Blew up my toy, first time pulling an engine. Any tips?
Posted by travchrav@reddit | projectcar | View on Reddit | 113 comments
Hey all! Finally got a project car, and immediately blew up the engine. Would especially like to hear from Subaru guys. It’s got an ej208 and I’m doing research to put in an ez30 flat 6 from a mid 00s tribeca. I’m a bit nervous and don’t wanna do any more damage than I’ve already done haha.
ploodn@reddit
You're going to forget to unhook something. Take the removal slow, and keep a lookout for anything you've missed
Furthur@reddit
Tape, sharpies, ziplocks, organization, protection from oxidation
Happy-Tourist-5665@reddit
Don't forget to pull out the clutch fork pin if it's a manual transmission. you may need to quickly search up how, because it's hidden away n u need to screw a small bolt into it to pull it out.. also when you're ready to finally pull the engine, jack up the transmission a little bit to make the final pull easier. You do this because there are two studs that'll try to grab on to the bottom of the bellhousing.. its doable without but won't be as easy.. you got this 💪
TotalmenteMati@reddit
you may think you don't want a donor. you'll look for general big parts online and see that you'll easily find them. but those are not the issue. the issue arises when the small shit starts getting annoying. you may find that the oil dipstick tube is different on the tribecca and the legacy, so now you have to start hunting for a part that is not available brand new, and is insignificant enough that nobody even posts it for sale used. and it's gonna happen with so much small insignifican parts, than in the end. it will be cheaper for you to get a parts car
FesteringNeonDistrac@reddit
Pulling an EJ is super easy. Shouldn't take more than 6 hrs for an absolute noob.
Remove the battery. Pull the radiator and fans together and drain the coolant. Climb under and unbolt the 2 motor mounts, the transmission mount and the ground straps. Up top, remove the alternator, unbolt the PS pump and set it off to the side, then do the same for the AC compressor. Disconnect the fuel lines. Pull the intercooler off and unbolt the dog bone mount. Unplug the main harness. Remove the starter and the two heater hoses. Unbolt the slave cylinder. Remove the 6 bolts and 2 nuts that hold the engine and trans together. Only thing at that point should be the turbos. I've never seen a dual setup like that car has so you'll have to figure it out, but in a single turbo car, I just unbolt the down pipe and pull it with the header and uppipe. Chain the motor up and lift it, and then get under the car and support the transmission. Now is when you go around and double check you didnt miss anything and the idiot on the internet didnt forget something. Then you just slide the motor forward. Only wrinkle is that sometimes the bock and trans are difficult to separate. I start with a putty knife and work it in there when that happens. Don't worry about the mating surface as it isn't sealed.
And as lord Chilton declares, installation is the reverse of removal.
I wouldn't H6 swap that car as that sort of kills what makes it unique, but I'm not your Dad, so do whatever, I guess.
ClearMarch8712@reddit
Don't forget to remove the clutch fork pin. The first time I pulled my engine I could not for the life of me get the engine and trans separated. Had to consult ye olde forums and found that little bastard.
travchrav@reddit (OP)
Very concise and detailed. Thanks friend. As much as I’d love to keep a TT motor in this car the twins are just not great engines. They’re high strung and fragile. Also there’s so many god damn vacuum lines. Like so many. BBOD is named this for a reason
Obnoxious_Gamer@reddit
From what I remember the flat six has sweet FA for parts support and doesn't make much power.
The_Michael_Scarn@reddit
It’s your first time pulling an engine and you want to swap it for a different platform? Yikes.
kabobkebabkabob@reddit
And? It's not rocket appliances. I just did that exact thing.
The_Michael_Scarn@reddit
I’m confused. Are you talking about like dishwashers in spaceships or something?
kabobkebabkabob@reddit
Whatever man it's water under the fridge
The_Michael_Scarn@reddit
Holy fuck, that just made me spit out my beer. Thank you, kind sir
kabobkebabkabob@reddit
Watch trailer park boys
travchrav@reddit (OP)
Yes it’s a different platform but ejs and ez share a lot and i’d be swapping in an engine that was available in this chassis from the factory in a different trim.
K3rm1tTh3Fr0g@reddit
They really don't share that much. You were going to be fabricating and customizing a lot of things to make it work and even then the ez-30 is not a very stout or reliable platform for making lots of power. You're seriously better off putting an ej25 in there that is built correctly and can take abuse and power. You don't lose that much torque going from a 3 l to a 2.5 l
Dark_Guardian_@reddit
only way its not going to be as big of a headache is if you buy an ez30 donor car that matches your model so you have everything that you might need
not sure theyre plug and play, especially if youre getting the engine/wiring from a different model
travchrav@reddit (OP)
Plan to go haltech instead of fighting with factory ECUs. Buying a whole donor car is pretty much out of the question, I’d rather a wiring headache than a storage and disposal headache yfm
-ThePaintedMan-@reddit
Do yourself a favor and call Jeff R. at AutoVentures. At some point or another you're going to need wiring help, and he is probably the single most knowledgeable person I can think of for Subies: AutoVentures Subaru Conversions
Dark_Guardian_@reddit
how much experience do you have with cars?
aftermarket ecu still sounds annoying and expensive, but I suppose you can probably buy a plug and play harness?
and you'll still need to buy all the little bits to go with the swap and you'll know how everything goes if you get to pull the engine out that your putting in
travchrav@reddit (OP)
I’ve done some work on cars in the past. starters, bolt ons, a few tunes and normal part swapping. I replaced everything but the subframes in my Volvos suspension. Now I wanna see what I can do with an engine. I’ve been trying to collect a list of all the random bits I’ll need, Subaru actually makes some pretty great technical diagrams!
BagOfCans@reddit
Go for it bro.
travchrav@reddit (OP)
Finally someone who isn’t telling me no 😭
Obvious-Dinner-1082@reddit
They aren’t telling you not to, they’re telling you to get a donor car so you have everything you need from the start. It’s the most efficient way to do what you’re talking about.
travchrav@reddit (OP)
Yeah sorry it’s all jokes I get the point. My main concern about a donor car is that I can get a Jdm engine for cheaper than a donor car with less miles. That’s money better spent elsewhere and I don’t have the patience to part the donor out to make it worth it
Areanyworthhaving@reddit
Subarus share so much between models, I don’t think you’ll need a donor car. Quick search gave me, engine wiring harness and radiator, using different AC components (just delete that), I don’t see it being overly complicated. I haven’t done a 3.0 swap but I did put a JDM sti motor in my USDM bugeye wrx, new ecu and a little bit of wiring was all it took.
Siege9929@reddit
Get a whole front clip instead of just an engine. Much less to dispose of and you’ll have all the extra bits you’ll end up needing.
Dark_Guardian_@reddit
sure you can buy the engine
but what about everything else for the swap you'll need?
youll end up spending more when you have to buy the rest of the parts that the person forgot to include with the engine
NervousAssociation77@reddit
I don’t think everyone’s saying no, they’re suggesting the modest next step for a swap. There’s a hierarchy of difficulty when doing swaps, which is why folks are suggesting the same engine or same engine family, use a donor instead of crate, factory electronics instead of aftermarket, etc. You made a post asking for tips, you can’t be mad when folks’ suggestions don’t line up with what you’ve made up your mind about. My 2 cents, EZs and EGs are not worth the effort, especially the EZ. The aftermarket support of an EJ allows you to fix many of their inherent problems much more easily and cheaply than you could with an EZ/EG. Plus it depends on your goals for the build. If you’re trying to make power or make it handle at all, EZ/EG is not the way to go.
The_Michael_Scarn@reddit
Hell yeah dude, it sounds like you’ve got a good amount of experience and knowledge. Apologies for the doubt.
Time to go fuck some shit up
travchrav@reddit (OP)
I’ll make you proud friend
humandalek42@reddit
Sounds like you’ve got this
kabobkebabkabob@reddit
It'll be fine it'll just take a while
Dark_Guardian_@reddit
send it
if youve done everything around an engine then pulling an engine isnt hard if youve got the right equipment
travchrav@reddit (OP)
Thanks man will do. I know it’s a lofty goal I just am the type to learn by doing and I do genuinely love the car and want to drive it again.
Dark_Guardian_@reddit
storage is dependent on your specific location, but disposal is easy, theres companies that take scrap cars for free
or if you deliver it to a scrap yard theyll pay you its scrap metal value
silvapain@reddit
I get that you think buying a donor car will be a headache, but trust me when I say it will be a much bigger headache if you DON’T buy a donor car for the swap. There will be countless little parts you’ll need, and countless times you’ll look at the donor car to figure out mounting, routing, etc.
LifeWithAdd@reddit
You’re still gonna want a donor car. There’s gonna be so much little shit you’re going to end up needing that you don’t realize.
widgeamedoo@reddit
Dunning Kruger principle applies here. You have your highest level of confidence when your knowledge on the subject is zero.
Everythingisbroken4@reddit
My first time pulling an engine was to swap platforms. It wasn't a quick swap, but I did it successfully and learned so much in the process. As long as you're willing to take your time, learn, fail, and learn some more, it's absolutely possible.
sgt_Berbatov@reddit
Go hard or get trailered(?) home.
Oh wait
pinkbunnay@reddit
Harbor freight engine lift + engine stand. You'll need both.
travchrav@reddit (OP)
Was debating on an engine stand or not, do I neeeeed it
Old_Scene_4259@reddit
Yes, you definitely do
hosalabad@reddit
Label stuff.
csimonson@reddit
So, I've pulled engines on lots of Subaru of these years. Since you're swapping to an ez then it'll be fairly simple as far as pulling it.
Drain coolant and oil. Remove radiator, battery, airbox, intercooler. Disconnect electrical connectors to the engine. Check if you have and disconnect the egt sensor/sensors on the up pipe/s. Disconnect the downpipe/s from the turbo/s. Remove the dogbone from the trans and firewall. Unbolt the engine mounts from the subframe. Unbolt and move the ac compressor off to the side. No reason to let out the freon at all. Remove the radiator. Wrap straps around the intake manifold and position the hoist. Unbolt the engine from trans, you can put something to hold the trans up or let it rest on the subframe. I let it rest on the subframe. Pull engine and adjust hoist as needed.
Might be missing a little bit but it's probably not much. If you have a auto then you will need to see if you will be able to reuse the torque converter or not. If reusi g then unbolt it from the flexplate before separating the engine and trans from underneath.
travchrav@reddit (OP)
Dude awesome thank you for this.
9MileSkid@reddit
If you’re doing it on the ground, once the wishbone is out, everything is disconnected, and you’re ready to pull the motor, jack up the trans like 2 inches with a floor jack. It’ll raise the engine mount studs out of the subframe, so you can slide the engine away from the trans easier. If you have a lift, place a jack stand under the trans and lower lift so the trans and engine lift from the subframe. I worked at a Subaru shop for years, head gasket jobs every week.
travchrav@reddit (OP)
On the ground, thanks for the intel
csimonson@reddit
No worries man. Idk if you're going with a haltech kit or doing the wiring harness yourself or not but if you are doing the wiring yourself feel free to pm me if you have any questions. I haven't messed with haltech personally but an ecu is an ecu. Most are extremely similar.
travchrav@reddit (OP)
Yeah they all do the same things, for me personally I just feel like doing all this work and not being able to play with it would be a waste and haltechs software is incredible. I’ve been playing with it for a few days already
Juanzilla17@reddit
Have you looked into a cherry picker or maybe an a frame if you have the space?
Do you have a spot for the bolts where you can stash them? I use fishing tackle boxes and label them with masking tape in top telling me where that bolt came from.
While you have the other motor out, replace some of the consumables like timing belt, valve cover gaskets, water pump
travchrav@reddit (OP)
That’s actually a good idea I didn’t take into consideration on consumables. Thanks for bringing that up. I got a fairly cheap cherry picker off Amazon rated for 2 tons (1/2 fully extended). I did a few pull-ups on it and it worked so I figure it can hold an engine haha
MunchamaSnatch@reddit
Pull hard, lift with your knees
travchrav@reddit (OP)
I’ve been deadlifting in preparation
meatcalculator@reddit
Calling r/mightycarmods … This is very similar to the Supergramps build. I think they used an EZ36. They also used a Haltech ECU.
travchrav@reddit (OP)
My inspo!
gamercat2311@reddit
lol what are the chances. This is the exact same car and situation that happened to me 2 years ago. First project car and blew it a month in. Due to it being a flat four you have lots of room to work around in the engine bay. Biggest hassle is probably the ridiculous amount of vacuum hoses to control the turbos on the ej208s. Have fun taking it all apart and keep us updated with the progress!
travchrav@reddit (OP)
So many vacuum lines. So. Many.
justin_memer@reddit
The ej is extremely simple to pull, just watch a few videos and you'll be ok.
CableMartini@reddit
thoughts and prayers brother. swapping a blowtorch mustang engine, and all I can say is thoughts and prayers
Necessary-Tutor-1674@reddit
Take lots of pictures and bag and label your nuts and bolts.
AstroCatHD@reddit
For my first engine rebuild, I bought some of those cheap plastic part organization cases and labeled the bolts for everything that came off. There's no way I could have put it back together a month later without doing that.
stevens_hats@reddit
Lots of pictures, and lots of well labeled bags. Text or email to yourself. Example: (picture) driver's side motor mount, bag label: driver's side motor mount. Label every electrical connector with tape, same for pictures.
Seems like you won't forget when taking things apart, but after a hundred or more parts, you will.
Wizdad-1000@reddit
Engine swaps are the hardest project. I’ve only done rebuilds and thats on older stuff.
2006CrownVictoriaP71@reddit
I spent 10 years working in an engine shop and I’ve replaced 60-70 Subaru engines. I can tell you that there is not an easier engine to replace.
My personal record from tools in my toolbox to the engine hanging outside the vehicle is 31 minutes on an ‘07 Outback.
LatexPringleCan@reddit
Dunno if my comment will get lost to sea here but I have a tip for the incoming ez30 motor. While it's out, replace what you need to behind the timing cover. The chain tensioners are a bit of a weak point with that motor at higher mileages and the water pump turns into a "while I'm in here" type thing. The chains themselves usually last the life of the motor. Also the 4 billion hex bolts that hold the timing cover on can be a massive PITA especially in corrosive environments and I think there are a few kits out there to replace all of the hexes with more typical bolts. Happy wrenching dude, my H6 and I wish you luck
sgt_Berbatov@reddit
I've got the same, sort of, Subaru Legacy wagon with the EJ20 engine in it.
If you're putting in a new engine, especially the flat 6, you are going to need:
1) The engine
2) The gearbox
3) The entire wiring loom from the donor car - yes really
4) ECUs
5) A fuck load of patience
So while I am an idiot and do mad stuff, I think it's an incredible lot of money to throw at something that might work.
aj8j83fo83jo8ja3o8ja@reddit
you must have really hated driving this thing, if you don’t want to do it again for several years
travchrav@reddit (OP)
LOL it actually pains me to look at everyday, it deserved a better owner.
aj8j83fo83jo8ja3o8ja@reddit
that’s not true but the best thing you can do for this car and yourself right now is manage your fucking expectations. i just did an engine replacement of (almost) the same damn thing that came out and it still took a year and most of my sanity.
please, your car is begging you, start with an engine replacement of the same kind so you can get humbled. then when you have your life back together in tatters, you can start thinking about a twelve cylinder twin turbo whateverthefuckiswap you are fixated on now
Melodic__Protection@reddit
Do it on a somewhat solid flat surface, not like me, who does it on a slant, in the dirt.
Ornery_Bath_8701@reddit
Take a bunch of pictures of where everything goes and label everything.
Grigio_cervello@reddit
And lay the parts out on a sequence on the floor, in order of removal. Don't just make a pile
Dark_Guardian_@reddit
in a place where you cant kick them
Practicality_Issue@reddit
Use good masking tape and a sharpie to label both ends of all of your electrical connections.
CaffeineTripp@reddit
Don't. Do a swap with the same engine. The exact same engine. Subarus are weird about little variations.
Doing an EZ30 swap is gonna be incredibly difficult and way more difficult than you think. There are people who have done it, but it's time consuming. Probably easier to rebuild what you have and turbo it.
cheeseshcripes@reddit
Agreed, but to go a little further, I have looked at this exact same swap and turned it down, because that transmission that comes with the six-cylinder is super picky about where he gets its data from, what year it gets its data from, because it gets data from the dash and the ECU, where it gets his power from, and a bunch of other things. An Ed30, I do believe it's called, the first generation, is way more doable, but it doesn't have the power.
CaffeineTripp@reddit
Agreed. While I don't know Subaru specifics, the ECUs are incredibly picky. My old 99 with a 2.2 did not like the CAI testing I was doing and ran like shit. Everything needs a tune for some reason.
I believe I looked into an EZ30 as well and ran into the same problem, just too much hassle for barely any more power over the NA EJ25. It would be much cheaper to go turbo with a standalone than deal with that nightmare.
blankdeluxe@reddit
Idk, I boosted a 97 2.2 back in the day on the stock ECU and it ran for years without issues.
travchrav@reddit (OP)
I honestly would if the 208 wasn’t a POS. It’s a really cool engine don’t get me wrong but the twin turbo system is overcomplicated, unreliable and frankly unnecessary. It’s got a huge valley in the power band with the turbo crossover. I’d consider a 205 which is kind of a single turbo version but at that point I should have just bought a wrx. I want something different and a manual h6 wagon sounds fun!
CaffeineTripp@reddit
Oh absolutely, and it certainly is unique. I've looked into it with my 07, but the power and complexity just doesn't match up. Probably easier to swap an LS in it than deal with the Subaru ECU, wiring, and powertrain nonsense.
travchrav@reddit (OP)
Don’t you tempt me…
CaffeineTripp@reddit
travchrav@reddit (OP)
That’s a big honkin turbo over there too haha. What trans do you know? This is a sick build
CaffeineTripp@reddit
He used a 4L80. As far as rear end goes, stock probably. We have a reputable driveshaft maker in town so I'm sure he got a custom one made on the cheap.
Poor thing ended up clipping a deer pretty good, bad enough that the chassis got fucked up so he pulled the engine.
travchrav@reddit (OP)
🥲 that’s a shame. Looks like it was well done.
CaffeineTripp@reddit
As far as I can tell he put a lot of good work into it.
CaffeineTripp@reddit
CaffeineTripp@reddit
Buddy of mine did it. I'll see if I can find a picture.
blankdeluxe@reddit
It's a Subaru so you'll figure it out. Super easy motor to pull. Also, swapping an h6 is going to require the tribeca harness getting wired in with the leggy harness or a standalone. That's going to be the hardest part of this swap imo
tk8398@reddit
Pulling an ej22 takes me about 45 minutes at this point lol, it's pretty easy whether or not you pull just the engine or both. I am very skeptical of the 6 cylinder swap being a good idea though, the engines are readily available and cheap and so are the cars you can put them in, but you never see any that are actually running. I think if I ever did try something like that I would get one from an SVX, but knowing how old and brittle the wiring in 1990s Subaru is at this point it sounds miserable.
travchrav@reddit (OP)
Wanna come help me 🥲
Yeah an eg33 would be awesome but they’ve all vanished. What engine would you put in it?
The_Spectacle@reddit
I briefly toyed with the idea of doing an eg33 swap but yeah everything is unobtainium. you could do an ez30 instead maybe
tk8398@reddit
Taking it apart is all easy, just make sure you get the punch and chisel for removing the cv shafts if you are pulling the transmission, I honestly wouldn't though, just jack it up a bit to make separating the engine easier. If it was mine I would put whatever engine would work with the stock wiring and ECU, at least on the car side. I have really only ever messed with EJ22 and 25 powered Subarus though, none of the more unusual ones.
sleazybeans333@reddit
Is that a JDM GT-B?
travchrav@reddit (OP)
Correct. Twin turbo, believe one went bye bye
The_Spectacle@reddit
oh man I knew a guy who had one locally, I rode in it once, amazing car
last I knew it had been sold to a guy in WA but I could be wrong
sleazybeans333@reddit
Dude awesome ride. Sorry about your troubles with it. I've bid on at least 10 of them on Japanese auctions over the last year trying to import one to the states. They're awesome. Did you bring it in yourself?
travchrav@reddit (OP)
Nope bought it already here, but I got a good deal on it (wonder why haha). This was my attainable dream import and I finally got it! Time to put my favorite Subaru motor in it. Would love to boost the ez once I get everything sorted.
ToxicSeymour@reddit
It's a Subaru, take notes for the next time you have to pull it.
travchrav@reddit (OP)
LOL
ToxicSeymour@reddit
Wish I was kidding. Pulled the motor out of my Loyale once a year for the last three years I've owned it. Put it in last week after a timing job and reseal and it's apart again today because a lash adjuster seized up.
Love. It's irrational. It's also what makes a Subaru a Subaru
Street_Mall9536@reddit
Even seasoned mechanics wouldn't want to swap a Subaru engine in a driveway.
travchrav@reddit (OP)
I’ll be doing it in a garage 👍
ample_mammal@reddit
Nah just put in a built ej20
travchrav@reddit (OP)
same difficulty of swap but more expensive and I’d need to replace the trans with an sti 6 speed to use the extra power
cheeseshcripes@reddit
I've done a ton of work on Subarus, including pulling the engines and all kinds of crap, I will tell you 100% do not attempt to separate the engine and transmission in the vehicle. There are two dowel pins on either side of the transmission and they love to get stuck and it's incredibly difficult if you do not have the clearance and angle and everything perfect. Just pull them out together.
The other two bits of advice, if you have anything to do with a manual transmission, and you cannot get the clutch to bleed and you need it to bleed, I have found with these Subarus that the push rod on the master cylinder is occasionally set too tight, and you have to loosen it off a bit so there's a millimeter or two of play when the pedal is at rest otherwise it won't be able to draw fresh fluid in from the reservoir.
The other is if you have the axles that are installed with a roll pin, if you install that axle onto its stub 180°,, the roll pin will go into one side but it won't be able to come out the other because the hole will be too misaligned. It will seem like it's a little tight but it will not be able to go through. Make sure that the hole is perfectly aligned before you attempt to put the roll pin in it. I also suggest buying a set of roll pin punches, they are incredibly cheap and irreplaceable on this particular job, this is the job that I have a set for. If it's a manual, it also has a roll pin on one of the shift linkages, that linkage also loves to get stuck with rust, it can be a very ugly job taking it out.
travchrav@reddit (OP)
Thank you man I’ll keep all of this in mind. I was worried about having to take both out together, it’s a manual so good to know about the master cylinder.
cheeseshcripes@reddit
It's way easier to take them out together, it is a very smart idea to have an engine leveler though, because it comes up at a very steep angle, it's also useful to bring the body down when you're lifting the engine up if you can't clear the radiator support.
SirMctowelie@reddit
Best of luck, you're diving right into it! Plenty of Subaru guys on youtube you can learn from and though it's going to suck it's better to get it over with now then 20k miles later broken down on the side of the road. It was never an IF it'd blow, they just do.
ZaMelonZonFire@reddit
Ziplocks. Bag and tag all hardware. Tap and define each connector. Good luck!!
rudbri93@reddit
pulling the 4cyls is pretty easy, most stuff is pretty accessible and theyre real short.