How is it possible that Australia has a higher freedom index than the US?
Posted by pametnaosoba@reddit | Libertarian | View on Reddit | 489 comments
(Definition of word freedom from Cambridge dictionary: "the condition or right of being able or allowed to do, say, think, etc. whatever you want to, without being controlled or limited")
I don't understand how Australia is ranked higher in freedom than the US.
In Australia, the government doesn't even allow you to own a toy gun. You need a license for absolutely everything. During COVID, Australian citizens were locked in their homes like prisoners...
How is the freedom index actually calculated?
NewSaargent@reddit
As an Aussie I can say that while Australia is a nanny state it isn't as over policed as this sub would like you to think. For a start there aren't masked goons plucking people off the streets on the basis of their ethnicity and police who shoot and kill will be held to account and don't have immunity. If a woman finds she has an unwanted pregnancy she is free to have a termination and that is free on public health and no one is proposing to take that right away.
If your own country has masked goon's patrolling the streets and suppresses a woman's autonomy over her own body it may not be as free as you think. And before you come at me about guns being banned I have 3 legal firearms so they aren't banned. We do however have laws that mean every fuckwit doesn't have a gun so our schools don't have armed guards and active shooter drills
Manuemax@reddit
Abortion is not a right, is murder
Potential-Ice8152@reddit
You have the right to not get an abortion. I should have the right to get a medical procedure that I don’t believe is murder because science. If you don’t like abortion, don’t get one
Manuemax@reddit
Every human being has the right to live despite their age, and you using science to justify it only shows your ignorance and and delusion. If you don't like a human, don't kill them
Potential-Ice8152@reddit
But they aren’t a human being, they are a clump of cells or very underdeveloped foetus that has zero chance of surviving outside of the womb.
I’m genuinely curious here, are you against abortion in 100% of circumstances?
Manuemax@reddit
Bruh you're literally a clump of cells, I am a clump of cells, humanity is a bunch of clumps of cells living in a clump of wood, bricks and concrete we call "home". Having human DNA (as every human has since conception ) makes you human.
My friend, every baby is incapable of living without any other people's help, does that make it right to kill them?
I only support it in the case of a real (not potential) threat to the mother's life or a 0% chance of the fetus surviving (a regrettable situation, but it's the lesser evil in that extreme case). In the case of r*pe and disabilities is understandable, but I think there should be other options available
Potential-Ice8152@reddit
So you do support murder then. It’s okay to murder a human to save another, when it was conceived out of rape, and when the human will be “disabled” (where do you draw the line with that one?)
I never said I’m pro-abortion in every single circumstance, yet you seemed to assume that and painted me as a murderer before contradicting yourself.
Manuemax@reddit
??? My bro how can you miss it so hard? Let's say it more clearly: it's only acceptable when there's no hope and is needed to save a life (barely 1% of abortion cases). The other cases I said I do not support them, but I understand them.
In the moment you said it's only a clump of cells, you showed the kind of person you're and what you support. This try of "forward withdrawal" won't work with me
Potential-Ice8152@reddit
I said “I should have the right to get a medical procedure” and called abortion murder. I did not specify under what circumstances I believe I should have that right. So why is it murder when I bring it up but not when you do? It can’t be murder sometimes, unless you’re okay with killing humans in particular situations.
Considering you support abortion when the mother’s life is in danger, you value her more than the foetus. But if a woman is raped, you don’t necessarily value her more. I don’t get that logic
madbuilder@reddit
When you say something silly like "because science" it really makes me wonder if you've ever stopped to think how many tyrants have used science to justify their evil acts.
Hume's is-ought problem reminds us that science can only tell us what is, not what there ought to be.
Potential-Ice8152@reddit
So science doesn’t matter? Where do you draw the line?
condoms4fruitrollups@reddit
I don't disagree with most of your comments. It sounds like you're just pointing out what seems out of place for you given your experience and position.
I will do the same to show that the two countries may not be so different from eachother. Australia might not have "masked goons plucking people off the streets on the basis of their ethnicity" as you have said, but we do have unmasked goons (police) in public spaces with dogs who will then strip search you for drugs, making you squat and cough in front of them, and if you're a woman, taking out your tampon, all the while your mate is waiting anxiously for you to return to your now warm peroni. Sitting at the pub and having a beer with your mate while three officers with dogs come around the pub sniffing you at 6pm on a Wednesday is... accepted by Aussies, but is completely alienating to foreigners.
Here we are, citizens, being stopped and strip searched because a dog indicated something. It reminds me of the now illegal stop and frisk policies of the NYPD in the 80s/90s.
Accomplished-Row439@reddit
What about the cop who tasered an elderly woman with a steak knife or the protest aggression from victorian police
Potential-Ice8152@reddit
What about him? Everywhere has asshole cops, we just don’t have as many
Big-Abalone-6392@reddit
Ha! Are these your two examples? The shit that comes out of the US on the daily. Sheesh. You guys are just desensitised to your bizzaro world and duped so much by your freedom eagle propaganda. Its embarrassing.
Panzer4041@reddit
Yeah I can’t believe I had to scroll all this way down to see an actually educated comment instead of some Americans say “grug likes guns and guns no legal in Aus therefore must be facist 1984 dictatorship” like most of these index’s, like this one measure things such as access to abortion something you Americans don’t seem to like. And yes we can own guns and I’d say we do it better than you because we don’t have mass shootings most weeks if not days. Thankyou for posting a truthful comment saargent.
1ndridC0ld@reddit
When you can go to federal prison for a Facebook post you are not as free as the US. That whole thing is is a lie to make us look bad.
CatatonicMan@reddit
The scores are taken from here:
https://freedomhouse.org/country/scores
DonQuoQuo@reddit
Australia: Freedom in the World 2025
United States: Freedom in the World 2025
Although I'd disagree with some of the exact scores, it's pretty defensible.
Tullyswimmer@reddit
https://freedomhouse.org/reports/freedom-world/freedom-world-research-methodology
Getting into the weeds a bit, almost every metric has "free from interference or influence by nonstate actors" as part of the scoring. That gives a LOT of wiggle room.
Also, while they gave a detailed breakdown for the US, they didn't for Australia, which makes me think this was created by a US-based group that idolized European/Australian government.
For instance, they rated Australia's freedom of speech on political topics as a 4/4, (metric D4) even though they have hate speech laws. They also rated Australia as higher in "personal social freedoms" (G3), while docking the US a point for overturning Roe V. Wade, even though Australia doesn't have a national law legalizing abortion, and where it is legal, it's far more restrictive than the least restrictive US states.
It's still highly subjective and still made by someone who takes a very nuanced approach to grading the US, but doesn't have anywhere near the same level of nuance (at least, not on the page) for Australia.
LionelLutz@reddit
Sorry where did you get your source that where abortion is legal it’s far more restrictive than the least restrictive states part of you post? Not my understanding or lived experience so I’d be curious for the source you had for that (if any)
Beddingtonsquire@reddit
How is abortion freedom for the unborn child?
We could look at it through different lenses and come to different conclusions.
LionelLutz@reddit
First I never said it was
Second - it probably isn’t, you know, because they are dead
But third it could be in the sense that they are free from having to live a life without a horrendous birth defect
So as you say it is probably a matter of perspective
Beddingtonsquire@reddit
The vast majority of abortions aren't done for serious birth defects.
But if you ask most with horrible birth defects, many do not want to die.
LionelLutz@reddit
Sure - is this research you have done yourself?
Beddingtonsquire@reddit
Here you go - https://lozierinstitute.org/fact-sheet-reasons-for-abortion/
1.2% are because of an abnormality in the baby.
LionelLutz@reddit
You might notice I said could, not is a perspective. You can’t tell me at least one of those people dot have that perspective or thought. What about those born into poverty or into drug addiction . While a low percentage of avortions are for medical reasons, I understand that in some red states those abortions are not permitted. Personally, I think such laws are draconian and unfair. I understand others have a different opinion – that’s fine.
Frankly, I don’t care which country is more free. It’s all subjective. But I like my country.
Beddingtonsquire@reddit
We all have views.
Beddingtonsquire@reddit
Is that a refutation ?
Beddingtonsquire@reddit
It's trivially easy to derive. You look at the rate of horrible birth defects as a share of births + abortions and compare them against the number of abortions.
wearenotamused@reddit
Do you have unlived experience?
LionelLutz@reddit
No, and I am not amused also
Tullyswimmer@reddit
So, according to Wikipedia...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Australia#Summary_of_state_laws
Only ACT is the same as our least restrictive states.
Every other state is what's considered to be the bare minimum acceptable protection (by our pro-abortion population)... And even then you don't need two doctors to consent. It's just the woman and whoever she asks for it.
Our judicial protection also included certain exceptions after 24 weeks, which I assume Australia does as well, but isn't listed on the Wikipedia page.
The Australian states outside of ACT would be right about the middle of the US states in terms of abortion protection. But also (and this is an important factor for the freedom index), they cite the US lacking a national abortion law as a problem, but don't mention that Australia ALSO doesn't have a national abortion law.
LionelLutz@reddit
Interesting, I must say I don’t have a detailed knowledge of the individual state to state restrictions in the US other than they. They’re being a significant number of Red states which have relatively draconian restrictions.
Tend to agree that whatever “freedom index” anyone comes up with has to be subjective because how TF does one actually measure something as ephemeral as freedom?
For me, perhaps I’m biased but I like the kind of freedom I get in Australia, as as much as I enjoy travelling in the US, I could not see myself living there. But again, that is entirely subjective.
DonQuoQuo@reddit
Hate speech isn't political speech. It's perfectly legal (and constitutionally protected) in Australia to call for essentially any political change you want.
Tullyswimmer@reddit
Even, say, deporting migrants from your country?
DonQuoQuo@reddit
Yes, if you want to advocate for laws to deport migrants, then you are protected in doing so.
sards3@reddit
Would I be allowed to say "we should deport migrants because they are biologically inferior?"
Would I be allowed to say "gays should be put into camps for conversion therapy because homosexuality is an abomination?"
DonQuoQuo@reddit
No. Australia's High Court has identified an implied freedom of political communication, which acts as a constraint on the power of governments to burden political speech.
This isn't an absolute guarantee of free speech. This is just like how the US will not protect you if you yell "fire" in a crowded theatre, or email a politician with detailed threats to them and their family, or try to broadcast porn on free-to-air TV. All societies have limits on free speech.
The US has decided that proclaiming race hate is acceptable. Most others have said it is corrosive and undermines people's illegitimate right to be safe.
sards3@reddit
Above, you argued that "hate speech isn't political speech." I gave you two examples of political speech which are banned in Australia because they are considered "hate speech." Australia does not have freedom of political speech.
I realize it is a typo, but yes, the "right to be safe" (interpreted as the right to not feel offended) is indeed illegitimate.
DonQuoQuo@reddit
(I appreciate you being sensible on the typo.)
So presumably you oppose criminalising verbal threats to a person's life on the grounds that just feeling safe shouldn't trounce someone's right to say whatever they want?
wearenotamused@reddit
There's significant distance between mean characterizations of a group with which you associate yourself and relatively explicit statements that you'll be subjected to unlawful violence.
DonQuoQuo@reddit
Agreed. It's a constant exercise of judgment calls - an absolute position is highly destructive.
wearenotamused@reddit
No, constant entertainment of changes eliminates the substance of a legal protection. If the line can move any year, nobody can speak freely in reliance on the most recent "judgment call". An unwavering position that draws the line through that significant distance I described in my previous reply is precisely what affords the reliable protection of speech needed in a free society.
DonQuoQuo@reddit
I get the theory you're propounding, but the legal lines in Australia are generally very clear.
The only time it's not is usually in niche cases involving some weird things like appointing guardians in dementia cases. The same issue exists in the US (Britney Spears' conservatorship being a good example).
wearenotamused@reddit
1) The "yelling fire in a crowded theater" thing is from a decision that was overturned in the 1960s for not protecting speech enough.
2) The US has decided that proclaiming race hate must be protected because SCOTUS recognizes that it's a tremendous danger to allow politicians or their appointees to decide what constitutes hate. The line is inherently political and begs for abuse. Just look at the UK of recent years.
DonQuoQuo@reddit
You'll be glad (or sad) to know though that it is still illegal to shout fire in a crowded theatre, even in the US.
Shouting fire in a crowded theater - Wikipedia
SCOTUS's take on race hate speech is a choice, but it's not one that many others have reached. For example, Germany has stringent laws forbidding denying the Holocaust. The American view, largely shaped by the Warren Court, is only about 70 years old, and is in decline.
wearenotamused@reddit
You expressed appreciation of another user's good faith, yet here you are with bad faith.
Is any part of that supposed to surprise American libertarians? What of that well-known fact about Germany? Trauma frequently leads people to make unwise decisions. They're hardly an example to follow, currently facing a widespread conspiracy by those in power to twist their constitution to ban a very popular opposition party for threatening to unseat the status quo position on immigration and multiculturalism.
The American view of "hate speech" is as old as the concept. Reigning precedents may only date to the Warren Court, but that's not because contrary precedent preceded it, but because the view previously went without serious challenge.
AutoModerator@reddit
The 'fire in a crowded theater' case was unanimously overturned by the Supreme Court decades ago. Stop using such a flawed and outdated analogy to argue for restrictions on free speech.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
AutoModerator@reddit
The 'fire in a crowded theater' case was unanimously overturned by the Supreme Court decades ago. Stop using such a flawed and outdated analogy to argue for restrictions on free speech.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
AutoModerator@reddit
The 'fire in a crowded theater' case was unanimously overturned by the Supreme Court decades ago. Stop using such a flawed and outdated analogy to argue for restrictions on free speech.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
wearenotamused@reddit
Pfft. Now it detects the phrase. 🙄
Beddingtonsquire@reddit
It's not a freedom index - it's a statist index.
narwi@reddit
Well, its sounds like you are idiolising the us system.
Tullyswimmer@reddit
Not necessarily, just pointing out that they're very similar yet the US scored lower and that was a big reason why.
Beddingtonsquire@reddit
No, it's not. It literally values not having "misinformation" over free speech.
This is a libertarian forum and the 'freedom index' literally argues that anti-libertarian ideals make us more free.
cfwang1337@reddit
Freedom House is pretty closely correlated with V-DEM, which is used by political scientists. Most of the stuff has to do with things like integrity of elections, press freedom, checks and balances, institutional health, etc. Definitely defensible.
TaxAg11@reddit
Because this "Freedom Index" doesn't measure Freedom in the same way that you would. It's all subjective and inherently biased towards the perspective of the creator of the index. You might value being able to own and carry firearms as a very high measurement of Freedom, while the index creator might have that weighted very low or not even included at all. There might be some quantitative factors included in the index, but there are still going to be factors that can't be objectively measured as such, and those that can are still subjectively given weights within the index.
Tayuven@reddit
Yeah, I feel like a lot of people get stuck on certain laws, or certain rules in some of these higher ranked countries. How it is some sort of gotcha on how they aren't actually free and that this is just extremely biased. However, if you go look at the data, and the way they measure and average the numbers, you can see that it is a good bit more comprehensive than that. Lots of factors add to these numbers, happiness of the population, how easy it is to recover from a job loss, how easily accessible healthcare is, religious freedoms, freedoms of speech, political freedom, political choice, etc... In the US, we have certain guaranteed freedoms that others don't. While, at the same time, we also have more limited political choice, a shrinking middle class, and more restrictive options for effective healthcare. Does owning a gun make you freer, when you can be shackled by poor socioeconomic mobility?
feel-the-avocado@reddit
> Does owning a gun make you freer, when you can be shackled by poor socioeconomic mobility?
That is a great way to put it.
If you have to stay at your shitty walmart job because you need the healthcare plan, when you would rather quit and go to community college to learn a trade so life is more enjoyable. Is that really freedom?
AgeOfReasonEnds31120@reddit
"the freedom to not die in a mass shooting"
"the freedom to have basic healthcare"
"the freedom to not be targeted with hate speech"
"the freedom to breathe fresh air"
Accomplished-Row439@reddit
At least freedom of speech is protected in your constitution, unfortunately ours isn't
ARCreef@reddit
Why isnt it? The government serves the people and is made of of the people.... why not gather up the people, get votes, sign petitions and get freedom of speech added to your constitution. I cant see why anyone would NOT want that.
Accomplished-Row439@reddit
The two major parties don't want that
dalkor@reddit
You say that, but people who are protected by the constitution are being disappeared for speaking their mind about matters that do not call for violence or hate. The government is retaliating against speech it doesn't like. Books are being banned from schools and libraries... And on top of all that you can sue someone into poverty if you have enough money. But at least it's in the constitution... :/
Civil-happiness-2000@reddit
Or you just sue like Donald Trump is going to fox
PiesJosh@reddit
That freedom is being tested every day
mitsuturbo206@reddit
One is factually and statistically more likely to die during a heatwave in Europe than to be shot with a firearm in the United States.
I'm not even going to go into pointing out anything on your other 3 quotes. Anybody with objective reasoning ability can see these statements to be hyperbolic at best.
AgeOfReasonEnds31120@reddit
and both causes of death are way way way way way way overexaggerated
Whistlegrapes@reddit
Those aren’t freedoms. You may consider them benefits worth pursuing. But they aren’t freedoms.
zekerthedog@reddit
You give too much credit to governments. Private citizens and corporations can steal freedom from you just as easily. If you can’t walk down the street without risk of violence you are less free than someone who can.
Whistlegrapes@reddit
All parties can restrict freedoms. Private citizens, corps, government. OP was misdefining freedoms in my opinion.
They were taking outcomes they liked and saying they want to be free to experience those outcomes. Those are misdefined as freedoms.
For instance if I want to be: free from worrying about where my next meal is coming from.
That’s not a freedom to be guaranteed a meal. It’s just an outcome I want.
zekerthedog@reddit
That’s semantics. The person with access to a meal has freedom to eat a meal. The person without access to a meal does not have freedom to eat a meal. The second person has less freedom than the first one does.
Whistlegrapes@reddit
At the surface level yes. But both people could have had the same free from restriction freedom to pursue a meal. One did. The other didn’t.
Take the homeless shelter that gives out free dinner. But you have to be there by 6:00, before doors close, to get dinner and a bed. If you knock at 6:05 it’s too late.
Person A and person B both have the same freedom to pursue that free meal. Person A gets there before 6. Person B does not get there or even try to get there. Would rather do drugs they got then pursue that meal/bed.
Neither man was truly free to not worry about their next meal. Both had to put in effort to achieve it. They didn’t have the luxury of a guaranteed meal, they weren’t free not to worry about their next meal, but they did have the freedom to pursue the meal. And it was free if they did the minimum to attain it.
TrueTrueBlackPilld@reddit
Chill out Karen
SimplyTerror@reddit
You do realise Aussies speak strayan and not cockney… right?
Lamehoodie@reddit
American’s don’t even know what those words mean
Beginning_Deer_735@reddit
They barely know what any words of 3 or more syllables mean these days. I am a citizen of the U.S. , for context. For at least a decade, I've felt as though I'm living in the end of the story "A Sound of Thunder".
AgeOfReasonEnds31120@reddit
Americans are statistically smarter than Southern Europeans.
Beginning_Deer_735@reddit
I've not spent much time with Southern Europeans, but-having spent a great deal of time with fellow "Americans"-this makes me feel really embarrassed for Southern Europeans. I guess we get some credit for not electing Harris, though it was far closer than it should have been. /s I just LOVE having to choose the lesser evil. /s
AgeOfReasonEnds31120@reddit
just combatting dumb stereotypes
skeletus@reddit
Yall hate on Americans so much
t0rnAsundr@reddit
Nobody cares.
AusCan531@reddit
I care. Now you can amend your argument to say only one person cares.
Pit-Smoker@reddit
Two.
Acrobatic_Mud_2989@reddit
Three
Any_Pudding_1812@reddit
four
Tefloncon@reddit
five
Techtragic@reddit
six
Renmarkable@reddit
Seven
Bango-TSW@reddit
Sadly I read that and imagined the accept of Dick van Dyke in Mary Poppins....
Euphoric-Cycle4854@reddit
Freedom isn’t some wish-list of handouts or “feel-good” protections. Freedom means the ability to make your own choices, take responsibility for your life, and deal with consequences without prosecution from the government. Whining that the world isn’t perfectly safe, clean, or politically correct is not about freedom.
UnwillingConduit@reddit
Good thing that's exactly what Freedom House sets out to do.
Tullyswimmer@reddit
The "Freedom index" that this source uses IS basically a list of "feel-good" protections and government programs.
I_am_from_Kentucky@reddit
freedom is defined by what you feel holds you back.
by your definition, slaves are free, so long as its a private citizen dishing out the consequences. they can decide to escape or not and take responsibility for the consequences.
Euphoric-Cycle4854@reddit
I don’t know what you’re talking about. Slavery is the literal absence of choice. Freedom isn’t only about dealing with consequences it’s first of all about having the actual ability and opportunity to make your own choices without risk of being prosecuted. Slaves obliviously can’t do that, so they are not free.
I_am_from_Kentucky@reddit
i'm drawing out the absurd slavery example to illustrate that "without prosecution from the government" is but one of many ways freedom is encroached; not the ONLY way.
if i'm forced against my will into a situation where my choices for bettering myself are artificially and significantly limited, and/or come with a risk of harmful (but entirely avoidable if the person allowed it) consequences, i'm not free. it doesn't matter if the person is a public official or a sovereign citizen.
BigBlueMan118@reddit
Those things are just handouts and feel-good protections, righto.
nayls142@reddit
For once, torturing logic didn't win the election.
Lower-Savings-794@reddit
The freedom of not getting shot is measured as a higher unit of freedom than the freedom to pack heat.
Nice-Log2764@reddit
There’s approximately 40,000-50,000 gun deaths per year in the US out of 340,000,000 people. That’s .015%. Social Security 99.9% of Americans seem to be going about their lives enjoying the freedom to not get shot.
GRADIUSIC_CYBER@reddit
no idea if those numbers are accurate, but you realize that sounds fucking crazy to say 40-50k gun deaths per year?
Nice-Log2764@reddit
I mean I’d obviously love for it to be less, I get that’s still a higher rate than most other countries. But gun violence is still something that inly affects a VERY tiny percentage of the population. You just hear about it all the time cause we’re a country of 350,000,000 people, so obviously we have way more gun deaths than countries with a tenth of our population. Not saying it’s not a problem, but not to the degree that a lot of people seem to think
GRADIUSIC_CYBER@reddit
we're ranked abysmally compared to other high income countries for gun deaths per 100k people
So honestly it's pretty bad.
I'll put it out there that I don't think restricting guns is the fix. But the problem is the mindset that so many people have that they NEED to have guns, because it's their right, 2nd amendment, self defense, etc. We're obsessed with guns, and I think a huge part of it is us getting played by the algorithm/politicians.
tymesup@reddit
58% are suicides. Still terrible, but it's misleading to just say "gun deaths".
baggytheo@reddit
The vast majority of those are suicides. And the vast majority of the actual gun homicides occur in a handful of inner-cities with the victims having direct involvement with the drug trade and/or gang violence. The average person in the US who is not in that kind of extreme outlier situation faces about as much risk of being a victim in of a gun homicide as your average European.
Lower-Savings-794@reddit
Australia has approx. 200 deaths per year. Their kids don't do Alice drills. If a school shooting were to happen there they wouldn't say "which one?". That's all I'm saying.
xEvanna456x@reddit
So youre saying, this is just a propaganda to make other countries bad?
lmea14@reddit
"The freedom to pay lots and lots of lovely taxes so you can get free healthcare!"
Fancy-Dragonfruit-88@reddit
The U.S. spends “more per capita” on healthcare than any other developed nation. You do pay taxes for healthcare
bite_me_punk@reddit
I think people in this thread are discounting the impact of policing on personal freedom, particularly if you factor in racially motivated policing. The US also has very restrictive local laws that try to control the shape of your house, whether there can be a local business within walking distance of where people live, etc.
eat_my_bubbles@reddit
This is a valid answer that reddit doesn't seem to like. Stop choosing sides, humans, and fight for what you know is right
feel-the-avocado@reddit
The freedom index rates countries based on a number of different things that add up to personal and economic freedom.
Things like freedom of speech, how easy it is to start a business, employment rights or the ability to quit your job and not loose your healthcare, political representation are all examples of things that add up to personal freedoms.
Your example of covid lockdowns is a good one.
In New Zealand, the prime minister got on the telly early and said "this is the plan - we are going to put in place some measures, but be prepared to lock down hard and fast".
Then they started a press confrence "1pm Daily Update" where the various departmental managers from police, health, etc would transparently report on the relevant facts and figures each day. IMDB Page
If a reporter asked a question and they didnt have the answer, it would be provided within hours for the 6pm evening news, or the person responsible would be there to answer on the next episode of the 1pm daily update the next day.
Now when it came time to lock down, we generally agreed. We are a sensible people and looked at the arguments for and against.
The result is while we locked down hard and fast, we then spent almost 2 years doing shit like this... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEpdsO_74qU
We had freedom as a result of our few weeks of lockdown.
Meanwhile other countries were going through wave after wave of lockdowns while surrounded by death and despair.
Its hard to explain... Covid was something we only saw on the 6pm news that affected other countries. Like watching a flood or a war with caskets and scenes of death.
It was something that happened elsewhere and didnt affect us. For almost 2 years.
So the freedom index is a good way to weigh up various competing things that can contribute to freedom and come out with a score.
In the USA you could own some pretty bad guns. But you have worse political representation via the electoral college, and starting a business is harder.
vs
In NZ you can own a gun - just not some types, But you have much better political representation due to Mixed Member Proportional, but starting a business is super easy.
Add in a bunch of other factors and places like Australia and NZ come out much better at realistic personal freedom than the USA which isnt very good at being free by comparison.
sivyh@reddit
look at what institution has made it and what is its agenda
political freeedom or political liberties are valued and evluated in different ways by people with different political opinions and biases
Beddingtonsquire@reddit
It's because it's leftist nonsense.
It should be ranked by freedom to say and do what you want without affecting other's rights being about 95% of the score.
But this index doesn't value free speech properly.
Turtlemcflurtle@reddit
Bro… Israel’s freedom index is even high on this scale
Traditional_Name7881@reddit
We have toy guns, what kind of bullshit are you talking?
RandomKnifeBro@reddit
You guys banned gel blasters yo
Potential-Ice8152@reddit
What’s your point
ManufacturerLost7686@reddit
Maybe that the argument that toy guns are banned is accurate after all?
Get blasters, nerf guns and airsoft are toys. If you ban them, you ban toy guns. And people can rightfully sling shit at you for it.
Potential-Ice8152@reddit
It depends what you classify as toy guns. I wouldn’t call airsofts and gel blasters toys.
And nerf guns are certainly not banned lol
Any_Pudding_1812@reddit
my 9 year old has plenty of nerf guns bought at a shop half a km away. legally.
HardcoreHazza@reddit
It’s varies state by state. QLD does NOT ban gel blasters.
A high school mate of mine ran a gel blaster business in NSW and moved to QLD when it was banned in NSW.
Traditional_Name7881@reddit
I'll take your word for it.
dellyj2@reddit
Yeah that is a weird comment: toy guns are not banned and not hard to find. Let’s put OP’s claim in the same basket as ‘drop bears are dangerous in Australia’.
kinglizardking@reddit
You know that liberty is not measure by gun ownership right?
hblok@reddit
That's true until you need that gun to fight for your liberty.
Potential-Ice8152@reddit
Yeah because a bunch of randoms from suburbia are capable of taking down the military
hblok@reddit
That's how a power balance works.
Notice during the covid debacle, not a single shot was fired, yet the US police toke a rather hands-off approach most of the time. Contrast to Europe, eg. Rotterdam, where the police shot a people with live ammunition, because they knew there would be no repercussions.
Similar to the nuclear MAD stalemate, it's not always necessary to use the weapons for them to have an effect.
Potential-Ice8152@reddit
Okay, so why didn’t people at Jan 6 use guns to fight for their liberty? Or the hardcore anti-lockdown people when the government forced them to stay at home?
Sierra17181928@reddit
In which case, why haven't your citizens risen up against the fascist dictator in the White House?
Zeusnexus@reddit
He's targeting the right people, that's why you don't hear a peep from em.
Intelligent_Art_6004@reddit
Depends on who is asking the questions, whom they are asking, and how the question is presented
scody15@reddit
Because "freedom" means how easy is it to get an abortion and how much welfare is there
nifeman20@reddit
Canada also lmao
Dog_Backup@reddit
Study is prolly paid for by aussies
Ted_Rid@reddit
You can own guns in Australia. Plenty of people do. You just can't buy them at the supermarket with no ID or background checks. Nobody was locked in their homes during COVID. OP can't be Aussie because their info is misleading to say the least.
Anyway, to answer the question the methodology can be found here:
https://freedomhouse.org/reports/freedom-world/freedom-world-research-methodology
It's quite long and wordy so not capable of being easily summarised into dot points, but suffice to say it's about much more than guns, licences, or covid.
KillerofGodz@reddit
Yes because Australians telling me they had to register a friend so they could visit them is totally not authoritarian...
Ted_Rid@reddit
And which country came out of covid 3rd best in the world after Taiwan and New Zealand?
condoms4fruitrollups@reddit
Not everyone measures quality of life by deaths, essentially like this report on freedom. Everyone has different metrics to measure by. Whether you agreed with the measures or not is irrelevant. The commenter is talking about "freedom" in some capacity.
Ted_Rid@reddit
I certainly need to be alive to have a quality of life. Your mileage may vary.
People can gripe if they want about a temporary situation that ended years ago but that's not what the report is about.
So there are 25 indicators each worth 0-4 points for a total out of 100.
COVID lockdowns were only tangentially relevant to E1 "Freedom of Assembly" (you could still organise, only virtually), and G1 "Do individuals enjoy freedom of movement, including the ability to change their place of residence, employment, or education?"
Whatever national differences in approach happened during the pandemic, they'd barely if at all change the overall scoring which is based on a whole slew of economic, personal, and political rights.
I'd encourage anyone to at least read the questions. It's all very reasonable IMO and builds up a strong overall view.
https://freedomhouse.org/reports/freedom-world/freedom-world-research-methodology
condoms4fruitrollups@reddit
My comment to you was based off your comment of: 'who came out on top.' It appears you measure that metric by least deaths, others may measure it by freedom of movement amongst other things. I'm just trying to ask you to see how that could be a thing with others and how they measure their QOL.
Ted_Rid@reddit
That's OK. If people want to compare countries based on what happened for a few months 5 years ago that's their freedom.
And they can choose whatever metrics they like.
I try to live my life according to providing max benefit to others and/or least harm. Others can have different ethics, that's their prerogative.
Back to the original complaint, it was that people needed to record friends who they visit. Old mate called that "authoritarian" which IMO is hyperbole.
We had a short period of "stay at home please except for exercise or shopping" to reduce the spread. Fine.
Exceptions were made for people in relationships living in different houses. So they were allowed to hang out and stay over. Good.
People then said "hey, why is romance privileged? I have a best buddy who means as much to me as any romantic partner" so that was allowed also. This is also good.
The registering concept was only to prevent people from taking the piss, and doing the social butterfly rounds of a dozen homes in a day. That's all. It's not like The Man cared who they were.
Only that on the off chance the cops saw you entering a house and asked if you lived there or what you were doing, you could say "no dramas, it's my BFF".
In reality none of this was stringently enforced and it's hyperbole to use it as an example. I drove across town to my parents every weekend and nobody raised an eyebrow. I was delivering "care packages" of delicatessen goods with a roll of TP thrown on top for plausibility. Care package deliveries didn't need the aforementioned registration.
As is often the case, the reality on the ground is very different to what anyone can glean at a distance from reports. The aim was to cut down on a free-for-all of socialising in enclosed spaces, and many many people socialised outdoors instead.
It honestly wasn't a big deal at all.
condoms4fruitrollups@reddit
Your experience is valid. I know several people who experienced similar to you. I, however, ask that you take a moment to think how that was not the case for many people in your community and how their experiences were also valid.
Youve made a comment to another user in this post that the entire situation wasn't bad and certaint restrictions didn't exist to which you received an energised reply from that user. As someone who counted votes in the 2022 NSW state elections, I unfortunately have to inform you that the number of null votes with messages pertaining to the COVID policies was... Immense. While your LGA sounds minimally affected, I can assure you that central and western Sydney did not share that same fate and the vitriolic messages towards the government/society written on the ballots reflected that. This is our community and we should be aware and concerned that this happened and not gaslight anyone into thinking it did not.
Ted_Rid@reddit
Agreed, Western Sydney had it hard including with more overbearing policing. Part of this was ironically because there are more essential workers there - basically people who can't work remotely but have to be physically present at their jobs, meaning more infections.
I also have a personal perspective on this coz a sibling of mine is a senior doctor at Liverpool Hospital and in fact spent the entire pandemic watching people die away from their loved ones, intubated in the covid ward. And as we all know, the more resources devoted to covid, the less for other needs meaning excess deaths and suffering elsewhere also.
So where I draw the line on somewhat intrusive temporary restrictions vs risk of nasty avoidable death is skewed towards more restrictions.
W_Smith_19_84@reddit
"You just can't buy them at the supermarket with no ID or background checks."
You can't do that in america either... and it's pretty tiresome that leftists still try to make this claim.
Potential-Ice8152@reddit
You can guy a gun from an unlicensed private seller without an ID though
Ted_Rid@reddit
I'm an Aussie, not a "leftist". Please don't drag me into your Us vs Them framing.
B00TYMASTER@reddit
bc there’s not too much free anymore about living in a budding fascist dictatorship.
wood-is-good@reddit
. It’s hard to create an index across various arbitrary dimensions. The best indices are ones that measure a few concrete things within a particular category. (Economic vs personal freedom).
advadm@reddit
because nothing says freedom like a wealth tax.
Civil-happiness-2000@reddit
Australia has lots of freedom.
Free camping sites
Guns you have licenses. But I'm ok with that. With freedom comes responsibility .
You can't have freedom without duty and obligations .
It's actually not hard to get a gun in Australia 🦘. You need to do training, you need to keep up your training, you need to keep your gun in a safe (so criminals can't steal it easily).
You are free to open a business. To buy a house. Or rent. Or live in a van.
Health care is free. But taxes pay for it.
There is not a defined freedom of speech. True. But you can say most things if you're as long as you aren't being a bad cunt.
You can ride a bike without a license. The trade off is you wear a helmet 🪖. Which is also about modeling children to wear helmets.
Sea-Louse@reddit
Freedom from medical debt perhaps. Americas big freedom is for corporations to take advantage of everyone financially.
Lemon8912@reddit
Considering that the UK is considered more free than the US, I know that it cannot be trusted, cuz people are being arrested for social media posts and saying fairly normal things over there.
CreampieForMommie@reddit
The shit aussies pull on their own people is frightening.
dellyj2@reddit
Examples please.
condoms4fruitrollups@reddit
As a foreign born Australian, here is a short list of what non-Australians find odd and/or frightening about government here:
Dehumanising policy of strip searching in public spaces Alcohol and drug testing road blocks COVID lockdowns/mandatory quarantine Mandatory employment vaccination laws during COVID Online ID bill (under 16 social media ban) Anti protest laws Anti free speech laws centred around the Melbourne Nazi panic debate The amount and type of speed/traffic Cameras on roads Mandatory voting for all elections
dellyj2@reddit
Most of that is not frightening to most Australians.
condoms4fruitrollups@reddit
That's exactly my point. You may need to re-read my comment.
BibleIsAlwaysRight94@reddit
As a USA citizen who lived in Australia for almost 2 years, that index seems questionable at best…..
Trypt2k@reddit
In Canada. We define freedom by how many times we can get robbed and called privileged by the robber, also by how much jail time you get by defending yourself against violence. The more, the higher the freedom index, hence the ranking.
Ultimate_Driving@reddit
The right to own guns is not, and never has been the gauge of how free a society is. The party that claims to be all about freedom is actually VERY open about getting rid of freedom.
Oh, but as long as we have guns, I guess they can take away whatever else they want.
AlchemicalToad@reddit
I’m 110% pro guns, but this is absolutely correct.
MexicanLiverPunch@reddit
The right to kill an unborn child is not, and never has been the gauge of how free a society is. The party that claims to be all about freedom is actually VERY open about getting rid of freedom.
Oh, but as long as we have abortion, I guess they can take away whatever else they want.
ShintouHiroyuky@reddit
Based Chile is based 🇨🇱
berkough@reddit
Or Canada for that matter... Clearly what is being defined as "freedom" is not consistent with a libertarian definition.
goatxe@reddit
They will likely rewrite that Cambridge definition.
You can't have true freedom and total control at the same time.
The 2 will collide soon enough.
BrStEd@reddit
Fake news obviously
MoreWretchThanSage@reddit
Well, the US is under an authoritarian fascist administration, so there is that?
Robertos1987@reddit
The people on this sub need to see this. The bots are out of control. Look how they come and straight up LIE. Why?
https://cso.nsw.gov.au/resources/legal-alerts-presentations-papers/public-health-orders.html
So you forgot this happened?!?!? Why lie when i can easily prove you wrong? Social gatherings limited to 2, and ordered not to leave home unless for a certain few conditions. Absolute pathetic to lie like this. Why would anyone trust a thing you say?
DistinctAd3848@reddit
Because Australia provides you freedom from speaking for yourself, they will do it all for you instead.
sblowes@reddit
Dang, six countries below North Korea, including Eritrea. Occupied Ukraine is the bottom of the list at -1/100, which makes me wonder about their math.
UnwillingConduit@reddit
Here is the link to Freedom House's methodology.
https://freedomhouse.org/reports/freedom-world/freedom-world-research-methodology
It explains how and why scores are calculated. Pertinent information for this discussion: personal liberties and individual rights can carry a weight of up to four points, the largest point value a category can score. (Some categories can receive up to 4 while others receive up to 3.) However political freedoms and function of government are also categories that are weighted at up to four points each.
Australia scored nearly perfect on the political rights section with only a one point loss for minority groups not having ideal access to full political rights and electoral opportunities.
In terms of civil liberties, the larger of the two sections, Australia took single point losses in a few categories.
Free media Labor rights Equal application and execution of law Equality of economic opportunity and freedom from economic exploitation.
Meanwhile, the US scores an 84, losing points in
Fair and impartial elections: gerrymandering Freedom from domination of political choices from outside entities: lobbying Full electoral rights and opportunities for minority communities: weakened protections for black, female, and LGBTQ+ individuals and communities. Policy formed by the freely elected head of government and legislative body: Polarization and Obstruction (I'll admit that this argument is done better justice in the Report on Freedom House's website, however I think that an effective and cooperative leader and legislative body are potentially more dangerous to freedom.) Safeguards against corruption: too much money in politics Government transparency: Inadequate staffing and process to meet the standards of the Freedom of Information Act, downsizing of investigating bodies by the executive, and Polarization.
Now on to civil liberties and individual freedoms. Free media: Polarization, rising number of violations of press freedom, public abandonment of protected media sources, media conglomeration, and lack of source diversity for underserved communities. Academic Freedom: Researchers and academic institutions face pressure from both sides of the aisle, compromising their academic integrity. Labor rights: declining union strength and protections. Judicial independence: decaying appointment rules, ethics scandals, partisan involvement in state court elections, harassment of judicial officials by leading members of the administration, abuses of pardon powers. Due Process: High use of plea bargaining to circumvent trial that creates a dichotomy where those who can afford to pay for lawyers and plea bargains get away with more, and those who cannot afford it are punished harder for less. Protection from use of unlawful physical force (freedom from violence): high crime rates compared to similar nations, lack of police accountability, declining jail/prison conditions. THE 2 POINT LOSS - equal application and execution of law: growing hate-crime rate, stagnated social mobility, wealth gaps, mistreatment of migrant populations both citizen and non-citizen, insufficient asylum systems, human rights violations. Personal Social Freedoms: high rates of (g)rape and domestic violence, loss of abortion rights, declining transgender rights. Equality of economic opportunity and freedom from economic exploitation: income gap and wealth inequality, growing cost of living, less stable employment for average citizens, lack of public transportation, and growing unemployment.
I've just briefly summarized, but I do recommend you check out Freedom House's website and look at the country profiles they have in place.
MexicanLiverPunch@reddit
That entire methodology seems completely arbitrary. I don’t equate abortion with freedom, but that’s me.
narwi@reddit
Completely hilalrous seeing people living in a country that rounds up people and deports them to foreign prisons without due process or court access complaining about a low liberty score.
Completely hillarious seeing people from a country that checks people's devices on border for memes and other free speech and can deport based on that claim other places have less free speech.
Completely ridiculous seeing people from a country that deports students based on what protests they went to complaining about low freedom score and pointing fingers.
Its ridiculous for people from a country where local officials can control what you are allowed to travel for another state (abortion) claim they have "too low freedom score".
If anything, the USA has far too high score. You are very close to China in practice.
aej302@reddit
How is Europe higher? You go to jail for misgendering someone. A guy actually went to jail for flipping off a traffic camera in England. Do you think any of these other countries don't deport people who are illegally in country? I don't understand how that's even an argument. Also, I just came thru the border and no one took my phone away to look thru it
someofyourbeeswaxx@reddit
lol please don’t believe things you learned from a meme
MexicanLiverPunch@reddit
Ain’t a meme…
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-43872007.amp
someofyourbeeswaxx@reddit
You didn’t read your own link, classic, thanks for the laugh.
narwi@reddit
you have swallowed truly impresive amounts of bullshit propaganda.
the driver "jailed for flipping off trafic cameras" had an illegal jammer on his car which is what he went to jail for. you can go to jail for this in the usa too.
nobody is going to jail over misgendering and never will. the case from ireland people love to cite was a case where a teacher went to jail over contempt of court after he was banned from showing up at school. again, usa sends people to jail over contempt of court on a regular basis.
MidAgeOnePercenter@reddit
This particular index ignores economic freedom as it comes from freedom house which is based primarily on human rights and compliance with us aid interests and is tied to the us state department. There is another on the same site from Cato which shows the us in a slightly stronger light though it still loves Australia .
Tullyswimmer@reddit
https://freedomhouse.org/reports/freedom-world/freedom-world-research-methodology
And just look at the difference in breakdown:
https://freedomhouse.org/country/australia/freedom-world/2025
https://freedomhouse.org/country/united-states/freedom-world/2025
Whoever is behind freedom house obviously has a very thorough understanding of the US political system, and is (in some cases, rightfully, in others, I disagree) docking the US points. But they don't have nearly as detailed a breakdown for Australia.
I don't want to say that they have an anti-US bias. But they definitely know a whole lot of detail about the US and are judging it knowing that (They mentioned January 6th as a threat to free and fair elections, which might be technically true but I don't think it's worth docking a whole point, since it only happened once, and there's tons of elections all over the country that are completely free and fair). They also gave Australia a flat 4/4 for some of the other personal freedoms despite Australia literally putting people in camps during COVID.... Which if you're going to cite J6 for the US, you should also dock points from Australia for that sort of thing, especially as it was official government action.
Easy_Magician_925@reddit
January 6 doesnt count because it only happened once. What in the world.
Tullyswimmer@reddit
It's more that they went from a 4/4 to a 3/4 based significantly on that. Which is fine, but then they don't dock a point from Australia for something based on the way they handled COVID.
justalatvianbruh@reddit
i’m struggling to understand how response to a pandemic is in any way comparable to an attempted coup.
sards3@reddit
For one thing, it was not in fact an attempted coup.
unleadedcube@reddit
Brother, they put people in camps against their will. Of course they should dock a point.
ly5ergic@reddit
Where do you see the -1 point for Jan 6th? I wonder if they did the same for Brazil?
Tullyswimmer@reddit
Well, under point B3, the 4th and 5th paragraph down talk about it extensively. So it was a major factor in their decision to drop a point.
ly5ergic@reddit
Thanks, I see it now. They did deduct for Brazil as well.
Tullyswimmer@reddit
And again, I wouldn't argue that it's entirely unfair. It's more that if you're going to deduct a whole point (which maybe speaks more to the scale than anything) for that, there's other things that other countries GOVERNMENTS have done, as official acts, that should be reason for docking points (in the appropriate areas). And France has protests over almost anything political, but don't get docked points for it because it's basically the national sport.
ly5ergic@reddit
I wasn't arguing anything. My scanning just didn't catch the spot where Jan 6 was mentioned and I was curious if they did the same for Brazil.
Have they broken into the capital in France or contested election results? I know very little about French politics. But there are lots of protests in the US every year too.
Size, intent, damage, etc matter.
B3 had multiple issues, not just Jan 6 that led to -1 point.
I didn't have any point or argument originally, but I guess now my stance is deducting 1 point for Super PACs, little restriction of money in elections, hidden money, special interest groups and lobbying, little transparency, politicians being corrupt and taking bribes, undermining, and trying to overturn the results of an election. That doesn't seem unreasonable to lose a point. It seems Brazil got the same treatment.
I don't have enough knowledge of each country's politics to compare whether the US is being treated differently, though. Maybe it is.
Ruebenlikestocook123@reddit
I'd argue that nothing you've listed in this post actually demonstrates that Australia is less free than the US:
1) You can own a toy gun in Australia. I'm not sure who told you that you couldn't lol, I own several.
2) Sure, you need a license do many things, such as fishing, boating, owning firearms etc, but these processes aren't very hard to do and are not very controlling. Sure, they're somewhat restricted, but they usually come with their own advantages (like the freedom to walk around at night without fearing for your life).
3) During COVID, we had a lot of capacity for freedom (I.e. large distances that we could walk from our house, very short lock down periods, and no mandated QR code scanning). The upside was less people died, and we were compensated excellently. My dad actually made more money during COVID than he did at work! (He is a baristar). (Like prisoner's is pretty hyperbolic lol).
And that's ignoring the fact that Americans lack a lot of freedoms Aussie's have! I.e. lower drinking age, drinking in public, camping, freedom from time off work, ability to have abortions and use contraception, etc.
condoms4fruitrollups@reddit
You may have experienced these things during COVID in your area, but I will remind you that nearly 50% of Australians had severe restrictions of movement for nearly two years. If you didn't live in Melbourne or Sydney, which it appears you didn't, you would have faired better. All Australian citizens and permanent residents were denied leaving (and entering at will) the country for two years unless we petitioned the government with documents that met their narrow criteria. I think this is just one of the things the world saw that they focused on that was terrifying to them as Australia was among less than a handful of countries who did that policy.
Can you clarify what you mean by freedom to camp in your post? I'm pretty sure Americans have the same.
SamURLJackson@reddit
I find it kind of funny that the first example you use is guns.
Australia has subsidized healthcare for everyone, wages are higher, better labor laws, more public holidays. It's quite impressive. But kids can't own a toy gun so skepticism is deployed
condoms4fruitrollups@reddit
I think most people agreed with lockdowns because Australian culture is compliant. The tall poppy nature of our culture really stopped people from expressing alternative opinions.
libertarianinus@reddit
In austrailia they took away guns. Most people dont realize how much crime is still in Australia. Beautiful people and everything on the contentment will kill humans.
"In 2020, Australia had an overall crime rate of 6.87 per 100,000 people, while the US had a rate of 8.5 per 100,000."
"freedom of speech is not explicitly guaranteed by the Constitution but is instead an implied right, primarily for political communication, and also protected through common law and various statutes"
rendrag099@reddit
1) AUS only got 20% compliance with that "buyback" program
2) Private ownership of firearms exceeds the level before the buyback program.
unique_usemame@reddit
The buyback program, the corresponding social pressure after Port Arthur, etc, was I believe more about limiting weapons that could shoot 58 people than preventing more typical weaponry. Hence private ownership of firearms can be high while there is a social stigma (and legal issues) with other weapons. The social stigma has the effect that if you do own a weapon that isn't legal, you can't show your friends, etc, so there is less desire to own one.
rendrag099@reddit
Based on what evidence? Everything I saw was about limiting ownership of firearms period, not just "assault weapons" or weapons capable of shooting 58 people (which technically any firearm could do).
ButterflySuper2967@reddit
That crime rate in Australia is .687. Not 6.87. The decimal point really makes a difference
libertarianinus@reddit
Can you show that data please so I can change info. Thanks in advance.
ButterflySuper2967@reddit
SARS2KilledEpstein@reddit
That's only the homicide rate and not the overall crime rate.
libertarianinus@reddit
Thank you
ButterflySuper2967@reddit
https://www.macrotrends.net/
libertarianinus@reddit
If you see the quotes, it was copied from website. Rapes are worse there also but data only goes up to 2014 here.
https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Australia/United-States/Crime
FertilisedEggs@reddit
Contentment? And only idiots actually think all our animals kill us. Just look up how many people actually die a year from them,. I wouldn't be harping on too much about the constitution too when your wannabe dictator shits all over it.
sss133@reddit
The everything thing will kill you is vastly overstated….. wait no it isn’t my bad
Traditional_Name7881@reddit
Crime rate is lower and there's a much smaller population, I'd assume the murder rate would be a lot lower too? Also there is fuck all here that will kill us, crocs up north if you're swimming where you shouldn't be, snake and spider deaths aren't common. At least we don't have grizzly bears or mountain lions that can fuck us up going for a hike or even in our backyards like some places in North America.
libertarianinus@reddit
You need per capita....usually its 100k people. Rape is higher but murder is lower.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Australia
Traditional_Name7881@reddit
It says in the comment I was replying to the rates per 100k. Not sure I needed to specify that.
Scoopity_scoopp@reddit
POV you don’t know what “rate” means.
definitlyspelledrong@reddit
Government can’t force you to carry a pregnancy because of where you live
No nationwide waiting periods or forced counseling for abortion
You won’t go bankrupt from getting sick — universal healthcare for all
You can get medical care without navigating an insurance labyrinth
You can walk down the street without cops randomly shaking you down
Gay marriage legalized nationwide in one sweep — no state can roll it back
National legal recognition of gender changes without state-by-state battles
Anti-discrimination protections for gender identity and sexual orientation in federal law
Public healthcare covers gender-affirming treatments in most cases
No “war on drugs” at U.S. scale — personal cannabis possession legal or decriminalized nationwide
Far lower incarceration rates for nonviolent drug offenses
Police rarely use civil asset forfeiture against people never charged with a crime
No life sentences for petty or nonviolent offenses
Far fewer people in prison overall, and shorter sentences for nonviolent crimes
Politicians can’t gerrymander away your vote at the state level
Courts aren’t openly partisan battlegrounds for basic rights
converthis@reddit
I live i australia. One thing i noticed during the covid lockdowns is the north american media really was demonizing our lockdowns. Like dont get me wrong, we did have some pretty serious lockdowns. But the media definitely made it seem 100x worse.
I could go to most of the things i did before just with a lot of social distancing. I went to the beach with my dog. My job was considered essential so i still went to work. Etc.
Cant comment on the rest of the post.
Tullyswimmer@reddit
It wasn't the lockdowns. It was the fact that you set up camps that you forced people to quarantine in, and then arrested them if they "escaped".
That's pretty dystopian.
converthis@reddit
That was just international travelers. You just stayed there until you were past the incubation period. Ya that was pretty harsh. Not a lot of freedom there, but that didnt apply to almost anyone
Tullyswimmer@reddit
It applied to domestic travelers as well, long into 2021:
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/20/world/australia/howard-springs-quarantine.html
You still had aboriginal people being put into them in 2022:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-03/camps-open-to-address-covid-affected-rough-sleepers/100798900
And they WERE arresting people and bringing them to camps
https://unherd.com/newsroom/inside-australias-covid-internment-camp
So... It seems like it was for a lot more than "just international travelers" unless people moving within Australia count.
converthis@reddit
Hmmm this is tough cause it kind of goes back to my original point. That i think the news stories were a lot scarier than what was actually happening.
I cant comment on the aboriginal communities and honestly i wouldnt be suprised if they were treated fucking terribly. But in my state (QLD) we just never heard of any of that happening.
I was really involved with it all through work, so i feel like if people were being detained and forced into camps it just would have been talked about locally.
condoms4fruitrollups@reddit
The news stories were very sensational for sure during COVID. It reminds me of the stories about the US you see in Australia at any point in the year: extremely driven by fear to provoke an emotional response and agenda.
One thing I don't think Australians knew much about were the locking down of entire buildings and complexes for weeks due to infections being detected. In winter 2021 I experienced one of the Roma St. Backpacker accommodations going into lockdown over a confirmed case. Imagine waking up to police knocking on your dorm room door and being told you aren't able to leave for the next 2/3 weeks. Police tape went up around the building and police stationed outside 24/7 so you couldn't leave. It was very traumatising and dystoptian depending on your originating perspective.
When I lived in Melbourne in 2020, the government housing tower blocks across the city experienced the same thing. I had many, many clients in those towers and believe me, they're not all right to this day.
madbuilder@reddit
I don't want to gang up on you as if you were in any way responsible for this mess. I'd like to point out the Australian government, just like my government, specifically chose these measures to not impact a large number of their own voters. That's what unrestrained democracies do: They put individual rights under the bus to gain votes. So saying that something impacted a small number of people is exactly what moustache man said when he set up those summer camps for you know who.
Tullyswimmer@reddit
I mean, I totally agree about the news stories being the most sensationalized. But there's enough of them where people traveling within Australia would be sent to the camps based on the state they were from or going to that it SHOULD count against them for something, based on some of the things they counted against the US in other metrics.
Potential-Ice8152@reddit
That last link is pretty biased and sensationalist. The only story I could find from a quick google search about people being arrested was three kids who “escaped” a quarantine camp in the NY
madbuilder@reddit
You went to the beach, wow. So free. What would happen if you tried to get a breath of that sea air? And what happened to the mental health of those who were told they were not essential?
With everyone back to normal, no one vaccinating, and partying it up, does it all seem like a very silly episode of insanity? In Canada we owe a lot to the truckers for reminding us of what really matters.
chrisabraham@reddit
Cooked books?
DryAssumption@reddit
Yep, Australia has a rule for everything and it’s generally enforced
44mac@reddit
You assholes elected a fascist dictator. That’s how.
rakedbdrop@reddit
They created the chart. Also Canada is free-er as well.
Tough-Birthday9367@reddit
How is Canada so high? We literally cant even smoke menthol ciggarettes and our national news is funded by one party of our goverment. We dont have freedom of speech and there is 0 bodily autonomy here. You should seenthe working conditions. People die all the time. Its insane.
newportbeach75@reddit
This index was created as a political tool. It has no correlation with real life in those countries.
CytotoxicCD8@reddit
Lol Americans thinking they are the only country with freedom.
HannyBo9@reddit
How is the uk higher than the USA. People are getting arrested for social media posts.
narwi@reddit
In the USA, people are getting deported on borders for social media posts, and students are being deported based on which protests they went to.
HannyBo9@reddit
Yeah because they are here illegally.
narwi@reddit
how do you know that without due process?
Glorfindel42@reddit
Lmao the USA comments here 🤣
No_Adhesiveness3602@reddit
Read the methodology and report on each country, there are some valid points, however, it turns on subjectivity.
https://freedomhouse.org/reports/freedom-world/freedom-world-research-methodology
waltercool@reddit
Isn't Canada the country where the Prime Minister executed an order to freeze assets and bank accounts from protesters during COVID?
Isn't Canada the country who banned entry to woods blaming that wildfire?
It's ridiculous to consider Canada with 98 points. If a Prime Minister or Premier (regardless of the side) have the power to enact this kind of orders that easily, it shouldn't be considered almost same as Finland, Norway... or even Uruguay.
madbuilder@reddit
Yes that is exactly what I'm thinking. Freedom means something entirely different to the people who mak these lists. They think it means the freedom to get other people to pay for your stuff, or the freedom to abort your own baby in the womb. In Canada most of us are worried that our doctor will retire, or move away, and we'll have the right to non-existant health care.
SeaSquirrel@reddit
“Protesters”
Easy_Magician_925@reddit
Most people dont think owning a gun has anything to do with freedom.
Manuemax@reddit
A lot of idiots here in Europe think defending the right to have a gun means you want crazy people to go shooting everyone and in favour of school shootings.
They're so fucking obtuse they don't understand our lack of right to defend ourselves is directly linked with the lack of freedom to obtain the means to preserve our life and make our self defence possible
101bees@reddit
The UK seems to barely recognize the right to self-defense at all. I'll never forget a Reddit post I saw in here of a farmer trying to navigate the legal red tape to see if he could defend himself and his property from a group of thugs without getting jail time. These criminals stole his equipment multiple times and even threatened his life on more than one occasion. Seeking legal advice on Reddit to help navigate your country's convoluted laws around defending property and self after someone repeatedly robbed you, beat you, and threatened you with a boxcutter is fucking insanity to me as an American.
Manuemax@reddit
Yeah that's pretty nuts, the UK (and Europe in general) protect criminals more than they protect their victims..
In Spain we went through a similar case where an thug broke into an old man's house and charged towards him with a chainsaw, and the old man, naturally, shot him in self defence (he was a hunter) and killed the guy. Well, the courts wanted to send him to jail for 10 years, but because of social pressure they ended up reducing it to 2 years, but he was sent to jail regardless 🤦🏼
madbuilder@reddit
That's crazy. Was he supposed to use a second chainsaw??
Manuemax@reddit
Ha, nice one, but for Spanish law, he should call the police and hope they save him, or just die for the guy to go a couple years to jail.
That's Spanish law for you
runningvicuna@reddit
That was New Zealand with the prisoner apartments and checks and getting body slammed at the grocery store for not having a mask.
hypercomms2001@reddit
Because we have not given up our country to a potentially crawl and repressive dictator….
KillerofGodz@reddit
Lol, we all saw you guys during COVID. Don't lie to us...
hypercomms2001@reddit
How fucking stupid… how many Americans died during Covid… and compare that to how many Australians died during the same crisis… tough as they were, a bloody proud that my Country had to make the decisions that did, as that saved the lies of many Australians….
Accomplished-Row439@reddit
America has over 10 times the population so obviously more deaths will occur. Lots of things are banned or censored in Australia, like airsoft and gel blasters (WA).
Potential-Ice8152@reddit
The US had 341.11 deaths per 100,000 people vs 76.88 in Australia
Why does it matter if airsofts and gel blasters are banned in WA?
Accomplished-Row439@reddit
It means a lack of freedom
Potential-Ice8152@reddit
What about my stats on Covid deaths?
Idk why airsofts and gel blasters = freedom. I guess we should unban everything, right?
Accomplished-Row439@reddit
It's unnecessary to ban harmless toys
PopeGregoryTheBased@reddit
Because the freedom index is ran by ideologues who want to convince people endless government bureaucracy and lack of speech protections are freedom. And their methodology is overly reliant on factors that i wouldnt count as particularly identifying of an individuals personal freedom.
The freedom index uses a list of what is basically government provided programs to determine how free an individual is. It doesnt index things like the right to self determination, freedom of religion, freedom of press, freedom of speech, the right to bare arms, or even having a codified list of protected rights the government cant violate on a whim. Hence why a country that had concentration camps for people who wouldnt get a vaccine in the last decade ranks higher then the united states.
Majsharan@reddit
They tend to rank things like abortion access but also will include things like universal healthcare as being free from worry about health also some people think that is media is less free now than it was
Ted_Rid@reddit
In the methodology, healthcare isn't mentioned at all, and access to reproductive healthcare is only 1 dot point out of 7 under the general 4 points available for "G3: Do individuals enjoy personal social freedoms, including choice of marriage partner and size of family, protection from domestic violence, and control over appearance?"
Here's the bit that mentions abortion in full. As mentioned, it's basically 1/7 of 1 question out of 26 or 0.55% of the total score if we try to quantify it.
zoidberg_doc@reddit
How is that only 1/7 of a question?
Ted_Rid@reddit
Oh, because the full methodology is insanely long so I've been avoiding pasting great slabs of it.
Here's the full question:
G3: Do individuals enjoy personal social freedoms, including choice of marriage partner and size of family, protection from domestic violence, and control over appearance?
I'd estimate both countries are basically equal on all these factors, except the final 3 where Australia is more free. The US has swung hard against abortion, and is more restrictive on the final two points also. The current ICE operations are also hitting the foreign spouses with married people on a path to citizenship being deported.
In a libertarian sub, I'd expect most people would agree that dot points 4-7 are slipping hard against freedom at the moment.
sards3@reddit
I get the abortion point. I don't know why you think the last two points are slipping hard against freedom in the USA.
For the USA, it seems like the answer is pretty clearly "no."
Also "no."
Ted_Rid@reddit
You haven't noticed the strong anti-trans bias in the current admin? What else is that, other than the government interfering in people's private choices? On day 1 Trump scribbled his squiggle on a piece of paper declaring that trans people basically don't exist and belong to their birth gender FFS.
And religious groups absolutely infringe on personal freedoms like gender expression and marriage partner.
They're trying to overturn same sex marriage in the stacked (by religious groups) SCOTUS as we speak, are heavily involved in pushing "Trad" gender norms, and are also behind the oppression of LGBTIQ+ people trying to live their lives freely without interference.
sards3@reddit
It seems like you are mad that some people, including some in the government, don't approve of LGBT people. That doesn't bother me, but I understand why you might be mad about it. But that is really not relevant to the point we were discussing: The US government does not, in fact, restrict individuals' choice of dress, appearance, or gender expression. Nor do religious groups infringe on personal freedoms. For example, it is true that there are some anti-gay churches. But gays can simply choose not to attend those churches, thereby maintaining their personal liberty.
Ted_Rid@reddit
I'm not mad, I'm explaining why the US would score lower than Australia on these topics.
We don't have church groups stacking school boards to remove books from libraries that mention non-trad gender or sexuality. The Library of Congress head librarian was sacked by the admin because of their collection, whose mandate is literally to collect every book published without fear or favour.
We don't have laws making people use particular bathrooms.
We don't have the federal government punishing states for not enforcing gender rules in sports, as happened famously in Maine.
We don't have religious governments passing laws allowing parents to challenge and remove books they don't like. Another example of restricting liberties by denying youth a chance to learn about different lifestyles.
These are all objective facts happening in the US as a concerted effort to suppress whatever they don't like on personal preferences regarding gender & sexuality.
Over here we had a national vote that endorsed same sex marriage with a whopping 2/3 majority and no politician or party has even tried to overturn that.
(There may be fringe nutcase parties that nobody votes for, idk. Ranked choice voting allows anyone with over a few thousand signatures to form a party).
Tullyswimmer@reddit
But, if Wikipedia is to be believed, your abortion laws are very similar to the US (no national level law, but state-level), with the big difference being that your least restrictive states are basically the standard set by our Roe v. Wade, and they're FAR more restrictive than our least restrictive states (abortion until the moment of birth, no questions asked, as a constitutional right).
Our left wing would say that you don't protect abortion rights because of that. Because to them, the only acceptable option is "until the moment of birth, no questions asked, as a constitutional right"
Y'all also literally arrested people and put them in camps for not taking the COVID shot, so...
Ted_Rid@reddit
I wouldn't put that much stock in that argument. Voluntary abortions (e.g. in case of rape or failed contraception) are typically done in the first trimester, by about week 6.
Those done by medical necessity (up to the point of birth) are a medical issue, not a legal one. Speaking of legalities, even when technically illegal on the books it wasn't enforced. At least not in recent decades.
I feel your "left wing position" is a bit of a strawman but probably aligned with the medical model where it's done if needed. We don't have women dying because doctors are too afraid to remove a dead and rotting foetus from them, for example.
Also LOL @ the concentration camps for the unvaxed. That's some straight out crazy talk. There are people out there spreading the weirdest rubbish, I swear.
I tried to find any info about this and it looks like a Facebook rumour based on a faked Channel 7 News report which they verified they never published. We did have a fortnight of quarantine for unvaxed overseas arrivals but as a former Prime Minister said "we will decide who comes to our country, and the conditions under which they come".
There was never anything like that for citizens in Australia and you can easily verify that from any reputable source you like. I can even put you in touch with a heap of unvaxed people who'll tell you it's pure BS.
Tullyswimmer@reddit
> I wouldn't put that much stock in that argument. Voluntary abortions (e.g. in case of rape or failed contraception) are typically done in the first trimester, by about week 6.
This is true in the US as well. And there are a handful of states that are super restrictive about it, but in the vast majority of states, this is legal.
>Those done by medical necessity (up to the point of birth) are a medical issue, not a legal one. Speaking of legalities, even when technically illegal on the books it wasn't enforced. At least not in recent decades.
No, see, in the least restrictive states in the US, you could go in at week 38 and say you want an abortion, without any medical reason, and they would have to do it. It's not a straw man. It's the actual law. Now, does that happen often? No. An entirely elective abortion at that point is extremely rare. But regardless, that's what our pro-abortion lobbies say is being "protected".
I live in a state where it's legal until 24 weeks, after that in cases of rape, incest, if the life of the mother is at risk, or the fetus isn't viable. And we were HAMMERED by political ads about how we needed to "protect abortion access" in our state - by making it legal until full term, and making it a constitutional right. It's not a straw man at all. This is what our left lobbies for.
>We don't have women dying because doctors are too afraid to remove a dead and rotting foetus from them, for example.
We don't either. Every case where that's been claimed has been misrepresented and is, to quote you, "straight out crazy talk". In no state is it illegal to remove a dead fetus. At any point. And no doctor would risk the malpractice lawsuit by claiming they weren't sure.
>I tried to find any info about this and it looks like a Facebook rumour based on a faked Channel 7 News report which they verified they never published.
I found several stories of people who were going from one state to another, within Australia, and forced into quarantine camps for two weeks.
It applied to domestic travelers as well, long into 2021:
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/20/world/australia/howard-springs-quarantine.html
You still had aboriginal people being put into them in 2022:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-03/camps-open-to-address-covid-affected-rough-sleepers/100798900
>There was never anything like that for citizens in Australia and you can easily verify that from any reputable source you lik
Really? Because a reputable source has a story about a citizen who was sent to a camp for traveling interstate within the country.
Ted_Rid@reddit
The strawman was where you claimed leftists want abortion until birth.
I checked the wiki page and it seems right. Elective abortions 16-24 weeks depending on state, but also any time thereafter if the doctors agree. So, until birth across the country.
Compared with 11 states where it's criminalised in the US. Haggling over the period of elective abortions doesn't change the fact that basically the whole south is in favour of forced childbirth, usually including for victims of incest and rape.
And women have died because of doctors afraid to perform medically necessary terminations. You can easily find that info.
Good find on the exceptional use of quarantine for interstate travel. Western Australia is thousands of miles from everywhere and had a stellar record of no lockdowns and virtually no COVID. Makes sense if the very few people who ignored the rule to stay out of WA were quarantined.
Not sure why your kinds of people keep harping back to those days anyway. It was years ago, it's been and gone, and we came through it the 3rd best globally after Taiwan and New Zealand. Only the most baked of cookers holds any kind of serious grudge about the sensible measures taken as if it represents anything except a response to a moment in time crisis.
Quarantine is something we all agree with. Try bringing a dog into the country, or fresh food.
It's not like rounding people up and sending them to a camp which was what your claim first sounded like. Border crossing quarantine is fine. It's a perfect example of where individuals should be free up to the point where they risk harming others, and bringing a highly contagious and deadly virus into a virus free state is a textbook example of where to draw the line.
Majsharan@reddit
Protection from domestic violence is code for gun control
demoldbones@reddit
Also code for are there social programs that will help women escape a DV situation if needed.
Ted_Rid@reddit
Is it? I would assume domestic violence involving guns goes by the name of murder, not DV.
We recently legislated paid leave from work if a victim of DV needs time to relocate. There are also systems like AVOs (Apprehended Violence Orders) which aren't always that effective, but basically a court order against the perpetrator approaching the victim. Probably the US has similar injunctions.
There are also systems of shelters, and assistance in creating new identities.
Not everything is always about guns all the time.
Majsharan@reddit
Maybe not in this case but I have seen lack of universal healthcare, “lax” gun control laws (or coding something for this) and other such things as used as reasons is is less free also don’t forget the electoral college. ( although France has a very similar system.
Ted_Rid@reddit
Could be. Can't comment on that. I like looking behind charts and stuff to see the methodologies instead of reacting to the info on the face of it, so would try and do the same if a different rating system was being discussed.
I'm sure you're right and access to healthcare is factored into some of them. Have definitely seen it in things like Human Development indices.
madbuilder@reddit
As someone living under socialized medicine, I worry a lot about finding a doctor. A lot of Canadians are afraid to move to the next town 50 miles away. If your doctor finds out you moved, you have to get on a wait list for a new one.
brezhnervouz@reddit
🤣
I have 16 lol
Accomplished-Row439@reddit
You can't even play airsoft or have gel blasters in WA
brezhnervouz@reddit
WA does have some batshit crazy laws on empty brass lol
And if you travel there for a competition its like going to another fucking country re paperwork
Think-Aerie-9571@reddit
The military just took control of our nation's capital...
Minarchist15@reddit
Yea I dont buy it, i dont think we can trust the freedom index.
AusCan531@reddit
Here's a clue GUNS ≠ FREEDOM. Weird, I know.
pametnaosoba@reddit (OP)
So when government doesn't allow you to have something, you have more freedom than when government allows you to have something? Also, I didn't say that only guns are freedom but it is generally good representation of freedom
Potential-Ice8152@reddit
We are allowed to have guns. It’s not hard to google
AusCan531@reddit
"Also, I didn't say that only guns are freedom but it is generally good representation of freedom" you guys are going to LOVE Somalia...
taubs1@reddit
or Canada who debanked the truckers, Uk who ppl get arrested for posting online.
madbuilder@reddit
They debanked anyone who gave $50 for them to buy hot meals in the dead of winter. In Ottawa the nights go down to -20 C.
iamdecal@reddit
counterpoint - what the hell is "jaywalking" all about ?
Phantom_316@reddit
And that one lady who got arrested for praying in her head in the wrong spot or those families who were told it’s illegal to pray in their own homes because they live within an arbitrary circle of an abortion clinic
IdeaReceiver@reddit
That's as cheap as the dickhead who claimed he was detained just for the JD Vance meme on his phone. Read into a situation past the headline one day
YourWarDaddy@reddit
Also have no real freedom of speech and have the power to fine you for not having the correct language displayed in your store (looking at you Quebec)
Brawndo_or_Water@reddit
I'm Canadian living in Mexico now, there's something wrong with that map. I can get away with all kind of crap in Mexico that I would not dare doing in Canada, the government is way less intrusive.
madbuilder@reddit
Like what? I've had enough of this crap. We're now arresting people for going for a walk.
AdubThePointReckoner@reddit
I think people tend to focus primarily on the written law, as opposed to what's practically applied. Many countries have stricter laws on the books than the US, but simply don't have the time to enforce anything other than major crimes, so it feels freer. Meanwhile, in the US, law enforcement has so much money they do things like double checking the dates stamps on whistles when out boating. So it comes across as very oppressive.
Tullyswimmer@reddit
Well, for this one they DID focus on the practical application (as well as "nonstate actors") extensively for the US:
https://freedomhouse.org/country/united-states/freedom-world/2025
They didn't feel it necessary to go into the same sort of detail for Australia:
https://freedomhouse.org/country/australia/freedom-world/2025
madbuilder@reddit
Now, who was it that confiscated all guns? That built those COVID concentration camps in 2021? That denies the right to protest the government for redress of grievances?
> "The short answer is we don't have a right to protest in our constitution. There isn't a law we can point to at the federal or state level that says everyone has a right to protest," University of South Australia associate professor Sarah Moulds said.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-14/protesting-explainer-demonstration-rally-laws-police/103625424
Diarmundy@reddit
I mean is this a joke?
If you try to protest the wrong thing in the US the govt will send in the national guard or marines to shut your protest down.
The courts are controlled by the executive and the president has literal immunity.
Sure you can own a gun but the US is currently run like a dictatorship
pametnaosoba@reddit (OP)
These statistics are from 2021. Also, isn't owning a gun one of the highest level of freedom you can have?
Potential-Ice8152@reddit
Everyone has a different definition of freedom which is why indexes like this don’t work. Australians don’t think the highest level of freedom is being able to own as many guns as you please.
By your logic, wouldn’t being able to create bombs be an even higher level of freedom?
fa-jita@reddit
Why do you assume that everyone agrees that gun ownership = freedom.
My idea of freedom is being able to live my life without my government telling me what gender I have to be, whether I have to keep a pregnancy, or what history I’m allowed to display or teach.
But sure, keep your guns.
afewroosloose@reddit
id rather not have to pay a million dollars just to see a doctor than have a gun
easyjo@reddit
Sure, owning a gun is peak freedom, right up there with the freedom to go bankrupt from a medical emergency.
Any_Pudding_1812@reddit
i’m aussie. in western australia i don’t think we had even a fortnight lockdown. I don’t remember any and if we did i guess everyone ignored. melbourne had the long lockdown. other side of the country to me.
we have strict gun laws after port arthur massacre. i’ve never owned or wanted to own a gun. homocide rates are significantly lower here than in the states regardless of gun laws.
i don’t know how to calculate freedom.
not sticking up for australia. in many ways it’s shit. but i do feel safer here than when i’ve been in the states despite all our dangerous ( non human ) animals.
Robertos1987@reddit
Lmfao you liar. In an Aussie. WA had super stringent lockdowns for a long time. Interesting that youd lie about that.
Potential-Ice8152@reddit
IIRC the longest internal lockdown we had was like a week.
Any_Pudding_1812@reddit
haha when ?
CertainCertainties@reddit
In South Australia it was awesome during covid.
Closed the borders so hardly anyone died, could go anywhere safely. With no tourists we could experience our own world class seafood, wine and artisan produce at affordable prices. Parrots, kookaburras and koalas in the trees, it was pretty much close to paradise.
Then we had to let the world back in. Buggar. Still, can't complain. In the US at least 1.2 million people died before they stopped counting. Where I live, no one I have ever met knew of someone who died of covid.
Any_Pudding_1812@reddit
much like Western Australia. :).
bownt1@reddit
you say "fort night" and dont understand the purpose of a gun. why are you here?
TimosaurusRexabus@reddit
A fortnight is 2 weeks. Not sure if you were being argumentative.
Any_Pudding_1812@reddit
i understand the purpose. just never wanted one myself. If that’s a computer game reference. i dont play them, but have heard of that game.
AusCan531@reddit
"During COVID, Australian citizens were locked in their homes like prisoners..."
Oh, the HUMANITY!
BTW, as of Dec 2024 the US had 3,541 Confirmed Covid Deaths per million while Australia had 963.
During COVID, United States citizens were buried in their homes like, well, corpses...
sards3@reddit
We are discussing freedom rankings, not health rankings. The number of people dying from COVID is not relevant to a discussion of freedom.
Your sarcasm indicates that you... do NOT think locking people in their homes like prisoners is a serious violation of individual liberty?
Potential-Ice8152@reddit
At least we’re alive
AusCan531@reddit
Hmm, you may have a point. I'd love to come over and discuss the topic more in-depth with you. I've currently got TB and Ebola, - but I'm sure you're cool with that.
ALSO
ValarValentine@reddit
Australian here, no idea how this post came into my feed but OPs comments are wildly inaccurate and probably come from American media.
"Toy" guns are sold absolutely everywhere. Actual plastic children's toys are at every dollar store or kids toy store. Cowboy kits and SWAT kits are very popular with little boys. If you mean like BB guns, obviously not. Who cares.
UK needs a license for everything, not Australia. We have the same license laws as America does.
We were not locked into our homes like prisoners. That's bizzare American media shit. It was a country wide lockdown for non-essential employees for like a month. You were allowed out to exercise and walk around, grocery stores were open, servos were open, delivery drivers were open, hospitals were open, the government gave everyone a huge covid payment as well as full time equivalent wages for free.
There are more guns in circulation in Australia today than prior to Port Arthur. Anyone who owns land over a specified hectare measurement can get a gun without question, anyone who doesn't can get a gun as long as you attend clubs regularly, even if you don't you just need sufficient reason and protection on it and you're fine.
The only negative thing against our freedom that would be measured is NSWPOL are all protected paedos, VICPOL are all protected Nazis, and the government hates freedom of speech, but they continually fail to do anything to stop it so that part doesn't actually matter. The mining industry runs out country, our government sells our natural resources for pennies on the dollar to foreign countries, and half our government are either fucking insane idiots or part of a cult.
I have no idea where you people are getting information but you need to google stuff first.
Potential-Ice8152@reddit
Joe Blow being able to guy a gun at Kmart is apparently the benchmark for freedom
Any_Pudding_1812@reddit
but youtube told me…../s
Acrobatic_Mud_2989@reddit
🏆
PinkoPrepper@reddit
Does Australia have martial law in its capital city?
guidedhand@reddit
Americans could be in a fully fascist dictatorship and still themselves the most free so long as they could still own a gun.
ImFeklhr@reddit
Americans could be in not fascist at all republic and opponents of the current ruling party would still claim it was a fascist dictatorship. Of course those people have been engaging in a form of nonstop condemnation via exaggerated or even false labeling for 20-30 years. In fact the method has become so repetitive and hysterical and frankly lazy I have to imagine any independent mind views it as a 'boy who cried wolf' on steroids.
guidedhand@reddit
We haven't seen the wolf yet, but we've heard it and seen it's footprints.
ImFeklhr@reddit
Oh ok. Everytime I google Fascism and look at the key characteristics. It's a chain of nope nope nope, thats not happening here . Are the footprints the violent suppression of all opposition? The cancelation of elections or increasing expansion via military conquest? Just remember one of the maint characteristics that makeup a fascist is not "someone I don't like"
guidedhand@reddit
Well the intimidation of political opponents by sending an armed group to Gavin newsoms press conference is pretty on brand for fascism (direct suppression of freedom of speech). The delegitimisation of the media is straight from the nazi playbook (there's also restriction of free press with what's going on with the white house press room). Scapegoating certain ethnic groups for national problems. The list is honestly massive and we'll documented; but the list I find really funny is how well aligned trump is with the signs of the literal anti christ. The list I'm more concerned about is the Epstein list that trump is on, and why he was moving Maxwell to minimum security, his staff having private meetings with her, and why he pardoned Jan 6ers who beat and tazed a cop till he was hospitalized. All that does is encourage your own militia of vigilantes.
pametnaosoba@reddit (OP)
If it was really dictatorship, you wouldn't be allowed to have a gun. First way to achieve a dictatorship is to make sure all your citizens are unarmed so you can easier control them
Sea_Gap_6137@reddit
I would say using federal arms to take over Washington under the guise of "rampant crime" is pretty authoritarian...same as ignoring judges, deporting citizens, investigating his opponents and having FBI agents terminated for investigating him.
Why would he take your guns when next to nobody brought them on Jan 6.
An easier way to control the folk is through control of media and the use of propaganda to divide people...such as suing various media outlets for perceived inaccuracies or biases, using position as president to pressure outlets he dislikes by interfering in their business operations, launching investigations, and threatening to revoke broadcast licenses or funding for public broadcasting. All this while having K Leavvit constantly spruik utter shiite and attempt to shame and belittle journalists who try to hold government to account.
The US is so divided it's a fucking shit-show Circus.
IdeaReceiver@reddit
Freedom, safety, and civilized society means a lot more than slinging guns around, fuckwit. Can you imagine ten year olds free to go to school in the morning without having their lessons interrupted by school shooter drills? That's what real freedom looks like. Freedom from guns, and freedom for a pregnant woman to have emergency care regardless of whether it might pose a danger to the baby and be classed as an illegal abortion, are both important freedoms too. Y'all are not more free for having armed bodyguards in children's classrooms, that's what a dictatorship looks like.
Your president raped children and is actively covering it up. They don't give a rat's ass whether you have a gun in the trunk or not, you're easily controlled and you'll believe what you're told.
guidedhand@reddit
Belarus is the last main dictatorship in Europe other than Russia, and has the largest gun ownership rates in eastern europe
Any_Pudding_1812@reddit
haha yep. but…but…. guns!
PapiJohnPizzaParlor@reddit
Imagine my shock when I found out it’s an American organization in DC mostly funded by none other than the American government itself. The original writer when freedom house founded the “Freedom in the world” arrived said on record he citied its sources of freedom from “hunches and intuitions” and not any actual science.
https://www.influencewatch.org/non-profit/freedom-house/
nate_rausch@reddit
Its Freedom Houses index
Its not terrible, its not like an anti-freedom index or anything like that. But it does have a point of view that you likely wont agree with:
For example
- It considers the multiparty system to be the optimal
- It considers secularism optimal, so more religous gets downgraded
- It some progressive "freedoms" as good, including access to abortion, gender identity recognition etc (and currently scores the US lower on these)
- It counts open border as freedom
- It counts high presence of NGOs, including of the progressive sort as good
I should say these are the exceptions, most of the rest is likely what you would consider freedom, including things like free speech absolutism, free markets, private property, etc.
realdeal505@reddit
If you make an index, you can define things how you want to (similar to fact checkers)
The OEIC happiness index does this every year. It essentially promotes ever pro leftist position and says a country is happy if you have universal public for health care, have laws that target their definition of "hate speech", country allows mass migration, gun control etc
MannyBothans_15@reddit
Wrong map is wrong.
Alterangel182@reddit
Is this the Economic Freedom Index?
PunkCPA@reddit
"Positive" rights (the government takes stuff from other people and gives stuff to you) versus "negative" rights (everyone, including the government, stays the fuck out of your hair).
Miserable_Layer_8679@reddit
This is liberal slop, the entire E.U is has insane levels of censorship and the U.S is somehow on the same level as Brazil
MeFunGuy@reddit
I agree mostly, but considering that many us states are pushing for tighter control and restrictions on freedom of expression, like texas (my state),
The usa in 2025 is getting less free id say.
Tullyswimmer@reddit
I would agree that the US has, as of late, been getting less free in some ways.
But to say it's below countries where you can be arrested and sentenced to years in prison for facebook posts... That's kind of insane.
mhoke63@reddit
You're moving the goal post all over the place and putting arbitrary measures on how to define freedom. Meanwhile the freedom index uses established standards.
You, yourself, might have freedom in America, but not everyone has that same level of freedom that you do. That's kind of the point why the US has lower freedom. There are different classes of people, might be separated by economic class, racial class, or any number of things that give privilege over others.
I'm gonna go ahead and predict that you're gonna say stuff about how upward mobility is a choice and everyone can get out of economic squealer if they just work hard enough. Then, I'll explain how that is exactly not the case and it'll just be back and forth like that.
The best description of libertarianism I've ever heard is this:
YourWarDaddy@reddit
Economic Equality isn’t freedom.
mhoke63@reddit
So, you're saying that people at economic disadvantages is better because that is freedom? The people at that disadvantage would disagree with you on that.
Do you ever think that you could be among those that are in the lower class, part of economic subjugation? Of course not. If you had the slightest bit of empathy, you wouldn't be a libertarian. Society only works with a population that has empathy and care for those that are at disadvantages. An economic free-for-all only ends up in systemic failure.
YourWarDaddy@reddit
Brother, I’m American. I lived in a dump above a bar working 3 different jobs making under 25k a year total deciding whether to put gas in my car or buy a pizza from domino’s that I could nurse for the next 2 days.
I clawed my way up to where I am now and guess what? I’m still making under 65k a year. But I’ll be fucking damned if the government steps in and says that some lazy unambitious cunt gets boosted up to my economic level due to hand outs when the rest of us had to put in maximum effort for years of our lives just to get to a point where we don’t have to worry about going out to dinner once a week.
I grew up in poverty, the friends and coworkers I’ve had through the years that stayed there are all the same. They prioritize care free living. And that is their Freedom to do so.
What you advocate for is socialism/communism. Where people that make more than me are brought down to my level directly reducing their own freedom.
You don’t want to put the work in to better yourself and your financial position, then don’t complain about money.
FertilisedEggs@reddit
I had it shit so every other cunt should have it shit. Great thinking. If you grew up a pov cunt, you'd think you wouldn't want others to go through that. Your economic level is fuck all at 65K anyway so who cares
Optimal_Tomato726@reddit
Right? That this thread which OP has been shared to other subs, originated in a libertarian sub speaks to how baked their ideas are. Whaddayamean they got freedums down there? And criticising laws that enable equity and increase access to freedom to restrain those who will abuse powers because it's all they are bothered to understand whilst yelling at clouds.
BigAl265@reddit
And progressivism is popular because it let’s you be a victim and blame all your problems on everyone else.
Miserable_Layer_8679@reddit
So let me guess, you aren’t libertarian
demoldbones@reddit
I mean, the White House has pretty much banned any non-conservative media outlets from attending briefings or being able to ask the president questions, would you not consider THAT censorship?
AusCan531@reddit
Do the facts hurt your feelings? Tell you what, here's a list https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_freedom_indices of Freedom Indices. Find one where Australia / New Zealand, etc DON'T rank higher than the US. On the other hand, if you don't want to give up your biases based upon lifelong propaganda, don't bother and just call it 'FAKE NEWS'.
tayto@reddit
I mean, if this is the scoring, then it’s not exactly something worth taking seriously.
“Do laws, policies, and practices guarantee equal treatment of various segments of the population?
US = 2 / 4”
ThatsAScientificFact@reddit
I can see the argument for it being a 3/4, but I think 2/4 isn't way off base because the justice system in the US does not treat people equally at all.
neogeek23@reddit
Yeah this place is definitely more free than the US
https://youtu.be/hhuEQ8kAkqw?si=Lao3E0Up24pXtAHE
Absolutely. 100%. Definitely the more free place to ~leave~ live.
Responsible-Gear-400@reddit
It is cute that this is all people can use when calling out Australia. Which by the way the people in Australia who didn’t agree protested. Most Australians sucked it up… while sitting at the beach.
neogeek23@reddit
Yeah, how'd that go for you all?
https://youtu.be/okDIo5bSwE8?si=WLLD6yZDCfQhmJ7e
As if this is all anyone could find. This was about 20 seconds of effort... I wonder what could be found in 20 minutes?
Ted_Rid@reddit
Pretty well actually. There's a beautiful harbourside walking / running / cycle track near me and I've never seen as many groups of friends and family out enjoying the outdoors there as during "lockdowns". Maybe as an alternative to pubs, clubs, and restaurants. Never saw any issues or overhanded policing. Nor did I experience it myself, heading up the road for some supermarket shopping, going for a run or a bike ride, driving across town to visit my parents, etc.
You're basically falling for "if it bleeds, it leads". Nobody's publishing and promoting videos of peace and calm.
pistola@reddit
It's so fucking hilarious that a deadshit American uses these two videos as the ultimate evidence of Australian 'freedom'.
Hey, as long as you've got your guns, you're the most free, right?
TaxAg11@reddit
You do realize that indices like these are inherently subjective, right? Someone had to choose the factors that are included in the indices, had to choose how to assign a quantitative measurements to these qualitative factors, and had to choose how to weigh each factor against the others. The only "fact" is that someone created these. That doesn't make the indices necessarily true.
Miserable_Layer_8679@reddit
That’s my point, this isn’t measurable
AusCan531@reddit
Unless the USA is NUMBER ONE!!! Then it's legit.
suphomess@reddit
Why the hell is UK green when they arrest people for calling people fat etc online lmao. This index must be at least a decade old
iroll20s@reddit
The uk is a police state at this point.
SeaSquirrel@reddit
Their military doesn’t roam from city to city to “clean up crime”?
Among like 100 other things. Theres more to freedom than guns
InfinitySupreme@reddit
The Freedom Index is published by freedom-hating statists.
straygeologist@reddit
Uh, because Americans keep voting for authoritarians because "the other side is worse"?
lastwindows@reddit
The introduction of Corporate Democrat Socialism in the past two decades coupled with the massive propaganda media unleashed on U.S. citizenry since Mr. Obama's signing of HR 4310 in 2012 have created a situation not unlike Rome after the fall of the Republic.
Virel_360@reddit
After the way their government handled Covid locking all of their citizens on the island not allowing them to leave vaccinated or not. I call bullshit on their freedom level lol
Renmarkable@reddit
In Australia most of us had 2 years almost covid free while we watched the world implode.
The HORROR
Accomplished-Row439@reddit
Freedom of movement?
Renmarkable@reddit
Also freedom from covid
Accomplished-Row439@reddit
Didn't stop it from spreading quickly. The economic repercussions were quite severe with high inflation from the "free money". It was also only really dangerous for the vulnerable and not life threatening for the majority. Did you want a policy like china's covid measures?
Renmarkable@reddit
It absolutely did stop it from spreading quickly.
For almost 2 years we were very covid free.
Your asking the wrong person
Im ND, I can't unsee the data.
We now know just how bad the long term harm covid does
RACGP - How COVID-19 leaves its mark on the brain https://share.google/m9dL78EyV56QLXWIj
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-02-28/long-term-health-impacts-covid-19-hospitalisation/104994058?utm_source=abc_news_app&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_campaign=abc_news_app&utm_content=other
We know it damages every system. We know the damage it does is being compared more and more to the harm HIV does
What do I want?
The right to access safe healthcare.
Masking health care settings AT A MIMINUM
We dont accept dirty water, we shouldn't accept dirty air.
My family are happily still novids to the best of our knowledge.
We mask.
Tbe very fact that China with its complete lack of regard for people takes covid so seriously should raise huge alarm bells
Interestingly Grok agrees
Accomplished-Row439@reddit
China only did the lockdowns for control, it's something the CCP desire. I do agree that safe healthcare is vital though and the masking at hospitals, doctors, and elderly homes
finetune137@reddit
By definition, if there's a state - there's no freedom. It can allow some toys for citizens but as long as they are pacified enough not to use those toys against state, it's all good and shabby
Ab1ogenisis@reddit
No egregious gerrymandering relative to the US
arjuna93@reddit
Given what government did during scamdemic in AU and NZ, this rating is a joke.
wilmaismyhomegirl83@reddit
Is this a joke?
Renmarkable@reddit
Because I won't be dragged off the street by masked armed men for writing an op ed.
svullenballe@reddit
Right? Like the us is a faschist fucking plotocracy!
AusCan531@reddit
Glad you're safe.
https://packaged-media.redd.it/2d5osialw3jf1/pb/m2-res_946p.mp4?m=DASHPlaylist.mpd&v=1&e=1755244800&s=5cf6f6daf0bd980b6981a54596d6c1618b4d3fe2
Renmarkable@reddit
Can't open it?
1bird2birds3birds4@reddit
Error 403 Forbidden?
BigBlueMan118@reddit
Holly Shit. American is fucked.
Sierra17181928@reddit
It's easy to see who is addicted to Fox "News" here. Lol.
Ingeegoodbee@reddit
'Congress shall make no law . . . ', my Australian understanding of American free speech is that it is very, very limited. You can say what you like about politicians and not be punished. But what if you told your boss, or anyone with power over you, to GAGF? A DoJ employee just lost his job for assaulting a federal agent with a sandwich, shouldn't he be protected under both 1A & 2A?
sards3@reddit
You seem very confused about what the 1A and 2A are. The first amendment protects freedom of speech, press, and religion. It does not protect assault with a sandwich. The second amendment protects the right to "bear arms" (possess weapons). It does not protect the right to assault people.
Internal_Form4341@reddit
Americans thinking guns = freedom but are too chicken shit to use them now that they’re being taken over by a would be dictator
ManufacturerPublic@reddit
Ouch, that one stings
SpeakUpOhShutUp@reddit
Yeah, how ignorant people are to think Australia is "more free" than the USA. You just have to go back to Covid to see how the government treated its people.
Sierra17181928@reddit
We don't have to worry about police showing up if we criticise our leader.
We don't check international visitors' social media accounts at immigration and deport those we don't like.
The USA is a police state. it's just that some of you are still blind to it.
Open your eyes and look around. You are living in a dictatorship.
Techtragic@reddit
Keeping them alive you mean? 😉
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
[removed]
Blossom_AU@reddit
PS:
There is surprisingly little you are not ALLOWED(!) to own in AU:
Sure can have hunting rifles, air rifles, flash guns, ……
Heaps of people I know own guns.
It’s just that we have checks so the crazy people do not get them. You know, the vaccine denying crazies who kill officers doing a welfare check, Neonazis, etc.
Why TF you believe we can’t own toy guns is beyond me, of course we can and do!
I have NEVER been locked in my home!
And on a generous suburban block, a huge house, a pool long enough to do laps …..
Haven’t seen any of our neighbours since 2022. Unless we are driving: Walking out the door I see heaps more tops than humans!
We have public music festival, movie theatres, theatre, ….. it was all operating from mid 2020 to mid 2021, at the height of the pandemic! 😊
August 2021 we went into lockdown. We were still allowed to go out!
We LOOOOOVED the lockdown!
He did not have to go to work AND was getting paid! We broke the bed within the first week, reenforced the wooden frame with metal. My youngest sister, young enough she could be my daughter: All the way in South Africa she was laughing her ass off about our bed-oopsie! 😂
For all we care the lockdown could’ve gone on forever, we never ran out of fun activities …… 😉
NOBODY where I am has ever been locked in their houses against their will.
Well, actually, yes: In 2014 the people returning from fighting Ebola outbreak. They were locked into luxurious and pricey lakeside apartments. If you believe ensuring we do not have an Ebola outbreak real in AU had made them ‘prisoners’ ….. you are some whackadoodle loony! 😲
Think you might wanna consider … ’fun’ activities?
You sound way too tightly wound, like you’d benefit from relaxing ….?
Cheers! 🫶🏽
Why TG would you believe I had been a prisoner, or could not do ot own the things your claim I couldn’t ….
I think your Q is easiest answered by:
”Just because it sounds right echoing inside your own skull does not make it true …”
Whatever conspiracy group is feeding you your knowledge: Not a reputable source!
Funnily enough, no one of your BS has ever applied to me. And I have not left AU since 2007.
Cheers! 🫶🏽
poega@reddit
Higher salaries and democracy is my guess
19Eightiesman@reddit
Do you really need to ask this?
We have the freedom to know that our elected leader is not guilty of 30 something criminal convictions.
We know that our PM does not treat international relations as a financial transaction.
We know that our society, (for the most part), will try and take care of those in need.
We have the freedom to walk in the street without masked men with automatic weapons asking us who we are and where we are going.
We have the freedom to get sick, ride in an ambulance and get medical treatment without having to choose if our kids eat for the next 6 months.
We have the freedom to know that our kids will come home from school and not be the victim of some disenchanted malcontent with an assault rifle.
We know for the most part that our voices are heard at elections because over 90% of the electorate votes at elections.
We have the freedom to speak our mind without fear of being litigate to our death by someone with more money than we do.
We have the freedom to be paid appropriately for our work without having to rely on the kindness of strangers in order to eat.
Yes, I am an Australian.
And proud of it.
(Rant ends...)
redterror5@reddit
I mean, a great indicator of freedom in the most literal sense is incarceration rate. And the US ranks very, very poorly on this scale.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate?wprov=sfti1#
danath34@reddit
Lol and Canada too?? This is farce
Ya_Boi_Konzon@reddit
All these indexes are just political tools. They're kinda like the Grammys.
ChaosToTheFly123@reddit
I work for a company that pays good money to get all the employee of choice awards lol
Pit-Smoker@reddit
Really,? All of them? That is fascinating. My companies (that gave a damn about such ""wins" ) would simply egregiously encourage us to fill out the form.
Are you willing to divulge the name?
cerberus_1@reddit
This exactly..
USA - Are you free? "Na, man I cant own a fully automatic rifle without a permit"
Europe - Are you free? "absolutely, as long as I stay off Facebook I'm allowed to eat bacon 5 days a week!"
Plankton_Brave@reddit
By those metrics China should be the most free country in the world.
AusCan531@reddit
Because it's a straw man argument with no connection to reality.
B-ILL2@reddit
According to Reddit it is.
cerberus_1@reddit
Lost-Pea6030@reddit
Seriously, I've never given any of these a second thought lol
AusCan531@reddit
That's the way!
DigDog19@reddit
Yep, well stated.
NullIsUndefined@reddit
In other words fake and gay
SerpoDirect@reddit
It is actually a very delicate process using a specialized set of tools whereby the authors pull the data straight out of their ass.
PatN007@reddit
But gently and slowly
choulth@reddit
Or Germany. In no way has Germany "more freedom" than the US.
MessyHouses@reddit
And Canada??
EmFan1999@reddit
Because the US is far from free my friend
Responsible-Gear-400@reddit
Australia you can own a gun. It is just harder to get a gun. You have to prove you’re a responsible owner.
Australians were not locked in their homes as prisoners. Yes they were asked to stay at home, but also were allowed outside as long as there was social distancing being done and it in large groups. And unlike in the states due it. Covid Aussies were allowed at things like the beach.
Despite what Americans believe, they are often not very free and are quite limited in their freedom. Australia has lower incarceration rates, nearly no mass shootings, better economic mobility, better life expectancy, better freedom of press, and better healthcare outcomes. That is just off the top of my head.
But yeah guns are really the only good measure of freedom.
Robertos1987@reddit
Wow. What a short memory you have. Conveniently forgot that you couldnt even LEAVE your house for a period of time without a certificate stating you were an essential worker? Better freedom of press? Is this for real? You realise we have NO protected freedom of expression? What about whistleblower protections? If you work at a detention centre and are a whistleblower exposing inhumane treatment you face up to two years in jail. What freedoms do we have that people in the U.S dont?
Ted_Rid@reddit
>Conveniently forgot that you couldnt even LEAVE your house for a period of time without a certificate stating you were an essential worker?
Certainly never the case in Sydney. Remember, different States ran their own shows so it's not really possible to generalise nationally. We basically had "encouraged to stay home, but if going out please socially distance".
Going out could be justified for reasons like personal exercise or shopping. Which effectively means you could go out whenever you wanted because everything is justifiably personal exercise for example.
Robertos1987@reddit
....again a COMPLETE LIE. I live in Sydney. I was considered an essential worker, this absolutely happened. Yet you lie. So what else are you lying about?
What about the fact police could come into your house at will to see if you had anyone over? No warrant needed? Encouraged to stay home? Are you kidding? Again, ALL lies. Here is, directly from the NSW government, just some proof that this guy is completely deceptive and is just straight up lying.
https://www.api.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/NSW-Authorised-workers.pdf
Ted_Rid@reddit
I also live in Sydney and could leave home whenever I wanted. Whatever your situation as an essential worker, I don't know because I wouldn't fit that definition.
It does indicate to me that you're not aware of what restrictions pertained to other people.
As stated, legit reasons for leaving home included personal exercise, shopping, or even delivering essential care packages to people. I used to drive across the city with bags of tasty food for my parents.
Any time I wanted to leave home all I had to do was carry one of those thin collapsible bags you can stuff in your pocket. If asked "I'm going shopping". I PASSED POLICE DOING THIS AND WAVED AND SAID HELLO AND THEY DIDN'T GIVE A SHIT.
Reviewing your linked document I see the difference. I'm in the Inner West LGA. Your document only applies to the worst-hit areas in Western Sydney. And it doesn't apply to not being able to leave your home.
It's about leaving your Local Government Area. You know what that is, right? It's an entire fucking council area. I can walk almost an hour in any direction and not leave mine, and that would be counted as personal exercise.
There was no lying in my statement, you are shifting the goalposts from "leaving home" to "travelling across the city" which is a pretty fucking huge city in case you'd never noticed.
W_Smith_19_84@reddit
There are multiple videos of your police beating and choking people in the street for not wearing masks... (this woman even had a medical exemption)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39---Rf-aVA
Ingeegoodbee@reddit
lol, the people refusing to wear masks here are the same people who believe The Lizard People run the government, they are the 1% of the 1%, and would have gone out of their way to provoke the police, who managed the situation without shooting them dead.
jcutta@reddit
Talking about police beating people is probably not the argument to use if you're American... Especially when what is currently happening in DC is happening.
Responsible-Gear-400@reddit
Soooo you are going to use that but ignore all of that happening in the states?
W_Smith_19_84@reddit
Nope. I don't like the overly aggressive, overly militarized police in the US either. But don't try to ignore, or pretend like you guys didn't have brutal lockdowns over there.
Responsible-Gear-400@reddit
We don’t ignore we. We had protests about it. But yeah make sure to only believe what Fox News is feeding you.
W_Smith_19_84@reddit
We're talking about the government here, not the people. Yeah the people are angry about it, which makes it even more infuriating that the government and the media ignore and suppress the story, and usually give the rapists and slap on the wrist.
DefamedPrawn@reddit
And there are no videos of police brutality in the United States?
lost_aussie001@reddit
As a Aussie who lived in NZ, China & UK. As well as visiting the US & having travelled to more than 10 other countries:
hblok@reddit
None of those have anything to do with freedom.
inutilbasura@reddit
in these terms, you can reword any government restriction as freedom. take censorship “I have the freedom to live my life without being offended” come on
rasungod0@reddit
It is an elitist club where they pat each other on the back.
DoctorTim007@reddit
You know its fake when greenland isnt labeled as "no data"
DoctorTim007@reddit
I just saw a video of cops in the UK performing a warrantless search of someones property against their will.... that is the opposite of freedom.
testman22@reddit
Such "indexes" vary greatly depending on their definition. However, America has an unusually high prison population, so in a sense there is no freedom. Their social systems actively oppress the poor.
peanutbuggered@reddit
Free Tibet!
Wise_Ad_1026@reddit
Bars
AgeOfReasonEnds31120@reddit
How is it possible that GERMANY has a higher freedom index!? It should be in the yellow.
Optimal_Tomato726@reddit
Australia is currently welcoming of people who criticise our government fairly and reasonably. USA is blocking access to foreigners who post memes
DJMikaMikes@reddit
Fairly and reasonably are very elastic and subjective terms that allow for selective enforcement. Granted, every single country's laws are stuffed with that language, but it's particularly sketchy when it's tied to speech, which should be one of the most hard lined things around.
US selectively blocking foreigner access is their right, but basing it on whether the person has posted memes that criticize another country, not even the US, is absolutely disgusting.
olmek7@reddit
Have you seen what our president has been doing?
WinterYak1933@reddit
Total bullshit. Europeans measure their "freedom" in how much "free" stuff does the daddy government give me? Oh, and how much does it "protect" me from my employer (and make the company want to leave the country).
Ticky009@reddit
FFS - let's clear up the misconception that Aussies have been pointing out for years.
We have guns. We have lots of guns. We just have different rules and regulations on the type and access to those guns. That's all.
But guns don't indicate Freedom. Other social and economic issues play a much more important role in it.
dellyj2@reddit
Most sensible answer I have seen here so far.
castingcoucher123@reddit
The y ignore that left 4 dead couldn't be played in Oz
DesmondoTheFugitive@reddit
There it is! A lot of comments about guns. But more people have guns (To my knowledge) today than after Port Arthur. But for fun, look up “Freedom of Speech” in Australia. It will blow your mind. I often ask myself how well that worked out during Covid with petty tyrants regulating the amount of fun I could have playing pickle ball.
castingcoucher123@reddit
Their government dick was so hard to round up those that 'dissent' from the group. All of a sudden those rebels against The Man are willing to ride the whip so quick
DesmondoTheFugitive@reddit
Didgeri-dissent FTFY.
Alfalfa_Bravo@reddit
That’s BS. All of Europe and Canada is ranked higher. They don’t have guns and their freedom of speech is a joke.
Reebtog@reddit
"How is the freedom index actually calculated?" That's my question too.
I mean, you guys have a particular foreign nation who siphons billions of US taxpayers money every year, and laws in place to make it illegal to 'boycott' them. And if you wanted to change those laws you'd need to appeal to your politicians, who happen to all be deeply intertwined with that particular foreign nation's very active lobby group (except Thomas Massie, bravo).
And Australia has no guns and find themselves in a similar position - politicians don't have the citizen's best interests at heart and nobody has any real recourse to change things.
Optimal_Tomato726@reddit
Australians wishing you'd put your firearms to good use to displace tyranny and protect civilians, to restore basic social decency rather than billionaires removing democratic freedoms, and militia terrorising foreigners, BIPOC and the vulnerable.
Australians use peaceful protest and media to pressure flubberments. We can talk to our local representatives and seek their supports but we can condemn and criticise then without retribution.
phido3000@reddit
https://australiainstitute.org.au/post/australias-gun-ownership-scorecard-a-growing-problem-in-need-of-reform/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooters,_Fishers_and_Farmers_Party
Australia has guns. The average gun owner has 4 guns. Australia has a political party based around gun ownership (and fishing). Ensuring to preserve those rights, safely.
Owning a gun, or 4 or 100 guns doesn't make you more free and isn't an effective way of deterring governments from infringing on your rights and freedoms.
Active voting is.
Australia is a big open place. And generally has significant freedoms. Yes, over regulation is a thing, however, almost everyone now agrees that we need less regulation in our personal lives. Each state in Australia has different sense of regulation. Queensland and NT are pretty unregulated, libertarian ideas are actively mainstream.
Reebtog@reddit
If you want to compare how prevalent guns are in Australia vs US:
In 2020, Approximately 3.41% of Australians own a firearm.
Approximately 32% of American adults personally own a firearm, according to a 2023 Pew Research Center survey.
I think it's fair to say that compared to America, Australian citizens are "unarmed" (for better or for worse).
And your notion that we can vote our way out of the systemic mess that is our political system... I'm skeptical. That libertarian ideology that's so mainstream in Australia... got 0.5% of the votes in the last Australian federal election, while the 2 major parties accounted for over 66% of the primary votes.
We're not voting our way out of this mess anytime soon.
Responsible-Gear-400@reddit
I don’t get why people assume that the only way to change things is guns. In Australia we just don’t let it get to the point where we need guns.
We literally fired the politicians when they start going the way we don’t want. Just ask Peter Dutton we miss understood the political climate so bad he got removed from his seat. He was in charge of a political party and lost his job. Because he was trying to be Australia’s Trump.
somerandomshmo@reddit
Because they count government social services as a "freedom".
These ratings are just liberal world order propaganda tools.
Pironious@reddit
Because America is an authoritarian surveillance state shithole descending into fascism, but y'all are too indoctrinated to see it?
Additional-Case4392@reddit
It doesn’t resemble the fascist governments which have existed at all. It is certainly a surveillance state though.
Pironious@reddit
Brother, you're already through the first lines of the First They Came poem. You have a secret police force personally loyal to the president with more funding than most of the world's militaries which ignores the ideas of due process and routinely violates orders from judges. I dunno how to tell you this, but you're already there.
Additional-Case4392@reddit
Deporting illegals =/= brown shirts seizing the government from globalists
Pironious@reddit
Like I said. First line of the poem, too indoctrinated to see, etc. thanks for so succinctly proving my point.
NSFW_Milkshake@reddit
Calling bullshit 😂
Sink_Key@reddit
These graphs or indexes are always ran by people with an agenda. For example, the UK somehow ranks higher in freedom yet they throw people in jail for offensive social media posts? Sure bud
kinglizardking@reddit
Até you really asking this, specially this year? Lol
fa-jita@reddit
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Thuban@reddit
Because it's biased and bullshit.
JimmyJoeMick@reddit
Maybe its that the USA is a police state with a massive and growing army of prisoners, so many that they are outsourcing prisons to other countries. Rape victims forced to carry babies to term even if it kills them or the doctors will be arrested. Deploying the military against the homeless.
I know the taxes are lower and the quality of the food and shelter and education is way more variable than similarly rich countries and the baseline level of health is far lower than similarly rich countries and the life expectancy is far lower than similarly rich countries and thats freedom baby but still, all the imprisoning is hard to overlook.
afewroosloose@reddit
We can own guns, they’re just more regulated.
We were at no point “locked in our homes” I don’t even know where you get that idea.
Economic freedom, universal healthcare and all that other stuff that is far more important than being able to concealed carry is factored into the equation.
KillerofGodz@reddit
"The nominated person can visit their single friend in their home, but it can't be the other way around.
The nominated person can travel more than five kilometres from the place of residence, but can't leave the lockdown area for Greater Sydney, or their LGA for regional NSW.
For those living in one of the 12 local government areas under tighter lockdown restrictions, the nominated person must live within a five-kilometre radius of their home and must be registered at Service NSW."
Having to register friends to visit is pretty authoritarian.
Amarollz@reddit
Yeah mate that was during a pandemic and lasted for a couple of weeks/months at most most of us were happy to oblige for the greater good. Only the right wing nut jobs didn’t like it.
afewroosloose@reddit
So we weren’t locked in our homes thanks for proving that mate
hypercomms2001@reddit
You know what they say, in Australia we build schools for the education of our children, but in the United States now they are just shooting ranges, so people who believe in that freedom means they can go into a school and use children as target practice…. Thankfully in Australia, we’re not that stupid…. Nor selfish..
Norseman103@reddit
Yeah, we think freedom rankings are directly tied to gun ownership. Meanwhile, we’ve got troops deployed on our city streets and people who I used to think embraced freedom, are applauding it.
RationalLlama@reddit
Well considering the US has deported students for their views on the Israel Palestine conflict, and trump threatening to cut aid to states that boycott Israel... You do the math.
TheHud85@reddit
Lol UK rated higher than the US? I mean shit sucks here right now but the one thing we can still say is at least we're not in the UK.
KillerofGodz@reddit
The same way the UK is but they will arrest you for saying anything the government disagrees with on social media.
The creator is heavily biased and does not engage in wrongthink and embraces newspeak.
Ok_Tie_7564@reddit
We don't have Trump.
Avtamatic@reddit
It's simple.
They lied.
HungryFollowing8909@reddit
Canada should NOT be that green. It's closer or less than the states.
mello-t@reddit
Have you been paying attention lately?
Mr-Magoo48@reddit
It’s a 6 point difference on the scale and both are very high end results. What’s the point of the argument? It will be a simple difference in civil liberties because we have a few more protected rights here in OZ than the US. People with nothing better to do than being outraged by some arbitrary list of rules and regulations saying one place is more free?
Surely as sheep in the herd, freedom is just what you think it is for you?
I bet you get a different answer depending on which demographic you assess?
Steamer61@reddit
How do you define freedom? How does a conservative define freedom, a liberal, a communist, a socialist, etc.
Freedom for most conservative or libertarian Americans is faiy easy to define.
Whoever made this chart was certainly not an American Conservative or Libertarian.
ThotPoppa@reddit
because this index does not reflect reality
AusCan531@reddit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_freedom_indices
Flightwise@reddit
Trot along and watch the Jeff Daniel’s scene from The Newsroom https://youtu.be/wTjMqda19wk?si=ebDZHyvPo1x7y2SG
Misterfahrenheit120@reddit
Usually one of two explanations:
1) The people who made this map have a bias against the US (aka they are liberal)
2) They are including economic freedom, and they are correct
greatBLT@reddit
Gun ownership rights are big, yeah, but I don't think they weigh that so much in whatever calculations they use. Same for free speech at the level that the US has. Incarceration rates and financial freedom are probably where the US ratings take a significant hit. LGB rights are good, but there's been a lot of prejudice and restrictions against the T in a number of states over the past decade. I see it's data from 2021, which is before Dobbs v. Jackson, but perhaps it was still taking into account the strong anti-abortion movement.
finndego@reddit
Why is anyone suprised that any other decent country ranks higher than the US in liberty right now?
For the record it's on their website including the data they used:
For each country and territory, Freedom in the World analyzes the electoral process, political pluralism and participation, the functioning of the government, freedom of expression and of belief, associational and organizational rights, the rule of law, and personal autonomy and individual rights.
https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world
Btw, you are allowed to own a gun in Australia but that said, people put too much emphisis on just the ability to own a gun and equating that with personal freedom. For example, The Cato Insitute had Texas 50th in 2023 among all US States in civil liberty. It's just one piece of a bigger puzzle.
Curiosity-92@reddit
If you look at the American police videos just arresting people for sitting in their cars are walking on the footpath you would understand.
PsychodelicTea@reddit
The emus
bownt1@reddit
because the map is a lie
Economy-Amphibian-63@reddit
trumps fascism
mikeo2ii@reddit
Remember the "Patriot Act"? Yeah it's like that. In no way should this be called "Freedom Index", but here we are.
KingofPro@reddit
If you’re in the Epstein Files your Freedom is 1000%