TheaterFire

It may be the 24th century, but there's no way I'm convinced holosuite addiction isn't a BIG problem in this utopic future, Barclays was just part of a greater societal symptom imo, like why would you go outside when you can bring outside inside?

Posted by expudiate@reddit | TNG | View on Reddit | 269 comments

It may be the 24th century, but there's no way I'm convinced holosuite addiction isn't a BIG problem in this utopic future, Barclays was just part of a greater societal symptom imo, like why would you go outside when you can bring outside inside?

Reply to Post

269 Comments

Putrid-Catch-3755@reddit

Even with filters the unholy things people would do in there.
View on Reddit #65110553

Tang_the_Undrinkable@reddit

![gif](giphy|R0TrhAtNeUC0E) Remember boys, always wipe your filter clean.
View on Reddit #65112792

Fluffy_History@reddit

Those poor ensigns whp have to clean the holosuites
View on Reddit #65121958

WolverineComplex@reddit

Couldn’t they beam all the grool directly into space? Or have those little sentient robots that Data saves do it
View on Reddit #65132011

welsh_dragon_roar@reddit

I think it goes into the food replicator raw material bank 👍
View on Reddit #65151995

fantasmachine@reddit

Absolutely. It's a fantastic source of protein.
View on Reddit #65153486

ArcherNX1701@reddit

Obviously!
View on Reddit #66038641

myaltduh@reddit

Honestly on a deep space mission just shedding matter is probably a very bad idea when recycling exists.
View on Reddit #65432224

hear_the_thunder@reddit

Also, participants aren’t just human either. Yikes…
View on Reddit #65262833

GreenTunicKirk@reddit

Lower Decks answers thus :-)
View on Reddit #65158806

Ok-Cow2018@reddit

Afaik the holodeck cleans itself and converts all organic matter into energy
View on Reddit #65969872

overworkedpnw@reddit

https://preview.redd.it/ologk06cthlf1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c474e12557732415c296eeb7edb709249103553f
View on Reddit #65127970

RegionRatHoosier@reddit

https://preview.redd.it/64ychm8r8plf1.jpeg?width=526&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=091fab024cf2eae1f67e1027ddfa71b8f3226c53
View on Reddit #65211929

reibagatsu@reddit

For sure the only reason Leah Brahms didn't find a naked holo Leah Brahms in Geordi's program was because they wouldn't have been able to show it on network tv.
View on Reddit #65117821

Putrid-Catch-3755@reddit

Network TV is the only reason it didn't look like the orgy scene from eyes wide shut..dozens of oiled up Leah Brahms writhing with pleasure in main engineering. Not like geordis getting laid anywhere else.
View on Reddit #65139885

michael0n@reddit

They didn't allow him much character development. All the other characters are allowed to find someone. Even Odo was getting it and he wasn't even like all the others.
View on Reddit #65149907

Mahhrat@reddit

Kira was a smart one. Odo is intelligent, serious, loving and loyal - and he can be ANY SHAPE HE WANTS.
View on Reddit #65228864

Ragman676@reddit

The Orville has a whole episode about this.
View on Reddit #65131098

AppropriateStudio153@reddit

Addictions is always Bortus. He is just an addict.
View on Reddit #65137918

chronofluxtoaster@reddit

Growing up in a culture like that I’d be more concerned if he DIDN’T have addiction problems.
View on Reddit #65171412

kingpin000@reddit

What about holo Seven? She got a back shot which implied that she was naked.
View on Reddit #65130821

AppropriateStudio153@reddit

Trust me, I am the Doctor.
View on Reddit #65137937

Puzzled-Tradition362@reddit

They could have pixelated her boobies and muff.
View on Reddit #65129730

GeniusLike4207@reddit

Look at the Orivilke and their "Holodeck" Of course people are gonna use it for orgies
View on Reddit #65227505

TheJohnnyFlash@reddit

![gif](giphy|V9o7jZWjSRqGk)
View on Reddit #65206603

hyst0rica1_29@reddit

Thinking of when Tuvok on Voyager was helped with his Pon Farr -ish situation by having a holographic version of his wife created on the holodeck.
View on Reddit #65184243

Stuman93@reddit

I've had the same thoughts about Harry Potter and poly juice potion, obliviate, etc. No way there wasn't a crazy underground sex ring.
View on Reddit #65159993

rabidninjawombat@reddit

I just wouldn't wanna be the ensign who's job is was to clean the holodecks 🤢
View on Reddit #65116315

Adventurous-Line1014@reddit

Is there a single scene in any episode that actually shows someone cleaning? If the show had been made in the last 15 years or so there'd be roombas all over the place
View on Reddit #65145921

BoukenGreen@reddit

Nah if Beckett was involuted they turned it into a game.
View on Reddit #65150102

and1984@reddit

Wasn't that part of a Lower Decks episode?
View on Reddit #65116620

rabidninjawombat@reddit

I haven't seen all of it. But I wouldnt be surprised
View on Reddit #65119092

xXNightDriverXx@reddit

Ransom: "I HAVE HER CLEANING ****** OUT OF THE HOLO DECKS ****** FILTER!!!" Capt. Freeman: "Urgh they really use it for that??" Ransom: "It's, ehm, mostly that, yeah."
View on Reddit #65138695

ChuckRingslinger@reddit

It was the episode Moist Vessel.
View on Reddit #65126940

Klutzy-Bag7486@reddit

I remember when they found out what Barclay was up to in the holodecks. 😬
View on Reddit #65136940

tedxy108@reddit

The Orville had a nice episode addressing this where a bridge officer had a porn addiction then ended up downloading a massive virus that messes up the whole ship.
View on Reddit #65456653

Regular_Promise426@reddit

The bigger problem is that there's basically no reason to not live in a holodec. It's an infinitely configurable ephemeral-if-you-want-it-to-be environment.
View on Reddit #65414936

Paraparo@reddit

I wouldn't be surprised, but the kind of personality that would strap into a holo 24/7 is also not the kind of person who joins Starfleet or goes to brave new frontiers so that is usually selected out of what we see. And I'd not be surprised when the tech came out, people did, or plugged into pods and lived in simulation. But then consider, these people are voluntarily cutting themselves out of society writ large. They don't lead organizations, they don't have families, they don't pass on a way of life. Which means you can't understate the social stigma that can arise. Society has been led, run, and operated by people who'd consider this sort of antisocial behavior terrible for centuries at that point, and try to stop the addiction in the first place. Between social stigma and decent widespread mental health rehab, probably does a lot to help curb escapism taken to dangerous extremes.
View on Reddit #65394252

theimmortalgoon@reddit

TNG still had the Roddenberry assumption that humanity had evolved by this time. DS9 rolls this back and at several points underlines that humans have not evolved and were the same creatures we are now with better tech. But when the holodeck was designed, there was an Arthur C. Clarkian presumption that leaving the planet would be as big of an evolutionary leap as leaving the oceans.
View on Reddit #65110856

YT-Deliveries@reddit

I think if we extend the thought process a little more, by the 24th century it seems like holographic with tactile feedback technology is basically everywhere. So it's plausible to say that there isn't much novelty to it and people would be more likely to seek real-life connections and fulfillment more than holographically generated ones.
View on Reddit #65111387

expudiate@reddit (OP)

i really wanna believe you
View on Reddit #65112682

Valirys-Reinhald@reddit

The things that drive us to seek online connections today are circumstantial pressures. No one who has had access to genuine connection all their lives chooses to shut it out consistently. A holodeck would be a genuine danger for us today, but in Star Trek, in a post-scarcity society, all the material barriers to genuine connection are erased from birth.
View on Reddit #65372010

jimmyharbrah@reddit

We have VR now and it’s not like people are just doing VR all day. They’re choosing other things—often the healthy well-adjusted things Roddenberry imagined humans would be doing
View on Reddit #65118680

tunanoa@reddit

My two cents, but VR doesn't compare. If you suggested me to spend my whole weekend in my old sofa, with Skyrim playing in a helmet (just for the vibes), reading an ebook scrolling the screen half an inch from my eyes... And "exercising" going to the kitchen to make a coffee (or using the VR set inside the building gym like a crazy person). I would rather not. But if you gave me an option to be "magically" transported to the Alps, reading a paper book in beach chair alone in the top of the mountain, having the power to control climate and wind... And if I got sleepy I could have a bottle of coffee be delivered by a pterodactyl and then exercise summoning a whole gym and having a virtual Saavik (v.STIII) as a personal trainer.... Well... Yeah, I would probably be bored of all that "god power", but I could spend many weekends inside a holodeck before that, even if just for resting in random places reading books. :)
View on Reddit #65337362

jimmyharbrah@reddit

Oh I don’t disagree. It’s a difficult thing to imagine. Our closest corollary is VR but it isn’t enough to compare. I think the holedeck could be an addiction like cyberpunk 2077’s vids or it could be you’re so aware it isn’t real it just doesn’t click. It’s an interesting thought experiment to be sure
View on Reddit #65353060

starkiller6977@reddit

VR would give me a headache. But what Star Trek depicts is obviously so unbelievably real that they very often had to find out if they are still on the holodeck or not.
View on Reddit #65218749

FullMetal_55@reddit

well, there is MMO addiction which is still a thing, this would bring that one level higher... while not everyone is affected, there will always be the social misfits who get sucked in, and have a pre-disposition to addiction... we have drugs everywhere now not everyone is a junkie either... heck pot is legal here in Canada, and not everyone is a pothead... are there pot heads? absolutely. are there junkies? of course. in shadowrun there are BTL addicts, I don't see holoaddiction not existing as a concern.
View on Reddit #65159601

YT-Deliveries@reddit

True that. I’ve got two different VR setups and while they’re super cool, they’re not a replacement for real life. In fact we could go further into canon with this. In the episode with the Binars, Minuet is considered by Riker to be an exceptional bit of programming because of how “real” she seems in comparison to most of the characters he’s experienced in the past. Once the Binars’ exceptional skill and data was removed from the Enterpise’s systems, Minuet was no longer as “real” as she was.
View on Reddit #65120286

Shamanjoe@reddit

Even in that episode though, I get the distinct impression that Will had a good time, but was never in danger of losing perspective.
View on Reddit #65129343

FullMetal_55@reddit

I like to think a lot of people would be more apt for real life stuff. the social misfits, (Barclay) would always seek to do things like that with zero consequences. just like people who play games on god mode. to do things they can't in real life.
View on Reddit #65159372

YT-Deliveries@reddit

You can if you want! The thought is royalty free!
View on Reddit #65112807

multiplemiggs1@reddit

I'm not so sure it's as common as you think. There are more than a few episodes of TNG where someone in the 24th century is inexplicably amazed by the holodeck. Admiral Jarok in the Defector is an example. Can anyone think of any others?
View on Reddit #65126866

TheKeyboardian@reddit

I think the Enterprise D's holodeck was a step above most holodecks at the time in fidelity (like a shiny new 8k oled tv), but by DS9 ~10 years later that level of fidelity had become standard.
View on Reddit #65128080

Viggos_Broken_Toe@reddit

Yet it seems like they were still somewhat scarce in DS9. Were the ones at Quark's the only holosuites? I guess there could have been others on the station.
View on Reddit #65234596

TheKeyboardian@reddit

Yeah, the analogy with a tv may be somewhat loose; I don't think every household had one as of TNG/DS9 since it occupies considerable space and would require some modification to a house to install. It's almost like a modern game room in that regard, where some sufficiently dedicated people may renovate their house to have one, but most people don't as there are some available for communal use in most communities.
View on Reddit #65237172

Shamanjoe@reddit

They were all amazed by the holodeck, yes. But none of them went overboard for it. Jarok even flatly refused to stay after less than 10mins..
View on Reddit #65129404

TheBookofBobaFett3@reddit

Would you spend more than 10 minutes in an adult website where everyone keeps their clothes in? 🤣
View on Reddit #65135467

Zorolord@reddit

That's what particle scrubbers are for 😂
View on Reddit #65142810

YT-Deliveries@reddit

Perhaps, but even DS9 had one.
View on Reddit #65127259

Icy_Sector3183@reddit

Imagine a post-scarcity culture where you don't treat every stranger as a rival but a potential partner. I imagine people would in general find it easier to connect. Also, mental health is taken seriously in the 24th century. People who need help get help.
View on Reddit #65131004

Zorolord@reddit

What if you don't want it?
View on Reddit #65142733

Icy_Sector3183@reddit

A legitimate question. In the insidiously well-meaning Federation, anti-social behaviour is sure to be scrutinised to determine if you have real mental issues, but ultimately, it seems you are free to do what you want.
View on Reddit #65152039

Perpetual_Decline@reddit

Your crewmates will force it on you, if Voyager is representative of Federation values. What happens with those who lack friends or colleagues is probably quite different, mind
View on Reddit #65149825

RobertWF_47@reddit

Agreed. In Star Trek humanity has grown up. We've figured it all out, what it takes to lead happy, fulfilling lives. There are still outliers like Barclay or Tom Paris who aren't as well-adjusted. But those characters ended up addressing their issues.
View on Reddit #65118757

Zorolord@reddit

I would be like Tom Paris, but look like ̶B̶r̶o̶c̶c̶o̶l̶i̶ Barclay. So I definitely be staying in the holodeck.
View on Reddit #65142696

OriginalOpposite8995@reddit

I don't think DS9 rolled it back so much as depicted life on the federation frontier, with societies that haven't gotten to the federation's level of development. So we see that behavior amongst other ( fernengi bajirans cardassians killings etc). Barclay had other issues that manifested itself in the holders addiction. If the holodeck wasn't available it these problems would have manifested in other ways.
View on Reddit #65114958

theimmortalgoon@reddit

The mission statement was to [rewrite the Utopianism](https://gizmodo.com/to-boldly-stay-how-deep-space-nine-upended-star-trek-b-1823186821): >That’s why I wanted to critique the Federation. Because to me, it all sounded like gobble-de-gook, this perfect 24th century… I just didn’t understand how we reached that place where life was so damn good. Everything was a song, a beautiful song among the stars, but that’s not how I saw it…I wanted Section 31, the Federation itself, to be the villain. It was this idea that paradise is just a small piece of the puzzle. And there are several great speeches, the “saints in paradise” and the “creature comfort” speech. I want to be clear. This isn’t a bad thing, necessarily. Before this there was a kind of infamous “Roddenberry box” writers would complain about when trying to write something interesting about highly evolved people in utopia. But let’s decide we can believe the show runner in laying out what he was trying to do.
View on Reddit #65116239

ErandurVane@reddit

The desire to "rewrite utopianism" is how we ended up with crap like the first two seasons of Picard, Discovery, and the Section 31 movie.
View on Reddit #65149709

Fit-Force-7975@reddit

Yes. I'm tired of deconstructing heroes. It's depressing. Humans will be humans, but I want a hopeful future where we have solved most of the societal rot we face today and are better overall. Not perfect, but definitely better.
View on Reddit #65237153

AlteranNox@reddit

Yeah, it's a shame. Although it's quite fitting that humanity's cynicism is so potent that it even destroyed a make believe utopia lol.
View on Reddit #65211155

theimmortalgoon@reddit

Not at all disagreeing with you. All of these shows took DS9 as canon (as they should have) which went out of its way, and again, the showrunner and writers are very clear about their intentions here; they all went out of their way to show that the Federation was not a utopia and that people haven't evolved. Discovery season 1 was a rehash of DS9. A war with an implacable enemy made up of zealots; a super weapon is developed to fight them from a morally dubious part of the Federation, but then one of the enemy's own, who was embedded with the Federation, goes back home and teaches the enemy that the Federation can be trusted, rendering the super weapon unnecessary. Throw in some mirror episodes and Bob's your uncle. It didn't have the multiple-season and 20-episode season breathing room that DS9 did, but it's essentially the same thing. Once you write that, basically, Kirk and Picard were dupes for believing the Federation lies about utopianism, you're going down this path. It starts with DS9, for better or for worse.
View on Reddit #65150714

DramaticCoat7731@reddit

I don't think they were dupes. If anything DS9 challenged the idea of seamless utopia without actually destroying it. In the end, the ideals of the Federation won after their challenges. The writers were intelligently deconstructing the idea of literal perfection without reducing us to 20th/21st century racist assholes. Picard S1 dispensed with it all in one episode, almost creating an inverse Roddenberry box where the Federation has to be run by angry xenophobes. Picard was turned into a literal dupe after he was refused the chance to save millions of lies because racism.
View on Reddit #65159872

theimmortalgoon@reddit

It's possible that the showrunners and writers of DS9 failed in their explicit mission statement to show that Roddenberry's utopia was "gobble-de-gook." But I don't think so. You mention that the *ideals* of the Federation won after their challenges. In TOS and TNG, like every Trek, there were badmirals. But in those shows, the badmiral was wrong and the system itself was correct. The utopian system would forgive the errant ways of its staff, but the system was correct. DS9 flipped that on its head. The Federation was harboring and spreading fascism. Starfleet was hungry for a coup. Sure, there were people who had the ideals of the Federation at heart to stop it, they were idealistic. This is no different than a show where the ideals of the United States, United Kingdom, or France win despite all the awful things they may be doing. It is different from the material argument Roddenberry wanted, where the utopia was set. It would be almost unthinkable to oppose it, and those few who did, saw the errors of their ways. To be clear, again, this isn't really friendly to writers. And Roddenberry didn't like Wrath of Khan, which objectively rules. But I think we can believe the DS9 showrunners and writers when they say what they did.
View on Reddit #65166896

DramaticCoat7731@reddit

I don't necessarily disbelieve the writers, but they still showed that the coup and S31 were operating in the shadows precisely because the public at large wouldn't accept it. The writers succeeded in poking holes in utopia, not turning it inside out into a nightmare like later Trek has tried to do.
View on Reddit #65171954

theimmortalgoon@reddit

I don't know that I buy, "Starfleet is a powerhungry organization bent on overthrowing democracy, but they tried to do it without the public knowing, so it's okay" is really anything but turning the utopia into a nightmare.
View on Reddit #65176929

DramaticCoat7731@reddit

I don't think it was Starfleet though, it was a badmiral secretly co-opting naive youths and a handful of officers. Starfleet Command to my knowledge had nothing to do with it. Certainly an escalation over TNG era petty badmirals though. And this is why I call it poking holes rather than destroying utopia. It's like the conspiracy in TUC, Cartwright was acting with a cabal, not with the blessing of the admiralty itself.
View on Reddit #65178188

theimmortalgoon@reddit

It was more than just one badmiral though. There was the Bolian that Sisko shades out who is in on it. It goes pretty well to the top. In the showrunner’s own words, he wanted “the Federation to be the enemy.” But I want to be clear I still like DS9. And that Roddenberry’s instincts weren’t absolute and he hated things I love about the franchise. It’s difficult to say the hardliners in Undiscovered Country fit into his mold, for instance. But nonetheless, it’s still the showrunners and writers of DS9 explaining that they’re going to break Trek, then them breaking it, and people still say, “Well, no, actually it’s the exact same thing as it always was.” And it simply isn’t the same beast as before. And anyone can see that there is a pretty stark line before and after DS9, again, as was the entire point of the show. That, again, doesn’t make it bad (just like WoK isn’t bad) but it is what it is.
View on Reddit #65183662

DramaticCoat7731@reddit

I certainly understand the points you are making, they are good points. it's just watching the show it doesn't feel like the Federation is the enemy, more like there are enemies within. A very different entity from what we see later on. Also I see the quotes the show runners gave, but i never saw DS9 as breaking Trek. Maybe they have a different definition they are going by? Maybe my sensors are out of alignment? For me it was the natural evolution of Trek, we have our perfect future, let's deconstruct it a little. I never saw the Federation as the bad guy even at the worst of times, unlike PIC S1 where they became the bad guy in the first 20 minutes.
View on Reddit #65196564

VVarder@reddit

And that is why, while I can appreciate DS9 for what it is (rewatching it now even) fighting Roddenberry’s vision is what makes it feel the least like “Star Trek” of the TV shows. At certain points it feels like they actively hate TNG and what it represented. Maybe the newer stuff follows the same pattern. TNG is idealistic to a fault, but I still love it the most.
View on Reddit #65175354

Odd_Cauliflower_8004@reddit

They hated not doing their own thing and being Co strained to someone else guidelines.
View on Reddit #65231481

OhManTFE@reddit

Voyager was well beyond the frontier and it managed to stay truer to the Rodenberry ideal
View on Reddit #65140626

Zorolord@reddit

Yeah but didn't Janeway in the end decide fuck it I'll take Technology from the future to change the timeline to get my crew back to Earth early, and save lives. Oh and plus she practically destroyed the Borg collective., and introduced future technology to the Voyager's present. Not sure how the tempoal time agents didn't stop her too, for messing with the timelines again! I mean don't get me wrong I agree with her actions, but Janeway was always done the right thing. Changing time isn't the right thing to do.
View on Reddit #65143205

OhManTFE@reddit

none of that interfered with the earth as utopia concept
View on Reddit #65143411

Zorolord@reddit

Captain Rudolph Ransom price example that Humans aren't ethical creatures in the 24th century, and if his crew were just as bad.
View on Reddit #65143660

OhManTFE@reddit

TNG already showed that with badmiral of the week episodes Doesn't change the fact that earth is a utopia
View on Reddit #65144447

Zorolord@reddit

I think your wrong there if they're bad Human Admirals then in power at Starfleet then it shows Earth is not an Utopia. You can't have a uptioian society with bent people in power. That's basically like the TOS episode Apple, in which everyone on the surface of Gamma Trianguli VI seems happy. However it's a charade.
View on Reddit #65145391

Joe_theone@reddit

When somethings threatens that Utopia, it is opposed and not allowed to thrive.
View on Reddit #65182419

OhManTFE@reddit

"She or someone like her will always be with us, waiting for the right climate in which to flourish – spreading fear in the name of righteousness. Vigilance, Mr. Worf. That is the price we have to continually pay." Just because some individuals stray from the path doesn't mean all of Earth collapses out of its utopian state. "We must have an optimistic projection from Earth of today if we are to approve of and identify with Captain Kirk, the crew of the Enterprise, and their mission." [11] Roddenberry later often postulated that the Earth of both Kirk's and Picard's time periods was a paradise, with no poverty, crime or war. (Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Companion, p. 138) After the war ended in 2053, Humanity slowly began to rebuild civilization and the planet, eliminating sickness, hunger, poverty, and despair within two generations. Earth was mostly restored by the 22nd century as the United Earth Government formed, however there were still some lingering effects from the post atomic horror. (Star Trek: Enterprise) "On Earth, there is no poverty, no crime, no war. You look out the window of Starfleet Headquarters and you see paradise. Well, it's easy to be a saint in paradise, but the Maquis do not live in paradise." Sisko - The Maquis Part 2
View on Reddit #65147581

OhManTFE@reddit

Sisko was saying how he once punched out a federation ambassador for making advances towards a young ensign. That's not utopia. You can't have sexual harassment and assault in utopia.
View on Reddit #65136921

Squid_In_Exile@reddit

DS9 was absolutely and explicitly anti-utopian in it's writing and that's been outright stated by the showrunner. It's mostly well written, definitely well acted, but the goal was always to turn Star Trek on it's head.
View on Reddit #65135242

HertzWhenEyeP@reddit

I've always found Roddenberry 's atheism sophomoric, but the idea that humans made some kind of cultural great leap forward to control the biological urge to procreate is flat out crazy
View on Reddit #65136988

theimmortalgoon@reddit

It’s very mid century. It’s the end of 2001, essentially. We become cosmic beings in a sense. More politically for the time, there was an idea of the [New Soviet Man that would come from being in space](https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1086/521746). Coming from a place where your needs were met, and actively engaging with machines on one’s way to the cosmos would change how you perceive reality. Personally, whether I think that life works exactly like that or not, I always really liked the idea. If nothing else, it made Star Trek unique. Like I said, it’s tough on writers, and DS9 as a result had some great character development. But removing the twin pillars of Star Trek: Utopianism and the idea that humans had evolved, kind of made it something other than Star Trek. I like Discovery and Strange New Worlds and all of that. But, in fairness, it was DS9 that said they’re making a new Trek. It is the first “Nu Trek.”
View on Reddit #65139350

Authoritaye@reddit

Clarke is looking right. 
View on Reddit #65120588

TheKeyboardian@reddit

I think it's too early to say, we only have a few people in space at a time now.
View on Reddit #65128144

Fluffy_History@reddit

And this is the least troublesome problem star trek has with genetics and evolution. *shudders*salamanders
View on Reddit #65122068

SatyrSatyr75@reddit

This and Earth is mostly presented as an utopia.
View on Reddit #65121801

KahlessAndMolor@reddit

Geordie once told Barclay that "I've gotten pretty caught up in there myself a couple of times, but I found my way out"  The way both Leah Brahams and Kira Nerys respond very negatively when they find out they are being made into holodeck characters implies there's a big taboo about making and banging holo versions of real people.  Tom once refers to "my days of rescuing Orion slave girls are over" after his marriage, while trying to convince Tuvok that doing a holo version of his wife to resolve the pon farr indicates there's some social stigma around holo porn. Yet at one point Harry implies that he and Tom bang holo characters together at the end of some Captain proton stories, which is very weird.  So yeah it seems like there's some serious social questions around holodeck use
View on Reddit #65365098

Delduthling@reddit

I think it'd be a problem, but also everyone is already leading pretty luxurious lives off the holodeck, never has to worry about money, can pursue career and creative goals unhindered by worry, all that jazz, so an "escape" probably feels somewhat less appealing.
View on Reddit #65338191

PaleSupport17@reddit

As Phlox explained, television and other forms of escapism "lost their appeal when people discovered their real lives were more interesting." That's the whole answer, people in the Federation are simply more interested in real life, they find it funner and more rewarding than fiction. The Holodeck is just an amusing diversion, useful for destressing by oneself, but best enjoyed with friends as seen in Bashir's LARP group in DS9. We latch onto tv and video games as a form of escape because we live in a painful world hostile and uncaring to our wants and needs, but the Federation is an example of a healthy high-trust society that is actually designed to help its citizens flourish. People are far more motivated to go out and participate in society when there are rewards for doing so and there are no artificial barriers to success. Obviously holoaddiction is a thing in the 24th century, but it seems fairly rare, probably mainly afflicting those outsider people like Barclay who even Federation society still hasn't quite accepted yet. The Holodeck tempts comfort for those lonely or in pain, and people in the Federation simply aren't lonely or in pain. Obviously the Holodeck would utterly cripple our own society.
View on Reddit #65255817

ForceGhost47@reddit

I disabled the safety systems. Without that even a holographic bullet can kill.
View on Reddit #65110773

expudiate@reddit (OP)

that was wild.. what do you mean I could die in the holodeck Starfleet?
View on Reddit #65252083

KedynTR@reddit

I think, at least on the Enterprise, no one has such a bad and/or purposeless life that they need to retreat into a fictional one. Except Barclay of course.
View on Reddit #65241030

Phillenium@reddit

I'd bet Starfleet people would be so vanilla in the holodeck for fear of their browsing history leaking.
View on Reddit #65222133

PicadaSalvation@reddit

Lower Decks definitely suggested that’s not true though
View on Reddit #65225181

Phillenium@reddit

Haven't watched it yet. But I stand corrected.
View on Reddit #65231092

MutedBrilliant1593@reddit

How was it cleaned? Was the "waste" transported out? To where? Recycled into the replicator? Yummy! Maybe Sonic cleaned? Did you bring your own towel and clean up after yourself like some sex gym? Or maybe, it was the unspoken disciplinary bottom rung position. "You're on holodeck cleaning duty until further notice." 😱
View on Reddit #65227712

tbt10f@reddit

I'm pretty sure you don't want people to go outside on a starship!
View on Reddit #65227314

rodimus147@reddit

There is a story written as a log of a holodeck repairman on something awful com. It is quite hilarious. https://www.somethingawful.com/news/blue-stripe-life-4/
View on Reddit #65209811

PicadaSalvation@reddit

That is one of the best things I’ve ever read
View on Reddit #65225585

rodimus147@reddit

Seriously. There are others in the series just as funny. Just glad to spread the word.
View on Reddit #65226152

Abe_Bettik@reddit

My personal belief is that they take a ***ton*** of raw power and a ***ton*** of computational processing. Starships get them because they're top of line in every way, they serve many valid mission purposes, and people need dedicated entertainment in "confined" spaces (even those as spacious as a Galaxy class) In other words, people on Earth can use them, but don't have their own personal Holodecks. They'd be things you'd have to make a special trip for like an Amusement park in the current day. Even on DS9 they're seen as a luxury that needs to be specially booked.
View on Reddit #65111395

originalchaosinabox@reddit

Pretty much confirmed in a recent Strange New Worlds episode. The Enterprise gets a prototype Holodeck, and it draws so much power and uses so much processing power it cripples the ship.
View on Reddit #65223738

Zorolord@reddit

That's way you're wrong id find my way to have my own personal holodeck!
View on Reddit #65143446

Unlikely-Medicine289@reddit

>They'd be things you'd have to make a special trip for like an Amusement park in the current day. Yet holonovel are a super common talked about thing. I don't think they would use that terminology for an activity that wasn't something that could only be done at home in at least some capacity in fully civilized areas. The idea that holoNOVEL specifically is used could imply that home based iterations are much smaller, maybe closet sized, and less powerful. Lacking the computational power to fully process lifelike NPCs and scenery on the fly and relying on preprogrammed characters...much like how a lot of older games used pre-rendered backgrounds and scenery to have better graphics than could have been otherwise generated personal computers. This would also explain why Riker was so blown away by the holodecks on the Enterprise D. Otherwise, people are going to theme parks just to see novels? I think they would use holoMOVIES or holoPLAYS if it was something you could only do by going to a holosuite establishment. Just think how many of those you would need to be open to service your standard city. While I'm sure there are places with publicly accessible full power holosuites like in the show throughout the federation, there must be a home version of this 23rd century technology. I'm not saying everyone has one, but they are probably as popular/common as gaming computers and gaming consoles are today, with the big difference being that reduced power and active space compared to the bleeding edge holodecks that Starfleet runs. Also explains why we never see Starfleet officers active/or retired with personal holodecks: they are too used to the good stuff and going to the standard personal models is like playing a game on a budget PC. >Even on DS9 they're seen as a luxury that needs to be specially booked. DS9 is a previously low priority frontier station built by the technologically inferior cardassians, and they always seemed to struggle with reconciling that with federation tech, so not necessarily a good representation of modern federation living conditions. Space, power, and technical resources are necessarily limited. It's worth it in this case for Quark to use outside resources to install high end holosuites of his own, and stock them with proprietary programs.sonce he will make profit.
View on Reddit #65129131

rabidninjawombat@reddit

I think your right. I remembet a specific line from a DS9 EPISODE where sisko talks about using up his transporter credits for the month when he was younger. Implying there is some link to how much power one can use
View on Reddit #65116424

Xibby@reddit

> I remembet a specific line from a DS9 EPISODE where sisko talks about using up his transporter credits for the month when he was younger. Implying there is some link to how much power one can use I think that really nails it. Power for your normal needs and wants, that’s easy. From central grid to micro-fusion (or whatever) everyone on Earth (and UFP member worlds in the TNG era) has all the power needed for modern living basically for free. But the computational power needed for transporters, holodecks, etc. is still significant. So a site to site transport is “expensive.” A hub to hub transport where you have to walk/ground transport/shuttle to one hub, get beamed to another, and have to walk/ground transport/shuttle to your destination is still expensive in terms of power requirements and thus rationed. Now think of experiences and tourist attractions. Instead of charging admission Disney World would have a waiting list. You’re not eating at Skisko’s every day. The economy isn’t currency based, but there is definitely an economy based on trade happening to get on “the list” for experiences. Visiting Bozeman, Montana probably isn’t a high value experience and has multiple open slots every day if you have the transporter credits to get there. A starship captain would likely trade a lot of transporter credits for a front row seat to watch his favorite water polo team play while his ship is visiting Earth. In a post-scarcity society, entertainment & leisure become the center or trade. A park can only accommodate so many hikers, campers, boaters, whatever. A theme park can only accommodate so many people. A restaurant can only serve so many people every night. An art museum can only accommodate so many visitors… and then you get to the value people place on real vs. replicated … for example a vineyard can only produce so many bottles of wine. Just like today it will be a mush-mash of if you’re trading with grinds/family or strangers… provably be an crazy network of independent markets based on interests, timelines, weather patterns, and what ever else might make an experience on one season more valuable than an experience at the same location in another season, and what the demand is.
View on Reddit #65127577

Enchelion@reddit

That was probably just a rule at the academy, to keep kids somewhat present on campus.
View on Reddit #65127317

LightofJah@reddit

They also seem mostly available to senior crew
View on Reddit #65125899

crunchthenumbers01@reddit

I think that was more a military discipline thing.
View on Reddit #65124624

Enchelion@reddit

Ships also have massive powerplants that are generating ungodly amounts of energy while being supremely dangerous. So you've often got the power to spare (ignoring Voyagers whole weird separate power handwaved). You don't put M/A reactors on planet surfaces.
View on Reddit #65127285

expudiate@reddit (OP)

that's the part of the lore that just doesn't sit right with me, like you want me to believe, these guys can travel at warp speed, breaking physics as is, but they cant mass produce this fantasy generator?... no, that's just too far
View on Reddit #65113037

Abe_Bettik@reddit

They don't exactly mass-produce Starships, either. Private starships are quite rare, they're military / government vessels first and foremost.
View on Reddit #65114142

expudiate@reddit (OP)

oh yeah... good point, i sometimes forget these starships are military vehicles akin to a destroyer with the power of all earthly nukes
View on Reddit #65114277

thestrangerhere@reddit

I am new to StarTrek but id like to think that, as bad as technology has affected humans, is only human nature to continuously evolve, and, even tho it seems like for now the "standard" of living is still tied to our earlier origins of enjoying a "normal" mamal life and having nature as our goal of living a happy and fulfilling live, eventualy, we will evolve into being in a better touch with technology advancements. I dont say I agree with this feature fully, but we have no way of going against our own nature of living beings to evolve into being suitable of the life and society we are gonna be part of Maybe I'm wrong
View on Reddit #65221011

Phendrena@reddit

Give me a holodeck and i'm outta here, Tamriel here I come.
View on Reddit #65219029

RegionRatHoosier@reddit

https://preview.redd.it/2rbnieve8plf1.jpeg?width=626&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1341ab435f0b3a9e83d66237b12ca2d60ecd6cf7
View on Reddit #65211853

Fit-Force-7975@reddit

It would be sorely tempting to escape romantic rejections in the holodeck, where you could design your ideal partner and live out a fantasy with him/her after hours, or even have in room holo projectors installed to bring the simulation home.
View on Reddit #65209614

fryamtheeggguy@reddit

Every quarters would have a little holosuite, just because it would literally be as ubiquitous as internet porn.
View on Reddit #65208239

jinpayne@reddit

The holodeck feels even more dystopian and terrifying in a modern context than a futuristic fantasy technology.
View on Reddit #65206243

CumulativeHazard@reddit

Oh I would *1000%* be addicted to the holodeck lol
View on Reddit #65205709

YdocT@reddit

Do Not "Just go outside" if you live imam interstellar space ship. The more you know
View on Reddit #65203287

PresentDangers@reddit

The answer is in your title: it's a utopic future. I've got to imagine that if Picard was truly able to promise Q that man had changed so so much, we must have made some advancement towards ending addictive behaviours, both mental and physical.
View on Reddit #65201688

No-Flight-4214@reddit

Ai art is one step from holodeck pimps
View on Reddit #65201402

positronProfile@reddit

Addiction flourishes in helplessness, poverty, illness, boredom, etc. All things that are rare in 24th century Federation.
View on Reddit #65196040

lordnewington@reddit

going outside of a spaceship is bad, actually
View on Reddit #65190251

NeoDemocedes@reddit

One of the great things about old Trek is it had an overly optomistic view of humanity. That all our societal problems could be solved.
View on Reddit #65189748

DrawingCivil7686@reddit

Since someone posted this, i gotta respond about the episode: While I was watching this, I kept thinking,' this is cringe ', but in the end, i was like, " ohh shit, mind blown!!, it was in a holodeck inside of the holodeck!! " And then as I was going to sleep, I was like," ohh, no, it wasn't. " But the next day at work, i did get a little teary-eyed.
View on Reddit #65189086

TerribleBid8416@reddit

You assume Quarks had holodecks when it was Terok Nor. So what shenanigans did the Cardassians do in them?
View on Reddit #65138420

expudiate@reddit (OP)

knowing them, they'd probably just stage mock trials for bajorans, they seem to get a kick out of that
View on Reddit #65176795

neriad200@reddit

I think your theory has a good base assumption. For one, we have to keep in mind that Star Fleet is pretty much very aspirational and only the cream of the crop in terms of ability and motivation get in; even Barclay, for all his obvious quirks and massive social anxiety is an engineer good enough to serve on the flagship of the entire govt space  presence. For another, in a semi post-scarcity world, many of the less motivated and/or talented would have nothing to do but exist. And while I'm sure many would sometime contribute to get some bonuses to their free stuff (e.g. you love to see new places and live there for a while, visiting stuff, so you need and want  more  transporter credits so you take odd jobs wherever you go doing something you're able to, even if it's picking fruit for a farm that boasts their "traditional" agricultural methods), most people would just exist to consume with no real input to be had. Based on above, and the fact that TNG is from a time when computers weren't as prevalent and noone could've imagined just how much someone can lose themselves in a piece of technology or interactive media, it's probably one of those things that could naturally fit in the Star Trek universe as a whole with no effort.  This doesn't even touch on people that are actually into tech and the level of integration they could reach, esp condisering how many things that could be used by randos for their fun or obsession we can see in all the series, even if it's glossed over background stuff because it's not the focus. I can honestly imagine some guy in that universe boasting his "almost complete" homelab, where the servers could solve p VS np in under 1h and powered by twin micro-blackholes, using the interaction to create current. 
View on Reddit #65174531

uwulemon@reddit

the way I see it barcly was just using an advanced mii maker. I used to name characters in game after friends and rivals. So long as its kept hidden I dont care who uses my likeness
View on Reddit #65131385

vanillaxbean1@reddit

I always thought it was the equivalent of imagining stuff/fantasises in your head, which isn't real and private. You can think whatever you want of me as long as I never know and you aren't sharing it with others. Barclays was an accident, he never intended for anyone to see his holodeck story, it was supposed to be 100% private. With Geordie he let his holodeck of Leah Bramhs public and shared it with her.
View on Reddit #65148296

uwulemon@reddit

honestly dont forget to turn off the holodeck should be a top seminar for all crew
View on Reddit #65158931

vanillaxbean1@reddit

And put a password on 🤣
View on Reddit #65172565

NotFrankZappaToday@reddit

We are already doing that now to some extent with video games, tablets, smartphones, and AI companions. It's certainly not farfetched to think that a Holodeck would be an all-out society destroyer.
View on Reddit #65171705

Unhappy_Run8154@reddit

How many of us would just recreate our childhood homes and all the people we lost?
View on Reddit #65171293

TheDivergentNeuron@reddit

VR didn't collapse society
View on Reddit #65163744

Worldly-Ad-9303@reddit

If I had a holodeck I'd never leave the house, would that be unhealthy? Maybe? But imagine a different adventure every day. I'd feel like a modern day Mr Benn (oldish guy ref there!)
View on Reddit #65162381

TelenorTheGNP@reddit

I mean, going outside the Enterprise means you're in space.
View on Reddit #65162205

Practical-Giraffe-84@reddit

Lower decks found the best way to cure someone of holodeck addiction. They get assigned to clean the Holo deck filters!
View on Reddit #65160467

quigongingerbreadman@reddit

If that tech were available today, absolutely. But remember, in TNG we've evolved culturally to the point that humans no longer need a holodeck to have an amazing and fulfilling life. On top of that, we've culturally matured to the point that escapism is seen as a cultural faux pas. Especially when there is literally a galaxy of discovery a shuttle ride away. In TNG we've evolved into the best versions of ourselves that would not seek to escape reality, but instead grab it with both hands and enjoy the ride.
View on Reddit #65111185

PhotographingLight@reddit

This is the canon answer.
View on Reddit #65157760

Richvideo@reddit

Many trips to Risa and getting addicted to video games seem like people are still looking to escape the real world.
View on Reddit #65117441

DVariant@reddit

We must’ve literally evolved biologically too then
View on Reddit #65112786

PainKiller7777@reddit

That's what she said! 😂 Human animal passions may see the inside of the holodeck, eh?
View on Reddit #65112616

cruiserflyer@reddit

Scott Adams from Dilbert (I know, I know) speculated in one of his books from the 90s that the Holodeck would be mankind's last invention. Saying if he had one he would lock himself in and wouldn't come out again. I certainly get that.
View on Reddit #65157495

Knightmare945@reddit

I would be using the holosuite every day if it existed in real life. Yeah, it definitely would be a problem.
View on Reddit #65152451

ChironXII@reddit

Addiction typically raises as a displacement behavior substituting for an unmet need... It is the difference between people who have a healthy relationship with any number of things and those who don't. So, true addiction in the clinical sense should be rarer in the advanced and liberalized economy and social order of the Federation. And in fact we mostly see holodecks in precisely the confined or distant places where you wouldn't be able to pursue a healthier, more desirable alternative. It's possible this is because there's simply less demand in more open and socially diverse spaces, where holodecks would be treated as a rarer and semi-expensive novelty or shared social opportunity, like a theater or amusement park ride. We have seen though that things are still far from perfect in many ways, so it is also very possible that it is a problem. The Federation certainly seems to have the potential resources and insight to address it, in any case
View on Reddit #65152383

BDD_JD@reddit

It probably is more common. I think the biggest limiting factor seems to be that they aren't so available everyone has one. They seem to be more like the equivalent of movie theaters in the 90s. They're available but not all the time and not always when you want them. The super well-off may have their own but due to the cost of the technology pretty much no one else does. So you have to plan out when you want to go and what you want to "see" then "buy" your tickets. Once your "show" is over, you leave, and the next "show" starts or the staff clean it. I'm also guessing that it would probably be something that was very much taboo based on how they treated Barclay. For all of the forward enlightened thinking that we seem to see in trek addiction is really really frowned upon. Because his memory serves correctly, they seemed to treat his addiction as more of they were angry with him than he needed help.
View on Reddit #65149656

Avinor_Empires@reddit

There is a 100% chance that someone had to restrict Wesley's Holodeck time because he was in there spraying Hep C loads and secretions every day while running the Robin Lefler program.
View on Reddit #65149157

Voidstarmaster@reddit

The only major argument against the holodeck/ holosuite is the fact that it isn't real and you know it. It is like the episode with the hot AF, latent Q girl (D'Abo?). She wanted Riker's d. She Q-ed him to love her, but then was like, "f this. I can't fool myself. It's not real." So for Rick and Morty style orgies, holodeck yes, please! For meaningful relationships with a real person, holodeck no. It is clear that Lt. 🥦 had many social and emotional issues. His holo dysfunction is hyper fueled by these issues. Every time something went wrong IRL, he'd run to the holodeck and the Goddess of Empathy. It was his escape, his safe space.
View on Reddit #65118644

vanillaxbean1@reddit

I always felt bad for Barclay, his privacy was essentially violated - he never intended his holo story to be seen by anyone but himself. I'm sure we've all imagined our asshole boss as a loser. I guess the difference on when it becomes bad would be is intent on sharing /making these holo stories with real people public and accessable to others. But really if someone made a holodeck of me and I never knew about it and it was never shared I don't care and don't want to know, as to me its essentially the same as someone just using their imagination which isn't real. I also felt bad for Geordie but what Geordie did was publicly expose his holodeck version of Leah Brahms to the real Leah Brahms, he should have just kept it to himself and not let it interfere with real life- that's when it becomes a problem and becomes a violation of others. Although I suppose Barclay was letting his holodeck story interfere with his real life but it was only affecting him badly, (until they all saw it unfortunately).
View on Reddit #65148960

TheBl4ckFox@reddit

So you live in a society where you don't have to worry about money or food or shelter and you can step into a room that makes your wildes fantasies come true. Why would someone LEAVE the holodeck?
View on Reddit #65148687

factoid_@reddit

If I had a holodeck I'd never go outside. You're telling me I can stay inside where it's air conditioned, but I can physically be anywhere I want and do anything I want?
View on Reddit #65147720

Nawnp@reddit

Quark on DS9 regularly rents holodecks and non human species regularly show up with their own programs. We know what goes on in there.
View on Reddit #65144778

Several-Hawk-9135@reddit

If it were possible i'd live in a holodeck 24/7.
View on Reddit #65143673

Uhtred_McUhtredson@reddit

After the recent SNW I’ve been thinking about holodeck again. They must be highly regulated on starships. Otherwise crew may be spending all their free time there. Whenever the senior crew needed one, one was always available. Do houses on Earth have a holo room? When the concept was developed internet and phone addiction was unknown. The writer’s believed society would develop to no longer watch television, which I thought was a ridiculous notion at the time. But we are doing it. I assume the writers thought humanity would return more to the arts and recreation, not more individualized forms of entertainment and escapism.
View on Reddit #65113341

YYZYYC@reddit

Dr Crusher did tell us they had medication to prevent or stop a drug addiction (early season 1 or 2 episodes). Which of course makes Rafi in Picard seem ludicrous
View on Reddit #65114357

Enchelion@reddit

The Nancy Reagan "drugs are bad m'kay" episode felt weird even at the time and was ignored pretty immediately. Same for Crusher's "we've cured the common cold and headaches are signs of serious illness!" From the same season.
View on Reddit #65127548

YYZYYC@reddit

Why? What was weird about those things ?
View on Reddit #65143647

Uhtred_McUhtredson@reddit

Seems like in the 24th century addiction is a choice. And on Picard it seems almost everyone made that choice.
View on Reddit #65114606

YYZYYC@reddit

Well I mean I might choose drugs myself once they took away the carpets from the starships and built more of those silly pointy sovereign class type designs
View on Reddit #65115138

expudiate@reddit (OP)

i love their sincere optimism about the future, really shows in the material at times.
View on Reddit #65113805

Uhtred_McUhtredson@reddit

I think that’s a huge reason why it remains so many people’s “comfort show”
View on Reddit #65113840

expudiate@reddit (OP)

clicked on it randomly and got hooked immediately, like you can tell folks had fun making it, its heartwarmingly infectious
View on Reddit #65114162

ZoNeS_v2@reddit

[This would be the most common part of daily life in Star Trek](https://youtube.com/shorts/zZlLjOAU610?si=pNVLFnEy-VUrnAMX)
View on Reddit #65142846

ZombiesAtKendall@reddit

Maybe it gets boring after a while. Kind of like the Q that wanted to die (but on a lesser scale). Like when there is a Steam sale (the gaming thing, not water vapor) and you end up with 100’s of games you never play. Now imagine (in today’s context) you have every video and computer game ever made, how many games do you actually play? Or perhaps addiction is an issue for some but the holodeck is a limited resource. How much time does the average (or median) crew member get? Starfleet members are also supposed to be disciplined and all that as well.
View on Reddit #65142513

Zorolord@reddit

I would never have any real life interactions if I had access to a holodeck. You could literally do anything on the go back to the time of Dinosaurs, be a captain of a pirate ship or be Captain Nemo of the Nautilus. Then there is all the smutty stuff you could do too
View on Reddit #65142302

LazarusattheGate@reddit

At least for Earth, they're post scarcity and post-money. So all you have is your reputation. I think they underplay how much shame and prestige would be the new forms of poverty and wealth. A holosuite addict would be like a drug addict or alcoholic. "You can do anything...and this is the only thing you do?" That's my guess.
View on Reddit #65141877

Cliomancer@reddit

Don't forget Rom of course. I guess one part about the federation worlds attempting to be utopian is that they try to make sure real life doesn't suck. Also mental health support is there for people who need it, thanks to presumably free healthcare.
View on Reddit #65139068

KorEl555@reddit

I get the impression that it wasn't that common in general society. Or even in the fleet. It was added to new ships with the Enterprise D and the rest of the Galaxy class. Something for those who would be in space for an extended period of time, with little chance of shore leave on class M planets.
View on Reddit #65137307

Aggravating_Mix8959@reddit

The Equinox on VOY had a crappy early holodeck version. It was an issue for them. 
View on Reddit #65138928

Puzzleheaded_Name511@reddit

Humans have evolved past needing fake stimuli. They are literally cruising through space, sleeping with aliens, and have no depression or anxiety.
View on Reddit #65116933

Aggravating_Mix8959@reddit

Barclay has pretty intense anxiety. 
View on Reddit #65138864

Norsehound@reddit

If you have a holodeck, why would you ever want to leave? How would you ever be sure you've left? And if you're in a Federation that has done away with material possessions by providing anything in unlimited quantity, what's stopping you from being able to, for free, replicate all the things you need to create a self-powering holodeck and live there forever? And what's to stop the notoriously incentive humans from creating such an apparatus for their own self gratification?
View on Reddit #65116477

Aggravating_Mix8959@reddit

Hi Moriarty! 
View on Reddit #65138837

Adventurous-Line1014@reddit

There'd be all kinds of filters, you couldn't have any real fun
View on Reddit #65110363

Abe_Bettik@reddit

Holo-sex is implicitly implied several times in TNG, and outright confirmed as it's primary use case in DS9. I'm also fairly certain that practically any type of content you can find on Steam today would be fair-game on the Holo-Deck.
View on Reddit #65110992

MassiveCursive@reddit

I dont think quarks is subject to all federation laws, its bajor jurisdiction. Im pretty sure that cisco says it is, but he lets a lot slide with quark.
View on Reddit #65111564

LausXY@reddit

There is a scene in an early TNG episode where Riker is getting turned on by something and you can see he’s frustrated and he says something like “I’ll be on the holodeck” so it’s heavily implied even in TNG and confirmed in Lower Decks
View on Reddit #65128344

Aggravating_Mix8959@reddit

I'll be in my bunk...
View on Reddit #65138607

Enchelion@reddit

Lower Decks, in like the first episode, has a character showing off their "completely nude Olympics training gym" program.
View on Reddit #65127377

saliczar@reddit

No wonder Miles took that post, and Keiko is always mad.
View on Reddit #65113070

Fluffy_History@reddit

And blantantly stated in voyager.
View on Reddit #65122101

Adventurous-Line1014@reddit

But I'm pretty sure games involving a chainsaw and large crowds will probably be banned. Not to mention fish baseball, or catapult, with real cats.
View on Reddit #65111409

Dave_A480@reddit

Based on 'Business as Usual', things that are illegal to do in real life are perfectly legal to do in the holodeck, so long as only holograms are on the recieving end... Arms dealing on DS9 will end up with Odo throwing you in a cell... Holographic arms-dealing in Quark's? As long as no actual weapons are brought to DS9, absolutely legal....
View on Reddit #65113011

Abe_Bettik@reddit

I dunno, Worf gets into some sorta bloody stuff. I think that stuff would be fair game but if your therapist/counselor found out about it they'd have a chat.
View on Reddit #65112000

Adventurous-Line1014@reddit

Google would probably be running the holo suites.
View on Reddit #65112598

Adventurous-Line1014@reddit

Kind of like the current state of AI. If it's not running as an air gapped standalone, you better play nice.
View on Reddit #65112844

Nobodyinpartic3@reddit

The holodeck has a sex filter, according to Lower Decks. The Ensigns clean it out occasionally. All of which begs the question: "holy shit, is Vulcan sperm really that tough? I just assumed they would either beam it out or just use lights to sanitize the holodeck. It can create any environment like the life support systems"
View on Reddit #65111300

DadtheGameMaster@reddit

May I remind that in Lower Decks which is Star Trek Canon after TNG, DS9, and VOY they had to change the holodeck *achem* filters as part of their duties.
View on Reddit #65117803

jackrabbit323@reddit

What filters? Worf was playing Holo-Doom to get his bloodlust on, and Tuvok was all bottled up ready to pop, he had to meet up with the holo-version of his wife. No way Janeway was keeping it PG-13 with her Irish holo-hunk.
View on Reddit #65111536

Mega-Steve@reddit

"Computer, delete the pants"
View on Reddit #65111835

Adventurous-Line1014@reddit

" This program will now close, your counselor has been advised"
View on Reddit #65112697

Klutzy-Bag7486@reddit

In Star Trek online they brought in a storyline that there was another side to the federation. People had to mine the titanium and other things to make the starships. Their conditions sucked to say the least. Holodecks were their only release and the workers would riot if their holodecks broke and they couldn’t use them. Some missions were restoring the holodecks.
View on Reddit #65136895

DreadDelgarth@reddit

I'm going to leave my favorite webcomic right here. It speaks to this, but in a world in which there's no reason not to become addicted. [The Last Generation](https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/2013-11-22)
View on Reddit #65136529

BoulderCreature@reddit

Isn’t the Holodeck a pretty new technology? I thought they mentioned early on that the one in the Enterprise is the first one
View on Reddit #65118575

SparkyFrog@reddit

No, just that it’s more advanced than the old ones
View on Reddit #65136485

SparkyFrog@reddit

There are hints that it’s not really as realistic as it looks to the tv viewer. They always seem to know where the exit would appear, and they don’t try to open arch right next to the exit or a wall. Riker only met one holodeck character that he was really into, and I doubt it was due to lack of trying from his part. Okay, in some episodes the characters aren’t able to tell the difference, but you cant expect the writers to fill every plot hole.
View on Reddit #65136384

TheBookofBobaFett3@reddit

I know they’ve evolved past money etc but you’re not telling me ensign Jimmy gets anywhere near as much access to the holo deck as the captain.
View on Reddit #65135554

TrifectaOfSquish@reddit

Maybe given everything that happens in WW3 the people with the genes most likely to make them prone to it got wiped out and a few generations later you have selection pressures that mean Barclay is a rare exception
View on Reddit #65133599

rbowen2000@reddit

When you live on The Enterprise, going outside can have uncomfortable side effects.
View on Reddit #65133524

NorthernSimian@reddit

Why would you go outside into the cold vacuum of space?
View on Reddit #65132108

alanskimp@reddit

I would live in a holodeck program... I would use up the entire ram/cpu usage of the enterprise
View on Reddit #65131290

endothird@reddit

I think culturally, they have embraced the quest for self improvement and the quest to improve things for the galaxy and to embrace curiosity and discovery. So I don't think it's much of a problem. Probably a small minority.
View on Reddit #65130302

Mass-Effect-6932@reddit

Geordi made his own personal hologram of Dr Leah Brahms. If he was in the 21 century this would have ended his career probably.
View on Reddit #65130245

Lerosh_Falcon@reddit

You're thinking like a 21st century human being. Denizons of the 24th century live for their own and other people's lives embetterment, you live paycheck to paycheck (probably). This difference alone would make wonders to an average mental health.
View on Reddit #65130032

Brief-Awareness-2415@reddit

I hope someone ported Skyrim to a holo-matrix compatible system!
View on Reddit #65128388

jdlyga@reddit

https://preview.redd.it/18s5xb4qthlf1.jpeg?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e76c249281bc448174189cfa83f227d007fc81e4 This was the theme of an episode in The Orville - Primal Urges. Bortus develops an addition to the environmental simulator (holodeck)
View on Reddit #65128129

Used-Gas-6525@reddit

Starfleet directive 34: if it exists, someone is doing something sexual with it in the holodeck.
View on Reddit #65111019

expudiate@reddit (OP)

remember when Quark tried to pimp out Major Kira's likeness to some alien Bezos
View on Reddit #65112802

Used-Gas-6525@reddit

Man, that sounds creepier than anything Riker ever did, and he was super creepy.
View on Reddit #65115358

Enchelion@reddit

Riker definitely wanted to be seduced. But even then, fooling around with his direct reports and lower deck officers was fucking skeezy.
View on Reddit #65127232

Used-Gas-6525@reddit

In the Perfect Mate he kisses some woman and then heads directly to the holodeck with a sly smirk on his face. I'd hate to be the guy in charge of cleaning out the place when Riker is done with it.
View on Reddit #65127773

mdf7g@reddit

_sensual Horta noises_
View on Reddit #65123172

aloe_veracity@reddit

Yeah, baby. Lemme see that Hortussy. 🥵
View on Reddit #65126302

Unlikely-Medicine289@reddit

>like why would you go outside when you can bring outside inside? Because it's not really outside. I can turn my Xbox on and walk through beautiful landscapes. But it's not real, it's just art. I'm not going to see a real bird or a real fish. Or to put it in Holodeck terms. The holodeck is an inflatable doll compared to the real woman that is outside. (I think that is an appropriate analogy for a holodeck). Good enough when you are stuck on a 5+ year mission, but not as satisfying as actually climbing a mountain.
View on Reddit #65127713

pawogub@reddit

The Barclay episode was interesting because of how he used real people as holodeck characters. They seemed weirded out by it, but weren’t really that disgusted. The current day version would be secretly making deepfakes of real women he knows. Then they have Troi, who he clearly had sex with her holo-recreation give him therapy. You’d think she’d assign him to another counselor.
View on Reddit #65114511

Enchelion@reddit

Maybe there weren't any counselors who he hadn't holo-boinked and Troi just took one for her team.
View on Reddit #65127438

shibby1000@reddit

Yeh that is a trip to think about. I think if it was made today that episode would be more heavily about consent and digital privacy and I doubt Barclay would have got off (hehe) as easy
View on Reddit #65115065

hullgreebles@reddit

These people grew up free from all material wants. I don't think the escapism impulse would be as strong.
View on Reddit #65112076

Enchelion@reddit

And even if it was... So what? You don't have to work for a living in the Federation, so while you might be recommended a counselor to help you socialize better it's not like said addiction is going to leave you on the street.
View on Reddit #65127408

SergeantPsycho@reddit

Fan theory: Starfleet is just a jobs program to keep people employed so they don't spend all day in the holodeck.
View on Reddit #65112201

Uhtred_McUhtredson@reddit

I have considered this as well. Unsettling as it implies humanity is not as culturally evolved as we were led to believe.
View on Reddit #65113463

Forsmormor@reddit

Let's say humanity solves all the major problems, famine, energy, medicine etc. All that's left to do is to enjoy yourself, explore the universe and make contact with other species, and do research, which is what the enterprise does.
View on Reddit #65125949

Uhtred_McUhtredson@reddit

What are you talking about? Star Trek is cosmic horror. How many people randomly die every week on a single starship? How many billions are wiped out every time there is a war every few years. Romulans, Klingons, Cardassians, Zenkathi, Borg… You are deluding yourself.
View on Reddit #65126600

Xibby@reddit

I would be more like Bashir and O’Brian… but skiing every resort on Earth. Post it on the ship’s activity schedule. Direct from Holodeck to 10-Forward for Après Ski, Guinan please set out the ski rack. Even on the Enterprise-D, the holodecks would be limited resources so group activities would be encouraged, especially for junior officers and Lower Decks. I’d also have a hiking club and tranquil group kayaking on the rotation. (And for fun, let’s post it as Group Paddling and see who shows up to kayak and who shows up to contaminate the bio filters.)
View on Reddit #65125825

Plenty_Shine9530@reddit

Oh I would totally be Nog after his injury
View on Reddit #65111422

crunchthenumbers01@reddit

Us Let's love that episode.
View on Reddit #65124973

ghostsietch@reddit

So much cum in the bio-filters. ![gif](giphy|vp122eOzO0Hxm)
View on Reddit #65124088

Purple-Bat811@reddit

Case and point r/MyBoyfriendIsAI
View on Reddit #65123995

RookChan@reddit

This thing alone is a legal conundrum of galactic measures.
View on Reddit #65123902

sidv81@reddit

You could probably have an entire show based around people who lose their sense of morality and perspective in the holodeck, basically Star Trek: Westworld.
View on Reddit #65123085

10ToSfromaSRBalloon@reddit

Oh. Yeah, fuck outside
View on Reddit #65121320

KingCoalFrick@reddit

Speaking from personal experience being a human, everything gets old eventually.
View on Reddit #65118535

Authoritaye@reddit

Or it kills you. 
View on Reddit #65120753

Authoritaye@reddit

No one outside starfleet has the energy budget to power these things. They’re basically the greatest recruiting tool ever.  Is addiction a problem? Of course, but your time is strictly rationed if you can get any at all. 
View on Reddit #65120524

PanthorCasserole@reddit

You can't exactly go outside on a Starship unless you're wearing a space suit.
View on Reddit #65119113

redsandsfort@reddit

Also semen everywhere for sure
View on Reddit #65118481

Disastrous_Cat3912@reddit

Everyone's talking about Barclay and the holodeck, I'm surprised no one mentioned Geordi creeping on Leah Brahms.
View on Reddit #65115720

Comfortable-Pause279@reddit

That was an accident. And the holodeck came on to him. You don't know, there was a bunch of context we all missed.
View on Reddit #65118029

PotentialPlum4945@reddit

Kid has the ability the fuck every pornstar in human history. Still sitting on his phone watching Joe Rogan. Either he's a massive incel, a reddit moderator, or both.
View on Reddit #65116592

kasetti@reddit

Maybe the holodeck is part of how they convince people rto isk their lives in a job they dont even get paid for
View on Reddit #65116285

Krangs_Droid_Body@reddit

Computer run program Big Booba #69 safeties off.
View on Reddit #65116009

LividLife5541@reddit

The idea is your life is so fulfilling you don't need an escape.
View on Reddit #65114994

yodaface@reddit

I love the episode with female jennsen where everyone wants to bang her and riker resists and pushes her away then calls the bridge and says "if you need me I'll be on the holodeck". He was banging hardcore in there.
View on Reddit #65114754

TheAussieWatchGuy@reddit

That's why it's so hard to get into Starfleet. 1% of people going boldy where no one has gone before. The other 99% boning down in the holodeck. 
View on Reddit #65113211

YYZYYC@reddit

I mean that’s kinda what is outlined in the TMP novelization. Starfleet members are basically old school humans and most people are “new humans” who prefer to stay on earth and not travel and are also interconnected telepathically….sounds a bit borg like.
View on Reddit #65114542

el-Douche_Canoe@reddit

I think I would visit Westworld
View on Reddit #65113415

expudiate@reddit (OP)

just wait until your main character starts becoming self aware... those bullets are gonna start hurting real soon
View on Reddit #65114450

MrEPCOT@reddit

The holodeck would be fun for fantasy worlds and stuff, but when it comes to real world places even the most sophisticated simulations will never compare to the real thing. Spooling up, say, Paris in the holodeck is silly when you can just instantaneously beam there.
View on Reddit #65114272

humunculicious@reddit

I’d like to believe that self control is a natural part of living in a post want society.
View on Reddit #65113111

Goadfang@reddit

Maybe phone and video game addiction is a poor comparison. The Holo Deck is physically taxing, requiring participants to run, jump, and expert themselves in all sorts of manner (know what I mean?) Sure, maybe its addictive, but its addictive in the way sports and other active entertainments are. I suppose the truly addictive part, what fucked Barkley up, was being addicted to the power it feels like it gives you over avatars that you can program to look like people you know in real life, but I think that problem is a lot narrower in scope and similarly narrow in who its likely to affect. Most people are just not going to get a big thrill out of programming simulacrums of their friends to act like sycophants. It would really feel weird and creepy. As entertainment options go, i think its not very dangerous societally.
View on Reddit #65112961

Dave_A480@reddit

When 'outside' is outer space, you aren't going there... So there needs to be a way to bring the 'outside'.... Inside....
View on Reddit #65112890

sidv81@reddit

They may not be that common. Prominent people like Picard and Riker don't even have their own starships in Picard
View on Reddit #65112207

Remarkable-Pin-8352@reddit

"Computer. run program Vulcan Love Slave 69: Super Kinky Degen Edition." *"Program ready. Age verification required to continue. Please submit your full Federation and Starfleet ID, a biometric scan, one full pint of blood and a stool sample to continue."*
View on Reddit #65112023

librbmc@reddit

Reminder that holodeck addiction was real in universe, not just Reg https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Holo-addiction Plenty of people would be addicts but life in general in the federation has less systematic issues like poverty so potentially fewer people would want to constantly escape their daily lives.
View on Reddit #65111552

sneaky-pizza@reddit

I think a lot of people would try to barricade themselves inside there
View on Reddit #65111151

cwatson214@reddit

Going outside the starship is a very bad idea...
View on Reddit #65110801