Libertarian Cops
Posted by Berreta_topg239@reddit | Libertarian | View on Reddit | 30 comments
So obviously cops especially American ones don’t have the best reputation of being good civil servants and we’ve all seen the meme of the truck with the thin blue line and Gadsden flag bumper stickers. But I was wondering would it be hypocritical if a libertarian also worked as a police officer? Not a federal agent, just a regular cop and could they conduct themselves in a way that’s for libertarian principles?
brinerbear@reddit
Are you familiar with Mike Dunafon he was a libertarian Mayor in Glendale Colorado. And he slightly reformed the police department to make it somewhat libertarian in some ways. Apparently they had a negative reputation and he told them to be more friendly to encourage more people to do business in the city. He also looked up really obscure laws like if a business wasn't allowed to have a pool table or a band at a bar without a special permit. So he would have the police department arrest the business owner and then help to get the law overturned because he believed it was just a form of protectionism that big business used to drive out small businesses. When Colorado passed a high capacity magazine ban he held an event with Magpul to give away magazines. I got the chance to meet him and found him to be great.
There might be other libertarianish police departments or security organizations but that is the best example I know about.
Tandy_Raney3223@reddit
How can one enforce laws that they don’t believe in? You would either have to bend your morals and enforce those laws or break the law and look the other way. Either way you’re putting your morals in jeopardy.
libertarianinus@reddit
Cops just enforce what the citizens voted for. They have a oath to protect and enforce the constitution. If they are caught lying once, they are done because your word is all you have. Tell me what other profession that you CANT be caught lying. Its called "less than truthful" but that does not mean they can leave out info in reports. Thats the job of the DA and internal affairs. Most cops are more libertarian than the general population. Like a soldier. They say its what I do but not who I am. Change the law if you dont like it enforced.
If we had no crime, we wouldn't need cops. 3% of the population prey on people, thats why they commit 90% of crimes. An estimated 68% of released prisoners were arrested within 3 years, 79% within 6 years, and 83% within 9 years
Rare-Jackfruit-7670@reddit
90% of laws passed are done so without ever even notifying the citizens.
DanTheAdequate@reddit
Professions that you cannot be caught lying, or else face losing the profession and/or potential jail time:
Notaries
Book-Keepers
Tax preparers
Financial advisors
Lawyers, believe it or not (they're just good at threading that needle, but get disbarred all the time)
Doctors
Insurance adjusters
Home appraisers
Realtors
Engineers
Building inspectors
CFOs
Uber Drivers
Just off the top of my head...
libertarianinus@reddit
Yes you are correct. Most will only find out in a court of law. Lawyers live off of lying, or twisting the truth for thier clients.
Unless written down, under oath, how many times have you heard "i dont recall or I dont remember". Thats why bodycams are NEEDED but its when cameras by big brother invade personal property. Thats a problem.
hardeho@reddit
I identify as a libertarian, but definitely lean towards the conservative side of it, and I'm a police lieutenant for a suburban PD.
In reference to a previous comment, I have never felt, nor do I produce, any pressure for "metrics". The only pressure I put on my team is to follow up with victims within 7 days as required, and to do their best to find the suspects in the criminal cases we take. For example, if you report a theft, you deserve to have an officer trying to make that arrest, not for that officer to not be watching Tik Tok in an empty parking lot.
Creepy-Fig929@reddit
What exactly is the conservative side of libertarian?
PhilRubdiez@reddit
Having personally conservative views, but not wanting the government to enforce them. I have some pretty conservative views, but I wouldn’t want some state goons to go arrest people over it.
Rare-Jackfruit-7670@reddit
Agree 100%. Reddit, unfortunately, is not the place to even say the “C” word, lest you be silenced forever. Pretty ridiculous, but even in a libertarian sub
Creepy-Fig929@reddit
So you’re a republican, myself disagree with liberal/conservative almost on everything. There’s no much common ground between the both to me in last couple decades.
PhilRubdiez@reddit
No. For example, I would prefer people to not get abortions. I find it abhorrent. However, I understand not everyone shares my views. Because you can’t legislate morality in a just world, then it isn’t up to the government to step in and kidnap/assault/murder someone over it. Same thing with marijuana. I personally don’t partake, I avoid Dude Weed stoners, but I’m not out there calling for it to be illegal.
HealthyHelicopter109@reddit
There’s different flavors but most are MAGA/ authoritarian dressed as Libertarians
Rare-Jackfruit-7670@reddit
Most are not, though
Rare-Jackfruit-7670@reddit
Depends. Does speeding do harm? Does having a broken taillight do harm? Does building a fence too close to the street do harm? Does smoking crack in front of a school do harm? Does prostitution do harm? Does concealing a gun without a permit do harm?
LawyerOld132@reddit
In my opinion politics should not coincide with police work, so if you want to become a cop then do it in a way that mutually benefits everyone even if it goes against your beliefs.
Rare-Jackfruit-7670@reddit
I very much disagree with this. Your job is to enforce laws, even ones we disagree with. The libertarian way would be to ignore/disregard said laws every time, regardless of punishment from your employer. Not sure how long that would last though
eddington_limit@reddit
My dad wanted me to be a cop because in my state they make pretty good money and he just loves law enforcement. I dont think being a cop makes you a bad person just for being in the profession, but I do think it overlaps with too many moral dilemmas. Not something I was able to reconcile with and didnt go that direction. I think we need more community based policing, which is not how most departments function.
strawhatguy@reddit
I don’t see why not. It might be more of, enforcing only laws that punish those violating nap, where the officers have some discretion
Jammylegs@reddit
Libertarians: laws can be used as force against people. Libertarian cops: wait, I need something to do during the day.
Jammylegs@reddit
😂
skeletus@reddit
Yes, it would be hypocritical.
However, it would not be if a libertarian worked as a security officer for a private security company.
DanTheAdequate@reddit
I don't think they could.
Not necessarily because of the individual, but because of the institution of policing as it is practiced.
Nominally, police are given a lot of leeway in terms of whether or not to enforce specific laws, and how to go about it. It would be quite legal for a police office to really function as a true peace office and mostly only concern themselves with immediate threats to life and property and refer the rest to civil institutions.
In practice, however, there's a lot of pressure on metrics. Numbers of stops, of arrests, cases referred to prosecution, nevermind the growing pressure of the Federal government to deputize State and local law enforcement to help it enforce it's Byzantine and arbitrary laws.
There's a lot of perverse incentives and overt pressure put on cops to be not only anti-libertarian, but just plain bad cops.
richard-mt@reddit
I was a reserve deputy in college and thank goodness realized it wasn't the career for me. As for the metrics it isn't that blatant, at least for smaller departments, but there are workarounds. It is illegal to say "you need 10 tickets per shift" etc. Instead they will look at the logs and say "you worked for 12 hours, answered 3 911 calls, and pulled 2 people over. are you just sleeping in your car?" then the cop gets the message to look busy he needs a paper trail, and the easiest way to do that is traffic tickets, even stupid ones like rolling through stop signs or not signaling for a full 100 ft before changing lanes.
i knew one cop who hated traffic. so he would hang out near a trailer park that he knew had lots of people with outstanding warrants and when people would do minor traffic stuff he would pull them over, check their name and if no warrant he would give a warning, but he knew making an arrest and transport to the jail took about 2 hours, so he didn't write many tickets but made arrests so it looked like he was busy.
DanTheAdequate@reddit
Yeah, that's a fair point - sometimes it's really overt, sometimes it's just the workplace pressure to show more work.
And sometimes it's really overt - the Sheriff's office in a neighboring county definitely takes any opportunity to pump up their stats.
Tacoshortage@reddit
I know several. Hang out with rural Sheriffs and you'll see a bunch of it. That's why the thin blue line and Gadsden flag on the same vehicle isn't the oxymoron people here say it is. It is absolutely possible to deter/punish crime while not trampling on the citizenry.
psilocydonia@reddit
I don’t see why not, but I do see them being saddled with more than a few moral dilemmas. On a good day they might be able to exercise their own discretion to do what they believe is the right thing, but that won’t always be an option.
Creepy-Fig929@reddit
The institution of police has always trampled on citizens rights. They are really just puppets for the state and will carry out unlawful things all the time.
Lanky_Barnacle_1749@reddit
The State violates the NAP so an agent of the State cannot be in congruence with libertarianism.
Anthrax6nv@reddit
I think this mostly depends on the individual. If you're ok with enforcing laws you understand but don't necessarily believe in, go for it. If you aren't ok with enforcing laws you don't staunchly support, you probably shouldn't go into law enforcement, regardless of your political views.
For what it's worth, I think all police officers out there could point to certain laws they think are stupid. But what they won't tell you is that law enforcement is truly a choose your own adventure career, so you can usually focus on what you care about.
Unless you have no issue with domestic violence or driving through residential areas drunk, you'll be able to sleep at night just fine.