All the Entry Level Luxury Sedans I Tested and Why I Chose Acura TLX
Posted by ubiquitoussense@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 217 comments
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Posted by ubiquitoussense@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 217 comments
[removed]
bikedork5000@reddit
I would give a hard look at a lightly used VW Arteon, top trim with AWD, if I was in the market for a sedan. It's basically the Golf R powertrain! You can do an Apr Plus tune with a warranty, and have a 400hp/380tq awd sedan with a DSG and huge hatch/sportback level of practicality. It's a hidden gem if you ask me. Swap out the silly stock wheels for something nice looking and you're good to go.
Disgusted_Mac_Lifer@reddit
I'd find the Arteon a lot more tempting if it were made by a dependable builder and didn't have an interior that looks like it's cleanable with a garden hose. For my money, the Audi is worth the extra coins for that last reason alone.
bikedork5000@reddit
You say this hose thing as though it's a downside.
Disgusted_Mac_Lifer@reddit
Tee-hee...
Imaginary_Act_3956@reddit
What about a Skoda Superb?
bikedork5000@reddit
I'm in the US. I'm not even sure Skoda is real.
TroyeSavant@reddit
It’s not. Went to Europe didn’t see one skoda. They’re an Ai vaporware company
Innocent-Bystander94@reddit
Superb is a terrible name.
“I drive a superb “
“A superb what?”
“Car”
“It’s superb?”
“Yes”
“Well, what’s so great about it?”
Anyways, I’ve never seen a Skoda so they might as well not exist.
Potential-Ant-6320@reddit
If you use a spreadsheet to compare luxury cars and you consider Acura a luxury brand you will end up with the car closest to a Honda or Toyota so congradulations.
AdministrativeEgg163@reddit
This exactly. I have some coworkers who do this and always end up with some sort of Honda/Toyota/Subaru/Kia because on paper they give the most features/$. It’s hard to explain to people that features alone aren’t luxury.
What a spreadsheet doesn’t tell you is how well each feature is executed. A Sonata and an E-Class may both have leather but the quality, stitching and design of that leather won’t be the same. Both may have upgraded audio systems but the Benz is on another level and so on.
Parking-Highlight-98@reddit
It's also a matter of chassis design.
Any Acura, Lexus, or Genesis that's built off of the FWD/AWD economy chassis is automatically a bit of a downgrade to the term "luxury" to me, you can add AWD to a FWD chassis and some upgraded components all you want but it's ultimately an economy car configuration. It's kind of how I felt about the Lincoln MKZ, even with that 3.0 TT version.
Lexus's unique V8 RWD IS stuff is still appealing to me because it's actually a special, unique design which makes it more "luxury". I'm also fine with RWD/AWD-based chassis that get luxury upgrades (like the Charger -> 300, although this is inverted as the Charger came after, or the Tahoe -> Escalade) because those are inherently less designed around economy needs to begin with.
But yea, a Cadillac CT5/6 or an IS 500 F Sport is definitely more of an actual luxury car to me than a TLX.
dustygator@reddit
I've seen this take before and I feel like I'm missing something. I would understand if this was a conversation about sportiness, but I don't think there is anything about FWD that precludes "luxury". If anything, the packaging advantages should make it easier.
At the end of the day, most people buying luxury cars aren't enthusiasts that are going to push the car anywhere near the limit. If your entire driving experience lives within 5mph of the speed limit, does it really matter?
Parking-Highlight-98@reddit
FWD is designed for economy. There is no other reason to use FWD than packaging cost.
cubs223425@reddit
At the same time, luxury comes down to more than just the powertrain. I don't think sharing a FWD platform kills the ability to be luxurious in how an automaker chooses interior materials, designs features, and focuses on build quality. Saying FWD = "economy," insinuates that non-FWD is something luxurious, but no one would label a Dodge Challenger as luxurious because it's RWD.
Parking-Highlight-98@reddit
It doesn't insinuate anything non-FWD is luxurious, it just simply means its built on a cheaper, economy powertrain. Interior is one thing, but sorry the chassis isn't a true luxury car chassis if its FWD-based, its basically a economy car wearing leather seats. You'd understand more if you looked at luxury cars of the past, in which Cadillac got absolutely humiliated for switching to FWD for everything. RWD always offers superior dynamics and handling.
cubs223425@reddit
Calling it "economy" doesn't just mean that though. FWD cars also have the engine over the drive wheels, which can help with traction in wet/cold weather.
Oh, I guess "the way it's always done," is the only way it can ever be done, and you're the expert for it. Whatever.
Say that if you want, but society has shown repeatedly that it prefers a numb, compliant car that feels like you're driving nothing. The aerage buyer is more interested in comfort than "dynamics," and what you probably consider to fit under that umbrella is the stuff many luxury buyers want nothing to do with. They want noise isolation. They want no road feedback. The people who want "dynamics and handling," are seen as the hardcore "car guy" demographic that everyone says is dying.
Parking-Highlight-98@reddit
Traction in cold/wet weather has almost nothing to do with drivetrain type, thats a bit of a strong misconception, tires matter significantly more. I regularly drove a V6 STS on continental DSW06+ all-season tires through some pretty bad weather tropical rainstorms and winter blizzards and I only saw the traction control light on once after driving it for 8 years. Unless you have something like a hellcat where the torque is so insane it'll slip the car easily, a good pair of tires on a RWD car will do just as well as a FWD car in poor weather, although AWD is always helpful.
"You're the expert for it. Whatever" passive aggressive much? You made up shit that I didn't say to make your point make sense. But that's the reddit special I guess lol.
Also again, I don't give a shit what most of the car-buying public wants because they don't know anything about cars. What, because I don't buy McDonalds because its cheap crap means I'm wrong because Joe Schmoe gets a Big Mac everyday? Who the fuck honestly cares? As long as enthusiast cars exist, the point still stands, FWD is a cheaper car inherently from a chassis design perspective than a RWD one.
Disgusted_Mac_Lifer@reddit
Your very first comment is sloppily reasoned: "Traction in cold/wet weather has almost nothing to do with drivetrain type, thats a bit of a strong misconception, tires matter significantly more." Yes, tires matter significantly more, but the claim of no relationship between foul-weather traction and driven wheels defies basic physics. Quite simply, you've overstated your point to the level of becoming obviously ridiculous.
Parking-Highlight-98@reddit
I said ALMOST, not "no", you made that up.
Disgusted_Mac_Lifer@reddit
I was responding to other similar comments as well as yours. But "almost nothing" isn't true, either.
Houston103@reddit
I mean that's not true at all. There are plenty of reasons to use FWD. Cadillac used FWD in the El Dorado because of the massive amount of room it saved. A smaller dashboard, completely flat floor, and no rear differential taking up trunk space. This makes for a better luxury car.
On top of that, moving to the E body platform actually REDUCED under steer from older versions of the car. The lighter rear end matched with the big block V8 allowed for liftoff oversteer, though nobody really drove their 19 foot long ultra-luxury Cadillac that way in the real world.
Parking-Highlight-98@reddit
That car is an exception to the rule (given it made a switch from a space engineering perspective and not strictly for fuel economy and cheaper packaging), I'm specifically talking about the shift in the 80s to FWD, its partially what made most of them such uninteresting dull things until they decided to switch back to RWD across the board in the early 00s.
ScipioAfricanvs@reddit
I disagree, but I'm on the same page about disregarding sportiness and focusing on luxury.
Luxury cars are traditionally RWD and not FWD (lets take AWD out of the equation for now) because:
Luxury cars are heavier. Because weight transfers to the rear upon acceleration, you are limited on how powerful a FWD car can be and the more powerful you make a FWD car, the more suspension and engineering wizardry you need to do. The front tires lose grip upon weight transfer (wheel hop) whereas in a RWD car the rear tires can put the power down easier. Luxury is smooth acceleration, effortless power and never feeling like the tires are slipping. Because luxury cars are heavier, you need a more powerful engine to deliver that effortless performance. FWD can't easily accommodate that.
FWD is inherently compromised because the front is putting down the power and handling the steering. This leads to worse feel when turning and, again, the RWD car will feel effortless and more neutral when turning because you aren't being pulled, you're being pushed. You are also going to get torque steer in FWD which you don't get in RWD.
Related to the first point, luxury power delivery needs to be smooth. That's why an I6 or V8 is traditionally preferred in a lot of luxury cars. FWD packaging makes it harder to fit larger engines transversally.
A lot of the advantages are mitigated by modern technology, but FWD exists because it's economical packaging. There are few advantages for FWD when looking at it from a luxury angle. That's why even a luxury barge like an LS 500 is still RWD based even though Toyota has way more readily available FWD layouts.
dustygator@reddit
I think it's telling that two of your three points revolve around performance. The auto industry has gotten to the point where performance and luxury are getting commingled in ways that don't always make sense for the consumer.
There is a story I heard somewhere that Mercedes came up with Maybach brand partly because wealthy folks would buy the S63 AMG because it was the most expensive sedan Mercedes made and then complain that the ride quality was too rough for a luxury car.
Yes, FWD is compromised in the power it can put down. Yes, FWD will never corner as well. But those are not necessary qualities of a luxury car. What FWD does have is two advantages that further the goals of a luxury car: it allows for the most efficient packaging & isolation of mechanical components from the passenger cabin.
In my mind, the luxury ideal is being isolated from the outside world as you are whisked in comfort to where you need to be. You shouldn't be bothered by potholed roads, loud engines or the unwashed masses in the streets. You know that Rolls Royce, rolling living room vibe. And guess what, the FWD Lexus LM minivan does a hell of job at that.
ScipioAfricanvs@reddit
I think you missed my point, then. Luxury isn’t about out and out performance. It’s about effortless performance. You need to be smooth, you can’t have high revving noisy engines, loud transmissions, and it needs to drive easy and effortlessly. Those are necessarily tied to performance (a high strung 4 cylinder won’t cut it) but it’s not about flat performance.
megacookie@reddit
I think luxury and performance get conflated because luxury is naturally more expensive, and for a certain price point there's an expectation that there's performance to back it up too. Even if it's not ever going to be driven hard, just for bragging rights in most cases.
As you mentioned FWD definitely puts a limit of sorts on maximum useable engine size and power, though having all that power and cylinders doesn't necessarily make a car more comfortable, refined and quiet. An AMG Merc with a V12 could have a shit ride because the suspension is too stiff and it's on 21" wheels for instance. Considering how much of a premium back seat comfort and space is for a luxury car buyer, having to package a transmission tunnel and rear diff actually gives RWD somewhat of a disadvantage. Not to mention that a longitudinal engine eats up a ton of room so for a given size class the FWD can be more spacious.
Of course big engines, big power, RWD makes for a sportier and more fun driver's car and FWD's economy car roots are impossible to ignore from the perception of luxury. But when dealing with ~$50k entry level luxury sedans as opposed to vastly more expensive ones, it doesn't matter all that much. At this price point everything has some sort of turbo 4 cylinder as an entry level engine and probably 200-250hp, and interior comfort and refinement can vary from decent to crappy regardless of drivetrain.
youreloser@reddit
Lincolns and Cadillacs were largely FWD from the 80s. The Cadillac Eldorado was FWD since the 60s - albeit without torque steer because of the layout. Also Audis and Volvos. The ultra luxury Toyota Century SUV is based off a FWD platform.
ScipioAfricanvs@reddit
And the TLX in question is FWD, but I don't understand your point. Yes, there have been FWD luxury cars - the Lexus ES is probably one of the best luxury cars for the price and is FWD.
That doesn't mean that FWD is basically a cost decision. There are almost no reasons for a luxury car to be FWD other than cost to the OEM.
markeydarkey2@reddit
Packaging is a legitimate reason, longitudinal platforms require cars to be longer in order to have the same interior room & tend to come with a large transmission tunnel hump. A (transverse FWD/AWD) Hyundai Santa Fe has +5" of combined legroom vs a (longitudinal) Mazda CX-90 despite being nearly a foot shorter in length.
Parking-Highlight-98@reddit
And almost everyone agrees that from the 80s-90s is when American luxury really fell off compared to European brands which were almost all universally RWD applications minus Audi (which were shitty VAG products anyway, nothings changed there). The difference in an 80s Cadillac and an 80s Mercedes or BMW was like an entirely different time period. And I say this as someone who wouldn't even dare touch a Euro car now.
GGCRX@reddit
The first front wheel drive car in America was the 1929 Cord L-29, which was a luxury car made by Auburn. Only one car was more expensive when it was new, and that was a Duesenburg.
FWD doesn't exist because its economical packaging, it exists because people wanted lower cars and didn't like driveshaft tunnels.
Luxury means different things to different people. If my goal for a luxury car is a comfortable ride for long road trips and lots of fancy technology and great leather, the drivetrain configuration is meaningless.
KpopMarxist@reddit
Doesn't Genesis mostly use completely unique chassis in their current lineup?
Parking-Highlight-98@reddit
Maybe you're correct, I'm not as researched on Genesis, I just assumed they did what Honda/Toyota would do and base most of their luxury sedans on their economy platforms.
CactusPear_NomNom@reddit
He is indeed correct. For the most part, Genesis uses a different chassis for their vehicles compared to Hyundai.
Only the gv60 shares a platform I believe.
xt1nct@reddit
Genesis uses rwd platforms.
Acura is as luxurious as a Hyundai.
tnt007tarun@reddit
This exactly
I ended up with an accord 2.0t touring, happy with it
Potential-Ant-6320@reddit
I honestly rather have an accord touring than the Acura TLX equivalent.
ShadyDrunks@reddit
If you consider Acura and Lexus the two ends of the spectrum you’re completely throwing away performance out the window and underestimating the reliability of some others
ubiquitoussense@reddit (OP)
Well the spreadsheet is how I organized all my thoughts on here that were floating around AFTER i made my decision
Potential-Ant-6320@reddit
I like spreadsheets too, but there are problems with the TLX. it kind of takes up a lot of space but has poor interior space. If you don’t live in a crowded city it probably doesn’t matter. That said there are some huge advantages of buying or leasing an Acura. Often it makes sense to buy the Acura over the Honda because of the interest rate.
IStillLikeBeers@reddit
Surprised you didn't think the ES rode soft and well damped.
ubiquitoussense@reddit (OP)
It is definitely soft overall, but I noticed it almost bottomed out over some bumps which led to a jarring feeling. Just not as nice as I imagined given the praise. Maybe F Sport/non F Sport makes a difference?
Disgusted_Mac_Lifer@reddit
Interested in what year ES you drove. The generation that ran through 2018 definitely had the reputation you describe. The 7th gen that started in 2019 is built on an entirely different platform and has been reviewed as slightly less plush-riding but far more roadworthy (although still definitely not sporty).
Bassdistortion@reddit
I've driven the es and felt the same. I was expecting super plush ride, but instead it just felt underdamped and just let bumps jar the car. I had a rental q60 at the time which I found way more comfortable (which it better have been since it handled like a wet noodle)
mr-car-van@reddit
This is an incredibly thoughtful and detailed review. I have to say, your methodology for evaluating these cars is exactly what every enthusiast should do: drive them all and trust your own instincts.
It's particularly rewarding to see how you broke down the key criteria—style, comfort, and sportiness—and found that the TLX came out on top. You perfectly captured the essence of the TLX A-Spec: a car that combines a relaxed, confident presence with genuine, all-around performance. The fact that it doesn't try to be a track car but still holds its own on a winding road is a testament to its "Precision Crafted Performance."
Your point about the back seat is well taken, and I agree. The TLX has a spaciousness and presence that others in the class simply don't. It's great to hear you appreciate the interior design and the touchpad as well, as it's a unique and innovative approach that really works for many drivers.
Welcome to the family. If you're looking for new tires or have any other questions, I'm here to help you get the most out of your new TLX.
Amir Tabassi | Burrard Acura Helping enthusiasts find the right car and service You can reach me at 604-318-0220 or by email at atabassi@burrard-acura.ca.
emp_mei_is_bae@reddit
Great size back seat…wut?
ubiquitoussense@reddit (OP)
I'm a 5'10" average sized male, I don't have very tall friends and family, I fit great back there
BTTWchungus@reddit
Definitely an Acura shill
IStillLikeBeers@reddit
Literally 0.1 inches of difference between the TLX and G70 but the G70 has a tiny back seat but the TLX has great space. lmao
puddud4@reddit
How is that even possible? The TLX is based on the Accord and the Accord is one of the top 10 cars with the most rear leg room. It's literally in competition with a Rolls Royce Phantom
eneka@reddit
TLX is not based off the accord
MumpsyDaisy@reddit
I'm pretty sure the TLX is actually on its own bespoke platform.
Which is probably why the packaging is so bad.
And makes it an even more baffling misfire.
IStillLikeBeers@reddit
Legitimately baffling how Acura fucked up packaging that bad. If you want a laugh, open the dimensions for each car for Car and Driver. First you think it’s not bad, but as you scroll you realize the TLX has 10 fewer cubic square feet in the rear and 3 fewer cubic square feet in the trunk.
And weighs 1,000 pounds more.
DodgerBlueRobert1@reddit
Only when comparing the AWD Type-S which has a 3L V6 against a FWD 1.5L I4 Accord, which is obviously not a fair comparison at all. If you compare the base 2.0L FWD TLX with the previous-gen Accord with the 2.0L I4, then it's much closer...about 400 lbs.
DodgerBlueRobert1@reddit
No, it's not. The TLX is on its own unique platform.
crazyjatt@reddit
Lmao. Considering g70 is 10 inches shorter than tlx, its even worse than that. He is on some good shit for sure.
ChuckFinley_is4Ever@reddit
Hey, every tenth of an inch counts!
IStillLikeBeers@reddit
Brother, don't I know it.
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
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batmanbadass69@reddit
Yeah I loved my 2021 TLX but I got rid of it because of the small backseat
MumblesNZ@reddit
Sorry man - but as soon as I saw a 9 for style for the Acura while the Giulia got a 6, I discounted the entire thing. I know style is subjective, but it's not THAT subjective. Anybody who says a TLX is 50% more stylish than an Alfa Giulia is either a fucking Acura employee, or their judgment is so far removed from what I consider reality that I wouldn't even listen to their suggestions for a sandwich.
ubiquitoussense@reddit (OP)
I'd like someone to put in words why they think the Giulia is good looking. Good looking to the point of being unassailable.
MumblesNZ@reddit
Because we have eyes, that’s why
ubiquitoussense@reddit (OP)
Poked the hive mind, received predicted response
nerdpox@reddit
Not even driving the A4 was a choice. It has one of the quietest interiors I’ve ever been in.
SnikySquirrel@reddit
Alfa Romeo Guila… 6 in styling. Huh
puddud4@reddit
I absolutely love the Guilia and recently bought a Stelvio...
That said, the styling is definitely dated. It was a pretty peak 2010s car, capitalizing on a smooth curvy design. However that time is over. We're back to angles. Corvette, Ionic 5, TLX, M3 etc. The Alfa being as stylistic as it was made it age especially fast as well
Bradymyhero@reddit
I kind of agree, I love my red Giulia, it's beautiful but agree a more angular redesign would be more fitting for the times.
Potential_Pound203@reddit
Corvette, Ionic 5, TLX, M3 etc. Thanks for invalidating your own point - All of these are ugly as hell.
DodgerBlueRobert1@reddit
They never said they were good looking. They used those cars as examples of having angles rather than the smooth curvy design of the Giulia.
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canadian_bacon_TO@reddit
All of OPs opinions are invalid after that disrespect to the Alfa.
Innocent-Bystander94@reddit
Nah it’s ugly. It has the soyjack/reddit face on the front. I can’t get over it. It’s not a good looking car.
ByCromThatsAHotTake@reddit
You think it's ugly, I'd say most people don't agree.
Innocent-Bystander94@reddit
The 6th den coupe begs to differ.
I really don’t see the appeal of the Giulia. I just don’t get it.
ByCromThatsAHotTake@reddit
The 6th gen Civic coupe looks like a melted Hot Wheels car that got stuck in the dryer. You do you though.
Windows-XP-Home-NEW@reddit
That’s higher than I expected. What an utterly fucking hideous car.
ByCromThatsAHotTake@reddit
I disagree.
Windows-XP-Home-NEW@reddit
Congratulations.
ByCromThatsAHotTake@reddit
Thanks.
ob_knoxious@reddit
Giulia deserves an 8 in styling at least and a 4 in comfort. Its mostly a 7 in comfort but its not very comfortable when all the window motors jam and the infotainment crashes and you have to unplug the battery and wait 10 minutes for the electronics to reset and you also get stuck having to get gas more because sometimes your fuel gauge suddenly reads zero.
I enjoyed my time with my Giulia (in the process of selling) and never even considered a TLX because of how bland and boring it was. And I feel no one owning a TLX would ever consider a Giulia because of its reliability reputation, which is completely deserved.
ByCromThatsAHotTake@reddit
Pre 2020 model year?
Vhozite@reddit
Not OP but I don’t think the styling is that great. The front looks awkward, and it’s especially bad with a license plate.
ubiquitoussense@reddit (OP)
I expected this comment, ha. I just don't see what people see in it. It looks stubby to me. The face is OK, I like the grille but the lower fascia is weird.
AdministrativeEgg163@reddit
Interesting. Having also driven all of these, mine would be be:
330i - Best all rounder of the bunch, mixing sportiness, practicality and comfort.
C300 - Best looking and most comfortable/luxurious if specced right with good sportiness.
Alfa Giulia - Athlete of the bunch and feels the fastest with the higher power 4 cyl. Interior design and tech could be better but it’s beautiful to look at.
TLX - Decent all rounder but heavy, good sound system but other tech is average, not as practical as the Mercedes or BMW. A bit slow for the class despite the horsepower figure.
CT4-V - Great handling and good looks but unlike the awesome Blackwing model above it, the engine feels pretty unrefined. Interior is dated and it’s too small inside.
Tesla Model 3 (pre- facelift) Drives surprisingly well, even in base form. They are so boring to look at and the interior is too minimalist for my liking. They are so common now that they remind me of Ubers.
For these rankings I tried to mix style, tech, livability, comfort and performance since they are entry level cars. If we were talking about full AMG or M cars I would put more weight into engines and limit handling.
n0t_4_thr0w4w4y@reddit
The Alfa on paper has the most power, but BMW underrate their engines so much that the 330i is faster.
ByCromThatsAHotTake@reddit
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison-test/a30275943/2019-bmw-3-series-vs-2019-alfa-romeo-giulia/
It wasn't in this test that car and drive did when the new 330i hit the streets.
shouldahadaflat4@reddit
I think if we're talking consumer advice/rankings as well long term ownership should factor in somewhat. Bmw has made leaps in reliability and quality whereas Mercedes has struggled mightily in recent years and continues to do so. The Alfa 4 cylinders are not nearly as bad as people make them out to be either. Cadillacs can have some random issues, and I'm not sure about Tesla model 3 reliability (I haven't done any research).
CrankyCurmedgeon@reddit
Did you not consider the Genesis G70 at all? Why?
ubiquitoussense@reddit (OP)
Too ugly. The facelift makes it look like a bug. Also tiny back seat.
ByCromThatsAHotTake@reddit
It's better looking than the TLX, performs better as well, and the back seat is barely any smaller than the TLX.
ManufacturerBest2758@reddit
Tiny backseat in the G70 but you think the TLX backseat criticisms are made up lmao
ubiquitoussense@reddit (OP)
Don’t know what to tell you. I sat in both, the g70 immediately felt small and the TLX felt fine. Headroom is not great in either, but the TLX is wider so maybe that helps with the space.
Scarlet-Highlander-@reddit
o-oh :(
ScipioAfricanvs@reddit
Quite literally the TLX has the same back seat room as the G70. How do you justify that?
Andrey2790@reddit
That's easy, all cons for the Acura are forgiven.
Poobistank@reddit
Back seat complaint is a fair one. I am 6’4” and my driving position basically has 2inches of room behind it for the rear seat.
G80 solves that though, and can be had for the sticker of a (highly optioned) G70, depending on desired options in the G80. I’ve found Genesis dealers are very willing to deal, at least the ones I have interacted with.
ubiquitoussense@reddit (OP)
G80 does interest me, just hard to find used and otherwise pretty expensive
Imaginary_Act_3956@reddit
No Skoda Superb either.......OP is a bozo and a Yankee.
ManufacturerBest2758@reddit
Why would an American consider any Skoda at all?
Poobistank@reddit
Complaining that someone who does not have market access to a car, didn’t consider said car, is peak r/cars.
GaylrdFocker@reddit
Did you try the TLX Type S also or just the A spec?
ubiquitoussense@reddit (OP)
Just A-spec. I have my sports car on the side so for this car I wanted to prioritize comfort and fuel economy
sssozi@reddit
Fuel economy? The TLX gets the worst.
Infernal-restraint@reddit
Is this an Acura shill
Ego-Death@reddit
I can understand people not being impressed by the Giulia if its not the QV but the other trims are still definitively zippy… Where my jaw dropped is when he rated it styling as a six. It’s almost universally praised for being dropped dead gorgeous.
Xperimentx90@reddit
There's a lot to like but the triangle grill is goofy as hell. OP rating a TLX as more stylish than the German cars is also insane.
psimwork@reddit
This is pretty much my thought as well if I approach basically any Alfa Romeo from the back, I'll be like, "hot DAMN that's a good looking car!". This continues alongside, but as soon as I get to the front, I'm just can't get away from, "WTF were they thinking??".
trail-g62Bim@reddit
Thank you! Every time they gushed over one on Top Gear, I always thought "yeah, but why does it still have a pig nose?"
Potential_Pound203@reddit
You must be confusing it with a BMW...
cloudguy-412@reddit
I was about to say the same thing. Can’t take this guy serious after saying that
Gorgenapper@reddit
This is a hotter take, IMO, comparing a fucking Elantra to a SAAB.
handymanshandle@reddit
Damn, I like the way my Elantra looks, but on no planet is it classically beautiful or even reasonably clean like Saabs were.
ubiquitoussense@reddit (OP)
Hahaha. The investigation results don't lie
Wolfo93@reddit
You Sir are truly a blind man :D
cloudguy-412@reddit
Seriously. They don’t look anything alike
2Drogdar2Furious@reddit
"Witness? A ha. I didn't witness nothing, in fact I'm blind in this eye and 43% blind in this eye.... I cant even see you right now sir."
trail-g62Bim@reddit
You gotta ignore preferences on styling, imo. It's purely subjective. There is no "right" answer.
GGCRX@reddit
I'm one of the weirdos who doesn't really care for it. It's very pretty from the front, side, and rear, but when you put those elements together it looks weird.
Like a sports car nose grafted to an old 3-series sedan with.
Windows-XP-Home-NEW@reddit
Universally praised by who exactly? That grille is ugly as fucking sin, really the entire front fascia is. Just as bad as the new BMWs.
The TLX destroys all of these in terms of exterior styling and it’s not even close. That’s something Acura has begun to do really well
gimpwiz@reddit
I think it's pretty ugly. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
ubiquitoussense@reddit (OP)
Yeah, sorry I guess? I just don't see what people see in the Giulia. It's got a strange face and it looks stubby. Rear end is not aggressive at all. Last Alfa I liked was the Brera
testthrowawayzz@reddit
The front looks especially wrong with a license plate
Innocent-Bystander94@reddit
I think the Giulia is one of the ugliest cars ever made and I do t get the hype for it. It’s also gonna be an unreliable piece of shit sooner than not, so there’s that as well.
Saggy_G@reddit
Was gonna say, this is obviously not the QV. That engine is 🤌🤌🤌
WendysChiliAndPepsi@reddit
No, just someone who actually drove cars and formed their own opinion instead of bench racing an automotive zeitgeist.
You would think by how often this subreddit is wrong about cars the general consensus would change.
Infernal-restraint@reddit
I’ve driven all these cars and Acura is not what I’d consider top
GGCRX@reddit
From some perspectives, it's top. If you want something reliable and high-tech that isn't numb to drive, the Acura should be at or near the top of your list. Most of the cars on the list drive great and get good marks for luxury, but the Acura and the two Lexuses are the only ones I'd feel safe betting would see 200,000 miles, and probably without all that much time in the shop.
If you don't mind a lot of down time to fix stuff then yeah, look at the German cars but having driven Acura, Lexus, and BMW I can tell you the BMW pissed me off more than the other two cars combined with all the stupid shit that went wrong with it.
WendysChiliAndPepsi@reddit
And that's totally fine. This person is sharing their anecdote, which is different.
What's dumb as fuck is this post being at 0. It's a high quality researched post. The downvote button is not a disagree button.
Infernal-restraint@reddit
I think it’s because his conclusions are wildly off
WendysChiliAndPepsi@reddit
To you
IStillLikeBeers@reddit
I mean, no, some of the conclusions are just objectively wrong, like saying the TLX has great back seat space.
youreloser@reddit
Isn't the issue that it has poor back seat space for the midsize sedan it is? It has to be roomy compared to compact sedans like the Cadillac which I know is tiny inside, definitely smaller than my first gen TLX.
DodgerBlueRobert1@reddit
The issue is that the current TLX has the exact same size interior as your 1st gen TLX, but the exterior became the size of a previous gen 5-Series. So people’s expectations grew when the car became so big on the outside.
Infernal-restraint@reddit
I’m commenting on the reasons why he is downvoted
cubs223425@reddit
Like when people said this sub was dumb for not embracing touchscreens, then automakers said customers weren't happy with the "all-touch" future, so they'd look at more mechanical functions?
Like when this sub didn't lap up EVs blindly, got called regressive, then the market slowed massively and automakers went back to more ICE and hybrid options?
Just because this sub isn't a fan of the most braindead, generic commuter cars doesn't mean people here don't represent part of the buying demographics. People here are probably much more likely to actively influence others' opinions than the mass market buyers who can't tell you much about their SUVs other than the badges.
IStillLikeBeers@reddit
No, just an architect.
blizzacane85@reddit
Art Vandelay?
Gorgenapper@reddit
Architect guy will never live this down (although he got an Integra, not a TLX, if I recall correctly).
ThePurpleBall@reddit
Only way you can come to the OPs conclusions
ubiquitoussense@reddit (OP)
Haha, loving the reactions. The TLX actually wasn't even on my radar until a couple of months ago. It always looked good to me but didn't seem that sporty. Then I drove one and for me all the gripes about the transmission and the back seat are so overblown.
crazyjatt@reddit
Dude. I dont know how to say it nicely but are you 100% sure you drove a tlx? Its front wheel drive mid size sedan with less legroom than compacts. And it drives like fwd sedan. You think it's more sporty than rwd sedans?
ManufacturerBest2758@reddit
It’s not “overblown” to say the TLX has a smaller backseat and trunk than it should lol. These are design consequences of Acura trying to make it look like a longitudinal RWD platform.
Potential_Pound203@reddit
Giulia Styling - 6
My brother, what??
n0t_4_thr0w4w4y@reddit
As someone who has driven 4/5 cars on this list, you are fucking insane
ubiquitoussense@reddit (OP)
And you would have chosen the 3 series, I presume? Great
puddud4@reddit
I love how obscure this result is. TLX sales have struggled because they don't really have a niche. They're not the best at any one thing. No one knows why this car would be bought.
You've managed provided a legitimate and replicatable answer. Yet people revolt. Hilarious.
Soft suspension/seats, modern design, sharp turn in. The Alfa, Tesla and TLX all have steering ratios of 11:1 or tighter. The BMW has a ratio of 15:1 and is known for being numb. It makes sense that you passed on that.
TLX does have one of the more appealing modern designs. That makes sense.
It's newer than Lexus, Alfa or Audi which also makes sense.
Given your values I'm surprised that the C-Class wasn't the top pick. I guess it is a bit old at this point.
The tech in the TLX is usually considered a downside but for you the old tech may have been a positive. Interesting.
I don't think of myself as a brand snob but idk if I could do a Cadillac.
I like the post. It sounds like you got the right car.
I'm really surprised that you didn't mention reliability or resale value. Someone else made fun of you for the spreadsheet. That's where the tl/TLX has always been a winner. A luxury car more reliable than the Germans and cheaper than Lexus.
ubiquitoussense@reddit (OP)
Thanks man! Are you reading my mind? Because you are right on about everything I thought about. The C300 would be my choice if there were no subjective considerations like styling and brand. It’s great but I’m less drawn to it because Mercedes are a dime a dozen around here and the interior is still a bit screen heavy for my liking. In theory I’d like to keep the car for a long time so Acura reliability was definitely a plus. Imagine if I tried to rank perceived reliability though I’d be crucified. For my TLX I sought out a pre facelift model because it’s got the analog gauges. They look so good and so much more timeless than a digital screen.
infinitumz@reddit
Try the Lexus GS or even better, the GS-F
disposablepresence@reddit
Hey now I don't think you understand how car opinions work. You say what everyone else says and don't DARE let your own subjective experience and tastes impact your opinion.
eh_itzvictor@reddit
Didn't try and Genesis G70? Might not have won, but definitely a good option to compare these to.
nomad_440@reddit
I always appreciate posts that go against the echochamber. Thanks for writing this out OP.
aviciiavbdeadpunk@reddit
wait you drove a 330 but not a m340i?
blackscienceman9@reddit
Isn't the 340 almost 40% more expensive?
That's too big of a difference on a budget
Exact_Mastodon_7803@reddit
Alfa Giulia 6 for style huh? Uh-huh……
466rudy@reddit
Remember The Architect .
Ryukenden000@reddit
Its one of the reasons i got the TLX. The interior and tech is very good in addition to SH-AWD.
For quite some time, Lexus IS was a top contender but the interior is just outdated.
Lucky_caller@reddit
Any reason you didn’t include a Volvo S60?
7eregrine@reddit
Or S90. Also wondering.
clownpirate@reddit
Surprised you found the ES “not plush”. I find it the sedan with hands down the most plush in its price range. Basically by giving minimal concern for any performance enhancing characteristics.
7eregrine@reddit
Agree. We test drive a bunch trying to help my friend fund her dream car. Too plush was the ES.(She bought an RC300)
ripestmango@reddit
People consider Tesla as luxury? Jesus Christ
skippy2k@reddit
Had a loaner of the new gen TLX and it was an awesome. Backseat is alright but that’s the thing, it’s just alright. If you have kids, a rear facing car seat doesn’t fit that well. Relative to cars the same exterior size, the interior space is lackluster.
Megaripple@reddit
Doesn’t the Integra actually have a bit more interior volume?
DodgerBlueRobert1@reddit
Yep. It and the Civic are technically midsized, whereas the TLX is a compact.
ManufacturerBest2758@reddit
Civic and Integra are compact, Accord is midsized.
DodgerBlueRobert1@reddit
That’s how they’re marketed, but according to the EPA, the Civic sedan is a midsize, while the Accord is full-size. The hatchback version of a sedan, such as the Civic and thus the largely identical Integra, will naturally be larger overall due to the bigger cargo area, thus technically moving it into the full-size category. But because the passenger area of the sedan and hatchback are basically identical, they’re still…in a way, midsize. The TLX is a compact.
ManufacturerBest2758@reddit
A full size? You think a civic hatchback and a Mercedes S-class are the same size class of vehicle? Please.
DodgerBlueRobert1@reddit
On the exterior? Obviously not. But with the combined interior and cargo capacity? Yep. Again, that’s how vehicles are classified in the U.S., per the EPA. The S-Class obviously has a much larger passenger cabin than the Civic sedan or hatchback, but the Civic sedan’s trunk is just a little bit bigger than the S-Class’. It’s quite typical for full-size luxury sedans, such as the S-Class and 7-Series, to have relatively small trunks.
Windows-XP-Home-NEW@reddit
Ok, we don’t care how the EPA classifies cars because frankly the EPA classifications are some of the stupidest in the world.
DodgerBlueRobert1@reddit
Don’t say “we”. Say “I”. To me, it makes sense. In Europe, it’s based on the exterior size of the car. Here, it’s the combined interior and cargo.
Windows-XP-Home-NEW@reddit
Clearly I’m not the only one who holds this opinion. You should be saying I
ManufacturerBest2758@reddit
The same EPA that classifies everything as a “light truck” to skirt fuel economy rules? That’s the EPA you’re going with as the authority of vehicle classification?
DodgerBlueRobert1@reddit
Just because that stupid loophole exists doesn’t make the size classification system they use any less relevant.
ManufacturerBest2758@reddit
It definitely doesn’t lend it any particular credibility.
DodgerBlueRobert1@reddit
But these two things have nothing to do with each other. It’s an irrelevant point to bring up. The size classification system they use has been in use for many years, it makes sense, and allows us to classify said cars. There’s really no point to dismiss it just because you don’t agree with everything they do.
RewardNo5228@reddit
yeah
gautamb0@reddit
You’re getting an upvote from me for having an opinion in opposition to the hivemind and seemingly well formed.
7Sans@reddit
It would be nice what year model and trim each one are
Seeing as op didn’t just ride all newest models this post is pretty useless for apple to apple compcsrison
Andrey2790@reddit
At least it's a high effort troll/shill post.
ubiquitoussense@reddit (OP)
lol I should be proud that my post got so many people’s panties in a knot actually. I’ve owned so many brands of cars so the idea of a shill is really funny to me. I already own a BMW but the fact that so many minds are blowing that I didn’t pick the 3 series or that I don’t find the Giulia particularly attractive is just hilarious to see
Andrey2790@reddit
👍
Windows-XP-Home-NEW@reddit
You’re getting a lot of hate but I agree.
0k-Connection@reddit
Well, you’re wrong
Windows-XP-Home-NEW@reddit
you spelt right wrong
ubiquitoussense@reddit (OP)
Damn, I can't catch a break even from the Acura bros!
KingKontinuum@reddit
You should be comparing the CT5 next to these sedans and not the CT4
ubiquitoussense@reddit (OP)
Lol if there's anything I can do today it would be to stop this fight. I agree with KingKontinuum, I actually like the CT5 a lot and even though it looks big it's basically the same size as the TLX. But CT5 has a crap base 2.0 engine,and the V6 upgrade is quite a bit more. They're not easy to find on the used market but I would have liked a CT5 V6 for sure.
KingKontinuum@reddit
Hey, why you picked one car over the other is entirely your choice and your prerogative, I just thought a more reasonable comparison would be the CT5. If you did consider it, that’s great and congratulations on the TLX — it’s awesome and it’s shame it’s being discontinued. With that said, I’m not arguing anymore with that ragebaiting cornball.
ManufacturerBest2758@reddit
CT5 is gigantic
KingKontinuum@reddit
It’s not. It’s classified in the compact sedan category by every publication. That’s the vehicle OP should have compared the others to
Bitter-Fly1230@reddit
Cadillac nor does the media define the segmentation. They only look at the size of the car and all it that. The segmentation “officially” can be more accurately dictated by IHS Polk S&P global mobility and their positioning is relevant because all OEMs dealers and analysts use them. It isn’t even open and available to the public which is why he may be confused on why Cadillac or Car and Driver might call it midsize. Every OEM in the luxury side of the business considers the CT5 compact but the media considers it midsize because they only look at the size of it. That’s ignoring that it’s smaller than other vehicles that occupy the same segment including the TLX.
ManufacturerBest2758@reddit
CT5 is a midsize, the most cursory of searches would reveal this to you. One of my friends at work has a CT5-V and I park my 440 next to it regularly. It’s huge.
KingKontinuum@reddit
I just looked it up and the Acura TLX (the car OP actually bought) is wider and longer than the CT5 so why tf did you even bother commenting this???
ManufacturerBest2758@reddit
It’s literally on Cadillac’s page dude. Open your eyeballs.
KingKontinuum@reddit
I don’t give a fuck what’s on Cadillac’s webpage. Polk and others classify it in the compact luxury car segment and not the mid lux car segment. Both the Acura TLX and CT5 occupy the same segment in the automotive industry. I work in the automotive industry and work with this data all the time. You are just flat out wrong
Again…. OP bought the BIGGER car anyway…. So the entire point of the “CT5 is huge” is irrelevant.
ManufacturerBest2758@reddit
Literally Cadillac themselves: “luxury mid-size sedan” as linked above
Car and driver: “Cadillac’s mid-sizer receives a facelift for 2025…” https://www.caranddriver.com/cadillac/ct5
Edmunds: “ranked 7 of 9 midsized luxury sedans” https://www.edmunds.com/cadillac/ct5/
So yeah man, I don’t give a flying fuck where you claim to work on the internet. It’s a midsize sedan.
KingKontinuum@reddit
IHS Polk/S&P Global Mobility lists the CT5 in the compact luxury sedan segment. https://press.spglobal.com/2024-02-26-S-P-Global-Mobility-Recognizes-28th-Annual-Automotive-Loyalty-Awards-Winners-General-Motors,-Tesla-and-Lincoln-Nautilus-take-Top-Awards-for-Loyalty-in-2023
Notice how you keep ignoring the point that OP purchased the BIGGER car anyway…
Infernal-restraint@reddit
Why did you test a pre facelift Tesla… try the new one
walnut100@reddit
All that's going to do is bring his comfort from a 5 to a 6.
Imaginary_Act_3956@reddit
Says the owner of one of the new "BMW" shitboxes.
walnut100@reddit
Bayon owner calling a 7 series a shitbox was not on my bingo card this morning but kudos for the laugh.
strongmanass@reddit
I bet you're one of those supermodels with ugly pointy elbows.
BTTWchungus@reddit
At least he has his car in his flair, you don't.
strongmanass@reddit
How is that relevant? I was making a joke about someone in a Hyundai calling the flagship BMW a shitbox.
strongmanass@reddit
How is that relevant? I was making a joke about someone in a Hyundai calling the flagship BMW a shitbox.
dayvieee@reddit
I had to look up what the bayon and different strokes for different folks I guess
JiveXP@reddit
What's wrong with an i7?
Infernal-restraint@reddit
Old Model 3 vs new Model 3? Old model 3 is a 1 and new is a 8 so if he is at 5 then the new one is much better.
walnut100@reddit
I take it you didn't read his actual post. The Highland doesn't improve how "luxurious" it feels. They softened suspension on the rear and increased NVH materials.
If he's got a C300 at 7 then I'm sorry but a Highland is capped at 6. Louder, firmer, cheaper materials.
JiveXP@reddit
Which one did you think sounded the best?
ubiquitoussense@reddit (OP)
To be honest none of them! 2.0 Turbos all sound a bit strange. BMW sounds synthesized. Benz is a bit rough. The Caddy has an interesting sound cuz it's a 2.7 but it doesn't rev very high. I'd say Benz because it sounds the least weird.
Ghost1k25@reddit
B48 is the least worst
Poobistank@reddit
Curious why you didn’t look at Genesis? I cross shopped the segment as well, and ended up in a G70 (G80 also comparable depending on desired options). I got a fully loaded 3.3T AWD for around $44k, and it feels much more premium than that.
My history includes everything from Lincoln Continentals, Jeep Rubicons, 240sx drift missles, and even an Audi e-Tron SUV, so I think my breadth of experience is pretty wide.
AdministrativeEgg163@reddit
Interesting. Having also driven all of these, mine would be be:
330i - Best all rounder of the bunch, mixing sportiness, practicality and comfort.
C300 - Best looking and most comfortable/luxurious if specced right with good sportiness.
Alfa Giulia - Athlete of the bunch and feels the fastest with the higher power 4 cyl. Interior design and tech could be better but it’s beautiful to look at.
TLX - Good all rounder but heavy, good sound system but other tech is average, not as practical as the Mercedes or BMW. A bit slow for the class despite the horsepower figure.
Tesla Model 3 ( pre- facelift) Drives surprisingly well, even in base form. They are so boring to look at and the interior is too minimalist for my liking. They are so common now that they remind me of Ubers.
For these rankings I tried to mix style, tech, livability, comfort and performance since they are entry level cars. If we were talking about full AMG or M cars I would put more weight into engines and limit handling.
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