Microsoft is promising to make Bluetooth audio much better in Windows 11
Posted by BrightCandle@reddit | hardware | View on Reddit | 237 comments
Posted by BrightCandle@reddit | hardware | View on Reddit | 237 comments
NewSouthWhales-@reddit
Wired
Next problem, please
yflhx@reddit
Stop promising, just deliver.
zacker150@reddit
They already did. Now we're waiting for device makers to update drivers.
yflhx@reddit
The article is quite confusing. Previous two paragraphs state:
zacker150@reddit
Best to go directly to the source.
Strazdas1@reddit
expecting device and software developers to follow windows standards has been a fools errand for three decades and microsoft somehow still expects them to follow the standards despite all the evidence they do everything in their power to make things be different than standards.
chmilz@reddit
They just need to figure out how to add Copilot to Bluetooth and claim they made it better.
Specific_Frame8537@reddit
spicesucker@reddit
Just imagining this happening is making me annoyed
Hot-Software-9396@reddit
I too invent things to get mad at
Top-Tie9959@reddit
How's the promise on the control panel replacement going?
Hamilfton@reddit
What, you don't like the settings menu? It has at least like half a quarter of the functionality of the Control Panel, what more could you possibly want?
Blueberryburntpie@reddit
And so many more clicks to access the same settings that were originally in the control panel.
Senator_Chen@reddit
I don't even mind the settings menu these days (personally I find it easier to find things in it than the old control panel), I just hate that you can only have 1 copy of it open.
arahman81@reddit
Which makes it worse, especially when you want to cross reference settings.
RainStormLou@reddit
Yeah but at least they conveniently placed the links to the control panel files in the settings menu because they still haven't migrated the most important parts.
Seriously though it fucking pisses me off on Windows server. My grandmother isn't managing that shit and doesn't need a "simplified" settings menu to run in parallel without parity for 10 years, but even she said it sucks and to keep that shit in control panel for servers. I'll have to go there anyway.
Actually, the only thing I like about the settings menu is that the text for the computer name is larger than in system information lol.
StoopidRoobutt@reddit
Copilot. It needs copilot. Actually, replace the whole settings menu and control panel with copilot. Coming soon near you. Windows AI 12 Copilot edition.
vmachiel@reddit
First lesson when I got my first IT job: always under promise and over deliver. Never the reverse.
moofunk@reddit
Never show off prototypes to a salesman.
Blueberryburntpie@reddit
"Bruh managlement cancelled that prototype 6 months ago and laid off everyone who was working on it. WTF do you mean we have 6 months to deliver a working product with a new team?"
TheArtBellStalker@reddit
Straight from the school of Montgomery Scott.
https://youtu.be/8xRqXYsksFg?si=IDZ6UdohDlF8s53M
BrakkeBama@reddit
Laawlzzzbaz.... MµmSHòòpht is sho @$$$backwards....
Z3r0sama2017@reddit
Microsoft:"Now announcing AI powered Bluetooth ultraHD reprocessing! Now with 100% more system overhead and telemetry."
Known_Pressure_7112@reddit
How else are the poor board members going to get investors so they can get there 100 million dollar bonuses
Linaori@reddit
I just want a low latency connection to my headset. It's absurd that my wireless Bluetooth headset has a 100ms+ delay.
BrightCandle@reddit (OP)
Bluetooth in Windows with a headset that has a microphone is pretty terrible. If the microphone is enabled you loose substantial quality including stereo and even without the microphone the sound is quite muffled compared to other sources. Turns out that is because Microsoft hasn't been keeping up with bluetooth standards.
ThePresident44@reddit
Nah that’s just what Bluetooth is like. Same behaviour in Linux, Mac, iOS and Android
SirMaster@reddit
I don’t have bad quality audio on my AirPods while using the mic on iOS…
Strazdas1@reddit
Apple uses custom BT standard they developed themselves for their own devices to get around that problem.
SirMaster@reddit
So then it’s not a limitation of BT (physically, bandwidth etc) it’s a problem of software.
Strazdas1@reddit
its a problem with the standard. if you ignore the standard and make your proprietary driver then yes the physical hardware can handle it.
Android has been pushing its custom version as well but the support for hardware is non-universal because google cannot control what you connect to the device.
bolmer@reddit
But not al OSs do shitty job about it. In android you only have bad quality audio if you use the mic, if you don't, you have High quality audio.
In windows? Good luck what the OS choose for you
Strazdas1@reddit
Yes, all OS does a shitty job because its not OS thats failing here, its BT devices.
Arci996@reddit
You can disable the microphone in window's sound settings, that's what I do with laptops usually, disable the headphone mic and use the in-built one.
I know it's not a perfect solution but it's like that also in linux and MacOS.
bolmer@reddit
In some pc that works, in others don't. Windows is so dumb.
northern_lights2@reddit
I had the same experience with Linux and gave up on bluetooth. Is it possible to get good quality audio while mic is in voice chat mode?
NoxiousStimuli@reddit
Quite a lot of comments all with the same issue in this thread not realising this isn't an OS issue, this is a headset issue.
Ran into it myself, my ATH-M50xBT2 would sound perfect if I bluetooth connected it to my PC or my phone, but the moment I needed to use both speakers and microphone, the headset would change to the phone call codec and sound fucking terrible.
The solution is to use separate speakers/headphones and microphones.
Strazdas1@reddit
no. this is a BT standard issue. standards older than the very new 5.3 all have this issue because thats just how BT works.
NoxiousStimuli@reddit
...which is exactly what I said, this is a headset issue, not a Windows issue.
MyDogIsDaBest@reddit
It's also a Mac problem. Bluetooth headphones that also have a mic will switch to the awful headset mode that destroy audio quality. it's insanely frustrating on all OSes
SirMaster@reddit
Doesn’t seem to be a problem on my iPhone with my AirPods.
This is like how I take all my Microsoft teams calls and the audio quality sounds great and is stereo and the mic is working.
Pinksters@reddit
Doesn't apple use a tailored BT standard to achieve this? Much like PS5s and their controllers use a special BT protocol.
Strazdas1@reddit
yeah, they did custom BT standard and now support BT 5.3 which supposedly does the same if supported by all devices in use.
FinBenton@reddit
I know atleast in the past apple used their own implementation to get good quality bt and they on purpose limited the quality on other brand headphones to get people buy apple products, idk if that has changed these days.
Dogeboja@reddit
That's because it's not an OS issue. Bluetooth 5.2 was the first one to kind of support high quality multi directional audio, and Bluetooth 5.3 greatly expands on that. But it's still not guaranteed. There are very few headphones on the market that truly support it. Your computer would have to have a bluetooth chip that also supports it.
Unsupported devices fall back into HSP or HFD mode which has abysmal bitrate of 32 or 64 kbps and frequency range going up to 8 kHz only. It also seems to have awful amount of noise for some reason.
Strazdas1@reddit
when my headphones fall back to HFD mode for some reason they play back microphone audio on the headphones so its actually turning from noise cancellation into noise enhancing. and this is done on headphone level so i cannot change it computer-side. Really freaky when i get a phone call and the headphones just switch to max background noise mode.
Teanut@reddit
Are AirPods running a custom solution? I think they support Spatial Audio while on FaceTime calls.
hibbel@reddit
Both my Airpod Pro 2 and my Macbook with M4pro support Bluetooth 5.3. No wonder I see little sound quality issues with them.
EndlessZone123@reddit
Software aside you simple use two separate mic/audio devices.
Lakku-82@reddit
Or used wired like a real person. And if you’re more serious, a sound card with a breakout box with impedance selection plus xlr or balanced inputs for a mic.
BWCDD4@reddit
“Real people” come on bro stop lying to yourself. The majority of consumers will go with wireless of some sort not wired, usually a usb wireless solution for PC/Console or Bluetooth for phones.
The majority of “real people” aren’t podcasters or recording artists they don’t need or want the ultimate/best quality sound as long as it’s good enough.
Strazdas1@reddit
i use wired and wireless interchangeability. wireless is great for listening to audiobooks when you go for a walk or do the chores around the house. Sitting in front of PC in a voice chat? not really any benefit from it.
Goolsby@reddit
Bluetooth isn't good enough or good at all that's the point.
arahman81@reddit
Just get a headphone with a 2.4GHz receiver, hopefully one that also supports Bluetooth.
Yebi@reddit
Alternatively, maybe don't buy professional studio equipment for yelling at people in CS
Pinksters@reddit
A sound card with XLR inputs? I think ive seen that exactly once in my life.
External DACs with XLR is common though.
Strazdas1@reddit
if you use third party mic yes. if you use built in one no unless you do some fancy tricks in bluetooth drivers.
AuroraFireflash@reddit
Look into things like:
There's only so much bandwidth to go around in the older BT versions. You can either have nice audio, or two-way audio, not both at the same time.
andrewia@reddit
Only with the Bluetooth 5.2 and FastStream (bidirectional audio), which isn't well supported.
buttplugs4life4me@reddit
Use ModMic. Best experience for me so far, even better than using a professional mic (cause it isn't in the way)
Odd_Cauliflower_8004@reddit
On Linux you cna actually select which code you want ot use, if the full stereo music only or the mic+stereo lower quality one.
Phantasmalicious@reddit
Buy a receiver.
pattymcfly@reddit
Jabra and w/e plantronics is called now make usb dongles that present themselves as an audio device to the host and then pair to their headsets using Bluetooth. The audio is excellent even when in calls. However if you have other applications playing audio that will get reduced in quality and the bandwidth but only until you hang up and it auto switches back to high bitrate audio.
xylopyrography@reddit
Nope not yet, I have a BT headset and a gaming headset for voice chat.
lordosthyvel@reddit
That is a Bluetooth bandwidth problem not a windows problem. There isn’t enough bandwidth for the mic and headphone data at the same time. It will be the same on your phone or any other device.
BigIronEnjoyer69@reddit
Yes there is. It's gonna be lower bitrate but if we have 660kbit or 990kbit LDAC, we can have 96kbit upstream and 320kbit downstream. There have been "hacks" like this in the past such as FastStream.
It's a problem of bluetooth not of hardware.
Strazdas1@reddit
when its lower bit rate is when people are complaining about it sounding like garbage.
Hacks like FastStream tend to actually cause more issues than they solve for average person.
zaxanrazor@reddit
Literally no difference between Linux and windows in quality.
I use both daily.
schwimmcoder@reddit
Huge Difference for me. Same Headphones on Ubuntu and Win11 on same hardware. Win11 gave me constant crackling noises and audio disruptions. Ubuntu works flawlessly out of the box.
ray_fucking_purchase@reddit
You wouldn't happen to have an Nvidia card would you?
Pijany_Matematyk767@reddit
...why would their graphics card have anything to do with sound quality?
Strazdas1@reddit
Nvidia uses proprietary audio driver they deploy with video drivers. it sometimes interferes.
marmarama@reddit
Nvidia Windows drivers have had issues with causing substantial system-wide latency issues by interfering with interrupt processing.
This can manifest as drop outs in audio streams. This is a particular issue for pro audio applications running on Windows, but it can also affect Bluetooth audio.
I believe these issues have been fixed in recent versions of the Nvidia drivers, but for several years the received wisdom for anyone dealing with latency-sensitive audio workloads on Windows was to avoid Nvidia cards altogether.
ray_fucking_purchase@reddit
They mentioned the crackling noises. There has been an ongoing issue with Nvidia drivers causing High DPC latency issues resulting in audio behaving in that way. It's a well documented issue that has existed off and on for over a decade now.
"[RTX 50 series] Slightly higher DPC latency may be observed on some system configuration [5168553]"
Bug report from an earlier driver release that still has not been fixed.
That's why I asked if they had an Nvidia card.
schwimmcoder@reddit
Nope, Notebook with Intel graphics only
Pinksters@reddit
I still think they might be onto something. I'd download LatencyMon and run a scan to see what your DPC latency is measuring.
schwimmcoder@reddit
Run LatencyMon and yeah „System seems to be having difficulty handling real time audio..“
Thanks for that, will have a deeper look a it some day. But still sad, that Linux manage to be good out of the box and Windows don‘t.
ThePresident44@reddit
Might be a difference in codecs, since some are proprietary but free to use*, so stuff like Pulseaudio just implements them.
The mega corp Microsoft is probably erring on the side of caution and not touching anything from Sony or Qualcomm that they haven’t explicitly licensed
Alternative A2DP for windows got me LDAC, which is godly for music compared to SBC
trparky@reddit
AAC support on Windows isn't bad either. I have to use AAC as versus LDAP on my Sony headphones because one mode has dual-device support, the other doesn't.
TopCheddar27@reddit
And the opposite is true for me lol
zaxanrazor@reddit
That sounds like latency spikes to me. I don't have those issues on windows.
imKaku@reddit
Same. I use Windows, Linux and OSX. Like people act like Microsoft is the bad guy here but the is is just the Bluetooth protocols that suck.
Strazdas1@reddit
the exact same issue exists on android, so how is that microsofts fault then? the fault is the bluetooth standard is just not a good standard for modern needs.
objectivelywrongbro@reddit
Using AirPods on windows Bluetooth is… an experience
drnick5@reddit
Bluetooth audio has always sucked, it's not only lower in quality than a 2.4 GHz wireless headset, but it also has SIGNIFICANTLY more latency. In that I can't watch anything of value with my headset, since auto doesn't sync up with video. (This is even with the mic tirned off) I'd very much welcome an improvement to BT audio, but I feel like we've heard this too many times before
zoson@reddit
This issue with handsfree mode is an inherent A2DP limitation. A2DP is hard limited to 2 channels of audio. That means if your microphone is enabled, it it using one of those 2 channels, leaving only a single mono channel available for audio playback. There is no fixing this without A2DP itself receiving a protocol update that allows a third(or more) audio channel.
downspire@reddit
I found this out the hard way after buying the new Microsoft Xbox BT headset I found for 50% off at a local Walmart. Audio and latency were terrible until I disabled the microphone but then that sort of defeats the purpose of why I bought the headset in the first place lol
haloimplant@reddit
yup this disaster is why headphones with USB adapters are the only way to go right now. it switches to call mode and screws up everything
ja-ki@reddit
You have to set up your Bluetooth device differently. It's still a Windows issue but it's solvable
BigIronEnjoyer69@reddit
Nah. Bluetooth standards are complete trash. Their standard has been incompetent for more than 30 years now and they're dragging their heels on upgrading it.
LE audio was supposed to deliver this feature, It sort of did, spec wise, but since they made it so arcane, now everyone's dragging their heels on implementing it properly. The WH-1000XM6 was allegedly going to be the first device to be suupposed to be the first but they decided to be garbage by still switching to Mono Audio for no apparent reason at all. Other vendors like sennheiser or bowers and wilkins are promising firmware updates instead.
And that's just clients. BT chipsets are just as spotty on the transmitter side. Intel have claimed LE audio support on the AX200 series but now it turns out it will never be available on those cause the BT-SIG took too long. and they're not spending money on licensing.
Microsoft is a mere blip on the shit fiesta that this standard rollout has been. They hide the LE audio toggle 3 submenus deep but that's like having a barbecue while half the country's forests are on fire.
wankthisway@reddit
I'm so fuckin over Bluetooth. I feel like the standard is just being abused beyond what it was supposed to do way back in the day, and it's just getting worse.
SaltDeception@reddit
I’ve had good experience with my Sony INZONE Buds using LE Audio on Windows, but occasionally the buds get out of sync which is pretty fucking annoying. Admittedly I’m unsure if this is a problem with the buds, the Mediatek adapter, or the Windows BT stack.
Noobasdfjkl@reddit
Lose*
ryncewynd@reddit
Isn't this a Bluetooth bandwidth issue?
4tizzim0s@reddit
This is misinformation, when your output audio loses quality due to the mic enabled that is just a limitation of bluetooth itself not having enough bandwidth for both transmissions. Literally just try it on your phone and it will be the same result.
Kittelsen@reddit
Whenever I googled this I always got the answer that bluetooth didn't support it. You're saying MS is to blame? How do they miss this?
lordosthyvel@reddit
They are not to blame he is just uninformed. It is a Bluetooth problem as you correctly state
Frexxia@reddit
LE audio is very new, so the vast majority does not have the hardware to take advantage of this in the first place.
imKaku@reddit
I used Aptx LE a few years ago. It worked really well. However limited support as both the sender and receiver had to support it.
Frexxia@reddit
You probably mean aptx LL. Aptx is a proprietary Qualcomm technology and entirely unrelated to LE audio.
campeon963@reddit
TLDR: Microsoft is promising to enable Bluetooth LE Audio support on a future Windows Update to support both a microphone and high fidelity audio.
By the way and for those who don't know, both your computer and your wireless headphones / earbuds need to support Bluetooth LE Audio to make use of this feature.
I'm mostly intrigued if Microsoft will finally shipping a Bluetooth LC3 codec (the default codec of Bluetooth LE Audio) with their OS so that you don't have to rely on third party drivers. I'm especially a fan of the far lower latency compared to the rest of the bluetooth codecs available on the market.
NoAirBanding@reddit
Apple can’t even do that though and build every bit of hardware and software in the equation.
campeon963@reddit
Apple is also the only tech manufacturer that doesn't support Bluetooth LE Audio on any of it's devices because Apple wants to force you into using their AAC codec on everything, including their AirPods.
repocin@reddit
Could they just add LDAC support already? Linux has had it for years thanks to the android encoder being open source.
Bluetooth audio on Windows is a downright embarrassment. No wonder companies keep selling their proprietary 2.4GHz radio headsets at insane markups instead.
campeon963@reddit
The LDAC codec doesn't solve the issue because it still uses the A2DP Bluetooth profile which is made for high quality audio at the expense of microhpone support. Bluetooth LE Audio, which despite it's name it's a completely technology to vanilla Bluetooth, can enable simultaneous use of high quality audio and microphone.
Luckily, some companies are already shipping headphones and earbuds with Bluetooth LE Audio support, but then you get stuff like the Audeze Maxwell that can only use Bluetooth LE Audio through it's USB-C dongle lmfao.
Strazdas1@reddit
i find that third party drives for bluetooth is its own form of hell and they never work properly. the best way to make bluetooth behave is to uninstall all bluetooth drivers and let windows handle it natively.
ElephantWithBlueEyes@reddit
Isn't it funny that bluetooth is 30 years old tech and still not reliable? I know there're multiple factors behind that, but still.
Jim_84@reddit
In what way is it not reliable? Feel like I've been using various Bluetooth devices for a long time without any issues.
ja-ki@reddit
Try streaming high quality, low latency audio via Bluetooth and then tell us which codec is being used. Windows fails miserably here. There are many other issues as well.
crimsonvspurple@reddit
I don't like BT but just because one niche usecase has issues, doesn't mean the whole thing is terrible.
ComprehensiveYak4399@reddit
niche????
crimsonvspurple@reddit
Yes. RAudiophile is not the whole world.
ComprehensiveYak4399@reddit
wanting your music to sound good and your game audio to not be late isnt niche at all. i dont think audiophiles are listening to any kind of bluetooth audio anyway their standards would be way higher.
allthebaseareeee@reddit
This is more you using the wrong protocol for what you are trying to do.
ComprehensiveYak4399@reddit
i can use my airpods to listen to nice quality music and play games with non-noticeable latency. airpods (or just heaphones that arent absolute ass in general) are very common products and those are common use cases so i dont understand what yall mean by niche.
allthebaseareeee@reddit
Now go use your airpods on anything other then an apple product?
Airpods dont use normal bluetooth apple to apple.
crimsonvspurple@reddit
ComprehensiveYak4399@reddit
1 im talking by bluetooth standarts 2 im talking by bluetooth standarts
crimsonvspurple@reddit
Good is subjective. It is already good enough for 99% of the populace. It is not good enough for you and me, but we're not majority.
Game audio? Which idiot buys BT stuff for playing games? LOL?
ComprehensiveYak4399@reddit
people that arent into mindless bang bang games?
nick-squared-over4@reddit
latency could be important for watching videos in a convenient manner. depending on the hardware you might encounter some av desync too (though this isn't really that common). on the plus side, bluetooth le (and lc3) are becoming much more popular, and the protocol typically sports sub 100ms latency while retaining solid fidelity : )
ja-ki@reddit
High quality audio and low latency are not niche but standard on all devices these days except for windows. Also it's not the only issue. Like someone else set, noise suppression gets associated wrong and there's more. Just a simple Google search
moofunk@reddit
I had to ditch bluetooth keyboards, because my bluetooth headphones kept interfering with them.
bazooka_penguin@reddit
It's pretty reliable on high-end phones. A large of that reliability, or lack thereof, is on the hardware and software stack that implements it. IIRC the latency on Windows is exceptionally worse than on Android or iOS in general.
Ok-Board4893@reddit
on android when I'm in an active call (e.g. discord) with bluetooth headphones connected everything else audio related becomes basically useless - cant listen to any music, watch videos etc because the audio quality is horrendous. How the fuck is that still a problem in 2025
arahman81@reddit
Blame the low bandwidth for Bluetooth (2Mbit in 5, 3Mbit in 6).
leoklaus@reddit
2Mbit are more than enough for two high quality audio streams. The problem seems to be the lack of a (widely adopted) standard to handle two way audio in a way that doesn’t absolutely suck.
Strazdas1@reddit
its still a problem because you are using bluetooth, a 30 year old standard that was never intended for real time transfer and was never updated to modern requirements.
Universal-Cereal-Bus@reddit
Is that not the exact thing they're talking about fixing?
RBeck@reddit
The built in phone apps can also delay the video a tad to overcome lip desync. Not really practical in Windows since Microsoft only controls the OS and the apps aren't generally aware of what technology the active audio device is using.
Strazdas1@reddit
apps are generally aware of the "audio device" being used for output and bluetoot tends to be clearly labeled in windows when it comes to that. so apps can be aware if they want to be. It gets harder if you are outputting to a third party audio mixer rather than the device directly, but thats mostly an issue for streamers, not regular people.
iBoMbY@reddit
Isn't it funny that Windows is 40 years old tech and still not reliable? I know there're multiple factors behind that, but still.
RamenHooker@reddit
Windows is much more reliable than it used to be.
The only releases that were less reliable were: -Windows ME -Windows XP (which eventually got more reliable than 2000) -Windows Vista (which eventually got more reliable than XP after SP1) -Windows 8 (which eventually got more reliable than 7 after the 8.1 update)
Windows 11 is the most reliable one, by far, especially in large enterprise environments.
masterfultechgeek@reddit
For context... Windows 9X used to crash A LOT.
Even XP had its share of crashes.
And then there's security... 9X was VERY vulnerable and XP was as well.
I haven't really thought about those things very much since Windows 7.
nd4spd1919@reddit
I remember way back when you almost had to reinstall Windows on an annual basis, otherwise it would become unstable and crash often. I have a little home server that's been running the same Windows 10 install now for 8 years; getting 8 years out of one Windows 95 install would be a tall order.
Strazdas1@reddit
trash accumulation gotten a lot better yes. but also computers just got faster so we dont really feel the speed dips that would have caused a reinstall back then. The registry size has doubled? in 1995 thats "oh no better clean it up with reinstall". In 2025 it is "oh no software loads 1ms slower".
Strazdas1@reddit
windows 9X used to accumulate trash so much you wanted a reinstall every 6 months. now we have people running windows 10 for 10 years straight without even crashing once.
Strazdas1@reddit
its not. windows kernel has been reworked completely multiple times since then.
Physmatik@reddit
Gotta set some butts on fire but Windows is one of the most reliable pieces of software ever produced, given the scope of its use.
Necessary_Solid_9462@reddit
The bar for reliability has reached a new low if people are considering Windows to be reliable.
Ok-Board4893@reddit
it absolutely is but redditors will probably get really angry about that comment.
reddit-MT@reddit
Out of all of the versions of UNIX I've used, Linux and OpenVMS, it's easily the least reliable operating system. But it has gotten better over the decades.
BrightCandle@reddit (OP)
Wifi has come such an enormous way in the same time period and Bluetooth just always feels like its not got enough bandwidth nor power to do its job properly and doesn't seem to have improved the situation.
WolfyCat@reddit
I've said this for a while, I feel like we all rely on Bluetooth now because of how ubiquitous it is from being grandfathered in device after device.
If we approached with a new type of wireless standard which was developed using all of the things we've learned along the years and didn't have to worry about 2 decades of backwards compatibility, we could have a much more power efficient, reliable and bandwidth rich standard to communicate for audio and perhaps so much more.
Strazdas1@reddit
there are in fact many such standards. they just tend to be proprietary, so if you dont have devices from same manufacturer you are shit out of luck.
marmarama@reddit
We kinda do, it's called Bluetooth LE. It has almost nothing in common with "classic" Bluetooth except the name and the frequency band it uses. It's essentially a complete redesign.
In theory at least, it does solve most or all of these problems. But, having next to nothing in common with classic Bluetooth, adoption has been really slow, because the whole stack needs redevelopment and testing.
Ayuzawa@reddit
This is actually what Microsoft are doing with this (just a note for the 90% of people who are in here having only read the title)
wrosecrans@reddit
Honestly, it's crazy that they can fit a computer in my ear that is so low power that a 12 hour battery fits in the leftover space in my ear that already has a computer and a radio transmitter in it. It makes sense that there will be limitations on performance/range/bandwidth to make that happen. For the design constraints, the protocol seems to work shockingly well.
Strazdas1@reddit
its crazy that someone would listen to audio for 12 hours on a headphone with drivers so small they fit inside the ear.
Strazdas1@reddit
thats because audio is not actually bluetooths job. bluetooth was just hijacked for this job because of it being available in many devices. it was never intended for this.
GongTzu@reddit
Try read the manual for Bluetooth, you will be astonished by how many companies and organizations are involved and yet it’s quite terrible compared to the needs of today.
tux-lpi@reddit
All the organizations involved is a big part of the reason for the mess.
The Bluetooth Core specification is approaching 4000 pages, and that's just to lay out the basic foundation of bluetooth. If you count all the actual meat of the thing, there's an order of magnitude more.
It's endless design by committee. The Bluetooth people could manage to turn a pancake recipe into a 200 page complicated ordeal that no one can do successfully.
Strazdas1@reddit
thats what happens when you have a 30 year old standard that was never intended to do any of those things and never updated, but somehow still popular.
elephantnut@reddit
it has a very low floor, unfortunately. you can get a good setup with premium/flagship consumer devices. the apple ecosystem is pretty solid, surface devices are great, samsung’s flagships + galaxy buds are reliable.
Relaxybara@reddit
It's reliable on everything but windows.
Ezmiller_2@reddit
It's reliable on phones.
Jozex21@reddit
Microsoft so behind all mobile shit
Nuck_Chorris_Stache@reddit
I remember when Creative used to have a monopoly on sound cards used in games because of EAX, and even made their own hardware accelerated cards which they called X-Fi (which also included a bunch of other bullshit claims in their marketing)
And then when Microsoft released Vista, they removed the ability to do hardware accelerated audio, and wrecked Creative's monopoly in the process.
RBeck@reddit
You just unlocked a really old memory for me. In the Windows XP days I bought a sound card from a company that was taking Creative head on with their higher quality hardware and drivers. It was a Auzen X-Fi Prelude 7.1, which at $199 was a lot for 2007.
Certain games has noticable lag with multiple audio clips playing, like many guns going off at the same time as explosions, people probably wrote it off as CPU or even video lag. With the Auzen there was no latency at all, to the point it created a huge advantage
DGRWPF@reddit
Holy shit! A blast from the past! If i remember, Auzentech cards were based on Creative X-FI chipsets, but with better analog outputs: dacs, filtering, swappable opamps.
MdxBhmt@reddit
You just did the same with me by naming the card. Damn totally forgot I had this.
Z3r0sama2017@reddit
And set game audio back years. Honestly I don't know what was worse a monopoly that was pushing audio forwards or the absolute lackluster state of certain parts of the windows audio stack.
Blueberryburntpie@reddit
I read about someone claiming that when they were playing Counter Strike (not exactly sure which one of the old versions), their GPU crashed but they still finished the round because the directional sound was accurate enough for them to guess which direction their enemy was approaching from.
MumrikDK@reddit
This was somewhat of a hobby for Creative themselves to begin with. Look at what they did to Aureal.
6950@reddit
Stop promising stuff just fix windows update and 99.99% of people will be happy also make native apps for windows so they don't feel clunky
-113points@reddit
btw, what the f is happening to windows update?
I'm stuck on 21h2 for two years and microsoft doesn't have a path to update it without a clean installation
are we back to the old Vista days?
Greenleaf208@reddit
Run windows health app and I think it'll check if there's a reason you can't update.
-113points@reddit
Believe me, I've tried everything. From cleaning profiles, to update the BIOS, clean boot, unplug every usb, remove antivirus, updated all drivers, update to version 22h2, to 23h2, using ISO installation, Installation Assistant
I just gave up.
Strazdas1@reddit
so if you use iso installation with newer version it reverts to older one for you? sounds like incompatible hardware.
-113points@reddit
12700k, MSI Z690A, 4090
it is a classic setup
Greenleaf208@reddit
I had a similar issue back in that time period but I can't remember how I fixed it. I might have done a new install over the existing one and it fixed it.
AboveAverage1988@reddit
It's weird, running the same build on my work laptop and my gaming desktop. It works perfectly on the work laptop but doesn't work at all on the desktop, you get 1-2 seconds of audio every 10 seconds or so..
nona01@reddit
Wonder if it's worth getting a BT 5.2 adapter if i use a secondary mic.
Zeromorph@reddit
Yes! I use a Creative BT-W dongle for Bluetooth audio. It is so much better, I can never go back to Windows bluetooth.
ToTTen_Tranz@reddit
You won't really need an expensive Creative BT-W audio adapter if Microsoft goes forward with properly supporting Bluetooth LE Audio.
nona01@reddit
My motherboard only supports Bluetooth 5.0 so from what I know, I think I should need a 5.2+ adapter.
ToTTen_Tranz@reddit
You can get a BT5.3 adapter for $6 on Amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/UGREEN-Bluetooth-Receiver-Transmitter-Headphone/dp/B0CZD94YFR
And it's half of that if you order from AliExpress.
The Creative BT-W6 costs almost 10x more than a regular BT5.3 dongle because it's not just a wireless radio. It's a USB sound IC connected to a bluetooth radio IC.
https://www.amazon.com/Creative-Wireless-Bluetooth-Transmitter-Snapdragon/dp/B0DG34HRNC
The BT-W series shouldn't need to exist if PCs and consoles supported Bluetooth LE + GMAP solutions in their software. I get that they want to avoid people pairing it with older bluetooth audio with 400ms latencies, but BT5.2+ radios are dirt cheap already and there's plenty of audio head/earsets supporting it.
Strazdas1@reddit
thats the power output of that amazon adapter? i found its a complete lottery for those bluetooth dongles whether the singnal reaches next room or not for me. I have thick structural walls. For comparison wifi does not penetrate them. so it took a while to find bluetooth one that does.
ToTTen_Tranz@reddit
Not sure why you're talking about thick walls when bluetooth isn't meant to go through walls at all.
Strazdas1@reddit
well, i need one powerful enough to penetrate the walls or its not usable case for me.
nona01@reddit
I have a headset that supports it. Will windows be compatible with these cheap adapters then? I don't fully understand this software support mess.
ToTTen_Tranz@reddit
That's what Microsoft is saying, that they'll support the higher bandwidth mode and LC3 for low latency audio plus a simultaneous return audio channel (using the headset's microphone).
Zeromorph@reddit
You could be right. But also, it's not expensive
additional_trouble@reddit
Incessant updates that don't even respect the "pause" updates options.
super aggressive anti-virus (which is worse than other AV vendors which I already shunned) that dramatically affects file io operations as well as compile times and is one of thw absolute worst offenders of battery life and performance in my laptop.
Taskbar with ugly unequal sized window-tabs that keep changing their sizes based in the content of the browser tabs (or apps). Did these guys ever learn about design?
4. Inability to pin multiple windows/locations of apps on the Taskbar (like RDP connections)
5. No local accounts even on PCs that are meant to be offline. No MS I don't have an account. I ended up installing Ubuntu on some such computers.
A start menu that keep getting worse (why break the wonderful win 10 start menu?) why can't I group my apps? How do I get rid of the "recommended" section?
A search that has never worked but somehow still keeps getting worse (like it's actually worse when instead if my apps, I end up with web results in my search - that's what finally got me to stop search on windows entirely and switch to Voidtools Everything)
I have been a windows user all my life. Nothing has tempted me to switch to Ubuntu/Mac as much as MS own idiotic OS choices - which seems to be accelerating recently. At this rate my current laptop + PC would probably my last windows PCs.
If steamOS does gaming well enough, I'm gone.
StickStroker@reddit
Microsoft makes me want to kms
Strazdas1@reddit
kms stands for keep me safe for legal reasons.
Pimpmuckl@reddit
Impressive, you wrote a whole dissertation without mentioning Bluetooth, the topic of this thread, even once.
additional_trouble@reddit
That was my point - that there are so many issues I face with win 11 that these Bluetooth promises sound like a joke to me personally.
Maybe if you actually take the time to read a comment to engage in discussion as opposed to delivering one liner comic rebuttals we'd have a slightly better world. Or maybe don't - you do you.
Thanks for nothing.
StickStroker@reddit
I'll add to it. Xbox (Microsoft owned) controller doesn't connect to Windows PC through Bluetooth 😐. Microsoft dial (connected through Bluetooth) freezes whole computer mid gaming if you lightly touch it.
reaper527@reddit
updates are once a month (specifically, the second tuesday of every month) outside of emergency "out of band" updates.
either way, while you're right and this shouldn't be necessary, "windows update blocker" will stop the os from installing updates/rebooting on its own. (of course, you still want to install those so disabling them and never turning it back on so updates can happen is an awful idea)
they're hidden, not non-existent. when you setup your pc tell it you're going to join a domain. it will let you create a local account. (and if you've already set up an online account you should be able to go to computer management's "local users and groups" section and create one there)
TipIcy4319@reddit
Finally. Can they make it so it stops losing the connection because of a device connected to my wifi? This problem is nonexistent on my phone - the connection is always flawless. But on Windows 11, it's terrible. If a phone can do it, why can't Windows?
Ratiofarming@reddit
Windows can do it, I've never had this issue across dozens of devices over the past few years. Something is broken with your setup. Wi-Fi and Bluetooth have very little to do with each other than sharing the antenna. The radio modules and the frequencies are different.
TipIcy4319@reddit
Unfortunately they kind of share the same 2.4 Ghz band. I'm considering buying a new module for my motherboard to see if it fixes the problem. As it is, I can't connect my headphone and controller at the same time. Either one or both will lose connection eventually.
Ratiofarming@reddit
What century are you from that your Wi-Fi is still 2.4 GHz?
Strazdas1@reddit
the vast majority of devices still only support 2.4 ghz on recieving end.
hollow_bridge@reddit
most iot devices and security cameras use 2.4, and then there's the range benefit, so it's not really suitable to disable it for many people.
99-Potions@reddit
Are you using the antenna that came with your motherboard?
Berengal@reddit
There's way more to that question that just the software in use. You're using different radios with different antennas in different positions in different cases...
Ratiofarming@reddit
The antenna is shared in most devices. But the radio module and frequency is different.
Berengal@reddit
Pretty sure their PC and phone don't share an antenna.
animeman59@reddit
I've eliminated this problem by using wireless earbuds that come with their own wireless adapter, and a separate USB microphone.
Fuck bluetooth.
PossibleMechanic89@reddit
Fix the fucking taskbar
jedrider@reddit
I discovered that my Denon bluetooth headphones also do USB audio. I've been rescued from poor Bluetooth audio quality.
trailhopperbc@reddit
Its pretty lame i have to have a dedicated dongle headset to game and have decent audio when i have a great set of BT headphones that work perfectly with my iphone for the exact same purpose.
Apple’s implementation (although proprietary) of ipods between iphone and my macbook is fucking SLICK.
Jaz1140@reddit
Microsoft couldn't even deliver HDR properly, as if we trust anything they say.
They recently broke HDR in windows 11 if you have a Dolby vision capable display.
Mattius14@reddit
It can ONLY get better.
bogglingsnog@reddit
Sounds like what we really need (and have always needed) is a wireless communications protocol with more total bandwidth.
AFAIK under most circumstances you can only squeeze about 1Mbit of bandwidth out of BLE with a rather underwhelming 32Khz sampling rate. To get CD-quality audio (48khz) you need ~1.5Mbit. But what I really want is to hit at least 24/96 quality (24-bit, 96-khz) which takes about five times that (~5mbit). That would really open up possibilities for hi-fi bluetooth audio.
For good-sounding mic input you'd probably be wanting to configure a codec such as Opus in the 64-128 Kbit range. Supposing you had a 5Mbit protocol, that'd only be around 2-3% of the total bandwidth which is a lot more manageable than it is currently.
In other words, I don't think this will really be all that much better until Bluetooth evolves to have a high-bandwidth option.
Dark_ShadowMD@reddit
Don't touch the Bluetooth driver... you have broken this OS enough! Stop touching things this year, you monkeys, things are working now, DON'T BREAK ANOTHER THING!
Pedro_32@reddit
If there is anything they should touch is the Bluetooth stack, it has been absolutely horrendous since ever.
XFX1270@reddit
Windows audio needs an overhaul in general. Why can I not have more than one active input and output at the same time?
surf_greatriver_v4@reddit
hardly windows' fault bluetooth was a dogshit standard for 90% of its lifespan
flyingghost@reddit
I'll be happy if windows updates don't break my Bluetooth drivers.
TheConnectionist@reddit
They could revert whatever changes they made with windows 11 and I would be happy.
Connecting my headphones to a brand new PC can take upwards of 30 seconds on windows 11 while on my 8 y/o windows 10 PC it's still nearly instant.
windozeFanboi@reddit
Anyone else bothered to not find any sources on the article and the one hyperlink touting their own horn over an outdated article since February?
meh...
windozeFanboi@reddit
I'm not sure i trust anything about this...
Bluetooth LE Audio adoption has been a mess. I got hyped like 3 years ago and i'm still waiting, with it being "right around the corner" but still not quite here...
Mobile/PC/OS/Device compatibility all needs to be addressed...
Insert >> "I'm Tired, boss" << here.
I'll jump onto LE Audio in 2026 it seems like... ^(probably)
obamasfursona@reddit
"Microsoft is promising to make windows 11 stop kicking you in the balls"
Spyzilla@reddit
I remember when I was playing Fallen Order connecting a controller via Bluetooth would instantly drop my frames to like 20
Scrimps@reddit
I have no hope for HDR if Bluetooth is still a disaster on Windows.
reaper527@reddit
it mentions driver updates being needed, but would this require firmware updates as well for the devices so that the device is aware of the new protocols?
EasyGameplayGG@reddit
Kinda crazy how on Android you can assume LDAC works while on windows you need a 3rd party program ( Alternative A2DP from Bluetoothgoodies ) and at the same time is the only way to do LDAC on windows.
And the app starts for free and then will require you to buy a license, it's cheap true, still odd how you once can assume it works and on the other you need payment to a 3rd party.
NightFuryToni@reddit
I swear I've heard that headline with 11 replaced with 7 and 10...
They seem to promise that every version.
DiggingNoMore@reddit
And by "better", do they mean "works"? Because I have an extremely hard time getting my bluetooth headset to work at all. I have to turn off my speakers, then plug in my headsets dongle, then turn on the headset, then open Discord. If I do any of it out of order, I won't be able to hear and/or speak.
DannyzPlay@reddit
As one of the rare gamers who uses a 5.1.2 home theatre system with my gaming PC, audio in general is a mess with windows.
Pixelgordo@reddit
It is not difficult. No one of my Bluetooth devices works near an acceptable level at my corporate laptop. While they achive excellent performance with android, iOS, Linux and MacOS.
Silly_Painter_2555@reddit
I never knew there was a problem in the first place....
Beefmytaco@reddit
Bluetooth as a tech just needs to go away honestly. It's outdated and the bandwidth limitations have long been a headache for so many to try and work around and make functional.
Android auto wireless using 5ghz wifi instead is how 'bluetooth' should be today. Just use a whole new system with way higher bandwidth and the problem is solved.
marmarama@reddit
There's a reason that hasn't happened, and that's battery life. WiFi uses about an order of magnitude more power than Bluetooth.
If you're happy with your headphones only having an hour or two runtime, or needing an external battery pack, then sure, it's a solution.
IAteMyYeezys@reddit
I could not for the life of me connect my Sony WF-C500s my thinkpad with "stock" drivers aka whatever windows update installs(some intel stuff). They would connect for a second and then the right earbud would disconnect , play some warning sound and then the left bud would attempt the same and get disconnected as well and also play the warning sound, handling the connection back to the right bud and that cycle would continue on forever. Had to get a tplink bluetooth adapter and disable the internal bluetooth driver just to get the earbuds to finally fucking connect properly although i still had to disable their mic to get the proper audio quality. Whats worse is that even a bluetooth mouse would have issues with connection. Had to run the thing in pairing mode every time i wanted to connect to the thinkpad but with the tplink adapter i just have to turn the mouse on and within 5 seconds both it and the earbuds are connected and work flawlessly.
To say that i had a bad experience with microsoft bluetooth would be an understatement.
rico_hd22@reddit
Just need to get rid of that Hands-free headset option that makes sound quality drop so low.
Delta_Version@reddit
nah, microsoft needs to stop shoving unnecessary and useless features up its OS
fixminer@reddit
How is good Bluetooth audio "unnecessary and useless"?
Dreamerlax@reddit
I half expected a scribe about "use wired headphones" to be honest.
Correct-Explorer-692@reddit
It’s one is a must
AldermanAl@reddit
I've been hearing about Microsoft improving Bluetooth for what seems like a decade or more. So, call me when it actually happens.
Malygos_Spellweaver@reddit
Good... BT is always a gamble. Random disconnects, slow, sometimes need to unpair and pair again.
But sometimes is also the hardware. I got an Audio Technica headset and whatever Bluetooth magic they did there, the range is great, the quality is great. Never had anything like that, it doesn't feel like BT.
Hairy_Doughnut5582@reddit
Ah yes windows audio What a cluster fuck that is!
Brorim@reddit
MS cant do much to clean the shit they are in