What do people in the UK think about a Eurostar rival running trains from Europe beyond just London?

Posted by AlertTangerine@reddit | AskUK | View on Reddit | 314 comments

[removed]

Reply to Post

Reply

314 Comments

[-]

phleshlight@reddit

Eutrostar needs competition because its monopoly hasn't helped the company. I used to work for them - it's Ryanair on wheeels. Does the bare minimum for customers whilst charging sky-high prices. DB tried to get a route from St Pancras to Germany in the ealy 2010s which would have been great. Outside of the south-east, Eurostar isn't a viable travel option for most given the time and costs involved in getting to London, hopefully some competition would bring costs down and encourage more people to get a train than flying.

Reply

[-]

AlertTangerine@reddit (OP)

interesting. Thank you for the insight as a former employee.

Reply

[-]

ExoticMangoz@reddit

The real problem is that, between the price of the Eurostar and the price of a train to London in the first place, a train to Europe costs 5-10x more than a flight.

Reply

[-]

Significant-Key-762@reddit

This is a very fair and true and valid point. If you want to take the Eurostar from the UK to anywhere in Europe, you first have to get to Kings X/St Pancras, which is - frankly - shit. If you could start in Inverness or Cardiff or Plymouth and 3-4 hours later find yourself in Brussels or Amsterdam, that would be a far better proposition.

Reply

[-]

ParsnipFlendercroft@reddit

Why would it be? The best proposition is to leave from the highest concentration of people wanting to travel. Why would a Cardiff departure be better for most people?

Reply

[-]

Significant-Key-762@reddit

Well, frankly, my original text didn't include Cardiff. But I expect you know that. I re-worded the cities to include somewhere Welsh, just because. That doesn't negate the assertion - I actually do maintain that Inverness, Cardiff, and Plymouth, would be excellent origins for euro-destined trains.

Reply

[-]

ParsnipFlendercroft@reddit

> But I expect you know that. How the fuck would I know that? Your comment isn't showing as edited because if you did edit you did it straight after. And regardless - I couldn't give a hoot what your original comment said - we not discussing the history of it. >I actually do maintain that Inverness, Cardiff, and Plymouth, would be excellent origins for euro-destined trains. That's not what you said though. You said *they would be better than a London start* not a sensible addition.

Reply

[-]

Significant-Key-762@reddit

Oh crikey, you really are holding me to account here. And not unfairly so! I'm really not sure how to justify my regional assertions - I just think they'd work!

Reply

[-]

Glynebbw@reddit

I suppose all of those would still have to pass through London to get to the tunnel, so all the London passengers would still be able to use it, but a wider range of people outside London would consider it.

Reply

[-]

jpepsred@reddit

Competition wouldn’t help much. The supply is limited by the eurotunnel, and that’s already pretty much at capacity. It can’t come close to replacing air travel without more tunnels

Reply

[-]

phleshlight@reddit

That's not correct. Getlink (not Eurotunnel) operates well under capacity. It runs 40p trains a day with a capacity of 1000. [Source.](https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/channel-tunnel-at-30-celebrating-the-landmark-infrastructure-07-05-2024/)

Reply

[-]

jpepsred@reddit

By eurotunnel i mean the tunnel the trains run through. Which has a hard physical capacity. Even if that theoretical capacity is 3x the current throughput, it’s nothing compared with flights. And if they’re currently running 0.4x theoretical capacity, id suggest there are some expensive reasons why, and not something that could be changed quickly to allow increased competition. I don’t see how the tunnel could ever become cheap without digging 10x more tunnels

Reply

[-]

phleshlight@reddit

I think the capacity issue is down to demand. Eurostar is great if you're in London, not so great if you live up north. Obviously the rail network isn't as convient as your local airport, but it would be nice if we didn't have planes going from UK to France.

Reply

[-]

Kharenis@reddit

>Outside of the south-east, Eurostar isn't a viable travel option for most given the time and costs involved in getting to London, hopefully some competition would bring costs down and encourage more people to get a train than flying. In all fairness, it's reasonably viable for people living along the East Coast railway. For me in York, it takes just as long (or even longer) to get to a major airport than it does to get to St. Pancras. I would appreciate it if it were cheaper though. As it were, I'll be getting the train down to London then the Eurostar to Brussels next Friday.

Reply

[-]

phleshlight@reddit

I'm in the Midlands and it's quicker to go from London to Brussels than it is to get to London. I guess it's something of a postcode lottery because there's a major airport here. I hate flying tho and would always prefer a train unless it's inconvenient, which it almost always is.

Reply

[-]

999hologram@reddit

I dont think Ryanair on wheels is right at all considering the generous luggage allowance.

Reply

[-]

thorny_business@reddit

Outside of the SE it's usually going to be quicker to fly.

Reply

[-]

Jbones37@reddit

I absolutely hate air travel, the whole process is tedious, uncomfortable, expensive. I personally think trains are by far the best form of long distance travel, why we didn't invest in high speed rail like other countries have done or are starting to do is baffling.

Reply

[-]

phleshlight@reddit

We sort of did with Eurostar. Then Cameron decided to sell it off (for very poor value for money).

Reply

[-]

redish6@reddit

A while since i’ve flown but isn’t Ryanair cheap as chips? I though that was the deal

Reply

[-]

thesnootbooper9000@reddit

Not really. They have a few tickets available on some flights that are actually cheap, and they're possibly slightly less expensive if you can avoid paying any of the extra fees (but their free carry on luggage is extremely restricted so often you can't). However, all they've really done is dragged the customer experience way down, made everyone else copy this model, and then jacked the prices up.

Reply

[-]

phleshlight@reddit

I was more referring to extras. Eurostar will squeeze every penny they can out of you like Ryanair

Reply

[-]

Jaded_Truck_700@reddit

What extras?

Reply

[-]

phleshlight@reddit

Everything apart from the ticket. They charge a tenner just to change your seat.

Reply

[-]

Wilsonj1966@reddit

I think they mean bith Eurostar and Ryanaie provide a very low end service But became Ryanaie has competition, they charge low prices but Eurostar doesn't have competition so can charge high prices for a low end service

Reply

[-]

phleshlight@reddit

A low end service coasting on its brand name. I hated working for them so much. The most tight-fisted, greedy, money-hungry company I've ever worked for.

Reply

[-]

phleshlight@reddit

A low end service coasting on its brand name. I hated working for them so much. The most tight-fisted, greedy, money-hungry company I've ever worked for.

Reply

[-]

revolucionario@reddit

Counterpoint: Deutsche Bahn is a dumpster fire. You don't want them blocking up your tracks.

Reply

[-]

my-comp-tips@reddit

I remember seeing an article about this, with a German ICE at St Pancras promoting the route.

Reply

[-]

phleshlight@reddit

Yeah, DB got a licence to use the route but backed down due to coat. I think Eurostar is planning to add a similar route recently but I haven't looked it up so not 100%. After the Thalys merger, the company has a lot of potential.

Reply

[-]

NotForMeClive7787@reddit

Agreed especially about the prices. They're a piss take

Reply

[-]

Almtn8888@reddit

Sure why not

Reply

[-]

Ihavecakewantsome@reddit

That would be super cool if possible 🥹

Reply

[-]

Pockysocks@reddit

Direct train from Edinburgh to Europe would be nice.

Reply

[-]

PixieBaronicsi@reddit

Would it really? You can already get a train from Edinburgh to King’s Cross, then walk across the station to St Pancras to get the train to Europe. The added convenience seems minimal to me, considering that’s a 7 hour journey anyway to Paris

Reply

[-]

Pockysocks@reddit

I wish to time travel to Paris by sleeping the entire way.

Reply

[-]

bitofrock@reddit

When I flew a lot for business in Europe I managed to train myself to fall asleep by take-off. I'd wake up on touchdown. It was awesome. I'd then be fresh for the day rather than acting like someone who'd been up since 4:45.

Reply

[-]

PerkeNdencen@reddit

To do this crammed into economy with your knees in your face: 1. Ask the air hostess how many beers they're allowed to give you for the flight. 2. Ask for them all at once. 3. Drink them. 4. Fall asleep in a boozy haze. 5. Wake up with a screeching hangover, feeling like you've been holding a tantric pose for the last 8 hours.

Reply

[-]

bitofrock@reddit

Hahah. Long distance economy air travel sucks but at least it's quite affordable these days. Most of my business travel was a couple of hours from sitting down to getting up. I always went for a window seat too, so I wouldn't be woken by people getting to their seat or going to the bathroom. It helps that I'm about average height so most spaces fit me reasonably well.

Reply

[-]

PerkeNdencen@reddit

Haha that's fair. I used to live in the states but visit family often in the UK, Italy and North Africa, and sometimes those are long and horrible flights! I'm tall, so I just don't really fit in any way that approximates comfortable.

Reply

[-]

bitofrock@reddit

Tall is great for careers and dating. Sucks for air travel, beds and various sports from karting to equestrianism.

Reply

[-]

bored_toronto@reddit

Literally *Quantum Leap* and wake up in another country.

Reply

[-]

sjcuthbertson@reddit

I got fairly good at this just by doing 1 red-eye flight a year between US west coast and London, for a few years. Aided by some diphenhydramine, to be fair. The biggest problem was that it always seemed to confuse the cabin crew. They tried to wake me to offer me food once 🤦‍♂️

Reply

[-]

bitofrock@reddit

Masks can help stop them, especially with "do not resuscitate" on them.

Reply

[-]

rocketshipkiwi@reddit

Damn, business travel sounds so glamorous!

Reply

[-]

bitofrock@reddit

I knew where all the quiet spots in airports could be found. Also had strong opinions on service stations and the taxi drivers of different cities.

Reply

[-]

ultrafunkmiester@reddit

It's the best advice I ever heard from one of those constant traveller types 20 years ago. A business man who had a lifetime ticket. Once you've looked out the window once in most parts of the world, it gets dull. Sleep on take off.

Reply

[-]

UpsetKoalaBear@reddit

This man has cracked time travel

Reply

[-]

Adam-West@reddit

The secret ingredient is Valium

Reply

[-]

SeoulGalmegi@reddit

I mean..... yes? Why not add an hour or so to the travel time and knock quite a bit off in terms of time taken to transfer and hassle of getting bags off and taking another train etc. Not changing is better than changing. What a weird comment.

Reply

[-]

Jaded_Truck_700@reddit

Because the platforms arent long enough at edinburgh to fit trains specced to meet saftey requirements though the tunnel. You'd also be having to purchase trains capable of running with multiple signalling systems and being capable of 200mph, yet only being able to use 125mpg of it for most of the jounrney. The demand for something like this, when like the other commentator pointed out, there is already the option of a direct train into KGX is minimal. You would also need to shift the border control to edingbourgh station - does it have the space? Almost certaintly not. You would also not be allowed to let passengers on at any other station in the UK unless they also had border control. You can call the other commetators comment weird, but yours is incredibily ill informed.

Reply

[-]

CyclingUpsideDown@reddit

Edinburgh has 3 of the longest platform faces in the country. Yes, they each consist of 2 numbered platforms, but it’s disingenuous to say Edinburgh couldn’t accommodate such trains.

Reply

[-]

Jaded_Truck_700@reddit

Which plaftorms do you think are long enough, in a suitable location have a secure permiter fence around them and a passport control area attached? All whilst not constraining current operational capacitiy?

Reply

[-]

CyclingUpsideDown@reddit

I never said anything about any of those things. I was only correcting your assertion that Edinburgh doesn’t have platforms long enough.

Reply

[-]

Jaded_Truck_700@reddit

Okay sure, but you agree then it's not possible with the current layout of the station

Reply

[-]

Psychological-Fox97@reddit

I appreciate your informative comments, ignore the morons!

Reply

[-]

CyclingUpsideDown@reddit

Well, it’s not possible at any station thanks to the lack of passport and customs facilities. But in a world with unlimited budget, I don’t see any reason why you couldn’t construct the appropriate facilities in the station without needing to touch the actual rail infrastructure itself.

Reply

[-]

PeterG92@reddit

Google says Eurostar trains are built to be up to 394 meters long. Edinburgh's longest platform is 275 meters

Reply

[-]

dpwtr@reddit

Good thing Eurostar aren’t the ones planning to compete with Eurostar…

Reply

[-]

PeterG92@reddit

If they want it to be viable then it will need to be a similar length

Reply

[-]

dpwtr@reddit

Why? Cant the difference be priced in? Maybe attach more carriages as the journey continues? Surely this is one of the first things they’ve thought to address.

Reply

[-]

PeterG92@reddit

The fewer seats you have the more expensive it would have to be. If you want to be a competitor you need to often similar or else people will just go with Eurostar

Reply

[-]

dpwtr@reddit

Of course, that’s what priced in means. I agree it’s a delicate balance in terms of staying competitive, but the point would be they are offering a direct service Eurostar doesn’t. I pay more for direct long haul flights. I even once paid more for Eurostar than flying to see if it worked out more convenient than flying. It didn’t, but tons of people seem to feel differently and take the same journey I did.

Reply

[-]

Jaded_Truck_700@reddit

If they want to run through the channel tunnel they will need to be 400m. You dont seem to understand the situation very well

Reply

[-]

dpwtr@reddit

I never claimed to. Could they maybe solve this by adding carriages at stations later in the journey?

Reply

[-]

SeoulGalmegi@reddit

>You can call the other commetators comment weird, but yours is incredibily ill informed. What? lol We were talking about the convenience of direct trains rather than having to change, not the practicalities of actually running the trains direct. But, err, thanks for a few paragraphs of interesting but irrelevant information, I guess.

Reply

[-]

Jaded_Truck_700@reddit

>Why not add an hour or so to the travel time and knock quite a bit off in terms of time taken to transfer and hassle of getting bags off and taking another train etc. I'm telling you why not

Reply

[-]

SeoulGalmegi@reddit

From the *passenger's* point of view. You completely missed the context of what was being discussed, but don't worry, I'm sure another comment will come along in a few minutes.

Reply

[-]

Jaded_Truck_700@reddit

From the passengers point of view the cost of the tickets would be much higher to cover all of this investment. So even if you want to be pedantic about it, the reply still covers it from the passengers perspective.

Reply

[-]

SeoulGalmegi@reddit

Yeah.... OK. We can pretend you understood perfectly from the beginning. No problem. Thank you, what an insightful and relevant reply! That is a side I hadn't considered, but is most definitely and obviously an interesting angle to view my post from. I really do appreciate your thoughtful response - thanks for taking the time and have a great day!

Reply

[-]

dpwtr@reddit

But the guy never raised any of those points? We’re talking purely about convenience of no-transfer. This place sucks nowadays.

Reply

[-]

Jaded_Truck_700@reddit

They said: >Why not add an hour or so to the travel time and knock quite a bit off in terms of time taken to transfer and hassle of getting bags off and taking another train etc. My reply is an answer to this comment. This place sucks nowadays.

Reply

[-]

dpwtr@reddit

It wasn’t. It was a spiel about the technical logistics of setting this up, not a response to why staying on the same train from initial departure to final destination (without a transfer) would be more convenient for the traveler. I don’t think your reply even remotely touches on anything from the travellers perspective.

Reply

[-]

bonjourmiamotaxi@reddit

It's such a weirdly English sentiment, too.

Reply

[-]

db1000c@reddit

In what way?

Reply

[-]

GarethGore@reddit

For me I think it's English as we just sort of, put up with stuff. Like we grumble but we just get on and do it. Don't want to be a bother, and everything is sort of grin and bear it That said on the op I want more options for everyone so I'm all for it and less changes is less changes. Win

Reply

[-]

thorny_business@reddit

That's just experience after 80 years of decline.

Reply

[-]

dpwtr@reddit

Fair, but still… that decline has been partly enabled by this complacency. Almost every government is somewhat incompetent but in the UK they know population is all bark no bite when it comes to rebelling against the establishment.

Reply

[-]

GarethGore@reddit

True, I genuinely think it is, we just don't expect much

Reply

[-]

bonjourmiamotaxi@reddit

Because the English are weird and awful.

Reply

[-]

db1000c@reddit

Ah ok so it was a nonsensical comment, just as I suspected

Reply

[-]

bonjourmiamotaxi@reddit

Yes, in no way was I able to see you coming a mile off from your "just asking questions" tone and responded facetiously in order for you to get to fuck. Instead that was my legitimate answer. Thank you for your attention to this matter.

Reply

[-]

db1000c@reddit

I still don’t understand what was so quintessentially English about someone mentioning the minimal improvements that a train service would receive by being direct as opposed to changing at a major hub. But I guess you can continue to go off if you want

Reply

[-]

bonjourmiamotaxi@reddit

Thank you for your permission.

Reply

[-]

db1000c@reddit

Do.. do we kiss now?

Reply

[-]

bonjourmiamotaxi@reddit

What a uniquely Ghanian thing to say.

Reply

[-]

db1000c@reddit

Really? I always knew I was special

Reply

[-]

chebster99@reddit

What a weird and awful thing to say

Reply

[-]

aspannerdarkly@reddit

Not necessarily, it can be nice to break up the journey and stretch your legs a bit

Reply

[-]

Blind_Warthog@reddit

But the Eurostar lounge/lobby is upsetting. Also extra few hours unbroken sleep if needed.

Reply

[-]

GrandDukeOfNowhere@reddit

Except that the Eurostar has a check in process more like a plane than a train, so you have to be in London extra early, which often means having to be there the night before and having to pay for a hotel

Reply

[-]

Chuck_The_Lad@reddit

What? I got to St. Pancras an hour before departure.

Reply

[-]

Jaded_Truck_700@reddit

Which means that edinbourgh station would need to have the boarder checks there, which there isnt space for. The platforms arent long enough to accomadate the length trains need to be to be allowed to run through the channel tunnel and the line from edinbrough to the tunnel isnt fast enough to make use of the top speed of the train either.

Reply

[-]

PumpkinJambo@reddit

How have you managed to spell Edinburgh wrong twice and in different ways? Also there’s a massive empty space at Waverley which could easily accommodate border control if developed properly. I can’t see it happening but it would be great if it did.

Reply

[-]

Jaded_Truck_700@reddit

When regional eurostar services were looked the plans were to have passport checks done in London due to constraints at regional stations. The station would need to have fenced off seucre platforms, long enough for the trains next to the passport control area, without effecting domestic operations. It would have trains capable of running at 200mph being constrained to 125mph all the way to HS1 then capped at 140mph. This would be spending a huge amount of money for very little gain.

Reply

[-]

PumpkinJambo@reddit

How very tedious.

Reply

[-]

Jaded_Truck_700@reddit

Yes, reality is boring something, but thanks for adding meaningful input to the conversation

Reply

[-]

GrandDukeOfNowhere@reddit

This feels like nitpicking minor problems when ultimately the Eurostar has multiple stops on the other side of the channel, but somehow we can only manage to have one in London on this side. For some reason despite inventing them we managed to do trains in general so much worse than the rest of western Europe

Reply

[-]

thorny_business@reddit

> For some reason despite inventing them we managed to do trains in general so much worse than the rest of western Europe There's a counter-factual where the trains were never nationalised in the 40s and Beeching never happened.

Reply

[-]

Jaded_Truck_700@reddit

Creating a fenced off area with passport control in stations with limited scope to increase their footprint, when exisiting platforms are used to capacity seems like a minor problem? It would be incredibly expensive and disprutitive, and so, is rightly balances against the demand for a service like this and the benefits it brings

Reply

[-]

GrandDukeOfNowhere@reddit

Well they managed to do it in Brussels, Amsterdam and a dozen cities in France

Reply

[-]

Jaded_Truck_700@reddit

And currently Eurostar only uses two of those cities in France. Brussels, Amsterdam and the cities in France currently used are all shorter journeys with higher speed track and different demand patterns than those from Edingbrough, so I'm not sure what your point is? We also have also had Ashford, Ebbsfleet and Waterloo served by eurostar - its not that it cant be done in this country, is whether it is worth doing

Reply

[-]

CyclingUpsideDown@reddit

I managed Dundee-Paris once. Left Dundee at the back of 9 in the morning direct to King’s Cross, arriving around 4 in the afternoon. I had time to wander round London for a bit before catching the 7.30-ish Eurostar. A long day but I figured that once I’d added up the individual legs involved with flying, it wasn’t much different.

Reply

[-]

OStO_Cartography@reddit

Whereas when I used to catch the Eurostar from Ashford International, I could turn up twenty minutes before it was due to leave and walk straight on, more or less.

Reply

[-]

Daveddozey@reddit

There’s a reason they don’t pay for the security and passport at ashford any more. You’d have to charge a lot more for passengers.

Reply

[-]

172116@reddit

And if the train to London is delayed, you're stuffed - my parents once had about 4 hours between the sleeper and Eurostar, and still missed it.

Reply

[-]

cenjui@reddit

I do this journey from Edinburgh to Cologne or Amsterdam a few times a year. Generally you need to leave two hours between arriving at Kings Cross and leaving St Pancras for the Eurostar check in and its horrible. Plus the waiting to board room in St Pancras is about 50% too small and always really hot and never has enough seats. Its the same on the return, you need to leave at least 2 hours as Eurostar is often delayed. Plus you have an hour and a half / 2 hours at Brussels Midi as well if you cant get a direct train. If there were direct trains from Edinburgh to Brussels Midi it would be a far quicker and easier, plus less mentally tiring, changing trains, especially if your doing 5 trains in a day and missing one due to delays can mean missing the next 4 with reservered seating etc is stressfull. Demand wise I think it would work. I often recognise people in Brussels I saw back in Edinburgh that morning.

Reply

[-]

bored_toronto@reddit

> Plus the waiting to board room in St Pancras is about 50% too small I took the Eurostar from Paris to St Pancras earlier this summer. Boarding at Gare du Nord was like the Hunger Games.

Reply

[-]

cenjui@reddit

Hahahahhahaha yeah that one is fun!

Reply

[-]

Jaded_Truck_700@reddit

The platforms arent long enough to accomadate the length trains need to be to be allowed to run through the channel tunnel and the line from edinbrough to the tunnel isnt fast enough to make use of the top speed of the train either. If there was demand and it was feasible do you think eurostar or a competitor are either too incompetent or just dont want to make the extra money from these extra operations?

Reply

[-]

MerlinOfRed@reddit

You'd have shorter trains then. You'd have a smaller section from Edinburgh that then combines with the second half in St Pancras or Stratford. Plenty of trains do this and it's fine. The real difficulty is that Edinburgh Waverley is already a badly designed mess as it is and there definitely isn't any space to put in border security and another departure lounge. Realistically you'd probably have them running from Edinburgh Gateway, and then you'd have to expand the Edinburgh tram/bus capacity to get whole trainloads of people into the city. But I travel to Germany multiple times per year and losing that 2 hour changeover at St Pancras would probably be just enough to make the Edinburgh-Munich journey viable in one day instead having to overnight somewhere.

Reply

[-]

Jaded_Truck_700@reddit

>The real difficulty is that Edinburgh Waverley is already a badly designed mess as it is and there definitely isn't any space to put in border security and another departure lounge. I've said this is other comments and people are arguing there is plenty of space. >But I travel to Germany multiple times per year and losing that 2 hour changeover at St Pancras would probably be just enough to make the Edinburgh-Munich journey viable in one day instead having to overnight somewhere. Maybe and I would think about using it, but how many other people would - its not clear there is demand for such long train journeys when there are flights competing against them >You'd have shorter trains then. Sure it is feasible, but it adds operational complexity, if the northern unit fails then the corrasponding london service is cancelled. You also have the London unit being utlised at a very low rate as it wont be in use as the northern unit goes to/from the north These trains would also be custom built so not sure how much extra cost would be added due to that

Reply

[-]

MerlinOfRed@reddit

I'm no civil engineer so if anyone wants to correct me then go for it, but I genuinely can't see how you could without drastically reducing capacity. It's not like there is any space to expand the station either - it already fills the entire gap available. And I'm not saying that they should run all the way to Munich, but Paris/Brussels/Amsterdam and then potentially Cologne would be feasible I think. An 8 hour journey is not too dissimilar to the time flying takes - it's not just the 2 hour flight, but the two hours before, plus the half hour bus in Edinburgh and the half hour train/bus in Paris (assuming CDG, longer for Orly) plus passport control and baggage reclaim. Realistically you're looking at 6-7 hours in total. Some people might just take the slightly longer train for convenience. You're right about the added complexity and more room for delays/cancellations, but I guess that's part of rail travel in general.

Reply

[-]

randomusername8472@reddit

People saying there's no demand is crazy to me because ... Aren't their already flights connecting these places? People clearly want to go directly from, say, Edinburgh to Paris in large enough numbers that it's worth running plane services. Trains *should* compete by being more comfortable than plans for a similar price point. The rails should have been laid so that trains can connect up. People want to travel by train to all the intermediate places so it's not like you're laying a dedicated line. All the reasons that it's difficult to have direct trains now is a result of bad planning by the previous generation.

Reply

[-]

unclear_warfare@reddit

Yeah but you can't to Manchester, I think it would be a good thing

Reply

[-]

wild_kangaroo78@reddit

It would be a godsend for me when I am travelling between Edinburgh and Paris for work. I don't have the time to be faffing around walking between stations. It's not efficient for me. It

Reply

[-]

butter_pockets@reddit

r/redditsniper

Reply

[-]

Katharinemaddison@reddit

I mean for one you’re not paying to travel to London. Which can be about £70 in advance in order to get to London at a reasonable time. And it’s the difference between an 11+ hour journey and a 7 hour journey. It’s over four hours from Edinburgh to London.

Reply

[-]

Sharp-Sky64@reddit

Most people in the UK would rather avoid London mate

Reply

[-]

Squared-Porcupine@reddit

No one likes changes.

Reply

[-]

Daveddozey@reddit

I’m happy with changes, I don’t like the security theatre of going through a metal detector and then the passport idiocy and the waiting around in an overcrowded room. Compared to changing trains at Hamburg last week where I had delays (of course - DB), but simply perused a book shop for half an hour. Lots of space, lots of things to do while waiting.

Reply

[-]

bigfatpup@reddit

It’s not hard but if you have kids and bags I imagine the walk and timing the next train is a pain and you’d just lean towards flying

Reply

[-]

SlumberlandNemo@reddit

A sleeper train would get you a whisky nightcap in Edinburgh at 10pm, wake up to croissants in Paris, that would be the dream.

Reply

[-]

No-Winner8975@reddit

Of course it would be. Nobody outside of London wants to change there. Just pass straight through is way better It's even more of a pain in the arse to have to change between stations (regardless of them being across the road from each other)

Reply

[-]

rev-fr-john@reddit

Direct and getting off one train with your baggage, taking a short walk, waiting for another train and lugging your luggage onto another train, is so not the same thing, the point of high speed rail is not to fragment the journey into short irritating legs.

Reply

[-]

Webcat86@reddit

“Why would you want a direct flight to LA when you can already stop in Canada for a transfer?”

Reply

[-]

OldLondon@reddit

By that logic I can go direct from my house to Montreal.

Reply

[-]

ChoppingOnionsForYou@reddit

The added competition would be nice. Eurostar have an annoying bait and switch habit on booking seats. I'd like to see them actually work for our money.

Reply

[-]

insomnimax_99@reddit

That’s not even added convenience lol, that’s added inconvenience - and will probably be way more expensive too.

Reply

[-]

Bladders_@reddit

Different gauge between Europe and Eurostar compared with the rest of the UK rail network.

Reply

[-]

Realistic-River-1941@reddit

Most of Europe outside Iberia and the former-USSR/Russian empire uses the same gauge as Great Britain. The problem is the loading gauge (how tall and wide trains can be), which is smaller in the UK than elsewhere.

Reply

[-]

Kharenis@reddit

The track gauge is the same, but there's a different loading gauge so it would need a new custom train to be built, which isn't an impossible feat.

Reply

[-]

Bladders_@reddit

Ofcourse. I mean we'd just have a big gap between our trains and their platforms 😂.

Reply

[-]

Kharenis@reddit

Nothing a good "Please mins and the gap..." announcement couldn't fix, though it may require a bit of a jump. 😅

Reply

[-]

Bladders_@reddit

"Please mind the massive gap" or "Mind the gap, no, really" 😂

Reply

[-]

SlackObserver@reddit

Is the 4 second walk in London really that much of an inconvenience?

Reply

[-]

DayMurky617@reddit

I don't know why people are taking issue with this, connecting Scotland's capital to the continent without forcing people to fly would unarguably be good

Reply

[-]

Cultural-Meaning5172@reddit

Edinburgh is already in Europe

Reply

[-]

Pockysocks@reddit

We just say Europe instead of Continental Europe

Reply

[-]

Bugsmoke@reddit

But not mainland Europe, which they likely meant

Reply

[-]

iwaterboardheathens@reddit

Much better to avoid England altogether when traveling to Europe Scotland is depressing enough already, England is far more depressing, why compound your issues

Reply

[-]

DTH2001@reddit

Edinburgh to the south of France would be nice

Reply

[-]

TheMonkeyInCharge@reddit

Would be an awesome sleeper service, and I’m guessing the lines are quiet overnight.

Reply

[-]

TomLondra@reddit

Edinburgh is in Europe.

Reply

[-]

Significant-Key-762@reddit

Edinburgh is part of the UK, which is a part of Europe - if not the EU. Sleeper trains from Scotland to Amsterdam or Brussels and beyond would be excellent!

Reply

[-]

1duck@reddit

Overnight to Milan or Berlin would be *chefs kiss*

Reply

[-]

Funk5oulBrother@reddit

Direct train from Edinburgh to 2025 would be nicer.

Reply

[-]

AnonymousTimewaster@reddit

As someone who lives in the North this doesn't seem to impact me in the slightest so I don't think much about it at all. More trains sounds good though I guess.

Reply

[-]

1duck@reddit

Yeah for real if they hadn't fumbled HS2 horribly, the original planned Manchester or Leeds to Europe route would be amazing. Although whilst I'm here the original HS2 didn't go far enough, it should have gone to Glasgow and Edinburgh, hell whilst they were on they should have gone all the way to Aberdeen and the furthest possible places in Britain. Instead we got trains to Birmingham which wasn't all that far from London by train anyway. Bring back Victorians who didn't give a shit and just got stuff done, sorry you've got a complaint about noise and the train going past your village, here have some child labour mined coal to make up for it.

Reply

[-]

MixGroundbreaking622@reddit

Its crazy how 150 years ago we built extremely complex infrastructure within a few years. These days we can't even get past the planning phase within two decades. It's embarrassing.

Reply

[-]

DTH2001@reddit

The Victorians definitely did give a shit about certain people. The London to Brighton line takes a big swerve in mid Sussex because the landowner didn’t want rail lines going through.

Reply

[-]

thorny_business@reddit

Some land owners would subsidise a loss-making railway to their village as a prestige project. That's why old railways stations look so nice, even the small ones.

Reply

[-]

1duck@reddit

Ah well his loss, no train for him!

Reply

[-]

thorny_business@reddit

> Bring back Victorians who didn't give a shit and just got stuff done, sorry you've got a complaint about noise and the train going past your village, here have some child labour mined coal to make up for it. You'd need to go back to the franchise of the Victorian era.

Reply

[-]

MeringueComplex5035@reddit

i never understood the logic behind faster trains to birmingham, we already have multiple lines that are decently fast, and marylebone is literally a terminus dedicated for trains to birmingham

Reply

[-]

thesockpuppetaccount@reddit

In order to bring back the Victorian approach we also need to bring nepotism and the aristocracy. I’m not necessarily adverse to that because at least they got crazy shit done

Reply

[-]

ImScaredofCats@reddit

They never left or went away

Reply

[-]

thesockpuppetaccount@reddit

We still have nepotism but we haven’t had a proper aristocracy since 1958 when life peerages were introduced. Certainly nothing remotely close to the Victorian era of aristocracy. It’s social and ceremonial rather than functional.

Reply

[-]

tdrules@reddit

Eurostar was meant to go to Manchester but was scrapped once cheap flights took over. If we’re being realistic, without HS2 there’s no capacity for any Eurostar length trains going up north anyway.

Reply

[-]

Significant-Key-762@reddit

You're spot on, BUT it shouldn't be this way. It shouldn't be cheaper to fly from Manchester to Amsterdam or Brussels. I know it is, but it shouldn't be. It really ought to be as cheap, and just as fast, to go by rail.

Reply

[-]

Bladders_@reddit

Hang on, it's 45-50 mins (in the air) between Manchester and Schiphol. With the best will in the world I don't think a train will come near.

Reply

[-]

Significant-Key-762@reddit

Not in terms of speed, I agree, but one might hope that such a trip would be cheaper by land than by air!

Reply

[-]

Jaded_Truck_700@reddit

Why though, you need something like 900km of high speed track and signalling to be maintained and replaced. With flights you need an airport at either end and ATC

Reply

[-]

Significant-Key-762@reddit

I suppose my key word is "cheaper" - forget speed and whatever else, and call me old fashioned if you will, but I think it should be cheaper to go from London to Athens by rail than it should be by air. I think that the fact that it isn't is, in many ways, perverse :(

Reply

[-]

No_Athlete_2263@reddit

I too would like to get a train to New York and not fly...

Reply

[-]

Significant-Key-762@reddit

Well, frankly, that should be an option.

Reply

[-]

RuneClash007@reddit

Train to Athens? Have you ever seen a reliable railway in Greece?

Reply

[-]

Significant-Key-762@reddit

I've taken the metro from the airport to the city, and that seemed to work.

Reply

[-]

RuneClash007@reddit

Bit different between airport and the city, and going through the Greek mountains via Albania/Macedonia though isn't it

Reply

[-]

Significant-Key-762@reddit

Well. Yes. And Heathrow to Kings Cross is different from Kings Cross to Inverness.

Reply

[-]

RuneClash007@reddit

I don't really get your point, the UK is much easier for train transit than Greece

Reply

[-]

LoveBeBrave@reddit

Why? Because it’s significantly slower, and a worse passenger experience? Good doesn’t have to mean expensive, and cheap doesn’t have to mean bad.

Reply

[-]

thorny_business@reddit

Why?

Reply

[-]

Daveddozey@reddit

You have to pay the train crew more (5 hours rather 50 minutes each way). You’ve then got the cost of the plane/train - a plane could do 12 trips in a day, a train could do 3. Then there’s the cost of the land, the and maintenence of the track, and that tunnel wasn’t cheap.

Reply

[-]

Significant-Key-762@reddit

I cannot, and won't even begin to attempt to disagree with you - it is cheaper to fly 300 people from Luton to Athens than it is to send them by rail. But can we agree that it shouldn't be? For the sake of this planet, and all of the associated positive stuff, etc?

Reply

[-]

Daveddozey@reddit

I agree. The only way to do that though is to massively increase the cost of flying. A carbon tax for example This would be very unpopular, especially with Redditors who complain about “rip off” journeys That said €120 London to Berlin a month in advance as bahn.de just quoted seems very cheap to me.

Reply

[-]

Daveddozey@reddit

They only way you’ll make that happen is to massively increase the cost of the flight though, and people would not be happy.

Reply

[-]

Salt_Vehicle_5395@reddit

That is such a superficial level overview of the costs. A plane takes way more maintenance and has to run on fuel instead of renewable energy. If we subsidised trains like we did planes they’d already be cheaper

Reply

[-]

Daveddozey@reddit

It’s similitude but it’s real not. The daily cost of owning and maintaining a 16 car train like Eurostar is about the same as owning and maintaining an a320. The airplane can do far more journeys for that annual cost though, although a Eurostar will have more seats. It comes down to if there is demand to fill the seats, and unless you’re able to fill the trains they are unlikely to be competitive.

Reply

[-]

Bladders_@reddit

I'd hope so too... but after having paid £27 for a return ticket from just outside Glasgow to Edinburgh the other day I wouldn't be hopeful.

Reply

[-]

thorny_business@reddit

> It shouldn't be cheaper to fly from Manchester to Amsterdam or Brussels. Why not? Rail infrastructure is expensive, air is free, and modern jets are pretty efficient.

Reply

[-]

Significant-Key-762@reddit

OK, well, wow. Actual good question. I have no answer.

Reply

[-]

tdrules@reddit

I align with how things should be definitely. I just don’t see how rail meets the capacity that air can, especially without HS2.

Reply

[-]

sjcuthbertson@reddit

In principle it could offer you the option of getting on a sleeper train somewhere fairly local to you, and getting off the next morning in Paris or Amsterdam. It probably won't, but it could.

Reply

[-]

zanuxu17@reddit

I think more trains is a bit of a false positive, one of the problems we have is there’s too many trains running on the same tracks, like there’s too many cars running on the same roads!

Reply

[-]

AlertTangerine@reddit (OP)

Thank you for the response. I appreciate ! :)

Reply

[-]

Wooden-Phrase-8258@reddit

As someone who lives in Sydney, this doesn't impact me much too

Reply

[-]

Significant-Key-762@reddit

It doesn't today, but trains and ferries from Circular Quay aren't "perfect". Have you tried to get to/from Manly or Watson's Bay at odd hours?

Reply

[-]

-You_Cant_Stop_Me-@reddit

What if we build a branch in the channel tunnel that goes to Sydney?

Reply

[-]

bonjourmiamotaxi@reddit

I WILL FLOOD IT BEFORE I LET YOU COLONIAL FELONS BACK IN OUR GOD DAMN COUNTRY.

Reply

[-]

AlertTangerine@reddit (OP)

Well.. Marvelling at this wondrous situation from afar, I guess ? Lol

Reply

[-]

Nolsoth@reddit

As a regular visitor to the UK being able to take high-speed trains to other parts of the UK would certainly make it easier for me to explore the country more and spend more money outside London.

Reply

[-]

Real_Radio1365@reddit

Eurostar is not meeting it's mandate in Kent. Kentish people have to go all the way to London then all the way back into Kent to get to Europe. Also it is about time. HS1 is only at 10% capacity.

Reply

[-]

El_Zilcho@reddit

A few years ago a french train company called Thalys bought out Eurostar and rebranded eurostar (with a lower case e) and called all their services that. I hate Thalys for a bad journey with them in 2018. I took my disabled mum on holiday as she wasn't allowed to fly and required taking Eurostar (before the buyout) then connecting on to a Thalys, that was the most expensive part of the journey as they don't have seats for disabled people in class 2 and tickets cost €400 each, ended up paying it, got the Eurostar and changed. People were at the platform to help my mum on etc then when I tried to board a nasty french stewardess shouted me 'no! Go to scum class' I told her I had class 1 tickets and tried to show them to her and she refused to look at them so I went down a few carriages and this more chill member of staff told me to just get on as the train was leaving. After getting on the train and it set off, I worked my way up the train to meet back up with my mum and the nasty french woman demanded to view our tickets and walked off with them and came back and said I must get off the train at the next stop, those tickets must be fake, seeing the heated discussion, afterwards the pursar of the train got involved and checked my tickets and asked me to wait and stay on board if the train gets to the next station. He and the nasty french woman go to the vestibule and have an argument, he then returns to me and says that the tickets are indeed valid and once the train ride is finished to make a complaint with head office. For the rest of the 6 hour journey that woman was glaring at me being difficult when ordering food saying stuff is out of stock etc even though others after me were ordering it and getting what they ordered and practically throwing the food at me etc. I don't know why she was so nasty to me. In the end I got to my destination, made my complaint and got a refund (just for my ticket on that leg) and the return journey was actually pleasant but that interaction makes me hate Thalys and the rebranded eurostar and welcome anything that makes that company's life difficult.

Reply

[-]

Chuck_The_Lad@reddit

Why not?

Reply

[-]

Scarboroughwarning@reddit

Cost....it always killed it for me. 8 love train travel, hate air travel. But every time I've considered it, the numbers are scary.

Reply

[-]

caiaphas8@reddit

How will they run high speed trains to UK cities? We cancelled the high speed train plan

Reply

[-]

WelshBathBoy@reddit

HS1 still connects to the national rail network, what was cancelled was the link between HS1 at st pancras and HS2 at Euston

Reply

[-]

caiaphas8@reddit

The connections to Leeds and Manchester where also cancelled

Reply

[-]

WelshBathBoy@reddit

Point is trains from the channel tunnel can still use the west coast main line, east coast mainline and midlands mainline without needing to use HS2. The Eurostar trains can get to the north of England and Scotland, they would just not be able to go as fast as they do on HS1 - 110/125mph vs 186mph.

Reply

[-]

999hologram@reddit

There are actually 5 "higher-speed" lines going from London so would just use them I assume. Even HS1 is split into 2 sections, only after Ebbsfleet is where you hit true high speed.

Reply

[-]

morriganscorvids@reddit

very good

Reply

[-]

EverythingIsByDesign@reddit

Cancelling the link between CTRL and HS2 was one of the most short sighted decision of the whole HS2 debacle. I'm sure people will chime in telling me how border control made it unworkable but alas I still hope for a future where there is a smoother border between Britain and Europe

Reply

[-]

MrNobody111111@reddit

I took a train from Edinburgh to London once. It wasn’t bad, but it was the last time. Next time I’ll only take a plane. There’s no reason to spend the whole night on a train if I can cover the distance in 1–2 hours by plane, and even cheaper.

Reply

[-]

Realistic-River-1941@reddit

I think the report has confused through ticketing with through trains. Through trains are incredibly unlikely, for a whole range of technical, commercial and political reasons.

Reply

[-]

helpnxt@reddit

I don't know the details of this rival but I want to use the Eurostar but living in the north west the cost of it and the cost of just getting to London is far too much when I can just fly from Manchester

Reply

[-]

Numerous_Green4962@reddit

The HS1 link and tunnel are a larger gauge profile than most of the UK network. so it would be limited to narrower coaching stock like the Pendolino and Voyager not the high-speed rolling stock they run in Europe, it would also potentially cause train/platform interface issues on the continent as you would end up with larger gaps between the train and platform, I don't know the platform height standards but it could result in a large height difference as well. Not insurmountable issues but also not cheap ones to address, hence why there are so many out of spec platforms in the UK as is.

Reply

[-]

Kharenis@reddit

Sleeper trains across Europe would be amazing. My only gripe with the Eurostar is how expensive it is compared to flying (ignoring the cheap tickets at awkward times). It is mighty convenient though.

Reply

[-]

wiggidywelder@reddit

It sounds great in theory but if in reality I need to get on a train to London, then fuck about on the tube to get to Stratford when I could just get a flight that will probably take a quarter of the time then I’m choosing that. Unless the price is so cheap that it makes the long travel times worth it. Really Stratford international needs a proper link up to other national railway lines and whilst Londoners seem quite happy to put up with a bit of disruption if it’s going to benefit them they couldn’t give the slightest fuck about anything that will benefit the rest of the country.

Reply

[-]

sjintje@reddit

You can go to Paris for £75 next Tuesday. If you live in London, have baggage, and can book in advance, it's cheaper than flying (it's a tenner at each end to get to the airport as well). City centre to city centre, generally easier boarding requirement. ,aim issue is the departure lounges are overcrowded and lack enough seats.

Reply

[-]

pack_of_wolves@reddit

If you are from outside London not so much. Getting to st Pancras is so expensive and trains are unreliable. Living even two hours by train from St Pancras practically means you need an overnight stay on London or you are paying through the nose for a early morning train.

Reply

[-]

liseusester@reddit

I mean ... that really depends! I'm taking the Eurostar in October and I'm getting the 9.26am from York which gets me to London for 11.37am, and then I'm on the 1.30pm Eurostar. Enough time between trains to stretch my legs, grab a sandwich and check in. My train ticket cost £26 and my Eurostar ticket was £75.

Reply

[-]

my-comp-tips@reddit

Being on the South Coast we could avoid London completely and drive to Ebbsfleet near Dartford to get the Eurostar. Unfortunately this was stopped.

Reply

[-]

DrHydeous@reddit

The regulations for what is allowed through the tunnel greatly restrict what stock is allowed to run, but if you can get around that (either by convincing the UK and French governments to change the regs, or by acquiring stock that matches the current regs) then ... well, there were originally plans for exactly what you're talking about. In 30 years several companies have floated the idea, and not one of them has managed to make it work.

Reply

[-]

CodAdministrative765@reddit

Being Northern, Eurostar from Glasgow/Edinburgh/Manchester would be good, apart from almost certainly having to change to a rail replacement service at Preston or Crewe.

Reply

[-]

RangeMoney2012@reddit

direct trains to Denia (for Ibiza) would be nice.

Reply

[-]

WhatNoAccount@reddit

Capitalism just doing its thing

Reply

[-]

el_diablo420@reddit

I would rather take the train than fly, any day of the week. This would be great

Reply

[-]

GevanS__@reddit

Would it not be easier to just finish hs2 and improve on the Eurostar? A whole new tunnel seems so pointless when one extra train might suffice

Reply

[-]

BeautyAndTheDekes@reddit

Any train that would get me to the rest of Europe without having to faff on getting to London first would be incredible. Maybe somewhere like Edinburgh or Manchester to start, then branching out to more cities would be great.

Reply

[-]

Due_Ad_3200@reddit

> ‘I think it would be great to be able to buy a ticket from Manchester to Marseilles, from Birmingham to Brussels, or from Peterborough to Paris,’ Mr Quine said. I suspect that "buying a ticket" from one city to another might not necessarily mean the same thing as getting a direct train.

Reply

[-]

ignatiusjreillyXM@reddit

That was part of the original plan in the 90s, some rolling stock was even built for it, and the existence of Stratford International station (at which no international traffic have ever called) is because of that ..... But the rise of budget airlines after the EU liberalised flight regulations, shortly before the Eurostar opened, made it completely unviable. The trains built for the services that were envisaged were used for a while on the East Coast Main Line and then sold to France.. I can't see how it could work, as the fares would have to be so high that the use would be minimal .

Reply

[-]

Celebration_Dapper@reddit

I was under the impression that all the Nightstar rolling stock ended up with Via Rail in Canada. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance\_(railcar)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance_(railcar))

Reply

[-]

ignatiusjreillyXM@reddit

You're right there. It was the "North of London" class 373s (intended for daytime services, I think to Leeds and Manchester") that I was referring to. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_Eurostar

Reply

[-]

kj_gamer2614@reddit

I mean until maybe Birmingham with HS2 it might be worth it, but beyond that it would take so long that almost no one would bother, and most would just fly with that being as expensive if not cheaper compared to even just London to Paris routes

Reply

[-]

rezonansmagnetyczny@reddit

I don't think the Europeans could cope with the delayds

Reply

[-]

Daveddozey@reddit

Clearly you’ve never used the train in Germany

Reply

[-]

thecuriousiguana@reddit

This was always the promise. But there are a few problems. In Europe you can turn up and go, because of Schengen. You don't need lengthy passport queues and you don't need the infrastructure at the station to support them. For as long as the UK isn't in Schengen, you can only run trains from major terminal stations with large concourses and secure areas to hold passengers after security. This means you have bottle necks, limited options for stations or extremely expensive new builds. The question therefore is "can St Pancras support more passengers?" and largely the answer is no. So are you dropping Paris routes for others? St Pancras itself is a limiting factor by location. We went to Paris recently by train. Getting 4 people from Gloucestershire to central London was £240 return with the Tube to navigate with luggage, or £230 by taxi direct, or would cost over £500 to park. It's just not very convenient unless you're within the M25 Related to this is that because French customs is this side of the channel, and because the trains are permanently past security, they also have to be stored in a secure area. There is limited space for more trains. Eurostar's argument against other companies hinges on this - that there isn't space in the depot. It would be vastly expensive to build more. Now, I'm sure Eurostar are overstating this to fend off competition, but there is still a limit. Finally, because we didn't just bite the bullet and sort all of this out in the early 90s, budget airlines have taken over. So the train can't compete with a £50 return to Europe. So sure, I would love the UK to be integrated into the European rail network. I would prefer to travel by train. But it's much more expensive, can only have limited services and remains tied to central London.

Reply

[-]

Daveddozey@reddit

It’s not just Schengen. And you could have on train checks if we were so enamoured with the daily mail. The even bigger problem is the pointless airline style security. The stuff which stops you taking screwdrivers, for no reason at all.

Reply

[-]

Clarkie_8@reddit

Whoever opens up the Ashford stop again has my support. Eurostar having a complete monopoly has not been good.

Reply

[-]

ZBD1949@reddit

HS2 should have already run to Ashford to hook up with Eurotunnel and avoided London in the first place

Reply

[-]

Daveddozey@reddit

High speed services running Manchester/birmingham/old oak common/stratford/tunnel and beyond would have been brilliant. Daily trains to Geneva, Amsterdam, Frankfurt, Paris from places like Manchester/Edinburgh/Ledds with easy cross platform changes giving decent service But we can’t have that as we insist on severity and passport checks.

Reply

[-]

CinciyiduHajimet@reddit

Eurostar costs £150 one way, so I wonder if they'll compete in pricing otherwise what's the point

Reply

[-]

CJBill@reddit

Nah it doesn't. Went this summer and it cost me £290 return for a family of four.

Reply

[-]

Salt_Vehicle_5395@reddit

I got one for £60 in November. When accounting for trains to the airport and extra baggage I think Eurostar actually worked out cheaper

Reply

[-]

CinciyiduHajimet@reddit

I wanted to buy a ticket to Germany, trainline displays ~150 for one way. You have to buy way far in advance to get them that cheap

Reply

[-]

CJBill@reddit

Same as buying a rail ticket in the UK. Buy a last minute ticket and you'll get rinsed. Buy ahead and you'll pay less. Same for flights... As it happens, we ended up on the Eurostar as it worked out significantly cheaper than flying and with more flexibility when it came to arrival days (we were travelling from Manchester to Bordeaux during the summer holidays).

Reply

[-]

DeapVally@reddit

That's not really true. You can get good deals on UK trains a week in advance, hell, even the day before. I guarantee you didn't book your Eurostar tickets a week in advance!

Reply

[-]

CJBill@reddit

No, I bought them a while in advance; personally I don't book the family summer holiday the week before. When we were looking at them they were cheaper than flying. That's just the way it is. IIRC flying when we wanted cost around £1200 plus baggage. The train was £120 return to London, £290 return to Paris and then £380 Paris to Bordeaux, for a grand total of £790. Also allowed us to be a lot more precise about our dates rather than a flight a week.

Reply

[-]

Kubrick_Fan@reddit

I live near Ashford International, we had the Eurostar here for years, until the pandemic and Brezit took it away. All I want is for it to come back to Ashford

Reply

[-]

ServerLost@reddit

Could we not work on connecting the north to the north first then work about getting to Hamburg.

Reply

[-]

fishyrabbit@reddit

Brilliant. There is a factory in Marseille that I have to visit twice a year for work. A direct train to Marseille would make sense for me. Quicker and more pleasant than flying.

Reply

[-]

IlIIllIlllIIIllI@reddit

Quicker? Really?

Reply

[-]

fishyrabbit@reddit

Yep. From where I live is a direct train to Euston, hop across to kings cross. Then in Marseille it is a walk to my hotel/where I need to get to. No parking, no airport transfer, city centre to city centre. It might take longer compared to flight times but add in all the other bits and the restrictions on baggage and what parking at airports costs. Chuck in some WiFi and a decent seat and I am sold.

Reply

[-]

sakmentoloki@reddit

Eurostar is expensive and takes longer than flight. I just fly, I have as of yet had no reason to use the eurostar

Reply

[-]

Bright_Software_5747@reddit

Some competition would be good, Eurostar is so much more expensive than just flying in many cases.

Reply

[-]

Revolutionary_Pierre@reddit

Competition in the industry is needed. Yes we're jaded by capitalism, but on the most basic principle of open market, the last thing consumers/tourists etc need is one company holding a monopoly. A monopoly company doesn't have to reduce prices, increase quality or do much of anything because they're the only company doing it. People will pay, regardless. Eurostar competes with airlines, but it's model is that is ostensibly quicker than a flight and more classy, hence the bigger ticket price too. Logostically, a high speed train from London to Paris is on paper, more expedient and comfortable. With the rising cost of airline tickets and fuel et al, competitors can move into Eurostar's turf and undercut them, at least in the early stages.

Reply

[-]

Lammtarra95@reddit

You might have misread the article. It seems to be saying that passengers can buy through tickets from wherever they live but the trains that go to Europe will still leave from Stratford International (which is in East London, where the Olympics was) as opposed to having to buy separate tickets from home to London and then from London to Paris. Oh, and how will passengers get to Stratford International? One obvious route is via St Pancras, where Eurostar terminates. So the new service's pitch is to avoid St Pancras by using Stratford International, which you get to from St Pancras. I am struggling to see an upside. It might save 30 seconds buying tickets, and perhaps competition will reduce prices.

Reply

[-]

wbeckeydesign@reddit

Pretty sure the "international" is becuase Eurostar used to stop at Stratford on the way to St Pancras, same as Ebbsfleet and Ashford.

Reply

[-]

JazzlikeTradition436@reddit

It's because international trains stopped at Stratford International during the Olympics.

Reply

[-]

JazzlikeTradition436@reddit

I live in the East of England and Stratford International is much easier to get to for me than St Pancras International. From where I live, you have to take a train to Stratford, then make your way to a really expensive train from Stratford International to King's Cross before going to St Pancras International.

Reply

[-]

fieldviewmousehouse@reddit

Getting a through ticket should/could mean it's not your fault if the first train is delayed so you miss the second train. I would hope with a through ticket if your train to London is delayed, you should be able to go on the next available Eurostar

Reply

[-]

deeplytired@reddit

Stratford International is far easier than St Pancras for anyone living to the East of London or on the Elizabeth line. Also the departures lounge at St Pancras is horribly overcrowded.

Reply

[-]

172116@reddit

>I am struggling to see an upside. It might save 30 seconds buying tickets, and perhaps competition will reduce prices. It saves you making a claim on your travel insurance when your train to London is late and you miss your cross-channel train?

Reply

[-]

soondbokie@reddit

Mind you, that terminal bit at St.Pancras can be like being in a Sardine tin. If they make the terminal better at Stratford (with better border control in terms of efficiency at peak times) then I'd certainly consider it. Might ease congestion at St.Pancras with competition, but probably marginal upsides. We have to get to London first (from Edinburgh) so having to get to Stratford isn't that much of a big deal in the grand scheme but, aye, would prefer just to leave from St.Pancras.

Reply

[-]

mr-tap@reddit

Surely some people would get to Stratford International station via Stratford Station (eg Elizabeth line)

Reply

[-]

Lammtarra95@reddit

Sure, some would, but it is surprisingly difficult to get to Stratford International even from Stratford, and you end up on a bus or walking the last bit. Even though it looks like there is a DLR connection from Stratford to Stratford International, it is really a separate station.

Reply

[-]

cine@reddit

It's like a 10 min walk through a shopping centre, not that different from navigating from the depths of the KX Northern line to the actual St Pancras platforms. Or you can take the DLR one stop.

Reply

[-]

Ok-Salary3550@reddit

> It's like a 10 min walk through a shopping centre If I'm going abroad, I will have luggage. I do not want to walk ten minutes through a shopping centre with luggage.

Reply

[-]

AlertTangerine@reddit (OP)

It is the title of the article..

Reply

[-]

Lammtarra95@reddit

>*It is the title of the article..* OK. I believe the headline writer got it wrong. The Gemini boss talks about buying tickets from the provinces, but talks about trains from Stratford International. The only expansion of the train routes discussed is at the European end.

Reply

[-]

Plugged_in_Baby@reddit

Yes to more trains. Make competition work. Last time I checked 2 return tickets to Paris were £800. Absolute madness.

Reply

[-]

Jaded_Truck_700@reddit

If you book your ticket at the last minute maybe it will be close to this price. If you have to book last minute but have flexibility you can use eurostar snap, you can currently get a ticket for sometime between 1pm and 8pm tomorrow and an am or pm return on Friday for 2 people for £200. If you book in advanced for a specific train it's almost always much much cheaper than £800 for 2 people return. There are so many options way below the price you quoted

Reply

[-]

Plugged_in_Baby@reddit

This was me looking from February for a weekend away in May, and no, there were no cheaper options.

Reply

[-]

KleinValley@reddit

Manchester to Copenhagen here we come!

Reply

[-]

dbxp@reddit

I'm surprised the tunnel isn't already at capacity considering when I've taken the Eurostar it's always been packed. If Eurostar is refusing to use the full capacity I see no problem opening it to other companies

Reply

[-]

Daveddozey@reddit

Our insane security and passport rules put a stop to that.

Reply

[-]

hhfugrr3@reddit

Not sure how they're going to run high speed trains all over the UK without high speed rail! They're fine on HS1 to London, after that they're a bit stumped.

Reply

[-]

pickindim_kmet@reddit

The biggest benefit to a rival would be to drive prices down because, as you expect, domestic British trains and especially Eurostar trains can be awfully priced. Book in advance and it's £40-50 at best for that 2 hour ride under the sea. Book within a couple of weeks or on the day and it could easily go up past £200. It's an impossible service if you need to go somewhere short notice.

Reply

[-]

Jacktheforkie@reddit

Passenger service from Folkestone would be nice

Reply

[-]

Didsburyflaneur@reddit

The initial plan for the channel tunnel was for international services to run from Manchester and Birmingham, but they were cancelled with the rise of low cost airlines and increased security/passport regulations making them uneconomic. As a Manc I’d support direct services to the continent but I think we’re a way off that happening. Maybe if HS2 is ever finished this far there might be capacity for direct services via Stratford and space at Piccadilly for the security needed, but I’m not optimistic. HS2 has been designed without a link to HS1 that would facilitate that, and although one could be built it likely would be very expensive.

Reply

[-]

markvauxhall@reddit

The infrastructure is there today to route trains from the West Coast Mainline to Stratford International and onwards to Paris. The downside is that it involves running (briefly) on London Overground lines via Camden Road. So you'll have this weird part of the journey where the train would basically slow to a crawl for ten mins. You'd still need passport control etc at departing stations if you did through services from elsewhere in the UK.

Reply

[-]

Didsburyflaneur@reddit

You’d also have to use the WCML all the way from Manchester/Birmingham, which will take an hour longer than via HS2 (when that opens).

Reply

[-]

sheepandlambs@reddit

It would still have the issue of price I imagine. But yes, it'd be nice. The problem is that anywhere operating it needs to have a dedicated passport control set up, as that's all done before departure.

Reply

[-]

binkstagram@reddit

What would really help is more high speed rail around the country. Massively expensive and disruptive to build in the short term, but has paid off significantly for the places that are on HS1.

Reply

[-]

PangolinOk6793@reddit

They need the monopoly broken. £100+ for a ticket for what you get is outrageously high.

Reply

[-]

cono1717@reddit

Competition breeds innovation.

Reply

[-]

poppiesnlemons@reddit

Yes please bring the prices down

Reply

[-]

spaceshipcommander@reddit

If there was a direct high speed train to mainland Europe from Sheffield I would be on it every other weekend. The sole reason I am jealous of people living in the south east is le shuttle.

Reply

[-]

Significant-Key-762@reddit

Sounds great to me! Bring it on!

Reply

[-]

Throwaway91847817@reddit

Competition seems good

Reply

[-]

Dragon_Sluts@reddit

Nice because they could be sleeper trains given the extra distance travelled. Like Edinburgh to Berlin departing at 22:00 and arriving at 08:00 sounds great. I’d happily pay the equivalent of flight+transfer+hotel night.

Reply

[-]

TomLondra@reddit

The question is confusing. You can't run trains from Europe to London because London is part of Europe.

Reply

[-]

orange_lighthouse@reddit

I think its a great idea. Getting to London to go anywhere else is annoying. I know it'll go via London but it takes an additional step out of it and will be in the ticket price.

Reply

[-]

MercatorLondon@reddit

German DB was testing running high speed trains from London to Europe in the past. The idea was to use Waterloo terminal after Eurostar abandoned it and moved to St.Pancras. Everything was there from infrastructure to security gates.

Reply

[-]

TParcollet@reddit

This is absolutely mandatory. Also, they HAVE to allow pets in the train. Right now travelling with pets in and out of the UK is basically impossible if you are not either rich or travel by car (also, brexit made it 2x harder with stupid vet rules).

Reply

[-]

zippyzebra1@reddit

Something a bit cheaper would be nice.

Reply

[-]

CuriousThylacine@reddit

Nothing to do with me.

Reply

[-]

Cultural-Meaning5172@reddit

From Europe? Do you mean within Europe to the UK?

Reply

[-]

jonewer@reddit

Another one of those Fake Choice false market gimmicks It's still the same trains on the same tracks

Reply

[-]

Conscious_Scheme132@reddit

The odd thing is the population keeps increasing but we don’t have the ‘demand’ for anything or to keep costs down.

Reply

[-]

haemhorrhoidian@reddit

It would be great if they ran from Manchester.

Reply

[-]

CJBill@reddit

Went on Eurostar this summer, Brexit has ruined it. Spent a good hour of being treated like cattle getting through passport control coming and going. Sod that, we'll almost certainly fly next time

Reply

[-]

NuclearCleanUp1@reddit

I love it. I hate flying. Eurostar was expensive and limited

Reply

[-]

Minimum_Possibility6@reddit

Would it work No. West coast mainline is full to capacity. Want to run a train from Birmingham, Liverpool, Manchester or Glasgow to London and then through the tunnel. You would be stuck with slower speeds bottlenecks etc even if you could get the slots to do item HS2 was designed to relive capacity, without it running fully to London and up to Manchester you just don't get the capacity freed up to run something like this. Let's say I want to go Birmingham to Paris or Birmingham to Frankfurt which are both business routes that are done, you are competing with planes You still need to do passport controls up front in a segregated area unless you make people change trains in london. The flights are not that long either so you have the airport wait time plus flight time to compete with. I would imagine over the distance because of the network speed being lower that it wouldn't stack up

Reply

[-]

ab00@reddit

Never going to happen. Eurostar was *meant* to run from other cities originally. Gauging issues aside the infrastructure and staffing for security and immigration doesn't exist in other cities and would cost ££££ to put in. The same goes for Stratford International, despite the name it doesnt have any of it. It would also have to compete with price as well as just speed and that's hard with the low cost airlines who are all over the UK in regional airports. Ashford would be easier as they've used it before.

Reply

[-]

j0nnnnn@reddit

They'd need to build passport control, security etc wherever they set up alternate platforms which will probably be prohibitively expensive in most places. Hopefully just having some competition going from London will make it a better value experience.

Reply

[-]

fROM_614_Ohio@reddit

I live in Leeds. If competition brings down the cost of rail travel, I hope it happens. I frequently use Northern Rail, LNER, and Grand Central, and they are all very expensive in comparison to Europe fares.

Reply

[-]

newnortherner21@reddit

I think there will be a lot of things done to make it as difficult as possible for it to start. I do think there will be a demand for certain direct services, as has been shown by Eurostar with the addition of Rotterdam and Amsterdam in recent years.

Reply

[-]

CongealedBeanKingdom@reddit

It would be great but sadly I can't see it happening. Do the European trains not need a different width track or something? We can't even get electrified lines up here so no chance.

Reply

[-]

crucible@reddit

No, but the “loading gauge” (the width and height of the train) is larger in Europe.

Reply

[-]

LovelyKestrel@reddit

European trains can be wider (width of the train, not width of the track), but trains built to the British width can run on European tracks. On the other hand HS1 is built to European standards so that isn't an issue for trains just going to Stratford. Freight trains already run much further north in Britain (and much further east in Europe)

Reply

[-]

CongealedBeanKingdom@reddit

Yet we can't even have high speed rail. Let's face it the prices for going anywhere in Europe by train starting in the UK would be bankrupting level expensive anyway

Reply

[-]

aussieflu999@reddit

Manchester to Germany would be great.

Reply

[-]

BookMingler@reddit

You’d have to have the right gauge for high speed trains across the country which given the state of HS2 seems… unlikely. If there’s an option to book a single ticket to somewhere in Europe? Great, this is annoying to do right now.

Reply

[-]

oblongmouth@reddit

It would make a significant difference to me, living in Manchester. The price of the train to London is often more expensive than the Eurostar, and there’s no obvious sync between the trains to London & onward to Europe from St Pancras. If I could get the train from town direct to Europe I’d fuck the plane off altogether, as a beer and food nerd I’d be able to load up on all the good stuff without getting stung for baggage charges!

Reply

[-]

Huffers1010@reddit

Fine, but won't it just be ludicrously expensive, far more expensive than flying, as it is now? I've only ever done Eurostar a few times, and always when someone else was paying. I'd far rather get the train to Brussels, say, but flying is so much cheaper, at least under the circumstances I have to use it.

Reply

[-]

YsoL8@reddit

I think it has no chance of being built Phase 1 will be the part that benefits London and westminister will treat the rest as nothing ore than a paper exercise to try to justify it.

Reply

[-]

dontbelieveawordof1t@reddit

Its a great idea.

Reply

[-]

GreatBigBagOfNope@reddit

More trains more good. Wish it was even pretending to connect literally anywhere else as well as London, but as this country is allergic to developing anywhere at even a consistent pace with (parts of) the capital it will have to do.

Reply

[-]

Dismal_Fox_22@reddit

It takes me longer to get to London than it does to fly to anywhere in Europe. I’ll probably do the tunnel once one day for the novelty but it really isn’t something that factors into the lives of anybody I know.

Reply

[-]

chi-93@reddit

What do we think about a Eurostar rival running trains from Europe beyond just London?? I guess we think it would ok, as as long as it’s cheap enough??

Reply

[-]

Radiant-Big4976@reddit

Competition is always good. It leads to better service and lower prices.

Reply

[-]

AutoModerator@reddit

**Please help keep AskUK welcoming!** - When repling to submission/post please **make genuine efforts to answer the question given**. Please no jokes, judgements, etc. - **Don't be a dick** to each other. If getting heated, just block and move on. - This is a strictly **no-politics** subreddit! Please help us by reporting comments that break these rules. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*

Reply