Why is there such a big difference in how personal space for children is viewed between Arab and American cultures?
Posted by lyly-r@reddit | AskAnAmerican | View on Reddit | 532 comments
In Arab culture it is common for families to have many children even if the house is small as children are considered a "blessing" in most cases all the children share the same room regardless of number age differences or gender. Sometimes, they even share a room with their parents or grandparents and its considered normal without much thought given to its impact on their lives. In American families many make sure each child has their own room or at least some personal space reflecting respect for the child’s privacy. Is this common in America? Has anyone experienced living in a crowded environment and then moving to a place with personal space? Which experience was better?
ConstitutionalGato@reddit
Do the moms (who are stuck with all those little kids in a confined space) consider it a blessing?
OK_The_Nomad@reddit
Most kids have their own rooms. However, if you had a family with like six kids, I'm pretty sure some of them would share. The average family here has two children.
bookshelfie@reddit
People share rooms because they the house doesn’t have space. I think kids are blessing. But I want my child to have more resources, that means less children.
introspectiveliar@reddit
I think it is tied to the underlying tenants of the U.S. Many of our earliest immigrants came here to break away from family and traditions, to break out and succeed on their own. Personal independence, privacy and a space of one’s own are critical to our culture. So as much as possible we raise our kids that way. It is hardwired in us at this point.
Capable_Capybara@reddit
Only affluent families can afford so much space. Lots of American kids share bedrooms with siblings.
Beneficial-Two8129@reddit
We also have religious communities that encourage large families.
The United States is huge, so we value space more. What was once farmland are now housing developments because people wanted houses with lawns or gardens and space for their children to play in. Housing developers will go around looking for farmers who are close to retirement and offer to buy their farms to turn into housing developments as long as they're within reasonable commuting distance to a major city.
PinchePendejo2@reddit
We have an individualistic culture where privacy and independence are highly valued, especially as children get older. This stems in part from our frontier culture, as we've cultivated a rugged "be yourself, do it yourself" mindset for hundreds of years.
It's not uncommon for younger children to share a room, especially if they're the same gender, but we believe that as they grow older, they should have more personal space, and the freedom to grow into their own personalities.
There's an economic dimension to this as well. Kids are expensive. So a lot of people argue that if you're unable to give all of your kids independence, you shouldn't have that many kids at all.
beepbeepboop74656@reddit
It’s also codified in our laws and rules about habitability of structures and what’s acceptable living conditions for children.
sweet_hedgehog_23@reddit
That is generally just for foster children. There aren't many or possibly any laws that forbid parents from having their children share spaces.
CeramicLicker@reddit
Although there are maximum occupancy rules in most fire codes for things like apartments, which I guess could cause you problems depending on how many people you’re trying to put in a small place.
Sunny_Hill_1@reddit
That's if you rent. If you own, nobody cares.
Beneficial-Two8129@reddit
Yes, but unless you inherit a house, owning requires buying, and buying requires a down payment and the ability to qualify for a mortgage.
SunGreen24@reddit
Yeah, I know plenty of kids who share bedrooms. There’s no law against it.
Organic_Direction_88@reddit
In rentals there are definitely occupancy rules prohibiting more than 2 people per room!
Little-Salt-1705@reddit
Seems hectic that two parents can’t have their newborn in the room with them, almost made up.
SunGreen24@reddit
Not everywhere.
ImLittleNana@reddit
If CPS gets involved in your child’s life, they require you to have a separate bedroom. I don’t know if that varies from state to state, but where I live a parent and child cannot share a room.
ninjette847@reddit
Where I live depending on age, I think it's 14, they need their own bed but not room.
ImLittleNana@reddit
We had a mixup when my grandchild was born and went through an initial evaluation.
I was surprised to learn they required a separate room for a newborn. Especially since so many people keep baby in their room (in their own crib) for the first few months and she was premature. Nope. Not allowed.
We had to remodel to turn the dining room into a bedroom with a door. It was just building a wall and a doorway, but we had to get it done quickly. By the time the error was admitted it was done. We’ve got an enclosed play room for when they visit now, but that was wild ride.
SunGreen24@reddit
Who required that? I never heard of an evaluation for newborns, unless the infant was adopted.
badtowergirl@reddit
The grandparents needed to take temporary custody.
ImLittleNana@reddit
I was the grandparent. My child and grandchild were going to live with me.
Like a said it was the result of a test mixup and it took weeks to straighten it out. Custody was never at issue, even if it had been her test results.
However, we had a list of things that had to pass inspection. One was a dedicated nursery, even though it was blatantly obvious nobody was going to shove newborn preemie into their own room with a closed door.
ninjette847@reddit
Is it possible your daughter lied to you? They always retest multiple times even if everything is fine.
ImLittleNana@reddit
No I answered the door when they showed up unexpectedly at the house. It was complicated to navigate and she was dealing with an ill baby, so she allowed me to deal with a lot.
I was surprised at so much. We were lucky that we had a home and the money to make accommodations. What if she and I shared an apartment and had no resources to pull a 3rd room out of nowhere? I asked that and was told ‘you do, so I don’t see what the issue is’.
ninjette847@reddit
I wonder if they had to apply as foster parents, foster kids need a room but I've never heard of that for newborn premies. There was a reason there was an evaluation that caused an investigation.
ninjette847@reddit
How long ago was this? It's not even recommended even if you have a nursery until the baby is at least 6 months.
ImLittleNana@reddit
Ten years. It was just one of the bizarre things that happened. It really was like a fever dream.
Jscapistm@reddit
Yeah that's wild, it's not doctor recommended I'll tell you that, no co-sleeping obviously but having the crib in the room especially if the baby was premature but allowed to go home is good practice til at least 6 months.
Jscapistm@reddit
Over a certain age, obviously infants can sleep in a crib in their parents' room.
ImLittleNana@reddit
Ten years ago in my state they required you to have a separate bedroom. They didn’t ban sleeping in a cribs in the room, but a house visit to document a separate bedroom was mandated.
Organic_Direction_88@reddit
Not accurate- rentals in many areas have a 2 person per bedroom rule and children count towards that
sweet_hedgehog_23@reddit
That may be a rental tule, but it would not apply to owned homes. The rule then isn't specifically about children sharing rooms. Parents that own could have ten kids in a 3-bedroom home and there not be any legal issue.
Organic_Direction_88@reddit
For sure, the Duggars certainly crammed their kids into whatever Arkansas hellhole they were living in
Classic_Breadfruit18@reddit
Not true. There may be landlord imposed limits, but you are always allowed to have all of your own minor children living in your own home regardless of how many there are.
I know someone with 6 kids in a tiny 3 bedroom condo. They have 4 older girls in what would normally be the master, 2 up on lofts and 2 below. 2 infant and toddlers in the smallest room. The parents have the other small bedroom and share the bathroom with the toddlers.
Derwin0@reddit
There are no laws that require children to have their own rooms.
beepbeepboop74656@reddit
There are rules about who can share a room according to cps, under those rules boys and girls cannot share a room after 5, and in some places children as adults cannot share a room.There’s also square footage requirements. It’s also recommendations from cps that children above 10 have their own room. The ideas of independent rooms is very much part of the building code and habitability rules of a city, it’s often written literally in a lease about who is legally allowed to live in the space usually no more than 2 persons to a bedroom.
Derwin0@reddit
Only for those in foster care, which is not the subject.
Acceptable_Tea3608@reddit
How many times have you said that already?
Derwin0@reddit
Quite a few because the children of reddit have some weird idea that they are legally entitled to their own room.
lexilex25@reddit
I see this all over Tik Tok. It’s so bizarre. People are sure that in their area, it’s a law that a boy and girl cannot share a room.
Acceptable_Tea3608@reddit
Wellnuts Better that boys and girls don't share a room, esp after age 7 or 8.
o93mink@reddit
Please provide a link to one such rule in any state (again, not for foster kids, which is a separate issue not being discussed here).
MdmeLibrarian@reddit
Not a law, but my mortgage company wouldn't approve a mortgage on a house unless there were enough bedrooms for existing children of opposite genders to not share. Sisters could share, brothers could share, sisters and brothers could not share. If you did not have minors in the household, this caveat did not apply.
HabitNegative3137@reddit
What mortgage lender is asking about your children? That’s bizarre and absolutely not standard procedure for a mortgage application
MdmeLibrarian@reddit
These restrictions are usually in place with specific grants and mortgage programs that help specific demographics, and they're allowed to ask lots of questions and have lots of specific qualifiers before they'll approve your application. You aren't required to go with a specific bank or program, of course, but if you do then you need to abide by whatever rules or guidelines they have set out ahead of time.
Interestingly, I remember that we also were looking at a rural-homebuyer program that was aimed at getting people to settle in smaller towns away from the most desirable cities, and it was a sweet deal with a good rate but their inspection requirements were REALLY STRICT about things that other programs didn't care about, like the condition of the paint on clapboard siding, and vegetation within 12" of the foundation and siding. We backed out of one house because they wouldn't approve a loan on it without replacing the ancient drafty windows, which would have cost about $18,000, because drafty windows would cause moisture issues in the house and compromise their collateral asset to their loan. This was in the early 2010s, for context.
HabitNegative3137@reddit
Yet another way banks can discriminate against the most vulnerable potential home buyers and create barriers to ownership. That’s so lame.
badtux99@reddit
In California it isn't even legal for mortgage companies to ask about family composition, unless it is a 55+ community, in which case they merely validate the age of the mortgage applications and ask you to sign off that you do not have anyone under age 55 who will be living with you. That's so that they don't have to deal with fines for violating the 55+ covenant impacting their ability to repossess the home if you default on the mortgage.
Sunny_Hill_1@reddit
Wow, my mortgage company didn't even ask about who's going to be living in the place besides how many people will be on the deed.
Derwin0@reddit
A mortgage company does not care about that.
The only thing they are concerned with is valuation, credit, and debt to income ratio.
Honeybee3674@reddit
I have never had a mortgage company request information about minor children in the home. We give them the financial information about the lender on the mortgage, and that's it. I was temporarily unemployed when we bought our current home, so I am on the deed, but not the mortgage. So, they didn't even look at my credit history, just my husband's. All they care about is that you will be able to make your payments. Who lives there afterwards is not their concern.
Derwin0@reddit
A mortgage company does not care.
All they care about is valuation and debt to income ratio.
SuspiciousZombie788@reddit
Many states have laws over foster kids having their own space or at the very least, foster kids not being able to share rooms with kids of the opposite gender. But you are correct that there are not laws (that I am aware of anyway) over these things for biological children.
Cloverose2@reddit
The law for foster children exist because they're in state's custody, not the custody of the people who are parenting them. Some sort of standard for living had to be established. If the children are in your custody, there are no such laws - it doesn't matter if they're biological, adopted, step or unrelated, in your care but not in state custody.
SuspiciousZombie788@reddit
Isn't that what I said?
Cloverose2@reddit
You said biological - that isn't the standard. It's state custody or not, unrelated to whether they have genetic ties.
SuspiciousZombie788@reddit
I meant biological to the parents. But I can see how my word choice wasn't the most clear. :-)
Wonderful-Comment314@reddit
For bio kids no, but for foster kids there may be depending on location.
Carinyosa99@reddit
There are laws to how many people can sleep in a room. It's based on the square footage. In Maryland, the law is that there need to be 50 square feet per person per room. So a 10x10 bedroom is 100 square feet and that would allow two people to legally sleep in that room, but not three. If that room is 10x12, that's larger at 120 square feet, but still you can't have three individuals until it's 150 square feet.
This has nothing to do with the age or the relation of the individuals.
gusto_g73@reddit
So what do they do if you're at the max and you have another kid?
Carinyosa99@reddit
I mean, I don't think they're going to check. I know people who live on my street who definitely don't abide by these rules.
unitconversion@reddit
Sorry, Timmy. You had a good run, but the state says we have to put you down.
Danibear285@reddit
My takeaway from that book The Giver
HappyCamper2121@reddit
It's going to be medical research for the lot of you
Sunny_Hill_1@reddit
If you rent, you have to find a bigger place.
If you own, nothing, these laws aren't enforceable for owners.
MechanicalGodzilla@reddit
Nothing, there's no code triggering event. If you want to pull a permit to upgrade/expand something and the inspector has to stop by to close it out, you'd be in trouble. But it's more of a backwards-enforced code - if something were to happen you'd have additional libility for being in violation of building code.
Maryland actually does have some laws about existing building energy performance that you must report or face fines, but that's a fairly rare law - especially for state-wide enforcement.
justonemom14@reddit
I'm guessing you could make your biological kid share a room, while the foster kid gets their own.
lemonprincess23@reddit
Okay a lot of people are shitposting but for real most officials probably won’t care unless you live in a really tiny home, and the ones that do will likely give you chances to move to a bigger more suitable place. Ironically it’s probably not CPS that’s going to be doing this, it’s more likely the fire marshals who are annoyed at you breaking the fire code
WorkerAmbitious2072@reddit
The government says you fucked up and that the govt will make a better parent
What could go wrong
mikkowus@reddit
CPS.
Raibean@reddit
CPS
dkesh@reddit
In Texas, you absolutely need a private bedroom in order to take in a foster child. Totally separate from building code occupancy limits.
Carinyosa99@reddit
But OP was talking about people in general and not making reference to foster children. Foster care is a whole other set of rules.
round_a_squared@reddit
Some places may also specify that children of different genders cannot share a bedroom, and children above a specific age can't share a bedroom with an adult. So if a family had two sons they could rent a two bedroom apartment, but a family with a son and a daughter would have to rent a three bedroom.
Sweet_Future@reddit
For foster kids, not bio
biggreasyrhinos@reddit
CPS stipulates that for bio kids in at least some states
ShinyAppleScoop@reddit
California tenant laws say the max occupancy is two per bedroom, plus one. So five people can occupy a two bedroom apartment.
badtux99@reddit
I can tell you that this law is regularly ignored. Slum lords don't care about California tenant laws, and low income families often cram four children or more into a bedroom, with kids sharing beds. Sure, the corporate apartments enforce the law, but the corporate apartments charge so much rent that the people who have more children than beds can't afford them anyhow.
Sunny_Hill_1@reddit
That's for rentals, not owners.
Rentals have a stricter occupancy limit.
jvc1011@reddit
This is absolutely true in Maryland. California has no such restrictions if the person living in the space is a child.
Acceptable_Tea3608@reddit
As if people pay attention when they have a 3rd child.
Derwin0@reddit
That is for rentals.
theshortlady@reddit
And it may be taken into consideration in custody decisions and adoption.
Emkems@reddit
I think it’s mostly applicable to rentals, but I might be wrong.
dixpourcentmerci@reddit
When we had our fostadopt interview in California, we were told same gender kids could share a room but different gender kids needed different rooms by a certain age— I think age 8.
Derwin0@reddit
Correct, it only applies to rentals.
According-Couple2744@reddit
Growing up, I always had my own room. bedrooms. Each of my 3 children had their own bedrooms. We were blessed to be able to afford a house that would allow us give each child their own space. My 3 children and very close and get along well. I don’t think cramming them all into a single bedroom would have made them any closer.
SueNYC1966@reddit
Not true, in Virginia there are. My sister-in-law was a pediatric ICU doctor there. She was supposed because her and my husband shared a room until their parents could afford a house in NYC (they were 9 and 11).
Curmudgy@reddit
I assume that’s an autocorrect error but I can’t figure out the correct word.
Derwin0@reddit
I agree, but we are not talking about foster children.
And even foster care rules make exceptions for biological siblings.
DerthOFdata@reddit
But there are laws codifying maxim residents per bedroom. You cant just shove 20 minor into the same bedroom just because they are children.
Derwin0@reddit
Where at?
Please enlighten us to any such law that doesn’t apply to foster children or a rental.
DerthOFdata@reddit
Read what I wrote again. I said that most places have laws with a maximum number of how many people per square foot. Meaning you can't cram unlimited kids into one room. No where did I even imply there are laws stating children must have their own rooms.
HappyCamper2121@reddit
A lot of cities and municipalities limit it to two kids per room
badtux99@reddit
And unless there is a complaint made, that limit is regularly ignored in low income areas of the city. Neither the slum lords nor the tenants care what the city's limit is. They just don't want their kids sleeping outdoors in the rain and snow.
Derwin0@reddit
Even if that didn’t apply to only rentals, 2 kids in a room is completely different than a child having their own room.
HappyCamper2121@reddit
Right, it's twice as many people per room, but still puts families in an unfortunate position if they have a lot of kids.
FMLwtfDoID@reddit
There are occupancy laws in every state, although no federal regulation.
badtux99@reddit
And these laws are regularly ignored. I know of many families with four, five, six children living in a two bedroom apartment in the slum lord part of the city. You do the math. The landlord doesn't care as long as he gets his $200/week. The tenant certainly isn't going to report himself to the city. And CPS doesn't get involved unless the kids show sign of abuse at school. So.
Derwin0@reddit
Wanna bet?
Feel free to find a single law that requires a child to have their own room. Foster care rules do not apply.
MuffinPuff@reddit
I don't think they're saying each child needs their own room, they're saying there's a limit to how many people can occupy those rooms. OP mentioned families having a lot of children and even guardians living in one room, and that may be an issue in the US depending on the state.
Derwin0@reddit
Occupancy limits typically only apply to rental units.
mikkowus@reddit
But other laws kick in if people think you're not taking care of your kid and CPS will show up
Derwin0@reddit
A child not having their own room is not a reason for CPS to get involved.
mikkowus@reddit
No, 5 in a 10x10 room
thepinkyoohoo@reddit
Correct but you aren’t going to find a lot of studio homes that people own?
FMLwtfDoID@reddit
It seems like you think I said “there are several state laws saying 1 child per room” when, what I actually said was “There are occupancy laws in every state, although no federal regulation.”
Hope this helps.
Derwin0@reddit
I said that there isn’t a single State in the Union that requires children to have their own room.
mikkowus@reddit
There absolutely is. There is a limit on how many people you can sleep in a room.
Derwin0@reddit
Then feel free to point out a single one.
mikkowus@reddit
Fire codes
communityneedle@reddit
No, but 7 kids living in one room would get CPS on you.
Derwin0@reddit
Which has nothing to do with children being entitled to their own room.
FMLwtfDoID@reddit
No one has said that, and yet you keep repeating it. Where has ANY COMMENT said “there’s a legal requirement for legal, biological, and foster children to all get their own private room”. Again, no one has said that. You’re reading things that are not there.
Aggressive-Farm9897@reddit
Maybe not laws, but I’d be shocked if there aren’t policy rules around it for CPS.
Derwin0@reddit
They aren’t.
No State prohibits siblings from sharing a room via law or regulation.
Aggressive-Farm9897@reddit
From a quick search on Google I found a policy on the government of North Carolina’s website that suggests otherwise.
So unless you’ve got research to back yourself up, I’m not going to be convinced you’re correct.
http://reports.oah.state.nc.us/ncac/title%2010a%20-%20health%20and%20human%20services/chapter%2070%20-%20children's%20services/subchapter%20e/10a%20ncac%2070e%20.1111.pdf
Cryptographer_Alone@reddit
No, but there are laws around how many people can be in a unit/structure, and how many people per bedroom. These vary by state, and occasionally by municipality. Most of these laws originated as fire safety codes to ensure that the maximum amount of people can exit the building safely in an emergency.
DHS/CPS typically have standards on how many children can be in a room for their foster families, and this is actually where it's most strict legally in the US. They often also have standards for gender segregation. And this is tied to allowing already traumatized kids space to heal without having three other traumatized kids have breakdowns around them with no place to get away.
For the average American family, space is a factor of culture and economics more than law.
Derwin0@reddit
We are not talking about kids in foster care.
SueNYC1966@reddit
Absolutely not true. My sister-in-law, an ICU pediatrician, found out in Virginia when CPS got involved after a certain age. From the child abuse cases she saw - she was far more concerned about a boyfriend sleeping under the same roof than a four year old brother and sister.
Snirbs@reddit
Yes. My SIL lost custody of my nephews. My BIL had a 1-bedroom apartment. The kids were placed in foster care by the state until he could afford a 2-bedroom. He was not allowed to have his own children until he could prove the occupancy requirement. Horrible situation.
Acceptable_Tea3608@reddit
Your BIL could've taken the living room and given the children the bedroom. Was done all the time in previous generations and accepted.
Snirbs@reddit
Obviously he offered that. What a moronic comment.
Acceptable_Tea3608@reddit
Hmmm... and I don't know what state that was. So your comment doesn't add anything except insult.
Cloverose2@reddit
If the children were not in foster care, he could have. Since they were in state care, the state has a responsibility to make sure they're going into a decent living situation, and that means that there need to be enough bedrooms and beds for everyone.
re_nonsequiturs@reddit
The real question is why were they considered in foster care when they were living with a parent?
Cloverose2@reddit
If they don't have full trust that the brother-in-law is a trustworthy parent, he may have them in his care but not his custody. There may well be a reason he didn't appear to have any custody of them before the sister-in-law lost custody. I don't know, it's not my case. I have had parents whose children were with them but still foster kids because the state was saying "your case is open, we're keeping a very close eye on you, but we don't trust you to do what needs to be done. It's in the interest of the kids to be with a parent, but we want to be able to yank them super fast if we need to."
It sounds like they were in mom's custody, she lost them to the state, and now dad wants to get custody.
If the children are in foster care, then the non-custodial parent needs to bring their living situation up to a certain standard before they can be granted custody. Since the kids are in foster care, the state has to make sure they're releasing them into a good living situation, which is why they have to reach foster parent standards. A custody transfer without the foster care step would not necessarily require that, but if the law gets involved, the judge can demand it.
re_nonsequiturs@reddit
Ah, that makes sense.
liketheweathr@reddit
Presumably he was not married to their mother.
liketheweathr@reddit
The State declares otherwise.
re_nonsequiturs@reddit
There is no law about children in a family having their own rooms in the US. Any law or rule you've seen about that is about foster care.
TheAvidAquarian@reddit
Yes, the point about acceptable living conditions is spot on! It is absolutely true that we dictate what conditions children can live in and snatch children away from environments considered unlivable even if that would not be considered an unlivable place somewhere else. If you are too poor and where you live has the conditions of poverty, you are at a much higher risk of being considered a negligent parent legally.
RaeaSunshine@reddit
Agreed, and it’s also a difference in POV. Having a large number of kids just because they are wanted and viewed as a blessing is coming solely from the parents POV. I think in certain areas of the US it’s more common to also take into account the child’s POV - is the family in a situation and environment that can allow a child to truly thrive rather than survive? Not saying single bedrooms are necessary for that for any means, but I do think it’s a slight difference in perspective. For example it’s also becoming increasingly common in my area for people to opt not to have children not because they don’t want them, but because they don’t feel they can afford it to the extent necessary to provide a positive and stable environment.
Classic_Breadfruit18@reddit
That's interesting because I live in Hawai'i and most families here live in under 1000 sft. This will have probably 3 tiny bedrooms and 1 bathroom and often the parents, 3-4 kids, an aging parent or even an unmarried auntie will all be living in this house. I do not know any kids who have their own room and they usually don't have their own stuff either.
Nevertheless I would say the kids are happier and more thriving here than anywhere I ever lived on the mainland. It turns out that having your family around and supporting you provides far more of a positive and stable environment than any nice house or stuff ever could.
nashamagirl99@reddit
It’s also a different perspective on what is needed to have a good life. I don’t think most Arab parents living with family would’ve rather never been born, or consider their setup to be some awful fate. It’s a culturally normal and accepted part of life for a lot of people. In the US the standard of living is higher because the country is rich, and there is also more value placed on independence and more awareness about issues like child sexual abuse. All of this means that taking the child’s point of view into account can result in completely different conclusions depending on cultural background
shelwood46@reddit
We also tend to give women/mothers more independence in America, so they can choose to spend 10 years pregnant and all their adult years at home, but they can also only have 0-2 kids and a career.
craftasaurus@reddit
It’s funny that on the frontier, people usually only had one or 2 rooms, and everyone slept in the same room. As you had more resources, you’d add on. Then the parents might have their own room, and the kids in one. Later still you might have a boys bedroom and girls bedroom. One of my relatives had that, but all the mattresses were on the floor and the kids slept willy nilly. My dad slept on the porch on a sofa bed during his teenage years, while his sister got the room (1930s). For teenagers, it was considered that privacy was important.
oceansapart333@reddit
I’ve toured a few preserved frontier houses. I can think of at least two where they specifically stated that as they got older the kids would move out to sleep in the barn loft.
craftasaurus@reddit
Maybe the boys, not the girls.
Fappy_as_a_Clam@reddit
I don't understand why this got down voted lol
Even back then I'd have a very hard time believing they just let their teenage daughter go live in a barn loft. The potential for unpleasant shenanigans is just too high.
craftasaurus@reddit
Yeah, no. Nobody did that. Not in the usa anyway. Boys were expected to suck it up and sleep wherever, but girls? Nah, they had to be protected.
Substantial-Ad-8575@reddit
My wife family has a large farm house, 8 bedrooms. Was built in 1880s. Expanded once at least. Before that, from 1840s, they actually had a smaller home 3-4 bedrooms and a set of bunkhouses. One for kids and other for ranch hands.
craftasaurus@reddit
That’s interesting. It reminds me of a friend of mine. Her dad turned the garage into a bunkhouse of sorts. The city code didn’t allow it so he put a pool table in there and called it a rec room. The actual house was a small two bedroom bungalow. The daughter had one bedroom, and the parents had the other bedroom. All the boys slept in the rec room/ garage. It wasn’t very comfortable in the winter, but boys were expected to be adaptable to harsher living situations than girls were. I’m almost certain that the bunkhouses were for the boys, and that the girls were kept in the house.
Pinglenook@reddit
My mom (the Netherlands, 1950s-1960s) shared a bed with three sisters! Two girls on one side and two girls on the other, feet by heads (except they're all relatively short, so it's not like their feet would actually be all the way across the bed)
craftasaurus@reddit
That’s a lot of girls in one bed! My sister and I slept in the same bed, as we were the youngest.
PinchePendejo2@reddit
Yup. But they also moved around a lot, and once you had your own place (or married into one), you "made it."
TooManyDraculas@reddit
Except personal privacy, solo rooms for kids etc is largely something that develops in the 20th century. In pace with expanding home sizes, the growing middle class, and overall increasing affluence.
On that "frontier" whole families shared single room homes, and even share beds. And that was something that was very common throughout the US until the interwar period. And didn't become truly uncommon until after WWII with the expansion of the suburbs and personal home ownership.
Keyboard_warrior_4U@reddit
Yep. There are a couple of interesting books about the development of personal space in European architecture. Ine is called "The World We Have Lost." Basically, it started developing in the middle ages and established itself in the 1800s. It's interesting that if you read about that era even Kings slept or went to the bathroom surrounded by people
PinchePendejo2@reddit
Yes, but there was a cultural expectation that you would go out and carve your own space — make your own way — as quickly as possible. Adult children (especially men) only returned home permanently if they or their parents were ill or had truly fallen on hard times. You see primary source evidence of this sort of arrangement all over the place.
Keyboard_warrior_4U@reddit
It has a lot more to do with consumerism than with frontier culture. Every country in America was settled slowly and had inner frontiers. Individualism / anti-socialism is more prevalent in highly developed countries while more stronger family ties and stronger social norms are more common in underdeveloped countries
ORLYORLYORLYORLY@reddit
I don't think the frontier culture is really part of it, considering individualism and children having privacy and independence is common across western Europe and the anglosphere.
gotbock@reddit
Any source on this? Because I'd say it has a lot more to do with classism and wanting to emulate upper class lifestyle, in which each family member has their own room because they can afford a large house.
PinchePendejo2@reddit
https://heinonline.org/HOL/LandingPage?handle=hein.journals/ajj34&div=9&id=&page=
https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2013-15893-005
https://www.jstor.org/stable/43468023?casa_token=Qll1Cjzbi7UAAAAA%3AIek1xuRuIZjNxPpTIduEcIy0MLBf3Vk5jJXWNJoRfDEy5c_oQWaCvSGsoGr7qmLDl97DYgCspjDv_re91o-2WqWJioDfcsNWNSVQNqg8FfVy-CLeT0U&seq=1
https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=TrriPKZ0kwUC&oi=fnd&pg=PR3&dq=info:xttTp6DeVyYJ:scholar.google.com/&ots=oZJw6bYtZG&sig=vte--7K5f6kjTVrLOl8omuBCmJw#v=onepage&q&f=false
Your class thesis isn't necessarily mutually exclusive with mine. Americans are constantly on the hunt for ways to express our independence, so when higher incomes open new doors, we take them.
ShakeWeightMyDick@reddit
Some of this also comes from the Northern European foundations of American culture
CaterpillarJungleGym@reddit
I completely disagree. Most people in the US are immigrants. Large families used to make sense when people had farms and stuff. It does not make any financial sense now to have more than 1 child. Similar to a lot of Asian countries.
PinchePendejo2@reddit
They did, but even then, there was a cultural expectation that you would eventually go out and make your own homestead, or move to the city for work. You see primary source evidence of this all over the place.
YogurtclosetFair5742@reddit
Your first sentence really isn't true for many American children when they have helicopter parents.
poison_camellia@reddit
Even the concept of helicopter parents is a result of an independence-focused culture though. My husband's Korean and here in the US, he's considered somewhat of a helicopter parent. In Korea, his parenting would be extremely normal. Helicopter parenting is placing a negative judgement on it precisely because we value independence here in the US so much.
sitonyouropinion@reddit
When did the term Helicopter parents come into existence? In the 70s but it didn't get popular until the 2000s.
Engineer_Teach_4_All@reddit
In many cases, the typical expectation for children in the US is to finish school then move out into their own house/apartment. It's typically seen in negative light for someone to move back in with their parents or otherwise live in a multigenerational household.
I believe this is more telling of the expectation of independence within the society than trends of modern parenting.
PinchePendejo2@reddit
The existence of helicopter parents does not, in itself, change hundreds of years of cultural inertia.
Puddin370@reddit
In cases where a parent is getting government assistance for housing, they are required to have a separate bedroom for children of the opposite sex.
Monte_Cristos_Count@reddit
That was extremely common in America until the last century or so. America has followed the trend that all countries follow - wealth and education of women are inversely proportional to the number of children you have on average
bankruptbusybee@reddit
Just tacking onto this because prosperity increases survival.
People would regularly have 6-10 kids because maybe 2-3 would survive, due to famine, infection, etc.
Take those away and most kids survive.
So there’s no need for the stress of 6-10 kids. If you gave me all the money in the world, I might have one more kid, I wouldn’t have 7 more.
latin220@reddit
Kids cost money and take so much time to tend to and I would never have more than 3 and possibly just 2. Why would anyone want 7? That’s too much for me and dropping $10-20k just to have a single child, costs for childcare, education and food/clothing it’s insane. Nah man not worth the hassle. 1 kid is good. 2 is sufficient and 3 that’s enough and on the high end of affordability. 7? I wouldn’t be able to survive or support them all.
ReservoirPussy@reddit
Kids weren't a choice then. After you got married, you'd have about a baby a year whether you wanted to or not. Some lived. Some didn't.
latin220@reddit
Yeah I know my grandma has 12 siblings. Back then you don’t name the child until the first year and/or when they’re christened. Then if you had that many you expected 3-4 to live.
Siya78@reddit
They used to do that in India too when my parents was growing up. Didn’t know that happened here too. Interesting
latin220@reddit
The USA got birth control by using my people as guinea pigs and then they sterilized a third of all women in Puerto Rico. 🇵🇷 The only way the USA controls people of color is by well ungodly and cruel experiments and restrictive policies.
FormalFriend2200@reddit
Yep. It costs about $230,000 to raise ONE kid from birth to age 18. Then there's college and/or a wedding...
Acceptable_Tea3608@reddit
My grandmother had 12 pregnancies. 5 of her children lived to adulthood.
SnooChipmunks2079@reddit
My grandfather (B 1912) had 12 siblings and step-siblings. They all made it to adulthood and almost all had college educations. I’d say all but I’m not sure about the youngest fraternal twins.
His dad was a fairly successful merchant. Grocery, bar, rental properties, quarry.
Derwin0@reddit
My granny had 9 kids, all of which lived past their 50’s.
Shadowfalx@reddit
It isnt always prosperity though. It is education.
In many places, more children live.to adulthood today than did in 1925, but in some places the number of children per woman has remained stable over that time.
The real way to reduce fertility rate is to increase women's access to education and opportunities to control their own life. Prosperity helps, but education is the core differentiator
FormalFriend2200@reddit
And birth control
Shadowfalx@reddit
Both control only works when women are given access to education and the ability to use that education.
If women aren't offered the chance to leave their house, they don't have the option to choose or enforce contraceptive use.
FormalFriend2200@reddit
What??!?
Shadowfalx@reddit
What part is confusing?
FormalFriend2200@reddit
I'm not confused
Shadowfalx@reddit
Then why are you saying "what?"
TooManyDraculas@reddit
People would have 6-10 kids because birth control didn't exist.
While child mortality rates were higher in the past they were never as high as 80%. And the idea that people were mathing this out and deliberately having more kids to offset deaths is somewhat of a myth.
FormalFriend2200@reddit
Yep. They were just f**king because it felt good for them.
GayFlan@reddit
Not entirely true. Before the advent of the pill and after industrialization birth rates were already steadily declining.
bankruptbusybee@reddit
Birth control existing does help
There are a lot of biological behaviors that we perform, even though we don’t “math” them out. There are different survivorship curves for different species. Humans, in a natural environment, are close to type II.
In early human history, About half of children died before puberty. There are still areas today where at least 50% of children die before puberty.
And while 50% and 80% are different, surviving past puberty didn’t guarantee surviving until they reproduced.
ActiveDinner3497@reddit
My dad is one of 14 pregnancies, 12 of which survived. They had a large family to run the farm, which was also very common back in the 1940s and 1950s.
FormalFriend2200@reddit
And there's a reason for that.
The5thVikingHorseman@reddit
Also as we left an agricultural cultural for he cities/suburbs you needed less children to work the farm as well. My great-grandfather was 1 of 15, my grandfather 1 of 7, my dad 1 of 4 (1 died in infancy), I'm 1 of 2, and I have 2. My dad is the first generation to leave the farm. Also as farming tech knowledge has increased they too have less kids. All my friends who are still farming have 1-3 kids.
SnooPets8873@reddit
My anthropology professor immediately pegged my mother and father’s difference in educational and economic background based on sibling count. Mom has one brother, my dad had like 8/9 siblings. Mom’s family were well off landowners and her father was an attorney. Dad’s father was a forest ranger, no higher education and modest economic background.
tattoolegs@reddit
That's interesting (mostly bc its never been pointed out like that). My dad has 3 siblings, all but one went on to college (one got a masters in science). My mom has like 7 siblings, 3 went into the military, and only 2 have higher education. My dad's dad was a wealthier landowner and businessman, graduated high school, and my moms dad was a factory worker, didn't finish middle school. Very interesting.
Merkilan@reddit
This is a newer concept actually. I am in my early 50s and it was common where I grew up that we shared rooms with our siblings. My sister and I shared a room until I turned 14. We turned part of the attic into a bedroom and office room for me to have when I started high school. I had an electric typewriter for school work at the desk in my little office space up there. I was the oldest so my siblings got to have their own space younger than me once I had that article bedroom.
My kids are in their late 20s and shared a room until 9th grade as well. They did have separate beds and separate master closet. It was one large closet with two doors, so I put a dresser inside between the doors and curtains above to give them each their own closest space.the one who got to use the drawers of the dresser had most of the dresser on their side, so smaller overall space but the extra storage. The other had most closet space but no drawers, only shelves if they wanted. I let my oldest choose which side she wanted first.
When they did get their own bedrooms once in high school they had a bathroom that connected to both rooms. Boy were they so much happier!
This belief that kids are being mistreated if they have to share a room is wild to me. I so often see that in American social media that it is abusive to make kids share rooms. What??
swanspank@reddit
I grew up sharing a bedroom with my 2 brothers and my sister shared hers with our grandmother. Because I didn’t know it but we were poor. My kids always had their own bedroom and so does my grandkids because we are better off than our previous generations. So I don’t know if it’s cultural or just a better standard of living.
We kinda adopted a kid that was a friend of my son in high school and he had been sharing a bedroom with his two sisters because his mom was a poor abusive drug addict and his dad was long gone. Actually never knew his dad. He calls us mom and dad now. So we converted the loft game room into his bedroom. His sisters moved out of state to other relatives.
Oh, my son has 5 kids between his previous marriage and his new wife’s previous marriage. They have a 6 bedroom house that’s just got a couple extra bedrooms instead of a home office/dining room and enclosed a loft for a bedroom. Again a better standard of living rather than cultural.
EmmaPersephone@reddit
69% of pregnancies are planned in the United States, I’m pretty sure Americans think of babies as a blessing, joy and miracle.
KikiCorwin@reddit
Shared a room sometimes with my little sister. It was awful. She talked in her sleep. I tossed and turned and had wake up screaming nightmares. Neither was thrilled about it.
bufallll@reddit
for what it’s worth the living arrangements you describe as being common in arab cultures were common in about every global culture up until fairly recently. this includes europe and the US. it’s a wealth thing…
According-Gazelle@reddit
What I dont get is seperate rooms for infants few months old. Numerous research has shown a child needs parents and their touch in the initial years. How are you okay with your few day old infant to literaly cry itself to sleep?
Analyst-Effective@reddit
It's common in America because people are entitled
nocturnalramblings@reddit
I'm in an area where I struggle to afford more than one bedroom for myself. I was sleeping in the living room and letting my child have the bedroom completely to herself, but she ended up laying with me on the couch come morning every single night. Eventually, I just moved another bed into the bedroom and that helped quite a bit, but we still have times where she wants to lay in my bed with me. Sometimes I move her and sometimes I don't, but 9/10 she wakes up the instant I shift off the bed. I figure she'll likely eventually grow out of it, so whatever is most comfortable to her.
Original-Common-7010@reddit
What american culture? Do you mean the lack of it?
BizarroMax@reddit
I have 5 kids. My boys share a room. I have an extra room but they still share. They like it. Most of the time.
Dr_Watson349@reddit
People share rooms when they have to, not because they want to.
ForestHills1978@reddit
I think that is true but I also think that there are other factors. In the parts of NYC where I grew up and lived, most families only had one bedroom apartments. It’s expensive, even in a less desirable neighborhood. I also kind of like the relationships in a family better when they share less space. I’m not sure what it is, maybe it’s closer in a way. It’s more important to consider everyone when you make any decision. As a child, you were able to observe more things adults did. I’ve never had that ‘no one taught me how…’ feeling. My mom balanced her checkbook at the table next to where we were watching tv, so we asked questions. No one explained menstrual products to me, they were always around. I have a bit more space now but this is plenty
vitarosally@reddit
I hear a lot of parents now complaining that their kids never come out of their room. Why should they? They have a computer, flat screen tv, DVD, video game player and a mini fridge. It's like an efficiency apartment. My nephew is like this. He hibernates in there.
FormalFriend2200@reddit
And they have a phone!
dandelionbrains@reddit
Yeah, I’ve experienced both and it’s nice to have family around if they are good people. If they aren’t, it‘s awful though.
creamcandy@reddit
My kids were happier sharing a room until they were around 6 or 7 years old
syrioforrealsies@reddit
My brothers shared a room through high school. When my parents mentioned splitting them up, they were furious
IanDOsmond@reddit
A friend of mine fosters and adopts a lot of kids. They have systems where, when one kid goes off to college, they have seniority rules about how the rooms shuffle around.
Two of the kids who were always sniping at each other but had the same room got to split up and have their own rooms... but one or the other would always drag their blankets into the other room and sleep there. They were always sniping at each other because they are best friends and after a week, they passed on being split up and let the next kid down the line get the room.
Atex3330@reddit
My sister and I were the same way. Brother moved out, we stayed in the same room despite being offered to get our own room. But we are also identical twins so there's that
Joel_feila@reddit
Twins?
syrioforrealsies@reddit
Nope. Two years apart
Derwin0@reddit
I’m surprised. I happily helped my brother move into my sister’s old room when she left home.
syrioforrealsies@reddit
They've always been close, and the room was big enough that they weren't crowded
Derwin0@reddit
If they were in High School then they couldn’t have split them up against their wishes as State law allows children to choose who they live with at 14.
jackfaire@reddit
Whereas me and my brother always hated it from a very young age.
Substantial-Ad-8575@reddit
My kids had their own bedrooms. 4 children and their parents, always had a 5/6 bedroom house.
Kids had big backyard, barn, pool to use. Spent a lot of time together, until middle school. Then they started hanging out with friends.
By high school, all had almost independent lives. Still together as family for meals, events, vacations. All went off to college, now it’s just visits and holidays. We do get together at least once a month for family day. Do big family vacations. Have extended family events throughout each year.
atomickristin@reddit
When my sister was a little girl, she invariably sneaked into my room every night for a couple of years. I was a young teen and it didn't particularly bother me.
Derwin0@reddit
When my boys were young, they would sleep in each other’s room all the time.
visceralthrill@reddit
Mine were as well, and then at about ages 9 and 10 they wanted their own space so we went from having one bedroom and a playroom to two bedrooms for them.
Most little kids like the comforting feeling of being with others. But the older we get the more likely we are to want space and quiet, especially if we're introverted, so we can recharge and rest, and just do things in a judgement free zone.
Shadowfalx@reddit
This depends on culture.
And having personal space doesn't always mean having your own room. Often personal space can be provided by time sharing or even just having a bed with a way to block off the world (like a sheet hung up)
Playful_Fan4035@reddit
My kids share a room because they want to. There’s another bedroom, but they prefer to be together, they’ve never had any interest in having their own room. Neither really likes to sleep in a room by themselves. They have bunk beds, so they have some of their own space in their room, but they don’t sleep as well by themselves, it’s lonely for them.
talulahbeulah@reddit
My two younger kids had separate rooms but they always ended up sleeping in the same room. I finally gave up and let them share a room.
Red_Beard_Rising@reddit
Depends on the background. America has a lot of immigrants from cultures similar to OP's culture. They often live like this in the US.
Sharing sleeping quarters has not been stereotypical "American" culture since probably the 1940's. But there are certainly Americans who share sleeping quarters with family members today. It's not limited to any particular group of immigrants either.
And after several generations as Americans, most of the immigrant population adapts the American "everyone has their own bedroom" idea.
The "American" exception: Siblings sharing a room. I shared a room with my brother when we were kids.
There was a second bedroom we could have used, but it was small. My brother was in that room until he could sleep in a bed rather than a crib. Then we shared the much larger bedroom that had been just mine. The two bedrooms were so different in size that my parents were concerned (understandable so) it would give us the impression of preferential treatment. Like 4-1 difference in size. So we shared the large room and the smaller one became mom's sewing room.
meagainpansy@reddit
Exactly. I know a lot of Arab-Americans and the only way their kids are sharing rooms is if they can't afford enough rooms.
casapantalones@reddit
My sister and I voluntarily shared a room for a few years when we were little, even though we each had our own room.
BeginningAd9070@reddit
There are Americans who have small homes with big families. But most municipalities have occupancy laws that require that different sex children stop sharing rooms with each other once they reach a certain age. This is much more enforceable when people are renting. These same laws dictate how much livable space must be present to house a certain number of people. It’s also a cultural difference. Most Americans don’t have lots of kids because they don’t want to. Most women here work, and educated women with careers and bills aren’t interested in being default childcare. It costs a lot to live in this country. Also, Americans are raised to value personal space. What works for your culture doesn’t work for us.
Pernicious_Possum@reddit
Because they’re two entirely different cultures
Current_Echo3140@reddit
Oh boy, several things here. Are children really considered a "blessing", or is that a view pushed on folks because access to birth control is limited in many Arab countries and keeping a woman pregnant/taking care of kids is a really effective means of social dominance? Its the oldest patriarchal trick in the book to call children a blessing and convince a woman that her worth and only role is producing and caring for them, so that she can't think about the lack of power and control she has. See also: Catholicism, which is even further behind since at least Islam approves of birth control.
Second, always look at child mortality rates. Historically, the "blessings" of being able to have many kids was because (speaking broadly and globally here) before the 1850s, the child mortality rate was around 50%. HALF of your kids would die before they were 5 years old. So yes, being able to have lots of kids was important because you were likely going to lose a good bit of them, and it would definitely be considered "blessed" to have more surviving children. It's hard to broadly surmise across Arab cultures because there is such a wide variation in come, but I'd bet child mortality rates are still comparatively high in most places there and you'll start to see a shift in how multiple children are viewed
Third, its economic. I strongly suggest the book Red Families v. Blue Families, which is couched in US terminology but does a great job breaking down how family structure has changed post industrial revolution. A very oversimplified breakdown in two parts is basically that it used to be economically advantageous to have a lot of kids: 10 kids meant you'd have 10 workers for your family farm (or more like 5, given mortality rates) and could do a lot more. There's no longer that type of return on investment of having multiple kids for most folks. Secondly, the resources needed for a successful child are so much greater in the current economy; in the 1950s, you could get a high school degree, get a good job that allowed you to support a family, buy a house and a Buick, and retire with a pension. All you needed to do to assure your kids had the same level of living you did was put them through high school. Now in order to have a successful kid, you have to pay for college and possibly postgrad, buy a house that costs much more in a good school district, pay for extracurriculars so they can get into a good college, etc etc. All two things combine to make it so that it 100% makes sense to take all of your resource and pour them into one or two kids. They're not likely to die, and the more resources you can give a single kid ,the more chance of success they have. There is no economic benefit to a parent having more than one kid anymore.
lyly-r@reddit (OP)
No one forces women to have more children though there are some men who do but most of the time it is the women who want many children because their lives are empty they like to fill them with children their stories and the struggles of raising them: caring for a baby taking another to school yelling at the older one and so on.
IPreferDiamonds@reddit
You think a woman's life is empty until she has children???
lyly-r@reddit (OP)
Yes they say"What else would we do? Even women who work say "When I come home from work I love to see children waiting for me". Many women are married to irresponsible men who are unfit to be husbands or fathers yet they have one two three or more children with them when we tell them they're being unfair to themselves and their children they say "What can I do? I love children and I love the idea of having them in my life and that they will take care of me when I get old"
IPreferDiamonds@reddit
Maybe in your country a woman has nothing else to do, but not in the US. Women have plenty of things to fulfill their lives, other than having children.
No_Quantity1153@reddit
Again proving how disgusting and misogynistic not only your culture is but also the dominant religion that I assume you follow that’s associated with your culture.
lyly-r@reddit (OP)
I only disagreed on the point about forcing women to get pregnant but the rest of the information is correct and I strongly agree with it. I don't see the need for insults, no matter how much our views differ. Thank you for the information.
No_Quantity1153@reddit
“It is the women who want many children because their lives are empty they like to fill them with children” their lives may well be empty but it’s not because their only purpose is to raise children like your culture believes to the point of putting it in law and definitely in religious law that they can’t function independently from a man. Give them freedom and two generations from now they won’t be much different to current American or in general western women.
Current_Echo3140@reddit
Well, may I just eloquently say from the bottom of my heart, fuck you and your harmful delusions. Why are you asking questions you don’t want the answers to or that you’re not open minded enough to consider?
Freuds-Mother@reddit
People in the US have a very high desire for square footage. It’s even multiples of many/most other developed countries. The only developed countries that may come close are Australia/Canada.
This goes for residential, retail, and office square footage.
burgundy_falcon@reddit
V.⁴c
ass-to-trout12@reddit
It was normal in america too until very recently.
lyly-r@reddit (OP)
So what's the reason for the change?
ass-to-trout12@reddit
There seems to be a societal outlook that youre a bad person if you cant afford to give your kids every little thing. Working class families with lots of kids are pretty openly looked down on especially online
SnoWhiteFiRed@reddit
It's not something I subscribe to when it comes to bedroom space as an American but I'm definitely in the minority. If you happen to have the space for each child to have their own room, sure. But anyone going out to buy a bigger house so their 2 kids of the same sex don't have to share the same room just looks financially wasteful to me and people choosing not to have more kids because their kids might have to share space if they did might make me look at them sideways. I get the practicality but I think most people would wish to exist over not existing if the only hardship was sharing a room with someone. I also think there's something to be said about privacy not just coming in the form of bedroom space as well as learning how to share space with others.
But most families in the US have 2 kids and can afford a 3-bedroom house so it's a non-issue.
lyly-r@reddit (OP)
Are you of Arab origin or not?
SnoWhiteFiRed@reddit
Nope. European ancestry. But I don't think my view has much to do with my ethnic origin. It probably has more to do with growing up lower middle class/upper lower class. When you grow up having not much/any extra money, people spending unnecessarily tends to look foolish.
SmartRefuse@reddit
“Why are cultures from opposite sides of the world different”
lyly-r@reddit (OP)
What are the real reasons for this big difference? this is what I'm asking about.
Scrappy_The_Crow@reddit
When you say "Arab culture," which Arab culture do you mean? Do families in Dubai and Kuwait, for examples, do this? I think you'll find it is tied to the family's financial wherewithal.
Historically, many American families did this as well out of necessity. You could have the entire 6+ person family in a single-room house, sometimes in winter even including farm animals in the same large room on the other side of a fence, short wall, or if they had the "luxury," a separate room.
lyly-r@reddit (OP)
Egypt, Iraq, Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia... I meant most Arabs not all of them every rule has exceptions The disaster here is their intense obsession with having children regardless of the circumstances.
flyamber@reddit
What options do they have for birth control?
lyly-r@reddit (OP)
They have all the options and every means of birth control but they love having children in their lives regardless of the children's best interests for example they live in the husband's family's house and have one room and a shared bathroom with everyone yet they have four children.So the problem isn't the lack of birth control options.
Little-Salt-1705@reddit
I find it hard to believe that in countries that allow women to be beaten so death for the crime of being raped, women have full access to all birth control regardless of what their husband thinks about the matter.
lyly-r@reddit (OP)
Yes it's provided for free in hospitals. When women go to the hospital to give birth doctors offer them all birth control methods afterward if they want them and most of them say no I know a woman who has six children and lives in her mother's house with her siblings she gave birth to a seventh child because she missed having a baby She doesn't have the time energy or financial ability to take care of her six children yet she still gave birth Regarding your statement about women being beaten to death for the crime of rape it's something that exists but is very rare. You can ask in any Arab community whether they have children based on their capabilities or their desires and also ask about their access to birth control I live in these communities and I know.
IntelligentProof8245@reddit
You have a childish silly view of arab countries. The caricature that you have created in your mind will stop you from interacting with the real world. Compare the the hyperbolic ridiculous view you have on Arab countries with the same ridiculous views many Arabs have on America and asses weather or not this sort of thing is conducive towards any critical thinking or problem solving.
2001exmuslim@reddit
Right, now I’m curious as to what the birth control/family planning is like in Arab/gulf countries
GayFlan@reddit
You’re fucking joking right?
lyly-r@reddit (OP)
I wish it were a joke I'm astonished by the conscience and sense of responsibility you have even if it's at the expense of your own desires I wish we had some of that conscience and sense of responsibility even if it meant sacrificing our own desires.
tyoma@reddit
The intensity is quickly dropping, see: https://amp.dw.com/en/middle-east-fertility-slump-fewer-babies-big-problems/a-73201865
The UAE already has fewer children per woman (1.61) than the US (1.62).
NegativeMammoth2137@reddit
I guess OP is just Arabic and is comparing his own culture to America
Squippyfood@reddit
By Arab culture I'm guessing OP is referring to traditional Islamic beliefs. It's super into the whole "be fruitful and multiply" stuff
tomatocreamsauce@reddit
Arabs are not all Muslim and Muslims are not all Arab! OP is not referring to Islamic beliefs, they are referring to a regional cultural practice.
Nyxelestia@reddit
I mean, that's a traditional Christian belief too, yet obviously it's not panning out in Christian-majority countries like the U.S.
galliumshield@reddit
Rich gulf states have birthrates of 2 to 3 children similar to married American couples.
Scrappy_The_Crow@reddit
I get that angle, but I'd say "cram all the kids into one room" isn't a traditional Islamic belief.
Squippyfood@reddit
I think the point is that decreasing living space for an increasing amount of kids is just less important to those cultures.
Scrappy_The_Crow@reddit
That's a valid point.
GladRutabaga990@reddit
As an American who grew up in extreme poverty... I never had my own room 😢 insomnia my entire life.
Trigger warning for child abuse ig:
I had to share with my brothers, one of which who always hurt and bullied me, I just wanted to be left alone from him.
And then with my grandmother, then mother.
I was given a bed at one point but it was so broken down there were huge indents and sharp springs poking into me.
I couldn't sleep.
Then I was put in my Granny's bed and she smelled so strongly of bengay and I had no room on the tiny bed so I couldn't sleep (always falling off) and that house was haunted...
Then I moved in with my mom to share a room with her.
She slept during the day so I didn't even get to really spend time in my room. :/ she gets very violent if I tried to go in to grab something and accidentally woke her up.
I've never liked it here in America. Woooonder why.
lyly-r@reddit (OP)
I hope your situation has improved now and that you're in a better place ,I feel for you.
infinitefacets@reddit
The concept of sharing a room is a nightmare to me. Privacy is I think the defining difference. I know in a lot of different cultures there is a certain all encompassing presence that parents have in their children’s lives. In American “culture” the end goal of raising a child is to let them find their way so that they are ultimately self sufficient at the earliest age possible. Privacy even as far as neighbors go is a very sacred thing. To be friendly with your neighbors is nice but they shouldn’t encroach on your property. Americans are territorial and having pride of place and ownership being taught at a young age reinforces several core American values. As toxic as it is America is built on this idea of together by separate.
Willing_Acadia_1037@reddit
I don’t even share my bedroom with my husband. I value my own space. Kids also like having their own room with their own things. My daughter has a pink bedroom and has all her dolls, stuffed toys, trophies, etc.
bi-loser99@reddit
Not being mindful of age or gender differences is what leads to a lot of sexual abuse within families regardless of culture. i’m all for sharing rooms, I shared a bunk bed with my brother until I was 10! but the reason it isn’t really seen as a positive (outside classism) is many people were left sharing a room with their abusers and don’t want to risk the same happening to their kids.
Jorost@reddit
Used to live in Saudi. Kids share rooms regardless of age or gender up to age seven. After that boys and girls are supposed to be kept separate. The end result is men in their twenties who have the sexual knowledge and experience (and maturity) of middle school boys. It’s bizarre.
Current-Feedback4732@reddit
Reddit is consistently upper middle income and this shows in the comments. It seriously varies in the US. In lower middle and low income households, sharing bedrooms is the norm. Growing up in a poorer area, nearly every kid I knew growing up shared a bedroom. I wouldn't say this is cultural preference, as I think most parents would prefer to give their kids separate rooms, but keep in mind that most people responding here come from the top half of the population economically at the very least.
RachelRTR@reddit
Yeah. I never had my own room until I moved out at 18.
JoeMorgue@reddit
Because calling children "a blessing" as a way to not care if you have the resources for them is dumb.
TiFist@reddit
This is how many Americans would see it.
Children are a burden financially, a burden in time, a burden emotionally, etc. The goal is to have one room per child and the number of children is *typically* much lower although there are subcultures that are an exception to that rule and have a strong preference for many children.
cIumsythumbs@reddit
Gonna be pedantic. Change your usage of "burden" to "responsibility" and you've got a valid point. The word "burden" is loaded with connotations I don't think you're intending.
RachelRTR@reddit
They are definitely a burden.
TiFist@reddit
I mean the responsibility piece, but also want to present a stark contrast to the concept of a 'blessing'. They may be a blessing, they may be a joy, but they will also lead to huge amounts of worry, fear, pain, concern.
They will be both.
Taking on the caregiving for another person is a somber, lifelong issue to be approached with utmost seriousness. The financial factor is a huge one, with massive opportunity costs. It can have huge effects on the career of the parents leading to more financial stress. Caring for a child through to productive adulthood (and giving them those advantages and opportunities they need to succeed) is expensive and it's an area where there will be social pressure to provide those things. Should it be expensive? Should there be so much social pressure? Those are separate questions. You're also incurring risks. Healthcare is very expensive. If you are 'blessed' with a mostly healthy child-- great. If you're not? If you have a child who may never live independently? That's a life-altering situation.
In many places you have to get around by car and have to provide child safety seats by law. Unless you get a very large vehicle, 2, maybe 3 kids is your limit. Transit becomes a huge issue at the point where you can't put more children in a single vehicle.
Many Americans remain child-free by choice, and I absolutely respect and honor that decision. Outside of some especially religious folks, few people would object to that decision.
Many people delay the choice to have children for all the reasons above, even if they do want children.
Many people of course have plenty of money and time to have children and do so.
I have experience looking into the US Foster care system, and seeing some truly horrifying situations, I'm more willing to admit my concerns where some folks may keep those fears and concerns private. When things go wrong (often with multiple children being a factor) they go really, really wrong.
msabeln@reddit
I wonder how children turn out, when they know that they are a burden to their parents.
Acceptable_Tea3608@reddit
When you use the word burden with its meaning, I would suppose Guilt is a big component.
msabeln@reddit
Guilt, and resentment. Maybe even hatred to some degree.
Acceptable_Tea3608@reddit
I don't think hatred from the child. For being a burden?
msabeln@reddit
Hatred towards the parent for thinking of them as a burden.
Acceptable_Tea3608@reddit
Some children think they are a burden, even though the parent has never indicated, because of their difficult living.
NatPatBen@reddit
My oldest occasionally says she doesn’t want kids because she sees how much work they require. Time will tell, as she’s only 13.
Silly-Resist8306@reddit
I have never felt that my kids are a burden, nor do I know anyone who feels thus.
On occasion I enjoy privacy and think my kids might, too. We have several rooms in the house for group contact, but everyone has a space to retreat to should they want to be alone. Maybe to think, read, study, quiet, pray or just not have their annoying sibling be around. Let’s not make it some deep, dark burden.
bankruptbusybee@reddit
A burden is a responsibility. You are saying you’ve never felt responsible for your child’s well-being?
Cloverose2@reddit
A burden is a weight that you bear, something that is typically unwanted or difficult. It's a hardship something unpleasant that you have to deal with. It isn't 1:1 with responsibility. I am responsible for playing with my dog to keep her healthy and happy, I am not burdened with it.
Silly-Resist8306@reddit
I think burden has a nuance of difficulty or unpleasant; a heavy burden, a hard load. I have always found children to be the opposite, a pleasure. Perhaps it’s just semantics, but I willingly have taken the responsibility for my children in exchange for the joy they give to me. There is no hardship for me.
bankruptbusybee@reddit
There’s no hardship for you? At all?
You either have a unicorn of a child, or let your partner do all the work.
rawbface@reddit
There is no universe where kids are not a burden.
We as parents do not express disdain for that burden, we are happy to do it. We sacrifice, so they can learn, grow, and feel joy.
But they are absolutely a burden. That in itself is not a bad or remorseful thing to say. They cost time and resources. They are a burden.
Mediocre_Ad_6020@reddit
They still cost money, take up time, and have needs. And it's not fair to fill your house up with them if you can't meet those needs. I think that's what the other poster was trying to say. Sounds like you have the resources to manage the family size you have. But if people didn't have that space, then having too many kids in the home could actually become a burden.
TiFist@reddit
It's a resources question. Do you have the time, money, and ability to have kids? Do you have the time, money, and ability for each one if you have more than one? If yes and you want kids, go for it. If no, then certainly plenty of Americans would see stretching your resources too thin just to have more children as irresponsible.
ITrCool@reddit
FLDS folks as an example. IBLP folks as another.
TiFist@reddit
Quiverfull, etc. Pretty much all religiously based.
sweetgrassbasket@reddit
“Private bedroom” is not an objective need, though it may be a cultural priority for some. To imply that parents with different priorities about bedroom count of all things don’t care about their kids’ wellbeing betrays such a limited perspective.
I’ve met people from other countries who find the college roommate system in the US to be very odd. Two adults, usually strangers at first, sharing a bedroom. Would you accuse US universities of being “dumb” and “not caring if they have the resources” for the number of students they enroll?
Otherwise_Ad6640@reddit
I dont understand the downvotes you’re getting. That’s exactly how i see it as a non-american person.
sweetgrassbasket@reddit
Thank you. Sadly, it’s just another day of my compatriots being the worst.
cuntmagistrate@reddit
> Would you accuse US universities of being “dumb” and “not caring if they have the resources” for the number of students they enroll?
Yes, absolutely.
msabeln@reddit
Double rooms are seen as a way of inculcating socialization.
Cloverose2@reddit
The notion of what "enough resources" is goes back to culture. No, it isn't necessary for kids to have their own rooms. It's strongly preferred by many, but sharing rooms is perfectly fine and will not harm the children in any way other than being annoyed with their siblings. It's only very, very recently in US history that the idea of each kid having their own room became important.
Having a small house doesn't equal not having enough resources. In the US, we generally have very high standards of living and a strong emphasis on individuality and consumption. That means high resource demand. Other cultures emphasis interdependence and cooperation, with less of an emphasis on consumption. The resources needed per individual is much lower. Neither lifestyle is inherently better or produces better people.
Kids need time, attention and structure more than they need their own rooms and material goods. A multi-generational household in a smaller space is more likely to have material limitations, but more people that children can go to if they have needs.
YogurtclosetFair5742@reddit
Go watch Jesus Camp and get back to me.
Pretend-Row4794@reddit
In what world? My family has 2 kids and my sister and I shared u til high school.
My aunts who have 5+ kids, most of their kids have shared
And in America, if you not religious or rural you only have 2-3 kids. And then I don’t think they’re usually super close in age. Most kids share a room or it’s a 4 bedroom home
GreenTravelBadger@reddit
Yes, we are required to separate children's bedrooms by gender after the age of 10 and i'm certain you can understand why that might be. Having personal space and privacy is always going to be beneficial.
mahgretfromqueens@reddit
For my family, the reason we're reluctant to have another child (we only have one currently) is because my son and I almost lost our lives when I went into early labor. We're scared of the complications occurring again and our child dealing with the loss of a sibling and/parent as a result. It's too much of a risk for our family.
Traditional-Run-6946@reddit
It’s not a cultural thing, it’s an economic thing. As societies become wealthier birth rates go down. Americans used to have a bunch of kids as well before American society got wealthier and standard of living went up.
Onahsakenra@reddit
Yes, I have personally experienced both living in crowded environment and then moved to more personal space environment. Obviously having more personal space is infinitely better experience because you have privacy and freedom of movement and no worries of others (siblings usually) breaking/taking your things etc. I cannot imagine ever going back to living space without everyone having their own space, and I probably will not have more than one kid or not have kids at all because I hate having too many people making noise or chaos lol. The Arab way (as you describe it OP, and going based only on this) sounds like a nightmare for me and I would never want that lifestyle for myself.
lyly-r@reddit (OP)
The difference between you [Americans] and Arabs is that as you say "I suffered so I won't let my children live through what I did even if it means having only one child" Arabs however say Our grandparents lived in one room and so did we therefore our children will also live in one room.
seatownquilt-N-plant@reddit
Ideally Americans strive to give their children a better standard of living than the previous generation. Economic upward mobility with each generation.
NelPage@reddit
It’s not universal in the US. There were 8 people in my family and we were lower middle class. We had 3-4 bedrooms at the most.
nkdeck07@reddit
Yeah... Don't look at how the kids are treated, look at their Mom's. Pregnancy and childbirth are hard and in every single society where women have easy access to birth control they severely limit the number of kids they have. Arab culture has significantly less autonomy for women and hence tons of kids. Where said kids go afterwards is kind of a side effect
philplant@reddit
Americans are higher income and therefore do not have many children. Also the US is huge and land is cheap, so multi bedroom houses are cheaper than other countries.
No_Appointment6273@reddit
It's not just privacy, it's a matter of health and hygiene.
The US went through a lot of different community-spread illnesses and if one child got sick it was easier to quarantine them if they had their own bedroom. Even if the family had a two bedroom house, the single sick child could sleep in one bedroom while the other family slept in the other bedroom until the sick child was well. My grandmother was born in 1925 and her brother got sick, I forgot which sickness. Her father built him a room on the back of the house, it took him two days (no permits in those days.) Yes, it was a tiny little room just big enough for a bed and desk with a window and a door to the house.
iSc00t@reddit
I think in the US we highly value independence and self reliance. This means having your own space to not only call your own but also to take care of and look after. Also why we tend to kick our kids out at an early age to live in their own.
It has its pros and cons. Independence is good, but having a large family all living together can help when others are unable to.
tparady@reddit
I shared rooms with my siblings growing up and then had roommates in college. I've never considered that I didn't have my own room until I was in my 20s.
athenank@reddit
It seems selfish to me to prioritize having more children over making sure you have adequate space and resources for each child
hawken54321@reddit
Direct correlation between education level of population and number of children from each woman.
hiketheworld2@reddit
I’ve always been fascinated by the Edsel Ford House in Michigan. When they were building it, 2 of the sons requested a shared bedroom and a shared office instead of their own bedrooms. It made such an impression that even with close to unlimited resources the kids preferred shared space.
Odd_Sail1087@reddit
The American households who do this also consider children a blessing. It’s wealth religion and education that impact people of all backgrounds in whether or not they end up blessed with very large families.
Though as someone who has a spouse from a family like that, he was always wanted a very small family and none of his siblings have kids at all. They all express that they didn’t get all their needs met. Many kids from large families in this day and age are choosing to go on and not have any kids or have only 1-2 kids.
2001exmuslim@reddit
lol I think it’s a cultural thing. Americans are so many ethnicities and cultures and tbh my Black American family viewed us the same way you described Arab families, not prioritizing privacy and forced to stay in smaller homes despite a growing family.
Bozocow@reddit
If you have 5 kids they share rooms. Pretty hard not to.
riotreality006@reddit
I’m not sure what the number is, but there are restrictions on how many people are allowed to live in the same house. I think it’s two per bedroom, plus one if they’re under four years old. But it’s also different in every state.
1988rx7T2@reddit
It’s called not having enough money for a big house. I live in Michigan and plenty of arab heritage people embrace big cars and big houses once they’ve gotten some financial success.
The standard of living is just higher in the USA.
SteelGemini@reddit
I'd be curious to see what the houses of wealthy Arabs living in Arab countries are like. I would assume you're correct that with the resources to own or build a home with enough rooms for each child to have their own, they would. I'm open to being shown otherwise though.
Griegz@reddit
I think we can safely assume that all the children in the House of Saud did not share a single room.
fartingbeagle@reddit
Not even a single mother!
1988rx7T2@reddit
I suspect single family suburban homes with 3-5 bedrooms and a garage are rare in most Arab countries. So you’ve got basically the super wealthy crony capitalists, oil magnates, and everybody else living in a rural area or in urban apartments they rent. That’s a broad generalization.
belle204@reddit
Single family houses are not really that rare. Even in urban environments, you can see villa walls next to an apartment building. There is also more and more American style suburban sprawl development in the past couple decades.
While the wealth disparity is worth discussing, your generalization is a bit dramatic. These houses are achievable to families in what might be considered the “professional” class so doctors, attorneys, etc. They definitely have a higher QOL than an average citizen but they are no where near the level of wealth that you initially described
LizaBlue4U@reddit
Yep. I'm in the San Francisco area, and Arab people have moved here, built huge mansions, and spread out. I know one family from Egypt that has a suite for each child with their own bedroom, playroom, and bathroom. It's all about having the money to spread out.
jetkism@reddit
The only Americans I knew who grew up sharing bedrooms with siblings were Christians part of the “Quiver Full” movement, so their families also thought of children as not just a blessing but a duty to have many. They also made the effort to keep brothers and sisters separated however.
AldenteAdmin@reddit
Americans value privacy and independence, also it’s seen as a marker of wealth and home quality. It’s normal enough for younger children to share rooms in the US, but around puberty that starts to end as the child gains more independence. Also many would consider more than 2 children to a bedroom to be a bit much, but it does happen. In American culture private property, privacy and a right to independence is a big focus. Giving children their own rooms to maintain, decorate and have as their own “space” away from others is kind of just training wheels for life in a way.
vijfteen@reddit
There are many studies that show that cramped or crowded living conditions can have severe negative mental health consequences for children.
justducky4now@reddit
American was founded by puritans and the prudishness remains.
Footnotegirl1@reddit
Privacy is highly regarded in the United States, culturally speaking. This stands for all ages. When I was growing up I was in what's considered a larger family (five kids), my 3 brothers shared one bedroom and I shared a bedroom with my sister. My brothers and sister moved out honestly as soon as they could in desperation to have their own space.
vitarosally@reddit
I grew up in a large family in a two bedroom house. All of us kids slept in one bedroom. I slept in a large bed with two of my brothers for years. That's why I sleep on my side to this very day. You couldn't lie flat. As we all aged and my brothers started going into the military, I finally got my own bed. Kids now don't know how great they have it, and all they do is complain and tell everyone how miserable they are. Keep in mind we all shared a single bathroom for 9 people.. That was the worst part of the whole thing. When I got my first apartment all alone, I was in heaven.
nolagem@reddit
Americans don't generally live with other generations (i.e. parents/grandparents). We prefer that our kids have their own rooms. My daughters shared a room until they were about 8 yrs old. Then we remodeled the house so they had their own. All of my four kids had their own room, as did I and my sister when we were growing up. It's a place of privacy, which kids need, especially as adolescents. I don't think kids feel "blessed" when there are six to a room.
Englishbirdy@reddit
Children are considered a blessing in American culture and their autonomy and privacy is respected as people, not just children.
mwhite5990@reddit
It is normal for kids of the same gender to share rooms, especially when they are younger.
Growing up I shared a room with my sister and my brother had his own room. Although we had our own rooms by the time we were teenagers.
NatPatBen@reddit
Exact same for me and my brother and sister.
splittingxheadache@reddit
Because we have houses big enough to support our current levels of fertility with most people getting their own room of some sort.
Nyxelestia@reddit
I don't think this is as much a culture question as it is a class question. Lots of Americans who can't afford more will cram large families into small homes, and conversely you see fertility rates dropping in a lot of Arab-majority countries just like many other parts of the world.
There is a cultural element, don't get me wrong, but I think you might be overestimating it in the context of your question.
AmandaWildflower@reddit
It’s not just between Arab and America. I was 2 it was 1982. Korea. At that time it was uncommon but not unheard of for business men from the west to go to Korea. It was rare for western women. It was unheard of for small western children or babies. I was 2. Failure to thrive. I looked just under a year old. I still have nightmares of the Korean women everywhere we went…. They would just mob my mother in groups. Then they would all start grabbing at my face. Once I hade 6 of them on one cheek all ripping it in different directions. 4 on the other cheek. It hurt. It was torture. My mother was unable to defend me she would be so overwhelmed by these excited women who had never seen a western baby. It deserves to be noted what they were screaming in my face as they ripped it to shreds like creepy Maenads at a Bacchanal, translates as “cute! Cute! American baby!” They were behaving in accordance with their culture completely unaware their intrusion into my personal space and their well intentioned assaults of adoration would traumatize me for life. I turned 45 in July. My husband tells me I still scream at them sometimes in my sleep to get their hands off my face.
mamaMoonlight21@reddit
I think it comes down to the American ideal of Independence. This is very important to us.
Budget-Rub3434@reddit
It depends on the part of the country you live in and your socioeconomic culture. Many people where I live in the US cosleep with their children.
cheekmo_52@reddit
I grew up in a crowded home. But we didn’t share rooms with other genders. I was the only girl for the first 13 years. So my parents would have one room, and my brothers would all pile into the other bedroom and my bed would be squeezed in where it would fit…like the landing at the top of the stairs or the pull out couch in the family room, etc. when my mom remarried we moved into a five bedroom house, and I had a proper bedroom all to myself. Finally having some privacy was wonderful.
rodgamez@reddit
Texan Here. I'm the fourth child. Grew up in a two bedroom house.
My sister slept in my parents room.
My older brothers shared the 2nd bedroom.
I slept on the couch until my oldest brother joined the military.
When 2nd brother moved out, I lost my room to my sister.
I moved into an unfinished, unheated, uncooled cement floored addition to have my own space.
Intrepid_Fox-237@reddit
There is a range of traditions among subcultures in America. Reformed Protestants tend to have bigger families, are more likely to homeschool, and view children as a blessing. It is not uncommon for siblings to share rooms.
canadiuman@reddit
We have three of our kids in one room because we needed an office during and after Covid. Trying to figure out how to get our 13-year-old her own room now though.
Constellation-88@reddit
If you can afford a home with private space and communal space, then that’s what you want. This way you can share the living room together or the family room or the kitchen or dining room while still having a personal space to retreat to, maintain your possessions that you don’t want young kids breaking, and decompress if you need a break from interacting with people for a while.
The only families who don’t have that are ones who can’t afford it, which is no shame on them because that’s never the fault of the working class. But everyone I know who doesn’t have personal space in their home dreams of it and looks forward to being able to afford that one day.
No_Strawberry_939@reddit
I shared a bedroom with my sister back in the 60’s , 70’s and part of the 80’s until I moved out and she did as well .. we grew up middle class not poor but we grew up in New York where most people live in apartments.. it was fine 👍
GriffinArc@reddit
Probably just a cultural issue that has roots in desert culture. Less livable space, families pack in closer. America has a LOT of livable space that eases taboos on wanting elbow room. Also, give Arabic culture another generation and large families will start shrink. Probably have already started. My father was the tenth kid in his family. My grandfather was the tenth in his. But my dad only had three children. Extra space ain’t cheap and that leads to mothers leaving the home and family sizes shrinking. Kinda ironic? More space but less desire for more kids.
famousanonamos@reddit
Briefly shared a room with 3 siblings. It was miserable. We had no space and no alone time. 3 girls, one boy, 6 year ages span, which is roughly when at least one is a teenager. What 15 year old want to share a room with a 9 year old? It's even worse if someone wants to have a friend over, which pretty much couldn't happen during that time. For a little while I had to share a room with my step brother and that was awful. I otherwise shared a room with my closest sister until I was around 13. It was fine for the most part, but we fought a lot less when we were separated. I think we appreciated the time we had together more when it wasn't forced and constant.
VeronicaMarsupial@reddit
It's pretty common for young children to share a bedroom, but usually just two, sometimes three children in one bedroom. As they get older, it's usually desirable for them to have their own space if possible.
Continuing to have more children when you don't have much house space is generally considered irresponsible. People's ideas of how many is too many varies, but children are generally considered actual people whose needs and feelings matter, and having no privacy or personal space is aggravating for most people.
I can't even imagine my parents or most grandparents being willing to share a bedroom with their grandchildren unless there was some situation of dire necessity and everyone just had to deal with it...but avoiding such situations would be a priority. "We're just going to keep having kids and we can stick them in with Grandma" would be considered thoughtless and rude.
nashamagirl99@reddit
I think it’s a matter of perspective and life experience. Living in one room with a large family or different ages and genders doesn’t sound fun to me either, but if that’s how I’d grown up and lived my whole life, and how most people I knew lived, then it would just be a normal part of existence
OldBlueKat@reddit
I shared with Grandma for a few years as a pre-schooler, when my Dad's widowed Mom moved in with us. She still was reasonably healthy at that point, just pretty destitute. Over time, she and her sons sorted out better options for her.
Sharing a bedroom with her, and having her around to help and bake cookies and so on, was not a big deal to me. My Mom was less thrilled because they didn't see eye-to-eye on "how to run a household." But 4yo me was mostly cool with it!
FlyingSquirlez@reddit
My younger brother and I shared a room until some time in high school (maybe around 16 years old?). I never thought it was weird and wasn't bothered by it. It wasn't a space issue, we had the rooms necessary for it from the time I was about 13. My dad was the one who eventually decided we would have separate rooms, so we did. I had my own room for the rest of high school and college, and now I share a room with my wife. It's nice to have your own space, but I'm honestly unbothered by sharing space as long as everyone's respectful of the space.
StandardLocal3929@reddit
Middle class Americans were raised with their own rooms. To raise children in shared rooms implies that they cannot afford the life their parents had, which they often can't, and by extension that they are letting their children down in some way. In other countries, that much personal space wasn't expected in the first place, so lacking it does not signify failure in the way it does to the American mind.
nigliazzo5626@reddit
Having your own space is 10000x better than being cramped with a big family. I hated living in a small trailer with 8 other people. I had to share a room with brothers as an only girl and it sucks. Opposite genders shouldn’t have to share rooms at all.
WorthlessLife55@reddit
Part of it might have ro do with how the West values individuals over the group.
the_real_JFK_killer@reddit
Americans very much so value personal space. That's why we have big houses and yards. To not allow a child to have their own space would be seen as weird or overbearing here.
Yggdrasil-@reddit
I'd say weird and overbearing is a bit of an exaggeration. There are plenty of families where 2-3 kids share a room, especially same-gender siblings. I shared a room with my sister until we were 18/20 and nobody ever thought it was weird.
Ur_Killingme_smalls@reddit
I don’t think siblings sharing a room is seen as weird, with the exception of m/f siblings after puberty. Parents sharing a room with their kids would be seen as weird.
tutti_frutti_dutti@reddit
Yeah my brothers always shared a room and I often shared a room with them too if we were renting somewhere with only two bedrooms. When I have kids I kind of like the idea of having them share a room up to a certain age. Or longer if space demands. I think it fosters a sense of compromise and closeness. And I think it’s good for kids to argue and learn to sort out their own disagreements.
smmras@reddit
Yeah, if you have 3 kids (as my family did), you need 4 bedrooms for everyone to have a room, and that's pretty expensive for a lot of people.
We were pretty well off, and I shared a bedroom with my brother until I was 15, when we moved to a bigger house.
Somewhat unrelated, I never had locks on my door either. My dad would knock and take any response whatsoever as an invite to open the door.
DrBlankslate@reddit
Not just weird or overbearing - abusive.
lelskis@reddit
✨McMansions✨
the_real_JFK_killer@reddit
And as much as we like to joke about them, theyre pretty nice to live in.
Disneyhorse@reddit
Sort of. In my experience they’re a pain and I would never live in one in the future. You definitely have to be affluent enough to afford to hire people to clean the interior and maintain the landscaping. Utilities are high for the HVAC and watering the lawns and extra bins for yard waste. Home maintenance is higher… larger houses have multiple AC units in my area that need to be maintained and replaced every couple decades. Want to repaint a room? Vaulted ceilings everywhere and it’s a chore. Furnishing huge rooms with larger scale rugs and couches and pieces of art is expensive. And if you like to cook… the huge kitchens are pretty fun for entertaining and there is space for built in fridges and double ovens. But you have to walk a mile to get to and from the fridge and to the stove and sink. I actually prefer my smaller living space. As long as my kids still have their own bedrooms.
candybubbless@reddit
Completely agree. Those types of houses are nice if you have parties or entertain a lot, but id never want to live in one. Having to maintain and clean that huge of a place is exhausting and the people I know who are the closest with their family have usually always come from smaller, less flashy homes.
stingthisgordon@reddit
if I had to share a room with 5 siblings I would want to blow stuff up too
justattodayyesterday@reddit
As my cousin said. Two children is perfect. Most cars can fit the whole family. 3-5 you are in a minivan but sometimes a minivan can fit all the kids with all the car seats. 5+ you are looking at a passenger van.
tutti_frutti_dutti@reddit
Individualistic culture vs communal.
But even in America kids will share a room when they have to. Growing up very poor there were times when my 2 brothers and I shared a room. Post puberty lots of people were scandalized by this because I was a girl but what was the alternative? You can’t just magic a 3rd room into existence. It was an active priority for me to have my own bedroom because I was a girl, but not my brothers. It made perfect sense for them to share and nobody gave it a second thought. I’m only in my twenties but I think that attitude is changing. Parents seem to feel guilty making their children share a room no matter the situation.
On the flip side, my aunt and uncle slept in the living room so that their two daughters wouldn’t have to share. This seemed like such preferential treatment towards their daughters that it made by brothers and I uncomfortable to visit them. There was a clear hierarchy of parent over child in our household and the subversion of that in our cousin’s case just felt wrong.
DadooDragoon@reddit
Individuality and respect for privacy are very important in American culture
You can't have those if you share a room with like 5 other people
DrBlankslate@reddit
Privacy and personal space are not optional in the United States. If you get too close to me I'm going to push you away. Too close is within arm's length. If you can reach out and touch me, you are way too close. Stand back and respect my space.
SuspiciousSide8859@reddit
Paying for them to exist within the American economy is quite difficult unless you have a lot of cash flow - or just don’t care if they all can go to college or not.
yidsinamerica@reddit
Lmao bless your hearts.
HeatwaveInProgress@reddit
Grew up in a 600sqft 2-bedroom apartment (not in the US) - two adults, 3 kids, a dog. Obviously sharing a bedroom. Fairly normal for everyone. I am the oldest. Hated it. I am of the opinion that if you can give your kids privacy, do that.
pilfro@reddit
We all shared a big bed, my grandfather almost never left it until I won a tour of a factory.
IPreferDiamonds@reddit
I heard all 4 of your grandparents shared a bed, and they never left it! Your grandfather only got out of bed for that tour of the factory.
Itsworth-gold4tome@reddit
In our area of the US, we all give our kids their own bedrooms often with its own bath. Currently our family is expecting the birth of a new baby and even newborns have rooms coming home from the hospital.
ophaus@reddit
It depends on money and space, of course. The US is the land of plenty, but not for everyone. The goal here is one room per kid, usually.
No_Quantity1153@reddit
Because Arab culture is still archaic and stuck in the past. Just like the dominant religion in their culture.
ElaineBene@reddit
It’s common among upper middle class and above.
I had 4 kids in a small home that rich people would call “a starter home”. All 3 of my girls shared a room.
Now my 2 oldest are on grown. My son bought a house but my daughter has had a few rocky years and lives in our tiny basement apartment and is pregnant with her 3rd kid. Until they get on their feet. Her and her husband’s bed in the living room.
I don’t think money is the only factor here. I think people who believe in God (we’re Christians) know that material things don’t matter and children are a blessing.
21schmoe@reddit
Fertility rates are in decline across the world, including in Arab counties.
A little backwards.
It's the adult that needs privacy. So, it would be very unusual for an adult (parents, grandparets) to be forced to share a room with a child or grandchild.
Children, especially the same gender- sharing a room is not at all unusual.
Over the past few decades, the birth rate has declined, while homes have gotten bigger. So, it's very common for each child to have their own bedroom. But children of the same gender sharing a room wouldn't raise any eyebrows.
What would be strange is if an adult is forced to share a room, whether it's with children/grandchildren, or another adult (except their own spouse).
WalkingOnSunshine83@reddit
A lot of this depends on economics. My mother shared a room with her sister when she was growing up. I (50’s, F) shared with my brother when I was very little, then my family moved to a house where I had my own room. I have a friend who lives in a very expensive area; her son’s “room” is a pull-out couch in the living room, but she’s rather live like that than change his school district or commute further.
ButterFace225@reddit
I think it depends. My crib (from what I know) was in my parents room as a baby. I shared a room with my older brother until I was 8. The house that we lived in before my parents bought a home was smaller. It's more common for everyone to have a space if there are enough bedrooms.
Paisley-Cat@reddit
I believe that OP may not be taking into account the differences in the physical environment, with less time spent outdoors and with windows closed, and the impact of these on expectations for privacy indoors.
There are also significant public health concerns regarding overcrowding in housing in colder climates. Homes where bedrooms are shared are a factor in communicable diseases to the point that overcrowding statistics are important factors in overall health outcomes.
Infectious diseases such as respiratory viruses are a significant cause of illness in the winter months due to people staying in closed environments.
In the parts of North America with overcrowding in housing, tuberculosis remains a significant illness.
These are longstanding issues that have shaped northern societies for millennia and have encouraged households to have separate spaces where families can afford them.
Whether or not that has influenced expectations about personal space is an interesting question.
SassyMoron@reddit
As countries become developed they go from larger family sizes to smaller family sizes and the amount spent on each child goes up. No one totally knows why but it's been observed all over the world.
Hexoplanet@reddit
I’m American and shared a room with zero privacy until I moved out at 19. My (Arab) boyfriend, on the other hand, always had his own room even with 4 siblings. The difference is money, not culture imo.
Ok_Organization_7350@reddit
In American culture, two children of the same gender can share a bedroom with each other. But brothers and sisters do not share bedrooms, and children do not share a bedroom with parents. In many Americans' viewpoint, when parents go outside of this standard, then they are considered as "bad parents" who have done something wrong. They are thought of as irresponsible by not planning ahead for their family size and their housing capabilities.
Also I don't mean to offend anyone, but the way you describe it makes it seem even worse than you realize. To Western culture, it makes it look like people in that type of Arab culture are collecting children, in the same manner which someone would collect inanimate objects such as art or fancy cars. For example, they are more concerned with having a high number of children just to show off for their own selfish reasons. However, at the same time they are not valuing those children, because the higher the number of children, the less attention/ affection/ resources they will receive from their parents; and the children will grow up in a poorly overcrowded living situation.
Super_Reading2048@reddit
It is frowned upon to have children of different genders share a room. Generally speaking by 5 or 6 years old they are separated by gender. Americans tend to have less children (2 or 3 is average.) I grew up in a large family and shared a room with my sister. My 3 brothers shared a room.
I think this one has more to do with family and house size, than culture.
Southern-Sail-4421@reddit
Fertility rate is higher in most of US compared to Arab countries
Bellociraptor@reddit
Some of these comments are pretty hostile.
But in addition to the basic issues of cost and personal space, most families and communities just aren't structured to handle that many children.
Intergenerational living isn't all that common, so grandparents and extended are usually not that close by and can't regularly provide additional support. Having live-in domestic help is also rare and expensive compared to many other countries.
That said, it varies a lot by cultural group here.
Just as a personal example, I straddle the line a bit in that my social life leans secular/non-religious, but my religious community is Orthodox Jewish. Some of the differences are stark.
Within my religious community, everything is much more structured around raising kids and providing support for one another.
Kids also frequently go to private school, but the school offers significant discounts for families with multiple kids and has extensive financial aid programs.
Iluvembig@reddit
Because in Arab/middle eastern culture, family is important and they care about their children and children’s well being.
American culture, it’s just a check mark or an “accident” they didn’t foresee. It’s having children for society sake, not for the betterment of it, but for you to appear better in it.
lyly-r@reddit (OP)
Do Arabs care about their children's well-being???? Arabs love children which is why they have them but the child's best interest is the last thing they think about for them a child's rights are limited to food drink and a place to sleep even if that place has the whole family crowded together.
Ok_Organization_7350@reddit
In American culture, two children of the same gender can share a bedroom with each other. But brothers and sisters do not share bedrooms, and children do not share a bedroom with parents. In many Americans' viewpoint, when parents go outside of this standard, then they are considered as "bad parents" who have done something wrong. They are thought of as irresponsible by not planning ahead for their family size and their housing capabilities.
SkiingAway@reddit
Here's a simple answer: Have you heard of many people voluntarily going the other way? No.
Just about no one who can afford to live the same life with a reasonable amount of space chooses to not do it.
o93mink@reddit
Because Americans are used to a dramatically higher standard of living
Budget-Attorney@reddit
We don’t know where OP is from. They just said Arab. Qatar and Yemen are both on the Arab peninsula and have drastically different standards of living. If they are from the former, There’s a good chance they have a far higher standard of living than the average American
o93mink@reddit
It’s pretty clear he’s not talking about oil sheikhs
BroughtBagLunchSmart@reddit
The Oil Sheikhs should be posting here more. "Is it true in america you are not allowed to execute your slaves?"
cans-of-swine@reddit
We might be able to again soon...
FunnyComfortable8341@reddit
Stop fear mongering
cans-of-swine@reddit
It was a joke...
Budget-Attorney@reddit
How do you know?
Because that was an important question to ask. I also assumed the idea of children sharing a room would have more to do with wealth than culture. I’m America as well, the idea that children get their own room is heavily dependent on the wealth of their family.
It would be very interesting to find out that even in wealthier Arab countries children are still not expected to have their own room
o93mink@reddit
Historically? Or very very recently?
Soupallnatural@reddit
I grew up in a large family that was lower middle class to poor depending on who you asked. So we just didn't have enough rooms for everyone. On the contrary my husband is Moroccan and grew up there (in my opinion, insanely wealthy) they had their own rooms, even in their vacation houses. We both come from large families. So I think the divide might be more economical than cultural. But from a child development standpoint privacy is important. But the largest cultural difference is that Arab culture values communal living, I'm not sure how common this is but in my experience generational houses are quite common, but in the US it's more common for couples to not live with relatives and start a "new family" when they get married rather then combining preexisting families. So if you're starting from scratch you can preplan space for children.
quietlywatching6@reddit
It's also important to understand that third spaces are far harder to come by in America than in most of the world. I'm miles from the nearest park, roads are often VERY unsafe to play in, and culturally we expect our children to study, practice, and other school/public life growth activities alone/not in public spaces within the home. It's such a thing we actually use it to judge your personality. It's a commonly asked question were you a "bedroom" or a "living room" family?
buried_lede@reddit
Big families are rarer now but we doubled and tripled up, usually by gender and if you had money , you bought a bigger house as your family grew. There are pros and cons to both
EggplantAmbitious383@reddit
I personally think children are valued more so than considered a blessing in the US. Valued in that parents want to do whatever they’re able to ensure their child/children succeed and thrive. Less children means parents are able to provide more attention and resources to those they have as opposed to trying to spread limited resources among many.
My sister and I shared a room until I was 9 and she was 5. Even then, we had definite “sides” of the room that the other was not to cross. I had my things, she had hers…other than the room, we did not have shared things. If I wanted to use something of hers, I had to ask and vice versa. When we got separate rooms, we both preferred that. It was good to have our own space where the other’s mere breathing could get annoying. Now that we’re adults and have our own houses, we find this is the best arrangement and the only reason why we don’t still fight like cats and dogs 😂
RockShrimp@reddit
Puritanism.
MCRN-Tachi158@reddit
Go visit a developing country like Vietnam. Wealthy=Fewer kids, big house, separate rooms. Poor countryside=More kids, not many rooms, sometimes the entire house is one big room.
badtux99@reddit
It all depends on the income level of the family in the United States. I taught in a ghetto school for a while and it was common there for children to share beds. There were more children than beds in the house, nevermind bedrooms, so it was necessary, so they did it. Children were sometimes segregated by gender, but often not because there were limited beds and bedrooms. But yes, white middle class Americans put great stock upon individual bedrooms (and of course individual beds) for their precious crotch fruit. It is a luxury they can afford, so they do so.
merp_mcderp9459@reddit
Wealth. Americans can afford to have a bedroom for each kid. Before they could, they would make the kids share rooms
TinyChaco@reddit
My childhood mostly had me sharing a room with a sibling. Once in a while we had our own rooms (different living situations). For the entirety of high school, I shared a room with my sister and my two younger brothers shared a room together. We mostly didn't mind. I think if we had more siblings to share a single room with, we'd have thought it was horrible.
Positive-Avocado-881@reddit
You’re telling me that if Arab families could have houses big enough for separate rooms, they would choose squishing everyone into a smaller house?
lyly-r@reddit (OP)
I say that Arab families have children without thinking about their needs regarding private space for example you may find the first child living in the same room with the parents because there is no extra room and what do the parents do? They go on to have two three or even more children they prioritize their desire for motherhood and fatherhood over the well being of the child.
Agreeable_Mess6711@reddit
I grew up sharing a room with my sister my whole life because we weren’t rich and having a multi family home is a luxury.
Still, I think you would get a lot of raised eyebrows and possibly even reported if you had children of different genders sharing a room past the age of like 4 or 5. It seems pretty inappropriate, even to me.
In a personal note, I don’t believe a family should have more children than they have room for/can afford. As parents, it’s your responsibility and duty to provide the best life possible for your child who cannot provide for themselves, and shoving multiple kids on top of each other in a small space is not doing that. I think most Americans hold this view, which is why we tend to have less children in general but try to provide ‘more’ for them.
Ursus_the_Grim@reddit
Some good answers. There's also a fair number of blended families where this question gets stickier.
If you're a woman, would you feel comfortable letting your new husband's father share the room with your 16 year old daughter? Almost certainly not, for an American. I imagine even in Arab culture there might be a raised eyebrow.
I was an only child until I was 10. Then I had two half-brothers, and even though I still had my own room, the house was less comfortable. Then my mother got remarried to a man with four kids, and I had to share a room in the basement with my older 'brother.' It sucked, even though he and I got along well.
napalmtree13@reddit
I was an only child until about the same age, because then my mom finally settled for one of her many revolving door boyfriends and he had two kids. Then, the two of them had two more. I love my siblings, but my mom and step dad were morons for having so many kids. There was not enough space and (more importantly) neither of them were good parents. I didn't have to share a room because they always lived above their means, but the house was cramped and noisy as hell.
Sorcha9@reddit
I was raised in a small space and always shared rooms. I raised my kids the same. What you are describing in Arab culture was the norm for me.
Ok-Aside2816@reddit
you cant say american culture like its one size fits all
tacincacistinna@reddit
This is money and culture dependent. I grew up with multiple siblings in a room but it was usually a boy room and a girl room.
mongooser@reddit
It’s mostly tied to privilege. The more space you can afford the more privacy you get. I’d say that most people are not going to let kids of different genders share a room, though. And a lot of states codify that for subsidized housing, also.
OldBlueKat@reddit
This changed quite a lot in the last 50 or so years. Some of it is around foster kids and adoptions, some of it is around fire codes and other 'zoning' laws to prevent 'overcrowding', but it maybe has swung a bit too far. It also depends on your family's economic circumstances.
Back in the 60s and before, siblings 'sharing rooms' was much more common, and bedrooms in general were smaller square footage (look at a typical suburban home built in 1950 vs. 1980 vs. 2010.) I shared with my grandma for a while when I was a preschooler; plenty of friends/ neighbors/ cousins had shared rooms of some sort. People knew they were 'getting ahead' when they could move to the bigger house, or put on an addition or convert an unfinished basement or attic and now every kid got their own room.
Look at "The Brady Bunch" house. Those kids shared those bedrooms, and the bunk beds depicted for the boys were common. Sure -- it's a TV sit-com, not necessarily how 'all of the US' was living. But TV Networks didn't show things that were WAY off from normal households on shows like that.
Q8DD33C7J8@reddit
Here's a video that explains it.
how family structure informs ideologys
Also the more developed a country is the lower the birthrate because the higher the development usually the higher the rights of women which leads to higher opportunities for women which leads to a lower birthrate due to being able to use family planning.
atomickristin@reddit
I have five kids (all teen and adult now) and have always had an unusually small house. It sucks in a number of ways, but in terms of family togetherness, we have it at a level that other families don't seem to. Kids do have their own rooms, but tend to hang out in the communal areas and only go in their rooms at bedtime. My husband is always amazed by this since both he and I stayed in our room growing up.
We get along fairly well, one of our kids is a bit difficult and starts a lot of quibbling but on the whole it's been a good experience.
SisterLostSoul@reddit
There was no expectation of separate rooms or privacy when I was growing up. I think that's a newer concept in the US. (I didn't have my own bedroom until age 27, when I divorced.)
As part of the baby boom generation and a middle-class family, we just didn't have that much space. Post-war middle-class housing was typically 1000-1200 square feet with 2 or 3 bedrooms and 1 bathroom. Family rooms, en suite bathrooms, playrooms, home offices - those all came later.
It's a common pastime nowadays to hate on baby boomers. What some younger people don't understand is that there were so many children that we really weren't treated as very special. We were thought of as little more than a commodity.
Schools were overcrowded and teachers in short supply. My grammar school lowered its hiring standards just to get enough teachers and our education reflected that. We all had chores to do after school and on weekends or the household couldn't function. Our childhoods were pretty good, but certainly not the idyll that some people like to paint it.
TooManyDraculas@reddit
It's largely affluence. Individual rooms for each kids is relatively recent in American culture, and not always the rule. Particularly where people have limited space or limited means.
Even into the 80s and 90s, individual rooms was sort of aspirational.
It largely runs in tune with the rise of suburbs, and post war Great White flight. Goes a bit hand in hand with the reduction in the number of kids most people have. And particularly in cities where space is at a premium, it's still fairly common for kids to share bedrooms. Particularly when younger.
It's very tied to that "American Dream" idea of a large stand alone, suburban home with a white picket fence and defined yard.
My mother is one of 10 kids, she never had her own room as a child. My father is one of 3, and shared a room with his sister, and then his much younger brother (8 or 10 year gap). Until he was in his late teens and more or less finished himself a bedroom in the basement. His family had moved out of the Bronx, to a succession of ranch and town house style suburban homes when he was young. But they never owned more than a 3 bedroom. And while in the Bronx, there was only 1 bedroom for any and all kids.
I've got 3 siblings, and we all shared bedrooms till my family was affluent enough to put work into the house adding space and changing the layout to add bedrooms. With my parents first house, 3 kids were sharing 1 bedroom, and my youngest sibling was in parents room. That second house initially it was 2 kids per bedroom.
This was "big" for the family, as kids having their own rooms was for rich kids at that time. And in that area.
The expectation here that kids will always have their own space, their own rooms. Regardless of circumstance, more or less get fixed with the expansion of tract housing and the rise of McMansions. Basically from the 70s on suburban development houses get larger, and larger.
And the trend with home ownership shifts towards purchasing the largest home you can afford, values of homes linked to variety of rooms and number of rooms. Rather than more limited looks at what kind of space you actually need.
That coincides with shrinking family sizes, so the average family simply needs fewer rooms.
So by the 90s, it becomes fairly common in a lot of areas for home owners to just have an excess of rooms in their house. If you have a 5 bedroom house, and 3 kids. Well everyone can have their own room, and you still have an extra.
This largely doesn't take place in a lot of other areas of the world. Even affluent places like Europe. Simply because house sizes just didn't bloat like that, almost no one else went as hard on sprawl and suburbs as the US did. The culprit on that was largely cars.
As goes privacy. I'm less up on that. But from what I recall it tracks along a really similar time line. And for similar reasons. Expectations of personal privacy kinda develop a bit earlier, but largely as space that allowed for it in the first place became more accessible.
Applying that to kids, from what I understand comes largely with the Baby Boom. And the rise of pre-teens and teens as a cultural driver. So right around the same time all that suburban development and social mobility are going down. And that seems to be where keeping boys and girls separated enters the equation.
Prior to WWII it was apparently common for children to even share beds, and even multi bedroom houses to only have a single bathroom. So personal privacy was fairly restricted for pretty much everyone.
It is still fairly common for kids to share rooms, at least when young. Most of my friends kids and most of my nieces and nephews. Either share rooms, or were sharing rooms until recently.
coolandnormalperson@reddit
Children are considered a blessing in every culture..
lemonprincess23@reddit
Our country was founded on independence, there’s a sense of pride a lot of us get from being as independent as possible. Hell that’s why so many of us turn to homesteading.
ConflictNo5518@reddit
With immigrant Chinese parents, my siblings and I (3 total) shared a room until the third floor with 2 bedrooms was built. Then our grandmother was moved from the ground floor in-law unit to one of the 3rd floor bedrooms and my brother to the other. The in-law unit remained empty while my sister and I shared a bedroom until I left for college.
HopeFloatsFoward@reddit
I used to share a room with a brother and sister. And a bathroom with the entire family. I certainly like the space I have now, but it wasn't a horrible life experience sharing a room.
Its more than the standard house now is a 3 bed 2 bath and people tend to have 1 or 2 kids that has led to children having to share less.
Americans also think their children are blessings , they just want to invest heavily in their children (time and money) so their lives are better, and its more effective if you aren't spread too thin.
Communal-Lipstick@reddit
Independence is highly valued in the US. It's really important to me that my daughter has her own room and space to develop individually.
Repulsive_One_2878@reddit
It's normal for kids to share a bedroom in the U.S. Generally you don't have boys and girls share a bedroom unless they are very young. If you are super poor, well then all the kids share a bedroom regardless. If you have the means then all your children have their own rooms. That's more important as they become a teenager though, as it's thought they need more privacy and independence at that stage in life. I remember both sharing a bedroom with my sister when I was young, and having my own as I got older.
szocy@reddit
Women get a choice in America.
DruncleMuncle@reddit
American > Arab
BudgetThat2096@reddit
That sounds awful. I love my little brothers but if I had to share a room with them as a kid I would have gone insane lol
ladymacb29@reddit
Just because we don’t have a ton of kids doesn’t mean we don’t think they are a blessing. A lot of us can’t afford a lot of kids and also do the calculation of how much time we can spend with each child individually. At some point, it just becomes the older kids parenting the younger ones (watch large families like the Duggers).
Jen0BIous@reddit
Well we also don’t have sharia law which allows the raping of women and children by men. In America women and children actually have rights. Not true in most Muslim countries.
MissFabulina@reddit
That may have been the reason that you were told why people have so many kids, but that is not the reason why people have so many kids.
On_my_last_spoon@reddit
American families used to have more children until second wave feminism and the women’s movement in the 1970s. Women wanted education and careers, and that usually means delaying marriage and children. The average age of first time mothers in the US is 27 now, with many women well over 30. You can’t even birth as many children safely after a certain age.
With that came valuing quality care for each individual child’s needs. Parents can spend more quality time with each child when they have only 2-3 kids that you can’t when there is 6-10 kids. My SIL has 5 kids and she and her husband run ragged caring for all their needs.
Kids still share bedrooms here, but we do split by gender. When they’re little, it’s not such a big deal, but preteen and older they’re gonna want to have privacy between sisters and brothers.
DarthKnah@reddit
Well it’s not abnormal for 2 children (usually of the same sex) to share a room in the US. But our families are typically small enough that there is no need to further pack them in, and I suspect that’s less due to culture and more due to overall trends in developed countries (where across the world fertility rates have dropped). 100 or 200 years ago US families were on average much larger, and personal space might have been viewed more similarly to how your culture views it now.
Acceptable_Tea3608@reddit
Women aren't illiterate with their husband's dominating and demanding sex whenever they want it, and sometimes taking it, regardless like it is in those other countries. Also knowledge and access to birth control (you did mention).
Adorable_Dust3799@reddit
Both my parents were depression era ('27 and '32) and that generation had smaller families in general. I had 1 uncle.
Derwin0@reddit
Pretty common when there are 3 or more children as most American homes are 3-bedroom.
DontReportMe7565@reddit
People are rich and soft. I grew up with 5 people sharing 1 bathroom. My brother and I shared a room for most of our childhood.
HVP2019@reddit
Having a lot of kids and everyone living in the same room/small house used to be norm everywhere. But then in many parts of the world people got options.
I am sure today, in Arab cultures if there is an option not to have 10 people of various ages and sexes in one room, they use this option.
Similarly having a lot of kids used to be a norm, then people learned that they have an option not to have a lot of children and with every generation more and more people have been using this option.
Secret-Selection7691@reddit
Interesting. Are you talking about Saudi Arabia? For some reason I picture them having huge houses with separate rooms for everyone. I don't know why.
palomdude@reddit
Children are “a blessing” in the US also. That’s not really a reason.
WindyWindona@reddit
Part of it is lower family size- back in the day, more kids meant more help on the farm or in the factories. Due to rising expenses of children (child labor laws, higher standards of living, more and more often college funds), women's liberation, and birth control people are having fewer children. Add in that Americans tend to have larger houses- partially culture, partially the size of the country/plenty of less dense areas- and the view for a need for personal space, it's common for every kid to have their own room or maybe one roommate. My siblings and I all had our own rooms in our house, for example.
JM3DlCl@reddit
I see it as extremely irresponsible to have kids if you don't have the means
Jaqen-Atavuli@reddit
I didn't have to share a room with my brother and could have gone to the guest bedroom? This is an outrage and mom is going to get yelled at! :)
Scout6feetup@reddit
Little girls sharing rooms with older boys or men is never okay
0rangeMarmalade@reddit
I shared a room with my brother until he was 13 and then I got kicked out of his room and shared a room with my mom until I was 15. I didn't like it, but that probably has more to do with my family dynamic than having to share a room.
elunabee@reddit
I mean my dad grew up in a 2 bedroom house the size of the two car garage we had when I was growing up. He had 9 brothers and sisters and his dad worked a factory job, so this was out of necessity that the kids shared a room. I have two siblings. They shared a bedroom until the oldest was about 12 and then she got her own room downstairs in the basement. It was important to my dad that we all had our own space because he didn't.
MeanderFlanders@reddit
This is something that bothers me about American culture. I see nothing wrong with having kids share a room or even a bed. Large families are a blessing but people act like you’re a neglectful parent of kids don’t have individual rooms.
googlemcfoogle@reddit
I've never seen anyone saying 2 siblings of the same sex aged 2-12 sharing a room is neglect in itself. I've seen criticism towards stepsiblings sharing rooms, opposite sex siblings sharing rooms, teens in general sharing rooms, babies sharing a room with an older sibling (since this usually means the older kid is expected to deal with the baby waking up at night), and overcrowding (more than 2 or maybe 3 people to a bedroom with no remaining guest room or office room to reshuffle into), but not room sharing as a whole
MeanderFlanders@reddit
Agree
joepierson123@reddit
Well I mean if you have 8 kids you have no choice to put multiple kids in one room I don't think it's a cultural thing.
ALoungerAtTheClubs@reddit
Most Americans with children would, rightly in my opinion, rather have fewer of them and devote more resources to each. Large families are not inherently a blessing.
But I just suppose this is another reason I couldn't be Catholic. I only like Natural Law arguments when it's the US Founding Fathers making them.
ALoungerAtTheClubs@reddit
You have theological reasons for this belief that most contemporary Americans don't share.
ketamineburner@reddit
I shared a bedroom as a kid. My kids shared a bedroom. It's not unusual.
loweexclamationpoint@reddit
Where I live a nice suburban house on a big lot is nearly always a big house. We wanted the first 2 plus a pool, had 5 bedrooms 4 bathrooms for 2 adults 1 kid. Joke in our neighborhood is almost everyone has more bathrooms than people to use them.
moonwalkinginlowes@reddit
I never had my own room. Only one of my friends did and it’s because they had a huge house.
Derwin0@reddit
My friends only got their own room if they happened to be the only boy or girl.
Was pretty common for same sex children to share a room.
PinkNinjaKitty@reddit
Hmm. Interesting question. My parents were well-to-do, but bought a modest house in a nice neighborhood, so 3 bedrooms, 2 baths, for a family with three kids. My brother had his own room and my sister and I shared. It worked well for my sister and I and we respected each other’s stuff and opinions. No problems there. Now in adulthood we’re roommates in our own house. We have our own rooms now for the first time in our lives, which is great, but I wouldn’t change the past.
I’m very close with my sister but not my brother. It’s not an age thing, since my brother is closer to me in age. In part I think it’s because out of necessity my sister and I had to learn to get along and when we got in fights, we resolved them and were closer as a result. And just sharing a space gives you opportunities to connect — she had nightmares, I comforted her; we talked, we shared Barbie and Littlest Pet Shop games set up with playsets sprawled across our room.
It’s not for everyone — siblings who hopelessly fight like cats and dogs probably should have their own rooms, and a cramped space would be uncomfortable and stressful. But it can be a better experience than a lot of people assume and can work for a lot of children.
Sharing a room was good, but I will add that not having enough privacy from our parents was not. For various reasons, there was an open-door policy. So our parents would rarely even knock. They were generally respectful, but it still sucked to have them suddenly intruding as we entered teenage-hood. At that age you need that mental separation from your parents.
Adorable_Dust3799@reddit
I'm a boomer. I was one of 5 kids in 3-4 bedrooms, depending on the house. My sister and i usually shared a room. I had one friend who was one of 7 kids in a 4 bedroom house. She literally moved into the hall closet for privacy. Worldwide when women are educated and have personal unlimited access to birth contol birthrates typically drop to near replacement rates. This happened in the US by the late 70s. Almost all our population increase is due to immigration and first generation families. Immigrants birth rate drops to replacement rate after that first generation. Lastly we have more habitable land than some arabic countries. Until the last 100 years or so farming was the main occupation, and there was plenty of room for kids to run. So you have several factors. Lower birth rate and available space are probably the 2 biggest.
BrazenDuck@reddit
I grew up in a large family and always shared a room. I liked it.
Derwin0@reddit
I hated shared a room with my brother and was happy when our sister moved out and he got her room.
But I don’t resent it as it was what it was. My parents had a 3-bedroom house and 3 kids, so of course the 2 boys would share.
EatFishKatie@reddit
I would say most educated younger Americans who don't heavily make religion their identity don't consider kids "blessings" they see kids as a punishment for having sex. Thats how pregnancy is treated in the US through political policy and corperations, outside of religion.
With that being said, there are plenty of christian faiths here in the US that do consider children as "blessings" and have members who have more kids than their means will allow. Mormons and traditional catholics are the two that come to mind for me. The parish I grew up in had families with 6-13 kids in a 2-3 bedroom houses. All of them were insanely impoverished and struggled. That was 20-30 years ago.
The two things that most likely factor into this cultural shift away from having kids in the US is due to policy and money. Women are losing autonomy over what happens to them when they have kids. They medically dont get a say in what happens to them, they are very likely now to die or be improssiones for pregnancy complications. Its more dangerous for women to have kids today than it was when their grandmothers had kids. Even with medical advances, barely anything has been done to improve women's health in the US. Women are treated like breeding livestock. Women are more likely to die in child birth than US soldiers are to be harmed in combat. Not to mention the leading cause of death for pregnant women is homicide. So even if the pregnancy doesnt kill you, so done else might kill you for being pregnant.
That being said, having a child is incredibly dangerous for barely any reward. Even if you want a kid, you have to work long hours to keep a roof over your head and food on the table because a majority of families here can't afford to have one partner stay home to raise their child. Growing up, I only knew one stay at home mom. She had to work side gigs and part-time jobs to make ends meet for the family. Its not very likely you'll get to be present for your kids. Women are also are very likely to lost their income or stagnate after having a kid, which is a death sentence in America due to inflation. Having a child means you will be in poverty here. Kids are a money pit if not a death sentence. There is next to nothing to help people in poverty here. You struggle and you die. Your kid dies too if they aren't taken from you and basically human trafficked in the fostercare system. This is being exasperated by all the public education cuts and medical cuts for pediatric care in the US. Many Americans are living in third world poverty conditions and hate their lives. When you have anxious and depressed citizens who are burdened with overwhelming costs and debt, you dont get kids.
SakaWreath@reddit
“How can we pack more poor people into tighter spaces!? We need worker drones damn it! Otherwise we might have to do an honest days labor for a dishonest days wage.” - terrified billionaires
PJ_lyrics@reddit
I (youngest) shared a room with my brother (middle child) until our oldest brother moved out. I was probably about 15 when he moved out and I got his room. We didn't mind sharing at all. It wasn't an issue at all to us.
I'd like to have enough kids where they'd have to share but I had my first child a bit later (mid 30). Then a second child 4 years later. I wanted a 3rd or maybe a 4th but my wife was like nah I'm way too old to be starting over with a baby lol.
My kids when younger had their own rooms but would sleep in the same room most nights. That has changed as they've got older (10 & 14).
Derwin0@reddit
I was the same way. Shared a bedroom with my younger brother until our older sister moved out.
weedtrek@reddit
America used to be more shared rooms and lots of kids, but that was often associated with poverty and struggling, so over the last couple of generations most people stopped having more kids than they could comfortably provide for. And as that became more common, the price of raising kids also increased substantially.
Derwin0@reddit
The average number of children dropping for 4 to 2 made it more common for children to have their own room.
Happy_Michigan@reddit
Yes, kids and people need their own space and hopefully to be recognized as an individual. It doesn't happen if there are too many kids and the main focus is just the very basic, food, clothing, shelter.
RedGutkaSpit@reddit
It’s because although Americans are very nice people and care for their children, they want kids to have more privacy, as American culture is big on individualism and being unique.
Derwin0@reddit
No, as parents don’t make those decisions based on children’s wants.
The reason is because most American homes a 3-bedroom and the average number of children is 2.
SuspiciousZombie788@reddit
It really depends on the family and the situation, especially the financial situation. Growing up, I usually had to share a room with at least one sibling. I had friends who had their own room (these friends often had more money or smaller families or both). I will say even in shared room situations in the U.S., parents will tend to avoid having boys and girls share rooms, especially past a certain age. But yes, privacy is highly valued in our culture, so even in shared rooms, kids will usually have their own space and own belongings to ensure some degree of privacy.
AdFinancial8924@reddit
I shared a room first with my older sister, then with my infant brother up until I was 11 then got my own room. Having my own room was definitely better. It was fun until I was about 6 and my sister got old enough to want her own room and not want to share with a little kid so she started bullying me and her friends would also bully me when they came over. So when my brother was born my dad made extra bedrooms in the basement and one of my sisters went down there, she got her own room and I had to share with my newborn brother which was also annoying because when he cried in the night I woke up too. Then my bedroom was off limits during his naps. Then when we got a bigger house I finally got my own room. It just doesn’t work out when kids are spread apart in age and personalities.
Derwin0@reddit
I shared a room with my brother until our older sister moved out. At that point he was moved into her bedroom.
Artistic_Alps_4794@reddit
Americans have smaller families today. 1 or 2 kids is the norm, and the average house has 3 or four bedrooms, so each kid will have their own room. In the past when families used to bigger, it was common for kids to share a room.
Derwin0@reddit
That’s always been my experience. 1 or 2 kids results in their own room. 3 or more means they’re usually sharing rooms.
Butterbean-queen@reddit
I don’t think that’s specifically a difference between Arab and American cultures. I’ve known Arab people here in the United States and the ones with money have homes with separate bedrooms for everyone and ones with less means have their children share bedrooms. That also tends to happen with people in America who can’t afford a larger house and have lots of kids. It’s not really cultural it’s economics.
253-build@reddit
The Arab culture you describe is how my white Catholic American grandparents raised my parents, aunts, and uncles. 4 kids to a large bedroom and 2 kids sharing a double bed was normal and mainstream. 1940s-1970s. (A 2nd cousin had a family of 12 in a 4 bedroom farmhouse.)
Some of my peers grew up this way, but it wasn't really mainstream anymore, although it was encouraged in the church. 1980s-1990s.
Artificial birth control is explicitly prohibited in the Catholic church. Go to any predominantly white Catholic church and tell me most families aren't using birth control.
Danibear285@reddit
Children being called “a blessing” is usually what breeders say
Bluemonogi@reddit
I grew up sharing a room with my older sister from birth to age 7-8 and age 11-15 years. From 5 or 6 years my family of 5 people lived in a 1 bedroom apartment. My parents slept in the living room on a fold out sofa. My brother slept in what was supposed to be a small storage room- he always got odd spaces like that but never had to share. My sister and I shared the 1 official bedroom. There was little privacy. It was hard to share a bedroom with a surly teenager and not really have anywhere to go where there wasn’t someone.
It didn’t matter as much when my sibling and I were very young. It was harder to share a bedroom when I got older. I value personal space and privacy a lot. As long as there are places to go without people in your face constantly I am fine sharing a room.
When my daughter was born she slept in our bedroom for about 9 months. Then she always had her own room. If we had had more kids she might have shared a room.
Derwin0@reddit
Most Americans don’t make sure kids have their own rooms. They do make sure there a separate rooms for the boys & girls though.
res06myi@reddit
Exactly. Many other cultures treat children like property, not sentient humans with their own thoughts and needs.
Danibear285@reddit
I dont know, im not in an arab culture. Thankfully.
joepierson123@reddit
We have bigger cheaper houses made out of wood
rockandroller@reddit
There's also a TON of SA in families and a lot of it has happened from room sharing - siblings, grandparents, you name it. I think giving kids their own room is a good trend.
78723@reddit
I know that many children in America share a room with a sibling. BUT, personally, growing up I knew NO ONE that had to share a room. It would have felt like child cruelty to me or any of my friends to not have our own rooms. I think kids deserve a space that is their own- to decorate with their interests, to have a place for their treasured belongings, to have a private place to safely express emotions.
I wouldn’t be surprised if people think I was spoiled for having this mindset, but I’ve always felt that if you don’t have the money to provide things like a room for each of your kids, then you need to have fewer kids. Personal space is right up there with food, medicine, and shelter as far as needs go, imo.
BookLuvr7@reddit
Arab culture was formed in the desert - an often harsh place where people learned to work closely together to survive. Personal space is viewed differently in many ways.
In the US, unless you're in a big city it's very spread out. Many things are big- tall and wide, from rooms to vehicles to buildings to people. My husband and my brother are both at least 6'3.
Also culturally our personal space is usually at least 2-3 feet (~60cm-91cm) apart for casual conversation, depending on circumstances and how well we know the person. That's roughly arms length apart. We feel very uncomfortable quickly when crowded closely together..
People in the US culturally highly value space and privacy. According to what I've read, it's one of the biggest cultural differences between Americans and people from different areas, and it's often one of the biggest unspoken adjustments people have to make when going back and forth.
jrhawk42@reddit
I don't really think so. It's not like you see well off Arab families sharing rooms when they have space. Same w/ American families if they don't have space they share rooms.
Overall it's always better to have your own space.
bankruptbusybee@reddit
I’m expecting your view of america has been influenced by media. Many American families have children sharing rooms
Also, a little weird that you equate having lots of kids as believing kids are a “blessing”, with the implication that if someone has only one or two kids they don’t believe they’re a blessing as well?
A single blessing may bring the same happiness to a person that would take ten for another to feel the same happiness.
StrengthFew9197@reddit
Personal space is so important.
Maronita2025@reddit
Yes, this is common in American culture. To answer your questions why is it different; it is because the cultures are very different.
I was one of eight children and technically we only had 3 bedrooms for the eight children and the parents. The master bedroom was for the 4 boys. My parents unit had an eat-in kitchen, parlor (tv room), and a sitting room. The sitting room (had no door) became my parents bedroom. My oldest sister got the tiny bedroom which was originally just a half bathroom (toilet and sink) turned into a bedroom. The other bedroom was for my sister a year younger and I. The eighth child there was no room for so for a few years she had to stay in the crib with the sides downs in my parents bedroom. The oldest boy then went to college and she moved into the "boys bedroom." Obviously she dressed in the bathroom. It was sometime before she could move out of the boys bedroom. Once my older sister went to college; I moved into her bedroom and my baby sister moved to bedroom that I vacated. We made things work.
The government (at least in my state) requires that opposite sex genders can not share a bedroom if they are over the age of eight. This specifically applies to those in government subsidized housing.
overZealousAzalea@reddit
We moved further out of town (25 minutes to 45 driving) so each of our five children could have had their own room. They still choose to share for sleeping through puberty. They sometimes wanted space, and quiet time. But all the rooms have two beds, so friends or siblings could sleep over. I think letting them have their own spaces encouraged them to spend time together because they wanted to.
hecticeclectic666@reddit
It's because in Arab culture essentially might is right. So if your the biggest, strongest chicken in the coop you can do whatever you want. As outrageous, controversial, and seemingly ignorant of me to say as that probably sounds it is true. Let me elaborate further. To quote an Ayah (a line from The Koran, which is the direct word of Allah though the writings of the Prophet Mohammed) "take whatever your right hand possesses". Which in the context of this part of the Koran refers to the taking of sex slaves. However, this is also extended and generally refers to, if it's in the name of Allah toward a non believer doing whatever you want so long as your strong enough to do it unless you've paid the Jizyah (A yearly tax that non Muslims within Muslim territory must pay for protection). Although this isn't supposed to extend to fellow Muslims, it often does in practice.....
Strong_Landscape_333@reddit
It was more common in the 1950s and 1960s.
A lot more people started using birth control and it basically makes you poor if you have like nine kids and actually try to raise them properly unless you have massive family support
Most couples unless rich or with family support will be working full time. That's already limiting the time you can spend with a kid
CatchMeIfYouCan09@reddit
Bedrooms are for sleeping.
That being said, as long as the individual kids have their own things and space to keep it; i don't necessarily see an issue with room sharing.
There's alot of poverty Americans that can't add bedrooms for each kid.
My kids shared while my son was an infant; after he started sleeping thru the night; they shared a space. They they got their own rooms when he was 1.
We sold the house and they shared a large bedroom together from 8-10yo for my oldest and 3-5yo for my youngest.
We now have the ability for then to have their own rooms again; we actually just moved last week.
Bedtime are for sleeping; they each had their own closet/ dressers. Shared a bathroom but had their own drawers and space. Toys and things were kept in another room so the bedrooms were literally used for sleeping or if my 10yo needed some time to herself.
cookingismything@reddit
My family is an immigrant family but we’ve been here for 46 years. My dad used to tell us it is better to it is better to have 1 child with shoes than 2 barefoot.
sandstonexray@reddit
This has very little to do with culture and everything to do with economic circumstances.
Particular-Coat-5892@reddit
I live in a one bedroom tiny hallway apartment with my husband. The people that live under us have the same floor plan. There are 2 adults and 3 kids. They actually have bunk beds in the living room the two older kids sleep in, I don't know how they do it. It definitely happens but it's usually because folls can't afford anything bigger. Not because it's the desired setup.
shoresy99@reddit
This is now because Americans have small families and big houses. When people were having 10 kids you had lots of kids sharing bedrooms. But with the typical family having two children then you have lots of room as almost all homes have at least three bedrooms.
HistoricalLoss1417@reddit
Children are not, and I cannot stress this enough, NOT a blessing.
Wam_2020@reddit
My husband is from Syria, and all his friends are Arab. They all embrace the American lifestyle. If anything they become more status image. They’re always chasing the bigger house, the best car, the most successful business. Humble, is not how I would describe Arab-Americans. Regardless, of the number of children. We have 3 children and somehow my husband fells were outgrowing our 4bedroom/3bath 3,000 sqft house.
HeartAccording5241@reddit
Ya in America genders can’t share a room at a certain age
briefadventure999@reddit
Having a lot of children isn't as common in the US compared to other countries as it can be very expensive to raise them.
moonchic333@reddit
Children are also viewed as blessings in American culture thus not piling them together in a room. When kids get a certain age they should be able to have privacy.
A lot of boomers were piled into rooms and it was at a time when predation went unchecked. When boomers grew up they gave their kids their own spaces probably because a lot of them were traumatized from things in their childhoods.
SabresBills69@reddit
children cost money.
in USA you don’t have social support systems like elsewhere around children . raising a child is very expensive so people don’t have kids.
a century ago people did have more children. currently new immigrants and those more religious tend to have more children.
dulcetsloth@reddit
the social support is a big thing and kind of overlooked often. many of us don't have a village.
AffectionateTaro3209@reddit
Here, children would generally only share a space if it weren't financially possible to give them their own space. We Americans absolutely love our personal space and privacy, generally we believe it's a right. I'm an only child and so is my daughter, so sharing space has never been something we've experienced.
Gaxxz@reddit
Faith. Religious families in the US tend to have more children also.
MatsudairaKD@reddit
Having grown up in a developing country and moving to the states in my early teens. Privacy and space are taken very seriously in the US. In a developed country like the US. Children are seen as financial liabilities to upward mobility. Upward mobility and success are tied to Having large, single family homes with ample room to raise a family in.
In the country where I was born. Children, particularly having lots of them, are considered financial assets whether you have ample room where you live to raise them or not. Children act as free labor to be used on the family farm or other business. Chances are, a few of them might go on to be successful enough to take care of you in your old age in lieu of living off of savings, a pension, or social security like in the states when you retire from the workforce.
Lornoth@reddit
Worth noting most states have some laws surrounding how many kids can be in one bedroom depending on age and gender etc. Not everybody follows them and they're largely unenforced but that is a factor as well.
Imaginary_Lock_1290@reddit
Families with lots of kids typically share rooms. I certainly did (5 of us). Smaller families with one or two kids will often have more space. America is just on average richer with fewer kids, which translates to more space per kid. All countries follow this trajectory: get richer => more space and fewer kids. then they create cultural justifications for this after the fact.
Apprehensive_Yard_14@reddit
We value privacy, so having a lot of people in one space is a nightmare for some of us.
on the legal side of things, CPS could legit get called in if there are too many kids in a small space. Some states require each kid to have their own bed. so while it's ok to share a room with parents, grandparents, and siblings, if there's multiple people in one bed, that will be an issue. Some apartments also will have limits on how many people are allowed to be in a living space.
TehNudel@reddit
This is really economic and not cultural. Grew up in America, in a house with 13 people. There were 4 adults and at any given point 1-2 of them weren't working. Apart from a few isolated years, I didn't have my own room. We didn't just share rooms, we shared beds. It wasn't because "children are a blessing". It was because my uncle thought "condoms ruin the sensation".
jenn363@reddit
Americans still consider their children to be blessings, and the most important thing in their lives. Spending huge amount of money and resources per child is normal. Parents often want to give each child a full private education, health care, lessons, camps, activities, clothing, and childcare that is hugely expensive. The cost of the house is negligible compared to the cost of raising a child in the US. Most Americans (not all) choose to have fewer children so they can spend more (both money and time) on each child, and consider it unfair to have more children than they can provide a high quality of life.
ATLien_3000@reddit
Mainly because Americans have personal space (our country is huge relative to our population) and Americans are (generally) wealthy enough to afford homes big enough to give each kid his/her own room.
Couple that with American society not really rewarding a family for having many kids; kids (generally) impose a cost on their families up until they're 22 (or so). Contrast that to other cultures where a kid is often expected to work/bring in income at an earlier point.
I'll also suggest this is much more practical than cultural; there are plenty of Arab immigrants to the US. They're not all living together in one room apartments/homes. Because like all Americans, they're pretty wealthy by global standards.
rawbface@reddit
I mean this is awful. It's a nightmare. Like having 20 kids and just tossing food scraps in the basement for them.
You have to realize that giving kids space to learn, grow, retreat, and express themselves is an advantage, right? It's clearly a good thing.
Not a single person on earth is going to tell you it's better to live in a crowded environment with no personal space.
ilovjedi@reddit
So I am unusual in that I have six kids. We adopted three older kids after being foster parents and we have a bonus kiddo who came to live with us at 18 who is/was in foster care. Our boys share a room. We have to biological children because I was pregnant twice.
Our two boys share a room. Two of the girls (the bonus kid and her friend) share a room.
We also think children are a blessing (we’re not religious) there are a fair number of religious people who do have large numbers of kids. (I used to watch 19 kids and Counting about the Duggars a family with 19 kids.)
But for the most part your average middle class family has fewer kids because there are high expectations for providing education and activities for kids and there’s not a lot of government support for kids. So it’s hard to feel like you can afford to give your kids all the educational activities they should have if you have a lot of them.
That’s part of why we were foster parents. The state helped pay for child care and activities for our older children before we adopted them and because they were in foster care we don’t have to pay for their health insurance.
Emotional_Bonus_934@reddit
Americans value privacy; my grandma shared a bed with her 2 sisters. Dad and siblings had their own rooms. When I was little I shared a room with my sister but at about 8 I got my own room.
Crankenberry@reddit
I think part of it might be simple logistics: the US is huge in geography and we have a lot more space than a lot more smaller countries. So we are more easily able to indulge our desire for personal space.
la-anah@reddit
In many areas of the US, not having enough space for your children is grounds for the government to take them away from you and put them in foster care.
paxrom2@reddit
Please cite your sources.
GWSIII@reddit
Pick a state lol. Criteria change
InfluenceTrue4121@reddit
I think living arrangements depend on family resources. I grew up in a blue collar household and we didn’t have much money. At some point, my mom, my two sisters and I all shared a one bedroom apartment. Fast forward to my adulthood. My three children all had separate bedrooms but had to share a bathroom. However, I have financial resources that my immigrant parents did not.
Lefaid@reddit
First, some Americans live like that exactly. Similar reasoning too.
And second, most Americans would say privacy is better. We are raised to value it.
yellowrose04@reddit
Some people do put two kids in one room but for the most part we prefer each kid to have their own room and space. I have a basement and my three kids have three bedrooms, a bathroom, a laundry room and a kitchen/ living room/ dining room kind of open space. So basically they could live in the basement and never come upstairs if they want.
cbrooks97@reddit
I have relatives with 9 kids; they have a boys' room and a girls' room. I made my 2 kids share a room until the older was 8 just on principle.
But some people are all about making sure everyone's happy and comfortable. And some just don't want to deal with kids fighting over "he touched my bed!"