Daewoo M16A1. S.Korea produced 1 million M16s under license from COLT, but for some reason, COLT sued Daewoo. Currently, the rifle is classified war reserve stock.

[-]

CarlTJexican@reddit

"but for some reason" yeah over producing on your contract and selling them is the reason.

[-]

Taolan13@reddit

I can't find anything about the lawsuit being colt vs daewoo, but if I had to hazard a guess the lawsuit probably has to do with Daewoo changing something in the design.

For example, if they had a contract to produce burst-fire rifles but produced automatics instead.

[-]

Entire_Judge_2988@reddit (OP)

That's not. When Korea produced the M16A1, there was no 3-round burst.

I think.. COLT was in financial trouble and I think they thought they could make money by blackmailing Korea like Saul Goodman. and seeing as they went bankrupt, it seems like the plan failed.

[-]

Chllep@reddit

i found a US General Accountings Office document dated 1988, apparently they made more than specified in the agreement and sold them to 3rd parties without authorization

[-]

This tracks with what I learned in the Korean military, the Korean government in early Cold War felt that licenses from American MIC generally were too restrictive and limited to outdated weaponry, given that North Koreans seemed to have been receiving top of the line weaponry from the Soviets, causing the South Korean dictatorship to panic.

The Korean government failed to get a better deal with American manufacturers (and likely forced Daewoo to breach its licensing agreement with Colt to make up for its arms deficiency against NK), while SK started heavily pushing to create its own domestic MIC, leading to decent results such as the K-2 rifle in the 70s (a mix of AKM and M16 designs) and well regarded K-2 tanks and K-9 SPGs recently. I do hate how every Korean military equipment starts with a K though…

[-]

lukro_@reddit

i do agree that it's kinda weird that everything despite unrelated starts with a K but you can't lie the K2 Black Panther as a whole is just a badass name

[-]

Entire_Judge_2988@reddit (OP)

Hmm... I see.

Anyway, it's funny how both Colt and Daewoo went bankrupt.

[-]

DatOne8BitCharacter@reddit

I am sorry, say that again? Tf you mean Colt and Daewoo went bankrupt?

[-]

Revolutionary-Wash88@reddit

Y'know bankruptcy is just a tactic to avoid paying debts and taxes and stuffed

[-]

Taolan13@reddit

Ah. That'd do it.

[-]

Taolan13@reddit

m16a1e1 was the earliest burst fire pattern, and was produced during the agreement between colt and daewoo.

[-]

Enzopastrana2003@reddit

Tried looking into it and the first thing that appeared was the damn Google AI using your comment as source

[-]

FrankSinatraCockRock@reddit

reminds me of this lol

[-]

Pratt_@reddit

Lmao

[-]

Taolan13@reddit

Further proof the intelligence is artificial, lol

[-]

mlin1911@reddit

AI cannot replace human intelligence 100%. I doubt it will ever be. In every aspect of the human society, there are more to do with just hard cold data for the analysis. It is only good as how much data it can scrubs from whoever feed it. If massive junk data are all over net, the AI will come up with junk info. Imaging one day all those CEO supported AI take over will be rely on all droid workforce that screw up our society.

[-]

qwertyalguien@reddit

Daewoo was a VERY sketchy company overall

[-]

walt-and-co@reddit

My guess would be that Daewoo were selling the M16A1s commercially to customers other than the ROK Military, which would violate the terms of the contract. When Colt arranged production licences the terms were usually very restrictive to prevent the licensee from competing with Colt.

[-]

amazinghadenMM@reddit

I love Korean equipment and have done a clone from a custom engraved 80% A1 clone lower.

pics

Some interesting things to note is that while being an M16A1, the dust cover is an A2 and is not from refurbishment as I have pics going back to the 80-90s showing it.

The forward assist is completely unique, it’s akin to the old round style, but conical and stepped versus grooved. I had mine custom made by a machinist.

Besides the receiver, couple other English to Korea replacements are -Rear sight -front sight post -upper receiver (R is changed to 우)

[-]

MlackBesa@reddit

Hello based department?

Awesome job man, I love clones!

[-]

wyvern1_6@reddit

Hmmm..I do believe the Elisco manufactured Model 613P and 653P here in the Philippines have similar forward assists. Maybe Colt provided the same TDP to Daewoo and Elisco?

[-]

PeaceThruFirepower@reddit

Colt TDPs went to Daewoo for the 603K, Elisco Tool for the Philippine 613P production, and Chartered Industries Singapore for their 614S guns. They had some variations across the various countries. Of note, the Singapore guns had no forward assist. Their markings were also different than the pattern used in Korea and the Philippines.

The conical assist plunger was one design tried after the teardrop shape but abandoned for the large round button, which in turn was superseded by the smaller round button.

[-]

wyvern1_6@reddit

Ah thanks for that information! I recall seeing a Singaporean M16S in Mindanao at a Philippine Army training base back in the late 1980’s. And it didn’t have a forward assist as you described. I always wondered how that rifle made it from Singapore to Mindanao, but it was remarkably rare seeing one amongst Colt and Elisco made M16A1 rifles. Other rare guns I spotted was a Hydramatic built M16 rand a Colt with AR-15 Model 603 markings (high 4 million S/N).

[-]

SLN583@reddit

Very cool about the forward assist. 👍

[-]

MlackBesa@reddit

Oh man, that nice little stack of rifles is so neatly packed away

[-]

BtheBro@reddit

Extremely weird that colt sued daewoo over this but not the philippines despite them both producng the same model (Colt 613P and Colt 613K). Was this a case of colt being momey hungry or is there a deeper reason.

[-]

Brown_Colibri_705@reddit

Those modernized A1s are quite something

[-]

LedyardWS@reddit

There are a lot of things that go hard on a carry handle mount, but I'm not sure the eotech is one of em

[-]

Roland_was_a_warrior@reddit

You are wrong, sir. That is peak lightfighter.

[-]

LedyardWS@reddit

Do you think his mount lets him use the irons still? In that case...

[-]

Roland_was_a_warrior@reddit

I think so, yes. No EMP gonna catch him napping.

[-]

Vercengetorex@reddit

EMPs do not work that way. Battery powered shielded electronics will not be affected.

[-]

Roland_was_a_warrior@reddit

Yes, I know. But the joke doesn’t work otherwise.

[-]

Vercengetorex@reddit

Sorry, lotta folks out there seem to think COD was a documentary.

[-]

beagleprime@reddit

We’re almost back there with all the high rise mounts

[-]

LedyardWS@reddit

Yeah, I dont like those either tbh, but I've never used one

[-]

TheRealPaladin@reddit

They are also pointless. Rifles are among the cheapest weapons purchased by modern armies. These days, upgrading existing rifles doesn't make much since when M4's are dirt cheap.

[-]

Pratt_@reddit

They work, they are put in war time stockpiles, what's pointless in that ?

How spending money to dispose of a perfectly working gun and having to spend more money on more guns when war is declared is less pointless than just keeping them ?

And why the Korean military would buy M4 when they are already using and producing K2 since the 80s lol.

And the NGSW program seems to be contradicting the whole "buying new rifles is cheap" aspect of this.

[-]

Brown_Colibri_705@reddit

I'd wager that new M4s are still pricier than existing A1s.

[-]

Entire_Judge_2988@reddit (OP)

Hmm... It seems like it costs money to dispose of guns. So I guess they just keep using them.

Korea could dump a million guns in Africa or the Middle East like Nick Cage, but something terrible would happen.

[-]

ranoverpenny@reddit

They are used for reservist training since they have shot out barrels anyway, and the reservists don't take care of them at all while they are assigned out. I have seen some of them drag them on the ground by the sling, throw them into the dirt, and just general mistreatments.

[-]

thePonchoKnowsAll@reddit

Its all incredibly likely that whoever was in charge of the modernized a1s wasn't authorized to buy new weapons of any sort as thats usually a fairly high level approval to get. But they had the ability to get the modernized parts for it.

Plus in a beauracracy it could easily just have been the cheaper option be even $20 and the cheaper option gets approved.

[-]

amazinghadenMM@reddit

I believe it was a test proposal tied in with the Warrior Program to evaluate potential in using M16A1s for reserve use, as at this point they have been completely pushed out by K2s (besides like for the boomer reserve) in the late 2010s.

[-]

CadeSadow@reddit

Knew a guy at work that qualified with one due to his daewoo’s folding stock was broke

[-]

bobbobersin@reddit

Anyone have a list to make a clone of image 7?

[-]

That_Somewhere_4593@reddit

Rare as it is, I'd still prefer a K1 or K2

[-]

Papashvilli@reddit

IIRC from a conversation with someone who was stationed there for a long time - Daewoo made changes to the rifle to fit the smaller average stature of SK soldiers. Those changes would have put them in violation of the contract. Is that true? I really can’t say, but it it does make sense.

[-]

TacTurtle@reddit

When is PSA making a repro lower of these?

[-]

Grouchy-Fennel4436@reddit

https://badattitudedept.com/low-key-tribute-lower-korean-m16a1-ar15-receiver/ ere ya go

[-]

amazinghadenMM@reddit

Something to note for potential cloners, the BAD ones are A2 cut.

[-]

SLN583@reddit

BAD makes an A1 version

https://badattitudedept.com/ar15-a1-lower-receiver-korean-m16a1/

[-]

amazinghadenMM@reddit

Oh what the hell, based af. Gonna pick up another when they’re back in stock. Getting the 80% made costed me $300+, I was interested in another to make an unholy Korean retro 9mm AR.

[-]

TacTurtle@reddit

Yep, wrong cut to clone.

[-]

Grouchy-Fennel4436@reddit

Awh. Man.

[-]

Flabbergasted_____@reddit

2 weeks.

[-]

PeaceThruFirepower@reddit

Colt worked with the DoD to license these as part of Asian foreign military sales deals that called for local production. Daewoo ran Korean production on behalf of the ROK. The other deals were with the Phillipines (Elisco Tool mfg.) and Singapore (Chartered Industries). Daewoo got caught producing in excess of the initially licensed quantity as the ROK requirements grew, which triggered additional licensing fees.

[-]

Not everyone is an expert such as yourself; be considerate.

No Spam. No Memes.

No political posts. Save that for /r/progun or /r/politics.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.