](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2025-06-26/ty-article-magazine/.premium/i-have-been-paying-12-000-shekels-a-month-to-protect-the-kirya-military-base-in-tel-aviv/00000197-a150-dea6-af97-f9ddf5c90000)
>In a 2021 interview given by then Defense Ministry Director General Amir Eshel, he said, "There is no reason for us to be in Tel Aviv, to occupy one of the most expensive urban areas in the country, as well as putting the rapidly developing civilian population at risk. I will act as best I can to have the defense establishment vacate the Kirya compound. We need to get out of Tel Aviv ASAP."
[A Look Inside Israel’s ‘Fortress of Zion’ Military Command Beneath Tel Aviv](https://archive.ph/aNR1m)
["Every accusation a confession: Israel and the double lie of 'human shields'"](https://mondoweiss.net/2024/09/every-accusation-a-confession-israel-and-the-double-lie-of-human-shields/)
[Palestinian children tortured, used as shields by Israel: U.N.](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-palestinian-israel-children-idUSBRE95J0FR20130620/)
[IDF used Palestinians as human shields 1,200 occasions in last five years, say Israeli defence officials](https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/israel-gaza-idf-used-palestinians-as-human-shields-1200-occasions-in-last-five-years-say-israeli-defence-officials/30483468.html)
["How Israel's Army Uses Palestinians as Human Shields in Gaza"](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/14/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-military-human-shields.html)
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
why was your last post removed by reddit?
Sad-Broccoli@reddit
[ Removed by Reddit ]
Cyph0n@reddit
Oh, so being at home with your family is now called “hiding”? Interesting.
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
are you denying hamas hides within civilian infrastructure
Cyph0n@reddit
Yes.
Are you arguing that military targets can be massacred at home with their families? Yes or no answer please.
860v2@reddit
Then you’re just wrong. They openly call for and do it.
Cyph0n@reddit
Well, I do know for a fact that you cucks embed military and intelligence buildings in civilian neighborhoods.
860v2@reddit
False. Even if true, Hamas doesn’t target those. They still go after civilians.
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
Your not a serious person worth engaging with if your going to deny hamas hides in civilian infrastructure
Blarg_III@reddit
As a different person, putting aside the matter of hamas hiding in civilian infrastructure entirely, is it acceptable to attack military targets inside their own homes alongside their families?
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
No. You dont get to change the context of the situation and try and redefine it to make israel in the wrong. Get the fuck out of here with this bad faith bull shit.
Blarg_III@reddit
You refuse to answer the question because you know that it will highlight your hypocrisy.
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
Refusing to engage in a bad fait total reframing of the situation isn't hypocrisy
Cyph0n@reddit
The feeling is mutual :)
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
your feeling is delusional. Your lying and denying reality.
Ok_Pea_3842@reddit
Multiple videos of Israeli 'soldiers' using civilians as human shields.
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
So its only a problem when some soldiers do it, but not a problem when the organization does it as policy? Make it make sense
TokyoMegatronics@reddit
why do you get such a hard on for killing people by association?
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
I dont, I would absolutely prefer hamas lay down their weapons and return the hostages and an international force take their place. But until then hamas must be degraded until it surrenders
Sad-Broccoli@reddit
That's quite literally the definition of terrorism.
"For the purpose of the Order, “terrorism” is defined to be an activity that (1) involves a violent act or an act dangerous to human life, property, or infrastructure; and (2) appears to be intended to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, kidnapping, or hostage-taking."
https://www.state.gov/executive-order-13224#:\~:text=For%20the%20purpose%20of%20the,kidnapping%2C%20or%20hostage%2Dtaking.
And Hamas has already offered to do all of that multiple times and Israel has rejected them every time.
“We later found out that Hamas had offered on October 9 or 10 (2023) to release all the civilian hostages in exchange for the IDF not entering the Strip, but the government rejected the offer.”
'A senior Hamas official told NBC News’ Richard Engel that the group is willing to immediately release all civilian hostages — foreign and Israeli — if Israel stops its airstrikes on Gaza.' Oct. 17, 2023
'Hamas ready to cede control of Gaza, official says' Feb 27, 2025
‘Hamas says it is ready to release all remaining hostages for an end to Gaza war’ April 17, 2025
TokyoMegatronics@reddit
and i would much rather that israeli lay down its arms, returns the thousands of Palestinian hostages, Palestinian land, Palestinian Houses and lets an international force take their place.
but oh well.
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
there are no palestinian "hostages". there is no palestinian land to hand over.
You're an antisemite literally calling for the annihilation of israel
TokyoMegatronics@reddit
Statistics on Palestinians in Israeli custody | B'Tselem
actually, there are almost 10,000 Palestinians in israeli custody.
well thats just a lie that shows you don't really have a grasp on exactly how much of even the west bank (where there is no hamas in case you didn't know) is controlled and being settled by israel.
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
Terrorists and criminals are not hostages. Land won in a defensive war no long belongs to the aggressor.
celloh234@reddit
Gazans dont have such luxuries like innocent until proven guilty or right to a speedy trial or right to have a lawyer. Israel has been literally kidnapping random people off the street only for them to be detained indefinitely never see a trail or a lawyer and get tortured and raped
TokyoMegatronics@reddit
Conditions for Palestinian children in Israeli detention deteriorate yep, even the children are terrorists.
how much is bibi paying you to sit on reddit all day? surely can't be that much.
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
your own article number 250 out of the thousands you claim and it was for attacking soldiers. Would you prefer they have been shot to being arrested? What do you when children attack someone? You put them in jail, just like any other country.
TokyoMegatronics@reddit
bro is actually defending child rape now.
are you actually okay? like, do you need help?
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
cool, prosecute the ones that did it. That doesnt mean these are hostages. They literally attacked soldiers.
TokyoMegatronics@reddit
i hesitate to think what a sad life someone must live to look at statistics about children being raped and say "they probably deserved it".
pretty gross.
what do you think a child is going to do against say a tank? throwing a stone at a tank = going to prison and being raped?
thank god you aren't a judge or in a position of power.
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
Why can you people never argue in good faith. I said the ones responsible should be prosecuted. That doesnt mean they are innocent they still should have been arrest.
TokyoMegatronics@reddit
rrigghhttt
why would they be? israel and the IDF has a nice long history of raping palestinians.
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
So you dont actually have a response or intend to argue in good faith, just try and lie and slander me based on the opposite of what i said.
TokyoMegatronics@reddit
your right i don't intend to argue in good faith.
what would be the point?
i could show you videos of children being bombed walking down the street, reports of the IDF using palestinians are target practice, raping palestinian children and women...
and you would say "um aktually, they deserve it"
it would probably be easier and faster for you to just say "i hate palestinians" than do the 300 comment/reply dance of you justifying every bad thing that happens to them at the hands of the zionists :)
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
Will you be honest about your desire to destroy israel too?
TokyoMegatronics@reddit
man if this was the 80's would i have people on reddit saying "huh you're telling me you want to destroy apartheid south africa?? huh you want to destroy Rhodesia??"
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
Im waiting
TokyoMegatronics@reddit
for? what sorry?
Christmas?
in that case you'll be waiting about another 3 months
hell to freeze over?
well it normally snows in january in israel, so about 4 months?
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
for you to also admit you want israel to be eradicated and its people murdered.
TokyoMegatronics@reddit
To also? Sorry what’s the other thing I’m meant to be admitting?
Oh you want to play that game? The “here is something say yes or no right now” game.
Why don’t you admit you want the Palestinians to suffer a genocide so that an ethnostate can be created?
See, neither of us would actually admit to wanting those things, even if we did, because that would be a stupid thing to say in public :)
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
Your the one thats already admitted to acting in bad faith, keep wallowing in the mud
TokyoMegatronics@reddit
You’re*
Sorry, I know it can be hard to type correctly when your crashing out, but it’s still important that we spell things correctly so that others can properly understand what’s been said :)
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
Just admit it.
TokyoMegatronics@reddit
Admit what sorry?
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/anime_titties/comments/1n4yfrs/comment/nbpksrm/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
TokyoMegatronics@reddit
Sorry I still don’t understand what you’re asking from me?
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
Will you be honest about your desire to destroy israel too?
TokyoMegatronics@reddit
“Too”? Where else am I allegedly wanting destroyed?
That doesn’t make any sense.
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
TokyoMegatronics@reddit
You can swap every word “anti-Semite” in that for Zionist and get the same result btw.
Like how we have been talking for ages and now you are just defaulting to the most basic “you want israel destroyed” because you know, as well as I know, that it is a truly evil, genocidal, colonising state.
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
"No u"
TokyoMegatronics@reddit
Oh wow you took a while to respond. Did you just finish your break at the tel aviv zionist commenter office?
Ok_Pea_3842@reddit
There are thousands of Palestinian hostages being tortured and raped by the terrorist state of Israel, even ignoring the Gaza concentration camp Israel has blockaded over a million Palestinians in.
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
Criminals and terrorists are not hostages
Ok_Pea_3842@reddit
The terrorist state of Israel kangaroo courts aren't really a benchmark of jurisprudence.
Those Israeli rapists still walking free?
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
Did your goal post come with wheels or are they aftermarket?
Ok_Pea_3842@reddit
Israel bombed them along with hospitals and schools, churches & bakeries.
hoffenone@reddit
By that logic Eqypt has also blockaded the Palestinians in this concentration camp. Why aren’t they being harassed as well?
Ok_Pea_3842@reddit
Yes, Sisi is an American Israeli stooge but he isn't the one massacring Palestinians. That would be the terrorist state of Israel.
Cynixxx@reddit
You really think there are still hostages alive after the IOF bombed Gaza to shreds? They probably got killed already by the IOF bombings or by Hamas because what's the worth of hostages if your enemy attacks you anyway recklessly and genocides citizens?
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
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Cat_Caterpillar_OOO@reddit
They don't fear hamas at all, Israel's intelligence has been saying since last year that Hamas is no longer a relevant threat. It was reiterated this month. What's actually happening is Israel's piece of shit citizens are getting tired of Netanyahu's disinterest in his own hostage lies and need more brutality to approve of.
DrafteeDragon@reddit
So all Israelis are pieces of shit? Despite them not choosing where they were born or being necessarily pro Netanyahu? That seems arbitrary
JustinTime4763@reddit
A majority are! This can be demonstrated by looking at opinions polling of Israeli citizens
DrafteeDragon@reddit
You can apply the same logic to Palestinian approval of Hamas. Are they all terrorists? It’s really sad logic man. People don’t choose where they’re born.
CwazyCanuck@reddit
Hamas aren’t terrorists in Palestine.
SowingSalt@reddit
Yahya "Butcher of Khan Younis" Sinwar wasn't a terrorist?
CwazyCanuck@reddit
Who in Palestine has designated him a terrorist?
SowingSalt@reddit
The people he extrajudicially murdered.
CwazyCanuck@reddit
Does that make the people that extrajudicially murdered Palestinians terrorists?
HalfLeper@reddit
How do you figure? 🤨
CwazyCanuck@reddit
If Iran designates the IDF as terrorists, are the IDF suddenly terrorists in Israel? No.
Palestine has not designated Hamas as terrorists, therefore Hamas aren’t terrorists in Palestine.
HalfLeper@reddit
Ah, you mean legally. I don’t think that’s really relevant, though, since that’s not the frame of reference employed by the person you’re answering, nor in the chain, which is discussing ideological support and not legal classifications.
JustinTime4763@reddit
No, because Hamas is not a terrorist group. The right of a colonized people to resist their occupation is enshrined in international law. All a terrorist group really is, is a organization that uses force opposing the interests of Western hegemony, the interests of Wall Street.
As far as I'm concerned, the only real terrorist groups in this "conflict" is the IOF and the U.S. backing it. Hamas is easily the lesser evil!
HalfLeper@reddit
Saying Hamas isn’t a terrorist group is…a take, to be sure. I’d say it’s rather unfounded, though, considering their methods, even against their own population, and the way they became the government in the first place…
BackseatCowwatcher@reddit
That's the thing, Palestinians aren't resisting the proxy military that occupied Gaza and executed the legitimate government, in fact polls show they rather support them.
Not every Nazi was born in Nazi Germany. [EXAMPLE] furthermore it should be noted the Palestinians got to this point because they supported the Nazis, after they lost world war 2.
Drab_Majesty@reddit
This is what happens when boot lickers deep throat Bibi's hasbara
JustinTime4763@reddit
No, they are resisting their Jewish supremacist occupiers that are committing a holocaust on the Palestinian people.
Did I say that every Nazi was born in Nazi Germany, or did I create a hypothetical that posited every Nazi was? You'd think you'd have better reading comprehension skills considering American dollars bankroll the social democracy of Isn'treal😂
DrafteeDragon@reddit
https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/07/17/october-7-crimes-against-humanity-war-crimes-hamas-led-groups
They are terrorists and represent the muslim brotherhood, whether you like it or not.
namikazeiyfe@reddit
So if we go by this logic then Palestinians in Gaza are mostly terrorists piece of shits huh?
JustinTime4763@reddit
No, because Hamas is not a terrorist organization.
namikazeiyfe@reddit
Lol.. they absolutely are and it's not even a debate. They have ruled Gaza through Terror, they terrorise and kill Palestinians who do not support them. They target civilians all the time and the acts they carried out in October 7 is a clear act of terrorism. They are an internationally designated terrorist organisation
JustinTime4763@reddit
If hamas killed Palestinians all the time, you would love them
TokyoMegatronics@reddit
"Other findings were grim: A majority of 56 percent of Jews supported the "transfer (forced expulsion) of Arab citizens of Israel to other countries." And when asked directly whether they agreed with the position that the IDF, "when conquering an enemy city, should act in a manner similar to the way the Israelites acted when they conquered Jericho under the leadership of Joshua, namely, to kill all its inhabitants?" nearly half, 47 percent, agreed."
"Some 64% of Israelis believe that “there are no innocents” in Gaza, signaling a surge in extremist views in Israeli society, a new survey found on Wednesday.
The survey by the Hebrew University’s aChord Center showed that 87% of supporters of the ruling coalition see “no innocents” in the Palestinian enclave.
The poll also found that 73% of voters for opposition leader Avigdor Lieberman’s Yisrael Beiteinu Party and other right-wing, non-coalition parties have the same view.
It revealed that support among centrist voters stood at 67%, while 30% of left-wing voters agreed. In contrast, 92% of Arab citizens of Israel rejected this view.
The poll also examined public attitudes toward media coverage of the Israeli war in Gaza. It found that 64% of Israelis said domestic media coverage was balanced and did not require broader reporting on the humanitarian situation in the Palestinian enclave.
Among coalition voters, 89% held that view, while among opposition voters, only 44% agreed, with 56% of the latter calling for broader coverage."
DrafteeDragon@reddit
“74.7% of Palestinians support a ‘Palestinian state from the river to the sea,’ rejecting coexistence with Israel” (AWRAD poll, 2023).
“26% say the long-term goal of the PA/PLO is to conquer Israel or conquer it and kill most Jews” (PCPSR Poll #57, 2015).
“58% supported armed attacks against Israeli civilians; 92% supported armed confrontations with the Israeli army” (PSR, July 2001).
Now check out Arab Leaders’ Statements in 1947–48 (War of Independence) :)):
Azzam Pasha, Secretary-General of the Arab League, Oct. 11, 1947: “This will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacres and the Crusades.” (reported by The New York Times, May 15, 1948).
Jamal Husseini (Arab Higher Committee), April 1948: “The Arabs intend to conduct a war of extermination and mass slaughter against the Jews.” (quoted in UN Security Council Official Records, 1948).
Post oct 7:
Almost three in four Palestinians (72%) said the October 7 attack was ‘correct’.” (PCPSR, Dec 2023)
“In November 2023, 83.1 percent of West Bankers and 63.6 percent of Gazans supported the October 7 attack.” (AWRAD, Nov 2023)
“Hamas’s popularity fell in Gaza but rose in the West Bank: by May 2024, only a quarter of Gazans supported Hamas, while 76 percent of West Bankers viewed it positively.” (AWRAD, May 2024)
“Polls show approval of Hamas’s October 7 attack still substantial overall even as Gaza support sank, two-thirds of Palestinians continued to approve of the attack.” (PCPSR, 2024)
TastyBroccoli4@reddit
Not disagreeing but they seem to pretty bad at it. The whole world knows they're committing genocide although they try so hard to suppress the truth. So the whole truth must be even worse than the things we already know.
GothicGolem29@reddit
Attacking a member of a terror group would not be because they fear the truth or because they are a terror entity
SignificantAd1421@reddit
He is a member of a terrorist group
Maximum-Hall-5614@reddit
Look up the entities that merged to create the IDF.
Now look up how many Israeli Prime Ministers were part of those pre-IDF entities.
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
You mean the jewish paramilities are were created to defend jews after a decade of pogroms and massacres and then Actual apartheid? Surely you must not have a problem with them if you want to defend hamas. The counter point is hamas wants to murder jews not protect palestinians.
Sad-Broccoli@reddit
You mean the self proclaimed zionist terrorists?
https://youtu.be/MQ1TAOibLss?si=Q5OinMwelgI3ij1i
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
"youtube", get better sources
Sad-Broccoli@reddit
https://archive.org/details/AlbertEinsteinLetterToTheNewYorkTimes.December41948
https://www.nytimes.com/1946/12/24/archives/zionists-condemn-palestine-terror-basle-congress-bars-joining-in.html?sq=Irgun+terrorist+president&scp=13&st=p
https://www.nytimes.com/1947/08/16/archives/irguns-hand-seen-in-alps-rail-blast-polish-jew-confesses-he-was.html
https://www.nytimes.com/1947/12/30/archives/irgun-bomb-kills-11-arabs-2-britons-missile-thrown-from-a-taxi-in.html?sq=terrorist+Irgun&scp=2&st=p
https://books.google.com/books?id=rTZhyGadxD4C&pg=PA37
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/02684520802293049
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_political_violence#Irgun,_Haganah_and_Lehi_attacks
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Irgun-Zvai-Leumi
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(militant_group)
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
Oh look, the militias that were formed after a decade of one sided arab on Jewish violence
Sad-Broccoli@reddit
Oh please. Thats such disingenuous framing. "Arabs" didn't just magically become antisemitic overnight and started attacking Jewish people. There were already Jewish Palestinians living there with Muslim and Christian Palestinians before Zionism.
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
your right, the Quran teaches antisemitism. They have been antisemitic for a while. and when the riots of 1920 started, there was no stolen land, and they murdered jews not zionists.
Sad-Broccoli@reddit
Zionism has been around since the late 19th century and Zionists started settling in Palestine in 1881.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Aliyah
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lovers_of_Zion
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
Great, and the non zionists that were the prime target?
Sad-Broccoli@reddit
Still the fault of Zionists. Jewish people living in the middle east are also victims of Zionists. The Zionists bombed and killed them too
TokyoMegatronics@reddit
I’m not sure paying the Moroccan king to deport all jews to israel is a pogrom or a massacre.
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
So saving jews from nazis is the example you want to go with and not the massacres in the mandate. Youre fucking dishonest and bad faith its not even funny.
TokyoMegatronics@reddit
the morrocans were nazis?...
were the Iraqis that chose a jew to be a member of government to negotiate on their behalf with the british nazis?
the the algerian jews that received french citizenship?
or the Yemeni jews that were forced out of Yemen by... Mossad?
40% of Holocaust survivors living in poverty, including a quarter of those in Israel, buoyed by welfare benefits and nonprofits - eJewishPhilanthropy - btw almost half the still alive holocaust survivors live in poverty.
Three worlds by A. Schlaim Chpt 10 "In post-war Israel, survivors of the Holocaust were harshly and unfairly criticised for not resisting, for allowing themselves, in the biblical phrase, to be led like sheep to the slaughter"
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
the "deportation" was to get them away from vichy france collaborators. Again why are you talking about post world war 2? were talking about the massacres carried out by arabs in the mandate
TokyoMegatronics@reddit
hey man, you're the one that said it was to save the jews from the nazis.
when its fairly well known that that isn't why israel was created. they had been pining for a state, such as sudan, argentina or palestine for almost 50 years beforehand and had even written to Cecil Rhodes about a "colonial" project.
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
why do you evade the point continuously. Why do you ignore the arab massacres of jews in the mandate and deflect to morocco deporting jews to prevent them from being sent to death camps.
TokyoMegatronics@reddit
brother, you are crashing out hard.
i'll make it simple for you
Israel
paid
the
morrocan king
to
deport
jews
from
morroco
for
"human capital"
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
Wanting to stick to the argument at hand is not "crashing out". Saving jews from nazis has nothing to do with palestinians murdering jews in the 20s
Maximum-Hall-5614@reddit
Hey dumbass, Zionists have been murdering Palestinians with impunity since 1882, according to your fellow genocide cheerleader Benny Morris, an Israeli historian. The first recorded instance of Palestinian violence against any Zionist was in 1913 - a full 31 years later.
Zionists have always been the aggressors. Even the movements own early leaders were unashamedly bragging about how their project required the extermination and expulsion of the indigenous population.
Why are you denying the truth of the original Zionists? Are you calling those Jews liars? How very antisemitic of you.
TokyoMegatronics@reddit
but you were the one that said it was to save the jews from the nazis :)
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
It was. Now back on topic, why do you refuse to acknowledge the massacres committed by palestinians?
TokyoMegatronics@reddit
what massacres sorry?
i don't think we have the right to say that a people protecting their land, homes and people from a settler colonial state necessarily did anything wrong?
if i got all my mates together and came to your street and started trying to kick you out to take your home would you not also try and stop me?
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Palestine_riots
Fortunately no one was trying to kick anyone out and they murdered jews not zionists
TokyoMegatronics@reddit
"According to some historians, the uprising was also triggered by the refusal of Zionist leaders to accept British offers of shared representation in Palestine which was accepted by the Arab leadership.^([1]) Scholars have also pointed to the transfer of land to the Jewish National Fund, which, along with rising concerns over land sales and immigration, contributed to socioeconomic anxieties that helped fuel the outbreak."
its literally the first paragraph dude.
"as well as Arab fears of Jewish immigrants "not only as a menace to their livelihood but a possible overlord of the future"" - wow the palestinians back then were right on the money? only 20 years too soon.
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
So was the KKK justified in lynching black folks that moved into white neighborhoods?
TokyoMegatronics@reddit
were black people trying to kick KKK members out of their house and steal their land?
what an insane response, you really aren't getting paid enough for this.
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
Jews didnt kick anyone out of their houses, neither had zionists. The palestinians killed them both without distinction and in numerous attacks.
celloh234@reddit
What an insane comment lmao how much are you getting paid per hour?
TokyoMegatronics@reddit
"In 1968, after Israel occupied the West Bank and Gaza, Theodor Meron, then legal adviser to the Israeli Foreign Ministry, advised the Prime Minister's office in a top secret memorandum that house demolitions, even of suspected terrorists' residences, violated the 1949 Fourth Geneva Convention on the protection of civilians in war. Undertaking such measures, as though they were in continuity with British mandatory emergency regulations, might be useful as hasbara but were "legally unconvincing". The advice was ignored. His view, according to Gershom Gorenberg, is shared by nearly all scholars of international law, prominent Israeli experts included.^([19]) The practice of demolishing Palestinian houses began within two days of the conquest of the area in the Old City of Jerusalem known as the Moroccan Quarter, adjacent to the Western Wall. One of the first measures adopted, without legal authorization, on the conquest of Jerusalem in 1967 was to evict 650 Palestinians from their homes in the heart of Jerusalem, and reduce their homes and shrines to rubble in order to make way for the construction of the plaza.^([20])^([21]) From the outset of the occupation of the Palestinian territories up to 2019, according to an estimate by the ICAHD, Israel has razed 49,532 Palestinian structures"
Israeli demolition of Palestinian property - Wikipedia
yawn
you know google exists right? like people can just google things and get answers... for free. not quite sure who you think is going to read your comments and go "yesss israel is a divine state that has never done anything evil!"
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
Why can you not stay on topic? future israeli actions do not retroactively justify massacring jews, especially when future israeli actions are a direct fucking result of the terrorism and murder your trying to justify. If thats the case Hamas and 10-7 Justify literally anything israel has ever and will ever do.
TokyoMegatronics@reddit
God you are so boring now, can you just make another comment about something and move the goalposts a bit more so I can google the answer to your obviously wrong assertion and post it here before you comment so the same again?
Maximum-Hall-5614@reddit
Zionist* paramilitaries - their religion had nothing to do with their terrorism - created to accelerate the ethnic cleansing of Palestine, as well as to carry out terrorist attacks in other countries in order to terrorize Jews into emigrating to Palestine, to create an artificial religious majority as demanded by the Zionist project.
And in fact I do have a problem with colonial occupiers using terrorist militias and terrorist tactics to crush the resistance to their illegal occupation.
Hamas makes it very clear in its charter that its enemy is Zionism, not Judaism. Judaism does not require the ethnic cleansing of Palestine. Zionism requires it.
Need I remind you - under international law, occupied peoples have an inalienable right to resist occupation by any means necessary, including the use of violence against “civilians” enforcing the occupation.
chdjfnd@reddit
“Its enemy is zionism not judaism”
Why does article 7 of Hamas charter quote a Hadith stating that the day of Judgement will not arrive until Muslims have killed all the Jews?
Why does article 22 state that Jews are responsible for WW1, WW2 and that they control the UN?
Why does article 28 say “Israel, judaism and Jews challenge Islam”
Maximum-Hall-5614@reddit
Are you stuck in 1987?
Here’s some direct excerpts from their standing charter:
Try harder, cunt.
chdjfnd@reddit
Its funny that they had to add an article to specify that their problem is not with Jews & that its Zionists who weaponise Judaism (most jews are zionists) without acknowledging that their founding charter was openly anti semitic and is the reason why Hamas are seen as that
Article 17 specifically denies the history of anti semitism in the Middle East; anti semitism that they themselves helped perpetuate in their first charter
Is this also the same charter that states all of Israel is Palestine and that all of Palestine is an Arab Muslim land & states that all Jewish holy sites in Jerusalem as Arab (who have priority) or Christian?
Maximum-Hall-5614@reddit
When the Zionist project weaponizes and falsely conflates Zionism with Judaism (the other group to consistently insist on this false equivalence is Neo-Nazis) and smears the fight for indigenous liberation as an antisemitic act, then yeah, it becomes important to put in a clause to address the inevitable dishonest accusations made by Zionists.
You will make all these accusations whilst defending a settler-colonial terrorist entity that has been actively committing a fucking genocide, and is actively attempting to invade and annex parts of Lebanon, Syria Jordan, Egypt and Saudi Arabia under the false premise of a “Greater Israel” - hmm I remember another fascist entity that insisted that territorial expansion was required for the safety of their elevated in-group, which required the subjugation and extermination of an innocent out-group.
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
Why are you ignoring the massacres of jews prior to their formation?
Maximum-Hall-5614@reddit
Why are you ignoring the countless massacres of indigenous Palestinians by Zionists since the 1880s?
Why are you ignoring the genocidal rhetoric of the original founders of the Zionist movement?
Why are you ignoring the hundreds of thousands of Palestinians murdered in the name of Zionism, compared to a couple thousand Zionists killed in response?
Only colonizers would use indigenous resistance to justify genocide.
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
O god please provide citation for these massacres before the formation of these paramilitaries
Maximum-Hall-5614@reddit
The first Zionist militia (Paole Zion) was founded in Russia, lmao. They planned the violent takeover of Palestine even before the arrived on the land. It was created in response to the General Jewish Labour Bund organization rejecting Zionism. It had a New York City branch before any of its members ever set foot in Palestine.
And of course, Paole Zion was created in response to European antisemitism. But of course, as fellow white Europeans, the Ashkenazi Zionists felt an urge to enact violence not upon their oppressors, but upon the indigenous people of the land they intended to take over for their own exclusive use.
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
So you cant provide evidence of these massacres then?
DocBigBrozer@reddit
Keep in mind Israel calls the entire government as well as any adult male in Gaza Hamas. Even cameras FFS
Rowdybizzness@reddit
Keep in mind this guy is literally the spokesperson for Hamas. He is not allegedly a member of Hamas.
platp@reddit
Israel is a terror colony. Many of their adult population held arms and terrorized Palestinians in their own lands. Maybe you shouldn't be that fast to say being part of a military makes you a target. Because almost all Israeli adults have participated in a terror organization. And for comparison a very small minority of Palestinians participated in armed resistance.
So maybe apply your standards to Israel and see how criminal or not Palestinian resistance is when killing members of terror groups.
Rowdybizzness@reddit
Okay read my comment again and see if yours makes sense.
platp@reddit
Why did you say he is part of Hamas when he is killed in a genocide?
Rowdybizzness@reddit
Someone says he is a member of a terrorist organization.
Someone else replies that Israel says everyone is in Hamas.
I point out that he is the spokesperson of Hamas. Implying there is no ambiguity on if he is Hamas or not.
You:
What?
What standard have I applied? Someone says something that implies he may not be in Hamas. I sat here is the spokesperson for Hamas. The title of the thread you are in starts with “The Face of Hamas.”
Do you not think he was in Hamas?
I didn’t say whether it was right or wrong, I just pointed out that he was indeed a member.
Let me know if that was too ambiguous for you or you’re having trouble understanding what I said and I will try to dumb it down further.
platp@reddit
This part is not entirely true. They said they call the entire government Hamas in addition to what you said they said. That implies they think Israel says the entire government is legitimate targets. Which is a war crime even though the entire government IS part of Hamas.
So your reply of them being Hamas does not make sense because the person you replied to already implied that not all Hamas members are legitimate targets.
And I followed on that with what I said because I assumed you understood what you were replying to.
Now read everything with knowing this new information you were provided. New to you. You should have understood what was being said but you seem to not have done so.
This is not true. They just additionally said any adult male is considered Hamas by Israel because it simply is the truth. Not because it adds to this specific situation. Just like saying Israel considers cameras Hamas does not add to this specific situation. But you should see that they first said Israel considers the whole government to be Hamas, which actually is the truth. But Israel says this without differentiating between civilian Hamas and armed Hamas. And that is what is objected to here.
Rowdybizzness@reddit
Hmmm I guess we thought the person I replied to was implying two different things.
One person said :
Another person says:
I obviously took that to mean that just because Israel says they are Hamas does not mean they are Hamas. Obviously Israel thinks anyone in Hamas is a valid target.
All that being said, he is quite clearly a valid military target.
platp@reddit
Why? Because we assume Israel will do war crimes by default?
He is an unarmed person. He is a spokes person. He is not a military target. He is not a valid target. I don't understand why you think he is. Do you also think Israels spokes persons are valid military targets?
Rowdybizzness@reddit
What even is this reply? It doesn’t even make sense in context. Are you asking why does Israel thinks everyone in Hamas is a valid target? Because Israel has designed Hamas as a terrorist organization like a lot of countries have. Unlike a few countries, Israel does not differentiate between Hamas military and government. Therefore they believe anyone in Hamas is a military target.
Because he is a senior Hamas operative and member of the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigade as well as the face of Hamas psychological warfare efforts.
Do we require senior military members to have a gun in their hands before we assassinate them before it’s okay to consider it a valid military operation?
You’re saying he’s a spokesman like he represents the local tire distributor. He is the mouth piece age member of the Hamas military, a genocidal medieval death cult.
It doesn’t matter if I or you think that the lead Israel military propagandist is then a valid military target. Your question should be does Hamas think they are.
platp@reddit
Yep. Accepting that Israel will do war crimes by default when you say this. You can't declare people terrorists and kill everyone without them being armed or unarmed. That is a war crime. What if Hamas declared IOF a terrorist entity? Can they kill every armed or unarmed member of IOF? Does that make sense to you?
Okay, there are many who claim they are civilians helping Israeli psychological war effort. Would you say they are fair targets since you say being agianst Israeli war effort is?
Yes and Israeli ones represent genocider entity. Would you say the same for them? You say Hamas is genocidal, medieval death cult yet it is the Israelis who mock the victims of their extermination campaign while sitting on beaches and unaffacted homes living like there is no conflict because of course an extermination campaign will be like this. One side being exterminated and the other living like nothing is happening. And that is what a death cult would look like, not people giving up their lives for freedom from brutal, genocider colonists but people killing gleefully and applauding genocide from the comfort of their homes.
It doesn’t matter if I or you think that the lead Israel military propagandist is then a valid military target. Your question should be does Hamas think they are.
Why? Can't we have our own opinions about validity of things? You certainly have that for Palestinians and their resistance organization. Why did you not give your opinion about the genocide apartheid colony and people who represent it?
Rowdybizzness@reddit
Your English is pretty good but I don’t think you have a good enough grasp of it for us to have a meaningful discussion. There are certain things you are not comprehending.
Also, I know you hate Israel and they are evil and all that jazz, but to be quite frank, I don’t have any desire to talk to a terrorist sympathizer either.
platp@reddit
I mean western genocide supporting nations would and already do declare any resistance to terrorist apartheid colonists as terrorists. The oppressors decide the means of the struggle. Since Israel has always killed Palestinian civilians without repercussions, the ressitance have no choice but to resist with similar violence. Still, the resistance is hundreds of times more moral than those who they resist against. And nothing more can be demanded from people being terrorized all their lives. Resistance is a right. Oppression, terror, colonialism, apartheid are not.
Rowdybizzness@reddit
This has to be a bot.
platp@reddit
When reality is so misaligned with what you believe, you can't believe it even when it is said to you clearly. Which part of what I said is wrong? Is there any chance the genocide supporters would accept a resistance against their precious genocide apartheid colony? Are any of those labels wrong for this terror regime?
Palestinian resistance spared children even though their children are killed indiscriminately and even deliberately. Israel kills Palestinian children even though their children were spared. The difference between them is huge. There can be no comparison to people who are not indocrinated all their lives to support evil.
Rowdybizzness@reddit
Beep bop boop
platp@reddit
Imagine saying someone has to be a bot because they say the people being genocided can't have a resistance that wouldn't be labeled terrorists by their enemies who are currently doing a genocide against them. You don't have to imagine, you are doing it.
No amount of evil will stop some people from believing their nations are good. Because they don't consider their people can do evil. They can't fathom other people can have the same rights they do. They don't consider the evil their nations do against others as what they are. They are blind, deaf, and unintelligent. They can't be convinced to be against evil. Don't be one of them.
Rowdybizzness@reddit
Opinion discarded.
platp@reddit
Do what you will. But humanity will win against evil. With you or without you.
Rowdybizzness@reddit
Oh I believe so as well. Humanity and Israel will prevail over the 6th century barbarians.
platp@reddit
And what century do jews and christians believe in if muslims believe in the 6th century? I mean there is stupid and there is stupid. But it doesn't matter to enemies of humanity. They will gleefully back up a genocide and say their genocide regime will win against the barbarians who are bieng exterminated. Beware, some propagandasits for genocide were judged in international courts before.
Rowdybizzness@reddit
Beware you are in Turkey and are a terrorist sympathizer. Beware, some terrorists were judged by the US and her allies before.
platp@reddit
I am aware that I am against terrorists who want to annihilate people like me everywhere. Don't worry. But again, humanity will defeat evil.
Rowdybizzness@reddit
I guess when you are a member of a medieval blood cult everyone else looks like a terrorist.
platp@reddit
Funny accusation coming from someone saying genociding regime will defeat evil.
Nothing your side does will convince you you are wrong. Nothing. You think we are not humans. You think we don't have the same rights as you do. You think you are above us. You know what? You are not. I am not below you in any way. But someone who is staunchly siding with evil will never accept that.
Rowdybizzness@reddit
I am always above people who practice a religion of evil. It is full of scum and villainy.
platp@reddit
Judaists are doing a genocide right now. Not muslims. Why would you say Islam is the religion of evil when you don't say that about Judaism.
Judaism is also the religion which believes they have done many exterminations against their enemies before. Not Islam.
Rowdybizzness@reddit
You’re right nothing will convince me because if I believed what you did then we would both be wrong.
platp@reddit
You don't make up your beliefs according to reality. You make them up according to propaganda you were fed. From media, including news and films, and from the government. Nothing that shows your governments and those who fed you the lies are evil is getting through that propaganda. No amount of evidence, including extermination of peoples convince you otherwise. Did you every think about what North Koreans feel when they are fed lies? You don't need to wonder. You believe all lies yourself and unlike North Koreans, who probably would believe the truth they see, you don't falter in your believes in face of reality.
Rowdybizzness@reddit
What about this pic of Muslims killing Jew babies.
https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/200/322/a47.png
platp@reddit
I'm not clicking that link. Give me some news about what you are talking about.
There is ample evidence of judaists killing muslim babies every day for two years. In fact, they have killed more than 2000 so far. Burned them, beheaded them. Even before this genocide began, judaist settlers burned a Palestinian baby in 2015 in cold blood in their home with their family. You can't make this up. Terrorists killing civilians, even their babies in their homes. This is reality.
Rowdybizzness@reddit
Oh the link was just a cartoon of the pedophile Muhammad and his 9 year old child bride.
Just looked at some stars and saw only 20% of Turkish people are inbred. You guys are doing pretty good compared to a lot of Arab nations who are over 50% inbred. But I guess that still gives you a 1 in 5 chance of having decreases mental faculties.
Empty-Development298@reddit
I believe the person you are arguing with is a either bot or a bad faith actor. Their post history is 24/7 unapologetic attacks on Israel and constant justification of Hamas' actions.
This is my conclusion based on their post history after I refuted multiple claims from them attempting to lump me as some kind of Israel apologist, when I have very little stake in this war in general. It's very annoying.
I did a deeper dive on their profile, and they seem to be from Turkey with a strong prejudice against Israel in particular. I would discount further discussion with them simply because they seem to have a well defined end-goal with no interest in compromising anything that remotely damages the image of Hamas.
Rowdybizzness@reddit
I was getting that impression but thanks for the heads up.
Empty-Development298@reddit
Cheers
dummypod@reddit
I see him as a military spokesperson, his position is no different than the ones who made apology videos everytime Israel does something indefensible like killing confirmed paramedics or aid workers. But of course Abu Obeida is a better person because he hasn't defended slaughtering civilians as much as the IDF
Rowdybizzness@reddit
You can see him as whatever you want but he is a member of the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades. He is not a civilian.
He’s just a military spokesperson in the same way that Joseph Goebbels was just a military spokesperson.
themightycatp00@reddit
And the military wing of hamas at that
Whentheangelsings@reddit
Ya but this guy is literally Hamas spokesman
deucedeucerims@reddit
Was Mathew Miller a valid military target or no?
Whentheangelsings@reddit
He was never in military uniform, isn't a part of an internationally recognized terrorist organization and typically ain't standing right next to the same terrorists with guns.
The-dotnet-guy@reddit
Hamas made every male over 12 years old military targets by refusing to wear uniforms.
Check_Me_Out-Boss@reddit
Must have taken a page from Obama’s book.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/05/under-obama-men-killed-by-drones-are-presumed-to-be-terrorists/257749/
luminatimids@reddit
Who gives a shit?
EgyptianNational@reddit
Only seen as such by a handful of countries.
Significant_Cowboy83@reddit
The EU, The Organization of the American States (North and South America), Japan, NZ, Australia, Israel (obviously), UAE, Saudi Arabia names Muslim Brotherhood as terrorist (however they consider Hamas a part of that group but don’t name them specifically), Egypt considers them a hostile group (but not listed as a terrorist entity even after a court ruled it was). That’s not insignificant.
Maximum-Hall-5614@reddit
Over 150 sovereign states do not consider Hamas a terrorist group.
Significant_Cowboy83@reddit
I don’t really care if states don’t consider a terrorist group terrorist. It doesn’t change them into not being a terrorist group. They use Hamas as a pawn for their own political purposes.
Maximum-Hall-5614@reddit
Lol.
I’m sure you have the same amount of disdain for the organization that exists through the merging of the terrorist militias of Haganah, Irgun and Lehi.
Nor will you have the same disdain for the world’s foremost financier of terrorism around the world - the US government.
Significant_Cowboy83@reddit
I never said I like the IDF….
platp@reddit
But you still don't seem to accept their terrorist status. They have both earned it by being made by terror organizations and from inflicting terror intentionally on their victims for almost a century now. Watch Breaking the Silence on youtube if you want to learn how they terrorize people by both killing them but also while not killing them.
Significant_Cowboy83@reddit
I do think the IDF has engaged in what can fairly be called terror tactics — especially in the West Bank, outside the current Gaza war. Groups like Breaking the Silence and the documentary No Other Land, which you should watch, have shown how night raids, demolitions, and checkpoints create a constant atmosphere of fear for ordinary Palestinians. That’s real, and it shouldn’t be dismissed. However there is a distinction, the IDF is a state military, whereas Hamas is a non-state armed group. International law treats them very differently.
The IDF, as the army of a recognized state, its misconduct is judged under the Geneva Conventions. If it intimidates or displaces civilians, that falls under war crimes or crimes against humanity. That’s why UN reports talk about “apartheid” or “state oppression” instead of terrorism. States are prosecuted for unlawful warfare, not labeled “terrorist organizations.”
With Hamas this is where the difference is stark. Hamas doesn’t just cause civilian casualties - it deliberately makes civilians the target.
Hamas Indiscriminately fires rockets at Israeli towns and cities, conducts suicide bombings, shootings, and the brutal October 7 massacre were all aimed directly at civilians. Hamas charter explicitly calls for Israel’s destruction as well as the elimination of Jews and embraces violence as the path to that goal. They may have removed that in 2017, but it is still their goal, and they stated so on October 7. Hamas does rules Gaza in practice but isn’t recognized as a sovereign state and nor will it ever be. That will rest with the PLO in the West Bank. Most importantly, terror against civilians isn’t a tragic by-product, it is Hamas’s central strategy.
With the IDF, civilians often end up as victims - sometimes in horrifying numbers like we’ve seen recently - but Israel frames its intent as targeting Hamas infrastructure or fighters, which does appear to be true given Hamas’s tactic of hiding amongst civilians to maximize the Gazan casualties. If Israel’s stated intent is proven false or the methods are deemed to be disproportionate by independent non biased verification and judgement, it’s a war crime. With Hamas, the intent is clear and unapologetic: to kill, mutilate, and terrorize civilians as a political tool.
That’s the core difference. We can and should criticize the IDF for policies that terrorize Palestinians, but equating it with Hamas ignores the reality that Hamas’s brutality is not collateral - it is the goal. Sadly in the end, civilians on both sides are the ones who pay the price for this cycle of violence.
I’ve watched many documentaries as well as read many books on both sides of this ever present conflict and I’m definitely still firmly in the middle on this one.
platp@reddit
If this is true, if the only thing that makes IOF not a terror group is them being a state apparatus, then it is a meaningless distinction. I am making a humanitarian argument here, not necessarily a legal one. And to me, it doesn't matter if the terrorists are part of a state or not. To me their actions are what is important. And IOF is the largest terror group to exist today.
With Hamas this is where the difference is stark. Hamas doesn’t just cause civilian casualties - it deliberately makes civilians the target.
This is laguhable when Israel killed 3 unarmed, top naked escaped hostages trying to simply return to Israel and survive. And it is ridiculous to claim Israel does not deliberately target civilians when thousands of people were killed in aid lines were Israel didn't receive a single attack. And it is ridiculous when you consider the truth of everything else, the starvation, the blockade on medicine and water and fuel, the burying of ambulances with their crew, the bombings of over 85% of all buildings, the raping and torturing and killing of hostages in hostage camps.
Actually about 40% of all the killed were active military personnel which is much, much higher than the ratio in Gaza genocide. And Israel denied UN investigating what happened. Considering they have bombed cars, crowds and homes with tanks and helicopters, considering they have received an order to kill everyone at the border, who know who killed the unarmed reservists?
You are simply denying the irrefutable fact of genocide and the evil of Israel. No one believes this genocide propganda anymore. People who are on the side of genocide simply want the "lesser people" to be exterminated. I will say that doing genocide should be severely punsihed in international courts and those who do propaganda for genocide were previously judged in such courts also.
You just want us to shut our thought down when you say this. IOF terrorizing Palestinians deliberately, every day, all their life is colleteral? Are you out of your mind? I don't think you are. I think you know exactly what you are doing.
Being in the middle between colonizers and natives, between slave masters and slaves, between Nazis and holocaust victims, between zionist colonizers and their native victims is an atrocious thing to do.
Significant_Cowboy83@reddit
I don’t defend the IDF. The daily reality for Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza is harsh and often cruel. Raids, demolitions, checkpoints, and the blockade are serious issues that deserve condemnation and accountability. If the IDF commits war crimes or collective punishment, it should be held accountable.
But here’s the key point: Hamas is not the same as the IDF.
The IDF is the army of a recognized state, which means it is bound by international law and judged by the standards for war crimes and crimes against humanity. That doesn’t make its actions acceptable; it just means there’s a legal framework for judging them. In contrast, Hamas is a non-state armed group that purposely targets civilians. The October 7 attacks were not mistakes; they were celebrated acts of terror. There were massacres at a music festival, families killed in their homes, and children harmed. All of this was broadcast for the world to see Hamas celebrating the deaths of Israelis. This fits the textbook definition of terrorism.
Trying to balance this by saying Israel also kills civilians ignores the important difference between intent and outcome. Civilians in Gaza are suffering badly, yes, but Hamas’s goal is to kill civilians. Israel, even if its actions are reckless or disproportionate, claims to target Hamas fighters and infrastructure. This distinction matters, and it is why international law treats them differently.
Dismissing all of this with slogans like “IOF = Nazis” or “it’s genocide” does not help Palestinians; it reduces them to tools in a propaganda fight. Hamas’s brutality doesn’t go away just because Israel is guilty of abuses. Both can be condemned at the same time. In fact, if you truly care about Palestinian lives, you should condemn Hamas for dragging its own people into endless cycles of violence.
Being “in the middle” doesn’t mean supporting oppression. It means realizing that two wrongs do not cancel each other out. You can condemn Israel’s occupation tactics while also refusing to ignore Hamas’s terrorism. Pretending Hamas is just “resistance” does nothing but ensure more innocent people, both Israeli and Palestinian, will suffer.
I question how you responded after the October 7, 2023, invasion and massacre of Israelis. It seems you are focused on downplaying Hamas's role, even though they started this war and made the deaths of Gazan civilians worse by hiding among them like cowards.
platp@reddit
You haven't addressed anything I said. Repeated the last things you said and want me to keep engaging with you? Why?
Israel doesn't also kill civilians. It is doing a very deliberate and intentional genocide. It is deliberately and intentionally exterminating a peoples. Hamas has never done this. And looking at history, muslims wouldn't have done this if they had the rule.
Without reality, this is just an excuse. The reality is in total contrast with its claims. We are not fools. At least not me. A genocide state claiming the opposite of what they do is meaningless to those who do not support genocide and are not fools.
Genocide scum is really disgusting. One should condemn Palestinian resistance because they are being genocided? Go find some evil person who would accept that. I will be against those who are doing genocide.
Why would you even talk about Israeli suffering when they are doing a genocide and extermination of people? It is out of this world. It has only the purpose of hiding what really is happening. And that is Israeli entity brutalizing Palestinians all their lives. The world not punishing Israel. And Palestinians having to respond in kind.
SignificantAd1421@reddit
By a MAJORITY of countries
advillious@reddit
9 out of 195 is a majority? what am i missing?
http://www.comsuregroup.com/news/9-out-of-195-countries-have-designated-hamas-as-a-terrorist-organisation/
BabylonianWeeb@reddit (OP)
There are way more countries that see Israel as terrorist than Hamas.
advillious@reddit
as they should. damn near every human rights org has determined they’re an apartheid state and now they’re carrying out a genocide in plain sight.
Sad-Broccoli@reddit
Dang the hasbara bots went real quiet after this comment
DrafteeDragon@reddit
Islamist countries
Stubbs94@reddit
The majority of the world is Islamist now?
DrafteeDragon@reddit
I meant as a “terrorist state”, responding to the comment above. Learn to read.
advillious@reddit
south africa is an islamist country for taking them to the ICJ? ireland is an islamist country for boycotting them? lol
DrafteeDragon@reddit
South Africa doesn’t recognize Israel as a terrorist state. Do you know what a terrorist is? Also, weirdly enough, despite well known financial difficulties, the ANC is now doing fine and had multiple meetings with Iranian leaders right before they filed a complaint with the ICJ. Hmmm
https://iranwire.com/en/news/129348-160-lawyers-write-to-us-leaders-alleging-iran-bribed-south-africa/
Maximum-Hall-5614@reddit
Lol didn’t know India was an Islamist country, considering there are near-daily pogroms and lynchings against Muslims
DrafteeDragon@reddit
Since when does India classify Israel as a terrorist organization
evil_brain@reddit
And all genocidal settler-colonies and/or colonisers.
advillious@reddit
exactly. it’s quite literally only colonial powers.
Elucidate137@reddit
resistance to settler colonialism is legal under the UN charter
and before people start saying "OCT7 isn’t resistance!”, i would ask if you would expect the native american resistance to american colonialism to be pristine and perfect? We are talking about the eradication of a people and a nation, it ain’t pretty
platp@reddit
And I would also remind everyone that Israel denied UN an investigation into Operation Al Aqsa Flood. And they didn't release almost no evidence to back up their colossal claims. So it is just the words of a terror entity we can use to infer what happened in that operation.
Syrairc@reddit
i don't disagree with this guy being a legit target but Hamas is not considered a terrorist organization by a majority of countries - not by a long shot. A majority of western countries, perhaps, but that's not surprising.
The term "terrorist" means nothing in the context of geopolitics. The former prime minister of Israel and founder of the (currently) ruling Likud party was a "terrorist". His previous organization - Irgun - was designated a terrorist group. You're a terrorist if you violently oppose western imperialism - period.
And just to clarify because people don't seem to understand, this guy was the spokesperson for the MILITANT WING of Hamas, not the government as a whole. This guy wasn't just "pro hamas" or associated with them. He was the mouthpiece of the "terrorist" wing of Hamas, the people directly responsible for starting the current conflict.
platp@reddit
Palestinians didn't start the genocide campaign. Israel has bombed Gaza in 2023 alone on 5 different occasions before Palestinians did their operation. Israel also never lifted the blockade of more than 30 years and of course was continuing it when Palestinians attacked back.
Israel is the colony. They are the aggressor of attacking the land of the natives with the plan of expelling or exterminating them. And we see exactly how barbaric they are while doing their colonization tactics. The colonization is ongoing. We are witnessing it.
EgyptianNational@reddit
Cite source
EvergreenOaks@reddit
The only difference between a terrorist and a soldier in this conflict is the amount of funding they have. Arguably, Israel is more prone to terror tactics.
Palestinian_Warrior2@reddit
Of course the French says this, they always called Algerians who defend their lands from French colonists "terrorists".
4chan__Enthusiast@reddit
How did the FLN not commit terrorism? They targeted civilian centers lmao.
arostrat@reddit
"Civilians" whose only purpose was to steal other people land and spearhead military expansion.
4chan__Enthusiast@reddit
They killed other Algerians too, not just the French.
arostrat@reddit
French resistance against Nazis killed French too, what you think of that?
SignificantAd1421@reddit
That they avoided killing non collaborationist unlike fln who killed actual non white Algerians
4chan__Enthusiast@reddit
They purposely bombed cafes to kill civilians? If they did than that is terrorism too.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
Calling them terrorists means less than nothing when contrasted with French behaviour in Algeria
4chan__Enthusiast@reddit
Sure the French were being terrorist to. How is that supposed to excuse the FLN?
LatterTarget7@reddit
Hamas are terrorists tho. They kill their own population, political opponents and Israelis
Sad-Broccoli@reddit
What does that make Israel?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal_Directive
SignificantAd1421@reddit
Because they were they also killed unrelated algerian civilians.
You would know that if you ever opened an actual history book.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
And how many Algerians did France kill?
Laymanao@reddit
So are Likud members of the Knesset. Are you condemning them too? Or are there double standards?
just_another_noobody@reddit
Wait so you were sympathetic to israel while Abu Obeida was still alive?
HackPhilosopher@reddit
Every time that someone public facing in hamas is killed it sends a message to anyone who is pro hamas that nobody is safe. In societies where higher education isn’t valued, killing the messenger has a much more powerful impact because they don’t know if that person is a decision maker or not.
advillious@reddit
education is very highly valued in palestine and we have one of the highest literacy rates in the world
https://www.newarab.com/News/2018/9/6/Palestine-has-one-of-the-highest-literacy-rates-globally
we already know that nobody is safe. they’re slaughtering over 100 a day for years now. this comment makes no sense.
meister2983@reddit
No to be glib but a 6 year old can read and write.
The PISA scores are 366. It has among the lowest scores in the world.
Leshawkcomics@reddit
Not every 6 year old.
There are even many 10 year olds who have trouble reading.
meister2983@reddit
Sure, some people have mental disabilities. My point is that PISA scores say a lot more about how educated your society is than some stat that is over 85% in any vaguely functional society.
Leshawkcomics@reddit
‘Mental disability’
Damn, you really think im talking about that huh.
If anything that tells me that whatever metric youre using doesn’t actually matter irl
meister2983@reddit
Pisa scores? Those correlate quite well to everything. High ones are generally places you'd want to live.
Israel for the record is about tied with Turkey, correctly reflecting how a large numbers of people in both those countries can't critically think. But fortunately for them, much less than say Palestine
Leshawkcomics@reddit
I think "Israel" is a bigger factor to whether it's a good idea to live in palestine than Pisa scores.
Especially since if you insist on using that as a metric, Israel bombing every school is an active attack on those scores.
Can't really get a good education when your schools, homes, childrens footbal games, etc get bombed.
meister2983@reddit
We're only discussing whether the society is educated or not, not whose fault it is.
For the record, Palestine is barely below Jordan, so I suspect Israel isn't that much of the ultimate cause.
Leshawkcomics@reddit
Damn, you mean the other adjacent nation to the destabilizing colonizing force also has issues?
I wonder why...
meister2983@reddit
Good hypothesis. Spain is clearly driving down Morocco (slightly below Jordan). Saudi Arabia fortunately is protected from these European colonizers and gets a whopping 390, almost reaching Mexican level.
Not sure how Estonia manages a 520 next to Russia, but that's for another day.
advillious@reddit
that's a good point. the rest of us should be slaughtered then you win.
HackPhilosopher@reddit
Oh okay.
Literate and well educated people are supporting Hamas. Got it!
Conflating literacy with education is not a good standard for the modern world.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/282293791_Norms_for_the_Standard_Progressive_Matrices_in_the_Gaza_Strip
grand_historian@reddit
This is a disgusting comment. The Palestinian people have been heavily oppressed for multiple generations now. Malnutrition has been common for generations as well. And here you are, with your race science trying to portray Palestinians as mentally retarded.
Utterly disgusting.
namikazeiyfe@reddit
Lol... This is just straight up bullshit claim because prior to the war, Palestinians were having a high number of obese people
grand_historian@reddit
Malnutrition doesn't have anything to do with the amount of kcals on its own; that is just a part of it. And also the easiest part to fix. The nutrition of the food that they get is much more important. Do they get enough protein, fiber, minerals, vitamins etc.
As a Nigerian you should know better.
Leshawkcomics@reddit
Can confirm, I'm from Tanzania in East Africa and we learned that malnutrition takes form in other ways than just thinness.
If you have a diet of nothing but mars bars and never had any calcium growing up, you might be fat but you'd also be malnourished, you'd probably have rickets and the like.
What is the west African education system like if they don't know this?
grand_historian@reddit
Threads like this are full of zionist bots. If you look through the post history of that "Nigerian" you will quickly reconsider whether he is actually an African at all.
namikazeiyfe@reddit
Prior to the war they were a well fed people, that's a fact! There was never a report of mass malnutrition in Gaza prior to Oct 7.
advillious@reddit
this is a lie
https://imeu.org/article/putting-palestinians-on-a-diet-israels-siege-blockade-of-gaza
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-19391809
Sad-Broccoli@reddit
'More than 60% of American Gen Z support Hamas over Israel'
advillious@reddit
why would supporting the right to resist against a brutal colonial occupier make you uneducated to begin with? this assumption makes no sense.
44%+ of 18-24 year olds were enrolled in higher education. this is a remarkable stat given the state of the strip leading up to the genocide.
https://thisweekinpalestine.com/education-in-gaza/
meister2983@reddit
Wanting to build statehood or opposing Israeli policy does not imply a lack of education by any means.
Supporting Hamas as a way to do so does suggest some serious lack of critical thinking.
If I controlled Palestinian society, I could have solved this problem in about 3 years:
HackPhilosopher@reddit
How many of the people in higher education are pro hamas?
aDrThatsNotBaizhu@reddit
You: but khamas
HackPhilosopher@reddit
This entire thread is about Hamas and the killing of its members.
I made the point that its target audience does not value higher education and killing the media personality for Hamas is a good thing to show low educated people that being a Hamas supporter gets you killed.
User comments to claim all of Palestine does value it.
I try to bring it back to the topic on hand by asking how many higher educated people support Hamas.
You: why are you talking about Hamas??
platp@reddit
Israel is the enemy of humanity. It has proven this fact repeatedly for decades and especially in this genocide. And that should make people realize that the previous and current demonization and terror labeling of their enemies whom resist them, should not be taken to be true without considerable consideration. If some evil entity terrorize your people all the time, are you really a terrorist if you inflict some of the suffering back to those who terrorize you? That is something that needs to be talked because Israel is never punished by international order for its crimes against humanity.
The understanding that every war crime should be taken individually and no war crime is acceptable even if it is against other war crimes relies on the assumption that every war crime will be punished by international order. But if the people you resist against don't get punished for doing again and again war crimes against you, what are you supposed to do?
advillious@reddit
it doesn’t matter who you support, israel will kill you regardless. they’re slaughtering over 100 people a day, you really think they’re scoping out their political views first?
Tricky_Weight5865@reddit
Dont go against the narrative, silly! You can only do that in other conflicts on this sub, not for this one.
Federal_Thanks7596@reddit
So do you think the same should apply to people who work with the Israeli goverment? I'd say that killing non-combatants is wrong in every case.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/2-shot-fbi-field-office-washington-dc/story?id=122059162
Empty-Development298@reddit
Wasn't Abu Obeida the guy who said that Hamas would kill a hostage everytime Palestine civilians were killed?
platp@reddit
How many hostages did Israel kill? Is anybody keeping count? They have raped people to death in their hostage camps. So considering you are against the killing of hostages, you are against the barbaric practices of Israel and you surely want them defeated by humanity to end their reign of evil, right?
Empty-Development298@reddit
Do I support Israel? No.
Do I support Hamas? Hell no.
Is it valid for Israel to rape civilians or combatants? No.
Is it valid for Israel to kill hostages? No.
Is it valid for Hamas to rape civilians or combatants? No.
Is it valid for Hamas to kill hostages? No.
Do I believe it's right for Abu Obeida to advocate a hostage killed for each Palestinian civilian causality? No.
Do Palestinians deserve to be suffering severely decreased quality of life due to the choices of their government? No.
Is it valid for Palestinians to be targets because Hamas forces are present? No. Many palestinian civilians who can't/won't evacuate have no choice or method to avoid getting harmed.
I believe the war should end as soon as possible, I feel terrible for all the civilians caught in the crossfire, much more humanitarian relief should be allowed through with international oversight.
Hamas should surrender as soon as possible to limit Palestinian casualties. Hamas should also be wearing identifiers the way Russia and Ukraine do in the UA-RA war to attempt to limit civilian casualties.
platp@reddit
Israel need to be defeated as soon as possible for the genocide to end. You say you don't support Israeli atrocities yet you still support the evil regime to exist and keep going. Why should Hamas need to surrender and not Israeli regime?
I mean this is just Israeli genocide propaganda. You are not fooling anyone when you keep blaming the killings on Palestinian resistance rather than Hamas. The killings are not happening because Israel confuses Palestinian civilians for armed resistance. It keeps happening because they want to kill Palestinians. They have killed 3 unarmed, top naked hostages in Palestine because they didn't realize it was not Palestinian civilians. They didn't confuse them for armed resistance, they knew they were unarmed.
Hamas wearing identifiers would do nothing to stop Israel doing genocide. How many attacks were there on aid lines to make Israel kill thousands of unarmed people there?
Empty-Development298@reddit
If Israel was the one on the losing side of this war, I would absolutely agree. It doesn't seem that way. To me, it looks like Israel has the more established and recognized army.
If Palestine has the same military capacity to wage war against Israel, then by all means, continue fighting. I don't live in either place, both countries are free to make their own decisions on deciding whether this war is worth continuing.
I didn't even know who israel was until the war started on october 7th.
I'm not going to defend a claim saying I support them, when I specifically said I don't. If you want to think that somehow, from my comment, that I support israel for calling out their spokesperson who says he supports 1 for 1 murders of civilians, than be my guest. Your argument is really not convincing in anyway shape or form to suddenly support Palestine more. If anything, it makes me less sympathetic.
If Hamas was in charge of my country, I would have demanded they resign immediately. I have no idea why they should be allowed to run my country into the ground because they provoked another country.
I think civilian casualties should be limited as much as possible, period. How does not wearing identifiers help to reduce civilian casualties?
Saying that Hamas should wear identifiers is to reduce confusion on who is a valid military target and who is not. That should be the bare minimum requirement in any conflict.
Ukraine and Russia wear identifiers, despite Russia denying that they are in a war; instead under special military operations. Why would Ukraine wear identifiers if they're the ones resisting an invasion?
Does wearing identifiers benefit Ukrainian troops? Not really, because they're easier to spot and target, yet it helps to limit civilian casualties and give Russians the correct targets to focus on. Whether Russia does so or not at that point, is their prerogative.
Are you...stupid or something?
I didn't blame any killings on "Palestinian resistance" this is *your* biases that are playing into the conversation, not mine.
You don't believe Hamas should wear identifiers, then you get mad that civilians are getting killed? Fine. Weird hill to die on, but it is your choice.
OK.
That's terrible.
You can't have it both ways. Either you accept that Hamas should be wearing military identifiers, or you accept that actively choosing not to show signs of military affiliation can cause civilian casualties due to the confusion.
WallyWestJest@reddit
wearing identifiers wouldnt make a single difference, israel justifies its murders of every man, woman, child, elder and any other non-combatants no matter what. thats how they've always operated. how this "war" (expansionist ethnic cleansing campaign and wholesale genocide) has continued for nearly 2 years and your still somehow unaware of that really shouldnt be baffling to me, but here we are. the series of questions in your previous post ultimately led you to the typical outcome of liberal waffling. "both sides bad. death bad. both sides bad. but Hamas this, but Hamas that. Hamas. Hamas. Hamas. just stop fighting for your dignity and give up since israel will kill you." israel was murdering, thieving, imprisoning, raping and destroying long before Hamas even existed. a thinking man would piece together that zionism, and israel being its byproduct, is the common denominator in all of this. israel is the source for all of this grief and the fundamental root cause that prompts the rise of Hamas as the coinciding effect.
Empty-Development298@reddit
I didn't even know who israel was until the war started, when Hamas invaded on Oct 7th. I'm not going to defend a claim saying I support them, when I specifically said I don't.
Are you...stupid or something? This has nothing to do with Israel, and everything to do with making sure it's obvious who is fighting who. I'm not even from the middle east, I couldn't put where Israel OR Hamas is on a map, nor could I care less. Me saying that Hamas should wear identifiers is to reduce confusion on who is a valid military target and who is not.
What. You're probably way more personally invested in this war than I ever will be. If you support Hamas, then go for it. If you support Palestinian resistance, than go for it. I don't care.
The killings are not happening because Israel confuses Palestinian civilians for armed resistance. It keeps happening because they want to kill Palestinians.
insitnctz@reddit
That's good and all, but you forget the end goal of zionism which is the great Israel. I mean even if hamas stepped down, they would find some other reason to commit genocide and annex Gaza, because that's literally what zionism is about. With madman like smoltrich, Ben gvir etc in the government, who are all far right extremist zionists there is no way one can believe that hamas is nothing more than a pretext to this war.
And the best example is west bank. No hamas there, but settlers and the idf roam around causing mayhem slowly colonizing the lands.
Thing is, no country that is part of the great Israel is safe. Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Libya and even Iran will soon dace war as well, and some already do(Syria).
That being said, I'm not advocating for hamas, but it's good to see why hamas exists in the first place, and the reason is because of the constant oppression of Israel. All these militias exist for that reason.
If zionism isn't eliminated there will be no peace there. Theocratic states like Iran and radical terror groups should follow after that since they are all result of Israel's constant warfare and mossad's destiballizinng tactics and espionage.
meister2983@reddit
That doesn't produce any credible deterrent effect. Probably the opposite
MuscleStruts@reddit
You know that Palestinians have family libraries, right? And there are universities in Gaza? Or were, until Israel blew them up.
HackPhilosopher@reddit
It’s only racist if you are engaging with it in bad faith.
Of course Gaza has libraries and education. It doesn’t stop the fact that hamas’s target demographic is low information uneducated citizens.
It’s incredibly sad what has happened to the country. It’s amazing what the people were able to endure from their government and still raise literacy rates.
That doesn’t negate the fact that their education is severely lacking behind western countries and it is a breading ground for Hamas.
platp@reddit
Western countries are colonies who never paid their debt to the people they have wronged. Currently, there is an alarming support going on for a live genocide in western countries. You are delusional when you imply western countries have high education therefore they wouldn't support war crimes or terrorist entities. Because they absolutely do support such things in an alarming scale.
Tresspass@reddit
Yeah maybe we shouldn’t have killed Isis administration positions, or their sharia court judges.
themightycatp00@reddit
Your comment and some of the replies prove that it doesn't matter what Israel does you'll always try to frame it like it's a bad thing, it's not like he's some angel this was the guy who just recently said hamas will intentionally keep Israeli hostages at the fighting zone next to their terrorists.
This guy was the "face" (not really because he hid his face for most of his career) and the voice of the military wing of hamas, and he was an adult who knew the risks of associating with the military wing of a terrorist organisation but still chose to take that risk
Plenty of hamas' leaders in exile have made media statements which are combative, there are still people to point out.
Leshawkcomics@reddit
But it is a bad thing.
They literally kill people for waiting in aid lines. Or for distributing aid, or for existing near a camera.
Mocking Israel? Threatening and sword rattling? Bro people mock israel and every OTHER country every day on the internet. The US president makes terrorist spokespeople look like reasonable adults. Its not a death-penalty thing, and the fact you’re trying to make it one is horrifying.
Killing the “Face” of hamas isnt some righteous and misunderstood action. Trying to use that as a justification really puts into perspective how unjustified the kind of thing they have been doing every day is.
Its like if a child molestor said “Well my last victim was a bully, i guess it doesnt matter what i do, youll always frame it as a bad thing”
themightycatp00@reddit
He wasn't killed in any of these incidents
But they aren't doing it as hamas officials
If you think killing soldiers is unjustified then where is the criticism when hamas does it?
namikazeiyfe@reddit
You might want to sit this one out, you sound completely ignorant the more you comment.
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
What reason is there to kill high ranking members of your enemies fighting force... is that a joke?
Stubbs94@reddit
If an Israeli government spokesperson was assassinated by Hamas, would you say it was warranted too?
themightycatp00@reddit
he wasn't a government spokesperson, he was literally the spokesperson for spokesperson for the Ezzedeen al-Qassam Brigades, the military wing of Hamas
Stubbs94@reddit
Still isn't a valid target. Unless you think spreading propaganda is the equivalent of fighting. Then the IOF spokesperson should be blown the fuck up too.
themightycatp00@reddit
A uniformed man working for an armed organisation? I couldn't think of a more classic example of a target, as a matter of fact that's of of the reasons soldiers wear uniforms to let the other side know they're a target.
I think that psychology warefare literally has "warfare" in it's name.
If they could get to him, which I doubt, sure. He's a valid target.
Sad-Broccoli@reddit
"International humanitarian law, or the law of war, prohibits any violence against individuals who are not taking part in hostilities, especially those who have surrendered or are otherwise unable to defend themselves."
https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/pt/customary-ihl/v2/rule47
themightycatp00@reddit
He inherently takes part in the hostilities by choosing to be employed by an armed organisation
Blarg_III@reddit
That would make every employee of the Israeli government (or any other government involved in a conflict) a legitimate target as well, so long as they have rules around dress and work directly for the state.
themightycatp00@reddit
No, government employees (expect for police officers and prison guards) don't wear uniforms and most of them don't work for an armed organisation.
Are you saying that a dress code is the same thing as uniforms?
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
no you see he is a member of hamas, so hes not a valid target. see how it works
themightycatp00@reddit
I swear to god the dude is about to argue hamas is an endangered species 🤣
860v2@reddit
You say this while supporting the side (Hamas) that does not abide by that standard. 🤦♂️
Mr_Smoogs@reddit
Joseph Goebbels was absolutely a valid target. Julius Streicher, publisher of “Der Sturmer” and a fellow propagandist, was convicted of war crimes at Nuremberg and subsequently hanged. Goebbels would have met a similar fate.
You can argue that propagandists shouldn’t be a valid target, but they are considered valid targets by western armies.
Blarg_III@reddit
Goebbels was probably not a legal target per the laws of war, and neither was Streicher. It doesn't matter that they were hung, being a legal target in wartime and being answerable to a military tribunal are two different criteria, one doesn't guarantee the other.
Mr_Smoogs@reddit
What makes you think so? The entire German high command was targeted.
Stubbs94@reddit
Children are also valid targets by Western armies. I wouldn't put much stock on what Western militaries believe when the IOF are classified as a "western military".
Mr_Smoogs@reddit
What exactly are you arguing? Propagandists are valid targets and have been tried, convicted and hung for their war crimes.
I think you are coping that these nazis shouldn’t have been? Why do you think so?
Stubbs94@reddit
Being tried for crimes against humanity is different than being targeted like this. This is a war crime, regardless of what you think. If he committed crimes against humanity, let him see international court alongside Bibi and the rest of the Israeli government.
Mr_Smoogs@reddit
The German high command was absolutely targeted like this lol
Stubbs94@reddit
You know this isn't world war 2 and Hamas aren't in anyway the same as the Nazis, and comparing them is fucking insane.
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
correct, nazis wore uniforms and were an organized state. Hamas are terrorists that hide behind civilians and take off their uniforms when it suits them.
Mr_Smoogs@reddit
Targeting the high command of your enemy is not a war crime. I think you want it to be one?
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
If they were a regular military? Absolutely. There could be reasonable proportional responses. Given that it takes lots of luck and timing for israel to take down such targets without you people wailing about war crimes from excess collateral, its not a fait comparison.
Stubbs94@reddit
Not every member of Hamas is a militant, it's a civil administration too. This guy wasn't a militant. So if this is okay, killing the Genocidal freaks you support would be okay too.
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
Every memeber of hamas is a terrorist. They are a terrorist organization woth the stated goals of world wide murder of jews.
HalfLeper@reddit
That is not their stated goal, from what I found when I went looking. Can you share a source where that’s true?
Sad-Broccoli@reddit
From the original 1988 charter:
"Under the wing of Islam, it is possible for the followers of the three religions - Islam, Christianity and Judaism - to coexist in peace and quiet with each other. Peace and quiet would not be possible except under the wing of Islam. Past and present history are the best witness to that."
https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp
And from the 2017 revised charter:
"Hamas rejects the persecution of any human being or the undermining of his or her rights on nationalist, religious or sectarian grounds. Hamas is of the view that the Jewish problem, anti-Semitism and the persecution of the Jews are phenomena fundamentally linked to European history and not to the history of the Arabs and the Muslims or to their heritage."
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hamas-2017-document-full
HalfLeper@reddit
Yeah, this is what did find.
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
Their founding charter article 7.
Blarg_III@reddit
If we're willing to accept that, why would a government in a war ever not simply declare their enemies terrorists to then allow themselves to attack civilian infrastructure indiscriminately?
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
Because the world, and Hamas, agrees they are terrorists.
Sad-Broccoli@reddit
The world agrees the IDF is a terrorist organization. And since they have mandatory conscription... doesn't that mean....
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
no they dont but nice try
Stubbs94@reddit
So some pen pusher in their agricultural department is a terrorist who should be murdered brutally?
This_Is_Fine12@reddit
Well is this person some pen pusher in thr ag department?
Stubbs94@reddit
Still not a valid target, just another in a long list of war crimes by the terrorist state of Israel. Fuck the IDF.
This_Is_Fine12@reddit
If you had the option to take out Goebbels are you saying it would have been a war crime to do so?
Mr_Smoogs@reddit
This was the leader of their propaganda arm.
flaamed@reddit
Yes? Dk you know what terrorist group means?
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
What part of terrorist organization is confusing for you. They are not a state, they are not covered by any conventions, and violate them with impunity. Eichman was just a pencil pusher and he was hung
CwazyCanuck@reddit
They have no stated goal of world wide murder of Jews. Please stop spreading misinformation to justify your genocide.
BackseatCowwatcher@reddit
Note that the 'civil' administration is heavily intertwined with the 'militant'- this ranges from the "Office of Martyrs, Wounded, and Prisoners"- doubling as the command center and organizer for suicide bombers and other terrorist attacks in Westbank- to the "Internal Security Force"- which is the police, the "secret" police, and Hamas's espionage agency.
Sad-Broccoli@reddit
source: I made it the fuck up
undernew@reddit
You are obviously lying, he was the military spokesperson.
Stubbs94@reddit
Was he an active combatant? If he wasn't, this was another Israeli terrorist attack.
undernew@reddit
That's not how it works, the IDF spokesperson would be a valid target in an armed conflict even if he doesn't directly participate in combat with a weapon.
Sad-Broccoli@reddit
No, actually that's exactly how it works.
"International humanitarian law, or the law of war, prohibits any violence against individuals who are not taking part in hostilities, especially those who have surrendered or are otherwise unable to defend themselves."
https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/pt/customary-ihl/v2/rule47
Stubbs94@reddit
That's not true, unless he was directly involved in hostilities like you know, an active member of the military he would be, but just being a spokesperson for a military wouldn't automatically make you a combatant, and I'm sure the genocide supporters would be calling it a travesty and a war crime if that happened to the IOF scumbag too.
Hyndis@reddit
The main spokesman for Israel is Admiral Daniel Hagari.
He's a valid military target because he's part of a government at war with another government, and because he's an admiral.
This is why governments go to great lengths to ensure security for their leadership personnel.
Stubbs94@reddit
I'm well aware of who that genocidal prick is. I hope he hangs if Israel ever gets it's Nuremberg trial.
Hyndis@reddit
Oh, my mistake. You're a moron.
SirStupidity@reddit
Daniel Hagari is not the main spokesman for Israel, he used to be the IDF spokesperson.
SirStupidity@reddit
Hi buddy, did you read the article? Abu Ubaida is not equivalent to an Israeli government spokesperson, he was the head spokesperson and in charge of the media of the Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades. You know, the military wing of Hamas, and yes, that's a valid target..
sight_ful@reddit
Of course not. It would be a terrorist attack!
Stubbs94@reddit
So then this is a terrorist attack too. Thanks.
hannes3120@reddit
Göbbels was a good guy because he just did the propaganda but nothing serious certainly is a wild take...
This sub is so hilariously one-sided in this war it's insane...
Feeling_Awareness394@reddit
the only way to navigate this sub without becoming crazy is if you stop taking these people seriously. Like when you see a drunk person in the street talking nonsense, this is the same here. I'm just glad those are just a very small minority
GetOutOfTheWhey@reddit
The Nation of Israel is running out of people to kill.
As we all know they consider kids Hamas, soon
I want to say that they are going to soon be justifying killing children. But they have already been doing that since day fucking one.
Bashin-kun@reddit
So they don't have a voice and the only argument is Israeli.
hunf-hunf@reddit
Do you think he’s the only member of Hamas capable of speech?
redelastic@reddit
Remember when Israel was "negotiating a ceasefire" and then assassinated the lead negotiator.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
It’s the special rules system Israel employs. If you kill the IDF spokesman then it’s a war crime. If you kill the Hamas spokesman then it’s a step forward for freedom or something.
Dry-Season-522@reddit
So someone actively going around on behalf of a terrorist group, with their full endorsement, speaking on their behalf and atetmpting to gather material and popular support, isn't a member of hamas and thus a valid target?
860v2@reddit
He’s part of a designated terrorist organization therefore he’s a legitimate target.
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Minimum-Enthusiasm14@reddit
It’s primarily symbolic. This guy was mocking Israel and threatening it and being the official mouthpiece for Hamas and etc. Now he’s been blown up.
Reddit_Sucks_1401@reddit
Bold of you to assume they have a reason, much less a gambit.
Wonderful-Year-7136@reddit
Kill all of Hamas members. Like the Houtis, the mullahs in Iran, Hezbos, the lot. And last time I've checked, even in actual armies, the spokesman is a militant as well.
Drab_Majesty@reddit
Hamas and Hezbollah social services, are they on your hit list too?
TommyTwoNips@reddit
Of course they are. They blew up kids with that beeper terrorist attack, they don't give a shit. They murder children every day, why would they think twice about murdering civil workers?
arab-xenon@reddit
Not only are they on the list, their homes, wives, children and third cousins are also on the list.
Everything is khamas, everything is khezbollah and Iran is still only three weeks from a nuclear weapon.
Greater Israel is the goal, Egypt and parts of Saudi are next.
RetardedGaming@reddit
We will see if that's true or not, after all the IOF famously doesn't do post-battle analysis. Still though, I'm baffled by how they keep doing decapitation strikes. That approach hasn't been successful for any front they opened outside MAYBE Hizbullah
azure_beauty@reddit
I'm sorry, is there any reason not to kill Hamas leadership?
icameow14@reddit
Lol literally anything Israel does will piss off people in this sub. Israel can’t do anything right in their eyes. We’re basically not allowed to kill our enemies (who are trying REALLY hard to kill US) and we’re not allowed to win any battle or war. If we do it must be by giving our enemies flowers and blowjobs.
Most of the people in this sub aren’t really mad about how Israel is winning, they’re just mad that their side is losing. Hamas has broken every single rule in the book as far as war and geneva convention goes. When they do it’s justified though. If Hamas had managed to assassinate the IDF’s spokesperson, they’d all be cheering and arguing about how being a military spokesperson absolutely makes you a valid target. Yet here we are. Coping so hard. Lol
Novarupta99@reddit
I think people just generally aren't happy when Nazis fight.
icameow14@reddit
The usage of the word Nazi here is extremely lazy and immature. Words have meanings. Dumbing down everything you don’t like to Nazi or genocide isn’t the gotcha you think it is, it just makes you seem like you have a very low level of understanding of what’s happening right now between Israel and palestinians.
Novarupta99@reddit
Most legal scholars are convinced that when the ICJ gives a verdict on genocide in 2027 or 2028 or whenever, it will inevitably be a gultly one. Why?
This is not the first time Israel has engineered a genocide against the Palestinian people either. Ariel Sharon and Peace For Galilee are still remembered.
icameow14@reddit
You don’t know what genocide actually means. 6 million jews systematically being burnt in ovens simply for being jews is a genocide. Palestinians dying because their governing body decided to torture, rape and murder 1200 jews and promised to do it over and over again while hiding under their own schools, hospitals, mosques and residential areas using tunnels built with the billions of dollars donated to them, is NOT genocide. It’s a suicidal war being fought by Hamas against a much stronger opponent. It’s Hamas doing everything in its power to maximize civilian casualties.
Like I said, you find a word you don’t like and then apply it to the side you hate the most for emotional manipulation and virtue signaling.
Sad-Broccoli@reddit
Can you explain how wiping out a population and stating that as the goal doesn't count as genocide?
icameow14@reddit
Wiping out? 50k out of 2 million is wiping out? Isnt it funny how the rate of death immensely slowed down the more Hamas was being killed? Almost feels like the target was Hamas, hmmm? Either that or one of the most advanced armies in the world is really, really bad at killing people. Do you people even hear yourselves?
Like I said, you don’t know what a genocide is.
Sad-Broccoli@reddit
Loool you can't be serious. The death toll hasn't slowed down. Israel keeps killing journalists and everyone that counts and reports the deaths. They also bombed every hospital which also makes it difficult to count the dead.
Not to mention the fact of what happens to babies who get hit with 2,000 pound bombs. Their bodies fucking disintegrate. Their limbs get obliterated. It's kind of difficult to count the dead when their body parts are unrecognizable. The remains of people have been scooped up from the ground and put in plastic bags because all that's left of them blood and globs of human flesh.
"Every baby, every child in Gaza is an enemy. The enemy is not Hamas." "We must occupy Gaza and not a single child should remain " - former Israeli Knesset member
A joint report by Oxfam and Action on Armed Violence in October 2024 found the Israeli military had killed more women and children in Gaza than in any other conflict around the world in the past two decades.
In December, Israel's military said it estimated two out of three (66%) of those killed to be civilians.
Israel's actions in Gaza meet 'legal definition of genocide,' scholars' association says
icameow14@reddit
Nice deflecting, classic pro-palestinian lack of integrity. Buzzwords and emotional maipulation is all you people know how to do. And when one flavour of hyperbolism is disproved you immediately hop on to the next.
You made a claim. Your claim was wrong. No one is taking you seriously when you use comparisons to nazism.
Sad-Broccoli@reddit
How is that deflecting? You brought up the death toll "slowing down" and I explained why it may seem like that.
What are the buzzwords and emotional manipulation that I used??? I just explained the reality. I'm sorry that describing the atrocities hurt your feelings.
You implied that they aren't targeting civilians and are just targeting Hamas. You're saying that it's hyperbole to call it a genocide and refer to them as Nazis. I provided links that prove otherwise.
How is it hyperbole to call it a genocide when genocide scholars and international human rights organizations all agree that it meets the legal definition of genocide?
How is it hyperbolic to call them Nazis? They torture Palestinians gleefully. They brag and laugh about killing children. Can you explain why it's so crazy to you to call them Nazis? Is it just because they haven't put 6 million of them in gas chambers? Just give it some time. We'll be there soon enough. The holocaust didn't happen overnight.
Novarupta99@reddit
Israel killed more civilians (>800) in any of their "Mowing the Lawn" massacres since 2008 than the Palestinian Resistance Movement did on Oct 7.
In fact, Palestinian massacres have long been bloodier. Just because the Zionists liked using proxies doesn't absolve them:
1,500 at Karantina.
<4,280 at Tal al-Za'tar.
3,500 at Sabra and Shatila.
I don't hear you crying for the men, women and children who were exterminated at these camps.
Sad-Broccoli@reddit
There is not a more accurate or appropriate word to describe the Israeli government.
icameow14@reddit
Ah yes, that’s why around the world you see nazi flags and people doing nazi salutes at pro-hamas street protests. The fucking irony.
Sad-Broccoli@reddit
Lol I've never seen that. Nazis aren't pro Palestine. Ironically Nazis are usually pro Israel (Elon musk for example). If it has happened it's probably Zionists doing a false flag
icameow14@reddit
Lol
https://www.jta.org/2024/07/30/sports/french-authorities-investigating-heil-hitler-chants-and-nazi-salutes-at-israel-paraguay-olympic-soccer-match/
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/donald-trump-nazi-jeremy-corbyn-metropolitan-police-palestine-solidarity-campaign-b2699098.html
Want more examples?
Also that’s fucking rich:
“Nazis aren’t pro-palestine”
LMAO actual Nazis collaborated with palestinian leaders in the 1940. The grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Hajj Amin Al-Husseini spoke directly with Hitler and tried to assemble a muslim SS division. Al-Husseini asked Hitler to help the arabs in opposing a jewish homeland to which Hitler fully agreed stating that the fight against jews was part of a greater struggle. Go online and see how many toxic comments are about wishing Hitler had finished the job. Go see the podcasts where people are starting to say things like “maybe the jews did something to deserve the holocaust in Germany.”
Please kindly shut the fuck up.
platp@reddit
It is a war crime.
azure_beauty@reddit
It is in no way illegal to kill enemy commanders, in fact decapitation strikes are a sound strategy to defeat an enemy military.
That said, I am still curious to hear your explanation for why it is actually morally bad, besides just claiming that it breaks the rules.
Novarupta99@reddit
There is a difference between operational commanders and civilian ministers. I'm not claiming Abu 'Ubayda was a civilian, but spokesmanship alone does not warrant combatant status, and from my browsing on Arabic sites, I've seen no indications he was actually part of any decision Making outside of Public Relations. "Incitement" does not give him combatant status either.
azure_beauty@reddit
Well you're wrong, he is a legitimate target, and I'm still waiting to hear why him being dead is a bad thing.
Mind you, the "public relations" you mention included torture of hostages, so forgive me if I don't cry about him being targeted.
Novarupta99@reddit
Again, you haven't proved he was a member of the Central Comittee or Politburo or Shura Council. Which he wasn't. Was he even ranked? Like I said, with the current evidence, he's no more a legitimate target than Kamal Nasser or Ghassan Kanafani.
And it's not it was him who was handling the hostages. Until proof is handed over to confirm he was an active combatant of the Kata3b al-Qassam, it's not as simple as "he's a terrorist."
azure_beauty@reddit
I don't need to prove that, he was directly involved with hamas, holding, torturing, and exploiting civilians for political benefit.
As one of the most recognizable names in Palestinian media, he was responsible for carrying out phycological warfare, misinformation, and actively coordinated a campaign of misinformation and violence to prevent gazans from evacuating to safe areas, which by all measures qualifies as commanding military actions, that is what he was doing. He was not some author or journalist.
platp@reddit
Actually he was against the ones who holds, tortures and exploits Palestinians. That is why he was killed by them.
Who among Israeli pshycological warfare, misinformation and actively coordinating a campaign of misinformation and violence to prevent Palestinians living would you say is not protected by law and is fair game since you say the same for Palestinians who you think are doing similar things?
I don't think this matters to Israel. In fact, Reporters are not only not protected, but targeted by the evil criminals.
Whentheangelsings@reddit
You can use the same logic the US did when they targeted Saddam Hussain even though doing that is illegal under US law. He's presenting himself as a combatant with his military uniform, so he's fair game.
Sad-Broccoli@reddit
"International humanitarian law, or the law of war, prohibits any violence against individuals who are not taking part in hostilities, especially those who have surrendered or are otherwise unable to defend themselves."
https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/pt/customary-ihl/v2/rule47
azure_beauty@reddit
Abu Obeida is not a civilian, he is not entitled to civilian protections.
Likewise, he was in no way hors de combat.
Whentheangelsings@reddit
Its been very successful with Hamas. You can compare how Hamas fought at the beginning of the war and how they fight now, plus how effectively they are governing the areas they control and see there is a massive difference.
The only reason Hamas is an organization is they just refuse to give up even though most of their fighters are untrained teenagers being led by the teenagers that survived.
SaneForCocoaPuffs@reddit
Fun fact: Abu Obeida always appears wearing the outfit in the picture.
Killing Abu Obeida is like killing Chewbacca. It’s not hard to find someone else to on the fursuit and take up the role
UtgaardLoki@reddit
No loss then, lol.
platp@reddit
But still a war crime, "lol".
UtgaardLoki@reddit
Not a war crime.
You really think there will be an ICJ or ICC suit over this? Lol
platp@reddit
That would only happen in a just world. Ours is not a just world. But we can still call war crimes, war crimes. But thinking about it, in a just world, Israel wouldn't exist so there would be no need for an ICJ or ICC case because this wouldn't have happened. Genocide wouldn't need to be talked about because in a just world, there wouldn't be millions of westerners and tens of western governments supporting ciriminals. And if they did, they would be defeated by humanity. No, I don't expect this war crime punished in this scum world.
UtgaardLoki@reddit
In your “just world”, every Jew in the eastern hemisphere is dead as are all the Holocaust survivors and whatever Jews the world locked out in the lead up to—and in the wake of—WWII.
Half the world’s Jews . . . “Justice”.
The ignorance is stunning. Get woke!
platp@reddit
You do understand I will not watch a youtube video. Especially from some genocide apologist who says a just world would lead to the death of jews. And implies that either jews are killed or they have to kill others like what currently is happening.
UtgaardLoki@reddit
You are literally saying that the Israel should have never become a state. That’s the obvious consequences of Israel not becoming a state.
It’s fine, nice even to wish that history didn’t play out as it did—that the Holocaust didn’t happen; that the Muslim world didn’t cleanse itself of Jews, that the world didn’t bar Jewish refugees from immigrating—but that’s what happened and the rest of your blockading is just excuses for genocide of Jews so that you can stand on the moral high ground of defending against fictitious “GeNoCidE”.
The very thing you want now—the dissolution of Israel—would also lead to exactly the same. An actual genocide. Which with what Hamas promises even now as they hold out surrender to keep nothing but their own power over the people of Gaza.
platp@reddit
Nope. Not at all. That is a genocider apartheid colonist propaganda. There is no truth in it.
Muslims have allowed jews to live in the lands they control for hundreds of years. They have even rescued jews from the Reconquista and allowed them to live in their lands. This is another genocide cult atrocity claim that jews migrated to Israel because muslims kicked them out.
Anyone who can talk like this about the extermination of people knows people are being exterminated but doesn't consider those people to be human. I am done entertaining some evil participater.
Yep. Currently a fake genocide of human animals going on. It would be actual genocide if those who are killing human animals, those chosen ones would be killed.
Disgusting genocide propaganda. One that is a slight to all humanity. But fear not, muslims have always allowed jews to live in their lands and after the criminals of genocide is judged in fair courts, they would again be allowed to live under muslim rule. Unlike what is happening under the jewish colonies rule.
Whentheangelsings@reddit
How is this a warcrime?
Thi_rural_juror@reddit
Well he had a pretty distinctive voice and a way with words. So no I don't think so.
Novarupta99@reddit
There are others with charisma. Have we not come to the point where more people know about Abu 'Ubayda than they do Ghassan Kanafani?
More importantly, he was meant to be replaceable. Aside from being masked, he bore the nom de guerre of one of Muhammed's companions, not a unique one. A name can be reused.
HeidelbergianYehZiq1@reddit
Was it he who commented the IDFs use of diapers? No matter who, it was calm, collected and matter-of-fact when it was wrapped up with the deadpan:
”Specifically Pampers.”
More_Net4011@reddit
Dude dedicated his life to resisting his oppressor. No medals, or fanfare, or being buried in a special cemetery. Resistance is thankless. Rest in Peace Rebel. The world might demonize you but some of us know the real.
Away_team42@reddit
He’s a terrorist, rest in piss 🤷♂️
More_Net4011@reddit
Everyone that takes up arms against Empire or it's proxies is a terrorist I know.
icameow14@reddit
Real life isn’t like Star Wars dude. Hamas’ cause isn’t noble, it’s extremist and genocidal (ACTUALLY genocidal). The underdog isn’t always the good guy, and the strong, prosperous one isn’t always the villain. Sometimes the good side wins. This is one of those times. Keep coping and crying for a literal terrorist who’s greatest wish was to repeat october 7th over and over, torturing, raping and murdering jews in their home. Just like Hezbollah, the Houthis and the terrible Iranian radical regime, Hamas is on its way out. Israel wins once again like it’s always won since its creation and it’ll keep winning. There’s nothing you can do about that.
More_Net4011@reddit
Sure. Foreign terrorists ceded half of their country an now oppress them, but resisting actual colonization is a bad thing according to you. We dont respect the same shit.
icameow14@reddit
Lmao colonization. Look at the god damn map. I swear you people just find a word you don’t like and then obsess over it while you virtue signal to everyone around you.
ThePlacidAcid@reddit
in a 1902 Theodore Herzl, the father of modern political Zionism sent a letter to Cecil Rhodes, in which he described the Zionist project as "something colonial". They only started pretending it wasn't when it became unfashionable to be colonialist.
icameow14@reddit
See my other comment on the matter. Colonization didn’t mean the same thing then.
ThePlacidAcid@reddit
LMAO thats fucking hysterical. If it didn't mean the same thing then why did they do exactly what all the other settler colonial countries did to form the state of Israel? They literally continue to expand their settlements and displace the native population in the west bank to this day.
icameow14@reddit
They literally did not do what every other settler colonial country did. British colonies have a “mother” land, britain. French colonies have France. Israel has? The creation of the state of Israel is unlike any other “colony” that’s ever been created. Jews had a continuous presence on that land for thousands of years. More jews came, period. From every corner of the world. Antisemistism was the basis for the creation of Israel and antisemistism is now the basis for its destruction.
No country decided to colonize another country in the case of Israel. Jews simply moved there to escape atrocities and possibly have a nation of their own where they could protect themselves. Palestine was a region. They weren’t invading a sovereign nation and try to conquer it. The british offered them part of it. That’s what the Balfour declaration was. This entire “colonization” was done with no ill will to anyone living there. Jews had no intention to kick anybody out and take their place, they just wanted to live in peace. Arabs decided there would be no jewish nation ever and lost. Where do you think most palestinians come from? Iraq, egypt, syria…etc. They came to palestine exactly the same way jews came. If you think jews colonized that land, so did palestinians. They didnt even call themselves palestinians until the late ‘70s.
ThePlacidAcid@reddit
LMAO. The Jews the founded Israel where not refugees or Holocaust victims. Jews moved to Israel with the explicit goal of displacing and removing the native population, in order to create a Jewish majority state in the region. They succeeded, however this required not only displacing 750 thousand Palestinians from Israel propper, but also concentrating them into the west bank and gaza, where they exist as a mass of stateless opressed people with no rights, being forced into an ever smaller area of land. If they resist they are slaughtered by the overwhelming military might of Israel.
Even if accept the narrative that the holocaust is why the jews had to move to Israel, it still doesn't justify the ethnic cleansing of the area. And it definitely doesn't justify the continued expansion, and displacement of Palestinians to this day. But Israel as a state operates on settler colonial logic. It won't stop till it manifests its destiny.
icameow14@reddit
Lol no. Had the arabs accepted the UN partition like the jews did, no one would’ve been displaced from their homes and today you’d have two countries, Israel and Palestine living side by side prosperously despite the words of either leaders back then. The reason the nakba happened is 100% because the arabs rejected the partition plan and 5 arab armies invaded in an attempt to destroy the newborn Israel and literally kill all the jews. “Push them to the sea” was the exact quote if I remember correctly.
Did you know that actions have consequences? It’s really amazing how you people act like Israel was evil and just came, started killing people and kicking them out of their homes while twirling their moustaches like some Disney villains.
ThePlacidAcid@reddit
"It’s really amazing how you people act like Israel was evil and just came, started killing people and kicking them out of their homes while twirling their moustaches like some Disney villains."
It's amazing that you literally describe this exact thing happening, and your only problem is that the Palestinians didn't just accept the best land in the country being stolen by a minority which their own state gets split into two enclaves. Also, Israel requires a Jewish majority, in an area where most people aren't jewish, which is why the Nakba would have happened regaurdless of whether the partition was accepted or not.
icameow14@reddit
Actually the jews got the negev and malaria infested lands. The arabs got the “best” parts of the partition.
20% of Israeli society is arab. Guess why? Because those arabs stayed and didnt try to kill jews. Those arabs didnt listen to their leaders when they told them to temporarily leave while they tried to kill all the jews. Remind me how many jews still live in arab countries? Right.
You people are fucking delusional. Complete absence of critical thought.
ThePlacidAcid@reddit
I'm just gonna respond with quotes now. Enjoy.
"tHe AraBs ShOuLd HaVe JusT gIven Up ThEir Land"
"If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?”
David Ben-Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister): Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp121.
"IsrAEl WouLdn't HavE coNtiNued ColoNisIng AfTer The fiRst biT oF ColONISatIoN"
“Every school child knows that there is no such thing in history as a final arrangement — not with regard to the regime, not with regard to borders, and not with regard to international agreements.”
— Ben Gurion, War Diaries, 12/03/1947 following Israel’s “acceptance” of the U.N. Partition of 11/29/1947 (Simha Flapan, “Birth of Israel,” p.13)
Partition: “after the formation of a large army in the wake of the establishment of the state, we will abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine “
— Ben Gurion, p.22 “The Birth of Israel, 1987” Simha Flapan.
"The acceptance of partition does not commit us to renounce Transjordan. One does not demand from anybody to give up his vision. We shall accept a state in the boundaries fixed today — but the boundaries of Zionist aspirations are the concerns of the Jewish people and no external factor will be able to limit them.” P. 53, “The Birth of Israel, 1987” Simha Flapan
"IsRaEl WoUlD AlLoW ArAbs If AraBs WheReNT AnTI-SeMeTiC"
Ben-Gurion in an address to the central committee of the Histadrut on 30 December 1947:
“In the area allocated to the Jewish State there are not more than 520,000 Jews and about 350,000 non-Jews, mostly Arabs. Together with the Jews of Jerusalem, the total population of the Jewish State at the time of its establishment will be about a million, including almost 40 percent non-Jews. Such a [population] composition does not provide a stable basis for a Jewish State. This [demographic] fact must be viewed in all its clarity and acuteness. With such a [population] composition, there cannot even be absolute certainty that control will remain in the hands of the Jewish majority…. There can be no stable and strong Jewish State so long as it has a Jewish majority of only 60 percent.”
Stop with your revisionist bullshit. Information about the nature of Israel as a state, it's goals, ambitions, and reasons for its actions are not illusive or complicated. You call it comically evil, which is funny because I haven't misrepresented a damn thing. Go think critically yourself, literally everything you've claimed is incorrect, and is purely the result of Israeli propaganda.
icameow14@reddit
Lmao I can also use quotes from the other side and they’re way worse than this. If you wanna keep quoting from dudes 100 years ago, go ahead. Actions are worth more than words. Some jewish leaders may have said those things but at the end of the day they wanted to live peacefully. Arab leaders on the other hand expressed incredibly genocidal intentions and they actually attempted multiple times to follow through. Your quotes are useless.
ThePlacidAcid@reddit
Ben-Gurion is LITERALLY THE FOUNDER OF ISRAEL, and was in charge of the country at the time of the events that you're trying to write revisionist history about. Its not just some dude from 100 years ago lmfao, its the fucking guy who was in charge of the events we're discussing.
The way you think that Palestinians also being reactionary is any justification for this is crazy. Clearly Israel is the aggressor, the founder of the country knows it, the father of modern political Zionism knows it, literally anyone with a brain would know it. If you had your country stolen in its entirety, and where then subject to brutal marshal law in small and ever shrinking enclaves, I'm sure you'd have some strong things to say about the people doing it too.
icameow14@reddit
There was no country to steal. Palestine was a region. Jews were there and had as much right to have a nation as the arabs. They wanted to share, not steal it. Like I said, your quotes are useless. History shows how jews wanted to share and arabs decided to attempt a genocide and destroy the idea of a jewish country. Also the occupation and “oppression” of Palestinians only started after Israel won back the west bank from jordan and gaza from egypt after yet another attempt by arabs to destroy Israel. The west bank and gaza, which Israel tried to give back never attempted to have a country while they were under arab ownership.
So no, stop acting like arabs were these poor, poor victims that never did anything wrong and just got their land stolen and have been oppressed ever since. It is you who is being the revisionist. They had multiple chances to live peacefully and they chose violence each time. Oppressed people usually don’t have a choice in the matter of their oppression. Jews were being massacred everywhere in the world including Palestine and what they did was shake it off and build one of the most prosperous and advanced countries in the world. Palestinians built tunnels and blow themselves up. Palestine, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Iran, Yemen are war stricken, dysfunctional countries that have contributed nothing but terrorism and radicalism to the world including the last 50 years. Keep coping. Israel is going nowhere. Enjoy your 100 years old quotes.
ThePlacidAcid@reddit
Wheres your historical evidence of your assertions? I've given you quotes from the guy in charge of these things. I can give you more from other important people at the time if you want to keep getting proven wrong lmao.
Anyways I'm glad you've gone mask off. No point having a convo with someone so fuckin racist and hateful lmao. The least you could do is stop pretending your baseless propaganda driven assertions are anything other than that.
More_Net4011@reddit
i aint reading all that shit FREE PALESTINE
icameow14@reddit
Ah yes, there it is. The inevitable conclusion one reaches when arguing with a anti-Israel person. Palestine is free, it’s called Israel. Your slogans are useless.
More_Net4011@reddit
Yes I'm anti the country that is occupying mine an has killed my friends. I support all efforts against the genocidal nazis you support.
icameow14@reddit
You realize Israel only attacked Lebanon because Hezbollah started shooting missiles at Israel on October 8th in their attempt to support the “Al-Aqsa Flood” by Hamas right? You do realize that both these attacks were done hoping that other arab countries would join and help destroy Israel and kill all the Israelis? Do you not see the irony here? Do you not see the projection? Calling Israel genocidal when its just defending itself against an actual genocide attempt is beyond ridiculous. Hezbollah and Hamas killed MY friends. Egypt and Jordan understood that if you don’t attack Israel, we don’t attack you. Maybe you’re the problem?
HourEast5496@reddit
Your own lord-znazi called it the colonization plan of Palestine. Another terrorist Zio from Poland, ben whatever Gaurion, said that they were colonizing the land of Palestine and will face resistance because that was the natural consequence of colonization.
But, you go ahead and lie as much as you can since it's your oxygen
icameow14@reddit
Colonization didn’t have the same meaning nor the negative connotation it has today. Colonization simply meant populating. Moving to a land and making a life there. When jews migrated to the region of palestine at the beginning of the 20th century, they didn’t kick anyone out of their homes, they simply bought land in existing coties and built homes or they built villages that didnt exist before. Most of Palestine was empty, half of Israel today is basically a desert.
Jews were refugees, getting killed or kicked out everywhere in the world, including arab countries. Calling the establishment of Israel vulgar colonization as if the intent behind it was somehow evil is a gross misunderstanding of history. Seems like ignorance is your oxygen.
Sad-Broccoli@reddit
Palestine wasn't empty. Everything you said is complete bullshit.
icameow14@reddit
Did I say it was empty? I said mostly. Which is true. The population in the early 20th century was around 600,000 people. Today it’s 14 million and it’s STILL kind of empty. A very quick research on your end would tell you that im absolutely right. Maybe try doing that before jumping in?
HourEast5496@reddit
Lol! Zios lie and lie and lie until they get caught into it, and then they lie some more to hide their previous lies... and then cry victim and swipe antisemitic card furiously.
Earlier, you were lying that Azrael is not colonization, and now you're saying..... it is, but not the way you think it is.... back in the days it wad a hipster thing to do to steal land, resources, pillage and rape etc and then lie about all of it.
Just a news for you, colonizers and colonization always had a bad rep about it because the people you colonized, slaughtered, steal from, rape and tortured them is always hated and frowned upon and always will be called bad no matter how you sugarcoat it or how you keep reciting on top of your lungs that your sky-daddy promised you and allowed you to be criminal toward others.
No one, and I mean no one outside of Znazis, colonizers, and their a$$kisser circle-jerk believe in this pathetic lie you just posted .
Whentheangelsings@reddit
Parading the dead body of German tourists you got from massacring a music festival isn't resistance.
More_Net4011@reddit
She was given medical assistance and died probably killed by an Israeli Apache like so many were at the Nova Fest.
Whentheangelsings@reddit
First off there was no helicopter at that festival. We have footage of exactly what happened. Hamas paradropped into the festival and shot up the place.
2nd even if that was true why was Hamas parading her through the streets? We have the footage that they themselves have published.
More_Net4011@reddit
Uhhh you dont think Apaches fired on people fleeing the Nova Fest? You obviously are uninformed.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-18/ty-article/.premium/israeli-security-establishment-hamas-likely-didnt-have-prior-knowledge-of-nova-festival/0000018b-e2ee-d168-a3ef-f7fe8ca20000
Last month Haaretz reported that the military helicopter arrived at the site of the festival and opened fire on the Hamas fighters but also shot several festival participants. Some Israeli forces also "decided to use artillery shells" against Hamas "independently, without getting permission from their superiors," it reported.
https://trt.global/world/article/16146635
Why speak on shit you not informed about goofy?
Whentheangelsings@reddit
Your reply got auto deleted
More_Net4011@reddit
i trust haaretz over factchecker.com so no point going further with you
Whentheangelsings@reddit
It basically says the same thing bro
Whentheangelsings@reddit
That link is paywalled but I was able to find other sites talking about the same incident. There were a handful of Israelis shot at that music festival by the helicopter by accident. As far as we can tell they were a small minority. Hamas is almost definitely the ones that killed her since you know THEY WERE MASSACRING PEOPLE AT THE MUSIC FESTIVAL!
https://www.factcheck.org/2023/11/social-media-posts-misrepresent-video-of-idf-aircraft-attack/
And I'm going to ask you again. Why were they parading her lifeless body through the streets.
More_Net4011@reddit
Ill trust Haaretz as the only reliable Israeli reporting site. I think we have different opinions on what parades are an you a genocide supporter so im done with you
feraleuropean@reddit
Only amerikkkan fascists would find your ludicrous lies credible, because one needs to be blinded by their own anachronistic and truly savage racism to find you credible.
You rabid, ...because you the same genocidal land thief line israhell and now don't even pretend not to be hysterically violent and nothing more.
Sad-Broccoli@reddit
They didn't parade shit. Nothing in that video shows "parading". You should see the sick shit Israelis do to corpses
Whentheangelsings@reddit
Sure this isn't parading at all
https://youtu.be/Xd6fUOCACPU?si=BQ0J_QDjQDrwfLEV
ImAjustin@reddit
Na that dudes a demon and deserves to be demonized. He’s in a warmer place now as they like to say
HourEast5496@reddit
Sounds like Benjamin Melkowski and many Azraeli, British, and American leaders.
FIFY.
More_Net4011@reddit
Al Qassem Brigades is 85% orphans. If your occupier orphaned your goofy ass I know you might run away, but people like Abu Obeida took up arms an fought back. I respect it more than I respect a genocide supporting goofball like you.
ImAjustin@reddit
lol oh why are they orphans? I wonder why hmmm? Bc their parents were also such strong freedom fighters also! They really are doing such a good job losing yet another war. Keep em coming!
xoxosydneyxoxo@reddit
But I thought "the entire world is with Palestine"?
Are the evil zionists everywhere or are they nowhere? It's starting to sound like schizophrenia tbh.
HKEY_LOVE_MACHINE@reddit
Gotta love how so many foreign activists aren't hiding the fact that they fully support Hamas now.
This comments section shows why the two-state solution isn't getting any support among foreign activists: they can more about the destruction of Israel, than the future of Palestinians in their own state.
Quite the priorities: willing to throw palestinians into more endless wars killing thousands and legitimizing the Likud for israelis in the process, just for the few israelis that will be killed in the process.
ThePlacidAcid@reddit
You should support armed resistance to a genocide, regardless of how reactionary the politics of that resistance may be. Not supporting this resistance, means you think the population being genocided should just roll over and die. The British government committed unimaginable atrocities, yet I would support their fight against Hitler in WW2.
HKEY_LOVE_MACHINE@reddit
The Nazis claimed to be resisting against the Jewish Conspiracy plotting against aryan people.
ISIS claimed to be resisting against the apostasy of the West/Assad.
Hamas claims to be resisting against the oppression of the IDF, and now its genocide.
Everyone can claim to be resisting, it doesn't make it any true or legitimate.
As for Hamas, it is particularly ridiculous to portray them as resisting when they are a million miles away from having the intent and capacity of resisting.
If this was about stopping the current conflict and genocide, they would have released all these useless hostages 2 years ago to deny Netanyahu a casus belli. They would have publicly renounced terrorism and endorsed a guerilla movement instead, striking only IDF forces instead of going after civilians.
They did not do any of that, instead they continued to feed Netanyahu geopolitical excuses to keep the conflict going, which allowed him to continue this war without being evicted from power.
Hamas is the #1 ally of Netanyahu, which is why he's been making sure the qatari money was still reaching them, years after years.
Anyone supporting Hamas is literally supporting Netanyahu, the Likud and the israeli settlers: they're the two sides of the same coin.
Hamas is not preventing the starvation of Gaza at all.
Instead, they're still doing the same thing they've been doing for the last 20 years: serving reasons for the IDF to kill more palestinians.
The genocide is being done through starvation, what could save palestinians would be food for the 2 millions.
Hamas is not sending the food through its tunnels, instead the population is banned from using them for shelters or transporting food. Tunnels remain filled with weapons and rockets.
Hamas could send the hostages home, to get the blockade to stop and the hundreds of food trucks to roll in Gaza like they used to do. They refuse to do so, preferring to let Gaza starve over their useless hostages.
Hamas is equipped with countless firearms and still has thousands of men, they still control most areas with civilians. They should distribute the food and prevent theft. They refuse to do that, allowing mass theft to occur and price-gouging reselling by armed gangs (that are totally not affiliated with Hamas, somehow, despite Hamas controlling Gaza for the last two decades and brutally eliminating any competitor).
Supporting Hamas in 2025 is supporting Netanyahu and his evil starvation genocide.
Palestine should be free: free from the Likud, free from Hamas.
ThePlacidAcid@reddit
Claim of resistance obviously doesn't make it true, however when an illegal occupier with overwhelming military might is literally trying to annex your entire homeland and displace the civilian population, than obviously you're resisting a genocide.
If you think releasing all the hostages would end the war you're fucking delusional lmao. It's never been about anything to do with the hostages. The war aim is to rid Gaza of hamas control, which actually means ridding Gaza of any armed resistance to Israeli occupation, which means Gaza will end up like the west bank - Divided by Israeli settlements and its people displaced.
Hamas also isn't the only force in the Palestinian resistance. There are many groups and armed factions that all fight with the same goal - To prevent Israel from occupying and ethnically cleansing the Gaza strip. If they did not exist, Israel would have undoubtably done this by now. They're literally openly trying too, and the only reason they can't is because of the armed resistance. Palestinians in Gaza are losing their support for Hamas, but they do continue to support armed resistance, and its because if they did not have it there then gaza would have already been conquered by now.
HKEY_LOVE_MACHINE@reddit
The point is to deny legitimate reasons - casus belli - for Netanyahu to keep the conflict going.
Keeping all these hostages, for 2+ years, allowed Netanyahu to very easily convince the israeli society that the war needed to continue.
Hamas had no reason to keep them any longer: the IDF was turning the whole of Gaza into ruins, they weren't willing to negotiate a peaceful exchange, the war was already started.
The hostages weren't preventing the IDF from using their whole arsenal of weapons either: heavy bombs, artillery and missiles have been used since 2023.
If Hamas were actually resisting and working for the people of Gaza (and not the IRGC), they would have released these hostages within the first 6 months, and the conflict would have been over by the end of 2024 with only sporadic skirmishes.
It 100% was for the israeli society past the first 6 months, when most israelis saw the destruction of Gaza as enough revenge for the 7th october massacre. Hamas keeping these hostages past this point was serving a reason on a silver platter, for Netanyahu to continue the war without risking an internal political crisis.
Not for Netanyahu, who always supported Hamas, as they're the best obstacle standing in front of the Palestine state solution.
The armed forces of Gaza turning towards a guerilla and a political unity, would immediately support all the geopolitical forces supporting a Palestinian state.
By sticking to terrorism, and putting the "destruction of Israel" as their #1 priority, the ruling forces of Gaza - since 2006, Hamas - are directly preventing a Palestine state from existing.
The West Bank is being tossed around because they've fallen to corruption, but the PA was very close to achieving statehood before Hamas and Netanyahu ruined it all.
Ha ha! You really believe the competing factions all have the same goal? Explain why the Hamas has been brutally executing them then, and calling them traitors.
That's not the goal of Hamas. Their objectives are pretty clear, as stated in their founding texts, and it's the complete destruction of Israel. There is nothing about defending Gaza and its inhabitants, it's calling for the destruction of their enemies over and over.
Do you seriously believe that Hamas, a terrorist organization that can barely launch a few attacks every other month, is the reason why the thousands of artillery guns, hundreds of bombers, hundreds of tanks, of the IDF, haven't flatened 100% of Gaza yet?
The IDF has had the power to completely wipe Gaza for decades, they haven't done so because: - the US didn't allow them to - politically, it wasn't feasible within the israeli political landscape (yet) - the Likud preferred to keep it as a threat (with Hamas ruling it) to stay in power
You can't be serious, right?
Do you understand that wiping Gaza and ethnically cleansing it is done using:
indirect fire = something Hamas cannot stop, no matter what they do, they simply do not have the means to stop artillery shells, bombs and missiles.
starvation, by besieging the area = Hamas cannot and haven't been able to break through the siege, they simply do not have the manpower nor the firepower to break through the IDF lines.
Hamas is completely powerless, and their hostages are completely useless, they really have nothing to gain from remaining in denial about their military defeat.
Any legitimate resistance would have released these hostages and agreed to renounce to terrorism, and negotiate the terms of their surrender, calling for international actors to put pressure on Netanyahu. They did none of that.
Hamas is pretty much like Imperial Japan troops on isolated islands in WW2: they've already lost the military war, there is no reality where they would win this war - the only reason they haven't surrendered is because of a fanatical devotion to the Empire and a religious dedication to martyrdom.
They support armed forces because they haven't anything else to latch onto and have been living a conflict for their entire life - that doesn't mean they wouldn't support a guerilla that would negotiate a Palestinian statehood and ultimately, stability of the borders and a possible peace.
Hamas is blocking that. Supporting Hamas is literally preventing Palestinians from having a future.
ThePlacidAcid@reddit
My friend you believe a lot of propaganda. It's quite hard to unpack all this but ima give it my best shot lmao.
For starers, Hamas as a group does not seek the destruction of Israel, and is actually willing to accept a two state solution. The groups messaging also say nothing about jews, and only speaks of Zionism as an enemy. The charter you are referring too is older and more reactionary than their current charter. Israel is a signifcantly bigger barrier to a two state solution than Hamas, with the group literally being willing to recede control of Gaza and law down its arms, in the event that a Palestinian state is established.
Secondly, your viewing of the Palestinian resistance as just Hamas, and your denial of the varying ideologies within this is quite ignorant. The PFLP, Palestinian islamic jihad, DFLP and the PRC. Hamas brutally execute suspected Israeli collaborators, as all resistance moments do. The IRA would kneecap suspected collaborators with the British state. This is not a good thing, but is a pattern that occurs in most of these types of organisations.
For your point about the hostages, I would actually argue that Hamas keeping the hostages increases pressure on the Isreali government to create a ceasefire. Isreali society does not care about the wars effects on Palestinians. They only care about the hostages. If Hamas released all the hostages today, internal pressure to reach a ceasefire would diminish, the bombing and starvation would intensify further, and the very valid war aim of "rid gaza of Hamas control" would still be unachieved. The resettlement of Gaza is basically the open plan right now, and the release of the hostages would only speed up this process.
For your point about the resistance not doing anything, I would ask you to consider the fact that despite Palestinians having mixed opinions on Hamas, almost 100% of them oppose their disarmament. Why? Because they are 100% the only thing stopping the ethnic cleansing and resettlement of Gaza. Its genuinely not possible, the Isreali military has been bogged down and losing men at quite a high rate. You cannot win a war on air superiority alone. The last 20 years of middle eastern conflicts should have taught you this by now. The resistance plays the crucial role of preventing the boots on the ground from actually conquering the land. If the resistance wasn't there, this war would have been over in november 2023, the Isreali miltary would concentrate the Gazans in an even smaller pocket of land in the south, they would resettle the north with Jews, and then this whole thing would flare up again in another few years so they could cary out a more final solution to the Palestinian question. Because of the resistance, they have made basically 0 progress into Gaza city, and even their well established bases or "conquered zones" such as khan unis regularly lose troops to ambushes from fighters.
I'd like to hope that international pressure becomes too great and the siege is lifted. However, I don't believe that the release of the hostages would change this. The hostages instead put internal pressure on Israel to end the war, as its own population cares only about the release of these hostages, and nothing about the atrocities being committed against Palestinians.
I hope that explains my position a little better. I don't support Hamas as a group, but I do unapologetically support the Palestinians armed resistance against genocide. If you are against genocide, you should be too..
EvergreenOaks@reddit
Nah, we care about Palestinians. We will see what we do with the colonisers. That's for Palestinians to decide.
kaeldrakkel@reddit
I wouldn't say I support Hamas. I certainly don't support the country (Israel) committing unbridled baby murder and genocide via illegal bombing and starvation.
It seems you support Israel though. That's pretty fucked up. That's like saying you support the Nazi Holocaust at this point. Disgusting.
HKEY_LOVE_MACHINE@reddit
Because I'm criticizing people supporting Hamas.
And you're totally not supporting Hamas.
But anyone not supporting Hamas, is supporting Israel according to you.
But you're totally not supporting Hamas. Absolutely not.
By you own logic, your lack of support for Hamas makes you a support of Israel, and thus a nazi.
How does it feel to be a nazi in 2025 kaeldrakkel?
HKEY_LOVE_MACHINE@reddit
Also, the pitiful attempts at emptying the meaning of words are severely degrading the credibility of the movement over time.
Calling everything you don't like "terrorism" makes you look like as stupid as Netanyahu doing the very same to justify his actions.
Having Netanyahu as your moral compass, as your role model, is flabbergasting - especially if you claim to be pro-pal. This man is the epitome of evil, you shouldn't be validating his actions and words by mimicking him.
Soldier-Of-Dance@reddit
Pretty much equal to killing Joseph Goebbels during World War 2. People here downplaying his death don’t value how effective propaganda can be for the morale of your troops.
Fun-Space2942@reddit
Hamas is the taliban but with better PR. He died lime the pig he was.
Thangoman@reddit
Hey, why ihasnt the India Russia news been posted here? Last time I posted something it got filtered so I dont feel like posting again soon, especially since uts a pretty big topic that anyone should see acreason to post
HalfLeper@reddit
OK, I know that this is a very heavy topic and there’s fierce debate going on in the comments section, but…taking a step back from everything, can we just take a moment to appreciate the humor in the fact that the article calls him “the face of Hamas” while using a picture where his face is hidden?
shameless_steel@reddit
Has there been a statement from Hamas yet
xoxosydneyxoxo@reddit
Big loss for much of this sub.
namikazeiyfe@reddit
They're whining all over the place 🤣
Hot_Meaning3136@reddit
No, they have to find a new spokesperson now lol
Stahlmark@reddit
This time it’s gonna be a 16 yo by the looks of their dire state.
Past-Proof-2035@reddit
Abu Obeida was 17 years old when he became the spokeperson.
FlagerantFragerant@reddit
😂😂😂😂
BabylonianWeeb@reddit (OP)
Nothing so far.
shameless_steel@reddit
Wonder why ☺️
BabylonianWeeb@reddit (OP)
They always announce their leader deaths a couple of hours after Israel claim them. We just have to wait and see. Maybe they will announce them in the next morning.
HockeyHocki@reddit
That's demonstrably false, they typically wait months, enough time for those sympathetic to Hamas to call in question whether they were even killed in the way Israel claimed.
Case in point Hamas have only just acknowledged Sinwars death, months after Israel killed him hiding under the international hospital. And what do you see on that thread on this sub right now? people claiming the guy could have died yesterday!!
Commercial-Set3527@reddit
This dude wasn't a leader, just a mouthpiece.
undernew@reddit
They waited half a year to announce the death of Mohammed Deif and multiple months to announce to death of Mohammed Sinwar.
Usually they only confirm it quickly if there's no other way like (Haniyeh being confirmed by Iran, Yahya Sinwar had photos of his body circulating).
BackseatCowwatcher@reddit
No, it generally takes them 2 - 9 months to admit that someone is actually dead, for example there was Mohammed Sinwar- Israel killed him in his bunker under the European Hospital's Neo Natal ward in April? May? and they finally said he's dead just last week.
PurplePrayingMantis@reddit
Who will make it lol
2dudesinapod@reddit
I think this is the third or fourth time they’ve killed him, I guess we’ll see.
They have killed a shit ton of his relatives over the years trying to get him though.
Crouteauxpommes@reddit
They've killed multiple spokespersons of Hamas and call them "face of Hamas" each time to make it looks like it's a decision maker and not just some random dude.
AlgerianTrash@reddit
Abu Obeida specifically was presumed killed several times over the past two decades or so
Stubbs94@reddit
They did call cameras on a hospital "Khamas Terrorist Cameras" so who knows. They'll probably call Hind Rajab a member of Khamas soon enough.
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
[removed]
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BabylonianWeeb@reddit (OP)
Reminder that cheering or celebrating deaths is against the rules regardless of who they were. Reddit admins already took down some comments on this thread of celebrating/ cheering for his death.
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