Could A Citizen Commission Their Own SR-71?
Posted by twentiesforever@reddit | aviation | View on Reddit | 301 comments
Let's say a billionaire is a super fan of the SR-71. Could they commission a copy of the SR-71? I'd imagine coming up with the engines would be the hardest engineering challenge but the shape is well known. Could it theoretically be done? I want to think so
irisfailsafe@reddit
It would be a 20-30 billion project but sure, and it might take a decade at least.
Ok-Cryptographer7080@reddit
Boom aerospace is making a supersonic transport. It's not a individual, but it is a private entity. So it could probably be done if you have the money.
Left360s@reddit
from what I understand the fuel that it uses isn’t even made anymore. Also I believe to actually fly it takes off with a little fuel then get aerial refilled. Would be astronomically expensive probably cheaper to just r and d a new version of it.
Altruistic-Text-5769@reddit
It can take off with a full load of fuel but in order to inert the tanks on the ground required a process called yoyo fueling which involved basically filling the tanks with fuel, then pumping them back to essentially empty while filling the tanks with with nitrogen and then refill them. It was a heckin nightmare to do and was rarely ever done unless the plane needed a real good reason for it. It all comes down to inerting the tanks with nitrogen and i think its just simply easier to do at a higher altitude. I MAY NOT BE ENTIRELY CORRECT ON THE SPECIFICS, but its something close to this.
mothball10@reddit
What does inerting the tanks do/mean?
ncc81701@reddit
So you don’t have oxygen in the fuel tanks. If you do then as you drain the tanks you will get fuel vapor and oxygen. In that environment an electrical short or even static electricity can cause the tank to explode. This is what happens with the 747 on flight .TWA 800.
Mackey_Corp@reddit
You believe that line about the center fuel tank? Interesting.
CoastRegular@reddit
You believe conspiracy theories about missiles fired by George Soros' minions from Jeffrey Epstein's private yacht, or what? Oh, wait, it was really the Zionist Space Lasers, amirite?
Mackey_Corp@reddit
No just the hundreds of people that watched a missile streak through the sky and then impact the plane. My sister being one of those people. There’s tons of evidence out there to suggest it was a missile fired as part of a Navy weapons test that went horribly wrong. No big conspiracy, just an old fashioned cover up in an election year.
CoastRegular@reddit
Yeah, okay.
JerrytheK@reddit
Or an errant SAM hit it.
aviation-ModTeam@reddit
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Ragazzocolbass8@reddit
Didn't the tanks start leaking fuel below a certain altitude? They did on the ground. How did they prevent oxygen from getting in as the fuel leaked out?
mothball10@reddit
Thanks
Altruistic-Text-5769@reddit
So the air friction would heat the plane to temperatures that would cause regular fuel to combust inside the tanks, so it used a special fuel that could withstand higher temps but still that wasnt enough, so the tanks had to have any empty space not occupied by fuel, to be filled with nitrogen gas pressurized to 1.5psi above ambient pressure for whatever altitude it was at. On the ground that would be 16.2 psi for the nitrogen. At 25,000 feet, its avg refueling altitude, the nitrogen only needed to be at 7psi (atmospheric pressure at 25000 is 5.5 psi)
Having the tanks pressurized with nitrogen 1.5 psi above ambient would ensure no air could enter the tanks which meant there was no potential for autoignition of the fuel from the heat.
Sorry for the rambling response i got a brain injury and sometimes i got hard time with words n stuff
Luthais327@reddit
They also used the fuel to cool the skin of the airplane, adding even more heat.
JP7 fuel
wolframball@reddit
It was also used as the hydraulic fluid and lubricant. It was a special all in one fluid, not just fuel. There's no part of that plane that isn't fascinating.
The_Motarp@reddit
I think that pretty much any jet fuel will work as hydraulic fluid without need for additional modifications. RP1, the kerosene used in keralox rocket engines, is just regular jet fuel with tighter tolerances, and I know that is what is pumped to the hydraulics in the Falcon 9 rocket to operate the grid fins during reentry.
wolframball@reddit
In certain conditions any fluid can be used as a hydraulic fluid. In this case temperature is the main problem. RP1 would blow up in SR-71.
TheElRojo@reddit
Not to mention, this was all done before electronic calculators were really a thing. The amount of brains and grit that went into turning them into an actual thing is astounding.
EfficientEffort8241@reddit
Was it also the case that at room temp there were gaps in everything, to allow for expansion at speed? Thus fuel poured out on the ground.
Luthais327@reddit
Yes, there were gaps in everything but contrary to popular belief there weren't gaps in the fuel tanks.
The skin of the plane did all the expansion, up to 3 inches worth, and cooling the skin was the cause of the leaks.
Ru4pigsizedelephants@reddit
So it's not fuel leaking in the videos I've seen? Do you know what it is, if not fuel?
I've always found the whole thing fascinating.
Luthais327@reddit
It is fuel, it's just leaking from cooling passages, not the fuel tanks.
All the joints in the system don't seal until the airframe gets hot and expands at speed.
Ru4pigsizedelephants@reddit
Thank you.
I actually just spent the past hour watching the Animagraffs video on the SR71, so I understand a lot better how it works now.
That is the best YouTube channel ever created.
ttystikk@reddit
Yes.
cat_prophecy@reddit
Don't forget about the TEB that you need just to light the engines because JP-7 is so resistant to combustion.
ghgfghffghh@reddit
Which combusts when it comes in contact with air. Not really sure how you get your hands on that.
coopermf@reddit
Same stuff you light a Falcon 9's Merlin engine with. That's the famous green flash you see when they start engines. They also use the propellant (RP-1) as their hydraulic fluid in the thrust vector control actuators that steer engines
The_Motarp@reddit
I'm pretty sure I've seen that green flash when a few other keralox rocket engines start as well, so buying it is probably as simple as just knowing which chemical supply company to place the order with. You might need some permits of some sort too, but they wouldn't be difficult to get for a company that had a legitimate need for the stuff.
ttystikk@reddit
The fuel does not automatically combust. It has to get hot, just like diesel. Of course the plane gets plenty hot at speed, so precautions become essential.
ghgfghffghh@reddit
TEB- JP-7 fuel was used. It was difficult to ignite. To start the engines, triethylborane (TEB), which ignites on contact with air.
In the “design” section - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_SR-71_Blackbird
ttystikk@reddit
Ah. My mistake.
Altruistic-Text-5769@reddit
I actually totally did forget about that. 16 restarts per flight iirc. And they would have to light one afterburner halfway thru refueling cuz the engines on dry thrust couldnt support the weight after a certain point and they always used the same engine cuz only one of the cockpit windows was heated iirc. So they would light that side and apply oppo rudder and fly a bit sideways like in a crosswind landing
xxxams@reddit
Did you fly the blackbird ?
Altruistic-Text-5769@reddit
Oh heck no. I got epilepsy i cant fly anything at all sadly.
LinkedAg@reddit
Fascinating!!
There were so many innovations with this bird: I'm curious which challenges were thought of ahead of time and which were trial and error.
I guess there is a bit of both throughout the history of engineering.
Altruistic-Text-5769@reddit
Wait till you find out about the engine spikes and their linear movement system and how it was classified up until the 90s
LinkedAg@reddit
I actually worked in the building that the A-12 was designed in near Fort Worth. I heard it's been demolished since. Standard no windows, no cell service.
Stoxholm@reddit
Yea thanks man, share the knowledge!
protane_grobot@reddit
Thanks. I love that this was all theorised when designing it and then built. Humans are capable of some cool stuff, sometimes
beautifulkale124@reddit
I recently finished the skunkworks book that has a lot about the SR 71, it's absolutely nuts they literally made this thing.
spanieldors@reddit
Even with a brain injury your still smarter than me
Ru4pigsizedelephants@reddit
Not rambling at all, I really appreciate the explanation. I was going to ask the same question.
ThadCastleRules_G@reddit
This is so cool
chiarde@reddit
OK hats off to you for that great information. I never knew the amount of engineering that went into the fuel system. Mad respect for the brilliant people that designed, built and maintained this beautiful machine.
Altruistic-Text-5769@reddit
Seriously. Look up the engine spikes and their linear movement system. Classified up til the 90s. Jet engines cannot ingest supersonic airflow, so them spikes moved frowards and backwards continuously to tune the airflow into the engines and keep supersonic shockwaves from being ingested. It worked MOST of the time. Everyone once in a while there was something called an UNSTART which is when supersonic airflow would be ingested and the engine would crap out. This would result in an IMMEDIATE and VIOLENT yaw to the side of the unstarted engine. Requiring extremely fast reflexs to catch and recover from. I dont know the recovery procedure but id imagine it involves squirting the triethylborane (teb) afterburner starting fluid to restart the burner after proper airflow is restored to the unstarted engine
still_no_enh@reddit
That'd be the skunk works team at Lockheed...
Given the footage of the f35 falling out of the sky in Alaska after the pilot was on a conf call with Lockheed... Seems like some quality has been lost.
Nitrosoft1@reddit
Amazing stuff and can I just say how fucking badass the Blackbird is that it flew fast enough that heat from friction alone could auto ignite its own fuel. Fuckin legendary bird.
Ficsit-Incorporated@reddit
You, good sir/madam, are a gentleman/gentlewoman and a scholar. This made my day. Thank you!
moofie74@reddit
You wordsed real good.
pac4@reddit
That’s crazy
PrairieMadness@reddit
I learn so much here
Lactobeezor@reddit
Just wondering as the fuel burns and the nitrogen pressure goes down what is the process then? Brains are overrated look around. 😄
Altruistic-Text-5769@reddit
There are high pressure nitrogen bottles on board
yoho1234@reddit
You lost me at air friction
VisualReference@reddit
You should use PSIG and PSIA in this situation.
kevinh456@reddit
Legendary comment right here.
poop_frog@reddit
that's crazy the fuselage got that hot, thanks for the info dude cool to know
dayofdefeat_@reddit
No need to apologise, your brain works well! That's fascinating knowledge.
mothball10@reddit
Nice your allgood man thanks
amazinghl@reddit
It means to get rid of the oxygen in the tanks.
theboomvang@reddit
Technically the production aircraft could not take off with a full load. They held 80,000lbs of fuel but were limited to 65,000lbs for takeoff. The yoyo fueling happened on those missions (mostly to NK). Typically they departed with 45,000lbs and went to the tanker. Apparently the factory did test 80,000lb takeoffs in testing though.
greatlakesailors@reddit
Mildly amused that the fuel alone for the SR-71 weighs more than a fully laden, fully fueled CRJ-700 (probably the closest civilian plane in terms of overall dimensions and volumes). That thing was HEAVY.
Also amused that it can hit mach 3.3 with only 2.6x more power than the CRJ despite being 2.3x heavier. Amazing what the thin air at altitude will do to your drag levels....
GGCRX@reddit
If you've ever seen one in person, the Blackbird was huge. If you haven't, go see one. Wherever you have to go to do it, it's worth the trip.
TaskForceCausality@reddit
But in the humble CRJs defense, it operates on normal fuel, can be flown multiple times in a single day, and children can ride aboard.
Long_Pomegranate2469@reddit
And you can take a shit on a toilet and not in your flight suit.
ManifestDestinysChld@reddit
Those child-size SR-71 flight suits were a bitch to get to seal properly anyway
IM_REFUELING@reddit
Top speed past Mach 0.95 or so is more a function of inlet design as opposed to thrust (though tons of thrust helps too, just ask the F-4). That's why for high Mach aircraft you see variable inlet geometry (see SR-71, F-15, MiG-31) or complicated inlet door systems (Concorde, also SR-71).
Silly_Primary_3393@reddit
Since were talking about hypotheticals with a rich person….I don’t think the inert‘ing of the fuel tanks would be much of an issue these days. After the SR-71 came out, Lockheed did the C-5 with liquid nitrogen for inert’ing that was service on the ground after after every few flights…McDonnell Douglas used an OnBoard Inert Gas Generating System (OBBIGS) with the C-17 that used bleed air and no ground servicing (though it could be serviced on the ground in event of equipment failure) and now Boeing with a 2d gen OBBIGS on the KC-46.
Altruistic-Text-5769@reddit
The thing about science is that it doesnt require your beliefs or care about what you think. And none of the planes you mentioned go anywhere fast enough to generate the air friction needed to heat the fuel tanks to dangerous levels. If the sr71 flew today, it would absolutely need to inert the tanks
Silly_Primary_3393@reddit
I think you misunderstood my post…it was about how fuel tank inerting is not such a challenge as it was back in 1964. The DoD footed the bill for early inerting technologies going back to late 60s, and the concept is now so fully developed that all new type certified Part 121 commercial aircraft are required to have some type of fuel inerting system (OBIGGS).
I’ve only ever encountered liquid nitrogen (one huge arse pain cuz its so cold -320F) and gases nitrogen with these systems, though i guess other inert gases could be used albeit more costly. Side note, the engineers really like the secondary impact of having nitrogen in the ullage, for without oxygen there’s a lot less corrosion than happens in the tank.
Altruistic-Text-5769@reddit
Sorry totally did. My bad. I was totally ignorant of that. Its actually super awesome tbh. I do apologize for my iditoic response
The__Chemist@reddit
Hey, good catch and appreciate your honest apology here. Loved this thread specifically because of the knowledge you dropped above. Thanks
No-Asparagus-5759@reddit
Same! You rock Altruistic-text-5769
braided--asshair@reddit
The B737 does this, but it just uses a nitrogen generator to displace the fuel in flight.
TravelingShepherd@reddit
This isnt completely correct - the bigger issue for the 71 was the weight and T/O performance.
With a full bag of fuel it was overweight for the landing gear, and they didnt put that strain of the ground system. Additionally, the T/O performance was severely limited at that weight - so it was easier to partially fill it and then aerial refuel.
avar@reddit
So pump some fuel and gases back and forth, how isn't that comparatively trivial?
Isn't the reason the AF didn't do that rather that taking off heavy would increase stress on the aircraft, and if you already have a tanker fleet and most missions require refueling several times anyway the additional cost/complexity isn't that great?
piersonpuppeteer1970@reddit
While you're wholly correct, there are private companies that do aerial refuelling. Look up Omega and Metrea to start
DudleyAndStephens@reddit
Because they used unique fuel the SR-71 couldn't use regular tanker planes. There was a special version called the KC-135Q which could handle JP-7.
SPANISH_INQUISITI0N@reddit
A standard KC-10 could also do it.
It was a long process for maintenance, but simply just an isolation switch on the fuel panel to stop us from accidentally transferring it into the main tanks.
DudleyAndStephens@reddit
TIL!
silver-orange@reddit
If anyone's curious the special thing about the KC-135Q/T was just that it separated its own fuel from its fuel payload. I guess in the other 135s all tanks can potentially mix.
Fool-Frame@reddit
I mean with enough money you could retrofit a tanker for JP7. That’s a much easier engineering challenge compared to actually building an SR-71 or probably even blending the fuel itself.
mastah-yoda@reddit
While SR71 is indeed that aircraft, any flight of that particular aircraft must be accompanied by an external fuel tank, i.e. a tanker aircraft.
For all intents and purposes, the SR71 cannot fly without a tanker.
Baron_VonLongSchlong@reddit
What about Bezos money? if you had that then are there any legal obstacles?
TheElRojo@reddit
I mean, with enough money, nearly anything is possible.
But at a billion in today’s dollars per plane, not factoring in r&d costs to modernize, you’d turn Bezos into a humble millionaire pretty quick. I would think, anyway.
The_Motarp@reddit
It is known that Bezos spent quite a few years selling a billion dollars worth of Amazon stock per year and putting the money into Blue Origin. In the last few years they have been ramping up their activity with engine sales to United Launch Alliance and launches of their own New Glenn rocket, and Bezos has taken a closer interest in actively running Blue Origin, so it is likely that he is pumping even more money than that into it now.
Baron_VonLongSchlong@reddit
His pud rockets aren’t cheap, but he’d be way cooler if he had an SR-71 or a woolly mammoth.
Redebo@reddit
Seriously. Let the other billionaire have the space shit and build an SR71 and clone a mammoth Bezos!!!
Baron_VonLongSchlong@reddit
He’s the shittiest super villain ever.
Redebo@reddit
Like does he even enslave an abnormally sized population of orange-tinted humans? This is table stakes stuff for the billionaire club.
TheElRojo@reddit
How do you think Amazon warehouses work? /s
Sneaky-sneaksy@reddit
Not to mention it leaks on the ground due to the titanium construction. Its expands and tightens up as it heats up in flight
flyguy60000@reddit
Lockheed was ordered to destroy all the tooling for the SR-71…..so it’s doubtful you are going to be able to “order” one. Plus the guys who knew how to build one and service are pretty much gone. So - no.
antariusz@reddit
Just buy your own refinery, why not…
ForeignWeb8992@reddit
Fuel and engine oil.
hbomb57@reddit
Well to answer ops question thats the answer anyways. All the drawing are owned by the gov and Lockheed so you'd have to make your own anyways. Not to mention classified.
IM_REFUELING@reddit
I want to say that the U-2 still uses JP-7, since it was formulated for high altitude use. Could definitely be wrong though
OneLorgeHorseyDog@reddit
From what I can tell, the U-2 used a fuel called JPTS developed for that application. JP-7 is different. I can’t tell for sure what it uses in the F118s today, but for what it’s worth, the B-2 uses the a version of the same engine and runs on JP-8 per Google.
Traditional_Pie_8447@reddit
The U2 does not use JP-7
OnlineParacosm@reddit
So I’m just hearing we need to also commission a refueling plane
SpaceCadetEdelman@reddit
BOOM shakalaka..
ArcusInTenebris@reddit
Aerial refueling is needed. I remember reading that the tolerances of a lot of the aircraft is pretty loose on the ground, as it needs to account for airframe heating and expansion at high speeds. One of the concessions is that it leaks fuel on the ground and at low speeds.
Bad_Karma19@reddit
JP-7 was all used up, but it could fly on JP-4 and JP-5.
JagerofHunters@reddit
The actually set up a Blackbird engine on a stand at Edwards and burned all the fuel that was left to make sure it didn’t fall into the wrong hands
GlitteringHousing3@reddit
I remember reading somewhere that a couple million pounds was bought and delivered to Edward's sometime in the last 20 years. It caused a ton of speculation. Could have been bs though can't remember where I saw it
HumpyPocock@reddit
RE that sort of volume \< shrug> however the JT11D-20 aka J58 is not the sole engine that can burn JP-7 nor is the Blackbird / J58 combo only airframe that had a requirement for its high thermal stability, low coking, low varnishing, etc.
For example — Hypersonic Explodeybois
aka Hypersonic Cruise Missiles plus related R&D and Tech Demonstrators and T&E and whatnot done thru DARPA, AFRL, DTSG, MFrs, et al
eg X-51A WaveRider ⟶ refer Edwards c2010
…George Thum, Pratt & Whitney Rocketdyne X-51 program manager, said the key technical challenge for X-51 has been integrating a fuel-cooled scramjet, where the JP-7 fuel runs through the walls of the engine, cooling it in flight, into a compact flight vehicle capable of hypersonic flight … X-51's fuel-cooled engine design serves to both heat the JP-7 to an optimum combustion temperature and help the engine itself endure extremely high operating temperatures during the long burn…
PS — the progenitor to the SJY61 (ie. the SJX61) also ran on JP-7 and it must be remembered that they’ll require fuel for testing during research and development etc hence JP-7 usage (in totality) will be higher than the handful of test flights might imply, oh and here's the SJY61-2 in a hypersonic wind tunnel…
ALT title — aerothermodynamics go BRRRRR
prancing_moose@reddit
The problem with that is that you’d essentially need a KC-135Q tanker to go along with your SR-71 replica. Those will be hard to come by as they were all converted back into normal tankers (KC-135T) and are still in use with the USAF. Well some of them are anyways. Also they don’t really do yard sales. 😄
Awkward-Feature9333@reddit
You'd need a tanker for range, but not necessarily a KC-135T. Adapting the tanker to JP-7 isn't that hard, especially compared with building the SR-71 and brewing the JP-7.
Bad_Karma19@reddit
It can fly on JP4 and JP5. It was speed restricted with that gas.
AlexisFR@reddit
Yeah, at this point just make the SR-72 for real, it'll be easier.
aneristix@reddit
aw my mom worked on the radar guidance systems for these back in the day. she said it was wicked scary and she had an MP chaperone with a loaded M4 two feet away from her at all times while she was close enough to have her hands on the article.
real weird plane.
Strange-Image-5690@reddit
M4's didn't exist in the 1950's when these SR-71's were designed and built! That would have been M14 or M16a rifles with the MP's!
Meh!
P.S. Unless your Mom worked on "The Green Lady" (1996) or "Spearfisher" (2006) which are STILL secret but flying today! I have a WIDE SHOT of the Green Lady photo on my wall while it was flying high off the coast of the Koreas at about FL1050 --- I was the one who TOOK the photo and we weren't flying a Green Lady OR a Spearfisher precursor/prototype! Take that HOW you will!
V
aneristix@reddit
it's uh basically a spaceship but that's the most autistic i'll get about it here but my DMs are open.
theeaglejax@reddit
Short answer is no. Longer answer is still no. The tooling was destroyed. The people that built them are all dead. Most of the flight crews and maintainers are dead or damn near it. I doubt there is a single complete set of plans. Each one was custom. In magical make up land you could in theory steal one from a museum and spend 10+ years figuring out how to non destructively disassemble and measure everything. Then a lot of testing to confirm exact alloys used. RAM? Good luck. JP-7 not happening. Then if you in the next 10yrs were able to copy and assemble it. There's still fuel. And airborne refueling. Airborne refueling of the sr71 was extremely difficult. Flying it at near stall and the fueler at max speed is damn near magic on its own. Then there is the question of air space control. Not likely to have a good time with that. TBH if a person was dead set and money was no object then you'd buy an existing unit and refresh it but that leads to same issues listed above.
Strange-Image-5690@reddit
LOL! Ha! I would rather use my OWN designs and build that since mine WAAAAAAY outclass the SR-71 plus I can make it a LOT cheaper and a LOT faster! My designs obliterate "The Green Lady" and even Spearfisher in top speed since I have subsonic-capable turbo-jets AND hypersonic scramjets on-board plus I can fly waaaaay higher!
The SR-71's MAX possible FL13500 is too low for us! We be flying at 150,000 to 300,000 feet on our home-built gear! Plus JP7 is sooooooo outdated when 600 PSI propane with an oxidiser works GREAT, is a LOT CHEAPER and is waaaay easier to manage!
And 6061 or 7075-T6 Aluminum for the hull is a LOT cheaper and easier to process/form/cut/weld than Titanium. If we want stealth, a one inch thick carbon-nano-ball-infused Line-X truck bed liner outer hull coating with deep 4x4 truck M/T off-road tire tread patterns hot-stamped on the outside will take care of 1 GHz to 120 GHz Radars as an inexpensive but high-performing RAM-coating and radar baffle/signals-trapping system.
The Line-X is also a LOT cheaper, much more durable and way more weather resistant than the B2/F117a RAM coatings AND the 4x4 M/T off-road tire tread patterns stamped into the outer hull Line-X coating create rough boundary layers that will suck and stick a smooth and FAST laminar airflow to the outer hull increasing speed while minimizing aerodynamic heating!
V
theeaglejax@reddit
That's fantastic
Freak_Engineer@reddit
An example on airspace control: In some countries, supersonic flight is outlawed during peace time. Here in Germany, for example, jets can only go supersonic if they are military jets en route to an interception. No exceptions. Even Concorde had to fly subsonic back then. So, OP would be stuck with the equivalent of a Bughatti Veryron limited to 30kph...
The_Motarp@reddit
If someone was willing to spend a couple billion dollars to make a reasonably accurate SR-71 replica, they would just keep it parked somewhere that they could easily fly it out into international airspace over the ocean and go whatever speed they wanted.
SRM_Thornfoot@reddit
If the Chinese are not flying around in a knockoff, I'm guessing it would be a lot harder to do than it seems. I'm sure you could design and build an airplane, maybe even a supersonic plane, (ask Boom technologies how easy that has been) but not at the performance level of the SR71.
piersonpuppeteer1970@reddit
Chinese have access to cheaper, easier, better satellites and intelligence agencies.
Borgmeister@reddit
This isn't really known for sure - in terms of absolute resolution nothing is known to exceed the Kennen/Crystal/Keyhole series (and evolutions). The Chinese possess a potentially greater constellation of lower resolution satellites, but as mirror size is the ultimate determining factor on resolution, it would need to be established with certainty they've an asset with a mirror greater than 2.4m in diameter.
The U2 affords, allied with Keyhole, pretty much all the advantages of reconnaissance without the extreme costs and hazards associated with the SR-71 I agree.
Strange-Image-5690@reddit
Uhmmmmm! We can EASILY design and engineer, out of pure quartz some prime OR zoom lenses that can be stuck on a pro-level Canon R5 Mk2 camera that gets you 8192 by 4320 pixels of VIDEO and 45 megapixels still photo resolution with a GROUND resolution of 10 cm (4 inches) per pixel AND we can even take it down BELOW the optical limit to 5 cm (2 inches) per pixel using DSP to take care of and correct for heat and rain shimmer, scintillation, orbital-path/in-flight jitter AND use those fancy raytracing and light-bending/refraction/diffraction reconstruction algorithms to get that 2 inches per pixel or even better so we can read magazine headlines from near space!
V
bonkers-joeMama@reddit
This man speaking facts tbh. It's all about cost and efficiency at the end of the day. SR-71 just got overtaken by modern satellites and all the stuff chinese appliances hear in America goes back to chinese servers.
Andy802@reddit
The real reason is that the SR-71 can't fly fast enough to justify bringing it back into service. At the time, it could out fly incoming missiles, so the speed was how it allowed the US to spy over the USSR during the cold war. By the time they had a radar lock and fired, there was no way the missile would be able to intercept the aircraft. Nowadays, this is not the case, so the additional speed over current aircraft isn't enough to provide an advantage.
ja89028@reddit
I know it’s hard but I’ve been pretty discouraged by the boom technologies stuff. I hope something will come about in my lifetime that isn’t military to go supersonic
niamulsmh@reddit
i mean if you were batman, you could just build one.. you have the tech
Strange-Image-5690@reddit
Actually! DON'T try to copy the SR-71! It totally SUCKS as a high speed planform! Try the 1996-era "The Green Lady" design or the 2006-era "Spearfisher" design! ...OR... you can build your own delta-planform hull that is quite inexpensive to make!
I costed it out and I can build a complete long and narrow Delta planform Monocoque Hull out of 6061 Aluminum (or 7075-T6 Aluminum if i'm feeling frisky engineering-wise!) with a smooth outer hull finish and a super-strong honeycomb interior hull pattern using a polished surface concrete hot-stamp mold all for less than $350,000 USD in material costs!
After you pressure-stamp the concrete positive and negative moldings into the heated Aluminum, you can then heat treat and chemically treat the hull for maximum strength and corrosion resistance.
Afterwards, just hot-spray a thick aluminum oxide ceramic (Ceram or Vitric) on the surface to guard against aerodynamic heating and get better weather resistance. The honeycomb hull interior gets sprayed with a super-thick 10 mm coat of high heat resistant Line-X truck bed liner (i.e. carbon-or tungsten-nano-ball-infused polyurethane truck bed coating!) for added strength.
For the engines, I would CNC machine a couple 4 cubic metre blocks of Grade-6 Titanium and put in twin Scramjets and Turbojets with extra thick compressor blades to get me past 20,000 KMH (12,000 MPH). For fuel, I would simply use 600 PSI Propane in a titanium pressure vessel tank and an Oxidizer for high-flight above 150,000 feet (45720 metres).
For Cameras, I would buy 30 of the Canon R5 V2 cameras with 8192x4320 pixel resolution video and 45 megapixel still photos and simply put on some R-mount-adapted 150mm to 600 mm Sigma Sports Zoom lenses, some Canon 800 mm lenses all with user-selectable 2x, 3x and 4x extenders and a few 50 mm, 85 mm and 135 mm prime lenses for optical focal length variety with all mounted on an active-shocks-based six-axis gyroscopic camera stabilization mounts pointing out in EVERY direction front, back, left, right, up, down, angled, etc. in stereoscopic mode (i.e. 3D video and photos) via ultra-strong transparent Aluminum Oxide ceramic glass portholes cut out of the hull and let the SOFTWARE do the water-vapour, heat-shimmer and scintillation compensation using high-end DSP (Digital Signal Process Algorithms) that I literally coded all myself that is WAAAAAY beyond what the NSA has! -- I can EASILY get 10 cm per pixel (4 inches!) and even BELOW the optical limit by using various raytracing techniques to a VIDEO and STILL PHOTO resolution of 5 cm (2 inches!) per pixel!
And all the above camera gear would be less than $500,000! So for about $900,000 USD worth of metal parts, cameras, lenses and propane fuel I could go WAAAAAAAAAY PAST the SR-71 in both aeronautical performance but also video and still imaging performance! (i.e. i can also do this with just a few of my buddies and I would STILL be able to pay them a workday stipend in Tomahawk Steaks, BBQ Potatoes and Corn on the Cob, Craft Beer, 25 year old Whiskey, Vintage Port Wine, Fishing Trips and personal recognition!
V
Strange-Image-5690@reddit
And NO it wouldn't cost a few billion or even a $100 Million USD --- I've already received my quotes for the 6061/7075-T6 Aluminum plate and Grade-5 Titanium and that was less than $350,000!
And I already HAVE the design for a long and narrow Delta-planform hypersonic aircraft as a 140 foot long (40+ metres) aircraft already aerodynamically, plasmadynamically and hydrodynamically simulated on a few GPU cards along with tensile, compressive, torsion, flexion, extension and other structural/mechanical engineering tests and simulations done already AND I already long-ago did the design of my 70,000 Lbs of thrust turbojets that run on Propane and Oxidiser AND i long-ago did a Scramjet design that I had already tweaked on the same gamer-class GPU cards which I did for free! So there is no cost there and all that took less than a year to design and simulate a few years back!
The only cost is the workers (i.e. my buddies) and some food, drink and pre-paid fishing trips to make it physically real and the costs of my CNC machine tooling and electricity costs. The hull is a full monocoque hot stamped in a ceramic-lined concrete mold which costs barely $75,000 to make in materials cost!
It's a GOOD IDEA to be a multi-millionaire but it's NOT totally necessary!
ANYWAYS, my design would STILL waaaaaaaaaaay outperform the SR-71 --- Only the still-secret Spearfisher goes faster than my design!
Strange-Image-5690@reddit
P.S. to cool the skin of the delta planform, I would add continuous-flow thermal transfer fluid-based cooling pads to every part of the hull. You can use Silicone Oil or various BASF or 3M thermal transfer fluids that move heat from the inner-hull thermal pads into an inside-of-hull-installed carbide ceramic block heat sink similar to the heat tiles used on the 1990's-era space shuttle that is only 6 cubic metres in size.
It only needs to work for a few hours to KEEP the heat INSIDE the ceramic block and when on the ground can have that internal heat be released in an fast active-cooling manner! You can even cool the cameras in the same manner to get better Monochrome, RGB, IR thermal, UV, XRAY and Gamma-ray imagery for my multi-spectral camera modes!
rastarn@reddit
If you had enough money, sure. However, you'd need to build it bespoke/from scratch, as the original jigs were scrapped.
Personally, I'd go for the A-12 over the SR-71.
BabiesatemydingoNSW@reddit
With enough money thrown at it anything is possible. But in a practical sense this would be damn near impossible. As a thought exercise however one could build a replica with lower thrust engines like GE's F110 (because running J58s aren't available) which would solve the problem of skin heating from flight at M3. This would mean you could build it out of aluminum and not titanium alloys and also wouldn't need JP7 fuel to keep the thing cool. Bonus!
Such a notional jet might even be powered by Pratt F135 engines if you could convince the USAF and Pratt to sell them to you (good luck). The interesting part here is that the F-135 produces much more thrust with the burner lit than the original Pratt J58 did. So if you could power this aircraft with the F-135 it could conceivably go faster than the Blackbird but then you'd have to engineer a complex inlet vane system like the SR-71 had and the F-135 may not be compatible with that kind of setup.
Bottom line, If you want your own flying full-scale SR-71 it's going to be an aluminum bodied, F-110 powered Mach 2 aircraft so just be happy with that. And please take it to air shows because I REALLY want to see it.
gavs10308@reddit
Would it be more plausible to build an airframe the same shape and aesthetics of a true sr71 but packed with off the shelf tech and baddest jet engines avaliable that fit and end up with 30-50% of performance?
PioneerDingus@reddit
Someone tried if I recall correctly but the powers that be quickly put the kibosh on it.
Isord@reddit
Yeah everybody is saying you can but I'd be extremely surprised if a large chunks of it aren't still classified.
Andy802@reddit
If you can leave it fully intact in a museum with a security guard with a radio and flashlight all night, there's nothing classified about the aircraft.
Isord@reddit
Usually there is a ton of shit stripped out of museum aircraft. I know for a fact aspects of the B-2 are still classified despite being on display for example.
Lv_InSaNe_vL@reddit
And F-117s (or any other derivatives) are stripped of their paint and radar absorbent materials before they are given to museums. The ones you can see are just sheet metal and black paint.
hibryd@reddit
This is why the Smithsonian doesn’t have an F-117. They want a fully authentic aircraft with the original everything, and the Air Force is not going to comply.
Competitive_Falcon22@reddit
There is only one on display and it wasn't a production airframe. It also has tons of stuff stripped and is missing the coating on the outside. It is also in the USAF museum so it is very much under the control of the USAF.
You are correct for other aircraft though. If you lookup pictures of how the F117s are delivered to museums... you can't even recognize them.
aqaba_is_over_there@reddit
It never flew, had engines, avionics, or stealth coatings. It was just an airframe used for structural testing.
Thom_Basil@reddit
After I posted some pics from Wings Over Whiteman last summer, a user claiming to be the pilot of the B-2 demo messaged me saying he was thinking about getting one of the pictures framed and asked that I send him "any and all" B-2 pics I took that day, in their highest resolution. Maybe it was actually genuine but I can't help but think it was someone from the AF/DOD wanting to see if people captured classified aspects of the plane or something like that.
Andy802@reddit
The B2 is still in service though. The last flight of the SR71 was in 1999 I believe. Almost nothing remains classified after 30 years simply because of new technology, so I highly doubt there’s still anything that could be classified even if nothing was removed. Absolutely agree that some aircraft do have things removed in order to leave them in museums, I just doubt that’s the case here.
mikki1time@reddit
With enough money nothing is impossible
Lionheart-Q@reddit
Fascinating Engineering.
arizona-lad@reddit
Believe I read someplace that while it was in service, it cost about $6 million a year just to maintain each one in flyable condition. Can’t image what it would cost to build it from titanium, have a petroleum company gear up to manufacture a fuel that is used on no other plane on earth, and also maintain a fleet of exclusive tankers at points around the earth.
OneLorgeHorseyDog@reddit
It seems to me that if you’re gonna commission one, you might as well have it commissioned with a modern engine that can use a less obscure fuel type.
Fluffy-Map-5998@reddit
no you cannot,
OneLorgeHorseyDog@reddit
?????
dr_stre@reddit
You can’t just use any fuel if you’re going to fly an actual SR-71. It was special fuel to prevent it from combusting within the fuel tank at high temps due to friction with the airplane skin…which it also served as a coolant for. And it was also the hydraulic fluid for the hydraulic systems on the plane. It was one of a kind fuel for a one of a kind purpose, and without it the airplane isn’t going to fly (at least not without crashing).
OneLorgeHorseyDog@reddit
I hardly see how that’s a roadblock. If you’re creating a replica, you might as well smooth out the worst rough edges, like esoteric fuel requirements.
dr_stre@reddit
Then you’re no longer flying an SR-71, because the design will absolutely have to be changed to accommodate a different fuel type. You’re now just developing a whole new aircraft.
OneLorgeHorseyDog@reddit
I suppose it’s a bit of a ship of Theseus situation, yeah. I guess I just feel like it’s silly to go to all that effort and expense just to bake in the same logistical limitations from 70 years ago.
Fluffy-Map-5998@reddit
It's not ship of theseus, it's replacing theseus Greek trireme with a viking Longshot, do they look kinda similar, maybe, are they made our of wood, yes, are they at all the same, no
dr_stre@reddit
It’s not a ship of Theseus situation. The design of the final ship is still the same as the design of the original ship, it’s just that all the pieces have been replaced. That’s not the case for the blackbird. You’d have to fundamentally change the design of the aircraft in order to accommodate a new fuel type. Complete new engine design, which would almost certainly impact performance significantly. You’d likely need to rethink the fuel tank situation, since the fuel was stored in the space underneath the skin of the airplane and if you’re not gonna have special fuel then you need to get it away from the hot skin, which means you now need to address heat buildup on the skin in a different manner too.
Fluffy-Map-5998@reddit
The fuel for the SR71 has several unique properties that are needed by the SR71, 1 it is incredibly hard to ignite(good because it leaks when the plane is on the ground) and the plane gets incredibly hot at speed and 2 it also acts as a lubricant/coolant for the important systems,
OneLorgeHorseyDog@reddit
I get all that, but we’re talking about commissioning a plane in 2025. Why wouldn’t they engineer a solution to those problems using modern materials and techniques? If you’re spending billions on a weird project like this, what’s a few more bucks?
Fluffy-Map-5998@reddit
because at that point its an entirely new plane, in order to make those changes you need to change the design so radically your better off designing a new plane from the ground up, and theres not really much modern materials can do, for something lightweight, but stronger than aluminum titaniums the best choice, and a lot of the SR-71s design quirks are because it needed to use titanium in its construction, and for the techniques well, nobody has actually designed something to go this fast since the Valkyrie which used much of the same techniques as the blackbird, in order to get more modern techniques your basically going to need to fund an entirely new SR-71 program, because your designing an entirely new plane,
notsurwhybutimhere@reddit
Would be quite a bit more than $6m /yr. In modern dollars it’s the equivalent of several hundred thousand dollars / flight hour and pretty much everything is custom. Seems they flew them $100/yr. Expensive fuel but surely a massive chunk of the hourly cost is maintenance
GGCRX@reddit
Plus a lot of that maintenance was done by people on military salaries. Your private Blackbird maintenance crew is going to demand wages higher than an F1 team. ;)
notsurwhybutimhere@reddit
Interestingly most F1 engineer salaries aren’t that great according to the two people I know who used to to work it. Loads of fun if you’re into racing though :)
GGCRX@reddit
Not by engineering standards, but there aren't a whole lot of enlisteds pulling down $100k.
That plane was maintained by people making peanuts. Imagine what the bill would be if you had to pay them closer to what they're worth.
anactualspacecadet@reddit
It would probably cost a couple billion but yeah
dolphin160@reddit
I'd say probably more than a couple considering the tooling, materials, producing JP-7 again, producing the special tires with silver in them, the air carts, suits for the pilots etc.
ChairDippedInGold@reddit
Silver tires? No wonder this was over budget /s. One of my favorite planes and I learned something new today!
dolphin160@reddit
Sorry, they actually had aluminum power baked in them to help with temps. Just had a silver color!
rkmvca@reddit
For better heat conduction?
GGCRX@reddit
It was powdered aluminum, not silver, but yeah. It landed so fast that normal tires would have caught fire.
dolphin160@reddit
Ah yeah, thanks was kinda just going off the top of my head.
jk01@reddit
I mean LockMart 100% still has that tooling somewhere.
Thom_Basil@reddit
Government orders the manufacturers to destroy the tooling when production ends.
Still_Detail_4285@reddit
I can confirm because a friend supplies tools to LM. Each human gets unique tools and they are destroyed when the person is done working or the project finishes. They do not leave anything behind.
theluckyduckkid@reddit
Well that’s not true at all. But that is a good story
jk01@reddit
Huh, interesting.
anactualspacecadet@reddit
Well i imagine it doesn’t have to be the same engine, just an equivalent engine
Xalethesniper@reddit
It would take restarting a project that cost 300mil annually in 80s money. IIRC, the usaf considered restarting it after the gulf war but didn’t due to cost concerns
Cake-Over@reddit
A-12 would be easier. One less seat to worry about.
rnolan20@reddit
Did Howard Hughes post this?
twentiesforever@reddit (OP)
Lmao
DrowningKrown@reddit
Is this a joke to get us all to realize the extent of how much money the US taxpayer foots for these kinds of projects? Because it works.
twentiesforever@reddit (OP)
Good point
cofffeeismypoison@reddit
If you look at the bezos space project, yes you could.
GGCRX@reddit
Rockets are easier than the SR71. For one thing, once you get your rocket to orbit you can turn the engine off.
Dangerous_Mud4749@reddit
I don't think even a billionaire could afford to build an SR71. The engines alone would be a billion dollars these days, with the one-of-a-kind components.
A billionaire could probably just barely afford to operate a second hand model - a retired USAF example. I would imagine the running costs would be six or seven figures per hour, and on top you'd be a paying a team of staff to maintain it and train you, the billionaire, to fly it.
Without air-to-air refuelling (which only the military can do), you'd not have much time to have fun with it either.
-burnr-@reddit
"Without air-to-air refuelling (which only the military can do)..."
"Am I a joke to you?" Omega Tanker probably
Dangerous_Mud4749@reddit
I thought they are strictly a military contractor. Not aware of anyone offering those services to civilian pilots. Thinking of the insurance costs....
Junior-Marketing-167@reddit
This guy might be the billionaire in question
Rofocal02@reddit
The successor, the ST-72 is in development and looks like an abomination.
gs722@reddit
You could commission a plane that looks like it with reduced functionality, but for a like for like copy it would be practically impossible given how a lot of its technology is now considered antiquated.
insley1085@reddit
Is that Pima?
Baron_Ultimax@reddit
There are several companys working to develop new ramjet engines for the purpose of building supersonic and hypersonic business jets.
Hermeus specifically is developing an sr71 style ramjet afterburner around an existing pratt and whittney engine.
hereforthenudes81@reddit
Commission, yes. Pay for? Very few could afford that today.
BrupieD@reddit
The mach +3 speed created endless engineering issues, especially for manned aircraft. The issues were worked out or worked around but it was ungodly expensive. Building the airframe out of titanium was used to withstand the friction of those speeds which helped on keeping it lighter then they needed new tools for machining. They had to careful with substances that could touch it - chlorine degrades titanium.
Lord-Black22@reddit
DO YOU EVEN READ MY CHRISTMAS LIST?
Freak_Engineer@reddit
I mean, she did get him that plasma TV and that cannon for his pet...
Lord-Black22@reddit
bitches love cannons
modelvillager@reddit
Commission? Sure. I just did.
I hereby commission my private building of an SR-71.
Actually build it and fly? Tougher.
Sixguns1977@reddit
Oh, it has to FLY? Shit, I was going to build you one out of legos.
CoastRegular@reddit
You can make a Lego plane fly...
Sixguns1977@reddit
Once....
CoastRegular@reddit
Yep.
Freak_Engineer@reddit
Probably not, but not (just) due to money. The Knowledge how to make one is just not existing anymore.
It's a sad thing, really. Same Issue as with the F1-Engine from the Saturn V's first stage. We have all the drawings, documentation, test reports - even finished and ground tested engines and all materials available, but we can no longer build them because the necessary shop floor knowledge is gone. The people who built them are either retired or dead and they didn't pass that knowledge on to the next generation because it wasn't necessary anymore.
The one thing we could do is re-engineer the whole thing. Engineer every system of that plane with comparable modern-time substitutes, then design an airframe around that that shares the SR71's look. Might still be different in some places visually and will definitely be a lot different internally out of necessity, but that would be at least feasible. Hell, might even turn out better than the original if done right.
1937Mopar@reddit
I know I am probably wrong on this answer, but doesn't the American government still hold the "ownership" of decommissioned aircraft to keep even outdated tech from falling into the wrong hands. I know there are a few planes that have slipped through the cracks into private ownership in the public and to hand selected companies to keep pilot readiness in combat Sims.
dauby09@reddit
Billionaires have space companies so yes
oopsiedoodle3000@reddit
Got a spare Buick V8 lying around? You'll need one to start the engines
theeaglejax@reddit
Start carts ran 2 wild cats until there were no more and they were reconfigured to use GM corporate big blocks.
oopsiedoodle3000@reddit
My Sierra has a 454, maybe OP could borrow it 🤣
zerbey@reddit
Sure, with enough money and influence anything is possible.
cadian16th@reddit
You’re going about this all wrong, if you’re a billionaire you make your own aerospace company and get the government to pay YOU to make the next gen SR-71.
wrongwayup@reddit
Boom doing its best at making something supersonic. But JetZero is doing a better job of getting the government to pay for their project.
Id_Rather_Beach@reddit
This is the way Howard Hughes did things ;)
wrongwayup@reddit
Being a simple billionaire wouldn't be enough. One would have to be a multi-billionaire, probably with some billionaire friends, and be willing to end up without that billionaire status at the end.
But sure, otherwise anything is possible with the proper application of time and money. Clearly it's been done once it can be done again.
zipzapkazoom@reddit
Yes! Cash out your IRA and go for it.
ttystikk@reddit
A human could commission the Cutty Sark, a clipper ship from 200 years ago.
A human would have a hard time recreating the SR-71. Even $50 billion would be barely enough.
LuuDinhUSA@reddit
I don't see why not. If Brosen, Musk and Bezos can create literal space ships then why not a jet that does mach 3?
Zorg_Employee@reddit
Anything can be had with enough money. I'd guess 60 billion for a decade of operation.
Literally, everything from the engines, airframe, and fuel would need to be made from scratch. Not even the tires are available.
Also all the GSE and special tooling would need made.
You'd need another aircraft large enough for aerial refueling.
Neo1331@reddit
You can’t build one as a citizen because some of the aircraft is still classified so there is no way to actually make it. Not withstanding the drawing are so old they maybe hard to follow. You would have to just design a new one.
shoeinc@reddit
No, the manufacturing infrastructure doesn't exist anymore, do it would be a start from scratch, parts are still classified, and i believe when it was commissioned, there's are restrictions for non.us govt buyers
Feeling-Income5555@reddit
So, let’s not forget that this plane is made out of titanium. The titanium for this plane was sourced out of Russia. Also, titanium is very difficult to weld and work with.
paulmafoster@reddit
How to become a millionaire. Be a billionare and commission someone to build you a civil SR-71
Kaiy0te@reddit
They’ll be lucky if they’re a millionaire and not shopping for potatoes at Aldi with me. But they’d have their own SR71, so there’s that
69stanglover@reddit
Can they park it in the Aldi parking lot tho?
CardinalOfNYC@reddit
Yes, if you have a quarter
ElBurritoTheWise@reddit
Ehh, that's a solid two-quarter park job.
7stroke@reddit
Yeah, find one that hasn’t heard the joke about making a small fortune in aviation
wt1j@reddit
These days that’s even more true, although Kelly Johnson brought this project in on time and below budget back when that was a thing.
KinksAreForKeds@reddit
Would you accept a 727 with a really fast nose instead??
daygloviking@reddit
At this point I’ll settle for a C152 with a door that stays shut
clancycoop@reddit
From what I understand they had to invent the machines to form the Titanium airframe. Also the entire thing was invented without the aid of computers. So I would imagine all the blueprints are on paper somewhere, and modern designers probably don’t know old school methods without computer aided design. At this point it would be smarter to design a state of the art aircraft. But you say he is a big fan? Maybe just try to buy one that already exists. The infrastructure to keep a new in the air is way more than each individual airframe.
Lv_InSaNe_vL@reddit
And all of the tooling and machines were destroyed in the late 1960s, specifically to prevent anyone from making another one haha
ILikeWoodAnMetal@reddit
At the time titanium was rare and a nightmare to deal with, it was never used for something even remotely similar before. Nowadays it has become considerably cheaper, and our tools have improved to the point where any machine shop should be able to process it
CARCaptainToastman@reddit
Bro, what? Titanium is still incredibly expensive. Source: I work in a machine shop. The last cost we have for a 48x48 sheet of .032" 7075-T6 aluminum is $54. The last cost we have for a 36x48 sheet of .032" 6AL-4V titanium is $1566 and change. What the fuck are you talking about?
Also it's not "rare" now, but it has way longer lead times than aluminum and you do often need to use different machines when working with it. And not every shop has or even needs those kind of machines, because the vast majority of aircraft components are made from aluminum alloy, which is much easier to work with. It's also inferior to titanium in almost every way. Titanium is lighter, stronger, and can withstand much higher temperatures. If it was also affordable, readily available, and easy to work with, they would use it for damn near everything. They don't.
ILikeWoodAnMetal@reddit
It’s still significantly more expensive than aluminium, but you are completely missing the point. I can nowadays directly buy a piece of grade 5 titanium roundstock from the internet for around € 15/kg. Back in the sixties, they had to import it from the soviets, without them knowing what it would be used for. I can’t find the actual amount they had to pay, but bulk prices for titanium appeared to be around 5 times higher back then compared to today. Furthermore, because this was pretty much the first proper usecase for titanium they lacked a lot of knowledge, resulting in at times 90% of the material having to be thrown away. I’m not saying titanium is as cheap as aluminum, but back then it was so much worse. Compared to the cost of a one off spy plane, the titanium itself won’t be that significant.
Plants_et_Politics@reddit
No. Titanium tooling is not common, and most machine shops struggle with even brittle, high-strength alloys of steels.
In fact, it’s entirely possible that the US has declined in its ability to process titanium at non-specialist shops. Economic progress is not a straight line.
Andy802@reddit
Machining titanium is not that big a deal. The machines people are referring to are the huge stamping presses (look up the Mesta 50 for example https://www.construction-physics.com/p/how-to-build-a-50000-ton-forging) that were used to make large sections of the air frame out of a single piece of titanium. Tooling like this is what gave Germany an edge over the Allied powers during WWII. After the war, the USSR and USA scrambled to take home as many of them as possible as the Cold War began.
These large presses are used today in aircraft like F22 & F35. They are commercially owned, so while expensive to design tooling for them, it should be possible for someone with money have large parts fabricated for their own personal project.
Technical48@reddit
IBRs in modern engines are large titanium sculptures. We definitely have the know-how to work titanium into complex shapes.
roiki11@reddit
You can buy titanium tooling online. It's definitely common.
Whats not common is the ability(and to a lesser extent machinery) to produce complex, large titanium pieces. But overall working on it is not impossible for most machine shops.
Soviets built an entire submarine out of it.
Plants_et_Politics@reddit
Modern engineers are often criticized for being too quick to jump to simulations where hand calculations would do just fine, but in aerospace the vast majority of what computers do is in principle the same as what used to be done by hand—just at a smaller, more refined scale made possible by the speed of computation.
Forgettingtomorrow@reddit
What about the stealth tech, paint, and other sensor arrays, surely that can’t be reproduced for private use. Doesn’t it use a version of a ram jet as well to hit 3+?
Ok-Stomach-@reddit
with enough money sure you can do anything, Elon did rocket and space travel and is doing huge rocket and moon/mars travel, sure if someone truly wanted he/she could do it
adayley1@reddit
An accurate sculpture of one that I could sit in and pretend to fly would be good enough for me. It so beautiful.
moto_dweeb@reddit
I'm sure there's a ton of classified stuff in it so no, probably not
Efficient_Sky5173@reddit
Yes. I know a guy that knows a guy that knows a guy.
equatorbit@reddit
Multi billionaires build rockets, so something similar to an SR-71 isn’t out of the realm of possibility. Maybe not an exact replica, but you can do almost anything if you throw enough money at it.
moofie74@reddit
What does “commission” mean?
Buy a reproduction SR-71 from Lockheed? No. Hire an engineering company to design an aircraft that looks similar and has similar performance? Sure. Billion dollars or two gets you lots a smart engineers.
Monster_Voice@reddit
You're gunna need to commission a few sir tankers to go with it... step two after raising the gear was go hook up to the tanker.
Liamnacuac@reddit
I've often fantasize about being Musk rich, and blowing a big chunk of my money on buying a retired aircraft carrier and turning it into my own floating resort. More down to earth was a simple DC-3. I could save a little money doing that instead. Maybe do an XB-70...
Silly_Primary_3393@reddit
While this is an intriguing hypothetical, I suspect the costs are even greater than a traditional billionaire. We’re probably talking on the order $10-35B to develop and produce such an aircraft. Airbus and Boeing spent $15-32B to develop the A350 and B787 but those were production aircraft. The Concorde was around $15B in todays dollars. Boom Supersonic is the odd one for the company is very quite on certain details like development costs but I’ve seen expected numbers from analysis putting $10B as the low starting point. While were talking about billionaires here, I’d say its more likely only top 20 richest folks on the earth could afford such a venture.
Austie33@reddit
You would also need your own starter box to turn the turbines
wt1j@reddit
Funnily enough the answer, in this case, is influenced by how slow you can fly. If you’re going to be in the pattern at 220 knots and need to fly above 250 on a regular basis below 10,000ft you’re going to need to work with FAA and/or the military if you’re US based, or whatever the local controlling agencies are in your jurisdiction. Below FL10 the speed limit is 250kts and, for example, in Delta and below Bravo the speed limit is 200kts. Although you may still be passed by the occasional Cirrus pilot.
Otherwise it may be as simple as slapping an experimental certification on her and off you go. Although when you ask for Mach 3 in Class A airspace they may have questions.
magnumfan89@reddit
Anything is possible with time and money. Most importantly money. It's just a question on if it's worth doing
snotsausage@reddit
Would it not depend on the pentagon allowing it? I.e. the Pepsi kid and the fighter jet. At their discretion if they allow the sale of military aircraft to civilians.
snappy033@reddit
You need more than straight cash to keep large numbers of engineers and technicians working on crazy ideas for you. Paul Allen’s family immediately ceased work on Stratolaunch upon his death and Jared Isaacman is one of the only people in the world able to keep a much simpler warbird, a MiG-29, airborne.
Talented employees don’t want to work on projects where the rug could be pulled out from under them in an instant. Banks don’t want to help finance these things. And yes, billionaires still need access to banks. Even billionaires don’t have access to $1B cash and/or don’t want to leverage 20% of their net worth on a complete money pit. Those are a couple reasons why you usually see rich people starting companies or foundations that are self-sustaining to at least break even when they want to spend their fortunes.
You don’t even see billionaires sponsoring SpaceX manned missions left and right and that’s literally a service you can order and climb aboard with no engineering or management like a major bespoke aerospace program. Isaacman spent a huge amount of his net worth to do so probably because he had a unique obsession with space.
NotThatGuyAnother1@reddit
SpaceX is a thing. The SR71 seems like a much lower bar than launching thousands of satellites into orbit.
redaction_figure@reddit
The US Air Force pulled 2 out of retirement in the early 90's and converted some 135Q tankers in the process. The plane was actually retired twice.
SHIBashoobadoza@reddit
May not be accurate, but an old friend of mine was a radar operator and he told me there’s no way it COULDN’T do Mach 5 based on the time it took for it to pass through his scope.
jeb_hoge@reddit
Nope. That would require an entirely different propulsion system. Those engines really couldn't push one past M3.3.
Living-Metal-9698@reddit
They already produced a number of them so theoretically, yes. I am actually know a retired aerospace engineer who worked on designing & developing the SR71s, particularly critical components of the engine. I will hopefully see him on Sunday & will definitely ask him if recreating a copy would be possible & what it would entail.
No_Worldliness234@reddit
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828jpc1@reddit
Just get a 757 and put a body kit on it…
49thDipper@reddit
A friend of mine restored a mid 60’s Volvo 1800. Did a beautiful job. Even balanced the rolling assemblies. Smooth af. That thing goes around corners.
When it was finished he said it was a stupid project and smart money would just buy a 3 year old well maintained WRX.
Key words: smart money
arkencode@reddit
Musk or Bezos certainly could.
cripblip@reddit
Musk could have been a real life Tony stark with all this before going nuts
alister6128@reddit
Musk is my go-to definition of “squandered legacy”
birdpix@reddit
There is a supersonic business jet coming to market in the not distant future. I'll bet they each have one on order. Gotta keep up with Elon.
Late-Mathematician55@reddit
It would be cheaper to steal one from a museum.
Select_Panda_649@reddit
Yeah… I heard one of said billionaires loves the A-12 so much, he named his son after it…
Quiet_normal_person@reddit
Somebody named their kid "Oxcart"?
Late-Mathematician55@reddit
Someone named their kid "Warthog"? Oopsie that's the A-10
BE805@reddit
Boom did with the XB1 kinda.
27803@reddit
I mean a private citizen decided to build his own rocket ship so yes I’m sure they could, but the better question is why they would want to
HuumanDriftWood@reddit
Because they can
cazzipropri@reddit
Yes, of course. Given enough resources, you can design and manufacture a plane. You'll have to pay licenses for patented parts or design proprietary replacements.
Dioken_@reddit
Do you know what an NDA is??
Awkward-Feature9333@reddit
If the elongated muskrat can build rockets from scratch, a SR-71 (or even something better, WE have better materials and so on now) should be possible.
echo4thirty@reddit
In addition to the above, how would you possibly get type rated as a pilot to even fly it. The guys flying Blackhawks have tons of hoops to jump through on ex mil aircraft that are far more common than an SR-71/A-12.
ethan1231@reddit
So if money is truly no object, you could probably build one and not fly one.
Challenges, but you could overcome with unlimited money - different fuel than normal aircraft - could open your own refinery or get the special grade
aerial refueling after takeoff - could contract with omega to provide this
special metal grades - well if money is unlimited….
j58 engines would be tough, but assume you’d drop in something more modern
Things you probably couldn’t overcome - gas certification. I don’t know what rule flying at 80,000 ft at Mach 3 breaks, but I can’t imagine that’s easy
itar and export controls - newer engines would be export controlled. Reverse engineering the sr-71 would make something export controlled
time - this would take a decade. If you had this kind of money, buying an island would be easier
JP-Seven@reddit
The cost wouldn’t be the problem. It’s the logistical cost of ground crew, maintenance and knowledge of how to fly it.
But it’d make an awesome lawn ordainment.
767-pilot@reddit
If you do, I’ll go halfsies!
Hank_moody71@reddit
Recycling the titanium would make more sense
Impressive-Weird-908@reddit
You pay that company in Georgia to try to make it for you
CBT7commander@reddit
Yeah probably. As far as I know there is no legislation regarding speed of commercial planes.
So it might not be a 1 to 1 recreation, but if you got enough money you could have a mach 3 plane built for you
Copman04@reddit
Civilian flights aren’t allowed to exceed Mach 1 over land in the US without special FAA authorization for like R&D purposes. Unless you’re only really flying over the ocean or leaping through regulatory hoops for R&D it wouldn’t have any capabilities that any other jet has. In fact it’d probably be hard to fly and hugely inefficient because it was designed for over 3 times the speeds you’re flying at.
MisterFixit_69@reddit
If a person can privately build Rockets and put satellites into space then yeah I geuss you could
halfmylifeisgone@reddit
Just buy a Concorde like a sensible person.
xdjfrick@reddit
Probably not this time exact this example but I'm sure there are billionaires who have done and are actively doing equally insane things most are just a lot more secretive about it. I believe only a few enjoy the attention.
zippy251@reddit
Of course they could, it would just be extremely expensive and you would have to go through all the FAA hoops just as you would creating any aircraft. It would take a lot of dedication to the passion project.
Everythingisnotreal@reddit
Plenty of used ones just lying around. 🙄
Riyandrew@reddit
What if someone commissioned this but instead of the plane being exactly like the original in terms of speed, it's made purely for aesthetics? Like for the lols purpose?
No-Prior-4664@reddit
Give it a few decades from now, yeah. Most likely end of your life assuming younger than 30 if lucky.
ghostchihuahua@reddit
depends on the amount of cash one can dish out: fuel would have to be custom made, many parts would have to be custom-made, some may still be classified tech for some reason so no-go, one would also need a KC-135 or equivalent to refuel it after t/o - maybe that's a conversation topic for when one of get to meet Travolta?
Adventurous-Cow-2345@reddit
The srs is a really expansie beast, one of the reasons its was so expansive was because it needed it own special fuel, which needed its on production plant thing, even if u got that u would need a KC-135 for refueling after takeoff because this thing leaked fuel when it wasn’t flying like a pig stabbed 10 times
patrick_thementalist@reddit
You would think the R&D needed for this can be replicated without billions of dollars worth of investment?
prancing_moose@reddit
Considering they had to trick the Soviet Union into selling them the titanium required for the fuselage, I wouldn’t hold my breath.
I also doubt you’d ever get a “home made” copy of the SR-71 onto the civilian register.
PizzaWall@reddit
One of the hardest thing about making a replica of a plane like the SR-71 or the Concorde is it's really hard to make an exact copy.
Lets say you could find detailed plans to build the plane. The next issue is how do you incorporate the latest changes to fix known flaws. And if you are going to fix those flaws, is there a different direction to create an improvement. An example is the leaking fuel tanks. Lets say you install a modern fuel bladder and you stopped the leaking. Now you have to test to make sure it meets all the tolerances and works in the airplane.
Next you have the engine and fuel management which in the decades since the SR-71 was developed, have improved dramatically. Many of the parts are simply no longer made. The material may no longer be available.
Eventually, you have made so many changes it may look similar, but it is a different aircraft.
Despite the rather huge problems to overcome, I'd love to see this happen.
sevgonlernassau@reddit
Would be prohibitively expensive. That being said, civilian SR-71 did exist, so I do wonder what would be considered classified under this scenario
Quiet-Tackle-5993@reddit
No
North_Phrase4848@reddit
I can't be sure the SR-71 is declassified. If it is, it would be very cost prohibitive to build. I would assume there would be a great deal of security protocols in place and any possible investors would be hesitant because of this. The tech of the SR-71 is antiquated and any possible software updates would be very expensive.
Farmallenthusiast@reddit
Absolutely! Let us know how it works out for you.