Captains, as an FO how do I not piss you off?

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FlyingSpectacle@reddit

If your visual approach is turning into soup sandwich, please don’t try fixing it with the heading bug and vertical speed. Just disengage the autopilot and fly the thing

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F1shermanIvan@reddit

Do you work at my airline haha?

The amount of people I fly with that can't fly a circuit, and are always on AP in the downwind, is alarming.

We are landing at home base; there's a city, islands, lakes, all these visual references... stop activating the approach and needing it to turn base. Look out the WINDOW.

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YakVivid6538@reddit

Yeah but see if I put it in HDG and V/S first, and manually set it to 15° of bank, and dial the airport elevation and turn the FPV display on and put it into CWS Pitch mode, and

end of recording

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FlyingSpectacle@reddit

I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted, it’s a thing

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HawaiiClipper@reddit

please don’t try fixing it with the heading bug and vertical speed.

so you're saying I should recruise it to get it back in VNAV path?

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nonocare@reddit

Know the books…all of them…. Fly standard. Understand whether Captains are offering technique (fantastic) or alternate procedure (not cool).

Don’t “be cool” and try to be fast or take shortcuts. Slow is smooth. Smooth is fast. Ask questions. Not all the time. But if you see something you don’t remember or recognize, ask the question. Don’t hide what you don’t know. A dumbass with a good attitude can grow into a fine pilot. A rockstar with a shitty attitude, is done. He/she will fly alone their whole career, with their partner waiting for them to screw up. And kinda hoping they do.

This standard approach makes YOU the leader in the cockpit. Every Captain will have an opportunity to match your level of professionalism or invite your valid question of “where do I read about this technique?”.

Don’t be a smug know-it-all. Some technique is worth learning. If you’re a solid, standard pilot, who sets a strong example and is pleasant and humorous to fly with—You’ll be awesome.

[Former Learjet 135 CP, 121 75/767 Capt/Check Airman. G550 Contract PIC. ]

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Weak-Pea8309@reddit

Wow..Nathan was right..

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OverallPreparation65@reddit

I’m an FO, but I’ve also been at it for a little bit. My go to approach which leads to 99% positive outcomes is to work harder than expected and try to anticipate the needs of the captain. That doesn’t mean being the boss or trying to be a right seat captain, it means having information ready when the CA requests it, monitoring what the captain puts into the mode select, doing basic housekeeping like having the flight deck ready to go when the CA arrives. Then, most importantly, always loop the CA into your decision making chain. If you see a potential threat or if you are worried you are in the process of making an error, ask the CA what he or she would do. It build the confidence of the CA because now they feel important and feel like they have an opportunity to pass on knowledge, and it’s a great opportunity for you to learn something.

Also, to your post: CA’s don’t care if you blow an ATC read-back. They do it as much as anyone. Just have humility and be a valuable asset on the flight deck.

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Soft_Obligation_7890@reddit (OP)

Awesome reply thank you for that. can you give me examples of stuff you’d have ready for the captain like you mentioned?

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OverallPreparation65@reddit

Examples will vary based on where you work, but things like sending for weather, getting landing data, even cockpit prep like water bottles, wipes, and trash bag. Just keep an eye on what your captains do and then try to do as many of those things as possible before they have to do them. Obviously while respecting the different roles.

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One_Spirit6702@reddit

If you’re gonna suck, bring some knee pads

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schphinct@reddit

As a Capt, the only thing that irks me is when there’s stuff going on from the right seat and I’m not “looped in”. Changing stuff in the box, having chats with dispatch, or throwing switches without letting me know. We ARE a crew, but I’m ultimately responsible for everything that happens on the plane-so please let me know what you’re doing over there! Thank you!

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hawker1172@reddit

To add to this CA and FO are both ultimately responsible so the open communication of what’s going on needs to go both ways.

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PullDoNotRotate@reddit

They’re going to bang and hang you both, but the Captain is going to get banged harder. Because they’re the final authority, and the FO isn’t.

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hawker1172@reddit

Doesn’t matter. You’re both getting banged.

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PullDoNotRotate@reddit

failure to understand core concept noted

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hawker1172@reddit

Roger

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AJetpilot@reddit

This. Every now and then, I'll fly with an "autotuner." They're PF, but for whatever reason, they listen to the frequency changes in our sector and put one of those frequencies in the standby. Now, without knowing which direction any of these airplanes are going, the frequency is often incorrect. Every now and then, they'll get it right, though. Then, center hands us off, I'll look down at the frequency in the standby, and I'll say "Um that was our last frequency, you sure about that?"

More often than not, the "extra help" is more of a distraction. But if you're going to do it, ask first, or at least let the other guy know.

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CompassCardCaptain@reddit

Pilots will bitch about literally anything.

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Dangerous_Mud4749@reddit

Very fair.

There's one exception though that reduces my courtesy level to a minimum. If I'm PF and the assigned captain (as PM) just starts randomly flipping switches or making FMC entries, not by SOP but from preference... well let's just say I'll be looping them to the absolute minimum extent permitted by SOP.

Don't like it boss? It sucks when one crewmember acts like they're going solo doesn't it?

But I'd prefer to have a PIC to whom I can give full courtesy without feeling like a doormat. It's much better all round.

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JT-Av8or@reddit

The only thing that annoys me is misprioritization of things. Like when it’s your leg, and we’re climbing out and it’s turbulent as hell and you’re just chatting away about your weekend and we’re doing 330 knots heading right into a the tops of a cumulus. Like 1) stop talking 2) slow down so the FA’s don’t hit the ceiling 3) let’s deviate shall we?

Other than that, not much bothers me.

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Systemsafety@reddit

Not actually your job. Many years ago a wise captain I knew summarized CRM by saying "it's the captain's job to keep the first officer happy and the first officer's job to keep the captain from writing letters." I think he's absolutely right. If the captain can't handle that they need to find another occupation.

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Jaimebgdb@reddit

You know, some Captains would piss each other off if they were flying with other Captains. Hell they’d even piss themselves off if their clone was flying with them. So don’t try to please the Captain too hard. Just do the job and stick to SOPs, the rest comes with experience.

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Albert_ll@reddit

Exactly. Your job is to know systems, procedures, and SOP's down cold. (Better than the Captain) As far as being communicative when it's your leg, it never hurts to be a "talking autopilot." Lastly, when you are high and fast over a fix, remember this: If you get down to your assigned altitude 5 miles early, the company will pay for the extra fuel burn. If you get down to your altitude late, the company will not pay your fine. Newbies need to consciously arrive early until they really know their airplane.

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CoolStage5238@reddit

Totally agree. I’ve just recently stopped judging myself so harshly as a regional FO. I always try to do my best, but we all make mistakes and have bad days.

On my last trip I had a couple good landings one decent one and one pretty crappy one, but it was still safe and totally fine. The captain had about the same luck with his landings albeit his good ones were better than my good ones lol.

Throughout the trip made a few small mistakes that he caught and he made one or 2 that I caught. I’m learning that It’s not a big deal. Just do the job and follow sop’s like you said

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slidellian@reddit

When two captains are on a flight, if bob is assigned left seat and Sharon in the right seat, can Bob switch with Sharon if she agrees?

In a captain / fo arrangement, does the captain ever fly right seat or do they sometimes switch so the fo can get left seat time?

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Paranoma@reddit

For all the people commenting about this happening I must clarify this isn’t allowed in Part 121 ops in the US. It could only happen with check airman but even then is restricted.

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Drunkenaviator@reddit

For all the people commenting about this happening I must clarify this isn’t allowed in Part 121 ops in the US. It could only happen with check airman but even then is restricted.

That is not true at all. I worked at a part 121 startup where we had only captains. It is most certainly allowed.

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Paranoma@reddit

Interesting. Didn’t know that a legacy allows that; IRO’s sure but as an FO on a regular basis… my legacy does not do that.

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Drunkenaviator@reddit

Part 121 contains no restrictions on the practice. Most airlines don't do it (mostly because it's expensive when an FO costs half or less of what a captain does). But there's no regulatory prohibition.

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Vailacs@reddit

Xjt flew captain on captain. Just required doing like one extra landing in the sim.

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Drunkenaviator@reddit

In a captain / fo arrangement, does the captain ever fly right seat or do they sometimes switch so the fo can get left seat time?

Yes. I've worked at a couple of operations where this was the case, and generally we'd switch out so that whoever needed it more was PIC. (Generally newer guys who needed TPIC). Otherwise, it was usually easiest to just have the flying pilot in the left seat.

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RockEmSockEmRoboCock@reddit

This happened at my last shop. Scheduling would assign the more senior pilot as PIC, but some of the older guys would let the younger ones take it for the day so they could build TPIC.

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gosquawkyourself@reddit

That’s a true bro move

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bluntlyhonest1@reddit

Question do you guys refer to it as T-PIC or T.P.I.C?

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Maximum-Scar-3922@reddit

Looks like they refer to it as TPIC. Those others all look like a lot of unnecessary extra typing.

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WithAnAitchDammit@reddit

350hr bug smasher here. TPIC=True PIC?

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nolalacrosse@reddit

Turbine

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WithAnAitchDammit@reddit

Thank you.

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slidellian@reddit

Thank you!

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Apprehensive_Cost937@reddit

I don't know about FAA, but under EASA, you need to be trained to fly in a specific seat. Training captains will typically be trained to fly from both seats, and some airlines might train some/all captains as well, as it gives them more flexibility when it comes to crew scheduling.

Two captains flying together is tricky, and generally avoided as much as possible, unless it's for training purposes.

While I suppose legally you could train a first officer to fly from the left seat, I've never heard of an airline do that (not counting cruise relief PIC), except during command upgrade, obviously.

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Dangerous_Mud4749@reddit

At my former job, Flight Ops assigned the PIC for the sector. No switching allowed, unless you rang a manager and got them to re-issue the Crew Briefing to reflect the preferred assignment.

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Rilex1@reddit

My last pattern was with another captain. We split 6 legs in half so we both goth to enjoy sitting in the right seat and playing with your phone.

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slidellian@reddit

That’s pretty cool. I can imagine some guys might be more of a stickler than others

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FlyingSpectacle@reddit

Dude this is bang on. I fly at a company with co-captains and FOs, we’re captain heavy. It’s usually flying with another captain that can get annoying 😂

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Greenbench27@reddit

I can confirm that when I’m flying with other captains we get annoyed with each other. I usually bend for the morale of the cockpit because it’s not worth butting heads

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retardhood@reddit

This is the best comment for sure. Some of these guys are so egotistical and off the map, it doesn't matter what you can do. All you can do is agree and act interested like they are babbling child telling you about dinosaurs.

One dude I flew with told me he was "one of the best instrument pilots in the world, because I (him, not me) flew in the Navy." My eyes rolled back so hard I could see the #4 FA

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TuckNT340@reddit

Yes however, if they’re routinely blowing up approaches getting hit and fast… fix that. Foqa calls suck. So… get ahead of the airplane, and follow sops.

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CavalrySavagery@reddit

I've flown with training captains that would piss the fk off other training captains.

Better said, I've flown with training captains that yelled to other training captains while on a line check because they didn't do what he ( trainer) wanted. First hand Cockpit stories as usual... Quite funny when you fly with that guy and you know how's going to be.

I was told: there's only a captain in this cockpit and it's me, if I say you are high go down, period.

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didimentionimapilot@reddit

Accept feedback, don’t make me say the same thing like 10 times, don’t be an asshole. Everything else is fine for me. I usually demonstration the way I like to do things but if you have another way that works, follows SOPs, and is legal and safe I don’t care how you want to do it as long as it gets done.

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Soft_Obligation_7890@reddit (OP)

What do you mean by don’t make you say the same thing 10 times?

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didimentionimapilot@reddit

If the person I’m flying with is constantly making the same mistake after having attention brought to it and I have to repeat myself.

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bingeflying@reddit

If I want flaps just give me flaps I promise I know what I’m doing

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vanillanuttapped@reddit

Don't make my job harder. That's literally all I ask. Show up and do what you were trained to do. I'm not going to hold your hand but if you ask a specific question I'm happy to answer it.

I've been doing this long enough you can't scare me. If you know you fucked up, own it and move on. I've already forgotten about it. First round is on me.

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Khantahr@reddit

I bet I could scare you.

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vanillanuttapped@reddit

I'd like to see you try

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IndependenceStock417@reddit

Crew scheduling wants you to give them a call.

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derdubb@reddit

Capital gains tax is coming for your primary residence and going up for secondary.

Scared yet?

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Khantahr@reddit

All kinds of ways I could do it. Slam the yoke to the stop 200 above minimums in IMC. Turn off an engine at V1. Kill all the generators over the ocean at night. Many ways.

I never said I couldn't scare myself right along with you.

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black-dude-on-reddit@reddit

Hey you hear about social security getting terminated?

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RockEmSockEmRoboCock@reddit

BOO!

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Due-Musician-3893@reddit

Usually it’s the transportation to the hotel that’s a bit scary

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Udurnright2@reddit

Yep, I’m not exactly your boss or supervisor, just the guy who is most responsible if we both f something up. Colleagues in a great profession.

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CaptainRedPants@reddit

I like this guy.

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AutothrustBlue@reddit

FO here. Don’t fly it the way you think the captain wants you to fly. Fly it the way you want to fly and if it deviates from the way the book says to fly it either brief it or knock it off.

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bahenbihen69@reddit

When I hear a voice from the left side saying "Bro just use Vertical Speed" is when I get pissed off. I swear half the people have no clue how to descend.

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Soft_Obligation_7890@reddit (OP)

If vs and some other mode accomplish the same thing I literally can’t stand when I hear this as well

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Sweet-Seesaw-3934@reddit

SOPs are there for a reason. Two professionals up there, not 2 friends. You can't be friends with everyone, but your job is to be a professional.

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airbusman5514@reddit

Don't be Sid

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FlyingSpectacle@reddit

Conversely, as a captain how can I not piss YOU off? I try not to say anything about anyone’s flying unless they’re actually trying to kill me or blatantly not following SOPs

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Bqllzkicker@reddit

Show up on time and when I mean “on time” I mean enough to not looking you’re in a panic trying to get this train moving. Some times we never know how much time we really will need, so just give us some room.

Don’t try and be the smartest person in the room. Don’t try and teach me something. There are tactful ways of showing someone something. Never ever start with “let me show you something” or “can I teach you something.” I probably have seen it or probably not in the mood to go to recurrent. It adds to fatigue.

Build a basis of a relationship up front so the other guy will want to work with you if shit hits the fan. If an FO feels like there’s tension or they could be yelled at for help, they might hang you out to dry. Become a human being and not just an asshole robot. I’ve known FOs let captains box themselves into a corner bc of micromanaging or the like. Basically payback for their attitude.

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thomakob000@reddit

The flap lever hover is the fucking WORST.

Yeah, I want my flaps retracted. But now I’m gonna wait another 3 seconds to call it just so you look like a dumbass leaving your hand there when I didn’t call for it. I don’t need your “suggestion.” I’ll ask for it according to SOP when I damn well feel like it lol

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Shattermage@reddit

Had a captain just last week, during initial climb, resting his hand on the flap lever then going "you want the flaps?"

No, I'm still 10 kts under retraction speed. We got 3 hours left to fly. What's the hurry?

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Simple_Statement5795@reddit

Hmm, not quite. Flap bugs are maneuvering speeds, defined as safe speeds for 40 degrees of bank. If you're straight and level, and above stall speed, the only requirement is the increasing green speed arrow per regs. You're keeping extra drag out and slowing acceleration at acceleration height unnecessarily, which the STAR climb gradients are not designed for.

Notice how your go-around procedure calls for flaps immediately even though you're below flap bug.

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Shattermage@reddit

Our SOP says "at and accelerating above" the bug speeds. So yes, the trend arrow, but also the value at minimum for us.

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YakVivid6538@reddit

Flap bugs are maneuvering speeds, defined as safe speeds for 40 degrees of bank

Not only is this categorically wrong, I don't think the previous poster specified an aircraft.

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myNoninertialReframe@reddit

Apparently some airlines call this “gesture bullying.”

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AJetpilot@reddit

This! Either seat. Do. Not. Guard. The. Flaps. It's annoying as fuck, but guaranteed, you're setting yourself up for an uncommanded flaps movement. There will be some distraction, you'll bite off on an incorrect cue, and you'll move the flaps up or down without the knowledge or command of the other pilot. I've seen it happen.

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Ashamed-Charge5309@reddit

Politics, like religion is best kept quiet like if you suddenly shit yourself. No need to announce it to the world. Not everyone cares to hear a 2-14+ hour "FOX NEWS ALERT" session from the left seat during the whole trip.

Save it for the break rooms on the ground or the private hotel room if you gotta spew that dreck

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poser765@reddit

How not to piss me off as an Fo?

Lighten the fuck up. Most of us know our job and don’t need to be told to do it. If it’s my job to prepare the cabin for take off, trust that I’ll do it without your command. If I’ve clearly forgotten something say something, but don’t remind me to do something at 13000 that needs to be done at 10000.
Read the fucking room. If you’ve been pontificating for the last 3.5 hours and all you’ve gotten from me is “oh wow” and “mmhmm” that’s a pretty good sign I’m done talking about you RV-6 or whatever. Yes you set the tone, but set one that’s comfortable for all of us.
Fucking delicate. I know you can handle all the stuff, but you don’t have to. I’ll try to help out where I can, but if you need something and I haven’t noticed, reach out. Unless I’m in candy crush.
Do not fucking board the apu into airplane when it’s 83 degrees on board with PCA that’s struggling. We will ALL regret it.

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1Hugh_Janus@reddit

All valid points HOWEVER… when we’re way above maneuvering speed and a deck angle of like 4 degrees, I don’t need the flaps out on a 35 mile final. Mf I know when to call for them and I don’t feel like dragging my ass in for the next 20 miles. Now when they slow us to 180? Diff story.

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poser765@reddit

Fair, but in that case he’s free to rest his hand there as long as he wants. Whatevs. Now if he needs to micromanage actively about putting out flaps… you bet your ass I’m complaining about him to my wife later.

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1Hugh_Janus@reddit

Oh sure just don’t look at me annoyed like “you want flaps 8?” - and he seemed all pissy that I hadn’t called for them yet.

I then fired back: atc assigned us 200kts and are vectoring us wayyyyy out (swaps Tcas to below) and look there’s all these planes that are ahead of us on final, so he’s not going to cut us in or slam dunk us. There’s no need to go flaps 8 cause it’s just going to be louder with more vibrations for the pax and we will burn more fuel.

Fo: oh. Ok. Good point.

—I always try to give the reasoning why for better understanding

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FishPilot@reddit

Yeah don’t ask for feedback all the time. That shit is annoying. Just do your job. If you think you’re gonna be high and fast, get down and slow down earlier or ask to give yourself some time to get comfortable.

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Soft_Obligation_7890@reddit (OP)

What’s wrong with asking for feedback? Just curious. In our SOP it says we have to debrief each leg if there’s anything to go over. I usually say “got anything” “nope” and move on with the day.

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FishPilot@reddit

Because it sounds like you have no confidence and therefore, as a captain, I’m now anticipated to become an evaluator. That’s what LCAs are for.

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YakVivid6538@reddit

as a captain, I’m now anticipated to become an evaluator.

Maybe I'm taking this sentence too seriously, but as CA one of your jobs is being a mentor. When I was a FNG I hated when the left seater had absolutely no interest in teaching me how to better fit in or learn some techniques or whatever, just could have been a recording saying "fly it however you want man" whenever I directly asked for feedback. When I upgraded I don't remember one single time I didn't have at least somewhat of an answer for an FO's question.

Yeah if you're asking every five minutes then I'm going to get annoyed and nervous that you actually don't know what you're doing, but there's a reason I'm making $300k over here, and most company's FOMs include mentorship as part of CA responsibilities even if that isn't assumed by common sense.

Inb4 sir this is a Wendy's

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FishPilot@reddit

You’re 100% correct. I’m just saying that, according to OP’s post, if he’s asking after every leg that I’m going to start having serious doubts about OP or the training he’s received and at that point I’m not in a good position to teach as I am not a LCA. I’ll mentor where I can but after every leg? That can’t happen

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YakVivid6538@reddit

I am very thankful that I only really had to be a babysitter once. That guy was rough. The crop of dudes that blitzed out of helicopters straight into 737s with minimum fixed wing time during the big rush definitely had its issues.

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FishPilot@reddit

How long of a trip was yours?

I had a couple but they weren’t bad. The few that I had were mostly single seat guys new to a crew environment and had to understand it’s a crew now.

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YakVivid6538@reddit

That one was just a day turn so it wasn't a huge deal.

I do feel bad for the single seat guys sometimes. That was a bunch of my legacy new hire class and it's a big culture change.

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Soft_Obligation_7890@reddit (OP)

All I’m saying is I’m doing what our SOP says and to debrief after each flight. I seriously don’t think it’s a big deal to ask if there are any debrief items the captain has. Are you telling me to disregard sop?

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FishPilot@reddit

A debrief should only have to include irregular items. If you’re the reason for an irregular item, then acknowledge and fix it. If everything went as planned and there’s no issues, consider the debrief complete or just follow what capt has to debrief.

Your question was: how, as an FO, do I not piss off a capt. Don’t force an answer to a question that was never asked is an answer in this case.

If you want constructive criticism, do what I said above: at the beginning of the trip brief: “hey Capt, I’m gonna be a little more cautious and methodical when it’s my leg as I’m still building confidence, if you got anything for me, please let me know as I’m trying to learn still.”

Or at the end of a trip: “hey man, how’d I do. Anything you’d like to see different? Just trying to get my footing here.”

Be advised though, at the end of a trip isn’t a good idea because at that point, people are just trying to get home.

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FishPilot@reddit

I guess my thing is that I’ll offer advice/feedback when it’s required. To ask after every leg would just be weird. At the end of every trip would be okay and during the initial trip brief, if you say “hey, and criticisms or suggestions, let me know please. I’m still new…”

Then that would be 100% better

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Soft_Obligation_7890@reddit (OP)

I see what you mean. Just was under the impression that since it’s sop required I have to ask at least.

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nineyourefine@reddit

Are you in the US?

If you genuinely have questions, ask, but don't expect the CA to debrief you after every leg. Flip it around and imagine having to debrief the CA after every flight. That shit would get old REALLY fast.

We're not check airman, we're here to do a job, and you are too. Show up, do your job, fly SOPs and don't do something that's going to make my day more difficult. I'm always happy to answer questions, or provide feedback, but if my FO started asking after every leg "Any debrief items?" I'd tell him that this isn't training, and I'm not an evaluator. If there's a debrief item required, you'll hear about it.

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4Sammich@reddit

So much this. I don't care if you slow to 210 at 15-20 miles so you CAN make it right.

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1Hugh_Janus@reddit

Oddly enough we’ll get there faster if we don’t have to go around

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Twarrior913@reddit

If you’re “pissing off the Captain” there’s nothing that you’ll do that won’t piss them off. You’ll do it exactly how they tell you and it will still be wrong.

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1Hugh_Janus@reddit

And that’s when you transfer the autopilot to them “your aircraft”

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YakVivid6538@reddit

Only ever had to do this once. Guy was a known quantity but I was still on probation so I didn't want to make a whole thing about it, just handed it over to him and put him on my no fly list. Never had to deal with him again after that 3-day thank God.

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rckid13@reddit

I've been a captain for almost 10 years now and I can't think of a time an FO has genuinely made me angry. I have had times when as an FO a captain or sim instructor has made me angry though. It seems like most people who are the "I'm always right" types upgrade quick and very much enjoy the left seat.

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Twarrior913@reddit

Very much so. I can really only think of one Captain who was visibly annoyed and acted angry and just pissed off the entire trip. It only took about two legs to realize he was just that kind of guy with anyone he worked with. I was still able to strike up a few conversations with him and get a laugh or two so I considered it a win. I have definitely flown with a few who upgraded likely because they couldn’t handle being wrong lol.

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Junior-Special5159@reddit

fuck man I hate flying with these types. you fly it as the poh says then they say it’s wrong; then you fly it their way and they say you should be following the poh. or they believe in old outdated info that doesn’t apply anymore.

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mountainbrew46@reddit

poh

Hmmm

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ndem763@reddit

Don't you hate when your captain micromanages your carb heat usage

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Dear-Situation6193@reddit

I need to reset on the airbus poh

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OkDoubt1591@reddit

Always insist on coupled approaches. It enhances safety and CRM. Bonus points for maintaining eye contact when coupled.

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NextDoorSux@reddit

Some people are so self-absorbed they fail to see the bigger picture and are far to involved in themselves. In military transport flying I'd see it all the time. Most were pleasant to fly with, but there's always a few that are on a constant power trip. Ironically and more often than not, these types shouldn't be flying paper airplanes. They're usually just not as good as they think they are. Sure, they can pass check rides and go through the motions as long as everything is going as planned, but when shit hits the fan they can't get out of their own way and just do not want to consider someone else's input.

I had the pleasure of a C-5 sim session with one such individual who would not listen to a thing the FE was telling him. There are some emergency situations where the FE is the functional leader and while the ultimate decision is for the aircraft commander to make, if the FE is good at their job you'd better heed what they're telling you. Well, during this particular ride the pilot instructor asked this overly self-indulging douche why he wasn't listening to the FE and his response was "I don't care about anything going on behind my seat".

The whole show was immediately shut down, everyone except this guy was told the day was done and come back tomorrow. We didn't stick around to hear what was said, but some of the other folks working at the facility said it wasn't pretty when they got this guy into the pilot instructors office.

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No-Artichoke-3219@reddit

I flew as an FO for a major airline for 9 years. The captains always saw themselves as mentors, always helpful. I also tried to help captains new to the aircraft, when I had more time on the fleet. Personalities always vary, but SOP was always the norm. Never had a captain fly right seat unless flight standards or line check airman.

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Hot-Half-6309@reddit

I will probably end up with a fleet across a decade or so. Cirrus Vision Jet, Pilatus PC24, G700, Airbus A340-600. My money will be blown flying to banks around the world to check on my money.

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MarthaKingsButtplug@reddit

I'm dating a flight attendant. For the love of God don't be the subject of one of her stories.

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MovieEuphoric8857@reddit

Don’t worry. You’re the next story

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MarthaKingsButtplug@reddit

Well aware.

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Mavtroll1@reddit

All you need to say: 1. Nice landing sir 2. That wind shear in the flare was crazy, I hope I can learn to handle it like that! 3. I’ll buy the first round 4. I’ll take the fat one

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AlainS46@reddit

This guy FO's

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jpcanty@reddit

As a newer captain I fuck hate what these senior grumpy asshats do to you FOs. I had an FO fly from the flight levels down to the approach using only FPA and VS. That’s a way to do it, but FLCH is much easier. Once we were on the ground I asked him why he flew that way. His response, “I’d don’t know I was flying with a lot of senior captains and I don’t wanna be yelled at anymore”. Like Jesus H people, let these FOs fly and learn!

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PLIKITYPLAK@reddit

Not turning off your hot mic in cruise when we are not talking. I just looooove hearing your static.

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SaucyPastaSauce@reddit

From a fellow FO. Don’t be an arrogant asshat, take feedback like a man, and when the time comes agree that the government is taking all of our money.

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retardhood@reddit

LMAO, taxes and libs AMIRITE? also, DA JAB. Want to see my gun/boat collection? Man the good ol days were really great when you could sexually harass the FAs.

Sometimes I mention that I've paid more in taxes in a year now than I made gross at an actual job.... because my paycheck is that much bigger, not the other way around.

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Imaloserbabys@reddit

The government is taking all of our money. I don’t see why anyone would argue with that.

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ChuckyJa@reddit

living the dream

This comment reminds me of an old youtube gem.

Fast forward to 1min 8 sec.

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Much_Importance_5900@reddit

Your link made my Sunday! Thanks!

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Beautiful-Low9454@reddit

Best aviation stop motion in the world

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illimitable1@reddit

Or take it like an adult, regardless of your gender

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IHGrewardsking@reddit

Not wrong about the last sentence

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z0mbeh8r@reddit

Don’t forget about the guns, MY GUNS AND MONEY!

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eclipse278@reddit

My precioussss

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Beautiful-Low9454@reddit

My money!! My money!! Araaauuug!! Living the dream

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MachineBitter4664@reddit

😹

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Adorable-Meeting-120@reddit

Man I will make a great captain someday.

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GoAroundTOGA@reddit

This guy knows.

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Serious_pOoper69@reddit

That guy FOs

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Junior-Special5159@reddit

they are. doesn’t take making $500K to realize that

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LGD1991@reddit

(8 yrs 121 CA experience here)

If you’re here asking this question, you’re not one of the problem FOs. (And in reality, there are very few problem FOs)

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swadeyeight@reddit

Legacy CA here who lived through the 2022-2023 hiring boom where we hired seemingly indiscriminately. I had so many 20 something FOs acting like they were somehow special because they were lucky enough to have perfect timing. Those of us who lived through the post 9/11 years don’t need to hear about how you survived those 18 months at whatever regional you honed your skills at. Anyway, yeah, that’s it. Don’t be cocky. Don’t try to do too much, usurpers are annoying. Don’t assume you’re flying the leg you want. And lastly, hear me out, don’t get high and fast on the approach.

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Mike93747743@reddit

No paperwork. No meetings with the chief pilot. Don’t make fun of my New Balance. Really that simple.

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Facelessroids@reddit

Just be normal. We all fuck up, no one cares

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CaptainJackass123@reddit

I always ask my FOs for two things:

Don’t get slow. No paperwork.

Being friendly is a bonus. Leave egos in the crew room.

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Plastic_Brick_1060@reddit

You're both pilots with the same set of instructions. Be prepared, be yourself and do your job the best you can. I only get pissed off when one of those 3 things aren't happening from the right seat.

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thrawoweyey@reddit

I like flying with “annoying” captains. I take the opportunity to practice my mindfulness skills.

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Simple_Statement5795@reddit

Don't ride the speed brake if your next altitudes are all aboves, let the plane do its thing until you have a hard restriction. Don't mash on the brakes 5 seconds after landing, the autobrakes can stay on until nearing taxi speed, and are way smoother than you.... not to mention if you're landing in a crosswind your rudder pressure causes asymmetric braking which increases heat load by 4x on the side you're pressing. Almost all blown fuse plugs on landing are caused by this.

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EpicDude007@reddit

Early on I had a week with 3 different captains telling me how to fold the paper with our signatures 3 different ways. ROFL Now that I’m much faster and confident in my tasks they sense I don’t give 2 fucks about their opinions. SOP is the goat. TLDR. Be kind and stick to SOP.

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Squish87@reddit

No SOP on ACARS origami. If it’s shit I don’t care, you fold it next time

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ViceroyInhaler@reddit

Man fuck ATC. Their job is to facilitate our needs. If you fuck up a call who cares. Mistakes happen. People hear things wrong. Just be humble and don't argue.

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Beautiful-Low9454@reddit

Team honey badger we take what we want !

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Squish87@reddit

Honey badger don’t give a fuck. I’m hourly. Also I’ve been chewed out before just don’t give me a number to copy

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drotter18@reddit

I fuck up too. Nothing is more annoying than making a mistake, not seeing it for a minute, fixing it myself, landing. Debriefing and the FO goes “yeah I saw you do it wrong”

SAY SOMETHING. Lol. That’s it. We all mess up and are hoping to have long careers. I’ll only chew an FO out for egregious errors and I’ll knock that out in 1-2 min. Clear the situation. And then I’ve moved on.

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mrdrelliot@reddit

Pick your battles.

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JSW_pilot@reddit

I asked my captain this once and he said “…because I’ve been there. We all have at some point”

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bluntlyhonest1@reddit

Two Captains in one cockpit can be like having the Chef, Sous chef, line cooks, dishwasher, owner of the restaurant and the customer all in the kitchen

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Somefungi12@reddit

Just don’t be weird wtf lol

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flyfallridesail417@reddit

Hmm. I’ve been a captain for ~12 of my 21 years at various airlines. I absolutely know I pissed off captains as a green 22 yr old FO. I was a much better FO at my current gig but some guys were born pissed off. As a CA in my current plane going on 6 years, I can’t say I’ve flown with any FOs who truly pissed me off. Maybe two who annoyed me with their personalities. A couple old guys who never upgraded and were kinda afraid of their own shadow but it’s cool, don’t mind holding your hand. Couple newbs that screwed up approaches and I was too chill to tell em “gear down NOW!” but I prolly needed the go around practice anyways. There’s literally not a single FO I’d put on my no fly list if that was a thing for CAs.

There are a few I particularly enjoy flying with, though. They’re all really sharp, and they catch my fuckups more than I catch theirs. They’re interesting people with interesting hobbies I like hearing about. They’re good conversationalists who help pass the hours. They like to be active on layovers and drag my fat ass to the hotel gym, then accompany me to the nearest dive bar and only protest once when I buy the beers. In a number of cases they’ve shared interests with me or we otherwise hit it off and we’ve become good friends outside of work, and then we buddy bid and ski or hike or rent motorbikes on layover, and then they upgrade and call me to bitch about their latest green FO.

I grew up flying single pilot freight and I still fly small planes and gliders single pilot, but for work I couldn’t imagine flying outside a crew environment anymore. I like my coworkers too much.

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scul86@reddit

Don't be this FO, and you'll be fine...

https://youtu.be/VN82J_X7J7A

[-]

74_Jeep_Cherokee@reddit

Former Captain current FO two cents-

As an FO I do it by the book and if they don't like that tough shit.

As a Captain I adapted to my FO and talked to them with my mouth like an adult.

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Pasturepilot@reddit

The ultimate way to not piss the captain off? Upgrade.

Until then it’s a careful balance of professionalism, chameleon, and SOP as you feel out each crew pairing.

I was in the right seat from 2007 till 2024. Bad luck and terrible timing. Setting the tone is great, but as captain I’m already looking in the mirror at times saying “I hope I’m not turning into one of THOSE captains.”

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Glittering-Elk542@reddit

Fly the plane well, don’t talk politics,

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Frosty-Brain-2199@reddit

Talk politics if the captain starts talking politics but make sure you agree with everything they say 😎

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questForIndifference@reddit

Remember , it's always Cat D

https://metro.co.uk/2016/10/31/x-rated-photos-show-british-airways-pilot-performing-sex-act-on-himself-during-flight-6225831/

[-]

Cascadeflyer61@reddit

I really don’t get annoyed anymore, I like to let my FO’s learn from their own experiences.

I generally like to tell them what to expect, they clear you to this IAF on this runway, this STAR expect a shortcut here, then let them figure it out.

I really disliked micromanaging Captains, I have confidence in my FO’s, and I’m seldom disappointed.

[-]

Av8torryan@reddit

As a captain- Your learning- accept that your learning. Don’t be combative and accept feedback either positive or negative.

Know you SOPs. Knowing what you need to do vs making an error is a huge difference.

Don’t be a dick. !

At the end of the day , you proved you can fly and meet standards. As you progress take mimic the captains you like and how they run a flight and learn from them, and the ones you don’t - follow SOPs to a T and nothing can be said .

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UnhingedCorgi@reddit

Correct and this applies to captains just as much

[-]

RescuePilot@reddit

Don’t be constantly asking me “do you want this? Do you want that?” It’s really easy to know what I want, and when I want it, if you just listen for me to ask for it. By all means, if you have a safety concern, speak up, don’t let me land with the gear up, but I have been doing this for a long time and that has not been a problem so far. I know you’ve got a lot of thoughts going on in your head, and feelings about things that need to be happening, but trust that I may be thinking a few steps farther ahead than you and intend to do things on my own schedule. If you are constantly suggesting things that you think I should’ve already done, you’re just distracting me and interfering with my flow. No, I don’t want full flaps on a 15 mile final, and if you wait for me to call for them, you’ll see that everything turns out just fine.

[-]

SMELLYJELLY72@reddit

i’m sure you’re a good stick and rudder but for the love of god brief this shit before i’m wondering if you’re gonna put the gear down anytime soon. keep me in the loop of your grand thoughts.

[-]

texas1982@reddit

Ah. Yes. I've flown with guys like you. I got so sick of him I let him get wildly behind the airplane enough that we had to go around. All because he always waited to the last second to do anything and was ever only in the stable approach criteria when you squinted.

Same guy wanted me to wait to start the second engine until we were number 2 in LGA. That was fun when we weren't ready for takeoff and got resequenced to number 10.

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RescuePilot@reddit

And then everyone clapped?

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texas1982@reddit

No. We all looked like idiots because this guy had an ego bigger than the cockpit could hold. I don't he learned anything.

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hawker1172@reddit

Dont be a loser and simp to change your behavior for each different captain. Be yourself dont worry about what others think.

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SRM_Thornfoot@reddit

Please, don't get snarky with ATC over the radio. The Captain is going to get blamed for it. So if anyone is going to be fool enough to do that, it should actually be the Captain.

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saxmanB737@reddit

I just thought of my FO that got into an argument with the ramp controller during major IROPS. We were one of many aircraft waiting for a gate for about an hour. He gets on the radio to argument that we should have a gate by now, blah blah, do a better job. I wasn’t listening to this and he comes back and tells me how he told them what’s up. Umm no.

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MoreSpoiler@reddit

Just be humble and honest, make conversation and human well

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GustyGhoti@reddit

I’ve heard a lot of stories from captains recently about FOs not being able to take professional criticism 🫣 learn and move on it’s not a personal attack.

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FlyinUte@reddit

Depends. Are you an aspiring pilot influencer who makes at least one reel per trip for your social media channels? If so, there’s nothing you can do to avoid my shit list.

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turbo-steppa@reddit

If you have the emotional intelligence to ask yourself what you could do better to make yourself easy to fly with…. you’re already easy to fly with.

[-]

Burgershot621@reddit

Honestly, truthfully, just do your job and don’t be another passenger. Lazy FOs are the worst. Im a FO now but I was a CA for 4 years at my last job. I could overlook a lot of stuff but as long as my co worker did their job I found it hard to complain. Do your job in accordance with SOPs and the regs. If you find yourself in a grey area, talk about it. See what the other person has to sayDon’t keep anyone in the dark. I respect a crewmember more when they are willing to bounce ideas and issues off of me. Also, know the difference between regular, personal criticism and constructive criticism. You may have just come out of the schoolhouse but someone can drop a nugget of how to do it better and still to the spirit of the regs and SOPs. Some people will just be assholes and there’s nothing you can do to change it. Nod and smile but if something becomes a safety issue, speak up. Too many people have been hurt becuase they didn’t say something. Remember, crew resource management exists and is taught for a reason. Good luck. You’re going to work with a myriad of personalities, approach with an open mind.

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1Hugh_Janus@reddit

Exactly dont be afraid to speak up. “Hey Capt they shorted us on fuel… want me to call the fueler?”

“Hey Capt dispatch has us tight on gas. Want me to tell the fueler to put on an extra 1,000lbs?”

“Hey Capt we’re pushing in 20, and the fuel guy still isn’t here. Want me to call them?”

Communicate and have good situational awareness so you’re both on the same page. We’re both required to get off the ground. Also, don’t talk about planes the whole time. If we’re gonna spend a couple days together, Im probably wanting to know the real you.

[-]

Field_Sweeper@reddit

Yessa masta. No masta.

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LavishnessFun1639@reddit

This thread cracks me up. We deal with the exact same thing in the military. KC-135R Instructor Pilot here. Nothing worse than another aircraft commander (Captain) who sucks at their job. Even more so…..someone who can’t admit they suck or accept feedback. We all fuck up. Own it and buy some Old Fashion’s at the bar. Evaluator, instructor, Captain, First Officer…….just be humble and eager to learn.

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kyleth3pil0t@reddit

Do it by the book man.

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azbrewcrew@reddit

“Clear right. Gears up. I’ll take the fat one”

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texas1982@reddit

Always be ready for the next checklist. You should know what the captain is going to call for and have the flow down before he calls for it if able.

Don't say "speed Checks" when moving stuff. Just silently check and then move it. If you can't do it yet, just say "you're 5 knots fast".

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Brambleshire@reddit

stick to SOP
don't be one of those bumps on a log who doesn't care or pay attention to anything
don't be one of those know it all gods gift to aviation who has too much ego to do walk arounds when asked
keep me in the loop if things You are doing. Bring it up first so I have a chance to chime in.

My ideal FO is a normal polite person, flies SOP, communicative, and good at their job without being an ego case

[-]

JackEnrodiiii@reddit

Chill

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HajiKane@reddit

Fellow FO here. For me, I just fly how I was trained, how the SOP and manual says, and do my best to be a reliable sidekick for my captain, just how I imagine what kind of FO I would want when I become a captain.

But here’s the catch, it’s impossible to please everyone, and you never know when your bad day is. So if you messed up, just accept it, apologize and learn from it. And if you fly with someone you’re not compatible with, at least avoid unnecessary debate unless it’s pretty hazardous.

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lavionverte@reddit

Take the fat one

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Beautiful-Low9454@reddit

Nice job on 10 and two fifty and sir I’ll take the fat one

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PsychologicalAd438@reddit

You gotta be a chameleon.

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FlowerGeneral2576@reddit

Please god put the phone down and don’t be an influencer.

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MmmSteaky@reddit

That you, Kelsey?

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21MPH21@reddit

Don't find (report) a missing non-important screw on the go home leg.

Don't scare me.

If you do something wrong, own it and move on. Don't lie.

New one - shave. Just had someone in my base get busted for this. No idea how "egregious" it was but the CP decided it was worth a delay

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Valid__Salad@reddit

In my limited experience, CAs will give you feedback if they need to. I will say there are some out there who are playing the “I’m too cool for this” card and you don’t want their feedback anyway. The ones worth their salt will let you know where to improve.

Satirically, I flew with a CKA today who said a good FO does things without the captain asking for them, a great FO will think of things before the CA and make it seem like it was the CAs idea.

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Patri_L@reddit

Captains are not to be revered. Just treat them like anyone else. If they get pissed off at you for any reason other than you being a jerk, then they have no reason being involved in a field that requires CRM. Your captain has just as much responsibility to not piss you off.

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discgolfpilot@reddit

135 PIC.
Show up on time in uniform. Don't have me looking for you in the FBO. Fallow SOPs If I am doing something that is out of SOPS you don't think I see something call me out If in any briefing regardless who is PF/PM and something does not sound right, confusing, maybe we could be looking at something differently speak up. As we have slid back into normal hiring upgrade times, understand crying to me won't help

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Designer_Buy_1650@reddit

Let him be the Captain. Be as proficient as possible, but remember he’s the Captain. Don’t contest his decisions unless safety will be compromised or there might be a better way of doing something. Let him be the Captain.

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durrrr___@reddit

Don’t tell me to wear the hat.

Also don’t brag about how you make more money in the right seat on premium pay and that’s why you won’t upgrade. Nobody cares

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InternationalTie504@reddit

Don’t interrupt me when im talking about my family…..and my second family!!

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Anonymous5791@reddit

And never, ever admit you pay more in alimony each month.

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LongBeachTrijet@reddit

Just be like Denzel Washington’s character, Mr Hunter, to Gene Hackman’s Captain Ramsey in Crimson Tide

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NonVideBunt@reddit

Yeah I think being a good FO is an art. You kind of have to adapt since the CA sets the tone for the cockpit. For me, I show up, do my job to the best I can, and don’t sweat the small stuff. I came from the military so it was a little bit of a transition for me.

When it comes to pointing out errors and mistakes, because we all do them, grace and tact go a long way and unless it’s an error that is going to get violated, against policy, or bend metal I usually don’t bring it up and let it ride.

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Frosty_Piece7098@reddit

Just fly the plane, do things by the book. No more, no less.

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Verliererkolben@reddit

Fly it by the book and take constructive criticism. Senior people I flew with growing up said this is just technique and do with it what you will. I fly how I like and always try to build on being a smoother pilot.

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Pussysensor1on1@reddit

Captains have no say on who they fly with. They’re supposed to be professional enough to handle all kinds of attitudes and personalities. FO’s however can select Caps on the so called “no fly” list, which makes sense because some right seaters change their mentality when they become left seaters. They’ve hidden it for so long on the right and they just can’t help themselves anymore while now on the left seat. Just know your stuff, keep it standard and safe and you’ll be fine. And for the hard ones, there is a bunch to see from that right side window… blue skies 😎

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Hdjskdjkd82@reddit

First thing, you can’t please all captains you’ll fly with. Some captains out there are asshats and there’s nothing you should be doing try to please them or avoid pissing them off. It’s the sad truth, and not everyone should be a captain. Do the right thing, and be yourself.

Second, reasonably good SOP following, and avoid being a ‘flap operator’ FO. Meaning, don’t do the absolute bare minimum and only do something when told to do it. As captain we want someone who’s a professional, and most importantly a pilot. We don’t expect perfection and a good captain is always willing to show the ropes and mentor their FO’s. But coming to the flight deck with the ‘I’m only here for the money’ attitude gets old real fast,l makes us feel like the FO’s is just a second autopilot we have to manage, and makes managing CRM very tough.

I think lastly, the FO should never be afraid to be their own advocate. We really don’t like FO’s who know something we don’t know pertaining to the flight. Don’t be afraid to call a go around if it’s clearly unstable, or politely point out mistakes. There is a balance to be struck here, but a FO who just goes along with it is just as bad as a FO who is overbearing. I like to hear my FO’s opinions and concerns, we need to be a team.

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skyHawk3613@reddit

Do your job

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DefundTheHOA_@reddit

You’re gonna annoy people if you keep asking how you’re doing

If they don’t say anything you’re doing well

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Soft_Obligation_7890@reddit (OP)

Just curious, what’s wrong with asking what I can do better?

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iwonder___@reddit

Absolutely nothing wrong with asking how to get better. That other guy is being a prick.

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DefundTheHOA_@reddit

Not after every landing

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jdubz9999@reddit

Find a good balance in your personality. Don’t be too drab but don’t be overly excited either. Being a willingness to learn and improve if you’re new.

[-]

andrewrbat@reddit

Be easy to get along with be competent and make an effort.

We all make small mistakes. Don’t sweat them too much. Take feedback when its given in a reasonable tone.

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Right-Suggestion-667@reddit

Follow SOP, don’t be gods gift to aviation, buy the second round

[-]

rFlyingTower@reddit

This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:

Flying with all kinds of captains I learn that each one has their own set of preferences for how they’d like things done from FMS set up to approach.

I can’t help but think that sometimes when I screw up with things such as an approach (like getting myself high and fast close to the airport unintentionally or messing up a call out, or messing up an atc readback) that I’m seen as an FO who just messes up and sucks. I make sure on the ground to always ask if I could’ve done anything better or different. I get positive feedback most of the time but maybe some guys hold back to be nice? Not sure. Just wanna know how I can be sure to not piss a captain off. You guys have plenty on your plate already.

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