Spirit Airlines files for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection for the second time in a year

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flynryan692@reddit

Part of the plan, I think. Having nearly 50 aircraft sitting in Arizona with no engines making no money is the big killer. They will end up dumping most of them in this bankruptcy. Reuters also reported they were meeting with Frontier, so after dumping the dead weight, I could see another attempt at an acquisition.

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Vortagaun@reddit

Wonder if Delta would pick these up, they need to retire their old 737-800s and A320s, and their A321Neos use GTF engines. Could be a bargain for them since all of these planes are in need of engine fixes.

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Ok_Excitement725@reddit

United already looked at a bunch of Spirits airframes and it was determined the cost to retrofit the cabins + flight deck software + other maintenance needs would far outweigh the benefit of aquiring them. Not sure if Delta would feel the same way or not though

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Cisco10812@reddit

far out weigh the benefit... Untill you get them for pennies on the dollar in BK fire sale.

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Ok_Excitement725@reddit

True. Unfortunately I don’t think we will be wait long to find out who takes what during the liquidation

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CompassCardCaptain@reddit

Delta won't touch them. They're super frugal with their acquisitions. These airplanes would be crazy expensive to retrofit. Plus, considering they were all leased to spirit, there won't be any wholesale deals.

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vman3241@reddit

Who would touch them then? AA, B6, and NK?

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SoothedSnakePlant@reddit

Probably overseas low-cost airlines tbh.

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CompassCardCaptain@reddit

That I don't know. I just know how Delta acquires airplanes.

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njsullyalex@reddit

Delta’s oldest operational A320 is from 1990, the oldest A320 in the U.S. and inherited from the Northwest merger. Their A320s are absolutely ancient

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LDRispurehell@reddit

I took a picture of this old, 33 year old work horse the other day at LAX.

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MurkyPsychology@reddit

They’re in the middle of a cabin refit on the 738s, I’d expect them to stay around for several more years. Most of them were delivered in the early 2000s, that’s practically a brand new airplane by Delta’s standards lol

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RastaFarva@reddit

Most airlines would pick them up for the right price

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vman3241@reddit

Would be an enormous own goal if Delta gets a bunch of their assets after JetBlue was blocked from getting them by the previous DOJ for anticompetitive reasons.

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deleted_by_reddit@reddit

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Express_Cookie9735@reddit

All of the parked aircraft are A320neos. Since Delta doesn't have them, I wouldn't get my hopes up.

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Armanus14@reddit

Although it would be nice to see delta 320N’s

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SlothSpeed@reddit

They have 321 neos.

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SlothSpeed@reddit

I'm sure they would love to for the right price.

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Sh00ter80@reddit

I’ll take one! $500 final offer

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277330128@reddit

If those 50 aircraft were flying Spirit would be in even worse shape

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CerebralAccountant@reddit

That's the real problem! If Spirit adds any routes or frequencies right now, they should be less profitable than the current average. The current average is unsustainable.

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FlyingSceptile@reddit

However average fuel efficiency would improve, meaning routes that do not make money with older airplanes, might make money with newer planes.

That said, I think their entire business model is in danger, so it’d be like the Black Night in Monty Python putting a tourniquet on one arm, when he’s missing the other and both of his legs.

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testthrowawayzz@reddit

I just read that China Airlines is planning to lease 5 of Spirit's A321neos

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ludicrous780@reddit

I always thought they should merge.

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OrionAldebaran@reddit

Aren’t budget airlines extremely profitable? Look at Ryanair or Air Asia. Maybe someone can fill me in why this happened?

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blueberrycauzez@reddit

Aside from different management and buisness strategy, they have different cost dynamics, more competition, and cultural differences.

There has been a huge increaze in violence at American airports by unruly passengers, and their government does little to punish or prevent those passengers from flying again. Travelers associate that violence with Spirit more than any other airline, since their branding is so visible and emphasizes their value, so more and more travelers are now avoiding Spirit specifically.

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YourwaifuSpeedWagon@reddit

They operate in different markets.

Distances between major destinations are on average shorter in Europe than in the US. Europe does not tax aviation fuel. American consumers have higher demand for business/premium economy and generally expect higher level of service. There are many more airlines operating in Europe than in the US, meaning more competition.

All of this makes it easier for ULCCs to thrive in Europe than in the US.

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Pleasant_Tangelo6791@reddit

Fork stick indicates it’s done

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TheDepressedSolider@reddit

Got all them plans but no engines . What a shame

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ScienceMechEng_Lover@reddit

If only the idiots at the DoJ didn't block the JetBlue and Spirit merger or the Spirit and Frontier merger. Idiots stopped it because iT wOuLd ReDuCe CoMpEtItIoN, as if margins in the airline industry aren't already razor thin..

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toad__warrior@reddit

margins in the airline industry aren't already razor thin..

Gross profits for the previous 12 months

Delta $18B

United $24B

American $13B

Southwest $6B

Jet blue $5B

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vman3241@reddit

Huh? Pretty sure JetBlue had a massive loss. Are you talking about revenue?

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toad__warrior@reddit

Gross profits for 2024 was $5.5B

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jmlinden7@reddit

Gross profits is just revenue minus COGS. It's not actual profit because it doesn't include overhead expenses.

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toad__warrior@reddit

COGS can/usually includes fuel and possibly leases. It does not include labor, maintenance, etc.

So is it perfect? No. Does it give an idea of what a company looks like financially? At a high level it does. After the bean counters do their thing, a loss can be realized - if that is what the board wants.

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jmlinden7@reddit

Net income is better because overhead expenses are very real. Accounting, HR, IT are all things you need to run an airline

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fly_awayyy@reddit

Joanna (CEO of JetBlue) pretty much said verbatim it was a blessing they didn’t merge in disguise now that they looked back on everything. So I’m not sure if you can just blame the DOJ if the buyer even had remorse. They were going to overpay by over $1 billion, have almost 90+ planes grounded for 2 airlines that are loss making. Yeaaa you probably would’ve seen the end of both.

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MurkyPsychology@reddit

Yeah, I love B6 and really want them to succeed so in retrospect I’m glad that didn’t happen. Hopefully the loyalty partnership with UA + selling some of their JFK slots will help them out a bit and they remain independent

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fly_awayyy@reddit

Unfortunately I think it might just be a stop gap for now. They have a good product and are a good airline they just have and continue to make some operational mistakes that a mature airline wouldn’t and it continues to bite them in the butt.

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MurkyPsychology@reddit

Yeah that’s what I’m afraid of too. If they don’t make some changes I worry about their long-term success. They’ve already been cutting routes and completely exiting stations like crazy, along with making other weird decisions. For example, they downgraded SEA-BOS from Mint to a regular all-economy A321, eliminating their advantage on that route. There’s essentially no reason to pick them over Alaska or Delta anymore. Wouldn’t be surprised to see that route cut completely soon enough.

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vman3241@reddit

For example, they downgraded SEA-BOS from Mint to a regular all-economy A321, eliminating their advantage on that route. There’s essentially no reason to pick them over Alaska or Delta anymore. Wouldn’t be surprised to see that route cut completely soon enough.

You're misstating the cause and effect. Delta and Alaska already don't offer like flat on that route because Microsoft and other employers in the area only pay for economy flights. JetBlue tried putting Mint on that route, but they got rid of it because there wasn't enough demand.

On the other hand, JetBlue gets a tremendous amount of business traffic on BOS-SFO

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I_am_Mun_C@reddit

I flew BOS-SEA many times and Mint was always nearly empty, so I wouldn’t say that there was an advantage on that route. The high density 321 is a better choice because they can redeploy that Mint aircraft to a market where people are actually going to fill those Mint seats.

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biggsteve81@reddit

Blocking the Frontier merger was the real mistake. Jet Blue just wanted them for their gate and landing slots, not to continue competing as a ULCC.

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thatblkman@reddit

The merger with Frontier was not blocked. Spirit terminated it, and subsequently tried merging with JetBlue.

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cyberentomology@reddit

And their aircraft.

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lil_layne@reddit

The DOJ didn’t block the Frontier Spirit merger, Spirit’s shareholders did.

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EmbarrassedPart6210@reddit

JetBlue merger made sense to block, the frontier merger should’ve went through

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vman3241@reddit

The argument the DOJ made for blocking the JetBlue merger applies even more to the Frontier merger. They argued the merger should be blocked because JetBlue and Spirit have too much route overlap. Frontier and Spirit have even more route overlap.

The reason neither merger should be blocked is that Philadelphia National Bank was wrongly decided by SCOTUS. SCOTUS basically read the Sherman Act to block mergers even if they increase competition in 99 markets if they reduce competition in 1 market. That decision was clearly wrong and has no basis in the text

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Powered_by_JetA@reddit

The problem with Spirit + JetBlue wasn’t just the route overlap; it’s that JetBlue made the mistake of admitting that they wanted to merge with Spirit to wipe out a competitor. A Spirit + Frontier merger that retains the ultra low cost model would produce a bigger competitor that can continue to provide downward pricing pressure against the legacy carriers.

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vman3241@reddit

A Spirit + Frontier merger that retains the ultra low cost model would produce a bigger competitor that can continue to provide downward pricing pressure against the legacy carriers.

I don't believe either was anticompetitive and think that Philadelphia National Bank should be overruled, but if you believe that the JetBlue+Spirit was anticompetitive, Frontier+Spirit is more anticompetitive because they have more route overlap.

The term ULCC is just a label at the end of the day. If Frontier+Spirit have no competition or very little competition on a route, there is no incentive for them to have low prices and prices will go up. It would be similarly dubious if Delta rebranded as a ULCC tomorrow and argued that they should be allowed to buy Spirit since they're both ULCCs

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dirtydriver58@reddit

Previous admin

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No_Job2527@reddit

The problem with spirit is nobody who is willing to pay real money to fly will get on spirit. That airline is unfortunately connected with a certain type of flyers and hearing Worldstar screamed while watching a ratchet fight on the plane

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Lebo77@reddit

Ah, good old chapter 22.

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deleted_by_reddit@reddit

[removed]

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this_my_sportsreddit@reddit

Good. Bye.

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hgwelz@reddit

(No Spirit to my city). On major routes, is Spirit a first choice?

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FlyingSceptile@reddit

Depends. They’re often the cheapest, but also typically fly fewer frequencies. Most business travelers avoid them, but fine if your doing a weekend trip to Vegas

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benshenanigans@reddit

Weekend trips to Vegas are exclusively how I use Spirit.

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thrownjunk@reddit

Hey, some do weekends to Florida! (The only time ive used them)

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Starbucks__Lovers@reddit

I did ACY to FLL to catch a dolphins game. Left at 6 am, got back at 10 pm. Game tickets, spirit tickets, Ubers and food ran me and my buddy $250

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SnarlyBirch@reddit

Same

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Guadalajara3@reddit

Thats the spirit

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Historical_Gur_3054@reddit

Alright dad, you were waiting for that one

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pds6502@reddit

love seeing the big yellow banana at BUR, adds great color to those whites, reds&blues, and shamu's

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T-MoneyAllDey@reddit

Spirit is the cheapest way for me to get from LAX -> ATL regularly but their timeslots suck. ASs crack of dawn or midnight lol

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Notpoligenova@reddit

They are internationally from BWI. Their CUN flights are 30-40% cheaper than Southwest. Aside from that, WN has a monopoly here.

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PhAnToM444@reddit

If your goal is to get somewhere as cheaply as possible and don’t really care about comfort or being on time, yes.

Though I will say their Big Front Seat (real name) is a… surprisingly great product for the price. It’s barely a step down from domestic first class and often less than half the price in my experience.

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T-MoneyAllDey@reddit

Yeah, I snag it a pretty good bit using their bidding system

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moondoggie_00@reddit

Orlando is a major hub for them as you can see, so lots of Disney families trying to save a few bucks on a short (2-4 hour) flight. Small seats don't matter to the kids.

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benki_blaster@reddit

Are most of your clothes from Walmart? Then yes, probably a first choice.

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Lane8323@reddit

Being off by $500mil on forecasted profits is insane

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CerebralAccountant@reddit

Not just $500 million, but 200%. They were expecting a $250 million profit and lost that much instead.

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Starbucks__Lovers@reddit

That’s usually what happens to me when I make a run to Vegas

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tempaccount521@reddit

Bad time to realize you forgot a negative sign in the spreadsheet.

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pds6502@reddit

Could this also have anything to do with letting go of responsibilities for loads of pensions and long term care contracts?

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toad__warrior@reddit

Anyone who is relying on a pension is a fool. The can/do get "restructured" and you get fucked.

I recall reading an article that Boeing is looking into restructuring their pension.

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pds6502@reddit

Same thing at ibm when they let go of the Storage Technology Division in 2003. Shafted countless hoards of long loyal workers within 6 months of full vesting their 25+ service years, as they were transitioned to private 401k's. IBM Alliance put up a good fight but in the end lost.

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