Why are the Balkans still so conservative when it comes to homosexuality? We’re more aligned with the Middle East than with Europe in this aspect.
Posted by Substratas@reddit | AskBalkans | View on Reddit | 309 comments
the_TIGEEER@reddit
Wdym justefied?
RealisticMountain425@reddit
Most of the people that are supportove or indifferent to homosexuality are young university graduates. Those same people are also leaving the region for better employment in the west. So the majority of the people remaining in the Balkans are old people, stuck in their ways, and young idiots, that never got the memo of what century we are in.
bigdoner182@reddit
I think most people don’t care what people do in their personal lives but also don’t think it’s good. Is it necessary to think it’s good? Ultimately I think they don’t want it to become like in the U.S. where a political group the half the country fiercely supports keeps on pushing books on sexuality to kids wants them to be able to take puberty blocking hormones, and you can’t watch any media without 🌈being shoved in your face.
A happy should exist, I think Eastern Europe has that or could have it.
Top_Interview9680@reddit
Yikes.
bigdoner182@reddit
Totally agree with you, the extremity of the American left wing is yikes
Top_Interview9680@reddit
Please, try to have an original thought. I’m begging you.
ConcentrateAgile125@reddit
Very discriminative of you to assume all young people with different opinion are idiots, but it checks out since all homo supporters are bigots.
Lumpy-Tone-4653@reddit
Woah...what you said was really stupid
Chaos_Slug@reddit
Pretty clear the assumption is true in your case.
RealisticMountain425@reddit
I never spoke in absolutes. Learn to read.
MAFFSEA@reddit
You nailed it!!!
sjedinjenoStanje@reddit
Religious dogma is the biggest reason. Other Europeans who are more accepting are generally more secular.
AdelphicHitter4514@reddit
It can't be. I know plenty of atheistic homophobes. It's instinctive, religion is an excuse.
Substratas@reddit (OP)
It can't be instinctive. Hate is taught. In Polish the word Romanian (Rumun) is synonymous with homeless beggar but that doesn't mean their disdain is instinctive.
bigdoner182@reddit
The sausage is made for the hole. How’s it not instinctive?
Them some months later 🎁
Welcome to earth.
ilijadwa@reddit
It’s a bit ironic to hear that coming from a Bulgarian, clearly you guys (and the rest of the Balkans) have forgotten about that as all the Balkan countries have very low fertility rates.
Onofrio22@reddit
Same guy who cries about homophobia lmao. Albania is not sending their best...
Mysterious_Emu_4832@reddit
In English, the word Albanian is synonymous with dangerous mafia of robbers and drug dealers.
Substratas@reddit (OP)
I’d take that anytime over homeless beggar. ❤️
Mysterious_Emu_4832@reddit
So, for you it's better to harm others?
saturdaybinge@reddit
He’s probably just frustrated he’s from that shithole Albania 😂
saturdaybinge@reddit
That’s because you’re an idiot
AdelphicHitter4514@reddit
Yes, I was taught to hate spiders and cockroaches.
TastyTestikel@reddit
Revulsion and aversion shouldn't influence if you accept other people being gay or not.
AdelphicHitter4514@reddit
Why is a shqiptar trying to tell me about polish slang?
saturdaybinge@reddit
Low effort bait
rintzscar@reddit
It has nothing to do with religion. It's Communism. The Communist states heavily stigmatized and penalized homosexuality. They brainwashed their citizens to hate it.
sjedinjenoStanje@reddit
Why is the Czech Republic more tolerant than Western Italy and Portugal?
The Czech Republic is one of the least religious countries on the planet.
rintzscar@reddit
Bulgaria is also one of the least religious countries on the planet and it's very intolerant.
The reason is Communism, mate. Czechia removed the Communist influence from their society far better than Bulgaria or Romania did.
RewardOk2503@reddit
It's not even just communism lol but good scapegoat maybe. The ottoman empire legalized homosexuality just for bulgaria to get its independence and recriminalize it almost right away... that has nothing to do with communism and everything to do with ignorance.
TvManiac5@reddit
It has everything to do with religion. Source: I'm Greek.
If you know anything about Greek history you will know that communism failed to have any form of strong influence or impact here both after WW2, since the British gave resources to the right wing army forces to persecute and kill or exile anyone from the side of the communists that fought in the war and wanted a share in power, and later in the 60s, where a horryfing military dictatorship was formed.
On the other hand, the Christian Church, kept getting more and more prominent.
And yeah, we're really homophobic/transphobic as a country still. Even as recently as two years ago there were people here throwing rocks at LGBT members of a pride parade in one of our big cities.
rintzscar@reddit
I'm Greek is not a source of anything other than bias. Stop spreading nonsense and study the data.
vbd71@reddit
Albania and Bulgaria have low religiosity. Yet...
Crowarior@reddit
Wtf r u a gypsy??
vbd71@reddit
I'm Roma, my friend. Any other questions?
Substratas@reddit (OP)
Not the tact of a troglodyte. 😒
Crowarior@reddit
😀👍
pr0faka@reddit
Religion is only an excuse for people to act poorly even when they know they are acting poorly.
You never hear someone say: "I'm only donating to charity because of my religious tradition, not because I personally think it's a good idea".
I swear I have no clue what people specifically mean when they say 'traditional/religious values'.
adon_bilivit@reddit
A more important question is why some of these fuckers got into the EU with such terrible treatment of the LGBTQ+.
kapsama@reddit
Germany still rallied against gay marriage when those countries joined. Gay acceptance is relatively new.
Substratas@reddit (OP)
Make false promises & stats just to join the EU (for money).
Join the EU. The country starts booming economically now that the union’s money starts flowing into the local economy.
Use that money to renovate streets, rebuild cities, etc.
After you’re done using all the money they could give you, you don’t want to do what you promised to the EU because all you wanted to join the EU for was their money, not their cultural values.
Hungary.
Street-Selection2516@reddit
💪🏻🇲🇪 We are 100%
Substratas@reddit (OP)
blind.
Street-Selection2516@reddit
Why blind? Are we animals to shag each other regardless of gender ?
basedfinger@reddit
yes, yes we are.
bigdoner182@reddit
Embrace your primal instincts is exactly what mat the world does, since it 95% straight.
Street-Selection2516@reddit
You do you mate, that's your problem not mine.
Substratas@reddit (OP)
That’s not what homosexuality is, but kudos for your non-animal intelligence.
Fit_Instruction3646@reddit
We're closer to the Middle East than Western Europe in (almost) any aspect.
bigdoner182@reddit
Some would say London is closer to the Middle East than Sofia.
Artistic-Turnip-9903@reddit
I keep telling people we re closer to India and Middle East but they don’t like to hear it. It is due to the iron curtain and at least in my country being Christian orthodox
EpiclyAwesom3@reddit
im shocked in india its that bad... our own religon tells us to respect trans people... atleast in hinduism
Artistic-Turnip-9903@reddit
Our Christian religion also says to love all humans but there is no love as Christian hate.
bigdoner182@reddit
You can love Michael Jackson and his music , without loving that he put his thing in little dudes
Dame_Ivy@reddit
peer pressure and emotionally constipated people
YngwieMainstream@reddit
Wiping the West's ass kinda does that.
The youngsters are ok. Mostly because they grew up relatively affluent and they didn't have to do the ass wiping. Yet.
AcrobaticKitten@reddit
For most people equally peer pressure to accept homosexuality as well.
adon_bilivit@reddit
It's as hard as accepting that there are straight people in the world. Maybe less so, as they're a minority. 😄
iammyselfhello@reddit
Who hasn't accepted that there are straight people?
adon_bilivit@reddit
No one, that's my point...
iammyselfhello@reddit
Yeah read that with wrong tone
Salvosuper@reddit
I think that was exactly the rhetoric
hicks0n@reddit
And these fags just proved your point :D
autotunoid@reddit
Awww it must be so hard for them! They must be so oppressed
Electronic_Mango4055@reddit
Bc they’re poorer and poor countries are less likely to have progressive values
nmaddine@reddit
What awhat about Philippines/vietnam/thailand
Electronic_Mango4055@reddit
It’s nuanced. They have an interesting cultural element that the rest of the world doesn’t have - lady boys
nmaddine@reddit
So it’s only cultural in SE Asia but only economics in Europe
Electronic_Mango4055@reddit
I said it’s nuanced lol
Pajoski@reddit
Lol, why is it more progressive to accept gay?😂
Crowarior@reddit
Because thats what the western culture says and we must listen to them because they are superior.
WaffleDonut22@reddit
Because that’s what all the happy, healthy, developed and non-corrupt countries do, so we should be more like them :)
Pajoski@reddit
“Non-corrupt”😂 the only difference is that you need more money in western countries then other countries.
WaffleDonut22@reddit
Huh? There are actual metrics of corruption out there and Western Europe is MUCH lower on the corruption scale than the Balkans. It’s not that hard to look this up. There is also something called purchasing power index which calculates cost of living relative to average net salary and it is also much better in Western Europe than in the Balkans. Also Western Europe is happier, healthier and lives longer. I don’t make the facts 🤷♂️
Pajoski@reddit
That’s the thing, people think that when you have a higher purchasing power that you are happier. Good indication that you are clueless about what true happiness means.
WaffleDonut22@reddit
Lmao, I am basing my happiness metric on the happiness index which is an actual measure of happiness. 9/10 countries in the top 10 have gay marriage and adoption :) there is also a significant obvious overlap with having a higher purchasing power and being more happy.
lavenderlovey88@reddit
yeah true. same with my country
Substratas@reddit (OP)
Tea.
https://i.redd.it/sfk32uwmooif1.gif
tipoftheiceberg1234@reddit
Not Balkans, almost all of Eastern Europe
bigdoner182@reddit
Asia as well.
Boeing367-80@reddit
Former communist countries. They did not experience the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s the way the west did - sexual liberation, women's rights movement, rock and roll, civil rights movements.
The gay rights movement was a part of this general expansion of thought, rights, living differently (whether long hair or vegetarianism).
More generally, there was much less communication between Eastern Europe and the world than Western Europe. There was essentially zero freedom of press in Eastern Europe, unless you were in one of the places able to receive Western European TV or made an effort to listen to shortwave radio.
nikolastefan@reddit
Yugoslavia did have a lot of western entertainment and music imported into the country. My parents even remember there having been hippies, those just being way less over the top compared to the west
tipoftheiceberg1234@reddit
The hippie movement existed in Czechoslovakia
Boeing367-80@reddit
Yugo was always a bit different - for instance, large numbers of Yugoslavs worked officially in the west as gastarbeiter, something basically impossible to imagine of Warsaw Pact citizens.
birgor@reddit
Czechia and Slovakia is not as bad. They might be central Europe according to some, but still former Communists.
Automatic_Tackle_406@reddit
This.
Ok_Hamster_1690@reddit
I really didn't expect Slovenia to that expecting
Substratas@reddit (OP)
My biggest shock was Slovakia being as tolerant as Slovenia.
OhCanadeh@reddit
Visiting Bratislava, I was so impressed at how many Pride flags were aroung the town. It's the most LGBT-friendly country I've seen in Eastern Europe.
Quiet-Pressure4920@reddit
I think Czech Republic deifnitely wins when it comes to being lgbt friendly. It competes with Western European countries on all these statistics
YngwieMainstream@reddit
The Czechs would do anything for that sweet tourist cash.
RennietheAquarian@reddit
Slovakia is also the most beautiful.
OCDEngineerBoy@reddit
Money speaks for itself. Having the Europe's biggest gay porn studio in the country certainly will help.
chunek@reddit
Why not? Gay is okay.
ZelezopecnikovKoren@reddit
once you meet enough straight morons, you understand being gay isnt what makes one a moron, live and let love, everyone gets rights in slovenia since everyone gets the wrongs too
johnnyparker_@reddit
In my brief experience, they pride themselves on being more laid back than their neighbors.
AnteChrist76@reddit
but they r femboys
Unlawful_Paladin@reddit
Because being homosexual is gay.
selqnin@reddit
It's f-ing gay af.
_Dilapidated_@reddit
Based...
nuclearactivatedidio@reddit
its beacuase we dont want your western bullshit. look at america today🤣🤣🤣 you guys have naked old men walking around kids with rainbow capes🤣🤣🤣. we dont want that here and we wont tolerate it. its simple as that. if you feel offended cry about it as we dont give a single shit.
ilijadwa@reddit
I’m gay and this is what my life looks like:
I’m sure it’s not that different to how you live your life.
nuclearactivatedidio@reddit
2 men holding hands is just disgusting and shows weakness. do whatever you want in your own country. sure you can come to the balkans but people wont tolerate 2 men showing love to eachother. the americans who fought in the civil war, ww1, and ww2 for america hated gays and thats reality. and if they saw america today they would just surrender as there would be no point of risking there life for weak same gender loving men. we have seen the west fall into madness and we dont want it here so we wont tolerate it here. And no a straight mans life is vastly different. A straight man has a wife, has his biological children, has more testosterone, has manly hobbies, has a proper and natural life, Etc. We wont and never will tolerate homosexuality in the balkans. And everyone is deeply religious so it aint never changing.
inhvalane@reddit
0/10 ragebait what are you
nuclearactivatedidio@reddit
i am a normal human with common sense (common sense is not common these days, a example is you). it is not ragebait i am just stating that we don't tolerate homosexuality in the balkans. cry about it🤣🤣🤣. and seeing that you cant distinguish between a opinion and ragebait makes mething your devoid of any common sense and your age range is prob 5-7 yrs old as you talk like one.
WaffleDonut22@reddit
It is not, we almost have the exact same life as them, but these people are brainwashed to think that we are aliens because they saw a crazy naked old man across the Atlantic.
nuclearactivatedidio@reddit
a straight mans life is vastly different from a gay twat.
WaffleDonut22@reddit
Keep telling yourself that, lmao. As the other guy told you, most gay people are regular guys who live regular lives and just replace the word “girlfriend” with “boyfriend”. Unless your personal life as a straight man is unhealthy and you don’t have a job, girlfriend or work out then yes I guess your life would be a bit different but that would be your own problem.
TheBalkanMan@reddit
I'm Greek and I visited northern Greece with my boyfriend being publicly expressive of our relationship. Nobody seemed bothered! Greece legalised gay marriage. Hungary also tends to be Romania's trendsetter so when things get better in Hungary expect Romania to be more accepting. We are talking about the Balkans not being tolerant but there are still countries in Europe that are conservative: Italy is still deeply homophobic in their depictions and LGBTQ rights.The UK is considered to be tolerant but it's one of the biggest anti trans den in Europe. So let's not believe exactly the reports as nuanced is needed!
Zealousideal-Put1250@reddit
We are not a fans of degeneracy
Substratas@reddit (OP)
I can tell.
Zealousideal-Put1250@reddit
What's degeneracy in those images? I know you like degeneracy with goats... XD
odanwt99@reddit
That's a nice profile pic.
Fast-Ad-9438@reddit
because we are normal
WaffleDonut22@reddit
It’s not normal to treat harmless innocent people unequally. That’s why your society is collapsing while the rest of the progressive world is developing.
Fast-Ad-9438@reddit
and what part of world is that ?
WaffleDonut22@reddit
Countries like Iceland, Finland and Denmark are doing better than countries like Russia, Nigeria and Afghanistan. If you want your country to look more like the second group then you have some issues
Fine-Measurement-893@reddit
I do not believe these results to be accurate, most polls show at least 30-40% of turks having a neutral or bettter view on homosexuality, so I doubt that more than 80 percent would say that "homosexuality is never justified"
Child_of_JHWH@reddit
Because it‘s gay (pun intended)
myshkin_dostoevsky@reddit
Because Balkans are Christian and Muslim, and both religions are opposed to that.
Substratas@reddit (OP)
So is Spain.
ByzantineCat0@reddit
Not as secular as Spain though
Vihruska@reddit
Bulgaria is more secular than Spain by some stats and at the same level as Spain by others (depending on the question asked) and yet here are the results. I don't think religion plays the major role in it. In some countries maybe it builds on the preexisting sentiment but it doesn't explain Bulgaria's case, so there's more.
Frankly, I think it's more purely cultural and in the last decades somewhat of an anti-different people propaganda is exacerbating it.
myshkin_dostoevsky@reddit
Most Bulgarians I’ve met are pretty religious, are you sure?
Vihruska@reddit
Yes, I'm certain. Statistics are public about this question.
ByzantineCat0@reddit
You're right.
MirusTheVirus@reddit
Because it's a sin? I wish people treated all the other sins the same so we could get rid of a lot of garbage (gambling, cornography, etc.)
WaffleDonut22@reddit
And because you think it’s a sin based on your wrong beliefs, others should follow along even though it causes no measurable harm to anybody? Gambling and pornography both have measurable harms at least. Find a better argument
MirusTheVirus@reddit
Those aren't "my" beliefs.
It is harmful. It is destructive to the fabric of society. Stagnant and retracting population numbers are due to all of these problems where people act like everyone should mind their business like we don't live on the same planet.
I know I'm talking to the Reddit crowd which is very left leaning.
WaffleDonut22@reddit
It is not harmful. It doesn’t destroy anything as it is something that is non-chosen, unchangeable and doesn’t “spread”. So it can de facto not be destructive to the fabric of society.
Around half of gay people want to have children but in your country they are not allowed to do that. The ONLY way for gay people to help increase the birth rate is by recognizing their families and letting them go through IVF or surrogacy. If your country has homophobic laws then the gay percentage stays the same but they all can’t have children, while otherwise they could. it’s not that hard to understand.
And you don’t seem to understand left vs right distinctions either, I am right-leaning myself but I have enough common sense to understand that letting gay people be productive and equal members of society is a win-win for everybody involved.
MirusTheVirus@reddit
Being addicted to gambling, thievery, or murder is not a choice either and yet we stand against it.
We are indeed human, and to be a good human being is to not give in to temptation, rather than justify it.
WaffleDonut22@reddit
You missed the “and has no negative consequences” in my comment. Also the “unchangeable” in my comment. In general I guess you missed / conveniently ignored the whole point of my comment.
Homosexuality is not a temptation but a very real sexual orientation that causes no harm to anybody and should therefore not be opposed.
akatosh86@reddit
Patriarchal honor culture. Balkans are pretty much the only part of Europe were it persists. Not so much hatred of gays, but the thought of a man being penetrated by another men (or any object, for that matter - even colonoscopy lol) is deeply insulting in such circlejerk cultures. Source: I'm from the Caucasus, which has very similar attitudes
RewardOk2503@reddit
Yeah my dad refused to get a colonoscopy for that exact reason... ignorance.
Automatic_Tackle_406@reddit
I think you are right about the level of patriarchy being a huge factor, but I also think that is true for much of Eastern Europe.
Alhamdulliah514@reddit
Because LGBTQ is wrong and disgusting. Should not be promoted. It's a mental disorder and evil.. why should we have big parades for peoples sexual desires?? The West is the most Hypocritical place on the earth. U should be happy we align more with the eastern hemisphere.. the west only cares about money and lustful desires, they have zero shame. The east likes a simple life and doesn't promote and encourage mental illness
Alhamdulliah514@reddit
Because it's a filthy practice.
ScallionElectronic61@reddit
Portugal is also aligned with other slavic nations
Ujko_matan@reddit
I say when was only lgb it was ok but when they started to add whole alphabet i said first fuck off
Tykki_Mikk@reddit
People are afraid to admit that a majority of people in our countries (or at least mine) are just extremely desensitized and cruel , or at least accepting of cruelty. And reject anyone different, and different means not just gay or trans, but anyone from people who married somebody they don’t approve of to somebody who dyes their hair bring pink.
And this desensitization happens because of a complex variety of factors including history, how people grew up and even the poverty level. You cannot just blame it on one factor like “poverty” or “religion”(when certain countries in the region only care about religion on a performative level and half the people wouldn’t even be able to tell you what exactly is celebrated on Easter ) when in reality it is more complex. If it was a single factor affecting these things it would be easier to improve, but it’s not.
Every_Association45@reddit
Very thoughtful. You have a new follower!
Tykki_Mikk@reddit
Daww thank you. I am just a dumbass who posts on fandom subs. 90% of my thoughts aren’t deep nor coherent .
Every_Association45@reddit
Sounds like a brilliant mind I'll gladly follow and steal a gem here and there.
Infinity3101@reddit
Balkan countries treated left-handed people as pariahs up until recently (some still do). And would perform some kind of semi conversion therapy on left-handed kids by removing toys and crayons from their left hand and placing them into their right hand when they were toddlers. And if parents couldn't beat the left-handedness out of their kids in early childhood, then schools would do it. It happened to my mom. She had an awful hand-writing and pretty crappy motor skills all her life because she was thought to use her non-dominant hand from early childhood.
Humble__Narcissist@reddit
I’m sounds about right, I had the left handedness beat out of me, mom found the time for it somehow during the war lol.
Now I write like a left hander but with my right hand. Over the top smudging my hand with ink, instead of like a normal person lol
My cousin with a stutter same situation, whenever he would stutter would get a smack on the neck. Now he conflates stutter with pain, so no more stutter.
Substratas@reddit (OP)
Is this true? 🫢 I’m appalled because I have never witnessed such a thing.
jankeyass@reddit
Hah that happened to me as a kid. I can write in mirror with my left hand more legibly then my right hand
Tykki_Mikk@reddit
Omg that happened in my country too.
Also apparently being a child of divorced parents was a HUGE STIGMA. Like you were viewed as BROKEN by other people if your parents were divorced. Because it was that rare (nowadays all my friends had divorced parents and nobody cares) but I have an older relative and he had divorced parents, he was the only one in his group in school who had divorced parents and apparently it was always a problem, they even had his name written in a seperate section as a child of divorced parents because he might become problematic. Like what the actual F- about something you have 0 control over. And instead of helping him, they made him feel like some freak???
Timauris@reddit
This is a really clever answer.
Tykki_Mikk@reddit
Thank u 🩷
Substratas@reddit (OP)
What a masterpiece of a comment! 👏👏👏
Tykki_Mikk@reddit
I also forgot to write that you can see the country is more cruel and behind on empathy levels by looking at everything else - it’s not just people not being accepting of gay people that’s the problem , most people still don’t see a problem with domestic violence, abuse or neglect of children, mental abuse, mental health issues, rape is underreported, etc. it’s a whole myriad of issues.
testni_nalog@reddit
Truth. People absolutely dont give a shit unless its happening to them. This level of selfishness is itself cruel.
Tykki_Mikk@reddit
No like even if it’s happening to them they will think it’s normal or not bother to do anything. Like if my roommate were to marry somebody who hits her or mentally abuses her I bet she would just put up with it, or just yell at him and then think “well I yelled back at him so that’s why he hit me.” And if she tells her parents they would also be more supportive of her husband if he has his own property/car/good job , than of their own daughter. Subconsciously she would probably remember how her father also treated her mother or her badly and her how that’s how women should be treated, if she has children she will treat them in the same shitty way her parents treated her . I mean I bet even if you are in that situation in the Balkans most people don’t do anything because the next person they will meet will probably be similar, sometimes even their parents don’t stand up for them and calling the police 9/10 times doesn’t help.
testni_nalog@reddit
I dont get a sense people are always that passive here in Belgrade. I am sure you are right at least in some cases. But its absolutely true empathy for the other is lacking.
Pristine10887@reddit
Which country are you from?
Tykki_Mikk@reddit
I am not comfortable disclosing it online. But we are the most Balkan-ish Balkan people ever.
Vlacheslav@reddit
All balkan people think that about their country except maybe Romanians, Greeks and Hungarians. Of course the most balkan country in all regards is objectively NM
Substratas@reddit (OP)
I hear you, and I’ve noticed the exact same things & more, which is one of the reasons why I don’t like the Balkans in general. I live in one of the most socially progressive countries in the world now, and I’m so glad I bent over backwards to continue to stay here after graduating instead of going back to Albania. The collective sociopathy there is on another level.
Tykki_Mikk@reddit
I actually had the same chance but my health issues got in the way, and I told myself I will go back home for a few months till whatever is wrong calms down since I can’t really find a job as a waitress right now, i would have fainted- spoiler it got WORSE , new health stuff appeared, doctors here don’t know why and I should have bent over backwards to be a waitress or cleaner even if it meant fainting because I felt so fatigued i couldn’t stand up. I should have stayed abroad. But no im dumb and let’s go back to my parents they probably changed they sound ok on the phone (spoiler they haven’t changed they even treated me worse because I am not fully physically ok and getting depressed , and that pisses them off I guess)
Amazing you got out
testni_nalog@reddit
Harsh but true.
Quiet-Pressure4920@reddit
We're more aligned with middle east compared to Europe on many, many aspects, not just this one.
For a part of Europe that hates Islam so much, we sure are the most similar to them by far lol
ilijadwa@reddit
I second this
kaantechy@reddit
Don’t fully believe these “reports”
They often have an agenda and often missing key information.
Homosexuality existed in these parts of the world long before this was an issue.
National_Ad_6066@reddit
It was made an issue later on by people desperate to put everything in little boxes. Same with trans and so. There are plenty of examples around the world of non western cultures who acknowledged that sexuality isn't a binary thing. If being gay was a "thought" thing there wouldn't be any in societies that are homophobe.
kaantechy@reddit
Today’s issues started during cold war, western governments feared gay people in the important positions being blackmailed by the Soviets.
National_Ad_6066@reddit
Yeah they didn't have that issue at all with the straight 😎 Tbh it was already before that. Mostly these laws in Europe came into being in the 19th century. There was a wave of trying to restrict people's sexual behaviour because it wasn't "civilised". Yet behind closed doors perversities continued. When Dutch jenever was introduced in England under William III of Orange after the glorious revolution gin was created. Because it was cheaper than beer it became the drink of the working class created by the industrial revolution. Mothers would prostitute their children to get money for gin...
bananaguardbananad@reddit
That’s why being bisexual is a thing but nobody like to acknowledge that anywhere in the world
Stolac_@reddit
Because people are based that’s it. They don’t allow political correctness to run them over.
WaffleDonut22@reddit
Based in corruption, poverty and unhappiness. It’s not “political correctness” to treat innocent people who harm nobody equally.
nuclearactivatedidio@reddit
how about you stfu gay cunt
Existing-Network-267@reddit
Because it's disgusting.
If you were so open minded yourself you would try it realize it's disgusting and never do it again.
Maybe they have all tried and you are the bigot?
DeKolleesch68@reddit
wat? Man, nature did not give prostates to males for no reason. Homosexuality is 100% natural and many mammal species have gay comrades for example to fill up the adoption function.
nuclearactivatedidio@reddit
your a fucking retarted gay cunt
Substratas@reddit (OP)
I’m married to a man. Have a seat.
Existing-Network-267@reddit
Top 1% and Albanian , Albania so gay
cartophiled@reddit
You say it as if you've tried it before.
nuclearactivatedidio@reddit
its simple. homos should not be part of society. so we don't like them. our opinion is ours so cry about it.
WaffleDonut22@reddit
Literally nobody is crying about your homophobic hellholes. Your countries are corrupt, underdeveloped and unhappy, they are an example to be avoided, not followed.
OkRun880@reddit
Because the Middle East and Eastern Europe are less globalised regions that have kept more of their core, cultural and traditional indentites and values, for better or for worse. While the Western world has been for a while more globalised, which has watered down their indenties and values to a more global lense, adopting more secular, liberal, universal values but sacrificing there more traditional unique indenties, for better or for worse.
WaffleDonut22@reddit
It’s very clearly for worse, much worse, on this specific topic. There is a reason why the happiest, healthiest, least corrupt and most developed countries are almost all accepting of homosexuality. Iceland is one of the most homogenous countries in Europe and it’s still the most accepting.
Scared_Spinach_7688@reddit
"FoR bEtTeR oR fOr WoRsE" gtfo with your nationalist bullshit, you can have identity without being a homophobic pos. Oh, and fuck traditions (most of them) for making societies so fucking rigid, you can't do shit differently or every goddamn relative will side eye you for the rest of your life.
RegularPack6475@reddit
Because the LGBTQ community is a joke
CoachStev@reddit
Just like most of the things around here it can be explained by a single word: communism
3acid122@reddit
top 5-10 comments are saying how tragic it is then there's just a sea of downvoted comments under saying something atune to 'balkan not gay' oh how i love this place🤣🤣🤣🤣
Attack_na_battak@reddit
Why would we not? Who said that acceptance of homosexuallyti is the right thing? And if you mean by that to accept the promotion of homosexuality, why do they need to promote that? And why, if you promote heterosexuality, is it considered some kind of right wing, fascism or worse?
supremeaesthete@reddit
Homosexuality treated as a different culture, the sexual part merely being something that comes alongside
mihaylovich@reddit
It is basically whole of non Global west world. So the real world who depends on its own work and resources to survive. We recognize mental illness and reject it, it is needed to survive and things like dignity, honor, tradition, customs and family in the real world. All that west has forgotten about and is reliant on importing people from the same rest of the world to survive and has working force as their societies are basically going extinct and morally destroyed.
Dizzy-Item-9175@reddit
Religion indoctrination and poor education system
Personal_Country_497@reddit
Because it’s easier to focus on made up problems, than to work on the actual issues..
blowmyassie@reddit
What if it’s just like that and they don’t like differences as much as other cultures?
kyiv_star@reddit
deviant behaviour shall not be tolerated
gallantlike@reddit
Is that Kosovo or North Macedonia that is positive to homosexuality?
Tokeitawa@reddit
Country is mostly filled with boomers who were raised by traditional and religious values from their family. Said boomers teach that to their kids, and cycle repeats until one generation breaks that cycle.
Desperate-Care2192@reddit
I dont know, Yugoslavia, Albanina, Bulgarian and Romanian boomers had enormous brake in cycle after 1945. Like completely changed from the religious and many traditional values. But Balkan returned to the pre-WWII mentality in the 90s like the last 50 years didnt happened.
Now its true that religion or not, Balkan communists were not big fans of homosexuals either.
vbd71@reddit
In Bulgaria for example, during communism homosexuality was literally a prison-worthy crime, although tbh it was rarely enforced.
Desperate-Care2192@reddit
Yeah, it was like that in almost every communist country. You had usually sam law from 1950s about homosexuality that was almost never enforced. But there was also no demand to change it, because people were generally against homosexuality and because fighting for the rights of sexual minorities was not a priority for the class struggle oriented rulling parities.
Ill-Information901@reddit
What traditional and religious values were boomers raised by in SFRY lmfao people just be saying stuff
filbo132@reddit
I never understood why the same people who doesn't want the government to meddle in their life want the same government to meddle in 2 consenting adults on what they do in their own bedroom?
onewankortwo@reddit
The more patriarchal a society is, the more rigid everything will be, except for the only things that actually need to be solid, like justice, economy, infrastructure, etc.
EastNYCertified85@reddit
It’s not just the Balkans though, Poland is as well along with most of Eastern Europe.
Plastic_Exercise_695@reddit
Se fute bărbat cu bărbat maică /s
TvManiac5@reddit
A lot of it, at least based on my experience in Greece, has to do with the time the Balkans were under the control of the Turks.
In the face of losing their national identity, access to education and generally being treated as lesser, people turned to the Orthodox Christian Church for support. Churches became places of community, priests took over educating kids even in secret sometimes, and took the role of quasi leaders.
This had the result that when the Balkan wars happened and the Turks started to be pushed back, and various countries officially formed, the Chuch maintained its position of influence and thus power, basically entangling itself with governments. And because of that power, it has been very hard to move on from the church's influence even all this time later.
Many people's beliefs, are directly shaped by the church's teachings, and homophobia is a big part of that.
Hazard___7@reddit
The gayer someone is the more opposed they are to it. Projection. There's no reason to think about or be bothered by gays/trans/etc unless it affects you personally, and the only way it could possibly ever affect you is if you are that thing.
We're just really gay I guess.
Krasniqi857@reddit
nah you are alone on this one
I dont think it is for that reason in the balkans
AdelphicHitter4514@reddit
And arachnophobes are spiders
ByzantineCat0@reddit
Wat
Hazard___7@reddit
wat
ByzantineCat0@reddit
So the nazis were Jewish?
Hazard___7@reddit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_collaboration_with_Nazi_Germany
Substratas@reddit (OP)
Tea.
https://i.redd.it/3rpok73booif1.gif
Itsgxl@reddit
Don't blame this one on us too . Homosexuality was rampant AF in the Ottoman Empire to a point of Sultans writing poems for twinks.
PomegranateOk2600@reddit
Why don't you also ask why western Europe is so progressive and less aligned with Europe? Western Europe is not "THE Europe" so it isn't like we have to blindly follow or adopt everything they do
Substratas@reddit (OP)
Because I’m interested in the Balkans. You’re free to ask that.
We’re a stone throw away from Asia, we can’t simply act like we are ”the default Europeans”, especially in this day & age.
You sure want to adopt ’em 💰💰💰 though.
PomegranateOk2600@reddit
Average eastern european inferiority complex detected. Opinion rejected.
And they are a stone away from the Atlantic Ocean, and what? What point even is this... If the west are the default europeans, then consider me asian without a problem. Western society nowadays is the trash bin of the globe.
Ok, don't give me any help to catch up with you after you sold me to the russians, I'm fine going into the chinese sphere of influence. For sure in the chinese world, people don't wonder why they are not so "progressive". Also yes, make me an enemy because I will no longer be your buffer zone, but the buffer zone will move inside Germany, Italy, Denmark, and so on.
LargeFriend5861@reddit
Bro is delusional.
Literally what is so bad about the western societies?
PomegranateOk2600@reddit
The discussion is too long for a reply here. Only western society I like to sone extent is the french one, the rest are full of cowards and lambs
Far-Performance-412@reddit
Chinese people don’t have an issue with homosexuality to the extent every Balkan country does
Substratas@reddit (OP)
You could have gone for a shorter essay after rejecting my opinion.
Environmental-Sun291@reddit
While I don't condone anti-LGBTQ attitudes, this was well said.
DryLanguage5865@reddit
Cause their based 🗿🗿
IntelligentGur9638@reddit
As a western I do appreciate the more family oriented view of Balkans
HabemusAdDomino@reddit
It's because homosexuality is never justified.
LargeFriend5861@reddit
But why?
ConcentrateAgile125@reddit
That's literally the BEST thing about the Balkans, we are immune to the liberal propaganda and that us what will preserve our culture and peoples.
Dimitrije6500@reddit
Because we don't recognize your mental illnesses as normal?
NoPerspective9232@reddit
Because we recognize the normal as mental illness*
There, corrected that for you
Dimitrije6500@reddit
Nah, textbooks agree with me, but if we're going to be more precise, we don't recognize mental illness and hormonal issues as normal.
LargeFriend5861@reddit
Except, being homosexual isn't a mental illness, nor is it a hormonal issue. And even if it was... Why shouldn't we recognize it as being normal? Should we suddenly start beating up autistic people till they become "normal"? Should we stigmatize them all?
NoPerspective9232@reddit
The primary distinction between a mental illness and simply being different lies in the concept of impairment and distress. While being different refers to variations in personality, behavior, and thinking that are part of the natural spectrum of human experience, mental illness is a diagnosable condition that causes significant suffering and interferes with a person's ability to function in daily life.
Historically, the classification of homosexuality as a mental illness was not based on sound scientific research. It was rooted in a mix of moral, religious, and societal biases. Later, when actual, proper research went into it, homosexuality got reclassified from mental illness to a normal variation of human experience.
Just like being left-handed was stigmatized in the past, but now we realize it's just a simple, natural human thing, despite happening in a minority of people.
I'd like to point at the work of psychologist Evelyn Hooker in the 1950s. She conducted a groundbreaking study in which she administered a series of psychological tests to groups of gay and straight men, and then had a panel of experts evaluate the results without knowing the sexual orientation of the participants. The experts found no discernible differences in psychological well-being, adjustment, or stability between the two groups. This research provided strong evidence that homosexuality, in itself, was not a sign of pathology.
Psychiatrists realized that homosexuality, by itself, did not meet these criteria: - Many homosexual individuals were leading fulfilling, productive, and stable lives. Their sexual orientation was not an inherent cause of impairment. - Any distress, anxiety, or depression experienced by gay individuals was often a result of societal stigma, discrimination, and the pressure to hide their identity, not from their sexual orientation itself. The distress was external and social, not an internal issue with them.
The idea that homosexuality is a mental illness is no longer justifiable via scientific or clinical standards. And while hormonal imbalances do cause issues in the development of humans, there's no solid research or proof linking hormonal issues to homosexuality. Being gay isn't an endocrine defect.
Saxumsium@reddit
Could it be because we are muslims and orthodox christians?
Luctor-@reddit
Ottomans, Habsburg and Soviet Union. What more do you need to grind down a nation? Hungarians? 😂
redikan@reddit
-consilium-@reddit
The conservatism in the Balkans is mostly due to Orthodoxy and Islam. Being gay is a Protestant thing 😂
Got2InfoSec4MoneyLOL@reddit
Except for religious boomers and macho toxic (crypto-gay) "alphas", regular folk dont give a fuck.
Acceptance should increase as soon as gen-xers become irrelevant and boomers start dying.
Honestly at this time and age one must be a complete retard to be a homophobe.
Substratas@reddit (OP)
Agree. Compared to the rest of the Balkans, Greece is on another stage of social evolution.
WoodenInterest2643@reddit
Unfortunately younger generations at the moment seem to be making a whole 180 here in Greece.
There has been many cases of 14-16 year old teenagers chasing after queer people in their 24s+.
Undereducated and violent, listening to misogynistic trap garbage music and often involve themselves with drugs from a young age.
It's very sad to see.
Got2InfoSec4MoneyLOL@reddit
Yes, this is very unfortunate indeed.
PisicaIntergalactica@reddit
What a shame!
MdBlTheChadLord@reddit
Let me put it this way, a lot of our people are genuinely downright hateful.
I'm religious, I don't particularly care for certain things, however, I believe in the human right of self-expression, and I'm believe those people have a right to exist, living free, happy and healthy lives and experience the purest possible joy.
If one was my neighbor, or a close family member, of course I'd love them, who they date is only a small part of who they are, and even if I disagree with that, who am I to treat them as less than me and not love them with all my heart? Because we disagree I SHOULD LOVE THEM MORE IN FACT!
Unfortunately, people here are taught to hate others on the basis of, where they're from, who they date, WHAT VILLAGE THEIR FAMILY HAILS FROM, how they dress, what their hair is like, their political belief... etc.
It's hateful propaganda shoved down the throats of generations of balkanites that caused what we are now.
GoodZealousideal5922@reddit
Well, here in Albania we joke that we are always 45 years behind the rest of Europe because the communist regime kept us in the dark for that long. People are still not educated and they hate because they have been taught to hate. Also we are far more patriarchal than most of Europe still and most people associate any man being feminine as “weak” and “dishonorable”. I wouldn’t even say that it is a religious issue as most Albanians are lukewarm believers at best.
vbd71@reddit
South Korea frankly surprises me.
basedfinger@reddit
Korea is actually a deeply conservative and sexist society.
Substratas@reddit (OP)
Why? Older South Koreans are very homophobic.
Cultural-Diet6933@reddit
w
basedfinger@reddit
go back to tiktok
Only-Dimension-4424@reddit
Turkish influence which changed your nature and character
Big_Delay_3458@reddit
Ottomans were way more accepting of queer people compared to the rest of Europe. Current gov of Turkey is literally more homophobic than Ottomans 💀
basedfinger@reddit
can we stop perpetuating this myth? the whole reason why the ottomans decriminalised homosexuality wasn't because they were progressive and cared about the queer community, but because the ottoman elite liked sleeping around with teenage boys.
Only-Dimension-4424@reddit
🤣Queer people? This term belong this century
Kaamos_666@reddit
This term was derived in this century. But retrospectively they was always so. Queer means anything that deviates from straight cis gender. And these existed as long as humanity did. When we say “proletariat” for 17th century workers, you can’t say “the term was invented in 19th century”.
Substratas@reddit (OP)
Not really. Homosexuality was legal in the Ottoman Empire & illegal in rest of Europe. Ali Pashe Tepelena & Lord Byron shared many hot moments together.
vbd71@reddit
WHAAAT??? OMFG.
Substratas@reddit (OP)
Girl yessss. The tea about them is pippin’ hot.
https://i.redd.it/u9yk05ytcqif1.gif
Only-Dimension-4424@reddit
I said Turkish ! Not ottoman! They were long time ago!
Substratas@reddit (OP)
Aren’t Turkish people the successors of the Ottomans?
Only-Dimension-4424@reddit
We are ...
Kejo2023@reddit
The Soviet Block was very anti-gay too just like all the other Communist states. The issue is much more complex and layered.
AdelphicHitter4514@reddit
Why wouldn't they be? It's normal. Westerners are the odd ones.
Substratas@reddit (OP)
Well, thankfully most people aren't living in the '70s anymore. :)
Tykki_Mikk@reddit
I think being left handed was also categorized as a mental disorder yk…or being able to read as a women in the middle ages
NecroVecro@reddit
Women not having rights or being abused also was normal at some point.
Slavery was also considered normal in many nations not that long ago.
Substratas@reddit (OP)
Sure.
AdelphicHitter4514@reddit
Until the 1970s homosexuality was scientifically categorized as a mental disorder in the DSM.
rimtaph@reddit
Because we like big women butts and can not lie. And because we like to build a family and spend time with our kids. And also continue our generation
Substratas@reddit (OP)
This logic is the equivalent of ”I’m attracted to blonde women and I want to have many children with blond hair in the future. That’s why I hate brunettes.”
Also, Balkan dads wanting to spend time with their kids is the lie of the century.
tejanaqkilica@reddit
It's not. But it's incredibly difficult to spend quality time with your kid when you have to work 7 days a week because we're from a poor region of the world
Tykki_Mikk@reddit
You could write down their birthdays on your phone or a piece of paper. Spending physical time might not be possible, but making an effort to remember shit about your children and wife is possible. Or leaving a sticky note with I love you that takes half a minute to make or some cheesy shit. Which Balkan men (and even women) often don’t do. If you can’t give them your time and presence, give them something else. But you need to actually be considerate of your family and think about those things. Also most men who claim they don’t have time to spend with their children or wives often have time to go go the local pub or even park to get drunk with buddies .
Substratas@reddit (OP)
You mean drinking coffee, beer & watching football with friends 24/7?
Tykki_Mikk@reddit
By spend time you mean
•Wife (working or not working) does all the work and bonding with the children, while man works more and then calls wife and children ungrateful brats whenever they argue because he works the most and is the “man” of the house. Doesn’t talk to his children much besides asking them to give him some tool while he works or to remember to buy X.
•Doesn’t even remember the birthdays of his children. Or other important shit about his children.
•Spending time together equals the man sitting infront the TV in the evening after work and the children being nearby. They barely say anything. Or only the man talks and comments on TV stuff and gets agitated and even angry whenever the children oppose his viewpoint + bonus points if the man is drinking
•Going on a family vacation where again the wife is mostly talking to the children or bonding while the man rests or drinks, then if there is an argument again the man calls everyone ungrateful since he is the sole reason in the universe why they get to have this nice holiday.
•Spend time with children my ass. You just wanna fuck and procreate because that’s what society has drilled into your head as an expectation and both men and women here are too afraid of society and familiar rejection to question it. That’s why you have so many shitty families, because people who never wanted to become parents become parents out of pressure. Deep down they never wanted children and even secretly dislike their children but try to play the part society or their family expects from them, but when they drink or get angry enough the mask falls.
EriDoes@reddit
Media, online social networks and other things in that ball park are a strong reason in itself. The common man or woman goes to work and does not really have the time to purposefully see if what is presented to him/her in tv or social media networks as legitimate. If you see how people who associate with homosexuality, and/or in that ballpark, dress up like animals, you not gonna like it, even if you know that is supposedly a perverse presentation of what it really is.
Also the topic is rarely black and white except when violence is commited. Let's be fair. We find it stupid/wrong how older generation keep voting/supporting already proven corrupts politicians or nationalistic views, like they were football clubs, yet we do the same with newer ideologies. Women suporting feminism only bc they are woman is the same as an albanian suporting Albania bc they are albanians. A native american supporting a native american only because of their ethnicity is also the same.
A good and strong reason is also the proximity of homosexuality towards illegal and morally not good things even indirectly. Drugs and all the problems that come from them. They are closer to that than the supposedly family man.
This topic is actually sp large and can be targeted in so many angles to be honest.
IvaCoMne@reddit
Same reason why there is also a concerning number of femicide. Patriarchy.
Ok-Demand8957@reddit
Well at my country is worse than anything in the Balkans. Georgia is the most homophobic Christian and Europe. So no worry. You aren't alone Balkaners
Substratas@reddit (OP)
You mean drinking coffee, beer & watching football with friends 24/7? Well, yes.
Double-Aide-6711@reddit
Rooted in a destructive patriarchal machismo for generations, those who talk about religious dogma are mistaken. It's an excuse not to see the real problem. The least religious places are sometimes even more inclined to be homophobic than others outright
Automatic_Tackle_406@reddit
Yes, it’s about the “sanctity” of the masculine ideal and hatred for anything that is perceived as a threat.
Demografija_prozora@reddit
Because we can think for ourselves and see what they are shoving us with
Tramagust@reddit
It's more about what the question is and how you ask the question in the balkans than what the answer is. Westerners will never comprehend this.
personal_hazard86@reddit
Because times are tough for everyone and people don’t have the luxury to brainstorm about unimportant subjects.
PuzzleheadedWeight18@reddit
Idk, on paper it is conservative but I am also under impression that surprising amount of our movies often fetishize romance between two men (either that or just plain mockery).
Also we are more aligned with Middle East in way more than conservatism, such as music and food (lot adapted from Turks who adapted from old Arabs). If anything in reality Balkans is still way more open, you wouldn't even see media covering anything LGBT in Arab league countries.
Red_Lola_@reddit
Ultranationalism which promotes exclusivity
Exotic-Advantage7329@reddit
I have an answer… It start’s with R and it’s about ancient books.
Inkvirent@reddit
I was raised during the 2000s playing Halo 3 and MW2, and I also grew up during the War on Terror, I am suddenly expected to be tolerant towards gays and foreign workers now… lmao
JimbosBalls@reddit
https://i.redd.it/2yhv1l9wlqif1.gif
Diligent_Tomato_147@reddit
We got to be good at something as a region at least!
Substratas@reddit (OP)
Bajram Curri tease.
Inkvirent@reddit
I was raised in the 2000s bro, you can’t expect from me to suddenly become tolerant towards such things (or towards brown foreign workers when I grew up during the War on Terror lmao)
ljukomir@reddit
Because its the right way,homosexuality happens when part of your brain enjoined for emotions doesnt work properly.When other parts of the brain dont work properly,we call that a mental sickness or a disability.Why should we cherish and support this one?
RennietheAquarian@reddit
Probably religion?
Open-Gur-3189@reddit
We are traditional
Irvineballot65@reddit
More you welcome religion, more intolerant you are to other people
best_decision123@reddit
I disagree. I’ve never seen a gay guy being mistreated for who he is in my home country and I’m from the heart of the Balkans. As long as you respect the law, pay your taxes and behave like a normal human being, no one has a problem with anyone. We’re generally tolerant, as a matter of fact, it’s just that the vast majority simply don’t like bragging.
1Gothian1@reddit
I mean, "protecting from the gays" is a political promise during election, rather than fixing a serious problem.
Well that and "getting Delyan Peevski out of politics" then magically reinstating him.
Puzzleheaded_Sir903@reddit
I think the question was strange. "When homosexuality is justified?"
People might think the question was about straight people engaging in homosexual acts. (In prison, in navy)
The answer would be never.
technotronica@reddit
Bullshit map. The question is non-sensical as well. What is meant by "justified"? By whom? It's like asking, "is it justified to be left handed?". Makes no sense.
SydSara@reddit
My very simplistic assumption would be strong religious ties, though, that is no to say every religious person is homophobic.
Most of my interactions with Balkan communities is diaspora groups in and around Sydney. There does seem to be a deep conservatism based particularly in anti-communism (Because...gestures generally). I wonder if it's tied to paranoia over "cultural Marxism".
kirdan84@reddit
I think its how much population is religious overall. And traditional influence of religious leaders even for those which do not go to the temples often.
PasicT@reddit
As conservative as we are, we are still lightyears ahead of most of the Middle East when it comes to progressive values.
znobrizzo@reddit
Influence of the Orthodox Church.
hamsterinna@reddit
Church has a strong influence, still lots of uneducated people, peer pressure
Maximus_Dominus@reddit
The LGBT activists and NGOs have a lot less money and influence.
East-Raccoon135@reddit
I don't know but I hate it! And I hate the racism too.
Substratas@reddit (OP)
You hate homosexuality? Why?
Ok_Hamster_1690@reddit
No saying they hate racism, so they also hate homophobia
Substratas@reddit (OP)
East-Raccoon135@reddit
No… I hate that the balkans are homophonic
Substratas@reddit (OP)
Substratas@reddit (OP)
You hate homosexuality? Why?
Substratas@reddit (OP)
So is Spain.