Photos of M231 Firing Port Weapon in US Service
Posted by Brilliant_Ground1948@reddit | ForgottenWeapons | View on Reddit | 46 comments
Posted by Brilliant_Ground1948@reddit | ForgottenWeapons | View on Reddit | 46 comments
boneologist@reddit
Is the one in that last pic dummy corded to the vehicle?
Taolan13@reddit
I served with 2BCT of 10th Mountaib.
These things saw more use as backup weapons for top turret gunners in HMMWVs than they did in their intended purpose.
HefferVids@reddit
Please do tell more! These have always been such a cool concept to me it’s a shame further development didn’t go into them as they definitely seem to have quite a few use cases
Taolan13@reddit
so, basically, the idea of firing ports on an infantry fighting vehicle were a failed concept at inception.
in classic military fashion, it was "planning for the previous war". The idea behind firing ports were that infantry inside the APC could contribute to perimeter security, since armored vehicles tended to have a lot of blind spots.
While they sort-of work as viewports, there is no way to allow a regular infantry weapon to fire out of the ports without compromising the envelope of the inside of the armored vehicle, so dedicated weapons systems were developed.
But, these dedicated weapons systems failed at their intended job because they reduced the available space inside the vehicle, and these were already cramped.
Then, we entered the era of asymmetrical warfare.
No longer were armored vehicles engaging in open fields where enemy infantry could approach from any angle and the firing ports provided wide open sight lines that were arguably critical, instead more and more fighting was being done in tight quarters and especially urban environments.
Unless you were parked in the middle of a crossroads, the firing ports were basically useless.
So, the guns came out, and the firing ports weren't used anymore.
Now, what to do with all these weapons in inventory? they're still valid weapons. These in particular are basically an M4 but with a higher cyclic rate. no front sight because they werent intended to be shoulder fired. there was an idea later to update them with a fixed front sight post in the carry handle, but by that point they had been out of regular use for so long it was deemed not cost effective since you could just throw an optics mount bracket on the carry handle and use that instead.
Some units, especially heavy infantry and cavalry units that had a lot of these, in the early days of what would become OIF/OEF/GWOT, put them in hmmwvs to serve as backup weapons for the turret gunner. And in this capacity, they were great. Small profile, high rate of fire, and used standard stanag magazines so they needed no additional logistics.
bigtedkfan21@reddit
Damn this is some good small arms history right here? How common was it to use captured small arms in this role? My gunny said he had an underfolder ak in his truck for this purpose but he liked to tell sea stories!
AnseaCirin@reddit
It's plausible, especially as AKs are ubiquitous. However, not a good idea as many soldiers will rely on hearing to identify who is firing and where - if you're fighting AK equipped troops/ insurgents, and suddenly hear another AK firing from a direction supposed to be friendly... That might cause friendly fire, or at least confuse the situation - and combat can be pretty chaotic in the first place.
Taolan13@reddit
If you were working with an iraqi or afghan unit directly and had easy access to ak mags and ammo, it was probably done, but officially not recommended.
boon23834@reddit
I had some TLAVs, and there was a mobile shield thing, they would have been nice on those, for the guys in the back.
RamTank@reddit
Also, firing ports are generally a silly idea anyways. It's mostly just useful for suppression at best.
bobbobersin@reddit
Its a shame they canceled the rollout of issuing the emergency use stock for these, I wonder if any units useing Bradley and Bradley derived vehicles purchased aftermarket stuff for them (i wonder if one of the M7A1 style collapsing buffer tube stocks would work one one without causing issues with cycling given the diffrences in the gas system)
tomcatgunner1@reddit
Some of us have the emergency stocks as surplus. I think I still have a box of 10 in my closet sans buffer tube
bobbobersin@reddit
Wait so were they just never issued? I thought they made some to test, realized peolle were takeing the FPWs because they were light and compact and stopped because they didn't want them leaving the vehicles?
tomcatgunner1@reddit
Pretty much. I’ve heard that a few hundred were issued, and the rest were stored away. I bought a few dozen years ago
bobbobersin@reddit
Damn, also correct me if im wrong but they also dont have any sights? (Like they are used with tracers and point fire) is there like clip on sights for them thst go with the stock or is it more so a "yeah this is only to defend yourself till you can get picked up and given a new/repair your existing bradely" situation? Like you just hole up inside and walk your tracers in as needed?
tomcatgunner1@reddit
Think just a carry handle, no actual rear sight, no front sight, point shooting with mags full of tracers so you can walk them on target
bobbobersin@reddit
Is there a hole in the top for a directly mounted sight or rail? I could see that helping both reduce weight slightly and also allow the crew of a knocked out M2 if given the time to slap a CCO or something on top if needed
tomcatgunner1@reddit
I believe there is, but there isn't really the need for one. it was typically a non machined casting for the upper, so you'd have throw some kind of mount on there, and in a firefight where you could point shoot you get one target fast enough
bobbobersin@reddit
Thats fair
Folly-One17@reddit
I stay looking for one of those wire stock assemblies.
R_FN_S1R1US@reddit
When I got to 1st Cav my psg told me that when he showed up to the unit his 1sg told him that they’d reverse the Brad through walls spray the room with this then drop ramp and dismount
winchester97guy@reddit
IS THAT AN EXPEDIENT GREASE GUN STOCK FIELD REPAIR?!?!!
Taolan13@reddit
Probably.
IIRC the buffer tube on these things is the same diameter as the butt cap on the grease gub, so it snaps right on.
winchester97guy@reddit
No kidding, that’s awesome. I remember the grease gun was in sparse use into the 90s, sure looks 80s/90s in that pic
justaheatattack@reddit
engineer's always seemed to have grease guns. even in the 2000s.
d_b_cooper@reddit
GREASE GUB
throwtowardaccount@reddit
GREASE GUB
Taolan13@reddit
too funny to fix now :P
AyeBraine@reddit
Apparently early Firing Port Weapons were issued with extending wire stocks similar to M3's.
dragon_sack@reddit
Deploy smoke, but inside the vehicle
CrucifixAbortion@reddit
Dutch oven.
ikilledyourfriend@reddit
Cook me mommy
Sneekibreeki47@reddit
Hahaha
mynameisrichard0@reddit
Whats with the hairs on the end of the gun? Do you screw the whole gun into something?
popsmokeimout@reddit
https://images.guns.com/wordpress/2017/10/M231-FPW-Firing-Port-Weapon-1.jpg
mynameisrichard0@reddit
Lolol holy shit son. I was joking. Thats cool.
RamTank@reddit
Firing Port Weapon. Not one picture of them used in a firing port. Yeah that sounds about right for these things.
popsmokeimout@reddit
https://images.guns.com/wordpress/2017/10/M231-FPW-Firing-Port-Weapon-1.jpg
CallsignPreacherOne@reddit
I remember reading somewhere that it had a much higher fire rate than any of the m16 variants. Odd how they still ran 30 round mags. I’m assuming it’s because they were more reliable than drums?
throwtowardaccount@reddit
At no point were mags greater than 30 capacity available to be issued to line troops. During that era, Beta C magazines existed but I think they had reliability issues or otherwise weren't worth the hassle.
Radar1980@reddit
Iirc it was more a “gtfo my Bradley” kind of thing.
Radar1980@reddit
It looks like in the second pic there’s an almost M3-esque wire stock. A field mod?
SuperThiccBoi2002@reddit
Wire stock ar? 🤢🤮
RaDeus@reddit
You are supposed to attach them to the firing-port, so they didn't come with stocks originally.
Watch the FW video about them, it's good I promise 👍
BrooklynTony198@reddit
Iirc it was the other way around, they originally came with stocks so troops could theoretically use them in an emergency (idk what kind of emergency) but were deemed so uncontrollable that the army removed them so a dumb PFC doesnt try to fire one from the shoulder and frag a buddy because he wasn't anticipating the recoil.
I mean, with a 30 round mag and a cyclic rate of 1200rpm, you get maybe 1.5 seconds of trigger time before you're empty. I don't even know what they were thinking when they even decided on such a high ROF, because trying to walk your rounds on target within a second while peering out of the viewport on a Bradley sounds like an exercise in futility.
HamburgSloz@reddit
If I remember correctly it’s pretty far off of the original design. Open-bolt, full auto only, port gun. It was never really meant to be used as a shoulder fired weapon
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