Collapse of critical Atlantic current is no longer low-likelihood, study finds • Scientists say ‘shocking’ discovery shows rapid cuts in carbon emissions are needed to avoid catastrophic fallout
Posted by Naurgul@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 179 comments
The collapse of a critical Atlantic current can no longer be considered a low-likelihood event, a study has concluded, making deep cuts to fossil fuel emissions even more urgent to avoid the catastrophic impact.
The Atlantic meridional overturning circulation (Amoc) is a major part of the global climate system. It brings sun-warmed tropical water to Europe and the Arctic, where it cools and sinks to form a deep return current. The Amoc was already known to be at its weakest in 1,600 years as a result of the climate crisis.
Climate models recently indicated that a collapse before 2100 was unlikely but the new analysis examined models that were run for longer, to 2300 and 2500. These show the tipping point that makes an Amoc shutdown inevitable is likely to be passed within a few decades, but that the collapse itself may not happen until 50 to 100 years later.
The research found that if carbon emissions continued to rise, 70% of the model runs led to collapse, while an intermediate level of emissions resulted in collapse in 37% of the models. Even in the case of low future emissions, an Amoc shutdown happened in 25% of the models.
Scientists have warned previously that Amoc collapse must be avoided “at all costs”. It would shift the tropical rainfall belt on which many millions of people rely to grow their food, plunge western Europe into extreme cold winters and summer droughts, and add 50cm to already rising sea levels.
Thangoman@reddit
Its always so nice to know that ro get anything done in this world you need to find how it hurts rich white people. Really the only way to make anyone react it seems
Scientific_Socialist@reddit
White? The bourgeoisie of the entire world are complicit. Capital has no color but green
stonkysdotcom@reddit
Exactly, why do people make these racist remarks.
Thangoman@reddit
Im white and upper middle class
Its not because I think theres anything wrong with white people but because theres the "western" monolith that needs to be protected, whivh is overwhelmimgly white, christian and rich
stonkysdotcom@reddit
And I am white and working class. You have more in common with brown upper class people than me.
Thangoman@reddit
Dude you travel around in Europe. Thats something that only upper middle class or upper class people can afford in my country
Dont try to point fingers at me
DildoeShwagginz@reddit
Im white and working class and still living paycheck to paycheck. My car works... sometimes. This week I'm "fasting". Not because I want to but because I could either pay my electric bill and buy formula or I could buy food for myself. I am struggling. Very bad. Like, going to have to hit the soup kitchen after work bad but please go on and remind me how privileged I am since I'm white.
Shit like this is why republican voter registrations are so far up this year btw. Its not a racial issue, its a class issue. Elites create the illusion of a race issue so you don't realize the real issue is the elites. To say "ITS ALL WHITE PEOPLES FAULT THAT AMERICA IS FAILING" ostracized millions of americans. The left basically said "Hey you are the enemy and you're racist" then wondered why you didn't win that vote... its because they ostracized and made an entire group of people feel unwanted... which in itself is racist.
stonkysdotcom@reddit
I didn't make the argument that I am "the same" as working class in South America.
I made the argument that the upper classes have the same privileges no matter where they are and what color is their skin.
It's true that I get to travel all over Europe. And I see the same thing everywhere: Rich people no matter what race are commingling with each other, but not with their servant classes.
I am not trying to point finger at anyone. I am making an observation. There is a world of difference between the people who sustain themselves from selling their labour and the people who sustain themselves by owning capital.
Thangoman@reddit
I dont have any fuckimg business either. I give classes to children in a mediocre institute to pay for groceries and live with my parents until I cam afford to mpve. My parents work in the entertaimment industry and give college classes respectively.
I say upper middle class because my country is so fucked up that the omly thing left is a 75% that fluctuate beetwen poverty amd middle class, 20% that is upper middle class and 5% that is upper class. Since I have never experienced poverty I consider myself upper middle class
Jacinto2702@reddit
In this case it's accurate to say that privilege is a complex issue. Yes, rich black people are better off than poor white people, but rich black people can also suffer racism, something that a poor white person won't have to live through. And before some try to argue using prejudice against white people somewhere else, we are talking about America (the continent).
Racism and classism don't affect everyone in the same way, and one person can be a victim of both, or some other form of discrimination at the same time, etc.
Humbleman15@reddit
Poor white people deal with racism when they are the minority in a black area. How much so depends on where but it does happen.
NotStompy@reddit
We're about to get to a point in the world economically where class is about to matter a whole lot more than Racism, at least in Europe and the US (can't speak for how racism is elsewhere).
When I say "About to get to" I mean 5-10 years, but yeah, we will arrive at a point where it matters less what color of skin one has and more so everyone can feed their families and afford a roof over their heads. Things have already gotten harder in this sense in the last number of years but it really, really is not gonna be pretty when the outcome of fiscal policy is sky high, persistent inflation combined with massive job loss becomes clear...
Let's hope I'm not right. And, to be clear I'm not at all downplaying Racism, things have gotten markedly worse in recent years.
!Remindme 5 years
RemindMeBot@reddit
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CLICK THIS LINK to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam.
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stonkysdotcom@reddit
While global wages are trending downwards and the value of labour is getting lower, the distinction between working class and middle class is getting more and more meaningless. You have more in common with the working class than the owning class.
I wish you a nice day/evening/night
Thangoman@reddit
Okay, fair enough, have a nice day too
revolting_peasant@reddit
Hahaha you immediately nose dive into oppression Olympics, textbook stuff.
CurbYourThusiasm@reddit
Duh, you live in South America. It would be like you travelling to Brazil.
SilpheedsSs@reddit
Huh?
Rich people = shit ; true
You for some reason had to throw your racism in there sonehow.
Short-Recording587@reddit
The largest carbon polluter is China. You consider them western and white?
ShoYogi@reddit
China is significantly better at emissions per capita than most western nations. If the average American had to reduce their emissions to that of the average Chinese civilian there would be riots.
happycow24@reddit
But ultimately climate change is affected by emissions, not emissions per capita. And it'll fuck China hard too. Recent floods aint shit compared to whatever is coming in the next few years (probably).
footie_ruler@reddit
That's true, but it's also a goal to get to NET 0. Not total 0. There are emissions that are completely unavoidable if you like having food on your table, or clean water. The average QOL decrease to get to net 0 is way way more in western nations than in China.
ObjectPretty@reddit
In 2023, China's per capita carbon dioxide emissions were approximately 9.24 tons, significantly higher than the European Union's average of about 5.66 tons per person.
Jacinto2702@reddit
People act as if China isn't home to 1,300 million persons.
Whipa@reddit
and turn it into the manufacturing country of the world.
Thangoman@reddit
Again, YOU decided to rely in China for manufacturing, and none the less China producess less carbon than you per capita and has done the largest switch tp renewables
And Im talking about the international community doing stuff not about who produces carbon
Short-Recording587@reddit
I did? I decided China should have piss poor labor laws and that companies should pursue profit at all costs? Didn’t know I was capable of that type of thing.
Thangoman@reddit
Your country decided that, you yankees
revolting_peasant@reddit
Yeah and it’s always your sort who make those kind of racist divide remarks and then infer that you couldn’t possibly be ignorant because you’re so liberal or educated or whatever. Still an ignorant thing to say and feels completely performative. Just bleating ignorance to fit in with the “every white person is responsible for racism” crew.
Thangoman@reddit
?????
Are you fucking stupid? Im saying that maybe now that the disaster affects the rich white countries who control the global institutions maybe something will happen
White people isnt responsable for shitty stuff for being white, they are responsable of that for bring part of the global wprld order who refuses to react.
beraksekebon12@reddit
I disagree. I'm from Indonesia and the rich and wealthy here is definitely non-white. If you bring down all the rich white people, these other fuckers would only replace the status quo.
unpersoned@reddit
Friend, you kinda need to let the reddit people here know that upper middle class in South America is just regular working middle class where they live.
SilpheedsSs@reddit
Dont know why you have to mention skin color so much. Are you implying non-white people can't get rich? Or if they are rich they are so perfect and not like those "rich white people"?
Thangoman@reddit
No, Im.implying that rich white people dont care nearly as much as rich middle eastern
SilpheedsSs@reddit
Racism.
I see no difference. Give examples
Thangoman@reddit
You are an idiot
Just to give you any example: when a tornado hits a Caribbean nation ot gets way less atention than when it hits Florida.
4FriedChickens_Coke@reddit
This will be a revolutionary concept to you, but when a hurricane hits the Caribbean (Caribbean doesn’t get tornados) it gets covered a lot in Caribbean media, and less in US/European media. Just like things of regional importance to Europe aren’t covered in Chinese media. Absolutely shocking.
SilpheedsSs@reddit
Attention from whom? What kind of attention?
Media? Aid?
Wow! Such ad hominems!
Weird cause I also see a lot of bad shit happening in "white" (as a racist like you would say) european countries that get just as little or less "attention".
So the problem might not be "white" rich people, but just rich people.
_HighJack_@reddit
I think it’s more male and Abrahamic and rich.
Mintfriction@reddit
Western monolith? Overwhelmingly white? Bruh, there are a lot of billionaires in Asia and in top countries as biggest polluters per capita.
Yes, USA won WW2 an became the richest nation, but has nothing to do with skin color, but circumstance.
https://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/normal/24306.jpeg
Thangoman@reddit
Im talkimg anout international reaction to events affecting western nations gaining way more traction.
Global Warming is going to kill millions in Bengal but the ds needed to protect the Netherlands get more traction
Mintfriction@reddit
In western media? Obviously. People are concerned what happens at home. It's a sad human truth, but with the world full of conflict and inequality and the fact global policing doesn't work or its popular, people don't focus that much of what happens far from home
If it would've be about australia or new zealand, the same reaction from EU
Thangoman@reddit
In western media and among the international community
Mintfriction@reddit
What internation community? Reddit that's overwhelmingly US centric?
ctnoxin@reddit
It sounds like this remark struck a white nerve, but the unfortunate thing is facts show that the richest people on the planet are indeed white males, so you know, try to reframe your white world views to include the fact that some of these whites in your clan are ruining the planet.
FujitsuPolycom@reddit
Observation?
mnmkdc@reddit
The vast majority of the people affected are white and it is actually relevant still. There’s nothing racist about noting this.
Beer_Gynt@reddit
Uh because most of the world's wealth is held by white Westerners. You can thank colonialism for that.
Dirkdeking@reddit
To an extent. But Europe and the US are clearly the economic behemoths. Dictators in Africa, Asia and Latin America just fall in line, or they choose the path of sanctions and economic misery by siding with Russia and China. Who aren't any better of course.
So yes of course the elite of the entire world is complicit. But the non white elites don't have the leverage to do anything about it unless they literally are China or Russia.
ObjectPretty@reddit
The middle east could stop selling oil, china could stop burning coal, easy.
SilpheedsSs@reddit
That doesn't mean the color of their skin needs to be mentioned. If it were non-white the people that were the "economic behemoths and the europe and US had to fall in line" it still would be uneccesary and hint at that commenter's racism to mention the skin color of those "yellow, brown, black rich people"
setut@reddit
It is disingenuous to assert that rich white people haven't wielded an amount of power over the last century unprecedented in human history. Y'all get so triggered when someone says 'white people' that you ignore basic truths. The bourgeoise are complicit, capital has no colour but green, but the world of modern capital was organised and historically dominated by Europeans.
Verungachungachunga@reddit
Money isn't green in a lot of the world.
SilpheedsSs@reddit
Wow, what a racist!
Thangoman@reddit
Im white, financially alright and have European citizenship
But you have to be blind to not see how much the west cares about any small problem going on when it happens to a fellow westerner compared to the rest
Mintfriction@reddit
Nonsense. UE tries really hard to cutback emissions, at the expense of our wealth. Sure it's not enough and a little too late, but let's not turn a blind eye that alot of developing nations are ramping up their emissions as their economies are growing
Thangoman@reddit
If it was at expense of their wealth rhe largest European economy wouldnt have become more reliant on coal in the last decade and a half
Mintfriction@reddit
Thank ecologists and nuclear panic, people that fell into capitalists lobby looking to make a buck on exploiting local coal
ApoBong@reddit
I find this so misleading and cheap really. 'nuclear panic', there has been a movement against nuclear energy for like 50+ years. Those same people also have been advocating for green energy, transforming the energy grid/infrastructure and generally move away from coal/gas for a while.
Conservative gov. killed subsidies for renewal energies, we used to have lot's of companies for Solar&wind. Solar especially got completely wrecked by China investing while we cut back everything.
Against all begging and cajoling, conservative gov. and GroKo in germany went time and time for Russian gas & doubling down on coal.
What finished Nuclear was Fukushima, simple as that. Btw we still got no plan for our Nuclear waste and there is no end in sight. It's gonna be expensive af for generations, conveniently left out from the math of how cheap Nuclear energy is. There is no end to this, nobody wants that shit near them, a problem best handed to our children. As if they don't inherit enough problems from us lol
SilpheedsSs@reddit
I dont care about you. You are racist. Its fine to admit it.
Mintfriction@reddit
I've seen this type of racism quite tolerated on reddit, in the same western media OP commenter is criticizing
Jacinto2702@reddit
Yeah, I remember the time when white people were enslaved by the millions and transported across the Atlantic, and when they were lynched in the 50s... Also when they had to march to get civil rights...
Is that the timeline that exists in your head?
chambreezy@reddit
Does any history exist in your head? Apparently not.
fullkaretas@reddit
pretty much all of those statements are applicable to white people except the time and transported across the atlantic.
Mintfriction@reddit
Yes, yes. Because only white people used slaves and white people where never slaves.
setut@reddit
tbh white people saying that saying 'white people' is racist is getting pretty old dude.
Mintfriction@reddit
? Where did you come up with "white people" is a racist term ?
His statement is racist, assuming white people are solely responsible of this global climate issue.
setut@reddit
Show me where he said white people are solely responsible for climate change.
Mintfriction@reddit
Do I need to make a syntactic analysis to the first comment to get it?
Anything and "the only way" implies "sole" responsibility
ObjectPretty@reddit
Yeah, none of the rich POCs give a crap. Thank god rich white people still has a shred of conscience.
agangofoldwomen@reddit
Right because if you’re rich and black, Hispanic, Asian, or Middle Eastern, you’re automatically a good person and an advocate for the climate. What an absolutely brain dead take.
Thangoman@reddit
Pretty impressive how you didnt understand the point I was making
Rich white countries lead the global world order, im aaying that maybe now SOMETHING may happen
Also calling my comment brain dead while using hispanic as a "race"...
agangofoldwomen@reddit
Classic “ooh this guy didn’t use the exact right term let’s distract from the entire point!” I understand the difference between race and ethnicity I was just using less words to get the point across…
Back to the actual discussion… The top 5 countries in terms of GDP are U.S., China, Germany, India, and Japan. The vast majority of the population of these countries are not white.
Matteus11@reddit
Every second, third and fourth article on climate change talks about how the worst effects will disproportionately fall upon the developing world.
You're speaking out your ass.
Thangoman@reddit
Thats the point I was making? That maybe now that they are seeing something as drastic as the end of the OMAC maybe something will be donr
Chapstick160@reddit
It really India and China doing the most damage
Thangoman@reddit
India and China hold a a third of the global population yet are still behind Europe and N America in total emissions
Saorren@reddit
its annoyingly hard to get these people to admit that our countries carbon impacts are masked by us having exported the manufacture of our poluting products to the very places they want to blame for our current issues.
Jacinto2702@reddit
And the historical record of emissions industrialized nations produced to get where they are now. They want third world countries to stop producing pollution but don't offer a way to develop them without polluting.
runsongas@reddit
its a fuck you got mine mentality. they don't want countries outside the EU and anglosphere to develop, they want them to stay poorer.
Saorren@reddit
even just the wars started them selves are horrible for emissions levels.
all of this is just so frustrating.
enterisys@reddit
Wrong. China is top3, and both are growing emissions at astronomic rate while the rest of the world is cutting it.
Thangoman@reddit
Analysis: Clean energy just put China’s CO2 emissions into reverse for first time - Carbon Brief https://share.google/BIf8mEzJs1dVjoZqZ
China produces way less carbon per capita than the US
Short-Recording587@reddit
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions
China is number 1 (no pun intended) by a wide margin.
Thangoman@reddit
I agreed that China is the highest polluter, but I añsoentionedcthe factors and per capita emmision
enterisys@reddit
That's not reverse even your article is sceptical about it.
China produces way more carbon per capita than EU.
Speed231@reddit
It's always hilarious (and sad) how people in the global north refuse to take responsability for centuries of emissions to just blame emerging countries like India and China. It's easy to blame them, after all they have massive populations, but at the end of the day your average westerner emits way more co2 than your average person in the global south.
Europe has tried to move to green energy and nuclear power but somehow end up going backwards to coal. America didn't even try at all even the Democratic party had power.
defordj@reddit
Don't worry. Nobody is going to react this time either
Accidental-Genius@reddit
It has nothing to do with color and everything to do with class.
Private_HughMan@reddit
Sadly, it's true. People here just don't give a shit.
CLOUDMlNDER@reddit
Bourgeois scientists who spread scare stories without exploring solutions only serve to build legitimacy for the climate-based authorirarianism that capitalist rulers are clearly banking on.
Eternal disdain got mealy-mouthed careerists who studiously ignore the continuity between economic structures and atmospheric composition.
The corporations funding their universities will never stop undermining the conditions for the reproduction of human life and society unless we stop them
Naurgul@reddit (OP)
I think it's silly to blame the scientists. They are doing their best within the confines of the system. What do you think they should be doing differently?
CLOUDMlNDER@reddit
Scientists opt to be responsible for "knowledge creation" and systematically fail to "create knowledge" that undermines the ruling order (the hegemony, in Gramscian terms). They accept a comfortable career in return for neutered investigations.
Our scientific knowledge would be very different if its producers weren't primarily concerned with securing funding and protecting careers. What they should be doing differently is overcoming fear and rejecting the status quo.
Some academics do this (the Marxist epidemiologist Rob Wallace springs to mind as a favourite) and live quite precariously without institutional support. Wonderful people, few in number.
Naurgul@reddit (OP)
The current findings of climate scientists are enough to undermine the ruling order and reject the status quo, if followed to their natural conclusions. Sure, they could more openly rebel but the main points of climate research would remain roughly the same.
CLOUDMlNDER@reddit
If the current findings are enough to undermine the ruling order, why is everything still standing? A scientist that refuses to be political in their work concedes everything to Power. The data we are receiving about environmental conditions will contribute to capitalist policy: market-based solutions & power-based oppression.
Scientists kept quiet for years because kicking up a fuss was unseemly. Now they kick up a fuss but never with a systemic critique. This is a new denialism. It is easily co-opted.
FullBridgeAlchemist@reddit
It isn't the scientists place for a systemic critique anyways. Their job is to accurately report on what's going on. Are you saying they should exaggerate the reports to push for more action? Because I don't see what else they can do here.
CLOUDMlNDER@reddit
I have raised a philosophical question about what constitutes a complete explanation. I am not saying scientists should exaggerate reports, which would damage our knowledge base (and scientific fraud and malpractice are widespread enough). I am saying they should complete their reports.
Imagine a doctor saying to a patient: "you have lung cancer from breathing in and out". The explanation is correct but also gigantically incomplete. For many years doctors took up industry's line that the causes of lung cancer were complex and could not be linked to smoking. This lead to excess deaths. The cause of these excess deaths? Smoking. But also, corporate influence on the dissemination of science.
What is causing the proliferation of microplastics in the environment? Plastic breakdown! "Don't be a litter bug!"
... But also... Plastic in the environment increases in direct proportion to increases in plastic production. There is more plastic because companies make more plastic! Plastic is really really bad for us but really cheap for producers because governments subsidise oil so heavily, and do so much work to protect corporations from the cost of toxic industry, to the tune of many trillions of dollars a year.
Complete story of microplastics: capitalist governments subsidise plastic production, ensuring its massive profitability and so ensuring its over production and overuse.
The cause of plastic in the environment is corrupt governance.
The majority of climate scientists have correctly identified problematic mechanisms, such as atmospheric carbon, and even sources, such as industry but stop short of diagnosing the real culprit: capitalism's exponentially growing demands for energy and resources. Mainstream solutions, like market-based fixes and "green consumerism" accept and endorse the system that causes massive environmental destruction.
Scientists are pressured by a system where funding, careers and publication depend on not challenging powerful economic interests. Science is no longer geared towards generation of new knowledge, but towards new knowledge that does not block the growth of profits.
Systems change thinking does make it into reports like those of the IPCC but seldom, basically never, into the summaries written for policymakers and public understanding. The issues are raised so they can be pointed to and somebody can say, see, we speak the truth! but are quickly buried.
Haunting-Savings7097@reddit
you seem to be confusing discovery science with activism or applied science
CLOUDMlNDER@reddit
I'm not confused, I worked in the sector. My points are above if you would like to address them directly.
Haunting-Savings7097@reddit
you seem to be saying scientist should be activists
CLOUDMlNDER@reddit
My points stand clear. You are replying but don't seem to want to engage with them. I am guessing that behind this is a disagreement that you can't or won't put into words.
Haunting-Savings7097@reddit
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abk0063
This was published in no less than Science. Were you aware..?
CLOUDMlNDER@reddit
You keep trying to reduce what I am saying to call for activism. I am calling for complete explanations.
The paper you share is a great example of an incomplete explanation: there is a What and How, to do with Exxon lying about its own research into climate change, but no Why. What are the systemic incentives for such dreadful and deadly behaviour? The paper writers are mute on this subject.
Exxon is treated in isolation from the capitalist economy that makes such lying inevitable, that demands such lying.
By the way, I haven't said above that you don't find anti-capitalist scientists. I mention explicitly that there are but that their careers are more difficult. But there is also a structural need to occasionally publish critical papers and articles, because if there genuinely were none, the accusation that the mainstream distorts knowledge would stick too readily. The system must perform integrity. Such limp and useless articles as you share must be published in anticipation of criticisms like mine, so that dupes can share them as lazy rebuttals.
Imagine if you could express yourself as fully as I can on this subject. Who knows what your position even is? I gather you don't approve of what I wrote but you have only little pins to stick in in response ("you're confused", "what do you want?). It looks like you have developed no thoughts on this subject you have intervened on.
Haunting-Savings7097@reddit
you talk a lot but you don't say much
CLOUDMlNDER@reddit
Lol I dismantle the killer paper you share, consistent with the argument I have already laid out, and you just breeze past. You are here with nothing, I am embarrassed for you
Haunting-Savings7097@reddit
I am summarizing your points
Haunting-Savings7097@reddit
maybe your beef should be more with how researchgrants are allocated
setut@reddit
Really reaching in there aren’t you? It’s almost as if you are pretending the wealth of the world hasn’t been conspicuously concentrated in Western (white) countries for centuries, who instigated the industrialisation that kickstarted the current climate crisis. Oh, and they still have a lot of fucken clout. Yes, very very racist to imply that.
GinBang@reddit
Same folks who opposed nuclear, live in mansions, drive around trucks, and blame corporations.
CatsianNyandor@reddit
Scientists for decades: Please, it's getting worse, if we don't do something our planet will become inhabitable to us!
Countries and companies: Yeah but my profit though
I hate every single one of them, hope they choke on their greed.
RydderRichards@reddit
Yeah, it's always the others. It's never our own consumption.
It's solely the people that sell us things. /s
This is the reason why nothing is getting done: people just complain about other people but never take personal responsibility
CatsianNyandor@reddit
It's out of our hands. We can't make up for countries and companies.
RydderRichards@reddit
"better I do nothing than something"
Don't act surprised at the planet going to Shit
CatsianNyandor@reddit
I'm saying this again. We could all do something and we couldn't outpace countries or companies. Look it up.
Sacaron_R3@reddit
You can reduce your consumption all you want, while some marketing genius is paid big bucks to make your neighbours buy a 3 ton SUV.
Meanwhile conservative politicians here were ready to start a civil war at the mere suggestion that schools might introduce a vegetarian day once a week.
People might be greedy and shortsighted idiots often enough, but if politics, media and business align to prevent any positive and meaningful change, they should rightfully carry most of the blame.
RydderRichards@reddit
Who is talking about just me? I am talking about everybody.
Keep pointing fingers, but don't be surprised why nothing changes....
serioussham@reddit
Personal responsibility has limits, and humans are typically shit at it. That's why we form societies with some form of social control, because we know that desirable behavior needs some measure of coercion.
Rejecting the responsibility on the individual is ignoring the massive difference in power and influence between them and larger social structures.
Terrh@reddit
We have the tech to stop global warming in it's tracks, short term, probably within 3-5 years. A bandaid until we finish actually getting our shit together the rest of the way and halt GHG emissions (and maybe even start recapturing a bunch).
It's not even expensive.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_cloud_brightening?useskin=vector
The fact that not one government is pushing to make it happen proves that this issue is not one of technology or science but that we have a completely broken culture.
C4-BlueCat@reddit
”may be”, ”might”
Terrh@reddit
Which is a whole lot better than the "not a chance" that we're currently going with.
ChefCurryYumYum@reddit
Unfortunately our rich feudal lords have decided that in the interest of their short term profits the habitability of the Earth will just have to be sacrificed.
grumble11@reddit
Plenty of average consumers are enjoying the gluttonous consumption too. Let’s not pretend that the typical person doesn’t enjoy living unsustainably and luxuriously. Climate change fighting is costly, it results in a near-term decreased standard of living and everyone wants to blame someone else and make someone else sacrifice.
ChefCurryYumYum@reddit
Total nonsense to both blame average people, who I don't know about you but my "gluttonous consumption" in the US doesn't feel too gluttonous these days with depressed wages and massive inflation.
We can easily maintain and even improve the average standard of living for people while acting to slow and even reverse climate change.
schklom@reddit
France moved its electric production to become ~80% nuclear and didn't AFAIK decrease its standard of living.
Moving to nuclear worldwide would massively decrease carbon emissions, even though not to zero because fuel is still needed for e.g. planes and plastic.
owls_unite@reddit
Manufacture a culture war to prevent a class war, build bunkers for the billionaires to ride out potential unrest... And talk about "going to Mars" and putting chips into people's brains to distract from the fact that you're literally dooming your entire race.
Because let's face it the people who could actually make a change don't see themselves as lowly humans and don't feel threatened at all. For them this is an opportunity to invest. Water stocks are going up!
SellaraAB@reddit
I’ve been fighting against climate change all through my adult life, and at this point I’m just hoping that I can run out the clock on my natural lifespan before hellworld, because I just don’t have much faith left in humanity.
Beer_Gynt@reddit
That's lazy. I think you'll find most people oppose this shit.
It's the capitalist class that prevents progress. They own the courts, they own the capital. Hell, oil production was brought to a record high under Biden despite being the "green" president.
Once we get them to heel we can start making progress.
monkwrenv2@reddit
Not strongly enough. Ain't nobody out rioting and guillotining the rich.
historicusXIII@reddit
I disagree. It's noticable how the main public has become opposed to climate action, to the point that it feels that climate skepticism has become the majority opinion. As a counter to the massive climate protests of a few years ago, it has been turned into a culture war issue, and it worked. It also didn't help that Covid has erroded trust in science.
Beer_Gynt@reddit
Maybe in Belgium.
I don't think covid eroded trust in science, I'm pretty sure it was the capitalist media and pundit class who did that.
Anyone willing to turn on science as the result of covid wasn't working in good faith to begin with. If that's the case for you and the people around you, I don't know how to speak to that.
shugthedug3@reddit
It's not just Belgium.
You ask people to make the serious changes to their lifestyles that are required and most will refuse.
We're good at the little things but when the reality that our lifestyles are incompatible with making a difference sets in there's very few people alive who are prepared to make a sacrifice. It's not possible in many cases, especially if supporting a family.
Kunstfr@reddit
I also disagree. Most people I talk to don't want to change a single thing in their lives. The public doesn't even hate the capitalist class as long as they can have their shitty suburb house with their shitty suburb cars.
ChewsOnRocks@reddit
Anyone still confounded by what the potential sources are of the great filter have their heads in the sand. At this point, I’m actually hoping it’s fast enough to where some of the people that made this bed can experience some of the horror they have created for the rest of humanity, and maybe even encounter justice when weather patterns become too erratic for even the dumbest of people to deny that something has gone terribly wrong. I would gladly bear that hellscape if the fuckers that kept us on this course to line their pockets had to bear it as well.
SellaraAB@reddit
No matter what, they survive in their compounds, and the innocent suffer.
shugthedug3@reddit
The techbros don't stand a chance, the horde will find their way in when desperate enough.
shugthedug3@reddit
Have come to the same conclusion myself. Timeline wise I should be 'fine' but we're certain to see a rapid acceleration of negative impacts that everyone is already feeling.
Of course the people denying climate change have a similar mindset, they'll be worm food too. Most of them seem to believe there's nothing more important than amassing pointless wealth for their successors to spend in an irreparably damaged world though.
Vanceer11@reddit
It’s crazy that hundreds of millions of people automatically feel this way, just so a few hundred can continue making more money…
klutzikaze@reddit
I totally agree. We played it wrung. We did our best but the greedy and the stupid tipped the scales.
The thing that really pisses me off is that Israel was fine during the younger dryas and probably will be fine this amoc collapse again so all that genocide and brain washing worked out for them. Proof there's no justice.
Forgotlogin_0624@reddit
Climatically sure, but they require US support to genocide a bunch of unarmed people. US is not going to be in a position to aid Israel by that point, as the same climate shifts are going to destabilize the US internally.
So unless Israel creates a fully independent domestic weapons manufacturing industry that requires no external inputs they’re not going to be able to resist their neighbors who will have both cultural and material reasons to war with them.
Honestly I expect Israel to enact the Samson contingency, probably kick of WW3, and destroy itself.
Beer_Gynt@reddit
They were ripped apart by wildfires earlier this year and the sheer volume of bombing has showered their entire population in untold amounts of poison, not dissimilar from what happened to first responders on 9/11. They are absolutely not getting away with it in the end.
Treadwheel@reddit
At this point I want to live through it so I can track down every climate denying fucker I can find, look them in the eyes, and tell them they did this. It won't help, they won't acknowledge their complicity, but it still needs to happen.
Toomanyeastereggs@reddit
Yeah I’m with you. I live my life as best as I can whilst knowing that it’s too late to change things.
Luckily I also live in a part of the world that has its shit together and is far away from most of the madness. So at least my kids and grandkids are going to be shielded from most of the worst of it. Hopefully for the next couple of generations.
shugthedug3@reddit
It's hopeless. People keep electing climate change denying, corrupt politicians.
It has become clear that we're on the path to destruction and have no intent of slowing the march or putting a proper effort into mitigating the inevitable.
Bimlouhay83@reddit
This should be the most important, most talked about, most shared topic. Instead, we're all more concerned (I'm guilty as well) about the daily whining of some syphilis rattled Russian asset. Good god, we're fucking stupid.
SsooooOriginal@reddit
A young woman has been making headlines for a long time now.
The states didn't even have a full third of voters show up to vote against the current bs.
I don't agree with accelerationists at all, but they are getting their way simply because we are collectively very lazy and ignorant.
chowderbags@reddit
The most frustrating thing is that at this point, even if the Republican party "collapses" to a permanent cap of 40% of the vote, they've entrenched themselves so much that they can block literally everything America could even try to do to fix shit for decades, minimum.
And that's just one country that's fucked. It's similar bad news for every country. The entire world could see literally the best leadership it has ever had for the next 50 years in a row... and it still probably won't matter.
For any alien archeologists out there sifting through internet comments. It's primarily the Baby Boomer's fault.
Coolenough-to@reddit
Will it be like 'Day after Tomorrow' or 'Waterworld'? Because if its like 'Waterworld' can we all wear bathing suits all the time?
Saorren@reddit
to be fair that asset is helping to make those problems worse across the board.
wet_suit_one@reddit
As soon as he was elected, it was clear as day that all efforts at addressing climate change were going to be less successful.
The man's election is not an insignificant event with respect to climate change.
Hopefully the damage isn't critical, but it all but certainly won't be negligible. That's not in the cards.
Bimlouhay83@reddit
For real. Just take a look at EPA funding. This year, there's $300,000,000 from the infrastructure package and another $25,000,000 available, federally, for EPA clean up grants. Next year, that fund goes to around $13,000,000. This is grant money for communities across the entire nation. Some of these sites that need remediation can easily be in the millions. So, these labs just won't be cleaned. The defunct and dilapidated factories will still stand, full of asbestos, heavy metal and chemical contamination, and god knows what. This puts a halt to more residential building, condos apartments. This is reducing future housing supply while also further allowing the contamination of rivers, aquifers, and our soil.
Beer_Gynt@reddit
I mean, Biden claimed he was gonna work to stop climate change and brought oil production to record highs while ceding even more indigenous land to oil and mining companies. None of these people are on our side.
sarges_12gauge@reddit
That’s an incredible amount of cope to absolve other places of responsibility. From its peak the US has actually tied the EU for largest decrease in emissions while Canada and Australia have taken the mantle of largest per capita emitters outside of the gulf.
Is everybody else in the world just not going to bother anymore because an asshole was elected to the country generating 12% of worldwide emissions? If the US doesn’t lead nobody does it?
Either-Arachnid-629@reddit
What they aren’t saying is that it’ll probably mean extremely hot summers in the countries along the South Atlantic.
Where I live, summers already average 30 °C, and the Arctic return of the AMOC keeps ocean temperatures cooler here in Northeastern Brazil... so yeah, fuck me.
Gordon_frumann@reddit
And cold winters in Europe
physicsworld.com/a/atlantic-current-circulation-could-shut-down-say-climate-scientists/
okseniboksen@reddit
I can’t freaking wait for my nice temperate climate to become a barren tundra by the end of the century.
Gordon_frumann@reddit
Can’t wait to hygge on the local kælkebakke all winter long
VintageGriffin@reddit
95% of scientists agree with whoever is funding them. Everything is political now, so it's really hard to take anything anyone says at face value anymore.
While I don't necessarily disagree with the message, I do find that it is being used to drum up hysteria and further ideas and solutions that would otherwise have been very hard to justify to the population in general, such as: * you need to stop eating meat and start eating bugs, because protein comes from meat and animals fart too much * you need to reduce your travel, because your 0.000000031% of lifetime carbon emissions compared to a celebrity or a millionaire are too much for the planet * oil is bad, but plastics, pharmaceuticals, infrastructure, energy, transportation, fabrics etc. come from from oil as well but we prefer to pretend that's not the case * more taxes on emissions, the proceeds from which do nothing to help reduce those emissions. * etc.
As in, means to create new or monopolize existing markets, or exert more control - all in the name of "saving the planet". Also see "but think about the children" and the recent online age verification trend.
All the while disagreement or non compliance is ostracized, and treated as if refusing to donate to an obviously fake charity in support of "X" is being fundamentally against "X" and not the scam itself, or something.
azriel777@reddit
100%, this is scaremongering by globalists to steal farmland, take away traveling, force people to eat bioengineered/bug food, etc. Notice how they want US to change, but none of the rich elites will be required to do this. They wont give up their cars, yachts, planes, what they eat, etc. And this is not even mentioning places like china that produces the overwhelming pollution, yet they ignore them. Its all a scam.
TheGreatBatsby@reddit
Fucking Jesus, people like you make me weep for humanity.
VintageGriffin@reddit
Care to explain?
re_carn@reddit
And how accurate are these models? I have some doubts that it is possible to make any reliable predictions 300-500 years into the future.
soulsteela@reddit
If you live in the U.K. you need to look at Canadian winter to see what’s coming, people are going to die, the cold, roofs collapsing, essential services unable to cope. We’ve maybe got a few years but it’s coming because we aren’t even trying to sort it.
Okay-Crickets545@reddit
Upper middle class generally IS working class. They’re just more likely to be in high-paying jobs. A poor slumlord has more in common with billionaire than with a poor working man and similarly a neurosurgeon has more in common with a burger flipper than we some business owner living off the labour of others. Trying to subdivide the working class into different economic brackets is anti-labour bullshit that only serves the bourgeoisie. Class consciousness is essentially if we’re getting this world back on track.
MisterViperfish@reddit
We’re seeing a big uptick in Tuna sightings further north around the Grand Banks. One woman had her fingers “degloved” when a Tuna unexpectedly took her jig line closer to the coast. Dunno what sort of impact we might be seeing on the local environment if more southern species start coming north. We’re also seeing more Polar Bears down south as more of the ice breaks up and they’re force ashore to look for food.
Cordura@reddit
But did the scientists ever consider the shareholders?
Jacinto2702@reddit
Won't somebody think of the poor shareholders?
Savamoon@reddit
I mean redditors never do, at least the government does.
Overlord1317@reddit
The profits from ignoring climate change have been, and will continue to be, overwhelmingly "earned" by those who have the power to do something about climate change.
The costs of ignoring climate change have been, and will continue to be, overwhelmingly borne by those who do not have the power to do something about climate change.
The interplay of these two dynamics is why nothing meaningful has been, or ever will be, done about climate change.
c0mputar@reddit
Why would the effect be sudden?
If AMOC is weakening, won't these seasons get more and more extreme?
An AMOC collapse just means those extended weather conditions won't get any more extreme (ignoring other second order effects).
archontwo@reddit
It might be also worth pointing out apart from the CO2 bogey man. That the earth's poles are over due for a reversal
wet_suit_one@reddit
The next Carrington event can't come soon enough I guess...
No-Argument-691@reddit
Someone tell Thunberg about China and her Yacht maybe then she can help the planet
Idrialite@reddit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque
wet_suit_one@reddit
Bah!
Whatever.
We apparently were never going to take climate change seriously until it became serious.
Well, this sounds like things getting serious.
It's about time.
And it's also too late.
Stupid is as stupid does and this is grade A stupid right here. Hopefully we get ourselves in order before even worse happens. Probably not though. Seems like to me that feedback mechanisms may have kicked in already and we've already lost our ability to influence the future.
Ah well.
Nothing lasts forever right?
:-/
whooo_me@reddit
They really need to start publishing the cost, to make people pay attention. Maybe a “necessary tax increase”, even better.
Saorren@reddit
projected land loss, projected weather intensification cost including the cost of increased insurance rates or even the impact of insurence companies refusing to cover certain areas, the changes to areas that will be habitable, the increase in crop instability due to higher and lower extremes, etc.
yup i agree they should start pushing just how much this can and will hurt the pocket book.
CrazyBelg@reddit
Just accept that we will only be making slow but steady progress towards net zero. At this point even a catastrophic climate event probably won't change policy.
Just have fun while it lasts, we should still be lucky enough to be the final generation to have a great time.
chunderwood@reddit
I have been reading about this inevitability since the early 90’s and it is still inevitable.
nck_pi@reddit
Then maybe someone should finally shutdown Nestlé and the other assholes