Italy’s PM Meloni ‘disgusted’ over porn site allegedly showing doctored images of her and other high-profile women
Posted by EsperaDeus@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 115 comments
Wedoitforthenut@reddit
I feel bad for women (who will no doubt face an exponential amount more exposure) but faked nudes have been around since before the internet. With high fidelity image and video generation on the horizon, this has become an unstoppable fact of life. Its best for all women to accept and understand that they can't control the perspective, and that they have to be comfortable with their self in the knowledge that what people are seeing is fake.
Neat_Tangelo5339@reddit
That’s a bit of a shitty way to put it
i mean by that Logic things like defamation or even harassment shouldn’t be things to get upset by
i thinks there more than a valid reason to make sure these kind of things are to be prevented
Wedoitforthenut@reddit
Prevented? You can't prevent it. I'm not voting to increase the nanny state. I'm fighting against authoritarianism. That doesn't mean supporting it when it favors me. I'm not a republican lol
Neat_Tangelo5339@reddit
What tf are you blabering on ?
I didn’t say make porn illegal , i said don’t make suggestive material of other people without their consent
Dracogame@reddit
You cannot materially stop people from making suggestive material of others without their consent.
So you better get comfortable with it.
DigitalBladedJay@reddit
Step one: make the punishment for sexual harassment more severe
Step two: make it to where creating such filth as nonconcentual AI porn sexual harassment
Step three: enforce
That easy
Dracogame@reddit
Enforcing is not easy, especially if you want to respect the privacy of people.
Trying to regulate internet will kill it. It’s already been killing it.
Not to mention that as much as I think this is filth, AI porn in general is welcome compared to actual porn, one of the most disgusting and exploitative industries.
WestCoastVermin@reddit
how in the fucking hell do you get comfortable with that?
X0nfus3d@reddit
Behavioral therapy. You start by sharing pictures of yourself on your own terms, with less and less clothes on, until you feel ok with putting up nude pictures at work or around your neighborhood. That way; You take control of the narrative. Best of luck!
SarcasmGPT@reddit
You cannot stop them from making it.
You can stop them from sharing it, and others from accessing it.
alucarddrol@reddit
You can't realistically completely stop any that realistically. You can however, make all of those things a crime, including the making of it. So that when they are caught, the punishment is for each of those crimes rather than only one of them
alficles@reddit
I agree, of, with everyone here saying it's repugnant. But laws are always, always, always enforced for the benefit of the powerful. It's not gonna be well-to-do men with vile images of women who did not consent that go to jail. It will be the school paper's cartoonist that draws Donald Trump with more than the legally permissible amount of butt crack.
Southern-Chain-6485@reddit
You should not make making it a crime, because that's private. Sharing it, specially publicly, it's another matter, which I think is better solved with the civil code than the criminal code (ie, the perpetrator rectifies the damage by paying a significant part of his assets to the victim, rather than face a prison sentence)
isotope123@reddit
That's like saying making cocaine is private. It's a tricky space right now--and undefined by laws, globally and locally--but I don't think you should have the right to reproduce someone's likeness without their consent.
DaddyIssuesTurbo@reddit
The problem is, people can’t make cocaine in their bedroom with a laptop and an internet connection. So it’s easier to police. In the case of drugs, you can police the material components to prevent manufacture (like how Sudafed purchases are tracked in the US.) So in this case, the ingredients are computer hardware, image generation algorithms, consensual porn, and images of public figures. So unless you start clamping down on one of those 4, lawmakers are going to have a very hard time fighting this.
It’s really awful that people are making this and that it’s just another thing women have to worry about, and you’re not going to find many people that say that people should be making this content or should be allowed to. Finding a way to police this without monitoring everyone’s hardware is going to be very, very difficult. And for a lot of people used to the old school internet, the level of oversight that countries are looking at to combat this and other problems is unthinkable.
The other problem is, it would be very obvious if someone was basing it off of a well known celebrity, but if they can find one or two photos of anyone and edit them slightly, and this is going to be nigh impossible to catch.
isotope123@reddit
Don't disagree, but alternatively you could monitor the software. All this content being created is being licenced by companies, and from my limited understating of it everything you create is going back to their servers anyway. Shouldn't be impossible to police.
Wedoitforthenut@reddit
Nah, the LLMs are open source. You can download the image/video generation software locally and create whatever you want if you're skilled enough. The tech is already there for low-medium fidelity media, and we're right around the corner from any person with a decent graphics card being able to generate high fidelity media.
Reagalan@reddit
That isn't going to deter anyone. Deterrence effect is a function of likelihood of getting caught. Not of potential consequences.
dezastrologu@reddit
no, you can’t
Dracogame@reddit
I'd rather keep internet free, I won't trade so much freedom and privacy for so little security. It's a human body, get over it.
SarcasmGPT@reddit
You are so pro this kind of behaviour aren't you?
You've just said well it can't be stopped, and now you realise it can you're like ah but freedom. You'll come up with anything to justify it so there's not much point in further discussion.
R3Dpenguin@reddit
Not, it can't. They've been trying since this whole thing got started and never succeeded. You know why? Because it's impossible. It's a waste of time and resources, and a distraction for doing something else that might at least have a chance to be effective.
Dracogame@reddit
This is just a ludicrous assumption, it would be the equivalent of calling pedophile anyone opposing eu chat control.
BambooSound@reddit
Why only suggestive?
JohnAtticus@reddit
^^^^
Jacks it to pics of his friend's wives.
Opening-Cheetah467@reddit
Well this is weird to say, r u saying we should not take strong actions to try to prevent such things (cresting porn content out of normal decent photos of people) because we can’t prevent it anyway?
Why imposing strong punishment for felonies if we can’t prevent it anyway.
What i want to say is that, this is bad excuse and harsh punishment should be applied to -at least- force people to think twice before doing it
Dracogame@reddit
You can have harsh punishment written on a piece of paper, but it's hard to enforce without mass survailance.
Wedoitforthenut@reddit
Exactly. I feel like so many people are in a hurry to "protect" themselves they are willing to give up all their freedoms to do it. We routinely criticize the current authoritarian administration in the US for doing exactly the same thing. Everyone wants their own personal brand of fascism rather than accepting the world is a vast and diverse place, and sometimes it not pretty or amusing.
DrShocker@reddit
What? I also can't stop people from stripping naked when I walk into a room, but it sure as hell would make me uncomfortable in most rooms.
Maybe in a utopia nudity wouldn't be an issue, but it seems ridiculous to tell people they need to be comfortable with others making nude depictions of them.
Dracogame@reddit
Someone getting naked in a room with you is different than a picture being produced that have you seemengly naked.
Not saying we shouldn't study a way to disincentivize this, but beside being disgusted, there's not much to do if you want to keep in check mass survailance.
DrShocker@reddit
sure, I agree that regulating it in a non draconian way might be a challenge, but that's a far cry from needing to get over feeling uncomfortable.
BambooSound@reddit
Why only suggestive?
Unlucky-Scallion1289@reddit
Yeah stupid criminals, just don’t do crime. Dumbasses.
PierreFeuilleSage@reddit
How though? You can fine and punish but they'll still be made.
Wedoitforthenut@reddit
You very much implied that the police state should be prosecuting fake nude images as a means of prevention, when prevention isn't a reality and all you're really asking for is more authoritarianism. Its not that complicated. I'm sorry you're struggling to understand basic logic.
MichelangeBro@reddit
"You can't stop people from killing so we shouldn't make murder a crime"
ParagonRenegade@reddit
Harsh punishments don’t dissuade crime and never have
N_T_F_D@reddit
Don't move the goalposts, you're arguing for no punishment
So tell us, if murder was not penalized, it would go down?
ParagonRenegade@reddit
This is a victimless crime, unlike murder, so I reject the comparison
yourstruly912@reddit
This is absolutely not victimless lmao
ParagonRenegade@reddit
It absolutely is, there’s no violence and no reputational harm unless proven, which makes it not a crime by the standards of libel or slander.
MichelangeBro@reddit
Who is making any point about harsher punishments?
SurturOfMuspelheim@reddit
You having the government use power to make sure these things are allowed is just as authoritarian as the government making them illegal.
Authoritarian is simply one beings will being imposed on another.
And also voting is not 'fighting'
CakeTester@reddit
Nah, OP was saying that there is no way of stopping it. Which there isn't. So the only thing you can really do about it is to not take personal damage when/if it happens.
Yes, if you're in a position of power, track them down and sue them right the fuck out of their basement. There needs to be consequences. But you're not going to be able to stop it...even if you tackle every AI on the globe, there's still photoshop.
It is going to happen, so you have to adjust your head so that it doesn't mess you up.
Neat_Tangelo5339@reddit
There is also no real way to stop murder completely
should I also not let that upset me c
CakeTester@reddit
You have to see it as it is. It's not right, or civilised, or just. It just is, and you're not going to stop it. If you're a lawmaker, you might be able to put some resistance in there.
So yes, it is like murder, in that it's going to happen anyway and the causes are so random you can't possibly stop it.
JohnAtticus@reddit
The vast majority of people are murdered by someone they know or because they are involved in the illegal drug trade.
Most murders aren't random.
CakeTester@reddit
Oh come on. "Illegal drug trade".
JohnAtticus@reddit
To repeat my main point and expand on it...
Most murders aren't random: Most perps aren't Anton Chigurh, killing random people off of a coin flip.
There are actually things we can do as a society to lower the number of murders.
That's my main point.
But I digresss...
You want to change the subject argue semantics?
Okay.
Explain your issue with the phrase.
CakeTester@reddit
To answer you after it's all died down a bit...you're equating AI porno deep fakes with both murder and the drug trade. Not even AI, really, as photoshop face swaps have been a thing all this century.
Yes, if you're on the pointy end, it could be traumatic (I'm an old fat bloke with an adequate penis, so I'm having to try for empathy here...if it happened to me, the trauma would be elsewhere and I'd want copies of the best photos). Still doesn't compare to murder or the effects of the drug trade.
oversoul00@reddit
Doesn't a lot of that hinge on people believing these things happened and are real?
SNL can make a skit about anybody doing anything because everyone knows it's fake.
If these were pencil drawings I don't think that would be illegal either.
A newspaper can't print anything they want because there is a reasonable expectation that people will believe it.
I don't think people really believe the Italian PM was doing porn.
ModerNew@reddit
There's a distinct difference.
Both require inflammatory material to be spread not just created.
lestofante@reddit
Same for that porn, no? There is literally a website serving them, if would have stay on the creator PC, none would have complained.
ModerNew@reddit
But the previous commenter was talking about prevention not penalizing.
lestofante@reddit
I think we are all still talking about blocking, blocking the share/publication of such content.
Maybe you thing about blocking the creation?
Lorgin@reddit
A happy middle ground is no distributing. The technology will exist to make nudes of everyone. There will be plenty of legitimate uses for this tech, but I don't think anyone should have AI nudes of them spread around. So just ban distributing fake nudes. Sure, individuals will have a fake picture, or video, of your likeness... But no one can talk about it without legal repercussions.
Eexoduis@reddit
Their username is “we do it for the nut”, what else were you expecting
Neat_Tangelo5339@reddit
I came back here to find out that my ice cold take started a flame war
after years on being on Reddit i’ve learned that is common but somehow im still dissapointed
FuckboyMessiah@reddit
The comparison dictates fake nudes are fine as long as they're labeled as satire.
redpandaeater@reddit
If you're a public figure that's already pretty much true at least in the US. American libel law for instance protects me from defamation lawsuits of foreign courts that don't have an equivalent to our freedom of speech.
MrCharmingTaintman@reddit
What do you suggest should be done to prevent it?
SupportDangerous8207@reddit
At least now if your nudes get leaked you can claim its ai
ToranjaNuclear@reddit
I thought this comment was weird af but then I remembered which sub I'm in
Complex-Foundation98@reddit
You might not be able to fully stop it, but that does not mean you cannot do anything. South Korea made deepfakes a crime with mandatory prison. That won’t stop people from doing it but the punishment might be harsh enough to make people think twice. At least it signals that the government does not consider it a minor victimless offense.
Of course when you are a public figure (celebrities, politicians etc) you won’t be able to prevent some random person in another country from using the services in yet another country to create and distribute deepfakes. But when some jilted would be suitor decides take revenge by embarrassing and defaming the woman he was after, there’s a chance that if he’s caught he won’t get off with a slap on the wrist.
Wedoitforthenut@reddit
Revenge porn is already illegal. And already doesn't work to prevent revenge porn.
cayneloop@reddit
what the fuck kind of attitude is this?
ok? crime law doesn't work to prevent crimes because crimes still happen?
fuck it, make every crime legal then because unfortunately they still happen
Wedoitforthenut@reddit
I don't think you understand. Its not like physical theft, or physical assault, or harassment; its globally accessible, easy to produce, easy to distribute, and easy to cover your tracks. Making it illegal will not stop it from happening, but it will give the government the authority to spy on citizens online which is exactly what they want. I get that you want something to be done about it, but how can you achieve the outcome you desire? Honestly, some battles are not worth fighting because there is no way to win.
cayneloop@reddit
they already do that tho??
the same way fucking CP is punishable, are you gonna make the same arguments for that?
Wedoitforthenut@reddit
I'm going to make the same argument for generated media regardless of the age/sex/gender of the persons depicted.
cayneloop@reddit
well jesus fucking christ...thank you for confirming you think CP should be legalized, i guess.
Julleispoese@reddit
You’d never apply this logic to a crime you consider to be serious.
Complex-Foundation98@reddit
It does not stop it, but if you do get caught you can be punished. And the point is that deepfakes are usually not considered at the same level of revenge porn in most places, if anything it's probably treated like defamation or not at all.
If we simply say "oh well, what can you do..." we are tacitly accepting it as normal just because it's easy to produce.
cloud_t@reddit
I agree with this, with the caveat that women should attempt to pursue legally those who are responsible for using their image like this. Because one's reputation and good name is not fair use, and the act of using it without consent for nefarious purposes deserves penalty.
yourstruly912@reddit
Some strategic exemplary punishments and we can keep down their prevalece. They're already doing it in Korea iirc
ScientificSkepticism@reddit
There's something very wrong about saying that women have to get comfortable seeing themselves in porn.
That seems... not okay.
Sutar_Mekeg@reddit
Naw, how about we punish the people posting such things instead?
B0r3dGamer@reddit
You know she's a fascist right? Her party is the modern version of Mussolini's PNF.
dryuhyr@reddit
But by this logic, we should stop helping poor people, because there will always be a separation of classes. The best thing for poor people to do is to accept their lot in life.
In reality, these things are always on a spectrum. We don’t need to exterminate every single deepfake software out there. We just need to make it inconvenient enough that most people won’t take the time to use them. There will always be some nonconsentual content online, but depending on how we handle it, we can keep it to a minimum, and keep most women’s bodies private.
Blarg_III@reddit
We've spent decades, billions of dollars and enormous amounts of time and legislative effort trying to eliminate digital piracy to the ultimate effect that it's never been easier to do than it is today.
Making deepfake software inconvenient to use is not an achievable goal.
dryuhyr@reddit
Yes, many people pirate content online. And what is the ultimate result of that? Media companies are still making more than they ever have. Netflix, Hulu, Disney +, a hundred other thriving digital companies that are pulling in billions because it is slightly more convenient for people to pay $20 per month than to have to log onto fmovies.
qjxj@reddit
This is effectively what ends up happening.
At least, helping the has a more valid motive to it that diverting resources to protect self-serving politicians.
false_god@reddit
This is demobilizing rhetoric. This is the same as thoughts and prayers. This is why we need regulations.
zuneza@reddit
ID laws cause so many other horrifying things to happen to society. Do you have a different regulation in mind?
false_god@reddit
I’m not talking about ID laws but about regulating AI
dakkaffex@reddit
Fake nudes have existed since before AI usage was widespread.
Blarg_III@reddit
Can't put the genie back in the bottle, the programs people use to make these deepfakes are free, relatively small and can run on a home computer. It's the same as trying to "regulate" encryption or torrenting.
false_god@reddit
Having an algorithm out is different than a bunch of companies profiting off of making fake porn about real people.
qjxj@reddit
Who would have thought being a public figure would lead to public exposure.
Such_Grapefruit_5772@reddit
You materially can’t make people not kill others so what? Strike those laws from the books too? L take
MoschopsAdmirer@reddit
Punishing defamation does not make a country a "nanny state."
Would you feel comfortable if realistic images or drawings of your loved ones in false sexual situations were made public?
In most nations, this has always been illegal, and I don’t see that changing with the rise of AI.
There’s a big difference between prior censorship (which is not desirable) and permissiveness toward illegal conduct that has already been committed. Technically, it’s possible to identify the perpetrators—if it’s illegal, it should be punished.
charging_chinchilla@reddit
Yep, can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. We've hit the point that anyone can create a deepfake on their computer with a single picture of someone, so there really isn't any reasonable way to prevent this from happening.
Scuffy97_@reddit
It should be treated like distributing porn of people without consent. We can't punsh people for wrongthink, and there is no way we can stop people from making this stuff, but we can punish distribution.
Adidax@reddit
The worst part of this whole story is that this site has been active for years and there have been several complaints from ordinary people that have led to nothing. Now, however, that politicians are involved, it has become a national case.
SleepyTonia@reddit
Yeah, it always was possible to just... cut someone's face out of a picture and stick it on a magazine or something along those lines. It's a damn movie trope. But now you just need one picture of someone's face to generate images or videos of them doing almost anything. The tools are out there, open-source and free. There's no "making it impossible".
I'll take what I can get in the current political climate and say I'm glad she speaks of privacy and data protection… I can only imagine they'll ultimately use this to push for the same surveillance laws that have been spreading around, but yeah. Uploading (And sharing) this kind of generated or doctored image of someone can have far worse repercussions than mere defamation and the legal consequences need to be heavy.
…Regardless of the victim's fame.
divDevGuy@reddit
The Phoenix Institute of Contemporary Art (phICA.org) had got to be super excited about the sudden surge of traffic, but a little concerned and confused about some of their Contact Us submissions.
IlliterateSnob@reddit
Yoo she baddie though... Sauce?
Also if they clearly label them as fake, is it that bad? Best time to be serious and think about politics is directly after nutting lol
Maybe_this_time_fr@reddit
Down horrendous
IlliterateSnob@reddit
I just.... learned about her politics and I changed my mind I don't like her any more
cyberadmin1@reddit
Lmao. It just shriveled up
IlliterateSnob@reddit
Hahaha well I learned about her politics after shriveling up
PierreFeuilleSage@reddit
I'm on the opposite side of her politics but... hatefucks feel good sometimes
auyemra@reddit
super horrible, better show me the way so I can avoid it
Chewbacca_The_Wookie@reddit
Holy shit that is the dumbest thing I've ever heard but now I'd love to see a politician start capitalizing on their fake nudes with a little campaign speech before the video.
SloaneWolfe@reddit
Kat in Illinois hasn't shied away from the attacks on her bartending pics. Let the weirdos be thirsty.
IlliterateSnob@reddit
Show me
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
[removed]
AutoModerator@reddit
The comment you submitted includes a link to a social media platform run by fascist/authoritarian oligarchs and has been removed. Consider re-commenting with a link using alternative privacy-friendly frontends: https://hackmd.io/MCpUlTbLThyF6cw_fywT_g?view
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
F-Lambda@reddit
dumbass bot
IlliterateSnob@reddit
Goes by Kat Abu, she's hot asf and also palestinian I love her
VijoPlays@reddit
I've jacked off to weirder starts to porn
Wedoitforthenut@reddit
Pretty sure there are some European politicians that are ex porn stars.
alematt@reddit
This is a joke right? You can't possibly be this shitty
IlliterateSnob@reddit
Depends how long it's been since I've pooped
bryan112@reddit
username checks out
chrontab@reddit
Oh, my God, that's disgusting! Naked pics online? Where? Where did he post those?