Aliyev orders Azerbaijan to ‘prepare for war’, accuses Russia of being ‘genetic occupier’ that ‘stole’ Western Zangezur from Baku
Posted by 1DarkStarryNight@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 113 comments
Kiboune@reddit
Occupier? Aliev, how about giving back land you annexed from Armenia a few years ago, after you found out what Europe will cooperate with you and you can get away with whatever you want? But I guess people will forget everything he did and said about Armenians, now what he's opposing Russia
lestofante@reddit
you mean the one in 2023 that happen while Russia had troops there that were supposed to not make that happen?
US had to intervene to strike a pace deal, and Armenia has officially renounced to those lands.
expect EU strongly supported Armenia, and they played a strong role in the peace that was signed early this year, they even sent civilian on the ground to check that nothing "funny" happen, like a genocide
None of this would have happen if Russia kept his promise to defend Armenia.
It didnt.
electronigrape@reddit
None of this would have happened either if after Russia left Russia's orbit for the West (which caused Russia to retaliate by cooperating with Azerbaijan and abandoning Amrenia), the West hadn't completely ignored it (other than France giving some token diplomatic support).
lestofante@reddit
When this happen Armenia was part of the defensive alliance with Russia (CSTO) and there where Russian troop in critical areas in Armenia.
Like it or not, there was nothing that anyone else in such prime position to avoid the attack.
They didnt.
That is the big issue.
And Armenia is quitting CSTO as result one more step toward EU.
All because Russia failed to keep up their part of the bargain.
electronigrape@reddit
Armenia couldn't just suddenly become hostile to Russia, fearing that it would do what it ended up doing. It just removed Russian domination of its politics and tried to go to the West. What is the point of exiting the CSTO, a defensive alliance, when they had no guarantees from any other block. And it's not like any Western country told it to leave the CSTO and that it would help it then. Armenia was just ignored.
Pelosi just visited once and it delayed an entire invasion. The West needed to simply do the bare minimum to stop ethnic cleansing and take an entire region off of Russia's orbit. But it didn't, and Russia kept it for half a decade more until they lost it on their own.
lestofante@reddit
What is the point of stating in a defensive alliance that failed to protect you?
Also they suspended the deal for now, while exit paper are being prepared, so Russia could do some virtue signalling to convince them back.
And that despite NOT being part of an alliance, and Armenia still strongly aligned with Russia?
See? That is proper signal virtue.
electronigrape@reddit
How do you know that it will fail to protect you before the war? Armenia tried to pivot to the West in 2018.
What are you talking about? Armenia had an hostile relations with Russia for years at that point, and was punished by it with ethnic cleansing. The USA barely responded to Armenia's call for an alliance years later with just a visit, and nothing else after that. Showing how easy it was for the USA to control the situation, but it just didn't care.
lestofante@reddit
Who will fa il to protect who?
If you mean EU, MAYBE. But maybe is better than Russia "already didnt".
Armenia, just like Russia or Belarus, have been expanding their trade and relationship with " the west".
So what?
Then why they stay in the same defensive pact?
Why Russia kept troop in Armenia's hottest region?
Please answer those two simple reason.
electronigrape@reddit
I mean Russia. Reread the comments.
Armenia explicitly had a revolution, ousted the pro-Russian government and tried to reach out to the West, only for it to be ignored and consequently punished by Russia with ethnic cleansing while the West didn't even intervene diplomatically.
Because it was the only member of the Minsk group that agreed to have troops. Armenia petitioned the West many times, and the USA and France were explicitly in the group, but they didn't intervene.
lestofante@reddit
In what part they got ignored?
The EU has specific program for armenia, and invested billion of euro as help to economy and stimulus.
I am not aware of a genocide after the 2018 armenia revolution.
Also as Armenia was (and technically still is) is defensive alliance with Russia, if they want help they should drop that?
Where? Can you please send me a link?
West send civilian observatory and that alone was enough to cause a political mess.
Mink group didbevwr achieve anything? I though was a flop
electronigrape@reddit
When they made no progress in any form of relationships, military or political, and when they just ignored a whole invasion next to them. And not just any invasion, an invasion two countries, the USA and France, had a legal obligation to prevent, through treaties they had signed in the 1990's.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Armenian_Revolution
Armenia petitioned everyone for protection, and explicitly reoriented its foreign policy towards the West, causing Russia to punish it through this:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Nagorno-Karabakh_War
It was a continuous effort, and it's very recognised, you will see many articles talking about it. I don't know what you want do you want proof of Pashinyan talking to them?
www.primeminister.am/en/press-release/item/2018/07/12/Nikol-Pashinyan-meetings/?utm_source=chatgpt.com
https://old.evnreport.com/magazine-issues/the-nikol-pashinyan-administration-2018-present?utm_source=chatgpt.com (Munich security conference, headed by the USA, Armenia moving the issue to Western fora)
By coordinating with Azerbaijan and having its troops in the region do nothing. The other signatories of the truce, which Armenia wanted to approach after distancing itself from Russia, did nothing.
And it helped immensely, but it was way to late, and also ended way to early. It was incredibly easy to do, they didn't need to send weapons or soldiers, just move a few civilians over, and just that prevented an invasion of Armenia proper.
The Minsk group stopped the war in the 1990's and was the international organisation guaranteeing the peace between Armenia and Azerbaijan.
lestofante@reddit
They became EU candidate, that alone took years of work.
That is huge.
Yeah, did not get involved militarily.. Maybe because they didn't want to make progress they knew they could not maintain?
This ia 2018 when Armenia started to be more and more aligned to the west, yes, but what do you expect, that as soon as someone say "I'm pro west now" everyone will run in its defense?
There where treaty and political push in many directions.
Russia took over the responsibility and did not kept its promises, simple and clear.
You can't make it a fault of the west.
They did what was reasonable, while Armenia was growing, simply was not strong enough.
At the same time Russia has been the guarantee in the region
What? Azerbajan attacked that the EUMA mission was going on, and it got extended as a result.
If you need to ask chatgpt, remember to double check.
_Kiith_Naabal_@reddit
Comments like yours show how lunatic, misguided and how much of the EU is blind about Azerbaijan. First, the EU never backed Armenia,politically or militarily. Armenia isnt even an EU or NATO ally, and the Turkey-Azerbaijan axis makes that impossible in practice. Instead, the EU gives Azerbaijan political and economic cover, much like it does with Israel, out of pure pragmatism. If you are from the EU, own it: you are enabling atrocities. Gaza isnt some shocking exception; it echoes the same pattern you followed when you looked away from Azerbaijan expulsion of Armenians years ago, something many in Europe don’t even seem to know happened.
Secondly, Russia didn't "betrayed" Armenia. Armenia voted for a guy who pledged alliance and proximity to Turkey, and by extension, EU. What they got instead? An invasion backed by Turkey. You know why he wasn't outsated in the protests after the war? Partly because EU polically covered Pahsynian
lestofante@reddit
Armenia is literally a EU candidate since 2025.
EU invested billions, there is even a special project dedicated to Armenia since 2017.
Yes, EU never put military.
That was supposed to be Russian's job.
Absolutely agree and we protest about it. Is not much, but already some country are starting to move and recognize Palestine, stop sending weapons to Israel.. Is not much, but is more we achieved in the last 20-30 years.
And we have a guy that pledge alliance to Putin.
Does this mean we kick them out of EU? Strip them right away of voting and veto power?
No, we try to work with it, around it, try to see what is the difference and viewpoint.
You see, the right way is not always the easy or nice way.
If Russia shown its support in this moment, that how you win election for your guys.
_Kiith_Naabal_@reddit
Ah, so you admit foreigner interference in Armenia in 2017 but at the same time says Russia betrayed Armenia when they got invaded.
Armenia indeed got betrayed: by you.
lestofante@reddit
It is all at the open sun.
EU also helped Russia with different project, like the pipeline and stuff.
Is that foreign intelligence too? If you a friend of Russia or USA you are not allow to talk to others?
The Russia support was tied to a defensive alliance and Armenia was never cut out or alerted that that was jot worth anymore the paper it was written on..
Making you friend is jot a betray.
Breaking promises is, even if you do because jealous of feel replaced.
Lol yeah cope.
Russia could prove it all false by simply doing what they promise to do.
They didnt.
EU made little promises, but kept them.
Guess what kind of friend I would prefer in real life.
_Kiith_Naabal_@reddit
Armenia is a democratic country. They made their bed. They choose to approach EU and what they got? A chunk of their land taken by their neighbour. And what EU did? Is buying oil and gas from that same neighbour while Kajas says to the wind how Azerbaijan is important to Europe.
You and EU are a joke. One that I laugh every day
lestofante@reddit
This is not how it work. Even Russia had treaty and relationship with EU before the invasion.
It is normal, and if Russia felt Armenia went too far, they should have said so instead of silently drop help when Armenia needed it.
That is cowardice and how you loose all the other allyes, that are gonna wonder if you gonna drop them or not.
On the other hand EU shown how is done with orban, they punish when there are new funds runs and such, but old promises are kept
_Kiith_Naabal_@reddit
Yep, they fell for it. And what did they got? Oh yeah, a chunk of their territory taken by their neighbour. And what did EU do? Is now buying gas from Azerbaijan
Vassago81@reddit
They should start sending them billions in weapon if they really want to help prevent an actual genocide.
1DarkStarryNight@reddit (OP)
LMAO.
this is insane Western propaganda, lol, the likes of which not even the main ARM sub spouts (the the usual narrative there is, no one supported us at all, ignoring the Russian help, ofc).
this is hilarious.
btw,
the EU monitoring mission posted a tweet on the anniversary of the genocide, deleted it, and posted a new one without the word ‘genocide’ in it. lol. meanwhile Russia in its statement called it ‘the greatest tragedy of the 20th century’.
westerners need to fuck off & stop getting involved, except Greeks (for obvious reasons) & maybe French due to strong historical support.
lestofante@reddit
Once again, this would have not happen if Russia would have protected Armenia like they promise.
"Stupid" western have to go and clean up after Russia.
This is kinda normal, I dont think ALL member state recognise it.
There was a big official recognition round in 2014-15 but I think some EU country still didn't.
So you are saying Russia did not abandon Armenia as punishment to get too close to the west?
What to do you think of Armenia becoming EU candidate early this year?
What do you think if CEPA?
What you think of EU investing something like 6bln in Armenia?
I dont know, it seems to me EU is investing a LOT in Armenia, so I would really love for you to explain where is this "insane western propaganda"
BurstYourBubbles@reddit
Annexation? Are you talking about Nagorno-Karabakh? Wasn't internationally recognised as Azeribaijani territory?
electronigrape@reddit
It's a bit long to explain but legally the land was officially recognised as Armenian-controlled, and Azerbaijan wasn't allowed to invade. It was only considered as a de jure part of Azerbaijan through different treaties, but when it came to actual control it was pretty firmly on Armenia, it essentially had a legal right to semi-permanent occupation until the conflict was peacefully solved (which it wasn't, Azerbaijan just invaded and ethnically cleansed the area).
the_lonely_creeper@reddit
Yes, but the region has historically been Armenian majority, declared independence in the 1989's alongside the Soviet Republics, after trying to become a part of Armenia for centuries, and saw the Azeri poppulation fleeing in the 90's, and the status quo had de-facto been recognised in 2020, under a Russian guarantee.
The only thing the 2024 war and the earlier blockade and siege did was ethnically cleanse the region.
It'd be like if Ukraine reclaimed Crimea by starting a war and in the process every single resident of Crimea fled in very real fear for their lives.
BurstYourBubbles@reddit
Ehhh, I can see your argument but I find the territorial claims based on ethnicity to be spurious. Explusions are clearly wrong but I don't think it's ethnic makeup creates any sort of legal right.
the_lonely_creeper@reddit
Fair enough. Let's ignore those implications for a moment.
Does the reality of Azerbaijan genociding its ethnic Armenian minority in the rest of the country do so in your view? The will of the locals? The lack of democracy in Azerbaijan? Azerbaijan's demands on Armenian territory?
Quite frankly, the fate of Armenians in Nagorno Karabach in Azerbaijan has been worse than almost any colony. Hell, the end result has been a more total exile than that of the Palestinians (which at least get their Bantustans).
Yet because of vague notions of international law (which everyone constantly disregards anyways), the rights of the people of the region were denied, and their exile and the destruction of their history is somehow seen as the more "acceptable" outcome.
LevDavidovicLandau@reddit
They committed ethnic cleansing, not genocide. Very important difference between the two.
the_lonely_creeper@reddit
Yes, the Armenians fled before the Azeris killed them. Very different, clearly.
LevDavidovicLandau@reddit
There is a clear difference in international law. I don’t make the rules here mate.
the_lonely_creeper@reddit
Sure, both are to be prevented however, and are crimes against humanity
LevDavidovicLandau@reddit
Yes you’ll brook absolutely no argument from me there. It’s important to use the right language when talking about the kinds of crimes that send people to the Hague, though. That was my only point.
zanotam@reddit
Ethnic makeup is the only internationally recognized right to independence holy shit dude.
haggerton@reddit
Hence Taiwan has no right to independence.
zanotam@reddit
Uh, what? Han Chinese is not a real ethnicity. And Taiwan is already independent and nobody needs a right to stay independent. Fuck, any current country should only ever be allowed to breakup into ever smaller groups.
LevDavidovicLandau@reddit
Buddy, some folks in your country tried to do that in 1861 and, uh, they weren’t allowed to do so.
haggerton@reddit
Han Chinese not "purebred" enough for you to count as an ethnicity? What?
Oh wait. Let me guess. Alabama?
It's not international recognized^tm as a separate country from China. The only debate is whether PRC is the legitimate government of all China (including Taiwan), or RoC. Only a handful of countries recognize RoC, not including yours.
This is some basic amount of fact you should know if you want to open your mouth about Taiwan.
Please, after you. Let's start with the US, the most rabid warmonger in modern times. Everyone will be better off.
TheDBryBear@reddit
The history is it was ethnically armenian for thousands of years but given to azerbaijan by the british after ww1, and the soviets kept it that way when they conquered the caucasus. Even before the fall they declared independence, and after the fall armenia invaded and enforced that independence.
The self determination of people supersedes the rights of governments who rule them, at least morally. Practically its ultraproblematic to consistently enforce without stepping on anyones toes.
LevDavidovicLandau@reddit
Hmm, interesting. Somehow this is rarely mentioned when we (btw, I have absolutely no dog in this fight besides a general dislike of both Christianity and Islam, though with a stronger dislike of the former) in the West hear about the Nagorno-Karabakh issue.
DetailFit5019@reddit
Ironically enough, many Armenians would accuse your country of complicity in Azerbaijan's annexation of Nagorno-Karabakh.
DrTheol_Blumentopf@reddit
*Artsakh
DetailFit5019@reddit
You're right. I've edited my original comment to reflect this.
vicky_vaughn@reddit
Armenia gave up Karanakh without a fight. There's "aiding your ally" and then there's "fighting their wars for them".
da0217@reddit
Like others have mentioned, Armenia fought a full blown war, losing thousands of soldiers.
Please point to the “aid” Russia provided as an ally.
1DarkStarryNight@reddit (OP)
Russia:
• intervened twice — first offering a formal ceasefire in October, which P*shinyan rejected, and then outright ‘forcing’ a ceasefire to prevent a total Azeri victory
• rushed through military aid despite having no direct border, and Georgia refusing to co-operate
• directly bombed the Turk-installed jihadist camps (Syrian mercenaries).
could RU have done more? maybe, mostly cause it was in their interest (in hindsight), but,even back then, there were a strong suspicion, that P*shinyan is a Western puppet.
what did your country do?
most of these casualties could have been avoided if P*shinyan had agreed to RU October ceasefire proposal. He has ADMITTED as much, himself.
people refer to 2023,when talking about P*shinyan being unwilling to fight. that's a fact.
da0217@reddit
Offering a cease fire is an act of a neutral party, not an ally. That is an exceedingly low bar.
“Most of the casualties could have been prevented” has nothing to do with people saying Armenia didn’t fight and gave up Kharabagh.
Of course Pashinyan was unwilling to fight. How could he choose to fight against a formidable foe with actual support from actual powerful allies like Turkey when all his ally can muster is “offers of cease fires.”
da0217@reddit
Please point to what Russia did “to aid their ally.”
DetailFit5019@reddit
thousands of Armenian soldiers were killed in this 'not war' of yours
iMossa@reddit
Maybe it was a special operation? /s
CptHrki@reddit
Lol how about CSTO actuslly does something about it, oh wait
apophis-pegasus@reddit
If this is Nagorno-Karabakh, its internationally considered Azeri territory isnt it?
Patchy9781@reddit
Glass houses
1DarkStarryNight@reddit (OP)
Hereditary dictator Aliyev accused Russia of worsening bilateral relations, and went on to portray it as a historical and modern ‘aggressor’.
In an interview, Aliyev described Russia as a ‘genetic occupier’ not only in Ukraine but also Azerbaijan.
Aliyev claimed that, in 1920, the Russian army ‘invaded and occupied’ the country. He accused the Soviets of deceiving the people and seizing the state, and later claimed that Soviet authorities ‘stole’ the Zangezur (Syunik) region from Azerbaijan and gifted it to Armenia, splitting the country in two.
Aliyev also accused Russia of ‘deliberately targeting’ the Azeri plane that crashed, and described the crackdown on Azeri mafia within Russia as ‘an unprecedented act against our people’.
1DarkStarryNight@reddit (OP)
my input — since Western puppet P*shinyan is currently too busy sucking EU dick, and doesn't give a toss about his country, Aliyev decided to pivot to Russia as Azerbaijan current ‘main threat’. his authority & absolute rule, unchecked & complete, depends on having an external enemy to point to, & there’s no better option than Russia.
you get all the Western benefits of standing up to Russia, including EU ignoring the crimes the authoritarian regime, only rivalled by maybe Iran in the region, is carrying out against its people.
Russia is busy to react meaningfully, at least in terms of posing a direct military threat.
of course, he will have to change course eventually, cos this comes across as a Ukraine speed-run, and if he does not, Russia will undoubtedly react — it has already started targeting Azeri assets in Ukraine, finally cracking down on Azeri mafia, and getting rid of Azeri lobbyists within government positions (one of them was recently labeled a ‘foreign asset’). if he keeps ‘poking the bear’, perhaps there will be another ‘occupation’ for Aliyev to add to his list.
Beat_Saber_Music@reddit
The Russians didn't help Armenia against Azerbaijan really (I will not get dragged down into a pointless debate around Nagorno Karabakh), Turkey is aligned with Azerbaijan, and Iran is mimitary sise a bit of a joke, so Armenia has no otheir choice really expect the EU for a partnership. There's little alternative really
moonorplanet@reddit
Armenia has nothing to offer the EU while Azerbaijan does. The EU will gladly let Azerbaijan split Armenia into two for a pipeline can be laid. Russia also tried to get Armenia to increase ties with India but Pashiyan only wants the west.
BendicantMias@reddit
The EU has done nothing for Armenia, and is itself courting Azerbaijan. Russia made its point - turn away from us and you have no one. It's Armenia that has little alternative. Pashinyan tried to pretend he did, and wound up with egg on his face. He's now one of the most unpopular leaders in the world.
Beat_Saber_Music@reddit
France for example has supplied weapo s to Armenia, and there have been some diplomatic discussions between EU and Armenia
BendicantMias@reddit
So? Russia has actually stationed troops in Armenia, so few weapons sales mean little cos Russia has still done more. No one in the west lifted a finger to save Armenia, and then blame Russia for not saving land it wasn't obligated to save anyway. You can claim that makes Russia a poor ally, but it makes you an even poorer ally then. So they've still got no one but Russia (and Iran). And after Pashinyan and his antics are gone, hopefully they'll realize that.
Beat_Saber_Music@reddit
Russian peacekeepers basically did nothing during the whole Nagorno Karabakh debacle
BendicantMias@reddit
You can crow that all you want, but in that case you've done less than nothing. Cos however you want to describe what they've done, you've done LESS. You want the lazy way of winning Armenia over - just keep trash talking Russia while doing nothing yourselves. No, you don't get the lazy option. You want to win over Armenia? Send your men in and have them bleed fighting Azerbaijan. Ditto for Ukraine. Ditto for any other country on the face of this planet - you aren't their friends until you've shown you're willing to actually take hits for them. So far the only country you've done that for ... is the US.
Your lord and master.
1DarkStarryNight@reddit (OP)
lol.
you do not know what you are talking about my dear Westoid. you have fallen for the mainstream Western narrative pushed by propagandists.
in reality, Russia is the only! country that helped militarily during the 2020 war. EU didn't do SHIT.
then, after 2022, Iran is the only country that prevented an Azeri invasion.
the rest is made-up bs.
Beat_Saber_Music@reddit
You live in Scotland
1DarkStarryNight@reddit (OP)
no, I love in the US. born & grew up in Scotland.
but, unlike you, ethnicity-wise, i am connected to both RU & ARM, w/ present ties in the former.
and I can read and understand Russian, which lets me look beyond the Western narrative pushed by shills across English-language media.
Beat_Saber_Music@reddit
I am quite aware of Russian language stuff, in part due to living in a country neighboring Russia and with my country's experience with Russia being pretty clear attempt to wipe out our language as well as an unprovoked invasion in the midst of WW2. The Russian world view is driven by an ideology of greater Russia, where Russia is always the victim, where glorious Russian hegemony under the USSR was brought down by the Baltic traitors whom Russian nationalists just vehemently hate with a passion for the fact they refused to be subjected to Russification. They call the Baltic people all kinds of names, such as refering to them as Baltic bastards. I am decently acquainted with a Latvian whose full day job is essentially learning about Russia's viewpoint in the Ukrainian war, and people like Igor Girkhin, Maxim Kalashnikov or Alexander Duhin live in a wholly different world from our own.
The west by no means is perfect, but I don't want to be forced to learn another language, I don't want my country to be invaded by soldiers who don't have toilets or washing machiens back home and want to bring those back home as trophies.
Russia is an abusive father who blames his kids for wanting to get away from him
1DarkStarryNight@reddit (OP)
so you're saying Russia acted the way all big powers did/do. riveting stuff.
dude what lol. I can name like a dozen countries that Russians ‘hate’ more than the Baltics. the hate is one-sided, Baltics are some of (if not the most) Russophobic countries on Earth. Russians just view them as chihuahuas barking.
there can be no doubt that Ukrainian & Russians are one people. the Ukraine crisis is practically a civil war fueled by the West.
Beat_Saber_Music@reddit
First off, who invaded another country on February 24th 2022? Whose soldiers crossed an internationally recognized border? Who fired missiles on cities in Europe. What country invaded another country on that specific day?
If you mention the baltics to tankies, they're going to demonize the Baltics for causing the fall of their glorious Communist USSR.
Lavrov claims these "chihauas" are bullies Medvedev talks about using military force against Poland and the Baltics because they dare build up their military
Russian TV associated with the government talks about invading the Baltics
Several examples of Russian media personalities talking about attacking European countries
Russia or it's puppet belarus has literally flown African and Middle Eastern migrants to the Polish and Lithuanian borders and forced them to go to the border while not allowing them to return.
What would these countries that the Russians hate more be? Poland whose existence has historically been an affront to Russia because it was a rival center of power in Eastern Europe? Turkey which Russia has sought to defeat too many times to count over the Bosphorus Straits?
Also I just realized arguing with you is pointless, because apparently you think I should be Russian because my country used to be part of Russia historically, becuase you think Scots have no history of their own and are just part of England, because apparently you probably think Canada should be part of the US in spite of the notably different culture and history of the two countries because US is the stronger power. Your post and comment history isn't even public, so that's furhter reason not to continue this pointless discussion, because seems you can't even leave your comment history public.
As much as it is pointless, here's two videos explaining how the whole Ukrainian war was started by a culture over language in Ukraine and political crisis in Kyiv over the president betraying an election promise being escalated into rebellion in the Donbass because Russian political entrepaneurs decided to take over several cities to gain favor from Putin only for Putin to send troops to bail out his cronies because they were getting their asses handed to them by Ukrainian military that was in disarray still. That and how Russia illegally annexed by military force Crimea because Ukraine was in crisis, after Russia had tried and failed to take over Crimea in 1994:
https://youtu.be/exJ024Zdzdk?si=XjtB829gyjpvRCXF
https://youtu.be/fQ_ZRBLFOXw?si=rIF6p5eVg36N_hAO
JohanFroding@reddit
It's probably mean to write this but I'd like to convey to you that you have nothing to do with those countries other than your classic immigrant identity crisis. Many such cases.
JACOB_WOLFRAM@reddit
Average diaspora, demanding ultra-nationalist policies in his native country from the comfort of his seat in his host country
Oatcake47@reddit
Shit, we are going to need an ambulance for that sick burn!!!!
Oatcake47@reddit
You are a rocket, pure and simple. Why don’t you change that flag? Worried people will glance over you even more with a stars and stripes?
Westoid? You are 100% a red pilled american that has fallen for propaganda. Either side, left or right I don’t know. But you are a roaster and perhaps glaikit.
Mein_Bergkamp@reddit
Westoid.
Has Scotland flair.
You're either very confused, a tankie or a Reform wet dream
Oatcake47@reddit
Fuck reform, fuck tankies, fuck whatever you are. You are not scottish.
Oatcake47@reddit
Don’t think they do…
Monterenbas@reddit
Why would the EU help a member of the CSTO?
SweetLoLa@reddit
This.
Win32error@reddit
Russia can’t pretend to be shocked that the Azeris are emboldened. Not when the Armenians got fucked, they’re pretty much forced to look to the west in hopes of any aid. If you let an aggressor get away with it and look weak in the process, they’re gonna keep pushing until they get at least a firm response.
Russia probably can’t make that response in a credible way as long as they’re tied up in Ukraine.
Strange_Diamond_7891@reddit
Didn’t Azerbaijan just retake its territories occupied by Armenia? Why would Russia help Armenia in that matter ? Or am I missing something?
Win32error@reddit
It’s true that nargorno Karabakh was contested, but Russia was supposed to be in Armenia’s corner, and in the past they had been. To Armenia, losing a chunk of land while your ally does nothing means you don’t really have much of an ally, so you need to start looking for other friends to help you against potential further aggression.
For everyone else, Russia just let this happen because they’re stretched. That makes them look incredibly weak.
moonorplanet@reddit
Another issue was the Armenian president simultanosly declared Nagorno-Karabakh as Azeri land, renderings the CSTO defence treaty null while also declaring his intention to exit the CSTO.
MultifactorialAge@reddit
Armenias PM took an anti Russian stance even before he got into office. Russia stood by against Azeri aggression in part because they were stretched in Ukraine, but also to send a message to Armenia that they have no ally in the region outside of Russia. Not sure how well that worked since now both Azerbaijan and Armenia are pissed off at Russia. I’ve said this in the past, Putin might wind down Ukraine war and turn his gaze to the Caucasus to keep his was time economy going.
BendicantMias@reddit
Armenia being pissed at Russia doesn't matter. They have no other friends apart from Russia and Iran, and Pashinyan is on his way out next election.
Mein_Bergkamp@reddit
Russia was Armenia's ally and had troops in nagorno karabakh, however being occupied with Ukraine they didn't get involved and simply stood back.
This has not only pissed off Armenia but basically made it obvious to Azerbaijan that Russia isn't able to project military power outside it's borders (other than Ukraine obviously).
Since Russia just shot down an Azeri civilian jet they're now public enemy No1 over there.
moonorplanet@reddit
During the 2023 offensive into Artsakh, Russia lost 5 peacekeepers while Armenia didn't loose a single soldier as they didn't deploy.
BendicantMias@reddit
Russia was itself pissed off with Armenia before that, due to Pashinyans' activities, which likely also played a role in their reticence. Why would they reward the man who basically turned his back on them? He's now one of the most unpopular leaders in the world, sure to lose the next election, which is exactly as Russia would like it.
Vassago81@reddit
Even the traitorous Armenian president didn't give a crap about Artsakh and was very vocal about it.
Monterenbas@reddit
They did that, then then they attacked armenia propre territory, to wich Russia reacted by doing absolutely nothing. So much for the CSTO…
Monterenbas@reddit
They did that, then then they attacked armenia territory proper, to wich Russia reacted by doing absolutely nothing. So much for the CSTO, lol.
TheDBryBear@reddit
Calling Armenia a western puppet is hilarious considering they are in the CSTO and the Eurasian Economic Union. If Russia actually helped its allies then maybe they would behave in a way that will make online propagandists think they are allies.
1DarkStarryNight@reddit (OP)
can you read?
I didn't call the country a Western puppet, but the current prime minister 100% is.
that said,
you are right — ARM is a Russia ally. this is fundamental to ARM’s identity as a state. there can be no independent, nationalist, ARM state w/o Russia.
TheDBryBear@reddit
Well, that is just pure, unadulterated bullshit. Any state can decide to align with any other state depending on their interests, that's what Independent means. Russia failed to aid Armenia in their hour of need, so Armenia is realigning to countries like France who actually help them. Nobody needs Russia. Russia is just mad that all of their neighbours would rather closely align with the EU, Turkey or China because they actually get something out of it. It's the height of arrogance and very pathetic. The russian empire has been slowly dying for a 100 years plus and has nothing left to offer but threats and subterfuge.
Monterenbas@reddit
Pashinyan wouldn’t have turned to the West, if the CSTO and russia didn’t proved to be such a joke, in the face of the Azeri threat.
SweetLoLa@reddit
My input - if Pashinyan (idk why you censored) wasn’t busy trying to get Armenia in the EU then Armenia would continue to be used and abused by Putin, Erdogan and Aliyev.
I gotta say the bashing on Pashinyan, quite literally the only person working to progress and advance Armenia globally to ensure that their people flourish and thrive and live without the constant worry that their sons will have to fight another war based on ethnically cleansing territories… fubar.
Armenia, damned if they do - damned if they don’t ay?
At some point those shady deals Aliyev made with Putin to allow said ethnic cleansing were going to fall through, and here we see it in real time. And this doesn’t lessen the danger to Armenia btw it only increases it. The entire reason Russia allowed the Artsakh war to continue was so they could take over control of those territories - that didn’t work out in their favor and now ev en after the loss and Aliyev gaining control - the truth of the matter remains that sovereign Armenian land does not belong to Russia, Azerbaijan or Turkey.
Which brings us back to your input - I hope Pashinyan remains busy and continues pressing for Armenia to be included at all tables. Do you have any idea how much money Turkey puts into US lobbyists, politicians to influence matters or to simply have them look away?
Anyone following the Pashinyan propaganda that he’s a traitor, working for the Turks, etc. is just falling for Putins tactics. Putin would love nothing more than a crook at the helm handing over anything and everything to him.
bad_ed_ucation@reddit
My thoughts exactly, as someone with a little academic background in Armenian geopolitics. op seems to have some rather curious ideas about Pashinyan.
SweetLoLa@reddit
They’re working overtime for Putin and hoping others are getting paid for their retorts to the bullshit they’re selling… poorly at that.
1DarkStarryNight@reddit (OP)
lol, I genuinely hope most people like you r paid for, shills, like the mods of the main sub, otherwise ur country is cooked.
there will be no EU membership. Even assuming the EU was actually serious about it (and they are not, they don't give a toss about Armenia) it is practically impossible for it to join the EU unless one of Turkey or Georgia join first.
Another war will happen regardless, it's just that, next time if P*shinyan has his way, nobody will be there to help the country in any shape or form and well, it will be wiped off the map.
P*shinyan has actively pursued a ‘Turkification’ campaign — this is obvious & clear looking at his actions and rhetoric.
Putin made no deal with Aliyev. let's remind — in 2020 Russia was the only country, in the entire world, not your beloved West — that meaningfully helped Armenia, the only. a fact. after Russia got involved in Ukraine, Pshinyan anchorage by the West, left Russian mediation, recognize NK as part of Azerbaijan, and basically decided to willingly give away everything. Lukashenko publicly said that Putin called him and was ‘shocked’ at what P was doing, he couldn't understand it. Pshinyan also made clear that there will be no troops sent over to fight Azerbaijan.
Pshinyan then expected Russia to... what? go to war w/ Azerbaijan ** in a territory that Pshinyan says ** it's Azeri, all whilst being heavily bogged down in Ukraine? wtf is this logic?
in reality, he knew exactly what he was doing: side with the West, give up whatever you can get away w/ giving up, and blame Russia. it is incredible, in a way, but it has somewhat worked. like the state Duma deputy said (who cares more about the people than their own PM), he is a master manipulator.
If he wins next year, he will do so much damage, over the next 5 years, u will be speaking Turkish by the end of it (that's assuming you are actually in Armenia, and I hope that's the case, given you are supporting an outright traitor — at least you will see what it's like first-hand).
Russia is the only country that can act as protector & enable true ARM nationalism (instead of the Western-backed ‘real ARM’ bs). real nationalists recognise this — traitors do not.
SweetLoLa@reddit
And I genuinely hope that you unplug yourself from the Russian propaganda that is being shoved down your throat and being spewed out of that hole on your face.
GalacticMe99@reddit
I really wonder what they are too busy with...
Messier_-82@reddit
Georgia 2.0 incoming
Brief_Lead_8380@reddit
Azerbaijanis accusing others as genetically ocuppaying others land, where have I seen that before???
PlutosGrasp@reddit
Now is the best time to do it if they’re ever going to do it. Russia is literally all in on Ukraine and can barely make progress. Going after another territory right now is the best opportunity they’re ever going to get.
Turgius_Lupus@reddit
Unlike Russia, Azerbaijan is a glorified station, and that industry being taken out will make it irrelevant.
Inprobamur@reddit
Mate, Russia is also completely dependent on oil money.
Brief_Lead_8380@reddit
I doubt Aliyev will ever really make an actual attack that declares war because while it seems like Armenia has been completely dealt with and as such Azerbaidjan can freely attack Russia with all they have this would create a new enemy that now has reasons to more directly help Armenia rettack Karabakh by attacking Azerbaidjan in both sides, which would m.ean the end of Alyev
Jazzlike_Method_7642@reddit
The rw playbook is the same everywhere.
1) Find an external thing to point at - could be immigrants, neighbouring countries, religions, former colonial rulers or just the general enemy of the day
2) blame them for literally every single thing that's wrong in the country, in an attempt to forget about the vast policy failures of their own regime
3) pick one or two examples that are tangentially connected, and manipulate these instances to confirm every single negative stereotype of aforementioned external thing
4) have paid influencers amplify this thought process to sheep who won't question why
5) PROFIT
da0217@reddit
Offering a cease fire is an act of a neutral party, not an ally. That is an exceedingly low bar.
“Most of the casualties could have been prevented” has nothing to do with people saying Armenia didn’t fight and gave up Kharabagh.
Of course Pashinyan was unwilling to fight. How could he choose to fight against a formidable foe with actual support from actual powerful allies like Turkey when all his ally can muster is “offers of cease fires.”
Active-Walk-6402@reddit
There are two neurons shared by both countries governments, and they're competing for the third place
Eexoduis@reddit
Sounds good! Russia does have a long history of brutal imperialism and genocide. It’s interesting that these smaller regional are comfortable now making incendiary gestures towards the Federation, so assured in their security. Russia doesn’t typically take dissent from state narratives well - often responding with subversive, violent action. Aliyev knows though that Russia has committed absolutely everything in their 4 year invasion of their next door neighbor. Rather pathetic that this is the full might of the Russian empire these days.
The__Machinist@reddit
There can be only one country with long history of brutal imperialism and genocide. And we know who that is 🙏
TheDBryBear@reddit
That's good how I view it, too. Aliyev is a villain, but he is not stupid. Instead of taking more from Armenia or internal groups he just selects another external enemy that he can galvanize people against. By having the right enemy and also exporting fossil fuels he can profit massively in the west. Russia cannot easily punish him.
LatterTarget7@reddit
Russia won’t be able to fight on multiple fronts like this. This a dumb decision on their part
mylaptopredditVC@reddit
backed by turkey
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