What’s wrong with the Libertarian party in America?
Posted by Unique-Quarter-2260@reddit | Libertarian | View on Reddit | 55 comments
What’s wrong with the libertarian party in America. They don’t have a major online presence to share ideas, debates or just for others to see there is an alternative to the 2 party system.
I haven’t seen them won in any state or have any major power anywhere other than New Hampshire some what.
The libertarian party online presence can be ridiculous at times, I follow the Colorado libertarian party and all they do is post memes on facebook like bruh how are you going to win voter doing that all day. No educational videos, no debates, nothing.
I feel they are wasting such valuable moment right now, you have figures like Javier Milei in Argentina everyone is looking at him for the good and the bad. You have the raise of socialism in American politics, it’s a golden opportunity and it seems wasted. They don’t have any major political figures other than Thomas Massie or Rand Paul but they are in the Republican Party.
What are you thoughts on this?
Dog_Backup@reddit
Constant infighting
Quiescentmind3@reddit
My own personal opinion of what's wrong? The national party, not the ideology, is run by anarchists that quite literally think no one is as libertarian as they are. Even though they are NOT libertarian because they want zero government, not some little bit of government. And this is from a Minarchist. But locally, party wise, usually they are pretty cool people.
Nothing will ever change completely overnight. We have to lose that hill to die on. Things got to this point through infinitesimal changes over multiple decades and generations. We can make great strides, but it is going to take many more decades to reverse the damage in a way that will be publicly supported (enough to continue getting elected). What really needs to happen is we need to transition away from a duopoly into more of a coalition government system. There needs to be multiple parties running that are forced to work together to get anything done. Even though do-nothing Congress' and presidential administrations are theoretically better for the American public than do everything ones. For every new law creates further criminals out of the previously law abiding.
Any_Worldliness7@reddit
American Libertarianism is confused and almost nonexistent. It’s mostly a camp for disenfranchised republicans and a few centric democrats. It’s mostly people screaming about how things should be without acknowledging there’s a personal responsibility associated with the state of existence they’re champions for.
People have forgotten that personal freedoms come from personal sacrifices. It’s still a bunch of people voting themselves rewards.
riftsrunner@reddit
The game is rigged for the two party system. Any third party has a lot more hoops to jump through than the Republicans and/or the Democrats. For example, in many districts to be eligible to have your name listed on the ballot, you need to collect signatures. For an R or D candidate usually have to collect a fraction of the third party candidate. The voting boards claim it is fair because there are thousands of voters in the two main parties, but third parties need to show that they have enough support to waste the ink to list them.
AnOkFella@reddit
It’s too novel, like a roadside attraction.
We get too many whacky-looking people who wear every blazer color besides blue, half of them run as a form of protest, and the other half (who get further along) sell-out their values.
Gabeeb3DS@reddit
they should get offline and go outside libertarians tend to focus on winning small states
VicRattlehead90@reddit
Telling people to be responsible for themselves and mind their own business isn't a popular message.
Psychological_Air_90@reddit
Telling people to join the Libertarian party so you can call them not "real libertarians" doesn't really help either.
/j
but not...
brinerbear@reddit
They need to win on a small level at first and promote some libertarian ideas like housing/zoning reforms, immigration reforms, and healthcare reforms. Reducing red tape for everything even if policies don't change or a program like Direct Primary Care (for healthcare) should be easy wins for libertarians. Once they actually start winning we can argue who is libertarian enough. Plenty of Democrats and Republicans probably won't pass a purity test but they win elections. The focus needs to be on how to win.
CCWaterBug@reddit
That's all well and good but libertarians tend to eliminate support from both the left and the right equally due to stances on immigration and taxes/2a. Toss in weak candidates with little financial support and voila.. you get 3% assuming you can even get on the ballot
AlphaTangoFoxtrt@reddit
As he said:
VicRattlehead90@reddit
Gary Johnson broke 3%.
But generally, a lot of Americans get suckered by the false dichotomy of choosing the lesser of two evils.
libertarianinus@reddit
Telling people libertarians want to take over the US government so we can leave everyone alone is like speaking an alien language to voters.
AlphaTangoFoxtrt@reddit
As he said:
LongestSprig@reddit
Well.
There really isn't a consistent set of beliefs or message and the absolute extreme is always what is seen first and foremost.
brinerbear@reddit
Mostly they haven't figured out how to win elections.
cluskillz@reddit
Libertarians in the Libertarian Party are too busy fighting other Libertarians in the Libertarian Party to have any time to do much else.
Gsomethepatient@reddit
Having unrealistic demands, I remember Gary Johnson getting booed because he supported drivers licenses, that is a nothing burger in the grand scheme of things, it also support drivers licenses,
But stuff like that just makes the party look like a bunch of weirdos
Unique-Quarter-2260@reddit (OP)
Could be the diversity of ideas what makes the party so weird. I feel libertarians only agree on guns and economic freedom but then the rest is a black hole of different opinions
NeoMoose@reddit
We don't compete for seats. We compete on ideas. And regarding ideas -- Libertarians are too ready to sacrifice the good in the name of the perfect. Couldn't take a win if it slapped us in the face.
"Let's reduce taxes from 33% to 15%."
"HEY, FUCK YOU, TAXATION IS THEFT."
Easy_Magician_925@reddit
When you cry about masks but dont seem to care when the national guard is helping ice kidnap people off the streets its hard for people to think you have the same idea of freedom as them.
Cannoli72@reddit
simple…..the libertarian party is not libertarian
danomo722@reddit
Mises Caucus is the problem right now. They sort of took over and they're conservatives, not libertarian. That cost the LP a lot of members and makes them just another MAGA party. They need to clean out the Mises Caucus completely before they have any chance of making an impact.
SARS2KilledEpstein@reddit
The Mises Caucus are diehard libertarians lol. That's why they are so controversial because they aren't pushing compromising libertarian principles for votes.
pvotes_before_goats@reddit
What happened to the thread earlier asking about DC? I heard another also got removed. Is that a forgotten topic here?
Entropy_Pyre@reddit
My personal thoughts? I think Libertarians just aren't great at organizing and communicating, we tend to just like to be left alone and get pretty feisty when cornered. There's two levers you can pull on to influence politics, one is money, the other is collective action. Unfortunately ideals, like those pushed by Massie and the Pauls, are a bit too...intellectual to sell succinctly, and promote personal responsibility, which is just a bit too much work for a lot of folks. Those who have the money lever to pull can work just fine in the two-party system, they tend to not return to Libertarianism once they realize that. As for collective action, that's a bit dead in the water with Libertarians because it looks too much like socialism for most. So they don't tend to send out fliers, don't tend to put up booths at college campuses, don't tend to form community groups where libertarian ideals might be talked about.
But hey, you could absolutely take some charge and do some of that if you'd like. There's certainly an open space for it. Step up and don't rely on others. Print some fliers, talk to some folks, start a podcast or twitch to build some followers and tell them how they can get involved, organize some sort of community group that bowls on the weekends while also talking about local political action.
Unique-Quarter-2260@reddit (OP)
You are right. I didn’t thought about it before. Unfortunately I feel I’m very uneducated on many topics, so im trying to save myself from public embarrassment.
Entropy_Pyre@reddit
I understand. Right there with you, trying to find ways to get more involved, hitting a couple of dead ends and trying something else. It helps to look at those running the show right now, they keep a pretty low bar. At least we’d be bringing in some desire to see something done. You’re paying attention. That’s more than most. The folks leading the world right now are far from geniuses, and it’s probably best to not put anyone on a pedestal. Just do what you can.
Key_Day_7932@reddit
I think there's too much in-fighting.
I'm personally a paleo-libertarian. I support a conservative culture, but I don't think the government and politicians should be in the business of legislating morality.
To some libertarians, that makes me a paleoconservative.
As long as someone doesn't want to enforce their views through the government, then why does it matter what their opinion is about gay marriage or gender transitioning?
I also see this with the Forward Party. Their own subreddit got in a debate whether they should work with Musk's America Party. Many said they wouldn't because of his views on the culture war, while others think that beggars can't be choosers
Ehronatha@reddit
Correct - the left/right divide is huge in the Libertarian Party.
Plus, surprisingly, there is the establish/anti-establish divide as well.
Also those who want it to be a political club who run candidates largely unsuccessfully, while there are those who want to use it to broadcast the message and influence the other parties to make concessions.
rasungod0@reddit
Spike Cohen is pretty based.
But that party really needs an overhaul.
JonnyDoeDoe@reddit
We did better as a party prior to the Rothardians invading and trying to institutionalize their cultist purity tests....
OIIIOjeep@reddit
It’s exactly what’s wrong with this sub sadly.
US troops deployed on against Americans on American soil…nothing. Heavily armed masked federal agents…nothing. Bill that balloons the deficit…nothing.
KoRaZee@reddit
Libertarians will never be taken seriously without changing views on land use. No serious consideration will be made for a candidate who campaigned on dysfunction
yea_about_that@reddit
Here is an interesting article done by Reason about the current state of the Libertarian Party:
https://reason.com/2024/06/25/how-the-libertarian-party-lost-its-way/
Hoppy_Hessian@reddit
There are a few issues.
You have the people that understand that a 3rd party has no chance and they want to slowly guide one of the two major parties to be more liberty minded. Then you have the "real libertarians" who want nothing to do with the major parties and think the party should win on its own platform...which will never happen, there is too much power in the big two.
In-fighting within the party itself. There are many people who are Libertarians but want nothing to do with the Libertarian Party. The people who are the best examples of Libertarians are not who gets put on the ticket. When you have a party that is based on individual freedoms, it's no wonder you have so many varying ideas of what that looks like. A favorite quote of mine "No one hates Libertarians more than other Libertarians."
Joke candidates. Like I said before, 3rd parties already have no chance in America, but when you put Vermin Supreme's former running mate as your hopes for the highest office in the land you set the parties credibility back 10 years every time you do that. So if every 4 years you erase 10 years of credibility...
Poor brand image. Democrats are Peace Loving hippies and the highly educated. Republicans are business tycoons and blue collar regular folk. Libertarians are...Sov Cits and the Um Akchtually meme guy.
LifeOfSpirit17@reddit
There isn't a good public figure to spearhead it. It's also funny that as much as republicans and democrats stray from the core tenets of the meaning of those words, everyone kind of assumes libertarians are all 100% ideologically libertarian, or really close, which neither side truly jives with as much as they'd hate to admit it since both want some forms of government control and interference.
pvantine@reddit
Too much infighting followed by the so-called party leadership backing one of the two major parties.
bestofeleventy@reddit
These are very broad allegations, but I’d call out three over-arching issues that turn off voters:
Won’t set priorities - long-running stereotype about “Republicans who wanna smoke weed” is unfair, but not that unfair
Won’t let go of grievances - “yes, using Marines for domestic law enforcement is terrible, but during Covid…”
Won’t cite data - everything is about Very Important Principles (and there are clubby “code words” like NAP)
If Libertarians focused on high-impact issues like housing costs, healthcare expenses, licensing requirements for simple jobs; tuned their messages to local/regional priorities instead of trying to eat the whole elephant; and started talking more about real-world effects (no voter in the US cares about Milei; let’s talk about how much solar they’re building in Texas!) - they could win some races - I think?
Flip side is many Americans have always felt that freedom means “I get to do whatever I want, and you also get to do whatever I want.” Obviously that attitude can’t be overcome by better messaging.
Sherviks13@reddit
My guess is cause the average American thinks there are only 2 true sides, anything else is a wasted vote. Which tickles me that the purple people think my vote goes to whichever side they don’t like:
King_Slappa@reddit
They're so principled they just let commies rule over them with little to no push back? That's best I can gather
wes4congress@reddit
There is a lot of division within the Libertarian Party, and outside we get a bad reputation due to the internal faction behavior.
Media, influencers and all outlets have money flooded in from Companies that aim to promote the "uniparty".
Anyone who would actually like Libertarianism is raised to oppose it by the system through fearmongering.
JadesterZ@reddit
Follow the state pages on Twitter and Facebook. I see the posts about local reps running all the time.
jg0x00@reddit
IMO they are too busy trying to prove who is and is not the most libertarian instead of proposing practical ideas that fit the current environment.
Explic11t@reddit
It doesn't help that a few of our state LP organizations are straight up batshit insane (looking at you New Hampshire) and that one of our most famous guys wears a boot on his head so we all appear to be that way even if it isn't true.
But a bigger factor for why the party cant get on the same page is that we're all pretty against collectivism and, to a lesser extent, heirarchal structures, so getting on the same page about anything is fairly impossible.
pizzaforce3@reddit
Internally, Libertarians are more worried about ideological purity than attracting voter support.
Externally, the first-past-the-post voting system used in most states creates a huge hurdle for third parties.
All politicians that are actually trying to get elected to office know that Libertarians are considered by most voters to be a fringe group, and so they run as Dems or GOP, even if they agree with Libertarian principles.
DeltaSolana@reddit
A: People here generally don't value freedom, be it economically or socially.
B: When the Libertarian party does actually gain any traction, the goalposts are moved to preserve the duopoly.
Unique-Quarter-2260@reddit (OP)
I feel they should focus on winning their first state. They all spread out don’t win anything, don’t support candidates, don’t teach their ideas.
PhilRubdiez@reddit
That’s kinda the current strategy. Get some local libertarians into office, then state, and maybe a senator or representative. Once people see there is a third way, it starts to open the door to the White House.
Unique-Quarter-2260@reddit (OP)
Where? Literally where are they . They have no online presence
PhilRubdiez@reddit
There was some guy on here who got elected to a Lorain County seat in Ohio. There’s a bunch of IG pages that get a decent amount of attention that are libertarian minded.
The problem that I see with the online presence of the LP is that it’s just one big purity test. Most people aren’t going to get behind a party that tweets stuff like “Anyone who murders Kamala Harris would be an American hero” or “A proper country would deport women like you or deny any formal ability to participate in governance”. It’s not going to win any sympathy or stoke curiosity. What we need is another Ron Paul 2008 event. It’s how I learned about the philosophy. A lot of people say that, too.
DeltaSolana@reddit
I suppose there's one bullet point I forgot to include...
C: The party of anti-government, anti-democracy, and anti-authoritarianism is kind of adverse to participating in government, democracy, and authoritarianism. Even if it benefits us in the long run.
Unique-Quarter-2260@reddit (OP)
Well those are the rules of the game. You have to do it to win even if you disagree with it in a philosophical sense
DanTheAdequate@reddit
They've had some success on a few issues in a few states.
But otherwise, my general experience with them is that they're just a very silly bunch of people.
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