Very lost, might enlist? Idk
Posted by magictaco03@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 336 comments
Hello, I'd like to hear people's opinions on my life.
Here's some relevant stuff: 22 years old 1300 TT, 250 dual given, just under 1000 on pipeline CPL, CFI/CFII (No multi) Partway through an online degree.
I've been out of flying for about 9 months, applied to maybe 3 or 400 places, can't land (pun) anything.
At this point I have no fn clue what to do with my life. I like flying, out all this time and money into it, so it would be good to u know continue it... But it seems like an impossible task. I hate waiting around for my life to start, can't save for a house, etc etc
Recently I've been talking to all the recruiters, and the enlisted Navy nuclear program looks good, better than other military paths. I'd go in as an officer but my online degree doesn't count so I'd need to restart, don't really want to. Anyways that's a 6 year program and it would be a good career path for sure but also????? My only career prospects at this point are enlisting???
What am I supposed to do? I'm willing to join although not eager about it.
Very demotivated at the way things have turned out.
I could take out some loans and just keep flying and waiting around for a job at some point? Obviously there will be jobs eventually, but im feeling pretty miserable and like I'm being cornered. I could enlist pretty much right now and then at least I'd have some progression in my life.
What do the people have to say?
Please ask anything I'm sure I didn't include a lot of important info.
đthanks
Brilliant_Snow8822@reddit
I definitely would not enlist, as an army veteran currently flying I'm telling you your gonna get yourself a job that's gonna make your life suck 10x harder than it does now for 10x less pay than an airline will pay you in the future
Embarrassed_Bend_730@reddit
Donât enlist. Never enlist in the military. If you must go in make sure youâre commissioned to be an officer. Trust me bro. I was enlisted. Unless youâre a true patriot military is last resort man. And itâs not gonna help with your flying in no way shape or form. You should know that. Everything is on Google bro. Iâm finishing up commercial here and I got multi next. So I totally understand your dilemma. Keep building your time. Get your multi, high performance, high altitude, tailwheel etc come on now smh
Ok-Chocolate-1133@reddit
If you need a better degree get one. Plenty of online options that count
Apply to guard units for pilot slots donât enlist. https://bogidope.com is a resource. If that doesnât work then
With a degree that counts apply to Navy or Airforce OCS for pilot. If you donât get offered pilot you can turn it down.
If you still have a burning desire to be in the military you could apply for navy or airforce rotc scholarships and if you get one they will pay for college. Do well and you can select a pilot slot out of that.
If none of those work focus solely on getting to the big airlines probably through regionals first. Your experience puts you ahead of the game for airlines but only makes you competitive for military pilot. Keep your head down if you need a better degree get one. But if it still doesnât pan out, go after airlines and do t look back. Donât waste that experience and money spent by enlisting.
shockwave53@reddit
Ex-nuke here, currently a civilian nuke and working on transitioning to flying full time. If you really want to enlist, then great, go for it. But donât go off the recruiterâs words alone. Talk to many others online that did the job. Youâll get some that liked it and many haters, and you need to read between the lines of what theyâre all saying and make an informed decision. Yes nuke gives quicker advancement and more pay, but think about it. Uncle Sam is cheap, and they know the job is hard and often downright miserable. They invest 2 years in initial training and know how marketable you become in the real world for many types of jobs, so they pay you to not run away. I donât regret doing 9 years of it, but I also donât regret not doing any more. Walked away from a $72k bonus to stay in almost 20 years ago.
If you want to fly, donât enlist. You will lose that path, or have to pick it back up years from now which may be difficult. And donât let the recruiter sell you with the promise of a straight college credits and fast track to officer programs. Itâs true, but only in a narrow scope and mostly only to keep you in the nuclear field. All depends on what you really want.
Iâd say get some multi time or time in more types of stuff and make yourself more marketable. More time in real world scenarios and not just going over maneuvers with students. The best candidates are the ones that set themselves apart from the herd. Networking is key in this world. Meet people that fly part 91 turboprops and see if you can finagle some time in one on ride alongs. Good luck!
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Thank you for the advice! Much appreciated
Can I ask why you are leaving the civilian nuke market?
shockwave53@reddit
I either have to deal with the NRC or the FAA. At least one lets me do my lifelong dream.
Otherwise-Pen70@reddit
Retired Airline Pilot: if you are 22 with those pilot certificates and 1300hrs I would push for an ATP. That should get you a seat at a Regional or you might consider talking to a company like Ameriflight. I spent 7 years at Ameriflight and it is a great place to build flight time and get an ATP. Ameriflight only requires 1200 hours. I'd also recommend you keep taking classes towards your college degree as you can find them but as you know, the airlines are backing away from a college degree. Good luck
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Thank you sir!
Financial-Solid-5606@reddit
No matter what you do⊠donât get on a submarine. Youâre almost there man
IHGrewardsking@reddit
Join the reserves man. Try and get into an aviation unit, shake hands. Make friends; connections go a long way
MediocreCharacter359@reddit
this is a deep thread, apologies if this is already mentioned...but air traffic control is an available option in the air force at least.
a tangentially related career field may help you differentiate yourself among other new pilots when it comes time to apply again. Not to mention all of the other transferable skills you will gain my enlisting: discipline, professionalism, core values, a potential network of pilots
i am an air force vet (arabic and vietnamese linguost) turned software developer. feel free to reach out if i can offer any help. (i lurk this subreddit because my daughter is currently pursuing her pilot certs)
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Thanks for the reply!
Current plan is to reach out the the neighboring Air National Guard states, and hopefully get to visit with them. I'll also be going to all the local airports to see if I can get an apprenticeship under an A&P.
ANG told me ATC (so many acronyms this week) would be a good fit for something aviation related.
Also need to look into the cadet programs
sjwarbucks@reddit
Would have killed to have 1300 TT by 22. Iâm at 1200 now at 27. Keep on keeping on. Build that time. Maybe get back into instructing and itâll get you to 1500 quick. Save some money and get your comm multi. Just get to 25 hours, all you need to be âcompetitiveâ for a regional. Keep at it, who knows where youâll be in a year. Do NOT enlist. If serving was your goal and if flying is your passion, figure out your degree to get yourself a pilot slot. I met a guy who got all his time, had a king air job, decided he was bored with it, and then he joined the Air Force to become Thunderbird 3. Or you can continue getting your time, go all the way to the airlines, and then boom. Solid career, good hours, excellent pay, youâll be set. Again youâre only 22 with 1300 TT. Thatâs leagues better than so so many young aviators. Youâre in a great spot.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Thanks for the reassurance, much appreciated!!
SpicemanBlackAces@reddit
I was in a similar situation 40 years ago. Wanted to be a pilot, enlisted in the Navy out of high school. Scored well on all my tests and was offered nuke school, took advanced avionics instead (6 years). I regret it. Six years is a long time. Life takes over and the dream you had passes by the wayside. If I had it to do all over again, I would join the Air Force (quality of life 10x better), and I would join for a minimal amount of time, get the GI bill and then go to college and finish my degree. From there, any number of things, including going back in as an officer and fly.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Thanks for the insights!
capcapslam12@reddit
Join the airforce
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Ok
Cute-Cartographer467@reddit
Somewhat similar boat as u 22 years old I have a bachelors degree 700 hours 100 multi, and no flying jobâŠ
GloomyAd3556@reddit
Army street to seat is what I wish I could tell my younger self. I was Navy enlisted aircrew, now Iâm a commercial helicopter pilot.
120SR@reddit
It seems like most comments are guys far older and In far more cushy spots that donât know what itâs like to a young man like that that hasnât revived any satisfaction for his work or has a place in society. Itâs easy to tell someone in a position you donât understand, oh youâll be good eventually donât worry. Rent is due on the 1st, not eventually.
Bring on the downvotes.
ltcterry@reddit
Enlisting is also not on the first. Though not quite as far out as "eventually." It's conceivable that if OP holds out for a decent MOS that it might take several months to get to basic training.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
For sure. I can see where everyone (most of em) are coming from. I have 1300 which is close to 1500, and legally that's atp sure. But I also know my 1300 isn't really special anymore. Idk.
If I enlist I am not expecting to go in and get treated nicely. I don't have delusions on what I'd be getting into. But it would be a forceful progression in a career field that IS good.
120SR@reddit
Youâve got a good head and reasonable take on enlisting, thatâs what Iâd do. Iâve heard the Nike program is great. Plus when you get out youâll have skills thatâre in demand unlike pilots, thereâs a surplus of us and everyone wants to become one
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Thank you
AgonizingGasPains@reddit
Have you looked into transitioning to rotary wing and going into law enforcement? There are jobs out there.
New_Requirement_936@reddit
Have you considered something like this? https://careers.cbp.gov/s/career-paths/amo/aia
Mission-Regular-4251@reddit
Iâm a recently retired Army aviator with 26 years of service, so hereâs my two cents. If aviation is your goal, Iâd recommend the street-to-seat program. The degree itself isnât what matters for flyingâwhat matters is passing the exams and meeting the requirements. You could have a degree in anything, and it wonât hold you back.
If you truly enjoy flying, Warrant Officer is the best path, because flying is their primary duty. Unlike Commissioned Officers, who eventually rotate into staff jobs, Warrants stay in the cockpit. I retired as a senior Warrant, so I know this firsthand.
The Army actually has a wide variety of aircraftâhelicopters, airplanes, even some jets. Depending on your Order of Merit List (OML), youâll either get to choose what you fly or take whatâs available. You can also pursue this path through the Guard or Reserve. The catch is that youâll incur a 10-year service obligation, so yes, itâs a big commitment. But the upside is youâre still young, which gives you plenty of time to make it worthwhile.
For context: I started as an E-1 enlisted (which, to be honest, was rough). It took me 8 years before I transitioned into aviation, where I finally got what I wantedâattack rotary wing. The journey wasnât easy; there were plenty of tough days. But itâs absolutely doable, and by the time youâre 33 youâll still be young with options for the âbig leagues.â
People always ask about the airlinesâme, personally? No thanks. Why start over for a third time? Civilian helicopter pilots are in high demand and can earn just as much as a First Officer. Sure, FO pay eventually surpasses it with seniority, but I retired at nearly 27 years, so financially Iâm already squared away. For me, nothing compares to flying low and fast through the trees.
And one last thing: drone operators arenât pilots. That job is, frankly, boring compared to the real thing. Some even claim Purple Hearts for falling out of a chairâyouâll know them by how quickly theyâll downvote this comment.
At the end of the day, follow your heart. If flying is what you love, go for it. Best of luck to you. đ±
Feel like I just wrote you a love letterâŠ.
Fun-Upstairs-4232@reddit
You could join and make some connections while you're in. I know some military bases have flying clubs for military personnel. You can also look into CAP (Civil Air Patrol). One of my coworkers did this, and she said the process of becoming a CAP certified as a pilot was relatively easy, but it took some time. She now flies SAR missions (both training and real-world scenarios), building hours and not spending a dime. She almost has the same ratings (no CFI and no Multi).
Also, consider the Air National Guard, particularly cargo and tanker units. They're hiring pretty big right now and less competitive than fighter units.
The good news is that if you enlist, you'll get your GI BILL and can use that to complete your degree..hell, you can crush it if you apply for a part 141 school and get a degree in aviation and/or double major in something else. So enlisting wouldn't be a bad idea for you at this point.
Lastly, since you're looking into the Navy, take a look at their drone pilot program. They're taking enlisted applications for the MQ-25 Stingray program. It's for warrant officers, but it's a pathway to commission and other flight opportunities later down the road. I initially was pursuing this opportunity 2 years ago at the birth of the program. I didn't make a board for the navy pilot, but I was highly considered for this program (and they had a pathway for a Reserve option). It was a tough decision at the time but I pondered on it for a year and the recruiter I was working with is gone and I have to redo/reapply to the whole process as things change since then. I'm in the ANG now and was at the time when I applied for the Navy pilot board, but I was still flirting with the idea of being a pilot for my unit or elsewhere. Now age is a factor but still in the running a bit. I should've just taken it, but oh well. I have a second chance, so we'll see. Leave no stone unturned...Good luck to whatever path you take OP!
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Thanks for the advice!
slbxhaiisnd@reddit
you and everyone else brother. Ive applied to every 135 in the usa and 25 121s. Had my resume professionally reviewed by an airline recruiter. I got 1 interview and no job. Its a brutal time to be at mins. 1800TT here and all r-atp mins.
Unless you have type and time in it you are not grtting a job right now
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Thanks, a lot of the advice has been from people who have already gotten through
Seems uncle Sam is going to be my friend one way or another
slbxhaiisnd@reddit
yeah anyone whos been in the industry for a long time gives awful advice. They didnt even have the 1500hr rule so they dont have a clue how to start a career in aviation these days.
Anyone who got hired in 2021/22/23 also cannot vive you helpful advice because that was the largest hiring boom in the history of aviation. Anyone with a pulse and no felonies got a job.
Unfortunately right now is just awful and probably will be for another 2-3 years
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Yeah I'm going to spend today looking a lot more into Air national guard, getting together my shits for it. And potentially joining for an aviation adjacent position (it would be good to have my A&P, plus this is a good career in itself)
Been pretty talked out of navy nuke. It does look like a sweet deal if I can just take a 6 year lasting Xanax, not the best mindset to go in to it with
slbxhaiisnd@reddit
im thinking about becoming an atc lol
FixedWinger@reddit
Youâre only 22 years old. I didnât have my life figured out until 30, itâs not the end of the world. Have you thought about getting a non flying job and just being more patient until something comes up?
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
For sure. I just can't help the constant dread that I am not making progress as years pass me by. I also know I'm probably being too dramatic.
Feels/looks like the idea of buying a house and starting a family are just so far off.
TNCook-1234@reddit
As a Mom who has owned a home and had a family, my advice is to prepare yourself for a family and to be a homeowner because these are HUGE responsibilities, Your future success is about being prepared and gaining experience (life and work).
Flymia@reddit
You are TWENTY TWO!!! Not 35, chill.
cirque_plc@reddit
Bro youâre 22. You donât need to rush to start a family and buy a house
RichTowel69@reddit
Dude i canât second this more. Iâm a âlate bloomerâ in aviation as they have been saying on this board and i am dreaming of being where you are at now. A house is such a pie in the sky thing now, having a mortgage sucks and when you get one you will always be looking and longing the next thing which is getting that shit paid off. Donât stress youâre doing great.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Yeah I know it sounds silly or mostly based on impatience. Which it is both I guess
ThomasShults@reddit
I just turned 36, and I am working on my commercial rating, and don't own a house. I am married with no kids, but aside from that, I know I can still have long career as a pilot. You have an extra 14 years in me. Don't stress about the time you have too much.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
I hope I'm not in you for 14 years, but other than that yeah it seems like the consensus is I'm being too impatient, which makes sense. I just hate being in the prime of my life and not be making any moves
Probably too much manosphere propaganda.
ThomasShults@reddit
đ€Łđ€Ł I hope you aren't either! Happily married, don't need anyone in me. Lol
sternenhimmel@reddit
Youâre 22 and it sounds like you have things more figured out than a lot of people your age.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Thank you.
FixedWinger@reddit
Youâre going to feel much more dread when you sign your life away to the United States government and then the job market opens up in a year but you canât leave your post.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
This definitely makes sense, thanks
jimbob_isme@reddit
If you want to become an officer, stop talking to the enlisted recruiter! They will make promises that will be hard to impossible to keep, itâs part of the game.
If you want to fly keep flying, unless you can get a slot as a military pilot(not impossible). My school has a partnership with NOAA for their aircraft, you could apply to them. Itâs not military but still a uniformed service and government benefits.
BakerHasHisKitchen@reddit
If you enlist, your next flying job is no less than 6 years and a day away. So if you wanted to fly for a job youâd probably find one in less time. Itâs probably demoralizing right now but youâre only 22, you have so much time left for a career.
If you really want to serve, then go for it. You might regret it after you join and then youâre stuck in your contract and still miserable.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Thank you. Enlisting would mean a career change completely and I would most likely not pursue flying after. I do realize that I can just wait around stay current and hope someone gives me a flying job sometime. I am also aware that in that 6 year period, I could probably (hopefully) land 1 flying job, and that 1 job I land at any point in the next 6 years would immediately put me on a better career path than enlisting now will
KorvaMan85@reddit
If you enjoy flying but your online degree isnât recognized for officer reasons, have you looked into Air Force or Navy enlisted aircrew positions?
You could potentially get to keep in the air while working on an accredited degree with the help of the military. Just a thought.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
I haven't not looked into this, thank you!
freeze_out@reddit
If you decide to look into this, you should look into Coast Guard as well!
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Will do! I've yet to look into them
freeze_out@reddit
Our aircrew are a bit different in that they work on the aircraft as well as fly on missions. If that's something that appeals to you, it could be a great opportunity to stay flying and pursue an A&P. Plus, our quality of life is usually far higher than other branches.
TNCook-1234@reddit
Also, having an A&P gives you additional opportunities. Being able to work on your own plane (in the future) saves you money and having this knowledge is def. helpful!
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
That's very interesting!! Thanks for the info I will be sure to look into this!
AdEarly5710@reddit
Just to add onto this, you can enlist in the air guard and youâll essentially be in the military part-time. One weekend a month. Depending on your state, theyâll pay for your degree, or you can go through officer training school if they end up recognizing your degree. This is the path my CFI took because the guard allows you to personally connect with the people you need to know to get a pilot slot in your unit, but do know that guard pilot slots are also the most competitive in the country.
Imagination_High@reddit
If uniformed service is what youâre interested in, donât just take the Navy into consideration. Checkout one of the guard options or reserves. Unsure of their policies on online degrees. I suspect that your degree came from an institution that isnât recognized as accredited by whatever organization is honored. The army (active/reserve/guard) has rotary warrant officer positions. Itâs a tough program but itâs flying and I seem to think theyâre more liberal with degree recognition. The AF tends to be sticklers for details but it might be worth looking into options there too. Getting a guard pilot spot sounds ideal, youâd spend probably 2-3 years on orders for training and qualifying then youâre back to CIV life while you drill with them periodically.
GoobScoob@reddit
How the hell are you going to land a flying job when youâre deployed on a nuclear submarine???
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Read above comment
Ok-Wallaby-5172@reddit
Iâve got a couple buddies who are nukes ones on a carrier and another on a sub. If you do go that route be ready for 36 hour shifts while your on the carrier or the sub and be ready to be constantly getting burned by steam leaks and losing your hearing from high pressure air leaks along with all that, that MOS has the highest suicide % out of the entire navy so just know while youâll be getting paid a shit ton itâs not all that glamorous
vanillanuttapped@reddit
I'm not a military guy so take this with a grain of salt but if you're a full time military guy in a non flying position, how much more qualified are you really going to be in six years? Presumably you're not going to be flying much and if you're deployed/sitting on a submarine for months at a time and the hours you do get will be very infrequent as well. So six years from now you'll have slightly more hours (maybe you can break the mythical 1500 hour barrier) but you're going to do that on your own dime and how proficient will you really be to pass an ATP or type ride? The veteran status will probably check a box for you on your application so that's a plus but I just can't see this being the most efficient path. Despite the doom and gloom on this sub you aren't six years away from burning Jet A on your current trajectory unless you have some major skeletons in your closet.
This just doesn't really strike me as a plan to get you hired at your dream flying job.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Correct it would be a career change fully.
DefiantSoftware8851@reddit
Maybe the well in your area is dry. But the jobs are out there. Are you willing to move for a flying job? If so, you can drastically expand your search net.
CR00KANATOR@reddit
Exactly this, if you enlist you aren't getting any closer to a flying job, no matter what a recruiter tells you.
PM_MeYour_pitot_tube@reddit
ESPECIALLY if you already have all your ratings, thereâs no real advantage to enlisting. Unless youâre commissioning into a confirmed pilot slot, youâre not giving yourself much of a leg up, and even then there are a lot of mitigating factors. If youâre really hard up for cash, you can join the guard but youâd still be giving up the majority of the next year to Uncle Sam.
TPSreportsPro@reddit
100% this.
ResidentInitiative35@reddit
Depending on if OP has a degree, they could come in as a PFC or SPC. As an SPC, you can apply to be a warrant officer for aviation (at least in the army), but without a degree, it'd take roughly 2 years to make SPC (E4). But even if accepted, OP would have to go through school for warrant then aviation, then specialized training in their aircraft. So OP, at a minimum, if they hit every mark first time go, will be looking at at least 4 years before flying after enlisting.
Source: I aspired to be an army pilot, but wearing glasses stopped me. I went through the whole process just to be disqualified at the end because my vision was like 20/200 without glasses.
Idonteverusereddit69@reddit
You can go straight into WOFT from the street without a degree and without working up to E4. If youâre already in you need to make SPC before you can apply, but coming from the CIV side just requires some good LORs, and a solid packet
ResidentInitiative35@reddit
That is true, I forgot about the street to seat program.
PotatoHunter_III@reddit
If you decide to enlist, go for the shortest time. I think USMC and Army have the shortest years - 3 years (there used to be a 2 year contract, I don't know if that still exists.) Air Force has the longest with 4 years.
The state of the economy right now is very very scary. Not only in the airline world, but the entirety of it.
But be prepared to lose out on flying opportunities as you'll be stuck wherever uncle Sam wants you to be and what he wants you to do.
At the same time, it'll set you up great later in life. GI bill, cheap healthcare, connections, etc.
You'll have a lot of thinking to do. At the end of the day, you're the PIC And you'll have to make a decision.
Flimsy_Shine_4971@reddit
I remember having this exact thought but I was slightly older (27) and in the same amount of TT. Teaching is boring, itâs a means to an end. Donât expect a nice low time flying gig to save you from instructing. Put in the grind and fly. Take days off if you need to and just keep pushing towards your min requirements. I know itâs hard and it sucks. My idea was if you enlisted thatâs x amount of years you wonât progress in your field and wonât gain any hours. Time will pass regardless of what you do. Just stay the course and ride it out and bang out the CMEL rating as well. Fast forward 4 years I had a nice house and a career at mainline carrier. It does get better I promise you and hope you choose to stay the course and keep your eyes on the prize. Burnout happens a lot as a CFI and taking days off really helped keep that in check.
mckegger@reddit
Why not fly Navy? I didnât commission until I was 23 out of OCS. I was lost myself. Now Iâm almost at 7 years in and donât plan on leaving. Flew P-8âs and C-12âs and now just got accepted to go fly jets. Even when I get out, Iâll still have enough time for a career at an airline.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Why not makes it sound like it's easy! I've pretty much only heard that it's so competitive I shouldn't even think about getting in
Could just be recruiters trying to take my soul
mckegger@reddit
Recruiters are going to act like recruiters. Truth is the Navy is hurting bad for pilots right now.
Riko_e@reddit
Air Force vet here, I highly recommend a military aviation career. You already have the skills. The branches might be saying it's competitive, but there is still a massive deficit in pilot recruitment. Being a pilot already with a degree (or almost a degree) means you shouldn't have too much problem getting accepted.
indecision_killingme@reddit
Why doesnât the degree count? Is the degree not accredited?
Remember, you wonât have a flying job for at least the length of your deployment plus, however long it takes you to get spun up again.
What a stent in the Navy pay for any loans you mightâve taken out for Flight school?
What happened to your other pipeline and CFI work?
If you go Navy, what does your life and career look like after the Navy?
Youâre still pretty young and things on pilot hiring sound like theyâre improving slightly.
You definitely need a multi to advance your career.
I would be asking myself how do I get a multi cert and pay for multi time?
There are a lot of questions you need to answer to make your decision. I hope some of mine help prompt you.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Thanks!
Fresh_Willingness998@reddit
I donât know if anyone said this, but have you looked into going street to seat as an army warrant officer? You donât need the college degree and you would be able to fly for the army. Not sure if the other branches have it as well, but itâs a step above enlisting and you will fly within a year of getting in.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Yessir I've talked to an army recruiter about it!
OneBetter6909@reddit
As a Navy Vet. Aviation is where itâs at. Much respect for boat guys but my idea of fun is not in the bowels of the boat.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Yes thank you I need to look into aircrew enlisted for Navy and air force
Do you know anything about how this could transition to pilot positions? Maybe same ish process as ANG?
AcceptableExpert3538@reddit
Army warrant officer is the only answer. Go fly for the army via the âstreet to seatâ program. You will not regret being a warrant officer.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Are you a warrant officer?
AcceptableExpert3538@reddit
Yep. Active duty CW3 Blackhawk pilot.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Hope it's ok if I ask you some questions
Must the WOFT advice I've gotten is from people who aren't in it.
How many hours are you flying roughly? What else are you doing all day? Are you in for 10 (12)? How's stationing look for you?
For flying pathways it seems WOFT, and ANG AFR are my best bets. I have a lot of stuff to put together for the ng
AcceptableExpert3538@reddit
I fly about 150-200 hours a year. As a junior pilot, you have other duties other than flying that are BS, but thatâs how it goes. As you get more experience over 2-3 years, youâll wind up flying more. When I went to flight school, it was a 6 year obligation, but I was gonna do 20 anyway since I was prior enlisted. I cannot recommend the national guard enough. You could fly helicopters for the army and fly for the airlines for your day job. That is extremely common for NG dudes. DM me if youâve got more questions, Iâd be happy to help.
No-Body2567@reddit
I was a lot like you. "I have to figure this out! The clock is ticking!" You are 22 years old. You don't know who you are yet. Be more gracious with yourself. You don't need to have it all figured out, like society demands we do.
I recommend the book "Wild at Heart." Have a read. To give you a quote from the book, "Don't ask yourself 'what does the world need?'. Ask yourself 'what makes me come alive'? Because what the world needs is more people that have come alive."
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Thank you! I'll check it out!
Feeling_Spinach_3961@reddit
Download BogiDope. Itâs an aviation community with many military retired pilots and squadron CCâs offering services such as rushing squadrons, resume writing, AFOQT prep. Itâs a great resource. I was just picked up to fly KC-46âs and Iâm 10 years older than you. The USAF reserves is the way to go for QOL. I have 12 years enlisted and Iâll tell you Ops/flying is the way to go in the military. Additionally, thereâs a page on FB called RTAG Nation where you can post and talk to other airline guys, or retired pilots and thereâs a ton of networking there.
If you really want it, donât give up. Youâre almost there you just canât see around this next corner yet.
Cheers!
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Great stuff, thank you!
GraySkull49@reddit
I work as an FBO manager at a local flight school, and as part of that I handle our email. More than 2/3rds of the emails we get are from CFIs looking for jobs. The instructors we do have are running on fumes as far as students go. The market is bad and there isn't really anything anyone can do.
Military or not has been argued a lot already, and I don't have anything constructive to say on that matter. I immediately see two big reasons why you're at a disadvantage on the job market. The first is a lack of an MER (an MEI would be nice but they're viewed very similarly in much of the hiring world.) The second is the 1300 hours. Anywhere you work pre-airline (assuming you're going to the airlines) wants nothing more than to keep you in their grasp for as long as possible before you hit 1500 hours. 200 hours of flight time isn't a lot for companies, so you need something to really set you apart (also, not sure where to fit this in, but make sure you enroll in cadet programs once you start instructing again. Enroll in all of them. You're generally guaranteed a final interview once you hit 1500 hours. We just had a guy finish his timebuilding here and start his training with Endeavor before the end of the month.)
The job market WILL reopen, and companies will snatch you up eventually. That will likely not be for a year and a half, maybe two years. You might be able to find flight time ferrying aircraft, but it's important to stay proficient between now and then. Patience is key right now.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Thank you guy the input and advice!
OtterVA@reddit
Army WOFT is a good option.
Get your multi/MEI and start slinging drinks or creating content on the side for $.
ChallengePresent2589@reddit
long-term unemployment sucks bad, I feel you. Just spent 4 months applying for a position in my current field (tech) and after 750 applications, was pretty demoralized as well. The thing with careers is that industries go through cycles, and the bad times for hiring usually come after the good times. You will go through 2-4 cycles during your career. You cannot pick a career path based on some kind of short-term opportunity, you have to look to what you truly want to do and stick with it. Because the first guys to get those crazy promotions when times get good again are those who stuck with it during the crappy times.
A few months away from aviation will be good for your overall life experience, but I would keep applying and wouldn't do anything that would commit me away from aviation.
mittrawx@reddit
Grass is always greener, nuke techs have some of the highest depression rates in the military.
IClogToilets@reddit
Why?
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Yeah I've heard about that. They also have great career prospects. Can't say I want to live in a sub or on a ship (even though the recruiters tell me it ain't too bad haha).
I know id be in the suck. But it would be something rather than nothing. I guess
WeekendMechanic@reddit
If you're going to enlist with any branch, go Reserves. From the Marine Corps side of things, an enlisted body is going to get fuck-all for time off to go flying, fuck-all for pay to afford flying, and fuck-all for help when you have a medical issue that needs to be treated to prevent a lifetime of chronic pain.
My USMC reservist friends were able to get their benefits, only had to deal with stupid bullshit part time, and still get to use the military service on their resumes. For an enlisted person, there is nothing you'll be doing to further your flying career.
zporter92@reddit
Do not enlist. They prey on people who feel cornered.
The majors are about to start hiring again. Get your MEI (and Cpl multi? Hard to tell if you have that from your post). The next 4-5 years are huge retirement years.
Do not fucking enlist lol
More_Drummer_3933@reddit
Have you considered Law Enforcement? Pay is decent (depending on where you live) and opportunities to fly still personally or for work
Potential-Elephant73@reddit
You need an in. Knowing someone who works at a place makes it like 10 times more likely you'll be hired. Every job I've ever gotten was at a place where I knew someone.
DameonPiercedNipples@reddit
Go army 11x option 40. Get your tab. Catch the ground invasion of Iran. Work with some unit guys. Make 5, do some team leader time. Jump master, master breacher. Take the long walk. Deploy to syria. 60 goes down on first raid. Hurt your back. Med board with 100% disability. Use VR&E to continue flying. Get a degree with GI bill. Make it to the airlines and get furloughed after covid 2034. Buy some land and never pay property taxes again. Work at a card trading shop part time and play war thunder.
sox412@reddit
Have people forgotten who is at the helm of the US military or are they all just cool with the Trump regime?
Y0uMadD0g@reddit
United alone updated their projections for an additional 1000 new hires next year
CobaltGate@reddit
And we're looking at around 30,000 ATP licenses issued by the FAA for 2023-2025. You do the math as far as supply/demand.
Y0uMadD0g@reddit
So you're advocating for him to enlist and take 6 years off completely? The math is never good in this business. You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
CobaltGate@reddit
Not advocating for that at all..... why do you think it is ultimately only some sort of a binary choice? As far as the math not being good, I can agree with around 30,000 ATP licenses being issued between 2023 and 2025. One has to be realistic about their chances and/or their potentially modified timelines depending on what choices they take.
Y0uMadD0g@reddit
How many of the 30000 are current airline pilots either at a major or a regional? Why's that number matter for OP?
CobaltGate@reddit
That's a great question. How many do you think it is? The number matters because it is substantially more than the historical number as far as supply of pilots as far as a continuum. You honestly don't see the connection? It is about supply and demand at the level of regional airline hiring. Even for 2025, we are supplying too many pilots with around 50% more than the trendline for this year.
Y0uMadD0g@reddit
So how about when the trendline stops and it's not a fad anymore fed by flight school ad campaigns and social media influencers (circa 2008 when I began flight training). Queue another "shortage" within the decade. Then OP will still be serving on a US military contract unable to get on the next wave if he drops out.
What is anyone's "chances" to get hired ever? In 2015 hiring began after the financial crisis of 2008, which is when I began my airline career. 5 years later the industry was about to collapse and everyone was gonna be on the street. Your question is vague "somewhere" and "some point" are questions we ALL ask ourselves on this career path. What I can say with 100% certainty is if OP gives up right now he's not getting hired in a cadet program, a flight school, or scrubbing toilets at the nearest FBO.
CobaltGate@reddit
Yeah, how about it? I mean, we can certainly speculate about 'when the trendline stops' but all we really have to go on is the actual data as far as issued ATPs by the FAA. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see another fake 'shortage' show up on social media and elsewhere. Not sure what OP will be doing because that will be up to him. Personally, I wouldn't recommend an apparently hard to fill military career field that multiple people on the thread warned them about, but they'll have to make that decision for themselves.
Yes, good question.....what are the chances? We don't know.....so probably best to just see what the facts are as far as projected pilot retirements (and the resulting hires that will take place after). Also useful to know is what is happening regarding pilot supply. Will ATP licenses still be high, year after year, as they have been for three years running? Time will tell.
As far as your 2015 example, that is also what I had read, that hiring picked up around that time and was gaining some steam through 2019/2020 until of course we were hit with a global pandemic. Those were uncertain times, for sure. And yes, everyone of course asks those questions of themselves, as they should.
And while I'm not sure that OP should 'give up' (your words, twice now at least) it is probably best that he has real data regarding the pilot supply levels of the last three years compared to how much hiring has happened over the last two years, especially. Then they can look at the big picture and make an educated decision. Since you aren't familiar with the cadet program likelihood (which seems to be one of the brighter higher spots right now) then you're free to speculate about toilet scrubbing as you mentioned, I suppose. You do you.
Y0uMadD0g@reddit
Well, that's enough free advice for about a decade. See ya on the other side, I'll continue to do me đ«Ą
CobaltGate@reddit
Yeah, I just answered all your free advice points, you had a lot to say....some I agreed with. Glad you'll continue to do you. I've got not problem with that.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
That is good, thank you
Icy_Huckleberry_8049@reddit
dude, you're ONLY 22. there are people out there that are older with less time than you have.
Quit being so gloom & doom.
After 9/11 no airline hired any pilots for 8 or 9 years, so this is nothing compared to that. And if you were an FO, then you were an FO for those 9 years or even longer.
Airlines have always been cyclical.
Wide_Two_5650@reddit
What's tanking you is no multitime, no multi engine rating. Get your commercial multi instrument, and start working on building some multi experience. You'll be surprised how quickly that will open up doors for you.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Definitely, thanks
Remarkable-Wrap7847@reddit
I wish I was 22. About to retire from the Navy and I just started flying. Have 12 hours so far.
JDSMK9@reddit
How did it went getting your medical ?
Remarkable-Wrap7847@reddit
First class medical until told otherwise. Iâm 37 so an EKG was required.
JDSMK9@reddit
It been my dream since I got out , I want to disconnect from the mil life , but every little thing in my va record is a problem for any job I want
JDSMK9@reddit
Iâm 30 been , 80% va and seems impossible to get my license and seems like thereâs no room for more pilots đ€Ł
JDSMK9@reddit
OP where you located ? GE aerospace has jobs for great pay ! Hit me up and Iâll send you links
That_Echo9004@reddit
Customs and Border Protection
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Definitely need to apply for them
Hot_Indication470@reddit
This is the equivalent of running a 5k and quitting when you can see the finish line.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
I definitely get that it looks that way (is that way).... Just can't help but see that I am not really in a special position anymore with the crazy amount of new pilots who have come through with me since covid
Also a disheartening thing is the jobs I've been stalking until I am eligible, every time I move up in hours they move the finish line...
Not to be overly pessimistic, although might be too late to add that in
eltenedor86@reddit
Army Street to seat. As a former enlisted soldier converted to aviation warrant officer listen to me when I say⊠Donât enlist if you have the means and desire to do more with your life. And based on your accomplishments you can. Enlisted was perfect for me after high school when i wanted to be a combat MOS during wartime. Enlisted life paid for my college and gave me motivation and life skills to be something better. But you have your cfi/cfii. Enlisted contract will make you hate your life and the military branch you choose unless you absolutely want nothing other than the mos you are pursuing. Drop a warrant officer packet with the Army recruiter. Donât listen to them if they try to steer you away from it, they hate putting in the work for officers packets. Itâs way more work for no more recruiting stats than a normal soldier. Feel free to DM me if you have questions. Army aviation isnât perfect, but it got me lots of good places. Current National Guard CW3 fixed wing pilot, civilian helicopter chief pilot.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Thanks for the input! Did you do the army WOFT program? In for 12 years?
eltenedor86@reddit
No. That happened well after I had gone through. My contract was 8 years. Seems like a long time, but time flies. Thats over, I have 20 years service. Iâm just hanging out for fun and beer/flying money now. The 12 year ADSO was an absolute dumpster fire move by aviation command. It deters interested and able bodied candidates from applying. 12 years seems like forever when youâre 21. Itâs a long time for airline seniority numbers for sure.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Thanks for the response!
Bowzy228@reddit
1300TT at 22 and you think itâs a good idea to dump everything for a non flying position in the military? Iâll be 34 in a week and Iâm an unemployed CFI at 340TT with a wife , a child and a mortgage . You think your life sucks? You have a long career ahead youâll be one of the first people to get called when things start moving again. This is what I would do if I were you. Go get a full time job that pays just enough for you to start working on your multi and standby. Instruct part time if you want. Stick around bro
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
I appreciate the reality check
Tight-Sherbet8918@reddit
Youâre 22 years old at 1300 TT? Youâre in a fantastic spot imo. And you might be overreacting a little bit to the market. Get a side job and if possible live with your parents for another year or two and save up. Go get your multi and youâll be way more competitive. Work on shaving off any debt you have from school left if you still do. Youâll be okay.
Mid_Atlantic_Lad@reddit
I was about to say, I'm 25 and have been stuck at 350 hours because I'm flat broke and no one is hiring. I've been kicking myself about it but 22 and 1300TT is honestly about as good as it gets.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
No debts thankfully. And college (a cheap online one) is paid for by fathers military benefits. I definitely know I'm maybe over reacting, but also I'm not. I'm only getting older and if I keep waiting and waiting for the hopes of something falling in my lap, I might look back at this time and wish I took action NOW. I do need my multi for sure. I haven't been actively trying to get it bc I am unsure if I'll even keep flying.
Thank you
ATrainDerailReturns@reddit
Bro you tripping
Alternative_Pool_525@reddit
Holy shit, so youâre telling me you have no debt and most of your rating at 22, yea definitely overreacting, take a chill pill. There are thousands of people that canât find a job but in 100000$ in debt
Necessary-Art9874@reddit
This! âŹïž Take a deep breath friend. This is a cyclical industry, if you like flying stick it out. Get a job any job or two, save up, and get your multi/ MEI. You are in a great position with time and no debt. Take this slow time to buckle down and finish your degree.
Side question: Is going back to pipeline or your old teaching job not an option?
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Not an option unfortunately.
I appreciate the advice/reality check
ATrainDerailReturns@reddit
Why are neither an option just wondering?
PK808370@reddit
Yep. Get any kind of job, broaden your horizons, enjoy, and keep flying for fun/currency.
eltenedor86@reddit
No. That happened well after I had gone through. My contract was 8 years. Seems like a long time, but time flies. Thats over, I have 20 years service. Iâm just hanging out for fun and beer/flying money now. The 12 year ADSO was an absolute dumpster fire move by aviation command. It deters interested and able bodied candidates from applying. 12 years seems like forever when youâre 21. Itâs a long time for airline seniority numbers for sure.
Requettie@reddit
Donât enlist. They donât take care of their people.
Figit090@reddit
Dude I'm 36 with 10 times less hours than you.
I didn't even read the whole thing yet I just want to tell you not to panic.
How many people have you taken the time to get to meet and develop relationships with in aviation? Some of this is who you know, and showing them you're worth it and good to work with.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Thank you, and I certainly have not done a good job networking
Figit090@reddit
Dude, no problemo. I can't say enough how the best opportunities I've seen people take are because they knew somebody. Aviation is very social network, and a shockingly small world. Recently I've met so many big names in aviation and it didn't take me long to connect dots in people met after. "Oh yeah, I know them!"
Oshkosh was nuts, full of cool people, and back home there's stories of opportunities in my small town brought about by "so and so did a good job at XYZ and we want them to stay and fly" or whatever.
It's not nepotism, it's just people knowing people and looking out for one another. If you're a good person, you'll probably do ok.
Granted that's not going to get you a shoe in job anywhere but the opportunities are better.
P1ayAccount@reddit
Ugh. Submarines. Lifestyle takes a very special person.
CaptMcMooney@reddit
I'd recommend Airforce, why not, you're only 22, have fun do something different when you get out. make sure to get stationed OUTSIDE of the US, nothing better than being paid to tourist
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
True, and a good perspective to have on it.
PM_ME_YOUR_FOQA@reddit
Dude, don't enlist. Recruiters told me I'd be flying F-22s landing on carriers when I was 18. They'll tell you anything to sign. They LIE man. LIE. What you might get may be very different. You'll be locked in for YEARS. When the hiring picks up you'll be on some boat or on some base watching all your buddies get on with regionals and then majors/ good corporate outfits while you will be stuck with your aviation carrier with another 2-4 years left.
UAL is hiring 2000 next year. AAL about the same. With more retirements in the pipe. There will be movement again. We've seen this before. I've been there man. No calls no nothing - it's very demotivating. It gets better.
You're so far ahead of the curve. You're a CFI and CPL. You can make money doing your thing. You need patience. You won't be a 777 CA at 30. No one is. But if you enlist you'll shoot your civilian progression in the foot for a while.
You're so fucking young dude. You're getting fiddle-fingers. You're one move away from hitting pause on your career for at least 6 years. Calm down. If it's bothering you so much do something else civilian for a bit. A lot of guys have done that. But 6 years is a long time for 22. 6 years ago you were still chasing cheerleaders and getting your driver's permit. Imagine where you could be in 6 years. You could be a regional CA or a corporate CA if you get really lucky you could be a mainline FO.
CobaltGate@reddit
Airlines are indeed hiring some, but in 2023 and 2024, around 11,000 ATP licenses were issued each year, more than double the norm. There is an oversupply of low time pilots that would quickly fill the jobs that would result 'down the line' from the upcoming hires you mention. I keep seeing this 'airlines are/will be hiring' piece being said without the pilot oversupply being mentioned.
Greedy_Camera_433@reddit
Thereâs no way thatâs all for regional airlines. Legacies like to pull from regionals and if anything, the regional industry has shrunk since Covid so if youâre at a regional, Iâd say your odds are pretty good. The bottleneck is at the regional entry level and once youâre past that, you have a decent shot baring no economic black swan event. Thereâs about 12000 regional pilots in the US and there are 5000 pilots retiring within the next five years alone no accounting for growth.
CobaltGate@reddit
Well, as most know on here, the hiring starts with the bigger (majors/legacies) airlines. Once they hire due to retirements, that is usually what prompts the regionals hiring as the regional pilots are usually seeking the jobs at the majors/legacies. So it is a bit of a chain reaction effect. You seem to understand that above, so I'm not really following your 'there's no way that's all for regional airlines'. There is no way *what* is all?
Sure, the bottleneck is indeed the regional entry level. Hence the point about there being a huge surplus of freshly minted ATP licenses.
'5000 pilots retiring in the next five years' is far less than the 30,000 ATP licenses issued in 23-25 alone. That's the entire point.
Greedy_Camera_433@reddit
Thereâs no way all those atps are for regional pilots. Once you get into a 121 gig, you get past the major hurdle and have a got shot at making it to a major.
CobaltGate@reddit
Agreed, why would you think "all those ATPs" are for regional pilots?
When you say "once you get into a 121 gig" what exactly do you mean by that?
Greedy_Camera_433@reddit
Because majors want 121 time. The bottleneck is at the regional entry level and it seems like itâs harder to get into a regional than a legacy. Each regional has over 6000 apps on file for only a couple hundred slots. Once youâre in, youâre building quality time and you set yourself up well for going into a major.
CobaltGate@reddit
Yeah, that's the problem....breaking into the 121 time to begin with given the amount of people that want in. The 'once you're in' part is what I'm talking about.....we can't ignore that thousands of pilots are having to give up on getting in (for now at least) due to the sheer numbers.
PM_ME_YOUR_FOQA@reddit
Jesus. The doom and gloom with you people. I could tell you that PAN AM is being resurrected and will need 15k pilots to fly there and people on this sub will still find a reason to spin it as itâs bad news.
CobaltGate@reddit
Sure, you could fabricate a ridiculous story about a 'Pan Am resurrection' and people would definitely correctly call you out on it. What a absurd comment.
The 'fuck load' number is the 22,000 ATP licenses issued in 23/24 compared to 2K hires.
Let's get this straight......how many pilots are you claiming that SWA is hiring and when?
PM_ME_YOUR_FOQA@reddit
Dude. Itâs clearly a joke. Iâm talking about constant negativity here.
Just give up then if itâs all so bad.
CobaltGate@reddit
Sorry you got confused; I couldn't read your mind given the context of your comment. It isn't necessarily that it is a 'just give up' situation.....just a situation where I would want all of the information possible if I were in their shoes.
74_Jeep_Cherokee@reddit
How many of those ATPs came from foreign or initials at a regional?
In other words, that 11000 number on it's own is kind of meaningless.
Anthem00@reddit
that number thats usually quoted is initial ATP's given. Not additional type ratings. .
Also, the number of new CFI/CFII's issued are essentially tracking with number of new ATP's issued .. so the progression which we all know from CFI to ATP is what is happening on that front. But there is that same "slug" of a number of 2025 (estimated to be around 10-12K) that is accumulating on the CFI/CFII front as it has been doing for the last several years.
As others have said - the hiring is currently at "normal" pace, but there are probably at least 10K applicants at ATP mins beyond what the necessary supply is.
CobaltGate@reddit
What difference does it make where the FAA issued ATPs 'came from'? The commenter is quoting pilot hiring numbers. Your attempted distraction argument is invalid. It isn't meaningless AT ALL to quote factual numbers of ATP licenses issued when talking about airline hires.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Right, this is the middle devil man on my shoulder always telling me.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
I do appreciate it.
If I joined I would forego aviation entirely, and focus on nuclear engineering which does have good career prospects.
I certainly am getting fiddle fingered.
PM_ME_YOUR_FOQA@reddit
Then itâs your call man. There will always be a âwhat if?â. Ask yourself if in 20 years at 42 how likely are you to regret this decision? Are you gonna be fine with what you do? Or are you gonna be bitter that you quit early and you couldâve had a good flying career?
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
To be honest I don't know what I want for lunch so I can try to put myself in that position but I have no clue what anything is really going to look like at that point in my life.
I do like flying, and it's basically the coolest shit you can do
I appreciate your input
PM_ME_YOUR_FOQA@reddit
Well then my best advice for now would be to not change anything. Give it time. The dice will fall one way or another and the correct decision for you will be more clear. You can always join the navy in 2 years.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Thank you
PM_ME_YOUR_FOQA@reddit
Youâre welcome, Best of luck man!
random_user0@reddit
Read up a bit. Recruiters love to throw nuke eng at kids who score decently well on the ASVAB.Â
The washout rate is very high. If you love math and physics, go ahead, but itâs pretty notoriously high. Lots of folks kicked out for being young and dumb and doing young and dumb things in a critical field, tbf. Go take a look through some /r/NavyNukes history.
Hereâs the important bit: If you wash out, you donât get your second choice. Now youâre reassigned at the needs of the Navy, and it wonât be to a desirable and popular field.
vectorczar@reddit
There's a disconnect between the terminology you're using regarding the Navy. You say you'd go in as an officer, yet you keep using the term enlist/enlisting. An officer doesn't enlist- they get commissioned. And you can't get commissioned without a degree. See what I'm getting at here?
Is it possible that they said you'd go in and be a Petty Officer, which, if things are still the same, you would be once you graduate from 'nuc' school. A Petty Officer is a non-commissioned officer. (Think Corporal, Sargeant and the like.)
Also, regardless of enlisted or commissioned, you do not want to go in half-assed (mentally). The amount of schooling you have to go through in the Navy for nuc's is considerable. You wash out of your school and you'll end up as a Boatswain Mate (pronounced Bos'n- rhymes with NO fin) chipping paint on a tin can.
Be clear of your goals and motivation prior to joining the Navy. That said, I was in for 7 years and they gave me an occupation that lasted all of my adult life- Air Traffic Controller.
Go forth and ponder this. It's not a decision to be made without having your eyes wide open. I wish you the best of luck.
round00002@reddit
Everyone has something super long to say. Ill give you a sentence to look up. "Highschool to flight school"
Goodluck man, its a good place to be. Just actually go get everything documented and enjoy the journey. People will push and sway you towards various positions. Consider quality of life, Chinook carries the most quality because anywhere you go you are flying a U-haul so you can bring a cooler and shit
DjangoTurbo@reddit
Brother. Do not. I repeat do not. Enlist as a nuke.
TheMeltingPointOfWax@reddit
Nuke life suuuuucks. It sent my brother to ADAPT. He's better now since he crosstrained, but it's a bad life man.
DjangoTurbo@reddit
Yeah and with manning down itâs only getting worse.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Any reasoning?
DjangoTurbo@reddit
I was on a carrier for 5 1/2 years and worked closely with nukes. Youâll hate your life, plus youâd barely have time to fly if youâd like to keep that up. Iâm not saying donât enlist but there are far better rates out there. Iâm an AT with close to 9 years in. Aim for something in aviation or cyber/IT side of things. Much better QOL.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Thank you. I do think it will be worthwhile to go talk to army about aviation mechanic position. And national guard I'm currently pursuing this info. Haven't heard one person say nuke is good. Kind of surprising, but I also would be enlisting more or less for the purpose of giving away my soul and progressing in a mandatory fashion. So not really a optimistic outlook on nuke in the first place
optimisticKidA@reddit
not trying to take a dump on your plan, but if army aircraft mechanics are as miserable as air force maintenance is, it's not a good life. if you're set on enlisting, at least go enlisted aircrew in the air force. you won't be a pilot, but you'll have the highest quality of life that the DoD can offer.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Thanks for the input! I'll definitely look into aircrew
TheRoadto1500@reddit
When you say youâve applied to 300+ places, did you just email resumes and/or make phone calls? if so, thatâs probably why youâre not landing anything.
Realistic_Ad_2035@reddit
Look at Usajobs.gov. Many government agencies higher pilots.
Realistic_Ad_2035@reddit
Start with the reserves, Air Force.
Dry_Ad_7526@reddit
Donât do it for gods sake.
Extreme-Blacksmith-6@reddit
Military pilot .
donnyjay0351@reddit
Couple things. 1. im 28 with 100TT so honestly your in a great spot. 2. Im in reserves currently they are awesome and I would recommend the reserves like air national guard. 3.have u considered overseas jobs? Bc u are very hireable in china
LoungeFlyZ@reddit
Have you considered looking at flying options in other countries?
Jzerious@reddit
No degree? But theyâre saying youâd go in as an officer. That is a straight lie
z0mbeh8r@reddit
If you want to fly, enlisting wonât help. If you want to fly in the military look at all the branches as they can have vastly different requirements for the prerequisites. If a lack of bachelorâs degree is holding you up in commissioning for a flight slot, look into the Armyâs warrant officer aviator program. Either way remember a recruiter is not there to be your friend, they are there to fill a quota so make sure you are eyes wide open before signing away 4-6 years of your life to the US government.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Going into the military would mean a career change entirely, I would not go in with the goal of flying. Definitely not rushing to sign anything
z0mbeh8r@reddit
I see, one thing to keep in mind since you are close to ATP mins, a lot of companies may see you as someone who will only be there another 200 hours until you bounce for an RJ job. Iâve also been out of the piston world long enough that I have no idea what the market is like. So that opinion is worth every penny you paid for itâŠ
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
That makes sense, thanks!
Raccoon_Ratatouille@reddit
@OP Iâve never heard of a 4 year degree not counting. Who told you that? The recruiter that only gets credit towards his quota if you enlist?
Nuke engineering sets you up for a great job in the outside, but you arenât gonna see the sun a lot on cruises. And Iâve met 4 former nukes, and only 1 wanted to stay on the nuke side in civilian life. A small sample side but it shows you it may be a tough gig over long periods, but hey it pays the bills.
And itâs tough right now but if the legacies hire like they plan to, that will spark movement throughout the industry. Hanging on for a year or two could make a massive difference in the job market, if you can afford to wait.
ZealousidealSong5176@reddit
I believe army aviation warrant officer program doesnât require a degree. Donât listen to recruiters, they are Snake oil salesman and will get you to sign up with the promise of transitioning to an aviation job. Though not a lie, itâs a much longer road and fraught with all kinds of pitfalls.
TheMadAsshatter@reddit
Thought I was in r/airforce for a second.
Okay, look, let me give you a couple pieces of advice.
First of all, if you're feeling lost, I will say enlisting isn't a terrible option. There's plenty of non-combat billets that always need filled, and as long as you make a cursory effort to keep your nose clean, you will probably have a decent quality of life for as long as you stay in. You will be trained in useful skills and pretty much always get three hots and a cot. Also a decent chance you get some once-in-a-lifetime experiences out of it.
I would, however, advise against it if it's something you haven't already considered at some length. My dad was in the Air Force and made no effort to hide the good AND the bad. I had a good idea what being in the military would mean for a long time, and I pretty much always had some idea that I would end up there eventually, so I was already fairly mentally prepared. If you are just like "oh hey, this IS something I can do," with little to no preparation or concept for what that life will look like for you, please take your time and really think about it. It is not at all uncommon for people to show up on basic training, day 1, and regret it to a crippling degree. Also, do some working out in the months leading up to your ship date, if you do go that route. It probably won't completely prepare you, but it will help.
I mentioned already that you have some wiggle room to pick your job, and that is true. The way it worked for me was I was given a list of every AFSC I was qualified for, and they told me to pick 10 in descending order of preference. I got, I think, my 5th choice. It was a decent job, with a good mix of cushy office work and ability to go out and do cool shit, but I also had a 96th percentile ASVAB score, so I had basically no limitations. DO NOT SIGN SHIT UNTIL YOU TAKE THE ASVAB! I'd imagine to have 1300 TT you're probably smart enough to get at least in the 80th percentile, but it is a significant limiting factor if you bomb that test, and the good jobs don't go to the low scores. You will regret being an MP or janitor because your desire to get that bag outweighs your restraint and patience, I guaran-fucking-tee it. And don't let the recruiter nor the assholes at MEPS bully you into taking a contract you don't like either. They can yell at you, but they don't have dick for shit on you before you put ink to paper, fucking act like it!
One more thing. This was less of a concern while I was in, but do consider the current political climate and who is in charge. No further notes, just stew on that a bit.
I think that's it. TL;DR, think this through, and fight for a decent job. Also, just go to fucking college and go the officer route if you can. You already got the hours, don't slog through a (minimum) 4 year enlistment and let that time make you rusty.
YetiInMyPants@reddit
What online degree do you have that doesn't count? A regular old enlisted recruiter will tell you anything to get you to enlist. Get in contact with an officer recruiter and have one of them tell you that.
JT-Av8or@reddit
DO NOT ENLIST. Youâre almost done with a degree, either finish it and go to OCS or join ROTC as a cadet and get commissioned. Likely you can get a scholarship and not pay for the rest of that BS. Then go fly. Get into the guard or reserves, even active duty. Fly for anyone.
Dalibongo@reddit
Not a 767 CA at 23 years and 1 day for Delta?
I have to enlist!
LOL the last few years have really jaded the young folks.
Man0fmanyinterests@reddit
Army WOFT package now or just finish that degree and fly military for other branches. Competitive and lengthy process but something to consider - youâll never do that type of flying anywhere else
Frostwick1@reddit
Going nuke is a terrible idea.Â
snickyboi19@reddit
Enlisted pilot here đđœ. My plan has always been to fly for a living, thatâs all Iâve ever wanted to do. I got my PPL at 18 then hit some lows and my life (dumb kid stuff I though I knew more than everybody else) and I ended up enlisting at 19 into the Air Force Reserve. I had plans to go back to school and just be a traditional reservistâŠhowever, thatâs not what happened. Fast forward to now as Iâm 24, and Iâve been doing the reserves as my full time job ever since I enlisted. Itâs not what I wanted, but itâs nice because I wouldnât be able to find a job that pays this well as a civilian in the current market. Iâm living quite comfortably as an E-5 with a dependent. Itâs not what I wanted to do with my life, but Iâve had my instrument rating and now commercial license paid for by the GI bill. Not to mention theyâre paying for my bachelors degree that Iâll finish next year.
You are leaps and bounds ahead of a lot of people in the aviation world with your current hours and ratings. Itâs not for me to say whether or not you should enlist. If I had to probably do it over again, I wouldnât enlist, but do I regret doing it? Absolutely not. For me, thereâs no way Iâd be able to afford flight training without the GI Bill (without taking out a loan). If youâre going to enlist Iâd highly recommend you enlist into the RESERVES and go Air Force. Pick a job youâre interested in, but Iâd also recommend picking a job that has a shorter tech school.
Iâd recommend trying your hardest to make connections. Go out to the airport and just talk to people. Iâm not even finished with my CPL and Iâve got a job offer for corporate SIC because I made an effort to network. But donât get me wrong that opportunity came from an almost 2 year relationship with this mentor of mine who owns the corporate company. I see a lot of people on here that talk about not finding a job, yet they arenât necessarily making themselves stand out from the crowd. Be different, and make somebody tell you no. The one thing Iâll always remember is him telling me âIâm not a fucking mind reader.â And that put a lot of things in perspective for me :)
-Very Respectfully, A disgruntled Staff Sergeant
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Great insights, thank you very much
Bubbly-Grape3102@reddit
Please do NOT enlist. Go get a full time regular job. Use some of your income to keep flying. Maybe go get a tailwheel endorsement and/or seaplane endorsement to have fun and just keep building time. Go get your multi. Go get IMC experience. Your time will come before you know it. Please do not enlist. Please do not enlist.
Dry-Horror-4188@reddit
Question? Why did you choose aviation in the first place? If you have a love of flying, then stick it out. If you got into flying because you thought it would be a great way to make money, well, maybe think again. I was at your point one time in my life. Just graduated college, wanted to fly, but had family and other issues that prevented me from pursuing a career in aviation. I regret that decision, in a way, but I landed on my feet and was able to pick up flying as a passion later. Bought a plane and now use it for my business.
So right down your goals, figure out your reasoning for choosing this path. You are only 200 hours away from the airline minimums, so think it out. Do you want to pound the ground for 6 years, hating it, or do you want to believe in yourself enough to know that you will get hired, and make this your profession. BTW, I was 30 when I bought my first house.
Flymia@reddit
You are 22, don't worry, don't be in a rush, trust the process and keep working.
Pleasureun1t@reddit
If you enlist. Go guard. I did it right after my instrument rating halfway through my bachelors. A couple of my buddies who stayed in college are airline pilots like right around now, Iâve been to almost every continent on earth and rub elbows with airline pilots AND get paid to do all of it. Not one day goes by where I regret it. Do research and apply for pilot slots at guard and reserve units
DOUBLE_DOINKED@reddit
Go air national guard dude
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Could I bother you to be more specific? I did have a call with NG today and it does sound potentially the best military pathway for me. However he said I should join for something pilot adjacent and then apply UPT while I'm in, to increase my chances. I'd love to hear what you have to say about that, assuming you are in the know
DOUBLE_DOINKED@reddit
Did you talk to a national guard recruiter or an air national guard recruiter? That subtle difference matters surprisingly. Do you have an aircraft or location you want to live in? Milrecruiter.com is your best resource.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Thank you. And actually I don't know, I think ANG... I've been talking to so many recruiters, it's all a bit confusing with NG ANG ARNG AFR.... and whys everything have to be an acronym
I really have no preference on aircraft and am mostly open to location.
DOUBLE_DOINKED@reddit
Just be careful itâs not an army national guard recruiter because you need to find a flying unit in the air national guard. There are pros and cons to all aircraft and bases so my best advice is to check that milrecruiter website and look for UPT boards if you want to be an officer and fly. It does come with a hefty 10 year commitment but with your hours you should be able to land a regional job at a minimum and stay part time. Heavy units like KC-135 or C-17 units will be competitive but still realistic compared to fighter units. You could even enlist in the air national guard as a loadmaster/boom or even a crew chief first and then work towards a commission if you want to do it.
Lazypilot306@reddit
As a former enlisted. Donât. Your flying job might not be right away but if you enlist your next flying will be after you ets. Finish school and keep looking.
juliejujube@reddit
You can fly army warrant, street to seat pretty simply. You can fly rotary and get them to pay for your hours
Boostoff-69@reddit
If flying is your goal I would't go that route. I think you'll be even more unhappy. Have you considered Rotary wing? Rotary is still very short pilots across the board. If I were in your shoes I might find an army national guard state that accepts street to seat applicants(they do exist), get your rotary wing certificates then apply maybe for CBP AMO and fly both rotary and fixed wing.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Ok lots of new info here I'll look into all this thank you sir!
Ok_Truck_5092@reddit
If youâre bored/stressed about doing nothing, do natty guard or reserves. Iâd keep your civilian options open you never know when youâll get that flying job call.
Amster_damnit_23@reddit
Your online degree also more than likely counts, your recruiter just has a quota to fill and lied to you.
It is from an accredited college/university?
harambe_did911@reddit
Finish that degree and be a pilot in the military. Navy is pretty easy to get into right now. Idk about air force
Kw1satz_Had3rach@reddit
How long would it take you to get a qualifying bachelors degree for commissioning? With 1300 TT, you would be a solid candidate for Air National Guard / AF Reserves. I would not enlist (or join the military period) unless youâre intrinsically motivated to.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
I just got off the phone with the ANG. He said, along with all the recruiters I've talked to so far that civilian to military pilot is "basically" impossible. But I could join for aviation related and then do UPT at that point, bc they know me and I have military experience.
Also could be selling me snake oil like every recruiter has been doing haha
frijoles84@reddit
Recruiters donât hire pilots at ANG units
Flying squadrons hire pilots, recruiters just do the officer packet
BogiDope.com and MilRecruiter. See what units are hiring, then go out and visit one and get your app in
Make sure your app is exactly what the unit wants
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Thank you
frijoles84@reddit
Also, friend of mine was just hired for an ANG pilot slot, I helped him get his AFOQT, TBAS, etc done. heâs a 1500 hour CFI with multiple CJOâs for regionals, just waiting on a call for training dates (whenever that is), 100% civilian
Itâs all on you, being prior enlisted helps, but not the be all end all
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Much appreciated!
AnotherNitG@reddit
Hey brother, that recruiter is lying to you to try and get you to join ASAP. I got the same spiel when I started. I had a college degree and was about to finish my PPL (so way less time than you) and recruiters for the guard and stuff just kept telling me if I joined and did X job then later I could go to UPT. If you want the actual lowdown on getting a flying job with the ANG/reserve, go read some of the articles on Bogidope. All you really need to do is take a few tests and then follow guard postings to see who's hiring and what squadrons you can visit to try and win some favor in the hiring process. I did the active duty process instead but even with only like 100 hours of time I got picked up on my first application. Took about a year and the first recruiter I talked to was trying to convince me to join as an engineer because "civilians never get picked up for flying jobs". It's all bs. If you really want it, it's very doable. Just not a quick process
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Thank you for the input. It's a fuckin maze, everyone wants my soul.
AnotherNitG@reddit
Yea no problem. Fwiw, and you've probably heard it a million times now, at 22 you're in a crazy good spot. I'm 27, currently unemployed while I wait to start the UPT pipeline, 200 hours w a PPL, and I think life is pretty good. I wouldn't be in any rush to have everything figured out. When I was 22 I had just started a big engineering job, had been dating a girl for 5 years and was having thoughts of getting engaged and buying a house within 2 years and had 0 hours of flight time. By 23 I had realized that I hated engineering, my gf was cheating on me, and that the cost of housing was going up so fast that it made more sense to rent. Basically, life changes super fast. If all that shit didn't happen to me, I wouldn't have decided to change careers (which feels amazing), I wouldn't have gotten to live in all the cool places that I did, and I wouldn't have met my current girlfriend (who is fucking awesome).
Keep moving forward, but don't stress yourself out over having to complete the "adult checklist" asap. Just make the most of where you are now because you've already set yourself up for success
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Thank you very much
Kw1satz_Had3rach@reddit
Are you talking to a recruiter or a hiring officer at a specific squadron? You need to talk to specific units. Recruiter incentives almost never align with your interests so Iâd take everything they say with a massive grain of salt
SituationSenior7185@reddit
My
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
True
mittrawx@reddit
From my experience and talking with friends who were successful in getting interviews, ANG doesnât care about total time past what maxes out your AFOQT line score. In fact, the unit that he interviewed at preferred lower time in his case.
Kw1satz_Had3rach@reddit
I looked at transferring over to the ANG / AF reserves when I left Active Duty. Ultimately ended up transferring to the Navy reserves. In my experience talking with different units, I would say their primary concern is do they like you followed by can you pass flight training. That said, if theyâre choosing between two candidates, both of whom are like-able and competent, they may choose the one that isnât almost at ATP mins because that person is more likely to hang around and contribute more to the squadron. I would argue that it has nothing to do with training out bad habits
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Thanks for the response
sternenhimmel@reddit
More or less correct. Flying time helps, but a lot of flying time can actually hurt in some cases because they might have to train old habits out of you.
BlacklightsNBass@reddit
Donât join the military out of boredom. Just get a job that pays the bills for now and fly here and there to stay current. Dude you are almost at 1500. Hang in there
GetItDone2013@reddit
First, everyone here is saying this but it's really true, you're 22. You have tons of time. When I was 22 I was in the same boat, very anxious for my life to start. Don't worry about anything right now but finding a path you can enjoy and not burn out on. Going back to college to get your degree is a great option and you'll likely never regret it.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Thank you
frijoles84@reddit
Why would you enlist
No clear path to flying, and a shit salary
How does your online degree not count? Is the school not accredited?
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Online degree not counting is specific to NUPOC program in the navy as they require in person schooling.
My reason for looking into enlisting is I feel very stagnant and want to get career progression underway. Navy nukes make decent income, and it's a good market for them once I'd get out. This would be a career change and not a path to flying, I'd be abandoning flying
PontiusThe-AV8Tor@reddit
On now account should you enlist under those circumstances. Just go back to uni and finish it you're 22yrs old for gods sake!
Apply to Annapolis and get a degree from there whilst also earning money and also securing your future! Or the equivalent. But whatever you join as an officer candidate or officer from your background or you will look back in 10 years time and realize quite how much time you've wasted and now how your career is being held up for the want of that initial degree.
As a civvy pilot any airline will want it anyway so it's win win!
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Thank you
illimitable1@reddit
You have to understand that joining the armed services presents Uncle Sam with a blank check written in the amount of your life. You will belong to Uncle Sam. Any idea you might have of what you'd like Uncle Sam to use you for is possibly irrelevant.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Good way to put it thank you
Pileopilot@reddit
Have you looked at a WOC path with the guard or army?
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
I've looked into army WOFT, Haven't heard of the guard WOC. I will look into this thank you.
If you have anything else to say about it any guidance would be appreciated
Pileopilot@reddit
Iâve been out of the loop for a many years now, but talk to a recruiter about coming in as a WOC (Warrant Officer Candidate) with a flight path. If the states have too many pilots or slots are filled, itâll be a miss, but itâs not a horrible path.
When you deal with these recruiters, make sure you remember that you can always walk away. If you donât like the terms, say so. If you donât know what something means, ask. Donât go in expecting them to do anything special, youâve got to be your biggest advocate when signing up. I just wish someone had told me that.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Thank u sir!
shadow-of-a-doubt@reddit
What does "online degree doesn't count" mean exactly and who told you that? If you have any Bachelor's degree that should be sufficient, so long as you meet the GPA requirements for the officer community you are applying to. Some communities require STEM specifically but most take any Bachelor's.
I am not understanding why you would have to restart a degree program either way. Even if you just have an Associate's degree, it should still be at least partially creditable at another university to finish through a Bachelor's.
Don't let the recruiters try to sell you on enlisting when you qualify for commissioning. And more importantly, don't do either if you aren't actually looking to serve. Being in the military is hard enough even for those that do want to be there.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Navy NUPOC (nuclear engineering) program requires an in person degree in order to go through that. I probably wouldn't do any other military programs, this one seems to be the best and most academic thing in the military.
Information was told to me from an officer recruiter and it can be found on their program authorization form.
My credits at the online school do not transfer to brick and mortar, idk man. Online schools silly it's just for the piece of paper. This would be fine for all other things except military healthcare and nuclear.
Fulcrum58@reddit
If youâre talking about being a navy nuke Iâm 99% sure it doesnât require a degree, I was in the sub community and worked with Nukes every day. Iâm not sure why you would want to do that program if your end goal is the airlines. Itâs a 6 year commitment with a 2 year training course thatâs VERY challenging with about a 45% attrition rate. Once you make it to a carrier or god forbid a submarine youâre looking at 2-3 section duty (every 3 days spending a whole day and night on board working), long deployments with even longer days prepping for stringent inspections, pretty much working your ass off for 4 years and kissing any free time good bye. I wouldnât highly advise against that route, the navy has to offer 60-100k to these guys to get them to re enlist after their first contract.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Yes navy nuke doesn't need a degree. This would be a career change and I'd no longer pursue flying.
I have not heard a single good thing about navy nukes so far today haha
Fulcrum58@reddit
I would HIGHLY recommend against it lol. The recruiter will sell it to you like itâs a walk in the park and once youâre out youâll be making 150k plus working at a plant, which it does set you up good coming out of it but those 6 years might be the worst 6 years of your life. I know the current situation can suck, but everyday I wake up, going to work and flying lessons after, Iâm grateful to not be in the navy and underway on a submarine.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
I appreciate it
Fulcrum58@reddit
One more thing, Iâm grateful for the opportunities the military has provided for me after getting out, good job and a way to pay for most of my ratings going forward, and I would recommend it for younger people out of high school if they donât have a way to pay for college/flying, maybe just not the nuke route lol. However your situation is very different, youâre young with 1200 hours, I donât know much details about the hiring situation now but I donât think itâs worth it at this point for you. If your passion is flying I can promise the path of nuclear engineering even after getting out would be anywhere near as appealing for satisfying. Good luck man
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Much appreciated
shadow-of-a-doubt@reddit
Honestly I don't know your chances of getting into NUPOC without doing it through ROTC or the Naval Academy. It didn't used to be a common thing. I wasn't counting any of the medical/dental corps because those require their own specific things and have a non standard commission process.
Naval aviator or NFO wasn't an option? If you actually want to go forward with active duty and those are closed to you, have you looked into any of the information warfare community? I would stay away from anything surface warfare. You could do HR or supply if you really just wanted something, I promise either of those would still be better than enlisting.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Tbh I have no clue what anything you said in the second paragraph means. I'll take some time to look into that stuff.
My main reason for wanting to enlist in Navy nuke is I don't want to be too old (I know I'm not but I want to get a career underway). So if I went back to brick and mortar school I'd graduate at 27, then be going to boot, getting out at like 35+... I'd be around the same age as people who are serving for 20.
Navy nuke will take me asap, as enlisted. NUPOC will be a bit more up front work from me but I could get in.
Olenole@reddit
Find a job to pay your bills, live at home, build your time and wait for the right opportunity in aviation. Police Academy is 6 months and Fire Academy is closer to a year with EMT added on. Both those jobs pay close to six figures in certain areas with great benefits. I did the public safety route during COVID when I was a fresh CFI with no aviation prospects. I made good money and paid off my flight school loans for 3 years while the industry recovered and built my hours on my days off. I have my ATP now and work fly for the airlines. Also when I went to interviews, they loved that I had some non-aviation life experience besides being like a million other college kids with 1500hrs.
If this is your dream then you can make it work. A 6 year enlistment is not your only option. If you do go into the military at least try to go army warrant officer so you can fly rotor. Good luck!
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Thank you for the input!
sethitt@reddit
Iâm 43 and taking my IFR check ride this November. That leaves years ahead of me before I can even consider getting any kind of flying job. So my humble opinion is that you are đŻ overreacting and neeeeeeeed to chill. You have every single thing on your side- age, flight experience, etc. Like other people have said- get a side job and wait out the lull. I can understand being young and anxious to get a big boy job but i think taking a 6 year break would be a classic young man blunder.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Thank you, and I do need to chill yeah.
I think I needed to hear it from 50+ random online people haha
Living-Radish@reddit
Iâm 23 currently getting my cfi, with 250 hours right now. Youâre a whole 2 years ahead of me including your hours. Of course that doesnât pay the bills, but personally I would do a side job and continue to look for flying jobs even if it took a year or so. Why stop at 22 with 1300 hours, youâre far ahead of most your age. Even if you pick up instructing again at 23, youâll have 2-2.5k hours by 24 and youâll hopefully be more competitive for the future.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Thank you
Airport_Nick@reddit
If you can see if you can talk to a Navy ROTC officer. This was a tip my step dad gave me when I was in the same boat as you. Recruiters were selling me the same thing as you, nuclear program. Reason he told me to ask is because an ROTC officer is looking for future officers on college campuses and recruiters are looking to get enlisted numbers. You are looking more Officer route and might get a different point of view on guidance from ROTC leadership. Good luck in whatever you do. Itâs hard early on.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Thank you! Will do!
ThisIsMyHandleNow@reddit
From an enlisted naval nuclear submariner turned pilot - please consider just about any job in the Air Force before NNPP. Iâd be happy to discuss more if you have questions about the job and are truly interested in it.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Could you elaborate? The navy nuke sounds like a sweet deal. Honestly not sure what questions to ask you but I'd love to hear whatever you have to say.
ThisIsMyHandleNow@reddit
I will send you a message.
LikenSlayer@reddit
Had a buddy in same position as you. He joined AF reserves & also got hired on CBP. Hes loving it now.
https://careers.cbp.gov/s/career-paths/amo/aia
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Thank you sir!
OffRdX@reddit
Iâve been in the nuclear program for 21 years.
Donât.
Message me if you want to talk about it.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Sent you a message thank you
CannonAFB_unofficial@reddit
I got nothing other than I went to OTS and was an AD USAF pilot. I know Navy nuke life is miserable, or Iâve heard that from literally everyone Iâve met who did it. Officer or enlisted.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Yeah I keep hearing that
Can you select pilot and then assuming you don't flunk classes, get it? Or is it select pilot, and then needs of the military and only a couple pilots go through?
CannonAFB_unofficial@reddit
You apply directly for rated (flying) or non rated (non fliers). So youâll know what youâre going to before you show up. I was a CSO for about 7 years before I crosstrained to pilot. I had about 500 TT, PPL and IR when I was picked up for CSO.
Enlisting first for AD does not help your chances. If anything, itâs more difficult. But consequently, enlisting in the ANG typically DOES help your shot at pilot if youâre getting hired at the same unit. Every ANG pilot in my UPT class was a prior E.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Thank you!
MPK49@reddit
Touchy subject but a valid one; I wouldnât really want to enlist under the current president. He does whatever he wants with all of the government assets whether itâs their job or not.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Yeah, very valid point and something I have shared with people around me too.
I would be joining with the understanding that I'm potentially likely to fight for something I dont believe in. Idk how I feel about that. I'm just rotting away right now so idk
MPK49@reddit
Literally everyone I know that has done time in the military describes it as rotting away as a government asset.
The way you're feeling is an incredibly common feeling at your age. I have days like that with an amazing wife and job. Sometimes you just don't have wind in your sails.
I'd go talk to a therapist, dig into what you're feeling more and they can help you set some goals that might get you feeling better.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
I appreciate it, thank you
ltcterry@reddit
Enlisting sounds like an easy way out. It's not. There is a reason people say " I work *for*..." some company, but "I am *in* the Army or other branch of service..." *In* is a pretty serious commitment.
I'm a frazzled CFI is *NOT* a good reason to join. Want to serve your community? Join the Army National Guard. It will cover you for about six months of income through basic training and advanced individual training. Then you'll have a drill weekend once a month.
Why isn't your degree accepted? Is it accredited? You might find it faster to do a masters degree than a bachelor's from scratch.
Hang in there. There's a huge back log of people out there looking for jobs. But you have your whole life ahead of you.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Thank you
Few-Introduction3855@reddit
If you want to be an air force pilot, the generally accepted easiest/fastest way is ROTC. Basically like taking a college class and they have 3 year programs (they might have 2 year).
Only caveat is youâll obviously need to find a way to pay for school, and your chances of getting a pilot slot arenât 100%, though as of late itâs been a pretty high acceptance rate.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
I think flying military isn't really a viable route. I'd be doing a career change. I mean I certainly would like to fly mil especially national guard air force reserve type things
I went to talk to air force and they told me I can't go through any application until I graduate fully, and then from that point it would be 2 years of "processing" until I coikd even hear back??? So I'll pass on that
Lormar@reddit
The two people I know who went into the nuclear program absolutely hated it. Stuck with the shit jobs on the sub like everyone else, and no job prospects when getting out.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
No job prospects surprises me. The shit job part does not
Mao_Kwikowski@reddit
You have to get a bachelors degree and become an officer to fly.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Yup
Mobe-E-Duck@reddit
I have similar times to you including TPIC and 135/91 experience and canât get any traction. Jobs Iâm qualified for are seeing guys with near double my time applying. Itâs not a great time.
As for the military there are fools, damn fools and people who believe a word a recruiter says.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
For sure. A lot of the pilot jobs that I was watching for long times, every time I'd get an extra couple hundred hours I'd go back and look at them and BAM they raised the minimums. Fuckin teasing me
And I certainly know recruiters are skillful liers. Although nuke program no matter how much it would suck while in has good career prospects in civilian world.
Sad11bee@reddit
Army Recruiter here, Iâd advise against it because any pipeline youâre looking at officer side will be 4-6 years before you are flying. Warrant through the Army youâd be flight qualified in 2 years but looking at a 10 year obligation on the back end of those. If youâd like to DM me I could get you some more in depth info
equal2infinity@reddit
Yeah warrant would be his best bet if he wants to fly. That 10yr obligation stings though.
Even though he wouldnât be âqualifiedâ in 2yrs, heâd be flying inside of 6-9 months right? Basic, WOCS, then flight school?
Sad11bee@reddit
Yeah heâd start the flight pipeline after about 16 weeks between basic and WOCS. As far as actual flying Iâm unsure on where that process starts in the flight school house as Iâve heard multiple changes throughout the years.
MericanCourtesy@reddit
Army pilot here, but O grade side not WO. So take it with a small grain of salt, but 100% he would be flying within 6 months pending any sort of major hold delay.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Thank you I will be messaging you.
Sad11bee@reddit
Sounds good. Iâve got plenty of time today
LtPseudonym@reddit
A lot of people saying the same thing, but I did the military to PAY for my pilot certs. Sitting at about 800 hours rn.
Number one thing you need to do right now is stay focused on your aviation career. I know it feels frustrating to be stagnant, but you just need to make yourself stand out amongst your peers. Do volunteer work with aviation-based programs. Go to the aviation conferences and BS with the recruiters (this is what people call networking). Join every cadet program you can (SkyWest, Piedmont, and Horizon) and keep in contact with your recruiter. Maybe get your MEI. If youâre feeling stuck, go get a part time job at an FBO, youâll meet a lot of owners/ pilots. You never know if a contact will result in a job, so keep that in mind.
I literally got an interview from BSing with every regional recruiter and then sending them follow up emails. In the follow up email I asked him what I can do to make myself more competitive and he replied that he remembered talking to me about something we had in common. Then he marked my application as highly competitive(and told me so). 2 days later I got an email to schedule an interview.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Thank you for the advice
Ok-Refrigerator-9278@reddit
Finish your degree, apply to guard/reserve air force units to be a pilot, profit
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Right. I just got off the phone with my states national guard and they had 1 slot last year with 200 applicants. He and everyone else I've talked to (recruiters) have told me civ to pilot is not gonna happen, but if you join for aviation related you COULD MAYBE get there eventually.
Ok-Refrigerator-9278@reddit
National guard as in army?
For the air force, units hire in specific boards usually once a year but the reserves does hold "general" UPT boards. Some boards can be that competitive, others have 2-4 slots with 50-100 applicants. Check out milrecruiter.com or bogidope.com
Additionally if you're open to relocating that widens your possibility of getting hired quite a bit
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
I will check out these websites, thanks.
I'm open to moving anywhere yup
ApatheticSkyentist@reddit
I wouldn't just default to military service unless its something you want to do. I say this as a guy who was enlisted Air Force for 6 years and has benefited greatly from it. It's a really good option but it doesn't sound like you want to be in the military. Maybe the military is exactly what you as a person needs to get squared away. But I can't know that about you without knowing you better than this online discourse.
On that topic: have you looked into flying as a warrant officers? Several branches have warrant officers but I believe only the army lets them fly? Fact check me on that one. I'm not positive.
Where is your degree from? Could you transfer enough of the credits to a different school and graduate there in a reasonable amount of time and have that qualify you for a commission?
Or... figure out why 3-400 places didn't hire you and keep at it. If that many places turned you down it sounds like something is going wrong: Applying to places you're not qualified for, issues with your resume, background, something else in the way you present, etc.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
I've talked to all branches at this point. Literally just got off the phone with my states national guard.
WOFT is what you are talking about in the army... I've seen people say that after their 10 years they have logged like 800 hours.... I'll pass on that.
I definitely agree that something must be going on with me or my resume. But I also know they the flight school I used to work at gets over 10 applicants a day, and I have nearly only applied for things I am applicable for.... I just get ghosted everywhere.
I think transferring to a brick and mortar school in order to commission is a rough idea, though viable. My credits don't transfer, so I'd be a freshman. Finish college at 27, join navy for 8 years, if be getting out at 35-36.... Just not how I saw my life going I'd hate to be 27 in class with people a decade younger than me. I know this isn't a sole reason to not do it but it's on my mind
ApatheticSkyentist@reddit
Yeah that's a tough spot to be in. You have some big decisions to make. But you do need to make them and be progressing down a path to something.
I will say don't sweat the age thing so much. I went back to college at 33 to finish a degree and finish my ratings. I put off my required sociology 101 class until my last semester. I was 35 and seated next to 18 year old freshman. Did I stand out? Yeah probably. Did anyone seem to care? Not openly or to my face. Would it have mattered if they did care? Nope. I was there to graduate and better myself.
That was 7 years ago and today I fly a Gulfstream.
Find the path that works best for you and chase it.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Thank you for the reality check, it's all relative
Rumples4Skin@reddit
He could definitely go "street-to-seat" As a warrant officer in the Army and fly helicopters, but that comes with a 10 year Additional Duty Service Obligation (ADSO) that starts AFTER 1.5-2 years of flight school (so 12ish years total and plenty of chances for injury). There is also a good chance that he won't fly near as much as he think he might in the Army and further prolong a stable aviation career. Military benefits are nice, but if you're looking for stability in an aviation career, there are better options.
Fulcrum58@reddit
Do not enlist if your not set on it.
MundaneHovercraft876@reddit
As a navy veteran, if you do the nuclear program, you will never see the sun again
Mercury4stroke@reddit
Iâm 26 and in the same boat. I have a job but Iâm hardly building time at a rate that will get me anywhere I want to be in any less than 5 or 6 years⊠itâs rough out there man
Mike93747743@reddit
Finish your online degree and then go rush a reserve or guard unit for a pilot slot.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Just got off a call with my states ANG. They really make it sound like civilians don't get pilot positions. He said I could go in for aviation adjacent and then apply to UPT and my chances would be greater bc I'm known around the place.
I also have to take everything they tell me with a grain of salt bc they are recruiters.
Natural-Primary8169@reddit
Do NOT join the military unless you are motivated to do so in a real way. Your time in service will be miserable. I would get a job and restart your degree at a traditional institution. And keep flying. You can have a traditional degree in 3 years. At that point, you'll either have a job with an airline, or you can join the Navy or Air Force as a pilot.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Yeah I'm not the most motivated to join, it's more a my hand is being forced type of thing.... It feels that way at least.
Having talked to navy and air force they do make it sound like I will most likely not be getting in as a pilot.
robinson217@reddit
Hey OP, when i was 23, my CFI/close friend was killed with another student, and it sent me into a spiral. I quit, mid instrument rating, and lost my direction for a while. At 24, I joined the military. It was the best thing possible for me at the time. Not only did it immediately fill my need for a sense of purpose, direction, and belonging, but it opened doors for me when I got out. Looking back, I can tie most of the good things in my life to that decision. YMMV.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Thank you. I definitely see the military as a way to ensure career progression, and to keep me single minded for the time I'm in
TurnandBurn_172@reddit
At 22 years old, I think your best bet is to transfer whatever credits you can to a better university so you can get a bachelors degree. This will give you time to investigate other career paths while earning a degree and networking that should open doors. There are many colleges with a flight school that you might be able to instruct at during this time as well.
In my experience, if you donât get your degree while youâre young, life will get very busy and complicated with family commitments, and it will be very hard to get later.
The military will always be there as an option, and I wouldnât box yourself to any contract while youâre still trying to figure out what type of career you want to pursue.
Here are some paths I didnât know about in college, but I wish I did:
Environmental health and safety (EHS). Nearly every manufacturing site has a department dedicated to DHS and you will learn technical qualifications and certifications. With a certified safety professional designation (CSP) you can eventually become the director of EHS and make really good money or you can go into consulting with insurance companies. You can also focus on Quality and six Sigma analysis at manufacturing plants, and they have a lot of jobs as well.
Packaging Engineering. There are a few highly regarded packaging degrees in the United States and the industry overall is very robust, with healthcare packaging in particular being a recession proof industry. This is definitely a sleeper industry, but one that can allow you to travel the world working for and with different brands.
If you get a general business degree, or entrepreneurship, you can work your way into sales and eventually account management, which is what I do. Account management can be a pretty stable career with good pay, and the opportunity to travel, as long as you like meeting new people.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Thank u sir
tempskawt@reddit
Please look into the Army and Air National Guard
When they say your degree doesn't count, what verbiage are they using? It's an uphill battle to commission with an online degree, but you shouldn't be disqualified altogether if it's accredited.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Doesn't count was specifically for the Navy nuclear program. For pilot and other stuff it would be fine. That's why I started it in the first place but I just recently found out about NUPOC
JAMONLEE@reddit
Do not enlist, this will be a major QOL decrease from what youâre currently experiencing. In 6 years you MAY have some skills thatâs are valuable in the civilian world, but they wonât be about flying.
Work a regular job and continue flying on the side, someone will pick you up if you at a minimum maintain currency
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
If I enlist it would be for the Navy nuclear program. That is "certainly" going to have good civilian career prospects. Department of energy prefers to hire navy nukes, and mr Elon and other dystopian ai companies are in talks about using nuclear. So I don't think it would be a bad idea, it just has nothing to do with anything I've done so far
Mike__O@reddit
While it is theoretically possible to go from an enlisted job to military flying, that's a VERY difficult path that involves threading several very competetive needles combined with a healthy dose of favorable luck and timing.
I'm not saying don't do it or to give up, but I wouldn't consider enlisting as any kind of viable path to a broader career in aviation.
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Unless I'm going national guard I would not be planning on pursuing flying anymore
magictaco03@reddit (OP)
Unless I'm going national guard I would not be planning on pursuing flying anymore
GorillaNipSlip@reddit
Lol Iâd kill to have your time at your age. I have a good career myself at 32, but slowly working on my ratings part-time. I hope one day to have a flying job, medevac would be beautiful.
howboutthatmorale@reddit
If you're set on enlisting, why not enlist as aircrew in Air Force guard/reserves while working on a degree to commission as a pilot?
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
Hello, I'd like to hear people's opinions on my life.
Here's some relevant stuff: 22 years old 1300 TT, 250 dual given, just under 1000 on pipeline CPL, CFI/CFII (No multi) Partway through an online degree.
I've been out of flying for about 9 months, applied to maybe 3 or 400 places, can't land (pun) anything.
At this point I have no fn clue what to do with my life. I like flying, out all this time and money into it, so it would be good to u know continue it... But it seems like an impossible task. I hate waiting around for my life to start, can't save for a house, etc etc
Recently I've been talking to all the recruiters, and the enlisted Navy nuclear program looks good, better than other military paths. I'd go in as an officer but my online degree doesn't count so I'd need to restart, don't really want to. Anyways that's a 6 year program and it would be a good career path for sure but also????? My only career prospects at this point are enlisting???
What am I supposed to do? I'm willing to join although not eager about it.
Very demotivated at the way things have turned out.
I could take out some loans and just keep flying and waiting around for a job at some point? Obviously there will be jobs eventually, but im feeling pretty miserable and like I'm being cornered. I could enlist pretty much right now and then at least I'd have some progression in my life.
What do the people have to say?
Please ask anything I'm sure I didn't include a lot of important info.
đthanks
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