Construction and logging set to ramp up in ancient national forest
Posted by Portalrules123@reddit | collapse | View on Reddit | 34 comments
Posted by Portalrules123@reddit | collapse | View on Reddit | 34 comments
Bloktopian@reddit
It's almost like boomers can't stand the idea of the world going on without them in it so they have to destroy as much as they can before they fuck off.
boomaDooma@reddit
We should never have overpopulated so much that we needed these resources, and just like the deer on St Matthews Island, we wont stop till it is all gone.
Beginning_Bat_7255@reddit
In the last 6000 years, human activities have led to the destruction of approximately 3 trillion trees (50% of all trees on the planet)... so while cutting down old growth today is still an abomination, it's a drop in the ocean compared to what modern humans have already done to the planet's trees.
-big-farter-@reddit
Our entire civilization is built on the continued extraction of resources without ever giving anything back. At some point it will stop. Either by choice or by Mother Nature taking matters into her own hands.
CarneyVore14@reddit
Yeah i’m hoping Mother Natures forces humanity down a peg or two so we don’t lose even more amazing creatures and ecosystems.
Taintfacts@reddit
it's about to cancel the whole damn show. whatever fucking bullshit we leave over (goddamn plastic and PFAS) will be what the new life needs to be able to process.
it'll be in the geological record for a little bit, now known as plastiglomerates.
even the name is ugly.
DisastrousExchange90@reddit
So you’d rather have these forests burn?? They need to be managed! Yes, I agree that the landscape is ugly, particularly when they leave the slash piles. But they are also ugly, and dangerous, when a fire rips through the entire forest!! Managing them & using the trees 🌲 s the best way to go.
ToastedandTripping@reddit
Clear-cuts are not fire management...
DisastrousExchange90@reddit
Didn’t say it was. I said we need to manage the forests. And if we clear cut some, to get back to managing it better, so be it. Because nobody has been managing it for years and every year we have massive forest fires!! I’m at our cabin now, forest all around. A lot has been logged around us, but not enough. There are 3 fires that started Friday night, due to dry lightning. Many people being evac’d. Firefighters can get to the fire by land. Why? Because nothing in that area has been logged for 20 plus years. No passable roads. If they would’ve been actively logging, there would be clear roads to be able to cut fire lines in. It can’t be all or nothing. Common sense and meeting in the middle need to become the norm.
xXthrillhoXx@reddit
Sounds like your cabin shouldn't be there
DisastrousExchange90@reddit
Haha! Where else would a cabin be? Of course there are risks. My point is this fire complex is not able to be fought from the ground, except in certain areas, due to no roads to attack it from. But you just sit in your city dwelling and keyboard warrior for mismanagement.
Beginning_Bat_7255@reddit
Your argument would be a lot more sound if you mention how 'logging' is actually primarily removing dead trees and branches. People hear the word "logging" and jump to incorrect conclusions.
Forest Stewardship 101 is mostly just felling dead trees and branches and slightly mulching them into the forest floors. In the past their were enough critters in the forests that there was no need for human intervention forest stewardship, but of course most of those critters are gone today.
ToastedandTripping@reddit
Sounds like it wouldn't have been a problem if the forest was mature enough. The monocultures these forestry planters have created are tinder boxes waiting to go...
DisastrousExchange90@reddit
These aren’t “recently” planted trees. They are mixed pines, cedars, etc. Thousands of acres of forest. Not planted, as you are suggesting.
ToastedandTripping@reddit
Wow this is such a wild take...the forests are burning because WE mismanaged them. If we would have left them alone there wouldn't be forest fires on the scale we're seeing today at all! The only reason these fires are able to get so big is because the clear-cuts all regrow at the snake height so once the canopy is alight is can travel far and wide. A fire in an Old Growth forest passes under the canopy clearing out the sick and dead trees; you need old forests to have this kind of fire.
WE ARE KILLING OURSELVES. There is no middle ground here; the corporations will log until their dying breath and we're going with them...
SimpleAsEndOf@reddit
Hubert Reeves. Astrophysicist.
Hubert Reeves.
Sarah_Cenia@reddit
OMG those quotes are incredible. Goosebumps. Thank you!
SimpleAsEndOf@reddit
Thanks - the best wisdom you could ever wish for is available by searching for quotes on a website -
Their quotes teach me so much new stuff about a topic I'm not so familiar with ( eg - fascism/corruption/wealth/fate/meaning of life/public health etc etc etc)
There is another dimension for all of us to benefit from.... very quickly.... and let's us help others immediately.
eg az quotes. com - they have excellent Hitler quotes to understand the Psychopathy/Psychology of Fascism. You can then parallel these to Republican strategy or contrast with Democrats. Its very powerful.
Good luck!
Portalrules123@reddit (OP)
SS: Related to ecological collapse in the USA as the Trump administration has overturned the ‘roadless rule’ which prevented the construction of new roads for activities like logging in an area of protected national forests the size of Florida across the nation. Now plenty of once-pristine forests are on the potential chopping block, including the ancient Tongass Forest in Alaska, the largest remaining old-growth temperate rainforest on Earth. This move will threaten the viability of many species in the USA, both flora and fauna. It will also release more carbon back into the atmosphere that is stored in these forests. All in all, the (already heavily damaged) ecology of American territory is about to suffer even more. Expect deforestation to ramp up both in the USA and around the globe as our exploitation of the biosphere accelerates.
YardMinimum8622@reddit
They're not stupid they just dont give a fuck. Sure the Tongass may be the largest remaining contiguous old growth temperate rainforest in the world, home to all sorts of endangered species, home to the fucking bald eagle, it doesn't matter. Old growth lumber is expensive and a handful of Weyerhaueser executives and shareholders are going to get insanely rich by cutting this forest down.
animositykilledzecat@reddit
Which brings it back to: they are incredibly stupid.
Friskfrisktopherson@reddit
Theyre just so breathlessly stupid. They will literally burn their own house down and not realize how incredibly stupid these decisions were.
Mech_BB-8@reddit
Infinite growth! Death death death!
yeperoonie@reddit
Some are stupid. Others don't care. They're getting older and see a route to wealth they can access within their dwindling life. "Fuck you, I got mine." They don't care about the house being on fire because they won't live long enough to feel the flames.
mrpickles@reddit
What's he going to do with another $2 that he couldn't do yesterday?
travelinturdferguson@reddit
We have until September 19th to post a comment of protest!
https://www.regulations.gov/document/FS-2025-0001-0001
Sarah_Cenia@reddit
Thank you!!!
switchsk8r@reddit
is mass destruction of resources inevitable in societies? was there a possibility of a society with medical wonders and ability to feed billions that didn't destroy resources below replacement levels?
regardless we are at a level of destruction where all kinds of earthly exploitation must stop. that would kill many who rely on it, but continuing will kill everyone. We lost I think.
YardMinimum8622@reddit
I really hate that the current administration is going to undo 150 years of conservation efforts in less than 4 years.
The sad thing is is that most people genuinely don't care. They don't care about logging old growth because they genuinely believe that "who cares, trees grow back bro". Even though we already export over 50% of our lumber production in the US, it doesn't matter. They're going to cut down our crown jewel of the USFS and ship it to Asia for a quick buck. I've had people tell me, when I say I'm against this, that "the national parks will be fine, we're not getting rid of the natural wonders, we're just developing the empty deserts and wilderness". Like nature should only be allowed to exist when it's developed for tourism and pretty to look at.
On the bright side, this isn't the first time the rule got rescinded and later reinstated.
1) there is no logging infrastructure in SE Alaska anymore. Only 1 mill is still open, and it will take years to build roads in new areas given the extremely rugged and fragmented terrain of the area, and that's after the litigation process. There is no economic incentive to log this area either, so it would have to be federally subsidized in some manner (aka your tax dollars going directly into lumber executive's pockets).
2) 34% of the Tongass NF is already protected wilderness, almost 6 million acres of old growth forest, and will never be developed unless Trump starts attacking the 1964 Wilderness Act (not putting it past him). 55% is inventoried roadless area which is what is under attack. Inventoried roadless area is different than wilderness area. Roadless areas usually buffer existing wilderness and national park and were set aside to eventually expand existing wildernesses and designate new ones in the future. The remaining 11% of the NF has already been logged or developed in some way.
The biggest hope I have is that a huge chunk of the Tongass is already wilderness or national monument and is safe, and it will take years to get past litigation and actually start developing the roadless areas for resource extraction, and it is not economically or logistically feasible to actually develop most of the Tongass given the logistical nightmare and decline of the lumber industry in Alaska in general.
LakeSun@reddit
OUTRAGEOUS.
FuuuuuManChu@reddit
His goal is to destroy California.
VenusbyTuesdayTV@reddit
That's insane. In an ideal world, there should be a law mandating that trees must be farmed before they can be cut.
hectorbrydan@reddit
I'm in the middle of state and national forest and it is a shame to see these clear cuts.
Selective logging could be done taking half or even 2/3 and leaving some of the largest trees spaced out and it would improve the forest in a way.
After it was previously clear cut innumerable saplings grow up and it takes lifetimes for the forest to return to where it was on its own with large spaced out trees.
We already have thin sandy soil and that will often run off after they clear cut too.
They should always leave a strip On molested alongside Any bodies of water, and otherwise 1/3 of the largest and strongest spaced out.
StatementBot@reddit
The following submission statement was provided by /u/Portalrules123:
SS: Related to ecological collapse in the USA as the Trump administration has overturned the ‘roadless rule’ which prevented the construction of new roads for activities like logging in an area of protected national forests the size of Florida across the nation. Now plenty of once-pristine forests are on the potential chopping block, including the ancient Tongass Forest in Alaska, the largest remaining old-growth temperate rainforest on Earth. This move will threaten the viability of many species in the USA, both flora and fauna. It will also release more carbon back into the atmosphere that is stored in these forests. All in all, the (already heavily damaged) ecology of American territory is about to suffer even more. Expect deforestation to ramp up both in the USA and around the globe as our exploitation of the biosphere accelerates.
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1n4o1a1/construction_and_logging_set_to_ramp_up_in/nbmhio3/