[Israel] At rallies, families urge leaders to take hostage deal on table, abort Gaza City takeover
Posted by Leather-Paramedic-10@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 82 comments
Waffles86@reddit
Most Israelis don’t give a shit about the genocide in Gaza, instead just being concerned with their own hostages. I don’t give a shit about these people anymore with no empathy for others.
MaestroRozen@reddit
Yeah, Israeli really don't deserve any empathy. Seeing the IDF parade broken, naked bodies of women they raped and tortured to death through the streets of Tel Aviv to the jubilant cheers and celebrations of so-called innocent civilians is still one of the most sickening things I've ever seen. Oh, wait. That wasn't IDF and Israeli. That was Hamas and Palestinians.
Drop the mask. If you only care about the lack of empathy when it's directed at one group of people, then you don't care about the lack of empathy. You're virtue signalling at best and racist at worst.
coleto22@reddit
Are we to pretend Israeli don't have rooftop parties and boat parties watching Palestinians getting bombed and murdered and celebrating? We know of them. So drop your mask.
While I find this behavior immoral, I personally don't believe the people who celebrate crimes deserve to be ethnically cleansed just for that - neither the Palestinians, nor the Israeli. But what do you think? Are you willing to judge Palestinians and Israeli equally? Do they both deserve to have lives and property protected? Do you think they both deserve to be ethnically cleansed? Or do you think the rules don't apply to Israeli citizens, no matter the crimes they celebrate or commit?
Waffles86@reddit
Israeli cry bullies at it again.
Israel starves Gaza, shoots people lining up for food, bombed every single hospital in Gaza, dropped the equivalent of 7 nuclear bombs of tonnage on gaza, expelled Palestinians from their homes in the West Bank, and is conducting a genocide and we’re still supposed to light our candles and remember how terrible 10/7 was and excuse what’s happening today.
Frankly it’s disgusting.
MaestroRozen@reddit
Note that I'm not denying any of Israel's wrongdoings. I'm not speaking for forgiveness. But people like you across the world thinking Israeli civilians are animals which don't deserve simpathy no matter what is exactly why Israel will continue not giving a fuck. For someone so vocal about separating Palestinians from Hamas, you all are awfully fast to equate the entire Israel with Netanyahu.
Waffles86@reddit
I am only referring to Israelis who do not care for gazans, yet ask for an end to the war. I don’t see any inconsistency in my position in not giving a shit about people who don’t care for human life.
Some Israelis DO care about Palestinians, but unfortunately they’re in the minority. The majority via polling do not give a shit, and neither I about then.
MaestroRozen@reddit
Does it matter why they want an end to the war? The only important thing is that they do - because, unlike Gaza, Israel is a democracy. Eventually, only two words will matter in whether the current government stays in power : yes and no. I assure you there's also plenty of Hamas supporters who only want to put a pause to the Jew killing because it backfired so horribly, not because they want to stop killing Jews.
You could apply that argument to a majority of Palestinians as well. Majority supports Hamas as per polls, and yet you do care about them. Radicalization is a two way street, and keeping the blame for it on the common people instead of people who use it to stay in power will just lead to extermination of one of them eventually.
Waffles86@reddit
You lost me at “Israel is a democracy”. Amertheid is not democracy.
Kahzootoh@reddit
And who supported Hamas? Israel.
Israel is responsible for the crimes of Hamas, it doesn’t get to pretend that Hamas came into power on its own. It is public knowledge that Israel funded Hamas, and this deliberate failure to acknowledge Israel’s culpability for Hamas is proof for how worthless the Israelis are.
It’s a good thing there is no justification for genocide, otherwise those savages who call themselves Israelis would find themselves at the top of the list for extermination.
MaestroRozen@reddit
The way you're speaking tells ms everything I need to know. When talking about Palestinian's actions, it's always just Hamas. But when talking about Israel's action, it's Israel down to the last man, woman and child. Not Netanyahu. Not the Knesset. Not the IDF. Israel as a whole. And yiur attitude being shared with so many people is exactly why they can get away for doing so - why should these "savages who should be the first on the list for extermination" care? It's better to be alive and hated than dead and beloved.
redelastic@reddit
All polls show a large majority in Israel support their military's actions in destroying Gaza.
But we're supposed to treat them as lovely people? Get real.
MaestroRozen@reddit
All polls show a large majority in Gaza support Hamas' actions on October 7th.
But we're supposed to treat them as lovely people? Get real.
Palestinians apply collective punishment but expects different treatment when the shoe is on the other foot.
Stop shilling for genociders.
See how dumb that sounds? Radicalization is a sword that cuts both ways, and for that to change people who rely on it to stay in power must be removed as the first and most important step to lasting peace. On both sides.
redelastic@reddit
You're the only one defending Israelis for appalling views.
redelastic@reddit
No, the IDF generally keep the raped and tortured bodies in their detention centres.
However, the children they starve to death are often left in the street.
Israeli public opinion widely supports ethnic cleansing and Palestinian suffering.
They even have a a viewing platform for children to watch the destruction of Gaza.
Mike_Jonas@reddit
They don't need your useless and empty empathy either. Save it for Hamas. Sorry for your loss, seems IDF has eliminated Hamas spokesman.
Leather-Paramedic-10@reddit (OP)
Shouldn't you be apologizing to Netanyahu? Sounds like he had a secret or not so secret love for Hamas.
Mike_Jonas@reddit
It seems the more he loves Hamas, the more he kills Hamas. Maybe that's the way he show his love. I support him.
Solarwinds-123@reddit
FTFY
feioo@reddit
He loves Hamas because it gives him an excuse to cleanse the land he wants of its people. 4 civilians killed for every militant, by the IDF's own numbers, which means the reality is far higher. May he return your support with his love.
catchcatchhorrortaxi@reddit
Coward
Mike_Jonas@reddit
Hamas bot
LovesFrenchLove_More@reddit
There are more definitions of bot. One of them is people believing and spreading propaganda they have been brainwashed into believing.
Waffles86@reddit
Least angry Israeli ^
Mike_Jonas@reddit
Tell Trump to stop supporting Israel and aid Gaza then, I am pretty sure your voice matters.
Waffles86@reddit
You think Trump will be president forever?
I also am seeing that 4 IDF soldiers are reported as missing before the IDF put on a military censorship on the story. Here’s hoping those hostages don’t starve to death!
Mike_Jonas@reddit
you could definitely vote for Democratic party in 2028. But it seems that Dem also supports Israel. Truly feel sorry for you. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cpvne94v1rdo
Waffles86@reddit
lol you realize Biden is no longer the president right? My link is more recent, get with the times.
Mike_Jonas@reddit
You guys had already protested multiple times for Gaza before January 2025, but Biden administration still decided to support Israel. It's obvious that Dem doesn't care about your opinions either.
Waffles86@reddit
Yup, you’re still stuck in the past.
https://www.commondreams.org/news/majority-oppose-israel-weapons
Mike_Jonas@reddit
Yeah yeah, January 2025 was so long ago, I am pretty sure the politicians has changed and 2028 president would definitely listen to you.
Waffles86@reddit
We will see! Support for Israel is at an all time low in American history.
https://youtube.com/shorts/Jup1mz2XoeE?si=-5WQvrdwOpDi8wzX
3 years is not a long time. You can work on your gratitude in the meantime.
Mike_Jonas@reddit
Sure, thank you, president Trump.
Affectionate_Bee6434@reddit
Zooming out, is there any end to this conflict at all? The state of Israel is a reality than cant be reversed, at the same time the idea of a two state solution is dead. The Israeli ruling class wont accept a militarized Palestinian state. A one state with equal rights will seriously change the political landscape which again wont be accepted. The big issue is that the Palestinian side has no leverage, internationally and domestically both. Israel can basically act freely with no consequence.
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
I mean this is the end result of palestinians long history of murdering jews and starting wars against israel. How many times does israel have to let itself be attacked?
Iamover18ustupidshit@reddit
Lol, same old made up, repetitive tripe.
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
Whays it like to live in am alternate reality
Iamover18ustupidshit@reddit
You tell me, you've bought up the entire space.
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
I mean Arabs were murdering jews in the 20s before israel existed.
redelastic@reddit
Yes, nothing to do with the illegal occupation by an apartheid state. Hilariously selective history.
RICO_the_GOP@reddit
They started murdering jews before israel existed.
redelastic@reddit
You're omitting the Zionist terror groups who massacred Palestinians. More selective history.
Solarwinds-123@reddit
They will accept it if they're forced to. If the US and EU treated them like we treated South Africa, they'd have no choice.
itsamepants@reddit
The only end to the conflict is when both sides realise they can't keep on fighting.
The Palestinians keep dying and Israel will not give up its ground. They will need to make compromises. People everywhere are going to cry about it and say that it's not fair and that Israel is the coloniser and should give back the land, yadda yadda yadda. But in reality there's no scenario where that will happen without some serious Palestinian compromise (i.e giving up on Jerusalem).
Problem is that this is a two-way thing, Israel will have to accept the existence of a Palestinian State right on their border (which, given previous history, is a risk).
And yes, you're right that the Palestinians have zero leverage, but people keep thinking that they "deserve" the land back, without realising that this is not how it works politically. Land is only ever ceded in war (or more accurately, the post-war agreements), and even then it's the losing side giving to the winning one (albeit not always. See: Sinai).
cdnhistorystudent@reddit
Netanyahu has never cared about the hostages. They are just pawns in his twisted game of revenge, expansion and domination of the region. The hostages would all be home by now if he had followed through with the previous ceasefire earlier this year.
shameless_steel@reddit
Then Hamas is the dumbest organisation on earth to not call his bluff
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
The only reason almost anyone in Israel is calling for peace is due to the hostages. If Hamas gives up the hostages then almost all Israeli opposition to the genocide ends, Netanyahu claims credit for winning the war and mass murders 2 million Palestinians. Then he starts on the West Bank. Well, not “starts.” Continues.
PressPausePlay@reddit
This isn't true. There were massive protests against Bibi prior to Oct 7.
There's no strategic use to continue holding the hostages. At a certain point, some concessions need to be made. I find it especially ironic since often this sub also argues that Ukraine needs to also make concessions, in order to save lives. Yet in Palestine? It seems they see no desire in any
BlackDope420@reddit
They weren't protesting Bibi because of the government's actions in Gaza or the West Bank though.
PressPausePlay@reddit
Correct. However one of the main reasons often cited, even since the start of the war was that Bibi wants the war to continue to protect himself.
The hostages are a major talking point. Release them already a d at least také that away. Here's a question, what benefit do you think Palestinians have got by Hamas continuing to hold them?
This can simply be a strategic blunder. I think recording Oct 7 and uploading it would be another. It gives fuel and actually helps Bibi, who in turn, continues to absolutely destroy Palestine.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
PressPausePlay:
Yes. And Israelis seemed fine with that as long as the hostages weren’t being harmed. But Israel keeps killing them.
Sure. Hamas hands over the hostages. Israel steps up the genocide. Win-win… unless you are one of the many hundreds of thousands of Palestinians who will then be mass murdered by Israel.
Leverage? Same as any hostage. It’s just unfortunate that Israel values mass murdering Palestinian children far more than it values any hostage.
Just think - Hamas releases the hostages. Netanyahu declares success - no need for a diplomatic solution, brute force works! Bombing of Palestinians intensifies. His opinion polls go up. Genocide continues and he calls for and wins another election.
This is what you are arguing for?
PressPausePlay@reddit
Sorry. But you didn't actually adress the question. Which was what leverage does holding the hostages bring?
You say. "Same as any hostage" and this simply isn't true, since all hostages have different syrategic vslue. Id argue that it's clear Bibi doesn't regard the hostages alresdy. They haven't lead to cessation of bombings or more careful approach. But they continually give Israel a major talking point which still hasn't died. And that is that the continued agression is because they still need to return those who were kidnapped. What I'm arguing isn't that radical, and it is no way pro israel. Release the hostages, and take away this talking ppint finally. My fear is they're being used more to ensure Hamas maintains their power, and that's something very different than actually ensuring the safety of the Palestinian people. They don't necessary hold the same approach.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
PressPausePlay:
Israelis who aren’t as callous and evil as Netanyahu are putting pressure on him to end the war. It’s not working yet, but it might eventually.
Meanwhile you are agitating for Hamas to release the hostages while knowing it will most likely accelerate the killing.
There has been no statement by any Israeli member of government or Israeli general that the return of the hostages would end the mass murder of Palestinians. There hasn’t been a hint of such a statement. In fact many Zionists on Reddit have stated that they feel that the release of the hostages shouldn’t end this ‘conflict.’
Again, Israelis and Zionists disagree with you vehemently.
You still refuse to address the key point. I suspect you are just concern trolling.
NuggetoO@reddit
So you are for hamas taking and holding hostages?
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
What a weird and frankly asinine comment. Where did I say I was?
NuggetoO@reddit
I'm asking you, do you think hamas should hold them or release them. It just seems like you think they should hold them for leverage.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
NuggetoO:
I think that Hamas should never have attacked or taken hostages, but given the current situation and the genocide, that if Hamas releases the hostages Israel will intensify the killing.
Now you, before you run away: What prevents Israel from intensifying the slaughter if Hamas releases the hostages?
NuggetoO@reddit
NuggetoO:
You really love ducking questions, don't you. I mean I get it, it's hard to come out and say that you think hamas should keep the hostages because that makes you look like a monster. Why hide what you really think? Just say it plainly: “I think Hamas should keep the hostages until they get what they want.” You tried to dress it up as concern about Israel’s response, but the core of your argument is that Hamas is right to hold civilians as leverage.
Nothing guarantees Israel would stop. That still doesn’t justify keeping civilians locked up as bargaining chips. The fact you use that question to excuse Hamas holding hostages shows you don't give a fuck what happens to them.
Also, the “before you run away” bit is just projection. I’m right here answering directly, while you dodged a yes/no question about Hamas keeping hostages.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
NuggetoO:
??? Did you not even read my post? I was pretty clear. Hamas definitely won’t release the hostages in the middle of a genocide and about guarantees. I support that. It doesn’t make me a monster, just a realist.
The real monsters are those who want Israel’s genocide to continue without restraint. Who want to relieve all the pressure Netanyahu is facing to stop the war.
No, the core of my argument is that genocide should be opposed. I know you don’t agree, but that’s not my fault.
You are “concerned” for the hostages’ wellbeing but not enough to urge Israel to stop mass murdering Palestinians so that the hostages can go free… so is it fair to say that you don’t support freeing the hostages if that means the killing stops?
I’d ask why you believe Israel would stop the mass murder of Palestinians if the hostages were released when not a single Israeli politician or IDF general has ever said this, but it’s pretty obvious that you don’t really think that.
So instead I will ask: if Hamas frees the hostages for nothing in return, including an end of the war, won’t that permit Netanyahu to declare victory, leading to a huge boost in his poll numbers and permit him to prosecute the war with abandon and with absolutely no restraint? Won’t your way guarantee that Palestinians will be mass murders ever more? Is that, in fact, your hope?
NuggetoO@reddit
NuggetoO:
Wrong. The debate isn’t whether Hamas will release the hostages, it’s whether they should. And you just admitted you support them holding civilians underground as leverage. Yes — that does make you a monster, not a “realist.”
We’re not even arguing that point. I also oppose genocide. What we’re discussing is Hamas holding hostages. Stop trying to shove fake positions onto me to dodge the actual question.
Again — wrong. I do urge Israel to stop mass killing Palestinians. And unlike you, I also urge Hamas to release the hostages. You’re the one openly defending keeping them locked up as bargaining chips.
What a loaded question. Hostages aren’t poker chips. They shouldn’t need a “return.” They should be released because holding innocent people captive is wrong, full stop. Hamas doesn’t get to be “rewarded” for kidnapping civilians — they should just let them go because that’s the baseline of human decency.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
NuggetoO:
Sorry, not my pony show. I oppose taking people hostage. Now that they are hostages in a genocide with almost all of Israel united in committing genocide, your appeal to Hamas to release the hostages is obviously to enable the genocide.
You don’t appeal to the Israelis to stop the genocide and make peace so that the hostages can be released. You don’t appeal to Israel to release the thousands of Palestinians it has held hostage for years without trial, or the kids subjected to military trials with secret evidence.
It’s just Israeli hostages, and just to enable genocide. Never peace.
I keep answering your questions and you keep accusing me of dodging them. Do you always say that? Every post? Like a touchstone of some kind?
Where? When? Please show me.
You realise that no Israeli member of government or general has said the release of the hostages will lead to peace, don’t you?
And yet you have never once suggested Israel holding innocent people captive is wrong…
Again, Israel isn’t going to end the war just because the hostages are free. It’s killed so many so far. This is about you pushing for genocide.
meister2983@reddit
I wasn't aware Israel was allowing humanitarian aid provisioning solely so the hostages get fed
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
Good non-sequitur.
shameless_steel@reddit
Ah right. Good results Hamas got from this play. Well done. Genius.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
Don’t be a genocide proponent.
Super-Base-@reddit
Agreed, but Hamas also wants to stay in power and probably hoping to negotiate an arrangement that allows that.
For Palestinians yes releasing hostages would show the world what this conflict is and always been about: god promised land.
Yashoki@reddit
Hamas has put deals on the table to free hostages and allow for a new ruling party if Israel stopped their occupation. Obviously bibi and the rest don’t care about that, their only goal is a complete ethnic cleansing and will use any excuses
GothicGolem29@reddit
I have not seen any Hamas deal on the table for them to leave power. They may have said it to the media but they haven’t put a deal together for that too my knowledge
Iamover18ustupidshit@reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/JewsOfConscience/comments/1mjl2ra/israels_hostage_negotiator_gershon_baskin_says/
shameless_steel@reddit
Maybe Islamists actually want to genocide Jews?
GothicGolem29@reddit
The issue with following through with that ceasefire was the negotiations between Israel and Hamas on what would be included in the next phase which prisoners would be released in exchange for the hostages etc. So while Netanyahu could have tried harder and should have it would have been a very difficult negotiation
Level_Hour6480@reddit
If he agreed to free the hostages, he'd lose the ability to claim them as justification for genocide. He doesn't want that.
teslawhaleshark@reddit
He is will to kill a thousand in the process of rescuing one, but he will not exchange any
LovesFrenchLove_More@reddit
Imho it’s mostly just a means for him to stay in power. Everything else is second priority at best.
outtayoleeg@reddit
Israelis have been expecting netanyahu for the last 3 decades. They're more than happy about what their evil maniacs are doing in gaza. It's already too late for this puny show the world knows your reality
Proper_Razzmatazz_36@reddit
Israelis hate bb and his goverment, the fuck are you talking about, they were protesting him even before October 7th
outtayoleeg@reddit
Then why are they electing him for the last 30 years?!
FudgeAtron@reddit
He was PM from 1996-2000 and then again from 2010-2021 and 2022-now.
The reason he stays in power is because he's a master of coalition agreements and manipulating other politicians.
The largest vote share he got was in 2020 when he got 29.5% of the vote. So the majority of the country never voted for him.
kekbooi@reddit
That's just parliamentary democracy if you don't have a dumb 2 party system, this would be true for every israeli pm.
FudgeAtron@reddit
Well most people outside of Europe live in Presidential systems, so the concept of coalition government is often unfamiliar to them.
Just to point out, Netanyahu isn't even Likud's most successful leader. From 1973-1988 Likud consistently achieved more seats (39-48) and higher percentages (30%-37%).
The fact Netanyahu's biggets win (36 seats/29.5%) happened as the pandemic was beginning should tell you that that is the most popular he actually can get.
SaneForCocoaPuffs@reddit
Hamas campaigned for him and his far right cronies last election. While the campaigns were ongoing they launched a wave of terror attacks discrediting the existing government and backing up Netanyahu’s claims that only he can keep them safe.
The attacks targeted the settlements of several politicians who were literally running for Knesset, and of course they used that for political points
PartySr@reddit
They hate him, but they love his policies, and his party is the first in polls too.
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