Why is Greece poor?
Posted by Weird-Wealth-7998@reddit | AskBalkans | View on Reddit | 32 comments
Ever since I've known myself Greece is always in an economic crisis (although thankfully it is getting better recently) and it relies on EU support. Granted, Greece is STILL better than many other Balkan countries despite the crisis, but my question is, why? What caused Greece to have such long lasting economic crisis even today they are still fighting against it?
bluecoldwhiskey@reddit
As of 2025 , Greece is poor for first world standards .
Those who say that it all started in 1980s are correct but I wanna go earlier , back in the 1820s to better understand why Greece will never be truly wealthy .
Modern Greece was created to be the punching bag of Turkey before they reach Europe. To make sure that the Turks do not control the Aegean Sea and that the Dardanelles pass is free. (For the West and the Russians to do their commerce without fear and cost, something that towards the end of the Balkan wars and Greco Turkish war, in 1922 the Turks ensured to the great powers in order for the French the Brits, etc. to stand down while Turkey with the help of Germany pushed back Greece, and regained control of all the lands only up to the part the Greeks had freed from the Bulgarians… who were under Russian influence… cutting Russia off from the Aegean Sea. That was the deal with the Turks in order to allow them to Keep the straits that was under Greek control for some time. This strategy to repel the Russians continues until today with US investing on Naval bases in Thrace making sure that the Russians steer clear from there.)
Sadly Greece never became independent, not after the 1821 revolution, (The Brits although they initially worked close with the French and the Russians to help free Greece they ultimately killed the first governor of Greece as he was influenced by Russians, and threw all the French supporters in jail, after burning the Greek fleet with the help of useful idiots in order to make sure the British fleet was dominant in the area) nor after WW1 or WW2, the great powers of the time (UK, Russia/USSR) continued fighting over Greece and rolled it in blood for another 10 years of civil war between those who supported USSR and those who supported the British occupation, while all other countries had already started rebuilding, and until US forced itself in control of the country with the 1967 Military Junta. (Nixon visited Greece and blessed the Junta not only with nice words but also TONS of business, American companies threw investment parties, a system that is still utilized everywhere US wants to establish control, Bill Clinton later apologized on occasion of his visit to Greece for the US support of the Junta, ) US took over from the Brits permanently after 1974 at which point they dissolved the Junta and instated parliamentary “Democracy” after a vote against reinstating monarchy, with parties that only win if they take the blessing of US.
With the dominance of Germany in EU Greece found itself in bed with a new boss. Was nice at first but, as US didn’t like how EU was becoming independent and already had started asking US to take a hike and dissolve NATO, the situation took a downturn, as US threw its economic bombs to subjugate EU, and Greece was caught in the middle leading to the infamous economic crisis. Greece held as much as it could before ultimately surrendering to 99 years of “supervision” from EU and US.
From A. Papandreou to Tsipras, they have all bent the knee to US presidents in order to be supported to become PMs. (With a small interval in the late 90s and until 2008 where they had to fall in line with Germany too.) The most obvious example is Tsipras, who only after his visit to US and the “blessings” of Obama, found his fringe party ranging from 5–7% to the top of Greek politics with 35% after the old US favorites were mired in scandals and fell to nothingness.
Everything that happens to Greece, today, and for the last 200 years, of course the Greeks have something to do with it, but ultimately it is because A. It is not meant to be powerful enough to have its own policy B. the great powers of the world (this changes over time, today it is US, Germany and Russia) fight each other and hurt Greece and the Greeks as they vie for control over the country its strategic position and resources.
1/2
bluecoldwhiskey@reddit
For the last 200 years, UK, German, Russia and US, constantly steer Greek policy into debt, and undermine any attempts of Greece to independently exploit its resources (oil and NG) .This is happening from the very early days of Greece.
In the recent years, not only they have locked Greece in a 99 year treaty and debt contract over every resource Greece has or finds in the future, BUT they have also encouraged Turkey to become aggressive so that Greece really has no other choice but to give the control of its vast natural gas and oil reserves to France, US, etc. Germany is working with Turkey so they get a share from them, and Italy is somewhere in between. Depends on who is ruling the country.
Now if you ask how is this possible with so much Democracy thrown around, well, the game is called Geopolitics and Economic warfare.
The only way Greece might find itself at the top again, is if Germany somehow gets detached from Turkey, (super difficult as they are constantly investing in Turkey and getting more and more entangled in Erdogan’s schemes, imagine they even try to fund Turkey through a new EU scheme they proposed… ) and if US decides that Turkey is a serious liability.
So far Erdogan is playing a smart game between US and Russia, but we do not know how long it is going to continue. (it appears now Erdogan is trying to return under US control as US threatened to cut off Turkey if they continued dancing with Russia.)
Ultimately the key in all that, is how the western powers and more importantly US, will see Turkey the next 20 years. If they continue loving Turkey, greece is doomed to be second grade Banania for ever. If they stop being friends with Turkey, Greece is facing great risk. But also will have some opportunities.
In any case, all the Greek resources are bound to the “debt collectors”. US, Germany, etc. for the next 100 years. So it is unlikely it will become economically independent and thus powerful, any time soon.
Similar things apply to all Balkan states and Turkey (which will get partitioned inevitably).
2/2
Only-Dimension-4424@reddit
Turk,Turk,Turk .... to much Turk ... you were rich country till 2008 then after crisis you downgraded by yourself , so instead of blaming too distant past check your recent past
FacelessVodi@reddit
He is mostly correct in everything he said and I dont even like the guy
bluecoldwhiskey@reddit
Out of curiosity,where do you disagree?
bluecoldwhiskey@reddit
We were never rich.We only lived through borrowed money .Cut the EU cash flow and we will become Venezuela. (and this will happen)
Try to study history and geopolitics from a neutral POV.And give it some time.
Only-Dimension-4424@reddit
Well in early 2000s Greece become rich and this lasted till 2008 crisis , so technically you were rich almost a decade whether money from somewhere else or not
bluecoldwhiskey@reddit
As I said , that was borrowed money , most of it went towards funding public sector parasites or consumption.I said Greece was and is poor for first world standards .
Greece is practically a pseudo developed because so many others lack the basic.If you consider this rich , then living in Turkey must be hell .
Anyway , my original comments are spot on.Can you dissaprove them with facts.
Weird-Wealth-7998@reddit (OP)
Thanks for the elaborate explanation. It was an interesting read.
Dismal-Attitude-5439@reddit
Is Greece poor?
geo0rgi@reddit
People in the Balkans consider themselves poor while looking towards countries like Switzerland, Norway or Germany. But we also kind of ignore the fact that the Balkans are wealthier than vast majority of the population on the planet.
Dismal-Attitude-5439@reddit
Greeks are, generally speaking, richer than everyone else on the Balkans, pretty much in every measurable way. I don't understand OPs question.
Valuable_Bag_1484@reddit
There is no fucking way this is true, stop peddling obvious lies. I went to Greece last week and it was like going back in time 15 years. Everyone is driving tiny rusted shitboxes from the 90s and the road quality is abysmal for a country with a toll booth system. BG border to Halkidiki has a total of like 10km of actual highway where you can go full 130, which is absolutely ridiculous.
Only-Dimension-4424@reddit
Because Greece is crippled since 2008 , prior that they were almost same level richness with Italy or Spain , but now they are even poorer than Portugal , so that's why
Willing_Corner2661@reddit
Wealthier than the vast majority of the world population is a stretch tho, maybe wealthier than Africa and parts of Asia but our GDP, median wages, and overall living standards are comparable to countries like Botswana Egypt and Gabon
Only-Dimension-4424@reddit
After 2008 crises they downgraded so they become poor , prior that they were rich
-asosyaladam-@reddit
Yeah,they are😂😂
Only-Dimension-4424@reddit
What's funny since we are more poor
-asosyaladam-@reddit
Kes aq
bluecoldwhiskey@reddit
While you are living in riches .
Sea_Top9815@reddit
Greetings pal. So let's start: Greece is ruled by 3 families. those are oligarchs. Greece is like little Russia. Those rich oligarchs have a cartel in the country and many of them didn't even live in Greece. They rule every political party! If any party tries to do something good for the country they blackmail them and threat their whole existence or they give a whole lot of money to them to make them their little sluts! In the past everyone that tried to do something good they found them dead or exiled... The medias, newspapers,tv channels all are ruled by oligarchs....
Metanasths@reddit
Greece is definitely not poor.
Huge_Finger_5490@reddit
It is poor compared to Western European countries or Sothern Mediterranean countries like Spain or Italy. Greek economy seemed to be catching up with that of the rest of europe in the late 1990's and early 2000's, but the financial crisis was a huge blow. Adjusted for purchasing power and inflation, every member state of the European Union (EU) has seen growth in GDP per capita since the tail end of the global financial crisis in 2009—except Greece. From 2009 to 2022, Greek GDP per capita declined by 11% by this measure; measuring in nominal GDP per capita, Greek affluence fell from a high of $32,128 in 2008 to $22,990 in 2023, a decline of 28.4%.Greek economy has rebounded partially, but it is still smaller that its 2007 levels. Besides, this increase is mostly based on tourism, which is a low-tech, low-value-adding sector that exacerbates economic inequality.
dwartbg9@reddit
Getting into debt after debt, from the 80s until the early 2000s does that. They became a rich, 1st world country because of a falsely inflated economy through bazillion debts. Yes, in a way this was a good thing - politicians probably didn't steal a lot, and invested all of the debts in the country, building their infrastructure, raising the salaries tremendously etc... But the country wasn't producing or doing much to return these loans, hence one day it bankrupted heavily. And it's still recovering from that. Greece is probably the only Balkan country that saw a DECREASE in salaries.
And if it wasn't for Germany, it would've been over for them and their economy would've collapsed. Greece would've become a failed state like Venezuela.
Think about it like that: - You're some poor dude, that one day decide to appear cool to chicks. You go to all the banks possible and take many credit cards and loans. You get a nice car, nice apartment, go to exotic holidays etc... You spend your money for chicks and in casinos and all your friends think you're super rich and powerful. Then one day you can't pay back the debts and you fall down hard.
fusand@reddit
Greece’s economic problems go back decades, and a lot of it comes down to high debt and structural issues. For many years, the government spent far more than it collected in revenue on public sector wages, pensions, and large infrastructure projects. To cover the gap, it relied heavily on borrowing. At the same time, tax evasion and bureaucratic inefficiencies limited government income.
Joining the eurozone made things more complicated. Greece could no longer devalue its currency to stay competitive, so borrowing became one of the main ways to finance growth. When the 2008 global financial crisis hit, debt levels became unsustainable. This led to several EU and IMF bailout programs and years of austerity measures that affected everyday life, from public services to wages and pensions.
Even today, Greece’s economy is gradually improving, but debt remains high. The country is still heavily dependent on tourism and shipping, which makes it vulnerable to global shocks, such as recessions or drops in travelling.
In short, Greece’s situation is the result of decades of complex economic decisions, structural weaknesses, and external pressures.
Turbulent-Debate7661@reddit
we are not poor. Maybe poor compared to United States salaries
Weird-Wealth-7998@reddit (OP)
it was the impression i was under after reading some crisis related articles on the greek side.
lightvad3r@reddit
Finally someone honest.
lightvad3r@reddit
Habibi(ti), come to Serbia!
Dry_Jackfruit_5898@reddit
Greece hust had one very long economic crisis (2009-2018)
They were also affected by Covid like everyone else
So while it's true that Greek 2009 crisis was unsually long, Greece has since recovered and doesn't seem to be especially vulnerable to crisis since then.
Weird-Wealth-7998@reddit (OP)
Didn't know that, thanks!
SonsOfSolid@reddit
Its not poor, it was poor in 2008 during the recession and not anymore. A big reason for it was saying fuck off to unrealistic expectations from the EU.
Really, shut the fuck up with these stupif posts already.