Staying warm in the winter in a grid-down scenario and no fireplace?
Posted by GerthySchIongMeat@reddit | preppers | View on Reddit | 135 comments
I live in Michigan and have been looking into options to at least keep my family warm should the power go out in the winter.
I do have a generator to hookup to the furnace but if we assume an extended grid-down scenario occurs, then I’d like to have a backup plan that’s somewhat cost effective. Not looking to heat the whole house but at least keep us from freezing to death.
Appropriate-Truth-88@reddit
Insulation.
There's kits for diy, and companies that will cut a small hole in your drywall and fill any space gaps between whatever you've got for insulation and the walls with closed cell spray foam, repair the hole so you'll never know it was there. Companies might do this from home exterior.
Depending on the era of when your house was built, there may be as little as R7 in your walls. R value is what it's guaranteed to hold temp to. I think R20 is like 60 at 0 degrees, and what the standard depth of 2x4 framing holds.
You always want higher in your roof and under your house. The walls between rooms aren't always insulated. Make sure those also get treatment.
Exposed pipes can be covered with cut pool noodles for insulation. They also sell hay bales that are basically vacuumed sealed, you can put in the crawl space that will also help significantly with heat and pipe bursting prevention. Cuts and blocks drafts.
Solar generator, and probably solar mini split. There's one specifically for off grid that runs directly off solar panels during the day, but can also be hooked up to a generator or the inverter/battery bank at night. You'd want 12 or 24V system. Everyone might be enamored with 48v but the reality is in a doomsday situation car batteries are gonna be everywhere, as cars are abandoned or sold for lack of fuel. They can also be recharged with a battery charger off a standard generator. There are people who've got hybrid offgrid systems that have the whole set up, no panels, and charge the battery banks every few days.
An older diesel generator can be run on biodiesel made out of rubbing alcohol and some canola oil or car chemicals you probably have in your garage. Needs to be flammable and the right viscosity. You can use old sheets if you need to filter used oil.
Then there's terracotta pots and a tea light candle systems. Small candles can be made out of many items in emergencies including animal fat, wood, wax from spent candles and cardboard.
Super easy and I believe a low fire risk. I know multiple people who have used this method during ice storms and prolonged power outages cause winters in the North East are rough.
Terracotta pot method is probably the most cost efficient, time efficient, easily sourced way to heat places during a long term power or fuel crisis.
You don't want standard gas, anything for doomsday. It goes bad too quickly.
Save your natural gas for things that actually need it.
Then military cold weather garment and sleeping systems and you'll be gravy.
KAJ35070@reddit
Look into Little Buddy portable heaters
TerriblePabz@reddit
This, I picked up a large one and the adapters for large propane tanks as well as a dozen or so of the small canisters. If Im just running it in 1 room than I only need to use it for a few minutes to get the whole room comfortable. Add in some very heavy king sizes blankets, winter clothing, and insulating the windows.
I tried it for a weekend last winter. I cooked myself out on day 1 because I left it on for a full hour. It was warm/comfortable the entire day and most of the night. Woke up a little chilly but used almost no fuel. The next day I ran it for about 30 minutes around 9am and another 30 min at 9pm. It kept things feeling normal for where I keep my house at now (around 68-72°F). My house is also 100 years old, has terrible insulation, and almost all the windows need to be resealed. So I sealed my bedroom window, hung a layer of plastic about an inch away and sealed it down, then hung another layer about 2 inches away from that one and sealed it, then hung a wool blanket over curtain rod and used small nails to secure it tighter to the wall around the window.
The rest of my house was about 20° colder than my room and the temp outside was bouncing around the 20s when I tried this.
TwoFarNorth@reddit
Thank you for writing this up, it makes me feel better. I have a Mr. Heater Buddy but I haven't had a chance to use it yet as I bought it during a heat wave. However, where I live it gets dangerously cold in the winter and it is reassuring to know that by closing off a room and sealing off the windows, it does a decent job of warming an area with little fuel.
ThymeMintMugwort@reddit
No, they have given terrible advice. Absolutely do not seal a room completely off with a propane heater burning - you can die.
https://www.reddit.com/r/preppers/s/3qo0SWK50y
I found this post to help you understand how to stay safe
TerriblePabz@reddit
Just to be clear, I did not seal the entire room. I only sealed and added air gap insulators to the window where there are significant drafts.
I do agree that totally sealing up a space and running propane is not smart and can result in death. I have used portable propane heaters for my entire life and the only time one has ever NEARLY caught something on fire was when there was not a clear space around it and it was sitting on something flammable. All of which are very clear in the warnings if you read the directions included. User error does not constitute Mr. Buddy portable heaters being unsafe.
Again though, I do agree with the point you are making involving the use of propane in a sealed off space and the risk of fire.
TwoFarNorth@reddit
Thanks for the link and information. Honestly I'm pretty terrified of having to use something like a Mr. Buddy heater indoors (I consider it a last resort), so the posted link is a great resource.
ThymeMintMugwort@reddit
You’re welcome
HappyWatermelon7@reddit
I second Little Buddy
Eredani@reddit
How long do you expect your supply of propane to last?
Kristybliss@reddit
This is what I use
PNWoutdoors@reddit
And battery powered fans, those heaters just send the heat straight up. Circulating the warm air helps warm up everything in the room which can later radiate a bit of heat when the heater is not running.
XRlagniappe@reddit
I have a few of the Mr. Heater Big Buddy propane heaters as well. Bought some of the 1 lb refillable propane bottles from Flame King and a refill kit. I also have a few of the 20 lb BBQ propane tanks because I have a propane BBQ. You have to get a special hose that lets it connect the larger tanks to the Big Buddy heaters.. Got a few of the inductor fans to help circulate the heat, some of which come with a special bracket that fits the heaters.
Straight_Ace@reddit
I’m not located in Michigan, but here in Massachusetts we’ve gotten some really bad winter weather. I’m used to living in a room with no insulation in the walls, so what I’ve always done is layer up, and if it’s an especially brutally cold night, I slept in a sleeping bag underneath my blankets on my bed, and slept with the hood up.
With my guinea pigs, I covered their cage with a fitted sheet but left the sides uncovered a bit so they could still breathe.
Careful_Fox3449@reddit
Get a pair of big heater cats to snuggle with you
Potential-Load9313@reddit
you're in Michigan?
you guys have some super rough winters, and while heaters are a really good prep, I would probably look into the history of fur trapping in your area... those trappers survived some of the worst weather you can imagine with very little shelter
I personally believe that you will get more mileage from a good set of cold-weather clothes than any heater
McRibs2024@reddit
When I left the army I took with me the silk layer and the waffle layers. I cannot stress how much work those have put in keeping me warm in very cold situations. Highly recommend and they also get mileage in being used outside of a grid down scenario
Ok-Way8392@reddit
Silk layers and waffle layers? Is this two pair of pants? I’d like to give this a try, but I’m not sure what you’re talking about.
McRibs2024@reddit
So they’re the first two layers in the army extreme cold weather system (ECWS). I’m not sure if there’s a new acronym now a days since I have been out for over a decade.
The silk layer are like under armor and your base layer you wear under your clothes. I found these on eBay just now for example:
https://ebay.us/m/8iZiss
The waffle layer is the next layer. I wore these over the silks and under my uniform or the jacket shell. Here’s the waffle top for example:
https://ebay.us/m/9ZGz6O
I still wear the waffle top around the house in the fall and winter it’s super comfy and warm.
Tactical_Tuesday@reddit
I was never in the military but I tried surplus base layers once and I have never looked back. The silk and waffle combo is amazing especially for like >$14
McRibs2024@reddit
The cold weather layering system they have is honestly great. I was stationed at drum and would have gunnery in brutal cold every winter. Those systems did a great job. The sleep system is solid too. Spent more than a few nights sleeping on the hood of a humvee when it snowed and I was toasty in it. The bivee cover for the sleeping bag worked perfect keeping me dry too.
Tactical_Tuesday@reddit
I just bought a surplus MSS with woodland bivee for camping, excited to try it out!
premar16@reddit
Also we moved on to modern heating because a lot of of people didn't survive
Onaru@reddit
Yeah but they used what they had and survived. The same situation in a grid down situation. No point in shunning it because it's not modern enough.
Wooden-Sprinkles7901@reddit
They also lived in cabins with wood stoves, op does not have that.
Potential-Load9313@reddit
wood stoves are fantastic... I grew up with a wood stove as the only heating source
insurance companies hate them though, so it might not be a good option depending on OP's financial situation
my Dad is getting on in years, and he has since replaced his stove with a mini split system.... he's actually trying to sell his vintage Craft wood stove for only $150, but us kids are trying to keep it in the family
Wooden-Sprinkles7901@reddit
Yeah keep the wood stove, theyre excellent for self sustainability.
Alalaskan@reddit
Get a kerosene indoor radiant heater, safe for indoor heating. Don’t require electricity and uses fuel readily available and easy to store.
First_Roll9442@reddit
The only problem with kerosene is the limited shelf life; you have to either buy it when the outage hits or use/rotate your supply. Kerosene heaters are better for supplemental heat than for on-demand emergency heating.
Propane shelf life is virtually unlimited.
Alalaskan@reddit
Yup, up to 5 years if stored in the original container, and then adding a a couple ounces of fuel stabilizer to the kerosene once per year once opened should keep it in a good condition for much longer – potentially indefinitely. So yeah you are correct.
featurekreep@reddit
Whenever I do the math on BTUs/$ Mr buddy heater and 20lb tanks comes out ahead.
I had 2 kerosene heaters and sold them both when I figured this out.
Fabulous-Cantaloupe1@reddit
Came here to say the same. One heater, two 5 gal cans of kerosene and you will be good for a week (or two) for under $200. You can also warm water/ cook on top of the heater.
Just open a door and let some fresh air in every 8 hours or so.
roxannegrant@reddit
I don't believe kerosene heaters are safe indoors because of potential carbon monoxide poisoning. They use a lot of oxygen.
Alalaskan@reddit
Propane has a much higher potential for carbon monoxide poisoning than kerosene.
pile_of_fish@reddit
Easiest and cheapest option is to camp in your basement. Earth will keep it above freezing down there, and warm clothes and blankets can keep you not cozy but at least safe at that point.
Due_Network1953@reddit
Where I live a lot of people rely on woodstoves as their sole source of heat in the winter.
No-Language6720@reddit
You don't have a natural gas furnace? Natural gas is highly reliable way more reliable than the electrical grid. You should be ok if electricity goes out in that case. If you want additional protection, you can get mini splits that run on electric that can run off a generator even a solar battery generator. There are mini splits that heat and cool. In additional you can get a portable space heater, just be careful not to leave them plugged in too long or it could cause a fire. If you have a backyard you can get a fire pit for cooking and some warmth as well.
drnewcomb@reddit
My brother worked for a Vermont architect. They had to design ventilation into their houses to admit cold air in the winter because the electric lights would over-heat the house. Have your house’s insulation checked and upgraded, if needed.
What powers your generator? Will it power a heater? Can you store more of it.
People look at me in the winter and ask, “Are you cold?” I reply, “Oh no. I’m quite warm because of all this clothing.” Wonderful invention, clothing. I highly recommend it.
Tutkaau@reddit
Layer up with wool blankets and use foam pads to create a barrier against cold floors. Hats and layers are crucial for retaining heat.
LiberalsAreMental_@reddit
Don't think about generating heat when there is no electrical power and no fireplace. Think about insulation. Dress warmly, sit in the bottom of a closet that has clothes hanging above you, and cover yourself with a blanket. Keep the door open a crack to let air circulate.
Your car's engine can provide heat for a time. If you always fill up when you hit 1/2 a tank of gas, then you will have an average of 3/4 of a tank at any time. Do you know how long your car can idle on 3/4 of a tank of gas?
Some say to insulate the whole place, but that only delays the loss of heat. Your body can warm part of a closet very effectively. If you are going to insulate your whole place, think about insulating the windows and gaps around the doors for year-round energy efficiency, not about putting up blankets after the power fails.
Do not bring a fire indoors without a fireplace. Asphyxiation and carbon monoxide poisoning are real dangers.
VernalPoole@reddit
I think there was better moderation before reddit made some changes (got bought out?). A few of my favorite subs disappeared rather than comply with the new directives.
Intelligent_hexagon@reddit
Kerosene heaters are safe to use indoors. I gave each of my family members one a few years ago
RevolutionarySea4754@reddit
I live in Montana in a area that regularly gets to -50 with windchill every eyear. I've had a lot of luck with insulation and good quality clothes. All my windows are insulated with plastic, my walls are thick and padded, and I keep plenty of fabric and blankets around. Unless its cold enough to freeze my pipes I dont bother with my heater even sometimes. But I cant recomend leathers, furs, wools ect enough. We've gone camping in dead winter and use insulation in our tent and REALLY good fabric to keep warm and it works fine.
456name789@reddit
Do you have a tent? Choose a room in your house that best suits everyone being together in that room for an extended period. You’ll want to consider bathroom access. Even if it doesn’t work, you’ll want the separate space to set up a potty situation.
Example, I have a fireplace and wood so I’d choose my livingroom to close off while also keeping a corridor to the bathroom. I would create an airlock type arrangement between the two so I’m not necessarily heating the bathroom. I’d set the tent up in the middle of the room.
If I didn’t have a fireplace, like you, I’d choose the bedroom across from a bathroom that’s also on the south side of the house. It only has one window, and one exterior wall. I’d set up my tent in the middle.
Think on it and choose that room now. You can add extra insulation to that room now. And if there’s an attic above it, increase that insulation, too. You can store the tent and supplies in that room now. You can rig up a system to hang blankets, like heavy duty curtain rods, now and choose blankets and store them in that room.
Open-Attention-8286@reddit
If you don't have a tent, practice your blanket-fort skills! With a mattress as the base, a well-made blanket fort can keep you surprisingly toasty. Just remember to keep airflow in mind.
Independent_Role4618@reddit
Yes a tent to create microclimates as per https://theprovidentprepper.org/6-lifesaving-tips-to-keep-warm-during-a-winter-power-outage/
No-Feed-1999@reddit
Was just gonna comment about a tent!
Aardvark-Decent@reddit
Fireplaces suck heat from a house. You are much better off with a wood burning insert.
456name789@reddit
I think that’s what I have? Metal box inset into brick with a gas starter (that I don’t use)?
TheLostExpedition@reddit
In Colorado we had the heat and power go out for a while. This was several years ago. My wife put a large tent in the living room . Put blankets over most of it. Then set up a smaller tent inside . And in the middle on cinder blocks we had a terracotta tea light heater with about 8 or9 tealights . We had plenty of air flow and it was cozy in sleeping bags. The kids loved it and we survived warm and it worked. We never left the fire unattended and we had a fire extinguisher just incase.
Achsin@reddit
Use spare blankets/towels to insulate the windows (and possibly the walls if needed), hang an extra blanket in front of the door to cut add more insulation and reduce heat loss when the door is opened, pitch a tent or two in the room to subdivide it and trap additional heat for sleeping. Move furniture out into other unoccupied spaces to make space if needed so you can limit the number of rooms and make them as efficient to heat as possible.
epicNag@reddit
Bubble wrap taped in front of windows and heavy velvety curtains work fine.
Radiant_Ad_6565@reddit
Look into tent stoves. Wood heat. Designed to be used in canvas tents. You can get a piece of sheet tin the size of a window, cut an opening the size of the pipe, use a flange on the interior pipe and vent it through a window. Get enough pipe and a spare elbow to go out a few feet from the exterior wall and up past the roof line and use a spark suppressor.
https://kodiakcanvas.com/products/colorado-cylinder-stove?variant=44440517116075
Katesouthwest@reddit
If you have the space, consider a camping tent in the middle of your living room as a sleeping area. Kids will love it, and body heat in a small enclosed area will help with warmth.
mediocre_remnants@reddit
Have you actually tested this? Many furnaces won't run from a generator because of the way the ground/neutral works. It's easy to modify your furnace to work with a generator, but it's something you really need to try out before you actually need it.
For a backup, propane heaters like the Mr Heater Buddy are decent if you hook them up to a big enough propane tank. The little 1lb canisters won't even last a single night.
For longer-term, consider installing a wood stove in your house to keep it warm in winter with wood.
GerthySchIongMeat@reddit (OP)
Yeah I’ve done it. I converted the furnace to hookup to a standard plug
Rogerdodger1946@reddit
We have a generator and our heat is natural gas so the only question is the surge when the blower starts. Of course the other question is whether the NG will stay available in a total grid down situation. We used our setup in a week long outage following a tornado and it worked.
fairmountvewe@reddit
Maybe a different generator? We have gasoline, diesel and propane fueled units. Just a 2000w unit should run your furnace no problem, and with any of the inverter/load sensing types, you can run a furnace for a long time on a tank of fuel.
STB265@reddit
Add one these to the furnace and plug the generator into it. I tried it and it works.
BOYISEN Generator Transfer Switch - 15 Amp 125V ETL Certificated Predrilled Manual Transfer Switch with Circuit Breaker, Pre Wired Power Inlet Box Waterproof for Generator Indoor Outdoor Home Use
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BW91KN19?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_conn_dt_b_fed_asin_title_19
ClimateBasics@reddit
I've never understood why generators just dump their radiator heat to ambient, and (some) mix engine exhaust in with that.
An engine uses \~1/3 of the energy in a gallon of gasoline to generate electricity, and the other 2/3 goes out as waste heat via the radiator (and some via exhaust).
Given that generators are used in winter to keep a home electrified in a grid-down situation, it would stand to reason that that 2/3 waste heat could be used to heat the house, and the engine exhaust directed away from the house via a flexible metal exhaust hose.
Have an elephant trunk-type flexible air duct that connects to the downwind side of the radiator and to the home, and pushes hot air into the home.
If you've got an 5000 W generator, then you've also got \~10000 W of heat energy (maximum), which would reduce electrical draw on the generator because you wouldn't need to run a furnace or electrical resistance heaters.
69stangrestomod@reddit
This has been on my mind too. I have a fireplace, but I haven’t been storing wood.
kkinnison@reddit
alcohol stove
you can make one with simple items from a hardware store and a drill
bonus no risk of fire hazard except from the flame, and can be used for cooking
LegitimateBee4678@reddit
Had 3 day gice storm in Midwest with no propane heaters, here’s what I did: power down, heater out. Close all doors and windows and move whole family to open concept living room/kitchen area. Set up king size air mattress in front of couch. Build blanket fort with kitchen chairs, kitchen bar, and furniture around new home inside home. Make fun, kids hate not fun, put them to work (increases body heat, provides purpose) collect anything that can insulate and bring to new home in home, fold and stack around edges for insulation and easy access. Bring winter clothing and any heat provider you have (buddy heater) build warm zone. Find new hobby— we went with monopoly and a deck of cards (taught toddlers Texas hold’em— do not recommend they learn math and will steal money later) use bread and peanut butter to make food, use jetboil to feed family easy meals, brave elements alone to make some meals on BBQ grill out back with limited supply of propane in blizzard outside home in home. Learn lessons, buy generator and fuel, backup solar battery, and yell at kids for not remembering why preparation is important🤣
ArcaneLuxian@reddit
Amish space heaters are great options. And they're quality made.
Longjumping-Army-172@reddit
Look into Buddy Heaters. Pick a room that is small, but large enough for all family members to be in. Cover the doors and windows with blankets, and run the Buddy on and off through out the night.
Zealousideal-Math388@reddit
I bought a natural gas fireplace from home depot probably 20 years ago for $250 . I placed it in basement and it keeps the house as warm as the furnace does on hi without the fan running a basement window cracked open as its ventless. Ranch house 1200 sq ft.
karebear66@reddit
Get a camping stove or heater run on butane they also recommend setting a tent in the room that you will heat.
DannyWarlegs@reddit
I had a long term winter grid down scenario back in 2009. Small mountain town got hit with a blizzard, no power for a few weeks. First few nights me and my girl had to stay in our house. We made it through that first night with the residual heat and more blankets, but woke up absolutely freezing.
Luckily, our basement had a small rec room walled in from the rest, with a gas Mr.Buddy wall heater installed. No power needed to run.
That thing kept us alive until a buddy could get his car up the mountain, and get us down to the bottom where he luckily still had power.
You hook them into your existing gas line of your house. Even with no power, you'll still have gas for a while. If you dont want to do that, you can run them directly off propane tanks. They put out way more heat than the small ones that run off a camper canister, one of those green ones.
I have one installed in my current house, in a spare room in the basement. I built it out myself and insulated all the walls and ceiling very well, as the room is also a storm shelter.
I keep extra wool and down blankets, hoodies, and coats hanging up down there. The heater is hooked up to my main propane tank, so it can run for a good while. Takes about 15-20 minutes to heat the room up, then I turn it down to the lowest setting and it will keep the room at 60° + while barely running.
GerthySchIongMeat@reddit (OP)
So I have an unfinished basement. It will drop to 51 at the lowest temp in the winter. Would you recommend heating a finished room in a grid down scenario?
DannyWarlegs@reddit
Honestly, yes. Find the closest gas line if youre going to tap in, and put the heater on that wall. Insulate the walls and ceiling as high of an R value you can afford, and get some thick moving blankets to hang above the doors and any windows to block out any drafts or cold air.
The room at my first place was about half the entire basement. We had a spare bed down there from an old roommate, and we moved it in front of the heater to stay warm.
The room i have now is only a small portion, maybe 12x20. The propane heater ive got will keep the whole room warm on the lowest setting all day and night, and only kick on a few times.
We have a futon couch, a rollaway bed, and a cot, along with a recliner down there so we can all fit. Throw in some candle heaters for light and spare heat, some LED Xmas lights or USB camping lights, and you've got heat and light at night
pixelkicker@reddit
If it was truly a bad situation, just build a fireplace.
Which_Highlight_8849@reddit
Depends on your level of commitment, but wood stoves don't take up a whole lot of space, and stove pipes can be installed different ways to suit the house you're living in.
Mind, I'm very biased. My wood stove and firewood supply is a huge part of my game plan if things go bad.
RiffRaff028@reddit
Consolidate space. The smaller the space you have to heat, the better you will be able to do it. We have generators and a fireplace, but I still have a backup plan that involves tents and insulating material as a last resort. If you have a basement, seal it off completely from the upstairs (cold air always sinks to the lowest point) and make that your cold shelter. A properly insulated basement will remain in the 50s regardless of outdoor temps, making it easier to stay warm. If you don't have a basement, can you install an underground storm shelter in your yard? It wouldn't be quite as effective as the basement, but it would still give you a lot of natural insulation.
tehdamonkey@reddit
So in the pioneer days they used to move and centralize to one room of the house. Everyone lives and sleeps in the living room and keeps the heat in there. You burned a fire outside and brought hot coals in the house in the coal bucket and used it for ambient heat.
Grigor50@reddit
How long? Three days?
The-Mond@reddit
USB rechargeable hand warmers. They obviously won't heat a room, but if added to all the other suggestions here, its just one more option to provide some warmth. They can be bought for as little as $8 - $10 for a set.
JanieLFB@reddit
Our daughters didn’t share a bed, but when we went camping they zipped together their sleeping bags.
I have never tried it, but a friend put big importance on having “pup tents” for her kids for camping. The smaller area becomes warm and the children stay warmer.
A pup tent on top of your bed would be a doable thing. It would almost be like those enclosed beds from the middle ages!
Now I will read what everyone else advises. Good luck. Prepping doesn’t have to be expensive.
inknglitter@reddit
Look into woobies (military poncho liners) for blanket or cape use
bengineer423@reddit
Look into a ventless propane or natural gas fireplace. They are ofent just a bookcase size cabinet that fits well against a wall or in a corner. We switched our wood fireplace to propane and haven't looked back. Granted we have a wood stove in another room (48x40 w/ 16ft ceilings) that it heats alone up 60+ degrees warmer than outside temps without any help.
UncomfortableBike975@reddit
I purchased a kerosene heater. It works like a giant kerosene lamp.
Optimal-Archer3973@reddit
I have a coleman propane heater that has battery powered fans with a connection to a 100 lb tank. This tank will run it for at least 2 weeks. It is also safe to use inside a normal house without a tight envelop. You would need an air exchanger or cracked open door for a tight envelop house or to setup a ducting to heat the house but have the heater outside. This is actually my backup for my pit hothouse/greenhouse.
In my case I have an outside wood boiler as well as two inside wood stoves to deal with this and the wood stoves can heat my whole house with no power. If I use limited power { solar and battery backup with genset as needed.} then I can use my boiler.
If your case you might want to look at a solar setup with battery as well. IT is surprising but most gensets of a decent size will charge your batteries while running the heater blowers and allow a very much reduced fuel requirement if you plan on a 24 hour battery reserve.
Please keep in mind that your basement if you have one will be the warmest place in the house as well if heated. The mass of concrete will retain heat for quite a while. If you place straw bales around the exterior of the house even longer.
TacTurtle@reddit
Kerosene oil / diesel fired Toyo stove.
They are a direct fire heater designed for heating cabins or small houses.
dewy65@reddit
I have one of those 12v vevor heaters, cheap and throws a ton of heat, DO NOT leave fuel in it for extended periods of more than a couple months, it just leaks down into the heating element and you will have to clean and drain it to get it working again, leave them dry until you need them for the price point they come at
IGnuGnat@reddit
My house is heated by a natural gas boiler, it uses the grid to power the electrical ignition and the thermostat. I built a solar generator mounted to a dolly with 2 marine batteries, the natural gas provider should be able to keep providing gas for days in an outage by running their generators, so I would just wheel the solar generator into the basement at night to keep the boiler running, at day I would have it up on the deck to recharge. at least we wouldnt' freeze
at my cottage I have a whole home propane generator thats configured to kick on automatically, with electric heat. Also has a wood stove
I have a cheap Chinesium diesel car heater for the van, I'm going to rebuild it with better parts as time allows and mount it in abox on the rear door, making it easy to remove. So I can also use it to heat the garage at the cottage which I use as a workshop. Once I have that up and running I'm thinking to make a modification so I can combine the solar generator with the diesel heater, it should work well enough to heat the living room in the cottage, and the office at my main home (my office has a bed in it lol) so when I finally get around to completing it I'll have lots of options for heat where ever I am
We lost heat in the middle of January once for days; we had a 90 gallon aquarium in the kitchen. I arranged a bunch of cookie trays around the base and lit up a bunch of alcohol burners, using the thermometer in the tank to gauge how many i needed to light. The fishtank acted like a gigantic radiator, the fish survived and the kitchen was toasty warm
dewy65@reddit
Incredible it took me this far down to find mention of the 12V diesel heaters, they are very efficient and use little power once they get going. Throw shit tons of heat too, and not humid like the propane heaters
Acceptable_Net_9545@reddit
Natural is one of the last utilities to loose...typically....I have a "hot plate" of two burner device...there are 2 burner table top units on Amazon and larger 1 burners ones...not the best idea cause you are running inside,,,,however I have done this for decades to heage the gas furnace inefficiency and never had a problem with Carbon Monoxide....and I run this in the basement so it heats the floor assembly....most days it heats the house at 32 ish degrees....
sgtPresto@reddit
Little Buddy will be a good choice. Propane keeps indefinitely. I had a propane supplier tell me the 30 pounder is the best portable tank. I have one I added to my 20 founders a nd 60 pounders
456name789@reddit
Another thing you can do now is heavily insulate your plumbing. Learn how to drain it and shut it off if water is compromised. I insulate the meter at the curb with straw before a big temp drop. In MI you have better protected plumbing than southern states to begin with, but extra is easier than a frozen pipe mess.
rm3rd@reddit
huh. straw...thanx
funkmon@reddit
Hey I am also in Michigan and I have lots of peeps for this in a long term scenario.
The following is the biggest and easiest, and then it goes in order.
If you have gas, just use your furnace. But DON'T use the generator to power it! There are more efficient ways. Get a 2000 wh power station (keep an eye out near Thanksgiving). That's about $800 and it will run the furnace for 24 hours via the same method you use to plug into your generator.
Now, use your generator to charge the power station! It will charge in 1.5 hours. So now, instead of using propane for 24 hours, you are using it for 90 minutes. Extend those reserves.
No gas?
Assuming your generator runs on propane and you have been buying tanks for a dollar at garage sales and swapping them out, you have extended useful reserves. The buddy heaters will keep about 600 square feet habitable and will run for about 40 hours per 20 pound tank. This is not the cheapest to do but it will work.
Enter kerosene.
Get a 23000 BTU kerosene heater. For some reason people on this forum don't talk about them but they're extremely reliable, have no moving parts, are indoor safe, and have been used for over a hundred years in virtually the same way, plus are common in other countries. Lowe's has them for $150 all day. Kerosene costs $4-$5 a gallon at Speedway, and, like propane, never goes bad. That 23000 BTU unit heats the whole house. 8 hours per gallon. You can get a 10000 BTU smaller unit that runs for about 20 hours per gallon. This is extremely cost effective.
Beyond these where you have to stockpile fuel, when you get that power station, buy a lot of solar panels for it. That will extend your runtime, but not guaranteed.
In an emergency, btw, your car is a generator and it holds many gallons of gasoline.
You can put alligator clips on that battery and connect it right to your power station. I have tested this via two different methods, via DC and through a pure sine wave inverter. Probably best to not pull more than 500 watts this way. Your car will use between a quarter gallon and a half gallon of gas per hour to run this.
TheKiltedPondGuy@reddit
You can put up a tent in some room in the center of the house and use it as a sleeping area. Create a warmer microclimate. Every person is a 60W heater so insulating small areas of the home could also keep you from freezing. Having multiple warm layers too.
stabbingrabbit@reddit
Wood stoves and heaters
WithEyesWideOpen@reddit
Tent and sleeping bags in the middle of the living room.
Upset_Assumption9610@reddit
I get the feeling you're in a suburb, or even like a brownstone row or something similar. If that's the case, you're f'd if tshtf. Grid down, get the f out of there. Plan for heating as if you're on the road.
Ok_Surround3777@reddit
If you're looking at short term, maybe a few days, many of the comments already posted are great. If you want to prepare for longer scenarios, consider getting a bunch of military surplus wool blankets. Make canopies to go over the beds to help keep body heat in while you're sleeping, reading, playing board games etc. You'll have to stitch or seam tape them together, but you can suspend them above the beds so they form a complete box, covered at the top and extending down a few inches onto the floor. You'll be amazed at how warm they can get inside even when the rest of the room is below freezing. It works even better if you have enough to put them underneath the bed as well.
To get in and out, just raise one edge and climb under it. Trying to use an opening of overlapping panels will allow more heat to escape than you might think.
churnopol@reddit
Isn't r/woodstoving popular in Michigan? My wood stove is my most prized possession. There's federal credits going on for efficient wood burning stoves. I think up to $4000.
Terracotta pot heaters.
These are easy enough and kinda fun for every family member to make. I've stayed warm with two of these heaters on each my night stands and my iBook's charger under my blanket when I was poor.
Goose down sleeping bag and merino wool clothing will also keep you toasty and not sweaty.
uj7895@reddit
For a couple winters, I don’t think anything can provide more heat with less space and safety than a pellet stove. I don’t know what the shelf life of pellets is, but we keep two years worth and rotate through the supply. We have had 3 year old bags and there wasn’t a problem, we keep them in an unheated out building. Never had rodent damage. 6 pallets of pellets would do at least 2 very cold two winters, and the stove can easily be ran off a solar generator.
ChocolateOk7997@reddit
We have a large hybrid wood stove in the living room and a 30K propane wall heater in the kitchen. A 500 gallon propane tank powers the gas cooking stove, wall heater, and our 12 kilowatt Honda Tri-fuel generator for power outages. We have a 1kw solar array and a 500Lb lead solar battery for limited solar power.
Eredani@reddit
Robust solar generator and an electric blanket and/or heating pad. Just stay in bed if you can. Seriously.
SunLillyFairy@reddit
As you've read, there are lots of ways. Depending on your housing, having a wood-burning stove installed would be my first pick, because if you get the right kind you can cook on (or in) them too.
At the other end (no home modifications) have the kind of sleeping bags designed for negative temps and an indoor safe heater with fuel (and a CO detector). A valued and old camping hack is a water bottle, (filled with hot water from whatever cooking solution you're using), placed inside your bedding - you just have to make sure it won't leak or you're in big trouble. For low power electric solutions... you could go with rechargeable hand/foot warmers and low watt electric blankets. Tip- a small electric pad or blanket (crib sized) will generally use less electricity and likely meet your warming needs if paired with a decent sleeping bag or camping quilt/wool blankets. Go with a DC for even less pull on a charged battery system.
RelativelyRidiculous@reddit
I'm in Texas and survived Snowpocalypse without frozen water lines. I picked my house partly for the easy of running lines for natural gas.
It is pier and beam, and it already had natural gas for the water heater, oven, and central heating. I ran lines and purchased space heaters so that I can have heat in the kitchen and bathrooms if the power goes out.
I also found out the most common stove models with electric ignition have a setup that cuts off the gas if the electricity goes out, so there is no means to light it with a match. I replaced the stove to have one I can light.
I also insulated my water and drain lines, which isn't usually done here.
If adding gas outlets and space heaters is not an option I can tell you my neighbor used a propane tank with a heater on it. Look for double tank top propane heater to get an idea what I am talking about.
Be aware there can be issues using these without venting whereas my gas heaters are specifically ones that don't require a vent. You can purchase propane space heaters similar to my natural gas heaters instead and they are probably safer over all.
My neighbor only heated his kitchen and bathroom which in his small bungalow are laid out so he was able to use blankets to curtain them off together. He had a carbon monoxide detector in that area and it never went off. However, he didn't try to keep it really warm. He just kept it above freezing so his water lines didn't freeze up.
Since snowpocalypse he has added a wood stove to his living room. Given the small size of his bungalow, which was originally the mother-in-law house to my house, he can easily heat his entire house with it well enough.
Unlikely_Ad_9861@reddit
We use a diesel heater hooked up to 12 volt from the solar/battery set. Vented through a window insert made of 1" foam board, 4" diameter dryer pipe, and fiberglass insulation. Elevated on a stand made from an old aluminum ladder. When not grid-down, we have electric heat.
SetNo8186@reddit
Which is why we first got a wood stove 30 years ago. And it's come into good stead. Even tore out an fireplace insert as it was horribly inefficient and installed a wood stove in it's place. Got the same heat for half the wood burned and easier to maintain. It does help Im still healthy enough to cut my own and split it.
Derfel60@reddit
Fire. There are some cool designs for ‘fireplaces’ that purportedly provide a complete burn due to sciency things beyond my comprehension. A small willow coppice will be able to provide renewable firewood.
reincarnateme@reddit
Get a tent to set up in the living room
AWintergarten@reddit
Microclimate. Hang comforters on doors, tent mid room, heavy clothes (wool if possible).
Ok-Resolve-2258@reddit
We lived out in the country which would have 3-5 day power outages. Our house was 5,000 sq. ft. We used indoor kerosene heaters. They really heated up the house. We had two. One downstairs and one upstairs. Kept the place toasty.
almondreaper@reddit
Get electric blankets for each family member they use like 50w and keep you very warm even in freezing weather
FlashyImprovement5@reddit
First, get a battery powered dual CO & CO2 monitor. They can save your life if you use alternative fuels Always take one in the car if you car camp. I heard on the news that the majority of Texas ice storm deaths were from people trying to sleep in cars to stay warm in garages without ventilation. I have car camped in an ice storm Kentucky had and you must have a battery powered monitor. People die trying to stay warm in cars.
Everyone will say wood, but if it doesn't really get that cold that often, then getting a wood stove might be overkill. You also have to think how hard it would be to get wood and how expensive it would be to transport and get set up for storage.
One style of propane heater is a wall mounted radiant heater style. They are usually a permanent installation and there are some with legs you can hook-up and un-hook as needed. That is the main heater I now have and they work great. One large one in the main room or you can get several smaller ones to put around the house. They usually have to be installed by a professional and they (normally) take a large tank permanently ensconced outside. Mine can operate on a 100lb tank for about 15 days. A friend of mine has his hose to the 100lb tank ran through a window to his heater.
An alternative is smaller propane tanks that are widely available on BBQ grills that work on smaller units. While I have small propane camping stoves and camping heaters, an alternative might be a 2 in 1 orange heater/stove unit. They are mainly used by campers outside, but can be used inside if you crack a window a small bit and use a CO monitor in the same room. They work very well, are reliable and you can cook on them. Otherwise you could go with a 2 burner camp stove for cooking. They are safe as long as you properly ventilate and have a fully functional monitor. Your heat could come from a separate buddy heater. The newer ones don't need much ventilation. Personally, I found a used natural gas stove for sale and switched it over to propane for everyday use. It works great and I don't have to worry about that in winter.
They also have tank top heaters meant for the 20lb tanks. They run 3-5 days on the 20lb tank and are generally ok for emergency use. Some of the more expensive models come with an automatic low O2 shutoff but those are usually twice the cost of the baseline model. I use these in areas where I have a functioning CO monitor.
An even different style heater is a kerosene heater. I used one for almost 10 years. You get kerosene treatment in a small bottle to add to the kerosene and it helps take the smell out of the kerosene. Again, this must be used with proper ventilation and a monitor but they can put out phenomenal amounts of heat. It heated an open space living room plus the kitchen with a hallway to the bathroom. About 1200 square ft total. 5 gallons would last us 4 days running 24/7. And, the tall round ones you can do slow cooking on top using a Dutch oven. At that time we started using kerosene, our cost per 5 gallons was $17 and it was easily double that when we stopped.
They now have small 2 in 1 kerosene stoves on Amazon. The top is made to be used for cooking where the lower area provides general heat. They are $99 right now, just checked today. Basically the same overall design as the camping propane 2 in 1 heaters.
Wool blankets run about $50 on Amazon. Hunters used to camp with 3 wool blankets in the snow making them into bedrolls.
Long johns. They even have them fleece lined. They have some that are waffle weave silk that you can't even tell you are wearing them -- they are so comfortable.
Wool socks. I have met people missing toes because they tried sleeping in the cold and rolled out from under the blankets. Wool socks are real game changers and they can save your toes.
Wool mittens are better then wool gloves because all of the fingers can share heat and are more comfortable when you sleep. Silk liners are really nice but not needed
Wool hats are great, especially if they have ear covering. My ears always get cold when I'm sleeping in the cold. My ears can get so cold it will wake me up. I would rather wake up could than wake up not being able to feel my ears though so I try to sleep with my ears covered. My long hair will help protect the top of my head but it does nothing for my ears.
Reflectix makes a great pad to sit down on and lay down on. Those silver Dollar Tree windshield covers are basically Reflectix and can make an emergency insulated base to help you stay warm.
Sleeping bags can help you stay warm and keep you from rolling out into a cold room. You can out your wool blanket inside the sleeping bags or even just a small comforter inside. Sleeping bag liners come in polar fleece, cooling polyester, silk and many other materials rated for different comfort levels. I would personally stick with polar fleece, wool or waffle weave silk.
Comfortable-Angle660@reddit
Install a wood stove, it is the only viable options for very extreme length grid down situations.
HappyCamperDancer@reddit
I have a pellet stove (we buy a ton of pellets every fall) which needs a small amount of electricity to run the auger to feed the pellets and the fan to distribute the heat. We have a jackery to do that. If the sun isn't shining to charge the jackery via the solar panels we also have a regular camping generator that could be used to charge the jackery. That generator uses propane. We also have a supplemental Mr Heater Buddy propane heater if needed.
Since we camp a lot we also have a tent and warm sleeping bags plus long underwear and warm clothes (sweaters & heavy duty dungarees), hats, mittens (mittens are warmer than gloves) etc.
We should be OK.
Own-Lemon8708@reddit
Survival warm is actually pretty easy with an enclosed space. Only takes a few candles to keep a room above freezing. Add a few bodies and it'll be 55+ and pretty comfortable even when outside is sub freezing.
Femveratu@reddit
Check out military spec extreme cold weather or ECW type sleeping bags or commercial equivalents. Used properly w long underwear and hat etc good down to -25 F and inside a structure no wind. That’s my fail sale for humans, and to conserve precious heating fuel, but you may need or want actual heat like the Big Buddy heater or a Kerosene heater which I use as Kero keeps well and is much cheaper to run. Either way you’ll want one or more Carbon Monoxide detectors w battery backup and keep up w the batteries as cold weather can shorten battery lives etc. Good luck!
Wilson2424@reddit
Yep. US Army 3 piece cold weather bags are great. Slept in a hole in the snow, 20 below zero, and was good. Put 4 people in bags, in a tent, in a small bedroom, and you're good to go
Mala_Suerte1@reddit
Propane heat is your friend. Mr. Buddy or a knock if is well worth the money. If you can find it, buy the one w/ a built in fan.
I keep rubbing alcohol and empty tin cans for emergency heat. Put about 1/2" to 1" of alcohol in the can and light it. It puts out a good bit of heat for a while. Obviously have extinguishers around.
0 degree or better sleeping bags for the whole family, as well as thermal underwear, wool cap, gloves, cold weather jackets and wool blankets all will help.
Lopsided-Total-5560@reddit
Ditto on the little buddy heaters. We literally live at the end of the (power) line. We are the first to lose power and the last to get it on. It’s just become a common occurrence to lose power several times a winter for multiple days. I have two of the smaller ones and one of the bigger ones that can blow the air with D batteries. We just heat the common areas (kitchen and living room) and then move a heater to the bedroom at night. I usually only use one of the smaller heaters and they keep everything comfortable and the fuel use is very reasonable. I don’t even mess with the small tanks anymore. We keep 4 or 5 grill tanks filled and I’ve never worried about running out of fuel, even in extended outages. Note: we don’t keep the house tropical during these outages. Heavier blankets and 50-60 in the common areas.
After_Pressure_3520@reddit
Many have already shared general 'hunker down' advice - shut off parts of the house not in use, subdivide and insulate spaces in use, pile everybody together.
But general awareness of how to function in that space might also be good to spread among your group.
- Minimize trips into and out of the insulated shared space by prioritizing and combining trips.
- Don't go out for just one thing - time your exit and (if possible) your return to coincide with somebody else's, so you're not opening and closing the door all day. - Keep everybody well-fed, so they can stay healthy and active - doubly important if body heat is a substantial portion of your heating strategy.
- Don't over-consume alcohol, and don't hold your urine. If you gotta go, you gotta go. It's counterintuitive, because you're exposing your core to the environment every time you open your fly, but the alternative is lugging around a pint of fluid that your body has to work to maintain the temperature of.
- Others have mentioned, but it bears repeating: fire suppression is that much more important if you're using any kind of open flame burner.
You might be well served by killing the power for a couple days this winter, just to see which parts of your home naturally retain heat best, then working from there. Which rooms have a southern exposure? Which parts of the home have better insulation in the attic? Which parts of the home get unnaturally cold at night?
Lethalmouse1@reddit
If you have a few bucks? I'd get a propane fire place.
If you have a little less bucks, one of those utilitarian propane heater installs.
Less bucks, Mr. Heater Big Buddy.
Competitive-Face-615@reddit
I pretty much plan on using my natural gas generator to run the furnace. If there is no natural gas service, I would assume apocalyptic events. At that point it’s 350lbs of propane, firewood, and a ghetto rigged wood stove.
brandoldme@reddit
I shouldn't say this is the most cost-effective way. But you could make sure that everybody has a full three layer set of clothes. Base layer, warm flare, outer layer that's windproof. Including socks, good boots, hat, face protection, ear protection and so forth.
And they make sleeping bags that will keep people fairly toasty into the negative temperatures especially if you're an enclosed house. These things are made for camping in that weather. So if you're already blocking the wind with a house they're going to work even more effectively.
invisiblebody@reddit
A few thin layers of clothes will trap body heat better than one thick layer. So tank top + thin long sleeve t-shirt + sweatshirt or hoodie. Top it off with your coat or whichever item you wear if out in snow. Fleece and flannel are good for being warm. Fleece throw blankets will help too. Wool is another good warm material if you can tolerate it, some find it too itchy.
Hats, hats, hats, keep your head covered! Wear a hat and a hoodie with the hood up.
Layering clothes is helpful because you can strip one off if you do strenuous work so your own sweat doesn’t leave you too cold.
A final word: cardboard. Homeless people don’t use big boxes just to conceal themselves while they sleep. It isn’t the warmest thing and it won’t be toasty but it is better than freezing if you are in a life or death situation. You can use it to insulate the ground too.
bitx284@reddit
Obviously, coats, hats, gloves, but, moreover I stock and renew handwarmer (for hands, foot and back)
barascr@reddit
Easiest way possibly to keep everyone warm in a long term grid down and you don't have a way to heat the home, is to stay in a small room and insulate it even more by adding blankets to windows and doors to avoid drafts, have mattresses with thick blanket and huddling up together as close as possible, we humans generate a lot of heat, we can warm a place up fairly well if there's enough insulation or people with us.
You can also create clay pot heaters with alcohol burners or candles. Most importantly, having enough layers on you will definitely helps.
throwawaybsme@reddit
Clay pot heaters are a good idea for ambient heating, since it will help radiate from a larger surface. It is worth noting, the clay pots do not increase the amount of heat available from a candle. A candle only has so much wax to burn and it is that wax burning that is the heat.
Anonymo123@reddit
Agreed with reducing the space and setting up a microclimate and heat that. I've used a big 3-4 person tent indoors with light blankets on top and blankets and cushions inside...easy to keep warm.
SheistyPenguin@reddit
Passive options:
Active options:
007living@reddit
I would suggest only heating a small room. With a combination method of a diesel heater and a portable wood stove. Diesel for most of the time (you might need a solar generator) and a wood stove to dry everything out as needed and to use when maintenance is needed on the diesel. For the wood stove precut some metal sheets for a window to put the chimney through and have extra wood and fuel stored for your desired time frame. Btw- the heaters can run on other fuel if you know what you are doing.
I would suggest having extra fire extinguishers and fire blankets regardless of which way you go. When it comes to fire fighting gear when you think you have enough double it and you might have enough.
Freak_Engineer@reddit
Emergency propane heater. Just please do get both a smoke detector and a CO detector together with it.
If your Stove can run off your generator (test this beforehand, it might not work with how the generator treats the grounding wire), you can also just run it until the residual pressure in the line is too low, so having a propane heater as a backup is a good thing to have.
Maleficent_Mix_8739@reddit
I use a Vesta camping stove / heater as both an emergency prep and it’s my “go to” when I’m ice fishing. I live in Minnesota, about an hour south of the Canadian border. We have five of our own and sent everyone on our lists one for Christmas two years ago. I can’t recommend them highly enough.
Here’s a link to one on Amazon
https://a.co/d/hfL704J
Fusiliers3025@reddit
I’ve seen a quick and cheap method using a base of a few bricks, a candle, and an upside-down flowerpot. Might not be a long term solution but for a few days of heat pending something more permanent, the materials would stack pretty well in an out of the way shed corner!
Pic found that actually shows a baking sheet and a cooling rack too:
Fusiliers3025@reddit
Ryan_e3p@reddit
Wood stove. Doesn't require a fireplace for installation.,
Nufonewhodis4@reddit
I used whatever tax thing from Biden to put in a wood stove a few years ago. Love it!
dittybopper_05H@reddit
Move to southern Florida?
WhereDidAllTheSnowGo@reddit
If you have an old oil / gas boiler and radiators that can run on a car battery for days
If you have a gas fireplace that can run on D cell batteries for weeks
If you have a wood fireplace…