What determines whether or not you commonly use the full name of a politician?
Posted by monhst@reddit | AskAnAmerican | View on Reddit | 224 comments
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DeanMoriartywaswrong@reddit
Former political journalist (20+ years) here. Just wanted to add that one key factor is that, at least among those elected to office, politicians' media relations staff communicate exactly how their bosses want to be called. We had a U.S. senator whose office put out a press release saying he was no longer to be "Robert," but "Bob" on first reference. And you can bet any "offending" reporters and their editors got bawled out if they didn't call him Bob, out of professional courtesy. Not to overstate the role of the media, but once they get the hang of "Joe" instead of "Joseph," etc., it tends to influence how everyone else name-checks a politician.
RedStatePurpleGuy@reddit
Except for The New York Times, which stubbornly insists on first name, middle initial, last name. Hence, Joseph R. Biden Jr. and Donald J. Trump.
GreenBeanTM@reddit
Vibes đ
NCC1701-Enterprise@reddit
The politician sets the tone, usually early on in their career, with how they ask to be referred to. Bill Clinton made quite a stir at the time because he requested to be sworn in as Bill Clinton and not William Jefferson Clinton. Ultimately they did use his full legal name.
JackYoMeme@reddit
Your parents pick your name at birth, then you typically get called something more casual like joe or joey. Then later, when you learn to talk, you tell other people your name.
Brilliant_Towel2727@reddit
It's mainly marketing by the politicians and their campaigns. Jimmy Carter was the first president to use a nickname rather than his full legal name across his campaign, which made him seem down to Earth and approachable in contrast to the stiff and dour Nixon. Before that, Eisenhower had use the slogan 'I like Ike," which conveniently rhymes. In other cases, politicians will use a version of their name that makes them stand out, ie Kamala is a more distinct name in the United States than Harris, and George W. Bush used just the initial W. in some of his campaign materials to make himself stand out from his father. And many politicians probably just use the version of the name they commonly go by socially - Ron DeSantis, Joe Biden, Bill Clinton, Ted Kennedy, etc.
Ok_Investigator_6494@reddit
And don't forget Jeb! who probably wanted to distance himself a bit from his brother W and so didn't use the last name as much in his branding.
Robossassin@reddit
Hilary also had to distance from the name Clinton/distinguish herself from her husband.
Derwin0@reddit
Eisenhower used his nickname âIkeâ in his campaign, ie. âI Like Ikeâ.
Accomplished-Park480@reddit
The same way individuals describe themselves. You have the name that appears on your birth certificate and DL etc but you go by the way the person describes themselves. So to apply this to some of your examples, I don't think I ever heard Joe Biden refer to himself as Joseph outside his inauguration and similarly with Trump, I don't think he refers to himself as Don.
doloreschiller@reddit
As an Elizabeth who prefers and introduces herself as Elizabeth, it's so obnoxious to me when people then immediately call me Liz.
quikdogs@reddit
Used to know an Elizabeth who never once spelled my name right despite many reminders. She hated Liz. So since she couldnât get my name right, and since Liz was off the books, I took to calling her Lizard. Suddenly she figured out somewhat magically how to spell my name.
doloreschiller@reddit
She totally deserved that
jayne-eerie@reddit
Co-signed. My nickname (as in what my family calls me) is Beth and I donât mind that if asked, but I bristle at Liz.
doloreschiller@reddit
Yeah! Only my parents have ever called me Beth!
jayne-eerie@reddit
Itâs really a shame Liz is the default. I know Beth is kind of a â70s name but it sounds so much prettier.
MrQuizzles@reddit
Bob Dole is Bob Dole. Bob Dole doesn't even have pronouns. Bob Dole is always Bob Dole.
shelwood46@reddit
There is definitely a general tendency if someone has a low-syllable name to do the full name always.
everydaywinner2@reddit
Ditto AlGore.
reno2mahesendejo@reddit
To be non-political about it, sometimes its the opposite.
Robert DeNiro for instance, supposedly goes by Bob/Bobby, which is hard for me to wrap my head around.
It kind of does have to do with marketing and the way the name rolls off the tongue. Sometimes its just the way the media likes to say their names. President Obama, for instance, was pretty much never called just Barack, but was often Obama. Part of this is probably how foreign Barack sounds (he was called Barry some, though from what I remember that was mostly by critics), whereas Obama can kind of be glossed over (almost Irish)
AlienDelarge@reddit
For the Robert DeNiro example and other actors, there may be some other factors impacting what name they go by. They may want a screen name separate from their name to help maintain some level of privacy. Often though when they join the actors guild, they have to chose a unique name(somebody else can hopefully fill in specific details here) and that unique name isn't necessarily what they like to go by privately but is part of their professional brand.
reno2mahesendejo@reddit
There's a couple of examples of SAG forcing a name change for a member because another member had that name.
Katy Perry's real name is Kate Hudson, and initially she was known by that name (releasing a gospel album under her birth name). She changed it to Perry because she felt she wasnt getting traction with her real name and to avoid confusion with the other actress.
Michael Keatons real name is Douglas, he was made to use a different name due to Michael Douglas already being established. Though, in Douglas' case, his father's real name was Danielovitch, he changed it due to...being too Jewish/Russian at the time.
Diane Keatons real name is Hall (Woody Allen based the film on his once-girlfriend...Di-Annie Hall), but there was already an Annie Hall registered with Sag, so she went by Keaton
doc_skinner@reddit
Also a lot of actors with middle initials (or even names) only use that to make their screen name unique.
Michael Fox is always "Michael J. Fox" (so much so that just writing "Michael Fox" seems weird as hell).
messick@reddit
Harrison Ford is actually Harrison J Ford for SAG reasons, but the J doesn't stand for anything as he has no middle name. The J is because an existing Harrison Ford joined back in the silent era.
Futurama co-creator David X. Cohen added not just the initial X but the period afterwards to join the WGA, his middle name is Samuel but he thought the X sounded cooler. He thought people might think his name was David TIMES Cohen if it was just an X, so hence the period. I mean, sure, but come on who would think that?
jayne-eerie@reddit
Plus middle initials are usually written with the period anyhow. Though I appreciate Cohenâs concern about not wanting his name to be read as an Ed Sheeran album title.
seaburno@reddit
Except his middle initial is A, not J. He changed it so he would not be referred to as âMichael, a Foxâ
Tejanisima@reddit
Was wondering if anybody else knew that little tidbit!
EffectiveCycle@reddit
Emma Stone is a more recent one, her given first name is Emily
Horzzo@reddit
Married actors can also cloud the names. Susan Tomalin for example. She divorced her college sweetheart but kept his surname as her career was already taking off. Susan Sarandon.
LadyFoxfire@reddit
Robert DeNiro is what heâs credited as in his movies, so thatâs what his fans know him as. His friends call him Bobby.
DontReportMe7565@reddit
He may go by Bob/Bobby but I've never seen a movie ad saying starring Bob DeNiro.
reno2mahesendejo@reddit
As in he goes by Bob in his personal life. As the other person pointed out, sometimes its to segregate their personal and professional image
"Say, aren't you Robert DeNiro?"
"Nope, names Bob"
nothingbuthobbies@reddit
Obama went by Barry in his personal life, up until he was about half way through college. I think his family (i.e. the family that knew him since he was a child, so probably not Michelle) still calls him that.
Actors are an interesting case, because sometimes they'll have to adopt a stage name due to SAG rules. Emma Stone, for example, has always gone by Emily, but there was already an Emily Stone in SAG so she changed it to Emma. Though I doubt that's exactly the case with Robert DeNiro.
Final-Elderberry9162@reddit
In DeNiroâs case, his father (the abstract expressionist painter) is also Robert DeNiro, so itâs possible he was referred to as Bob or Bobby for reasons of clarity - though he mostly lived with his mother when he was growing up.
maple-belle@reddit
That's possible, but it was also just very standard for "Robert" to become "Bobby" when he was growing up, no need for a reason.
messick@reddit
> he was called Barry some, though from what I remember that was mostly by critics
President Obama went by "Barry" up until some point in college when (like a lot of kids) he decided he wanted to connect to his roots and reverted back to his "real" first name.
But yeah, for the critics leading up to his election "Barry" was used to show he was unserious and transition showed he was somehow both too ashamed and too proud of his Kenyan heritage.
You got to remember, they didn't have a lot to go on with Obama, and being forced to really reach for negative headlines didn't start with the tan suit.
is_there_crack_in_it@reddit
I heard Chazz palminteri say once that the public calls him Robert, people acting like they know him call him Bobby, and his actual friends call him bob
Top_File_8547@reddit
His wife calls him Barry at least some of the time. I heard Michelle do that in an interview.
drsfmd@reddit
Until he got started in politics, he called himself "Barry". That's what his college friends knew him as.
MyUsername2459@reddit
While he may go by Bob in his private life, he's professionally billed as Robert, which strongly influenced how the media and public refer to him.
Bamboozle_@reddit
Barack is also just a mouthful and easy to verbally trip over where as Obama rolls off the tongue.
botulizard@reddit
It seems like "Don" is reserved for Don Jr.
monhst@reddit (OP)
That's true for the people you mentioned, and that's what I used to assume, but it seems that Kamala Harris always campaigned as Harris, and hardly anybody seems to be calling her that. And it doesn't even seem like "Harris" is a particularly common surname in high-profile American politics, so it's probably not for avoiding confusion either.
mjg13X@reddit
Her campaign printed signs that just said Kamala, and her Twitter rapid response page was called Kamala HQ.
monhst@reddit (OP)
That's true. Most campaign materials seem to be "Harris for president" and "Harris Walz" kind of slogans, though.
I just learned that Kamala is a rather exotic name in the US. I thought it was a common name among African Americans. That answers my question about her
Fun_Push7168@reddit
Prior to heavy television exposure nicknames were a lot more popular. Even in campaign material. I'm guessing as a way to foster a feeling of connection.
Ike, Teddy, Honest Abe etc.
fasterthanfood@reddit
Roosevelt actually hated the nickname âTeddy.â People kept calling him it though, and he relented when a someone created a stuffed bear and asked his permission to call it a âteddy bearâ in his honor.
(Roosevelt, a passionate hunter, had gotten lots of positive press coverage for refusing to shoot a bear that had been tied to a tree for him to kill.)
_WillCAD_@reddit
Yeah, but using the last names is so common in political literature and signage in the US that it's not unusual at all. Harris-Walz is the common way to express the ticket. As was Biden-Harris.
Obama-Biden was the norm for their first campaign, but I saw a lot more stuff that just said Obama in the second campaign. Ditto for Bush-Cheney.
There are exceptions, of course. Bill Clinton's campaign used Clinton-Gore, but Hillary's often used her first name for its instant recognition and often left her running mate off; I can't even remember who it was. Trump mostly used his own name in campaign lit and usually left Pence and Vance off; not always, there is plenty of lit saying Trump-Pence and Trump-Vance, but it's hugely overshadowed by stuff that just says Trump.
jerkenmcgerk@reddit
Hilary Clinton is a very weird use-case. After marrying William Jefferson Clinton, she continued using only Rodham as her professional name. When William Clinton ran for Arkansas governor, she started preferring being addressed as Hillary Rodham Clinton because a seemingly unattached gubernatorial candidate who had State Troopers bringing women to Clinton wasn't going well in the press. Around the time of the Lewinsky affair, she dropped the Rodham altogether By the time she ran for Senate, she was know only as Hillary Clinton, which at least appears to me to be brand marketing of different political assessments she made throughout her career. Most likely due to political expediency.
mjg13X@reddit
Tim Kaine. I remember seeing my neighbor's Clinton-Kaine bumper sticker and thinking how rare it was to see her surname on her campaign materials.
_WillCAD_@reddit
Yeah, I guess if she'd won I might remember the guy's name. Well, I'd remember it as well as I remember all the other VPs in my lifetime, which is... um, not great, except for Bush and Biden because they went on to become president afterward, Harris because she's recent, Pence because he almost got hung, and Vance because he's current. Among other reasons.
mjg13X@reddit
Haha fair enough. I thought the John Mulaney SNL sketch about Kaine and Walz was hilarious.
NormanQuacks345@reddit
President/vice president join campaign materials usually will include both persons last names, I couldnât tell you why but thatâs the tradition. Trumpâs signs have said âTrump/Penceâ and âTrump/Vanceâ.
dcgrey@reddit
It isnât a common name among African Americans, and in Harrisâs case, its origin is Sanskrit.
mjg13X@reddit
Fair enough.
anonanon5320@reddit
Kamala isnât an American name, Harris is. Some areas she leaned more heavily on the Harris name and others the Kamala name. She paid a lot of money for people to tell her to do that. Obviously it wasnât money well spent. She should have instead actually campaigned instead.
monhst@reddit (OP)
Thanks, I didn't know that Kamala isn't an American name
Utah_powder_king@reddit
you were smarter before you read that, there is no such distinction as names that are, or are not, American.
What you read was either racist or a typo.
anonanon5320@reddit
Youâve never worked on a campaign.
Utah_powder_king@reddit
wrong, but good guess.
monhst@reddit (OP)
I assume they meant that it's uncommon and is seen as exotic
anonanon5320@reddit
Thatâs exactly it.
Utah_powder_king@reddit
as an American and a native English speaker I took an entirely different meaning from that comment.
PurpleUnicornLegend@reddit
While I understand what you are saying, and I agree a statement like that can definitely come from a racist place, I do think that there are names that are way more popular amongst Americans rather than other nationalities.
Even comparing common white American names vs. common white British names, there is a difference. Like how many British guys have you heard with the name âBrady?â
And then you also have names that are actually distinctly American coming from the African American community, such as âQuantaviusâ or âJavion.â
In conclusion, I agree with you that it can be racist and dangerous to say that certain names arenât American, as it creates an âus vs. themâ environment, which is bad in a country described as a melting pot. On the other hand, there are names that are in fact way more popular amongst Americans and names that were created by certain communities in America.
Utah_powder_king@reddit
saying a name is common, or uncommon, in the US, or is American in origin, is wholly unrelated to saying it "isn't American" and I think you know it.
highspeed_steel@reddit
I mean I'm not American and from a practical, rather than principled stand point, the intent of that comment was clear enough.
Accomplished-Park480@reddit
It's an Indian name.
Frzzalor@reddit
"isn't an American name" is doin a lot of work in this sentence
FivebyFive@reddit
It was only ever Harris when like pundits and news anchors were talking about Biden/Harris, or Harris/Waltz.Â
Otherwise it always Kamala Harris. Like on all her campaign materials.
I don't think that comparison worksÂ
LifeApprehensive2818@reddit
At least in years I can remember, campaign signage almost always uses last names alone ("Trump/Vance" or "Harris/Walsh"). This is often different from the politician's preferred or "brand" name.
That said, I think there was a very short pause before Harris started using her first name widely.  My wild guess: stereotypical Americans are uncomfortable with uncommon names, and there may have been a delay to see if "Kamala" would be recognized or ridiculed.
username6789321@reddit
I wonder whether they stuck with that approach for candidates like Bush Jnr and Hilary Clinton, where the surname was already associated with a previous president. Particularly for Hilary, given that Bill's legacy includes the Lewinsky scandal.
Obviously anyone not living under a rock would be aware that it wasn't the previous presidents attempting another term so maybe it didn't matter, I'm just curious whether they avoided using the surname to minimise the connection between the previous president and the new candidate.
LifeApprehensive2818@reddit
Bush definitely used his family name on its own. His family was at the time highly visible and respected in US politics, so it actually helped him to blend in with his relatives.
Clinton used her last name extensively, although she did use "Hilary" when she wanted to appear more approachable.
She'd spent two decades building her own very robust brand separate from her husband's reputation. He, in the other hand, had largely faded into the background. By the time the election hit, I think "Clinton" meant "Hilary" to most Americans, not "Bill".
Fun_Push7168@reddit
Somewhat. Though in regular speech or text discussion it was nearly always Hilary. I think people were generally conscious of needing the distinction unless it was directly related to the current election, and even then it was sometimes habitual.
_WillCAD_@reddit
Unfortunately, Kamala also has two common pronunciations (KAH-muh-luh or kuh-MAH-luh), so Harris' campaign had to deal with that issue. Not to mention that her opposition often mispronounced it on purpose in a show of disrespect. Hell, a lot of people pronounced it Camilla.
WhatABeautifulMess@reddit
When she was a Senator there was at least one other with surnname Harris in Congress and that's only 535 people. As others have mentioned Kamala is not a common name here so it's much more distinctive to than Harris or than Donald, Joseph, Ronald etc. Honestly I think I knew of more people named Barrack in 2007 than I knew of Kamalas in 2024. The only other Kamala I know of is it's Ms Marvel's name and that's a fictional character.
myownfan19@reddit
The same for Trump, many signs just say Trump. It is not uncommon to just use the last name for things like that, unless there are two candidates for the same office with the same last name the point gets across. With the President and Vice President running together putting two last names on a sign is easier than putting two first and last names on a sign.
Lavender_r_dragon@reddit
Itâs usual for the campaign to use last names.
Accomplished-Park480@reddit
I don't think Harris is a common name in American politics. I can't think of another one beyond her. From my memory of her campaign, she seemed to alternate between Harris and Kamala without a strong preference for either.
theguineapigssong@reddit
This is correct. Whatever the politician uses in their campaign advertising tends to stick.
Prestigious-Fan3122@reddit
There was an older boy in my 7thâ 12th grade school Whose name was, well sounded like "Philip Gaines" (totally made up, but with the same number of syllables and rhythm)
Most people called him "Fig". I have no idea how he got that nickname. But no one ever called him Fig Gaines, and no one ever just called him Philip. It was always Philip Gaines or just Fig. NO exceptions. It was a smallish private school, and so we did have an elective together once or twice. Also, there was one rather isolated classroom where he had a class right after my class ended, so I would be in that little cubbyhole of the hallway with him trying to move to the Next class, and would hear people talking to him.
Forward-Repeat-2507@reddit
So referring to trump (no capitalization on purpose should be okay). Little Donny is no different than sleepy Joe in my opinion. You disrespect other presidents you deserve to be met with similar disrespect.
shelwood46@reddit
At the time, Ronnie was often called that. In fact with politicians, you'll often find that people who usually get called by their last name only for "respect" often get called by a diminutive of their first name by their opponents. Many people say Donnie. Some will pre-empt that by going by a nickname or first name, like Joe or Jimmy Carter, and also to seem more down-to-earth and friendly, like Ike. Some get called that distinguish them from their nepo roots, like W or Quincy. Female politicians in all countries often get called by their first names. Many of them are going by their husbands' names anyway, or choose to go by first, or it's the disrespect thing (see: Maggie Thatcher -- if they didn't ask for it, an -y or -ie is usually an insult, being a bit childish). There's no rule.
LessBalance6122@reddit
I canât answer but the etymologynerd on instagram does a whole break down but the bottom line is some names are more aesthetically appealing as full names verse as last name only
myownfan19@reddit
It's basically whatever the individual prefers or uses / used.
mmlickme@reddit
Same as everyone else lol
jigokubi@reddit
It is, but that in itself is remarkable given how strong people can react to politicians.
You might have people changing the name or spelling out of spite online, but generally speaking, we seem to call even the ones we can't stand by the name they gave us.
AggravatingBobcat574@reddit
The same way you know whether to call your friend John, Johnathan, Johnny, or Jack. You call him what he WANTS to be called.
Mitch_Darklighter@reddit
Respect for that politician. So never if I can help it.
nasadowsk@reddit
The NY Times almost never uses anything but "Mr/Mrs" and last name. They will not say "President u/Nasadowsk", but rather "Mr. Nasadowsk". This has been consistent for decades, AFAIK.
They also printed one of the more hilarious retractions in early July of 1969, concerning an editorial regarding Mr Goddard and his theories of rocketry...
Quicherbichen1@reddit
My blood relatives refer to me by my given name, but no one in my daily life even knows what my given name is. I have used a nickname ever since my early working career where there were 5 women employed by this business I worked for with the same given name, There were only 4 variations of that name, (think of Barbara, Barb, Babs, and Barbie) and each were already used to distinguish one from the others. When I came along, I had to use my initials for distinction. The nickname has stuck for the last 50 years or so. Everyone I associate with, outside of blood relations, call me by my nickname. Except the bank, driver's license, and places where my given name are required.
dotdedo@reddit
Depends on how easy it is for me to say it or what sounds cooler tbh. I don't care.
skaliton@reddit
Honestly it is usually how they refer to themselves/the people around them do.
There are exceptions of course:
Donnie is unworthy of respect
Moscow Bitch McConnel because he is notorious for skipping independence day to grovel in Moscow
Raphael (or Cancun) Cruz because he is so against calling anyone else by their preferred name but whines if you call him by his actual legal name and when Texas had a statewide blackout fled to Cancun then pouted when he was called out on it and claimed he just went to drop his family off
SeparateMongoose192@reddit
For me, it's usually how much I respect them as well as the vibe they give off. For our current "president," I refer to him as "trump," deliberately not capitalizing it because I have absolutely no respect for him as a human being. I think he's a pedophile piece of trash. I usually refer to Biden as Joe Biden because I have some respect for him, and he seems pretty approachable.
basementfrog42@reddit
feels like we are missing a pretty big element here that itâs because kamala and hilary and other influential politicians are women
DarkMagickan@reddit
I don't put much thought into it. I just call them whatever they are most commonly called by the news media.
MarcatBeach@reddit
The person will specify, even celebrities do it. they will issue media guidance on it. The media will still do formal title and name when it is appropriate for the story and context. Like Meghan Markle wants the media to use the Duchess of Sussex. Elton John went through a phase where he wanted Sir Elton.
Howard Stern used to mock the media guidance celebrities would issue on his radio show. because he got the memos. that is when he created his own. King of All Media. to mock some very specific celebrities.
Biden. Joe is what he goes by and has for decades.
bradlap@reddit
Yes, it almost always depends on marketing.
Hillary Clinton used her first name in campaign ads to differentiate herself from her husband. George W. Bush used his last name to lean into his dadâs legacy. Both entirely different strategies. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez calls herself AOC in her campaign because itâs easier to say and remember. Most call her AOC.
Shiny_Mew76@reddit
Generally itâs just how easy or catchy it is to say. Sometimes itâs made clear by the politician themselves. Some stuff catches on and some stuff doesnât. Marketing also plays a part.
âTrumpâ is much more catchy than âDon Trumpâ, while âBidenâ or âJosephâ doesnât feel as catchy as âJoe Bidenâ
BankManager69420@reddit
Thatâs up to the individual politicians. If someone introduced themselves to you as Donald, you would call them Donald not Don. Same goes for public figures.
decdash@reddit
Sometimes it's a term of familiarity/endearment with a politician, sometimes it's for the meme (The Donald), sometimes personal preference (like Ron DeSantis instead of Ronald DeSantis), sometimes it's about differentiating a politician from another well-known politician with the same last name (Hillary/Bill Clinton), sometimes it's fun initials (FDR, JFK, RFK). Sometimes it's just the politician's full name, especially if it's a short name (I only ever hear people call Ted Cruz Ted Cruz). Sometimes it's really just what flows better. It all comes down to either convenience or branding IMO.
Bernie's brand was always about grassroots campaigning and engaging with the youth vote, so the informality of calling him "Bernie" just fit better than calling him Sanders, which I have almost never heard anyone do. Kamala Harris also played up that level of familiarity, but more in the "fun aunt" way, plus the "Momala" thing that she brought up from time to time.
SufficientEmu4971@reddit
Most of the time it's the politician's preference.Â
It's the name they campaign under (Jeb Bush's campaign logo just said Jeb! including the exclamation point), the name that appears on the ballot as (Ron DeSantis chose to be listed as Ron), and the way their staff refer to them in media releases.Â
Dalton387@reddit
Itâs usually perception. Sometimes by the media and sometimes by people. It catches on. Whether itâs respectful or not.
I think itâs just what sounds right based on how theyâre set up and how you feel about them.
Significant_Bid2142@reddit
It's not just about politicians. People can decide what name they go by. I have a friend whose name is David but he always goes by Dave, another is David and likes David, that's it.
Some William-people like Will, others like Bill, and some just William.
visitor987@reddit
The name the use during their campaign is the most common reason.
Interesting-Long-534@reddit
All Republicans should be referred to by the name on their birth certificate. They have said people shouldn't go by other names. If that is what they want for other people, they should lead by example.
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Grouchy_Concept8572@reddit
Mostly how easy it is to say. The more syllables the more likely it gets just the last name.
Also the more common the name, the more likely it gets first and last.
Pitiful_Bunch_2290@reddit
I feel like most, at least around here, are referred to by their last name alone. Rarely with "president" or "senator" or whatever in front of it.
Current_Poster@reddit
Generally:
- With names, what the person uses themselves. For instance, Jimmy Carter called himself "Jimmy Carter", so nobody would then call him James Carter.
-With abbreviations, that used to be a press thing (back when newspapers were the pre-eminent way to get news), and that came down to length. "Franklin D. Roosevelt" or "John F Kennedy" got shortened to FDR or JFK for that reason.
police-ical@reddit
LBJ was pretty transparent that his three-letter initial was intentionally branding himself as akin to FDR.
jacobin17@reddit
He was obsessed with his initials to the extent that his whole family had the same initials. His wife went by Lady Bird Johnson, his daughters were Lynda Bird Johnson and Luci Baines Johnson. He even called his dog Little Beagle Johnson.
PureMitten@reddit
I knew about Lady Bird Johnson and it never clicked for me that they had the same initials. That's a bizarre thing to be that into. LBJ seems like he was a very weird dude to know.
Tejanisima@reddit
Saw an interesting appraisal on Antiques Roadshow brought in by the lawyer who had to represent Carter's case in some particular state fighting to get him listed on the ballot as "Jimmy Carter" and not "James Earl Carter." The stated reasons include the fact that he'd done all his professional/political work as Jimmy and there was real concern that people wouldn't recognize the name on the ballot if it were written the other way. Not included in the written rationale was that it was less than a decade after the assassination of MLK Jr. by James Earl Ray, and they didn't need those kinds of mental associations with their white, Southern candidate.
monhst@reddit (OP)
Oh, I forgot to ask about abbreviations. Thanks a lot!
cruzweb@reddit
There's also practical reasons for it where states can try to play games with names. For example, everyone knew Jimmy Carter as Jimmy Carter. But some states tried to petition to have his full legal name on the ballot. His full legal name is James Earl Carter, and these states thought they could cost him votes since that sounds close to James Earl Ray, the guy who assassinated MLK.
doc_skinner@reddit
Barack HUSSEIN Obama enters the chat.
messick@reddit
Honestly, after the 2004 DNC Convention when he started getting buzz I figured the HUSSEIN would be enough to tank his future chances with the seemingly room temperate IQ of the general public.
Outside_Narwhal3784@reddit
Oh thatâs interesting! I always wondered about the initials.
hellogoawaynow@reddit
I always wondered why male presidential candidates get called by their lasts names (Obama, Biden, Trump), but female presidential candidates get called by their first names (Hillary, Kamala).
I mean I know the answer is sexism but Iâve always thought itâs weird.
toomanyracistshere@reddit
It's a combination of sexism and of women's names tending to be more unique. You're never going to see "Vote for John" on a bumper sticker, but if it says Hillary or Kamala (or Bernie, for that matter) people will know who's being referred to.
crazycatlady331@reddit
In the case of Hillary Clinton, she needed to use her first name to distinguish herself from her husband.
As for Kamala Harris, not sure. In her book (written in 2018/9) in the first chapter, she explicitly says how to pronounce her first name (I was getting it wrong until reading the book). She cited comma like the punctuation mark.
I do know that Harris a much more common last name than Kamala is a first name.
The_Bjorn_Ultimatum@reddit
The feel of it.
taranathesmurf@reddit
I was going to say the mouth feel or rhythm of the syllables.
monhst@reddit (OP)
I'd appreciate it if anyone could expand on this. It's not intuitive for me what makes "Ron Reagan" different from "Ron DeSantis" in this context (if anything, I think saying Ron Reagan is more fun lol)
toomanyracistshere@reddit
Ronald Reagan's son is generally referred to as Ron Reagan, just like Donald Trump jr is usually called Don. Probably both do it to differentiate themselves from their fathers somewhat.
Fun_Push7168@reddit
Syllable count and rhythm.
Not a hard rule but it helps to avoid the same number of syllables first and last.
The exceptions pretty much come from English being a stress timed language rather than syllable timed. We stretch or shorten syllables to sort of fit into pre timed chunks.
So with Ronald Reagan, Ron Reagan begs for you to extend some part of it to fit into a standard timing chunk rhythm. The only natural part to do that is 'raay' and it comes out sounding unnatural. You might also shorten the syllables so Ron Reagan is said with the same stress as Joe Biden but ray is a long or typically stressed syllable so it sounds a tad off putting it in that rhythm compared to bi.
What makes his more awkward is having both start with R so it sounds better with a stress between to break apart the Rs. When they both start with the same letter the stress break becomes more important than mismatching syllable counts
For example Ron Reynolds or Rob Reynolds doesn't sound as good as Ronald Reynolds or Ryan Reynolds or Robert Reynolds but Burt Reynolds sounds fine.
It's all kind of subjective but it does somewhat drive the tendencies.
crazycatlady331@reddit
It is also a matter of how you were raised.
My sister and I have names that could be easily shortened (and often are) but that was NEVER allowed growing up. As adults, we both go by our legal first names. The only person who ever referred to me as a nickname was my childhood bestie.
monhst@reddit (OP)
Thanks, thus is really helpful!
ritchie70@reddit
If someone said, "Ron Reagan" I'd think of the son, not the father, because the son does go by Ron Reagan.
Ronald Reagan just was a more formal person from a more formal time. It's not something complicated.
I generally go by a name that's a shortened version of my actual first name (much like Ron vs Ronald) because the full name feels too formal for me - I'm a pretty casual person.
But I sign my name as "Ronald W. Reagan" not "Ron Reagan". (Well, not as either, but it was a convenient example.)
myownfan19@reddit
Reagan went by Ronnie somewhat, but he never normalized it in formal settings.
I have my given name and I have a nickname derived from it. This is because other people in my family have the same given name and I was given a nickname as a baby to differentiate us. t I can switch back and forth very seamlessly and so can my friends and family. I only sign with my actual given name. I am starting a new job soon I should probably pick one and stick to it in that setting, but whatever.
Born_Sandwich176@reddit
My name is quite simple, easy to spell and easy to say - one-syllable first name and two-syllable last name.
One day I walked into a classroom with a bunch of people and someone said my name out loud in a sing-songy way. I asked what was up and she said, "I don't know, something about your name just sounds good."
After that, everyone said my name in that same sing-songy way.
I had never thought of my name as anything other than my label but after that I realized that names do have a feel and saying them certain ways does sound more correct.
Raving_Lunatic69@reddit
Nothing other than your personal preference. You can call them Shitbird McDoodyface if you like. It's the American way.
monhst@reddit (OP)
Well that's not exactly what I'm asking. Your personal preference doesn't determine the wiki page's title
toomanyracistshere@reddit
It's how they're generally known. The Wikipedia page's title being "Joe Biden" rather than "Joseph Biden" is no different than a Wikipedia page being titled "Eminem" instead of "Marshall Mathers," "Genghis Khan" instead of "Temujin," "Francis" instead of "Jorge Bergoglio" or "George VI" instead of "Albert Frederick Arthur George."
Raving_Lunatic69@reddit
Ah. Well, that would just be the way they prefer to style/market themselves. Their personal preference, if you will.
monhst@reddit (OP)
But that also doesn't work when you consider kamala Harris. It really is confusing
MaggieMae68@reddit
Sure it does.
Kamala Harris took advantage of the fact that she has a unique (in America) first name that a lot of Americans don't (or didn't) know how to pronounce.
There was a whole part of her campaign revolving around "comma-la!" I have a tshirt with a large stylized comma on it: ,-la! And I think at the DNC her young nieces came out on the stage and led a chant of "comma" "la" from the crowd.
She marketed herself as Kamala.
Sufficient_Cod1948@reddit
What do you find confusing about that? It's her name.
Short-Step-5394@reddit
Your confusion confuses me! What do you think her page should be called?
monhst@reddit (OP)
I think I understand the principle now. She's Kamala because it's an exotic sounding foreign name, and generally, politicians are referred by the name they themselves prefer
getit2getherminnelli@reddit
Whether one is referred to by their full first name or a nickname is a different matter than whether one is referred to by their first or last name. Your conflation of these two things is making this whole conversation very confusing.
Harris was often called by her first name because it was distinctive/unusual, which is not the same as exotic.
paintedcrows@reddit
How so? That's her name, and that's what she goes by. Most campaign ads use only the last name, and she did have ads that used her first name instead- but she's not Madonna, she has a first and last name.
We usually refer to Joe Biden as Biden, Donald Trump as Trump, and Barack Obama as Obama. For most of us, we're not friends with these people, and calling them by their first name would be too familiar. We can refer to them by their full name, but that's not necessary most of the time because we know who's being referred to.
News outlets almost always use the full name for clarity, but we typically only use the full name if it's not the person you'd expect. I might specify "Kamala Harris" because Harris is a common enough name that we have local officials by the same name, but Biden and Trump are unique enough that you know which members of those families I'm referring to.
Your question though was why it's Joe and not Joseph, but not Don instead of Donald, and the answer really is just that those are the names they prefer, so that's what we call them. It's rude to do otherwise.
jebuswashere@reddit
It really isn't confusing, people are generally referred to by the name that's their personal preference. There isn't any rule or logic beyond that, you're just overthinking.
Adjective-Noun123456@reddit
When you're a public figure it does.
Joe Biden markets himself as a Joe Biden, Donald Trump markets himself as Donald Trump, and Prince marketed himself as a Prince.
That's why their wikipages are Joe Biden, Donald Trump, and Prince as opposed to Joseph Biden, Don Trump, and Prince Rogers Nelson. The latter isn't how people know them.
myownfan19@reddit
Personal preference guides how they present themselves to the public which in turn drives how the wikipedia page is made. But as we all know wikipedia can ge altered, but in general for high profile topics the edits converge to a norm which is often pretty close to facts.
darwinsidiotcousin@reddit
The wiki page says her name is Kamala Harris idk how you're confused on this one lol
monhst@reddit (OP)
I mean that biden's page is titled "Joe Biden". Of course the wiki page for Harris doesn't omit her name lol.
Baroque_Hologram@reddit
Because Joe Biden likes to be called Joe. Itâs his personal preference.
NotYourScratchMonkey@reddit
I used to have a theory that Republicans generally went by full names and Democrats used to go by nick names, but it doesn't hold up:
Aaarrrgghh1@reddit
I think itâs the name they choose to go by. I mean deblasio wasnât even Italian his name but a warren wilhelm
JD Vance we all know that one.
ritchie70@reddit
Well, DeBlasio was his mom's maiden name. He was just rejecting his dad in making that change.
Aaarrrgghh1@reddit
Sure nothing like changing your name to help run for office.
RecipeResponsible460@reddit
Most people just call politicians by how they introduce themselves. Americans are reasonably informal like that.
the_urban_juror@reddit
I know several informal people who suddenly got very formal when talking about Barrack HUSSEIN Obama.
Altruistic_Spring883@reddit
A lot of it is marketing politicians introduce themselves a certain way on purpose. A more interesting question I've had is why women in politics often are not often referred to by their last name. Hillary, Kamala, AOC, Elizabeth Warren, Sarah Palin... I feel like its either a full name or first name. It makes a little more sense for Hillary to differentiate from her husband but not sure why for the rest.
Dangerous-Safe-4336@reddit
Dianne Feinstens's bumper stickers just said "Dianne." Bernie Sanders does the same.
crazycatlady331@reddit
A few months ago, I went to an event where one of the speakers (a fellow member of congress) was talking about AOC. This congress member (who shall remain nameless for the purpose of this post) simply referred to her as "Alex".
I understand AOC went by Sandy in HS. But I've never heard her referred to her as Alex until then.
jackfaire@reddit
For me it's which name is more clear. George Bush for example. If I said "George" it wasn't as unique in my circles as Bush was.
Harris is a pretty common name but could still be potentially understood but Kamala is unique enough it's clear whom I'm speaking of.
Alexthegreat47@reddit
DrMindbendersMonocle@reddit
Could be talking about his father
SophisticPenguin@reddit
That's H. Dubya
-Boston-Terrier-@reddit
He meant u/jackfaire could have been talking about his father but u/Alexthegreat47 assumed Dubya.
âBushâ probably wasnât the best example here lol
Gullible-Apricot3379@reddit
Actually, Bush is a great example for this reason. You have to have ways to distinguish people and that can factor in.
-Boston-Terrier-@reddit
Right but Iâm responding to someone saying âGeorgeâ doesnât narrow down which president theyâre referring to so they use âBushâ.
SophisticPenguin@reddit
Ah, yeah that makes sense
round_a_squared@reddit
Which is why the distinction was needed, and eventually the distinction became a nickname unto itself. Nobody called Bush Sr "HW" before Junior became Dubya
Top_File_8547@reddit
His nickname in the service was George Herbert Walker Bush. An affectionate reference to his privileged background but he was accepted by the guys.
KingDarius89@reddit
I recall one of my history professors repeatedly correcting himself when he referred to the bushes as senior and junior because those weren't actually their names, heh. It just helped to get across which one he was referring to.
-Boston-Terrier-@reddit
Itâs wild that for all the examples you could have used you went for the recent presidential surname where there was two đ
Alexthegreat47@reddit
George⌠Bush? âŚOhhh, you must mean Dubya!
TellThemISaidHi@reddit
Donald Trump refers to himself as Donald.
Joseph Biden refers to himself as Joe. In some of his stories, he even says "Joey", but that's too familiar.
Ronald Reagan was known for being formal. (There's a story of him refusing to walk in the Rose Garden with his suit jacket over his shoulder like JFK did for a picture because he thought it wasn't proper.) Meanwhile, Ronald DeSantis just goes by Ron.
Elizabeth Cheney and Elizabeth Warren both go by 'Liz'. (I hear Cheney referred to only as Liz. For Warren, it seems to depend on the situation.)
Jeb Bush isn't named Jeb or Jebediah. His name is John Ellis Bush, initials: JEB.
In Texas, Robert O'Rourke (Irish) goes by the nickname Beto to appeal to his base, while Rafael Cruz (Hispanic) goes by Ted to appeal to his base.
"It's a big club. And you ain't in it." - George Carlin
Dangerous-Safe-4336@reddit
Apparently O'Rourke grew up with that nickname because his friends and neighbors spoke Spanish.
Decent_Flow140@reddit
Iâm not even sure that Joey is too familiar, I think itâs just that he primarily goes by Joe, so thatâs what people refer to him as. RFK (Sr) commonly went by Bobby and was (and still is) widely referred to as such.Â
Derwin0@reddit
Simple, it goes by what the politician is known as or uses.
Trump uses his full name so people use it, Biden uses a nickname so people use that.
Icy-Whale-2253@reddit
Joe Biden calls himself Joe Biden.
Ron DeSantis calls himself Ron DeSantis.
Kamala Harris has a unique name and a common last name, so she is referred to as Kamala.
Donald Trump doesnât call himself Don. His son is Don.
CK1277@reddit
A lot of it is how they market themselves when they first entered the public eye.
Donald Trump consistently used the name Donald or just his stand alone last name well back to the 80âs. Heâs never branded himself as âDon.â
Joe Biden, on the other hand, branded himself as âJoeâ for decades. A big part of his marketing was being an everyman. He coached little league, he took public transportation, he tucked his kids in at night, etc. Joe is less formal, so it fits into it.
Ronald Reagan used to âRonnieâ selectively to imply there was some sort of personal connection. Nancy often referred to him as Ronnie. Ronald Reagan, Jr. uses Ron.
Hillary was never âClintonâ because she first came into the public eye as First Lady. Presidents are commonly referred to by last name and First Ladies are distinguished by referring to them by first name. You donât hear âTrumpâ and assume anyone is talking about Melania or âObamaâ and assume theyâre referencing Michelle. First names arenât just used for women and theyâre not necessarily dismissive. Bernie Sanders is routinely referred to as just Bernie because it feeds into his narrative that heâs not pretentious. Kamala Harris chose to emphasize Kamala rather than Harris in her campaigning. That wasnât a moniker assigned to her by the press. From a marketing standpoint, there are a lot of Harrises but âKamalaâ is unique and memorable.
JFK and FDR are recognizable by initials because there were a lot of other Kennedyâs and Rooseveltâs in politics. George W Bush was often referred to as just W because when he came on the political scene, âGeorge Bushâ referred to the senior. Itâs a way to distinguish yourself. AOC is different in that regard, but Occasio-Cortez doesnât exactly roll off the tongue.
Accomplished_Mix7827@reddit
It's just based on how they market themselves. Kamala Harris and Hillary Clinton are both commonly referred to by their first names because they marketed themselves that way. Nancy Pelosi, however, is generally never referred to as simply Nancy because she generally publicly goes by Pelosi. Ron DeSantis calls himself Ron, so he's Ron, Ronald Reagan generally favored Ronald, so he's Ronald. Ted Cruz's actual first name is Raphael, but prefers to go by a nickname based on his middle name.
It's similar to how I've worked with men who go by Matthew before, and men who shorten it to Matt. I just take my cue from whatever their preference is.
Blue387@reddit
I refer to him as Donald since his niece days he dislikes his first name
Tinman5278@reddit
This is almost entirely due to how these individuals setup their advertising for the political campaigns. There was a lot of complaining about how Hillary Clinton was being disrespected because people were referring to her as "Hillary" but that was what SHE used for her own campaign signage/slogans.
latin220@reddit
I think it depends on the politician. Some people prefer to be called Bobby or Bob or Beto when their name is Robert like Bobby Kennedy and Beto OâRourke and others like Alexandria Ocasio Cortez like to be called Alex by her friends or AOC by those who follow her similarly to Franklin Delano Roosevelt didnât go by Frank except maybe with his friends, but usually called, âFDRâ in public. Some people like to be called Jonathan and others John like John F Kennedy aka JFK. Depends on the person.
ushouldbe_working@reddit
It's part marketing. For instance, with Kamala Harris, her first name is much more interesting than her last name which is very common. Sometimes it's because there are too many syllables, like with AOC. People like short, easy to remember, names. It's also has to do with how the politician has built their brand around as they came up as a politician. Trump has a very recognizable last name while Donald isn't very remarkable.
TinKnight1@reddit
It's commonly what they go by or how they refer to themselves in their campaigns, but it can also be based on what makes them distinct (and it can be used as a political item).
For example, we've had two George Bush's. The father was always George Bush, & most people in the early 90s just said Bush. When his son ran, and won, you couldn't say George Bush or Bush without being confusing, so most people used W/Dubya (based on his middle initial & Texas accent) or his initials GWB.
With the Clintons, Bill Clinton was the first on the national scene, so he was usually called Clinton (as well as less flattering names by his opponents). When Hillary Clinton ran for Senate & then President, calling her "Clinton" would've been confusing, so everyone used her first name. There's also a bit of gender play there, as going by her first name made her seem less formal & more emphasized that she was female.
And that brings us to Trump & Biden. Trump has always preferred to keep people at a bit of a distance, retaining some formality, so he goes by Donald. Biden, by contrast, will close in for the hug or handshake quickly with a smile, a bit of an old school prototypical politician if you would, so he prefers a little bit less formality which is why he goes by Joe socially.
Kamala Harris ran as Harris, but in conversations, it was always Kamala, which she played up. A lot of detractors would use her first name to reduce the level of seriousness provided to her & to point out that she's a woman, while supporters would commonly use Harris to make the point that she's just as legitimate as any man running for office...but neither rule was hard & fast, & people understood who you meant either way.
Don_Q_Jote@reddit
How about we call 47, DJ from now on. Then we'd have DJ as prez and JD as veep.
TheAzureMage@reddit
It depends on uniqueness. Joe is not quite unique enough by itself. Joe Biden totally works to identify who you are talking about.
That's why we called the first Bush, Bush. The second Bush got called Dubya. Same name, basically, different convention so people would know who you were talking about.
I guess marketing might kind of play a part, but it's whatever name catches, starting with how they describe themselves. If the name is already fairly unique, then that's gonna be a the default. If it's confusing, people will adopt the most convenient way to make it not confusing.
Also, politics, like much of US culture, has become less formal. That probably explains "Ron" being normal for DeSantis, but not for Reagan. Shortened names are more of a thing now.
Ok_Gas5386@reddit
I think a more well known politician will always have a nickname. For example people do call Trump âTeflon Don,â and people from both sides know âBrandonâ refers to Joe Biden.
w3woody@reddit
As far as I'm aware, the name commonly used for politicians is the name those politicians use for themselves. And they usually pick the name (either a nickname or a full name) they believe will help with their own personal branding.
For example, in all of Donald John Trump's official materials he is referred to as "Donald J. Trump." The middle "J" gets dropped because it's a bit of a mouth-full, but he uses "Donald Trump" rather than "Don", "Donny" or the like as part of his personal branding.
On the other hand, in all of Joseph Robinette Biden Jr.'s official materials he is referred to as "Joe Biden." Presumably he picked "Joe Biden" to be a more approachable branding than "Joseph Biden".
You see this with other politicians, at the national, state or local level: they pick a name that represents a 'brand' they would want to be known by in public--either which projects power or which projects approachability.
For myself, my first name is "William." I could shorten it to "Bill" or "Will"--and if I ever ran for office I'd need to pick one and consistently use it for branding purposes.
Remarkable_Inchworm@reddit
Same way you do for any other person - you use the name THEY use.
Bill Clinton was "Bill" Clinton - except in really formal situations, when he was William. Biden is almost certainly listed as "Joseph" on official stuff, but everyone knows him as Joe.
Rafael Cruz goes by "Ted"
Bernard Sanders goes by "Bernie"
Charles Schumer goes by "Chuck"
RevolutionaryRow1208@reddit
It doesn't really have anything to do with being a politician. People have their given names and some people use their given names and some people don't. Donald Trump has never in his life referred to himself as "Don"...he's always gone by his given name. Joe Biden has never gone by his given name of Joseph...he's always gone by Joe.
Everyday people do this as well...my sister's name is Elizabeth...if you called her Elizabeth she's probably not even register that you're talking to her because she goes by Liz. My dad's name was Steven...he always went by Steve. Etc, etc, etc.
TwincessAhsokaAarmau@reddit
Iâm more comfortable with some politicians or respectful politicians, so Iâll say both Barack and Obama but Iâll say Kamala and Jasmine Crockett. Trump just gets his last name and whatever insult I come up with. Harris is a very common black last name, so I could be referring to literally any other black person I know. Kamala isnât a very common name in America, so when I say it they know who I mean.
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PaddyVein@reddit
Trump is a pompous piece of shit who thinks it's some big deal to be named Donald like the fucking Duck.
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_WillCAD_@reddit
Generally - and this holds true with all people, not just celebrities and politicians - one refers to a person by the name they are commonly called by those in their lives.
If your name is Joseph but you go by Joe, that's what everyone will call you if you get famous.
If your name is Donald and never go by Don or Donnie, no one will call you Don or Donnie if you get famous except people who intentionally want to disrespect you.
Theodore Roosevelt went by Teddy his whole life, even as president, and he's a well-beloved figure in American history who is even today mostly known as Teddy Roosevelt. Bully!
Benjamin Franklin went by Ben, and while he is often called Benjamin, plenty of people today, especially those who have an affinity for his life, his work, his inventions, and his writings, think of him as Ben.
There are some exceptions. John F. Kennedy went by Jack, and lots of people called him Jack Kennedy or JFK while he was alive, but that kind of familiarity seemed disrespectful after his murder, so the country reverted to calling him by his full name. JFK is still widely used when referring to him even today, though.
Tone and context are also important. I once watched a gubernatorial debate where the challenger was actually a former governor who'd lost his second election and was trying to unseat the guy who had beaten him last time. He kept calling the sitting governor "Gov" instead of Governor or using the man's name, and the tone he used every time he said it was dripping with disdain. "Gov" is usually not a disrespectful term when used in written form - it's simply the abbreviation for Governor - but when spoken aloud is is considered disrespectfully informal, and this particular candidate put all the contempt he had into the word every time he said it.
KingDarius89@reddit
He actually loathed the name Teddy.
VariationNo7977@reddit
Theodore Roosevelt actually disliked the nickname Teddy
FirstPersonWinner@reddit
He preferred the nickname TR if I remember correctly
monhst@reddit (OP)
Thanks!
The_Menu_Guy@reddit
I just use the last name if that is clear enough about who it refers to. If more clarity is needed, I'll add the first name too.
KingDarius89@reddit
Depends on the person for the most part I think. Though in terms of Harris, it also probably has to do with Kamala being seen as an unusual name and people not wanting to bother spelling it out.
SavannahInChicago@reddit
Itâs an interesting question Iâve never thought of. Marketing could come into play, in going to guess.
khak_attack@reddit
You have the choice of what you go by professionally. I use my nickname, and so did Jimmy Carter and Bob Dole. Now whether the press/public refer to you using your first name vs. your last name, that's a whole different topic we've had quite a few threads about, but I think there's a lot of sexism in it. See Hillary and Kamala vs. Biden and Trump.
tesseractjane@reddit
Political women are often referred to by their first names, some seem to chalk it up to misogyny, others say it is because women who get married often have more attachment to their first names than their last.
Hillary was called Hillary because Clinton had already been sort of used up by her husband. Nancy Pelosi, is called Nancy Pelosi, or Nancy, or Pelosi. Kamala Harris... more difficult to put my finger on why Kamala and not Harris
ritchie70@reddit
In the case of Ms. Harris - and Mrs. Clinton to a lesser extent - I think there's some misogyny in the mix. The Harris campaign signs clearly say "Harris" but she got a lot of references to "Kamala" from both sides of the aisle.
Mrs. Clinton did use "Hillary" on her campaign materials - I assume to distinguish herself from her husband.
I think mostly, though, it's a combination of "how they refer to themself" and "how they don't want to be referred to." Activists and critics on the left may call President Trump "Donnie" but the formal media, other politicians, and the right will call him the name he prefers, Donald Trump.
See also "Brandon" and Joe Biden.
MrPenguun@reddit
I would assume that its based on what name the specific person uses. I have a name that can be shortened, but i prefer the full name and dont go by the shortened version, i also have coworkers with the same name, but they use the shortened version, to the point their email signature has the short version. Some people are named Nicholas, but only ever go by Nick. That person, if they entered politics would likely be referred to as Nick. Meanwhile another person with the name Nicholas may prefer to use Nicholas, that person would likely be referred to by Nicholas also in politics. Trump has used his last name for many things even before presidency, he uses his last name as an identifier for him as an individual, and has marketed himself as "Trump" during his campaign, so many people refer to him solely as "Trump."
AllYallCanCarry@reddit
The politicians with nicknames very likely had those nicknames long before they became politicians.
BubbhaJebus@reddit
It's primarily about what the candidates prefer to be called. President James E. Carter is more commonly known as Jimmy Carter because that's the way he preferred to be known.
Sometimes there's disambiguation. Hillary Clinton marketed herself as Hillary because "Clinton" was already associated with her husband. And he went by Bill rather than William because that's what he preferred to be called.
cheekmo_52@reddit
Generally you call someone the name they use to introduce themselves. For politicians, itâs typically how their campaigns introduce them. President Biden was Joe rather than Joseph throughout his political career. President Trump was a celebrity long before he was a politician, and he always went by Donald rather than Don.
-Boston-Terrier-@reddit
There really arenât any rules here.
A lot of it just comes down to how the person refers to themselves but frequently things just catch on for no real inexplicable reason.
ATLien_3000@reddit
It's no different than what determines what people call you or me or some other guy. People usually use the name you use.
The name a politician runs under is the name people use, by and large - which is usually but not always their given name; sometimes it's a nickname.
Best example? Connie Mack (famous baseball manager; his heirs - Connie Mack III and Connie Mack IV later were in Congress and US Senate). Given name? Cornelius McGillicuddy.
Joe Biden goes by "Joe" and pretty much always has (you can easily find 1970's campaign lit online); therefore, that's what people call him.
Donald Trump goes by Donald, not Don. Therefore, that's what people call him. DeSantis went by Ronald growing up, but started using Ron when he ran for office. Ronald Reagan pretty much always went by Ronald (plenty of movie posters out there billing him as such).
Barack Obama used to go by Barry, but started going by Barack later. Therefore that's what people call him.
You distinguished Kamala Harris, but I've frankly not heard too much distinction as compared to other politicians with people calling her by only her first name vs first/last as in the case of others.
Though sometimes that can come down to branding too - some politicians will only use a first name on signs/literature/bumper stickers on purpose (Kamala Harris used her first name more prominently as part of her branding when she ran for AG, but pivoted later on - last name was the focus for Senate, and then for POTUS it was generally last name only).
Maybe the last name is hard to pronounce. Maybe the politician wants to engender a feeling of informality/closeness. Maybe the first name is more unique/memorable than the last (obviously is the case with her).
Usuf3690@reddit
Because that's what he's (Biden) has always gone by, and as someone that shares his name I can assure you almost no one goes by Joseph, although I do use my full name on forms and documents, no one calls me Joseph.
Astute_Primate@reddit
It would come down to what name they use in public. No one calls Donald Trump "Don." He prefers the full Donald. Bill Clinton never went by William, publicly or privately, so we all just call him Bill. If I were a public figure, I'd never use my full first name. It sets my teeth on edge. In my perfect world, everyone just calls me by the shortened version of my first name. I don't even like honorifics like Mr. or sir (I'm a teacher and I even let my students call me by my first name). Hell, Jesse "The Body" Ventura was governor of Minnesota under the name Jesse Ventura and that's not even his real name. So yeah. It depends on the personal preference of the politician.
taintmaster900@reddit
I call that dude Dolan or Donald Johnald Trump
Apocalyptic0n3@reddit
This comes up every few months here. Americans generally call people by the name they want to be known as, which seems to run counter to how many other cultures operate - especially when it comes to people of power. People frequently shorten their names or go by nicknames here, which is what you see with Biden and Desantis. Other people still prefer to go by their full name, like Trump and Reagan. We respect and follow that.
I personally go by a shortened version of my own name and despise the full version. I've only ever allowed my grandparents to use the full version and will correct everyone else.
Wadsworth_McStumpy@reddit
It starts out the same as everyone else. You call a person the name they choose to call themselves. If James likes to be called Jimmy, then he's Jimmy.
With politicians, though, there can be another layer. If the press tends to call them something, then that becomes the natural way to address them. With Presidents and candidates for President, that's usually their last name by itself. Reporters, for whatever reason, will talk about Trump and Harris, not Donald Trump and Kamala Harris, so people tend to talk about what Trump said, or what Harris said. It was different with Hillary Clinton, because her husband was President, and just saying Clinton would be ambiguous, so the usual way of speaking about her was by first name. That campaign season it was Hillary vs. Trump.
DrMindbendersMonocle@reddit
They use the full name if the last name is too common. Also, most people just called him Biden not his full name
AlabasterPelican@reddit
There is a mix of marketing, respectability, commonness, convention, and just plain how people acquire nicknames. Trump was a brand long before he was a politician, I remember people calling him "Don the Con" before his political life and also like some odd one offs calling him "The Don" but that seemed like marketing that never stuck.
Biden on the other hand feels like it's been fairly evenly split on calling him "Biden" or "Joe Biden" since at least the 08 campaign. Biden is also an affable politician who actually feels like a person, people are going to go with the more personable "Joe" too.
Kamala I think just went with it, whatever name stuck, stuck. She used both Harris and Kamala in marketing. It's also notable the commonality of her names too. Harris is a very common name, whereas Kamala is unique. Having a unique name helps you stand out.
There is also a question of gender here. Women candidates, especially for the executive office have a difficult time finding the sweet spot between being seen as cold, serious, respected, and tough and being seen as being a warm, caring, and nurturing. Going too far in either direction is perilous for the campaign. Using their surname gives optics of the tough executive whereas their given name rounds them out & softens them.
The Clinton's are fairly simple. Bill is usually just "Clinton" because he was the first of the two. Hillary became Hillary or HRC to reduce confusion in speaking. The same commentary about women candidates applies here as well.
Sometime politicians need to stand out and make a name for themselves because their names are just too common, either in politics or in general. There's actually a rather funny coincidence with Speaker Mike Johnson. There are actually two Representative Mike Johnson's in the state of Louisiana. One is the aforementioned Speaker Johnson, the other is Louisiana House Representative Mike Johnson (R-27). Which is why I refer to the speaker using that title, when I wouldn't have made the distinction for Kevin McCarthy or Nancy Pelosi or John Boener. That name thing has apparently caused small issues before at their home offices, apparently they have to do a Slovakia/Slovenia mail swap regularly became of the name thing.
AggressiveKing8314@reddit
Tarot cards
bofh000@reddit
Mainly what determines it is how they introduce themselves.
Lots of people call Trump âDonâ, but since HE speaks if himself as Donald, Don is mostly used dismissively.
Evening-Opposite7587@reddit
Itâs mostly about what the politician and their staff use. That usually catches on pretty well.
monhst@reddit (OP)
With the Kamala misunderstanding resolved, I think I understand now that it mostly really is the politicians' personal preference. Thanks everybody!
machagogo@reddit
The politician thenself.
jreashville@reddit
I think itâs generally how common the name is.
Subvet98@reddit
Keep this on topic. Any deviation will be met with a ban.
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